Guild Wars 2

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Keep going. Keep going. We want a game that is fun, not “grind x”, “farm y”, “zerg z”

Except that’s what people have been asking for…. so apparently that is what they want. Maaaaybe not you or me specifically, but obviously we aren’t loud enough to offset those crying for those things.

I would think casual players are ok with that, because they don’t play the game for hours. But people who do and have acquired some skill in a certain area of the game, albeit combat or jumping puzzles, feel the need for using that skill, not being forced into mindless action.

I’m going to try not to be offended by that, because I realize it’s not intended that way.

Both ‘casual’ and ‘hardcore’ players enjoy zerging. There are people that play 8+ hours a day and only do the zerg runs because that’s what they enjoy.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy dungeons.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy jumping puzzles.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy the LS, or aspects of the LS.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy WvW.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy spvp.

Some casuals are ‘skilled players’ as well, and the only reason they are deemed ‘casual’ is because they have lives outside the game and can’t play it like nothing else matters anymore.

Not everyone will like everything, it’s why we have options. It’s like going out to eat, your favorite restaurant offers a variety of drinks, appetizers, main courses, and deserts to appeal to a greater selection of people. GW2 is similar – it tries to offer a variety of activities in order to appeal to the greatest potential demographic. Their attempt to appeal to a variety of tastes isn’t perfect, the chef still needs to refine some of his recipes, but not every new item is going to be a smashing hit. Or maybe it is, but it’s still not to person ’x’s particular taste. So look at it the same way you tell your kids to look at it – try it, if you don’t like it, order something else; however you won’t know if you don’t like it if you don’t give it a chance.

Well wait: I didn’t mean hardcore <→ casual in a means of “playing a lot”. But I’m going to have to say that people with skill (<→ without skill) won’t have a problem with mindless zerging. I’m aware that a lot of “hardcore” both as “casual” players are zerging and doing other mindless activities…

The distinction I tried to make was maybe one more between players dedicated to ‘organised forms of the game that require you to use your mind’ (in that way more hardcore) and players who do not do this (more casual, more ‘newb level’, easymode, facerolling the keyboard).

I have a great respect for people in PvE who are running arah and high level fractals, because those people are actually doing something that requires some skill and team work. Similarly small scale WvW players need to have some degree of skill.
I would call those hardcore, opposite to the champion zergs (in PvE) and the blobs (in WvW), those last are casual.

Point being: those last, ruin the game for the more serious people, by farming gold and ‘showing’ how good they are by running around with prestige items like legendaries. It saddens me to see that.

Galen Grey.4709:

Sirendor.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Galen Grey.4709:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Keep going. Keep going. We want a game that is fun, not “grind x”, “farm y”, “zerg z”

Except that’s what people have been asking for…. so apparently that is what they want. Maaaaybe not you or me specifically, but obviously we aren’t loud enough to offset those crying for those things.

We actually got a game that applies to both our groups but you have to be willing to choose what you love playing rather then whats more profitable.

Quoted for truth. People who must play the most efficient way are gimping their own enjoyment. Play the most fun way, and don’t worry about rewards.

Playing the most fun way does sadly also mean you miss out on some content.

Like what exactly? Cause I do think I play the fun way and I dont think I missed any content since launch!

Not everyone enjoys zerging. Things I like are jumping puzzles and WvW small scale. Those are also the least rewarding parts of the game, which makes me lose out on a number of things (I could probs note others but those are the worst):

• New weapon/armour skins
• Ascended

RedCobra.7693:

Arthos Ravron.3796:

RedCobra.7693:

Not too keen on [HT] coming in and recruiting members from FoW, they seem to have been welcomed with open arms, TSOC has had a lot of critisicm recently aswell for being “squishy” well this comes from the majority of the guild, but i can assure you there are some dedicated players in this guild that originally wanted to WvW from the start, something will be done about this but please no hating :C

RedC

Oh, come on, Red. You guys usually make up for it with a bit more skill.

sure but we’ve been forced into this, all we originally wanted to do was have a guild like [JD] xD oh the pain, we started tanking out a bit more to be more useful in zerg fights but then came across [imp] as we were roaming, a full CC zerk small roam guild oh jesus, its time for a change thats all.

