But the downed state itself is horrible. It has zero survivability. So they want to make our downed state even more rubbish? I think Anet has a totally different view of the necro than the players that play the class.
I disagree, now that we have the appropriate amount of health in downed state (they fixed that one a good while ago) and all (?) of our traits work correctly while downed, I think we are in pretty good shape.
With the way things are currently it is almost like we enter lich form when we get downed. Kind of sad that they´ll take it away from us, but it is justified of course.
One thing they maybe could improve is the #2 fear. A shorter duration AoE fear instead of the longer lasting single target fear would feel more appropriate to me, but yeah, I don´t think that should be top-priority right now 
Here we go again boiz´n´grils. Oh well…
1. A boss that is immune to direct damage but take twice the condi damage. (perhaps in combination with a boss that is immune to condis).
Bad idea, it would not only hurt/invalidate beserker´s gear but any stat combination not having condi damage or vice versa.
Mobs with high toughness and low health like husks? Yes please. Total immunity against either direkt damage or condis? Nope.
2. Some rooms applying so many conditions and strips so many boons that a designated support class is needed to keep the party alive. (This’d kill necros though…)
There is no designated support class in this game, pls get over it already
Besides that, almost all of the current “zerker meta” builds are supportive builds, both offensive as well as defensive.
3. A boss that has an AoE hard hitting move (unavoidable) that would down any player without Vitality or Toughness in 1 move.
Content that forces even the very best players to take extra Vita and/or Toughness is bad. Making content even more punishing than it already is in certain instances can´t be the solution.
My god, I can almost hear the tortured screams and the pitiful woes of all average-joe players, down through the ages, right into my livingroom (too much coffee, sry \OuO/)
4. A boss that has hard hitting moves for immobile players? (much like some vine attacks in SW, but more potent)
I´d like more mordrem-like mobs actually as something like the thresher´s tentacle attack punishes lazy play. I still miss the old retal-wolves. They were nasty, but in a good way =,(
5. A boss that drains Endurance, forcing players to take a hit from time to time.
Similar issue as with your “unavoidable attacks” suggestions. Dedicated players will just bring what is necessary (e.g. take double energy sigils, bring more vigor, etc.) and more casual players would probably hate and avoid it.
6. A boss that takes damage from healing, a zombie of some kind.
Eeerr… no… just no. I doubt something like that can work at all in the first place, but how would that be promoting “build diversity”?
Every class has access to heals and healing power scales so poorly that it wouldn´t even be worth it for most people to invest into extra healing gear just for one encounter. It´s much easier to just swap out some traits, weapons and/or utility skills, which is exactly what people are doing right now anyways if it gives them a considerable advantage in certain situations.
There is so much potential that could end the Zerker meta, so many ways dungeons could become more fun and rewarding, but instead we’re mostly given champions with a bit more HP.
I could describe a really cool dungeon using various elements, but that’d probably fall on deaf ears so I’ll post these few ideas for now
Why are you and so many others under the impression that the “zerker meta” is what makes dungeons an unpleasant experience for you these days?
So, for the umpteenth time:
- Even if you personally are not happy with the current meta, there are enough people that DO like it the way it is now.
- “Nerf it because I don´t like it” is not a reasonable argument.
- Fun is a very subjective thing. I for example LOVE IT when mobs get obliterated by a hail of AoEs and I feel really pleased and rewarded if I manage to execute one of the more difficult skips/trash runs flawlessly.
- If you don´t like something in this game, that´s ok! Just don´t do it then =) You are not forced to use meta builds or skip or LoS mobs to successfully complete any dungeon you wish to do.
- The current dungeon/fractal content is old and stale for a lot of people by now because they´ve completed them over and over and over again. Maybe that´s the problem and not “the meta”?
- Some of the old encounter design is outright bad and very one-dimensional. I think nobody is trying to deny that and most people that still do dungeons on a regular basis wish it was different. But adding things like hard dps-checks, more time-gating or artificially forcing “build diversity” by excluding certain stat combination by design wont help to improve the situation at all I think.
Did I forget something important? I´m tired…
The way I see it, Necromancer is only good (not decent, not acceptable, but truly good) under these three circumstances:
- If you have a team (sPvP/WvW roaming) or a zerg (general WvW) backing you up, peeling for you and supporting you.
- If you play Hotjoins or soloQ against unorganized teams that can´t manage to focus you down properly.
- If you are Nos, the only Necro consistently having success with his team in the competitive scene right now.
Unfortunately, we can´t all be Nos
GW2 dungeons leave no room for casual runners or explorers – since the last boss is the only reward.
This wasn´t always the case if I remember correctly. In the (good) old CoF1-all-the-way days, before daily dungeon rewards were introduced, the gold reward was split up among all the bosses of a path. But it still didn´t reward exploring very much, probably because of the linear nature of most paths. People used to kill some extra champs here and there, but that´s about it.
To make exploring in dungeons a truly rewarding experience (and it really should be considering the paths are called “explorable” not “rushable” ) the devs basically would need to redesign every single path from scratch and that is just not a realistic thing to ask or expect from them.
Life Siphon. It’s rubbish.
I like that guy, he gets it.