They’re not zerk. They’re just pro havoc and they kick kitten .

Just going to post this here:

I have a few suggestions for making WvW a truly competitive element of the game:

[SUGGESTION]
Seperate WvW from PvE:

• Delete all PvE gear in WvW:
  - One armour tier, and the choice of one free starter set [PER CHAR] of the stats you want. Gain new stats through playing WvW (badges).
  - One weapon tier, and the choice of up to 4 free starter weapons [PER CHAR] of the stats you want. Gain new stats through player WvW (badges).
  - Runes and sigils: ‘unlock’ through badges (one-time buy, eternal use after).

• Skills and traits: Accessible for free.

• Uplevels and max levels:
  - Make everyone the same level and strength (no difference between uplevel and level 80).
  - Everyone has same stat tier available from the start.

• Armour and weapon skins:
  - All the armour skins you have in PvE can be stored in WvW locker and collected for a small fee (comparable to trait refunds).
  - Any new skins can also be unlocked through badges if you don’t have them in PvE.
  - Skins are account-bound, not soul-bound and available for unlimited use after unlocking.

[SOLUTION]
1- Ascended gear: don’t bother about it anymore.
2- Alt-friendly.
3- Still provides a goal, but disables power creep.
4- Balance between players.
5- Class balance in WvW is now split off from PvE and can be monitored more easily.

Just going to post this here:

I have a few suggestions for making WvW a truly competitive element of the game:

[SUGGESTION]
Seperate WvW from PvE:

• Delete all PvE gear in WvW:
  - One armour tier, and the choice of one free starter set [PER CHAR] of the stats you want. Gain new stats through playing WvW (badges).
  - One weapon tier, and the choice of up to 4 free starter weapons [PER CHAR] of the stats you want. Gain new stats through player WvW (badges).
  - Runes and sigils: ‘unlock’ through badges (one-time buy, eternal use after).

• Skills and traits: Accessible for free.

• Uplevels and max levels:
  - Make everyone the same level and strength (no difference between uplevel and level 80).
  - Everyone has same stat tier available from the start.

• Armour and weapon skins:
  - All the armour skins you have in PvE can be stored in WvW locker and collected for a small fee (comparable to trait refunds).
  - Any new skins can also be unlocked through badges if you don’t have them in PvE.
  - Skins are account-bound, not soul-bound and available for unlimited use after unlocking.

[SOLUTION]
1- Ascended gear: don’t bother about it anymore.
2- Alt-friendly.
3- Still provides a goal, but disables power creep.
4- Balance between players.
5- Class balance in WvW is now split off from PvE and can be monitored more easily.

insanemaniac.2456:

defending doesnt need nerfs, attacking does -.-
its too easy to ninja thanks to ram mastery. its too easy to overwhelm with numbers thanks to omega dupes.

the rest of your suggestions are mostly good.

Not sure. Me and a mate captured Garrison yesterday with 2 omega golems. We’re definitely not zerging, and if they nerfed attacking, we wouldn’t be able to do this kind of thing. On the other hand if they nerf defending, that’s also bad for small groups, because we often use arrow carts, ballistas and catapults to destroy zergs.

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Any kind of direct buff to combat is just never going to work. The way to get people involved in WvW is to make it easier for them to access community forums and teamspeak, beginner-friendly wvw-guilds, some decent guides/videos explaining gameplay/builds etc.

If you give a buff, you give it to everyone, which as I’ve explained, doesn’t help newbies at all.

While I understand your point i’m afraid I have to disagree, while I recognize that clearly adding any skills to the game will allow any person to buy them it’s important to keep in mind that perception and motivation are powerful factors to consider. Experienced players are already confident in there abilities whereas newer players are not. I feel that this or at least something in a similiar direct could really enable newer players to dive into WvW. At that point forward I agree it would be best to get them to log into ts and forums and such, but players will never use those resources without first being confident and feeling enabled.

How are new players going to feel enabled when they’re getting rolled over 20vs100 buy an immortal hardcore guild that can never die because they have massive buffs to downed-state?

Most of the time the organised guilds are <20 and they face 2 or 3 times their numbers of unorganised players with success. This is normal, that’s what they trained for.

gladiator.5367:

Curo.2483:

- snip -

Your post really speaks to me. When I was starting out, I tried wvw so many times and failed so hard. I really do love pvp, but I bought GW2 because I wanted to be a little more causal in my gameplay, especially that I work two jobs now and dont’ have the playtime I once had. I tried to wvw so many times initially only to quit several times just because of frustration. I could not figure out how to jump off that cliff without dieing. It took me a while, but I figured it out. I agree that some training wheels need to be in place so that people won’t get frustrated and just quit…and quit..and quit. More newb friendliness in WvW means a higher population of people, more coverage, more even fights. Everyone wins!

My suggestion: find a group of friends who know what they’re doing and tag along with them. In the beginning you don’t have to go doing spectacular kills or anything and you shouldn’t expect to either. I think for the first 3 months I played WvW (from start of the game till around October-November), I always just ran along with a small group of people and the amount of things I learned there is amazing and I still regularly use them.

You don’t want to be a top player in WvW from the first day and that’s totally impossible aswell. I think I didn’t kill any player single-handedly the first month and maybe killed a few the next months. At this moment, I kill whoever I want, and I take on 2v1 or 3v1 regularly. When in a group it’s often 5 v 10 or more.

The main thing you have to keep in mind is that you can’t expect to be a top player from day one, but if you want to become one, you have to show some respect toward players who are better and more experienced AND you have to learn from them, by asking questions and by running with them.

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Any kind of direct buff to combat is just never going to work. The way to get people involved in WvW is to make it easier for them to access community forums and teamspeak, beginner-friendly wvw-guilds, some decent guides/videos explaining gameplay/builds etc.

If you give a buff, you give it to everyone, which as I’ve explained, doesn’t help newbies at all.

I agree. But there are a lot of guilds who are willing to take people under their wings for WvW and show them something else than blobbing. You just need to look for them.

Dinamin.7083:

I used to think that I could not go on
And life was nothing but an awful blob-song
But now I know the meaning of true love of blobing
I’m leaning on the everlasting arms of AAAAMMMM

If I can see it, then I can do it
If I just believe it, there’s nothing to hide

I believe I can kill
I believe I can touch the lootbags
I think about it every night and day
Spread my zergling and fly away with my lootbags
I believe I can sing
I see me running through that open door
I believe I can fly
I believe I can fly
I believe I can fly

Looks at screen disbelievingly
Shakes head
Looks closer and closer
Ponder

Funny that :P

Haha, got to love those thieves. ^^

Draygo.9473:

Took me a while to find this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Please-let-there-be-most-improved/first#post2755161
It is possible that their might be other types of rewards instead of just winning your league.

Oh that’s actually nice. Lets hope Devon keeps the promise. :P

It isn’t free anymore, 500 gems cost. I don’t know about about the meta-achievement, I’m sorry.

gladiator.5367:

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

Omne.4603:

Yaro.3251:

Omne.4603:

I get what your saying about the process to becoming a veteran in WvW, but you can’t make those kinds of assumptions about what he’s saying.

I’m not sure which assumptions do you mean. Care to elaborate?

Omne.4603:

The responses seem typical so far, i’m wrong because of insert some subjective reasoning here. All the while no one seems to have a serious response, criticism or suggestion to my initial post. Pretty disappointing, but I guess this is to be expected.

It would help if you’d explain what is subjective and why exactly you are dismissing comments coming from WvWers and calling them not serious.

Why are you getting so defensive?

Pot meet kettle.

How has OP been defensive? He’s just asking for a coherent, reasonable, objective argument against his post. I think he’s entitled to it.

… the OP said “Why are you getting so defensive?” because he doesn’t have any arguments anymore. Open your eyes.

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

Omne.4603:

Yaro.3251:

Omne.4603:

I get what your saying about the process to becoming a veteran in WvW, but you can’t make those kinds of assumptions about what he’s saying.

I’m not sure which assumptions do you mean. Care to elaborate?

Omne.4603:

The responses seem typical so far, i’m wrong because of insert some subjective reasoning here. All the while no one seems to have a serious response, criticism or suggestion to my initial post. Pretty disappointing, but I guess this is to be expected.

It would help if you’d explain what is subjective and why exactly you are dismissing comments coming from WvWers and calling them not serious.

Why are you getting so defensive?

Pot meet kettle.

Kettle [Nay-Say] definitely right.

I have a few suggestions for making WvW a truly competitive element of the game:

[SUGGESTION]
Seperate WvW from PvE:

• Delete all PvE gear in WvW:
  - One armour tier, and the choice of one free starter set [PER CHAR] of the stats you want. Gain new stats through playing WvW (badges).
  - One weapon tier, and the choice of up to 4 free starter weapons [PER CHAR] of the stats you want. Gain new stats through player WvW (badges).
  - Runes and sigils: ‘unlock’ through badges (one-time buy, eternal use after).

• Skills and traits: Accessible for free.

• Uplevels and max levels:
  - Make everyone the same level and strength (no difference between uplevel and level 80).
  - Everyone has same stat tier available from the start.

• Armour and weapon skins:
  - All the armour skins you have in PvE can be stored in WvW locker and collected for a small fee (comparable to trait refunds).
  - Any new skins can also be unlocked through badges if you don’t have them in PvE.
  - Skins are account-bound, not soul-bound and available for unlimited use after unlocking.

[SOLUTION]
1- Ascended gear: don’t bother about it anymore.
2- Alt-friendly.
3- Still provides a goal, but disables power creep.
4- Balance between players.
5- Class balance in WvW is now split off from PvE and can be monitored more easily.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The main argument is that when you take two equally skilled players, using the same profession and race combination, that Ascended gear will guarantee a victory over the non-Ascended gear opponent. One major flaw to this is that equally skilled players fighting one on one, using the same profession and race, is unique. You cannot use this argument as proof that Ascended gear needs to be removed, because 99.99999% of WvW isn’t like this. Having a small stat increase from Ascended gear will never guarantee wins in a real WvW fight. That is a proven fact, since no two players are exactly alike. You cannot measure skill level with numbers, therefore you cannot compare two different people.

This is how the current argument is going:

Ascended > Exotic. Therefore remove Ascended gear.
Exotic > Rare. Therefore remove Exotic gear.
Rare > Masterwork. Therefore remove Rare.
Masterwork > White. Therefore remove Masterwork.

I think the complainers would be happy if everyone was on the same level – Basic White gear. But they fail to realize that WvW is not SPvP. If they’re not happy with WvW, they should stick to the structured PvP part of the game, where everything is even.

But hark, there’s more:

Superior Runes can give an unfair advantage as well, since they add bonus stats to a player’s attributes. And since Superior Runes are so hard to come by in WvW… well, you know how the current argument goes.

Personally I would like it if they deleted PvE gear from WvW altogether:

• Make everyone level 80
• Provide skin database and armour with same stats (no tiers)

skgstan.9687:

You say I don’t listen to reason, but none of the nay sayers in this thread have actually explained the process by which they arrive at there conclusion. Simply yelling troll or telling people to get better is not an arguement. Make a valid point or concede that many valid points have been made by the OP. Know when yo admit your wrong, do not let your ego best you just because you think you know more than others.

Getting better IS an argument. The OP is wrong, there’s no free ticket to winning in WvW. Most PvE people have the advantage that they have more money than WvW players aswell, so I don’t see the need for any boost on their part.

Tankvieh.5796:

these suggestions are terrible,

tell you what, when you run arah or fractals for the first few times in pve you gonna get your kitten kicked hard and shoutet at from your party for beeing a noob,
only once you got some experience it will become manageable and finally “easy”.

In comparison when you join wvw for the first time you maybee get your kitten kicked (not if your running with the bigger zerg), and you usually dont get shoutet at for playing poorly .

once you got the experience where to position and tweaked your build + equip it becomes easier.

Why would you want to take away the learning curve from new players and give them some kind of idiot buttons?
When i am joining something new i expect to be bad at it and try to improve.

the people who are not willing to invest energy into improving their play are simply in the wrong place in wvw (as well as in any one of the harder dungeons / instances) and should stay with doing the other stuff anet provides (living world, world exploration, easy dungeons, events, jumping puzzles whatever).

Its the same everywhere, I also expect my pug in COF to learn the basic dungeon mechanics and not die on every mob 2 times.

I dont have any “attitude” toward new players and am happy to explain wvw to any one who asks and am happy for any new joines who wants to play it, but i dont want to cater the game towards some zerker who expects to rampage through wvw the same as in pve and crys for buffs once he gets outplayed.

That’s what I’ve been trying to state here, but the guy who’s replying just doesn’t listen to reason.

[SUGGESTION]

Calculate server rewards based on population!! Servers with a very low WvW population get better rewards based on their score.

For example:
Vabbi has about 1/2 the numbers of the servers WSR and FoW.
Though we still have a score of 152.000, compared to WSR 167.000 and FoW 196.000.
Consequently the players on Vabbi have put in a lot of effort to fight back and get such a score. Reward that!

skgstan.9687:

The attitude that you guys have to new players really is despicable. Learn by falling off cliffs? Again why don’t present some of your own actually ideas instead of just putting others down with sniping comments?

There is no easy solution. You don’t get victory without a price. And the price is effort and dedication from the player’s side. If you don’t want to go through that, you aren’t worth coming into WvW and better stay out altogether.

Svarty.8019:

If they dynamically incentivise attacking the leading side, things will change dramatically.

How would you reach this goal? (purely out of interest) ;p

Ross Biddle.2367:

Omne.4603:

I’m quite serious, about what i’ve posted. If others have suggestions they feel that are better i’d like to hear their ideas also.

I have a suggestion. For new players to learn like the rest of us did. Charging out into the battlefield, going down, falling off the wrong cliffs, dying all over the place, finding builds on the forums, discussing “MOAR PVT” on the channels, and generally getting out kitten together through learned experience. We’re stronger players for it today.

Exactly! You can only learn from experience that you shouldn’t do some things. Let them learn. The process shouldn’t even be boring, it was quite entertaining for me.

skgstan.9687:

Sirendor.1394:

Omne.4603:

I’m quite serious, about what i’ve posted. If others have suggestions they feel that are better i’d like to hear their ideas also.

Dude how can you be serious about that? Why should a PvE player get an edge in stats on a regular WvW player. If they want to get better at WvW, they should train on it, like we did.

Typical elitist attitude. I guess you’ve never been new at anything and just been amazing all the time. Why don’t you actually suggest something as opposed to coming in here and flaming?

I’m not flaming. The suggestion is just horrible. I’ve trained on WvW for months to master it and I’m still not at top level, why should anyone skip that?

Fact stays this:

• Ascended gear costs an impossible amount of gold (2x 200g for the crafting to 500 (in weapons and armour) and 60g per ascended piece).
• Ascended is Pay to win.
• It makes grinders stronger than dedicated WvW players.

Omne.4603:

I’m quite serious, about what i’ve posted. If others have suggestions they feel that are better i’d like to hear their ideas also.

Dude how can you be serious about that? Why should a PvE player get an edge in stats on a regular WvW player. If they want to get better at WvW, they should train on it, like we did.

Omne.4603:

In light of the inaugural World versus World season, a troubling issue has come to my, and others’, attention. Namely, a large influx of players, who normally participate in non-WvW game activities and types, are struggling to enjoy the gameplay which many of us have had several months to learn and master. Perhaps the greatest issue which interferes with these players’ enjoyment of WvW is the current meta of high-player count “zergs” (also known as “blobs”) which dominate combat. With this in mind, many players who are not prepared for the state of gameplay find themselves in the downed state quite frequently, without much of a chance to rejoin the large-scale battle that is WvW.
Quite frankly, if something is not done to help these players, the state of WvW will be placed in jeopardy – the developers cannot neglect these players if they expect long-term growth and stability.

Now, with this problem outlined, I now bring a potential solution to discussion: Downed State Mastery

The intention of this WvW Ability Mastery Tree is to balance the current disparity present in WvW for newcomers, both PvE veterans and under-leveled players alike. In other words, this line of abilities seeks to strengthen these players’ chances to stay in the fight!

Below are my preliminary ability suggestions:

Level 1: Gain 300% more hp while downed.
Level 2: All down state skill cooldowns are reduced by 70%.
Level 3: You transfer 1 condition to your attackers once per second.
Level 4: Once downed you will be rendered invulnerable for 2 seconds.
Level 5: Instant rally once downed on a 180 second cooldown. Once rallied you will recieve: protection, regeneration, retaliation and swiftness.

What you are suggesting is this: make PvE players stronger than WvW players so that they don’t die because they are total morons? No thanks.
The winner should be the skilled, not the one with the most buffs. Go home PvE’r.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Chase that carrot. Chase it HARD! LOL

Lol ikr.
If you don’t want to contribute to WvW, stay the hack out of it!

DevonCarver.5370:

Orion is correct, you will need to have done enough damage to the gate to get credit for the achievement.

Again you are totally forgetting uplevels… I’ve been playing this game (and WvW) since the open beta and I love playing alts. What’s the fun in specializing in one class? It’s a lot better for you and your team if you can bring up different classes, with equal skill. I have leveled a level 80: 1 engineer, 2 warriors, 1 mesmer, 1 guardian, 1 elementalist, 1 thief. I didn’t level necromancer or ranger so far.

Anyways, I think people who have a certain number of level 80s and are an adept in WvW shouldn’t be forced the “uplevel way” (aka. You are so weak a level 80 can one-hit you). For that matter I think uplevels are a joke, instead seperate WvW and PvE gear and make uplevels level 80 in WvW, with traits and armour.

Stop making WvW alt-unfriendly.

Monoman.2068:

Just give me an open world map where I can fight people and I will be wasting one less queue slot.

I agree. Any open world PvP would be better than WvW.

Npac.3476:

You guys realize the reason 99.9% of the players in this game blob is because they lack any past pvp experience and are afraid to die without the help of the blob….

Yea yea yea rewards this and that, that has some merit here, but the MAJORITY of the blobbers do it because its, easy, mindless, and compensates for ALL and ANY lack of actual player vs player talent.

The guys who run around and make videos/win fights that are EXTRAORDINARILY oddly favored against are players that have taken the time to A. develop a build with synergy for the scenario, B. learned how to kite/ not key turn/ macro keys/ NOT CLICK, and C. have most likely pvped on their comps in other mmos….

Anet captured the “I’m new to gaming and I want easy over anything else” market….that is fact here….

True, but arenanet has to accept that the backbone of WvW are the competitive guilds. They may blob all they like, coordinated WvW guilds (usually 5-20 people) will always have the tactical edge, though will be rewarded less for their efforts.
If those hardcore competitive players decide to drop away because WvW isn’t competitive… Anet has a problem. Blobbers barely have a clue what they’re doing.

Arrow.3856:

Assyrian.4827:

Drkxamas.6359:

fugazi.5139:

milo.6942:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

+1

+2

+3

+4

+5

+6 o-O

Heheh FoW is great at being farmed.

Haha, thanks zero for that golem rush. Was epic ^^

How is gandara doing? Left for Vabbi and I heard some rumors of hell from ex-guild.

Vayne.8563:

Galen Grey.4709:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Keep going. Keep going. We want a game that is fun, not “grind x”, “farm y”, “zerg z”

Except that’s what people have been asking for…. so apparently that is what they want. Maaaaybe not you or me specifically, but obviously we aren’t loud enough to offset those crying for those things.

We actually got a game that applies to both our groups but you have to be willing to choose what you love playing rather then whats more profitable.

Quoted for truth. People who must play the most efficient way are gimping their own enjoyment. Play the most fun way, and don’t worry about rewards.

Playing the most fun way does sadly also mean you miss out on some content.

Aberrant.6749:

Sirendor.1394:

Rally sometimes works in the advantage of the non-blobbers actually. Blobbers run glass cannon more often than not, so it’s easy to take them down. So if you focus on a guy while you’re downed and your team helps, you can get up. That’s really important for small groups.

That’s pretty rare. I mean it’s not just rally it’s also that the larger side has more people that can res… cleanse… heal… buff… cc… make it harder to get to that squishy backline etc. on top of the rallies. There are a lot of bad PvE achievement hunters with full zerk in WvW atm, but that won’t last.

True, but without rally you would just die, and then the battle would be over within seconds instead of minutes, as it goes now most of the time. I can’t remember the countless times I threw myself at one of my mates cc’ing people who tried to stomp and reviving and tanking the same time. I always stomp most of the time when I get someone downed too, unless I killed everyone else already.

Vol.5241:

RoyalPredator.9163:

“you lose out” isn’t acceptable. Its a design flaw.

It’s not a design flaw. It’s part of the game.

It’s no different than having to spend 5x more or go through a much harder route to get the best items in game.

If everything were to easy to acquire in a game, then what’s the point?

It is a design flaw, because it encourages ‘farming’ and farming isn’t playing the game, it’s doing a job.

Examples:

“Want that cool new gs skin?”
>> Go farming champions for a week!

“Can’t farm champions enough?”
>> Prices rise and you have to farm for 2 weeks. Wait another week and you’ll have to farm 3 weeks.

“Want to actually enjoy the game, doing a dungeon or some WvW/sPvP?”
>> Bad luck for you, you NEED to farm and grind!

rjnemer.7816:

As a Pve ’er my main problem with the game is how broken Risk vs. Reward is. The fact that you make equal if not more money running in a champ train over running the most difficult content (arah/48+ fractals) blows my mind.

We need INSTANCED elite content as well. PvE is way to easy right now.

Stopped playing PvE altogether.

And another crappy addition to Farming Story. Sure thing.

Nobody is having fun in Living story, except people without a brain.

What about this: make blobbers lagg and small groups not. Problem solved. Lets start killing them

TooBz.3065:

I love how everyone says skill > gear until you try to take theirs away.

Gear > skill.

Just take on any uplevel ever.

I’d like to react on this: both skill AND gear are important:

• Player 1 (85% control of class) vs. Player 2 (85% control of class). Both have the same skill.
• Player 1 however doesn’t have ascended, while Player 2 does.
• Player 2 has an edge (~15% more damage and defense) on Player 1.

• Player 1 (85% control of class) vs. Player 3 (60% control of class).
• Player 1 and player 3 will be matched, because even though player 3 is less competent (he will miss sometimes, dodge at wrong intervals, use skill wrongly, but he still is rather ok with his class), the match will still be close, because player 3 has that extra 15%.

On the other hand: uplevels are usually stronger than level 80s, when the uplevel is a competent player (anything from 70%-90% class control) – and the level 80 is someone with 0-50% class control.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Keep going. Keep going. We want a game that is fun, not “grind x”, “farm y”, “zerg z”

Except that’s what people have been asking for…. so apparently that is what they want. Maaaaybe not you or me specifically, but obviously we aren’t loud enough to offset those crying for those things.

I would think casual players are ok with that, because they don’t play the game for hours. But people who do and have acquired some skill in a certain area of the game, albeit combat or jumping puzzles, feel the need for using that skill, not being forced into mindless action.

Right now the progression we see in this game is:

• Gear grind: exotic -> ascended
• Skins: farm a week and buy that super mega epic trash skin (legendaries included).

Better progression: Specialisation in your class:

• Choose a new “path” (choice out of 2 or 3 subclasses per existing class) and gain new trait lines and skills through this process.
• This wouldn’t be P2W like ascended, cause it can’t be bought (full ascended costs some 500g, with crafting to 500?)
• Progression wouldn’t mean you are better than new players, it just gives you a change of perspective and adds an incentive for finding new ways to play and using new builds based on new skills and traits.
• Key element to this would be that you make sure each specialisation is balanced with the existing base classes.

Unlocking paths?

• A minimum of PvE hours on a character (for PvE players)
• A minimum of WvW hours on a character (for WvW players)
• A minimum of global hours on a character (for PvX players)
• A minimum of PvP hours on a character (for PvP players)

This way you don’t get rewarded for farming ‘points’, but for playing the game, no matter what you are doing during those hours.

Laxus.3062:

Sirendor.1394:

The FoW new guild must feel great. Lol saddos.

i dont remember the name but i got asked by a guild if wsr had potential wvw players to join their guild (this was probably the same guild that went to FOW) telling me they came from “practise” <— yeah right. i think they will do more harm then good to fow by stealing players and leave in a later stage. this is all just speculation ofcourse.

I wasn’t saying FoW are saddos, far from it. But that guild is just a joke. We did 5v15 yesterday against a group of them, and they died like mice. And they run when it’s 1v3 (3 of theirs).

I’m not sure what this means or if it should be applauded. People like you ruin WvW by running around in zergs to cap cap cap and farm farm farm.

Rally sometimes works in the advantage of the non-blobbers actually. Blobbers run glass cannon more often than not, so it’s easy to take them down. So if you focus on a guy while you’re downed and your team helps, you can get up. That’s really important for small groups.

Draygo.9473:

I have no sympathy for you. SoR encouraged guilds to transfer to them. You get what you ask for.

You stack your server you suffer the consequences.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/recruitment/T1-SOR-Looking-For-Late-NA-OCN-SEA-WvWers

Viva la Revolución!

Hastur.4937:

Reading this forum and trying to have a reasoned discussion (not possible in any forum of this type) about some of the issues uncovered by this season of WvW achievements, I feel that the big issue isn’t the lag or the long queue lines, it’s giving incentive to a farming mentality and not giving incentive to skill.

This really is the issue that isn’t being addressed. I’m from SoR and haven’t had substantive issues with queues or lag since we’ve been on that server… until last week’s patch dropped. Now everyone is yelling about insane queues and unbearable skill lag.

Those are not the issues, they are the symptoms of a bigger, long standing issue: WvW incentives are based on a PvE system and not a PvP system

These incentives all revolve around PvE concepts – Farming – and farming does not require skill. We all want epic WvW where anyone who wants to participate can. Zergs are stupid and only exist to maximize farming objectives. Create a system that rewards skill and diminishes returns on the blunt force of the zerg.

I agree, but it’s hardly possible, except if you do it purely for fun.

On Vabbi we have a small guild going (~5 guys in WvW at all times) and FoW (other server in match-up) just got a mass transfer from a few big guilds. Point being, those guys are farmers, grinders and blobbers. BUT they are also brainless morons. They are part of the first category, those who play for farming.

So we went into their BL (that was completely their colours) and started the havoc.
One of ours went to lure big groups (usually around 10-15) and we killed them all without a lot of effort, since they were total idiots. I was playing on a totally new level 2 engineer… one of our guys went down, I rushed in, killed one of their squishies, stomped and we got on. Just the fact that I, with 3 skills unlocked, could kill one of them was a great show of their skill.

In this instance we won, we got loot, and we had a great time. Sure, rewards weren’t anything compared to 60 people zergs farming eachother, but the fun we had doing this… no blob can ever have that.