From that comment alone? No he doesn’t. Life Siphon is quite good with values and scaling rather equivalent to another #6 skill.
On everything else? Yeah, he’s spot-on.
What I meant is, I like this rather elaborate way of expressing issues he has with certain aspects of the Necromancer skill-set.
Also, I´m quite fond of cucumbers, y´know?
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I rly love the new lingering curse , would be a bummer if it got nerfed.
It is a matter of preference I guess. I prefer increased base duration over higher duration overall since afaik base duration can´t be increased by any means other than traits.
And I didn t know Weakening Shroud got an ICD
Yeah, it really sucks =/ It will be dagger off-hand #5 on DS entry basically, hence the 25sec cooldown. I doubt they will take it back, because then it wouldn´t fit their new “effects caused by traits should correspond to weapon/utility skills”-philosophy anymore.
Regarding the topic of Curses GM traits, a lot of really solid suggestions have been made already in other threads. Two option I´d like are…
- Reworked Withering Precision: Chance for weakness on crits (no ICD), 10% increased damage against weakened foes
- Renamed version of the current Target the Weak (“Cull the Weak” maybe?): 2% increased damage for each condition on a foe
But that of course still requires the removal of one GM trait (preferably Parasitic Contagion), or merging two traits in the line.
The problem I have with such builds (regardless of how effective they might be) is that the bulk of the life stealing actually comes from food, sigils and runes, NOT the Necro traits So yeah, “Blood Magic is garbage” hits the nail on the head I think.
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However I think that with some minor changes this has alot of potential, a major (at least for me) change was that Haemophilia is now merged with barbed precision, thus making room for Enfeebling Blood, which is great for obvious reasons.
Weakening Shroud (Enfeebling Blood on DS entry) was actually nerfed, because they added a 25sec ICD to it, so I´m not all to happy about that
Now, here is how the rest could be fixed:
-Terror takes its place back in master traits or is made to be the 3rd Minor trait, this is since Terror is a must have trait for any Necro condi build, hence the name “terrormancer”. The problem is that we have Terror with what is seemingly another absolutely must have trait: the revamped Lingering Curses, which received a major buff IMO.
-Path of Corruption to be moved back to GM eventhough to me, it doesnt compete with Lingering curses unless it corrupts saaay 4 boons?
-Target the Weak still contributes nothing to a condi build, I honestly think Path of Corruption (or Terror) would sit very nicely as a 3rd minor trait.
I think reshuffling the master and GM traits is a must, since Terror vs Lingering curses I think will do more harm than good to condi builds
I think having to make a choice between Terror and Lingering Curse isn´t that bad. It is basically condi-“burst” vs more condi-damage over a longer period of time, which is fine I guess.
What I don´t like about Lingering Curse is that it probably will be very powerful in PvP, but pretty useless in PvE, because you can achieve 100% increased condi-duration by other means (food) very easily. I think they should keep the condi-duration increase the way it is now (33% base condi-duration; i.e. does not count towards maximum condi-duration) and just add the +150 condi-damage while wielding scepter.
The real problem is Parasitic Contagion, it doesn´t do enough for a GM trait (even with lets say ~7 stacks of bleeding, poison and 1-2 stacks of torment on your target the healing is laughable) and it really should be in Blood Magic not Curses.
That way there would also be room for a new GM trait in Curses useable by power builds (which we´ll lack otherwise, rendering Curses as a suboptimal choice for power builds).
That´s your opinion (and it´s totally OK for you to have it, no question), but nothing more
Why thank you. I tend to feel rather strongly about it, because game design is my job as well. It’s a topic close to my heart. I can’t stand it when people let a game designer off the hook so easily. If players were playing the game wrong in one of my games, I would feel completely at fault for it.
Well, I´m not a game designer, I´m a player and as a player I will make use of all relevant tools the devs gave me to complete any given content I want to complete. The notion the people play something “the wrong way” just because you would have designed it differently is just your personal opinion, not a somehow universal truth.
In my book, as long as you don´t clearly break the rules of the game (e.g. by using save-spots, breaking out of maps or mountain-goating your way to the final boss of a dungeon) it is not wrong, whether one likes it or not.
And why do you think my argument is rubbish? It is fact that nobody in this game is forced to use these strategies. Everybody has the freedom to create their own parties, with their own set of rules and the possibility to enforce those rules.
Yes, but ultimately it’s the game designers that design what is possible. They design what is the most profitable, fun, and easiest way of completing a dungeon. So it just bothers me when people say “then just play it your way”. That’s missing the point. A dungeon should encourage players to be played the way the designers intended it to be played.
I don´t think game developers can really dictate what is and what is not fun for the players. They can steer it to an extent by limiting game-play options, yes, but in the end everybody enjoys different things about the game and gets annoyed/bored/frustrated by other things.
I for example enjoy well executed skips very much. It feels very rewarding and fun to me if I pull it of flawlessly. You don´t like it? Fine, don´t do it. But if you are not forced to do it as well, why do you want to take the fun away from me then?
If you CHOOSE not to do certain things that CAN be done in this game that’s your business, not mine
And it is my opinion that the “solutions” he presented are pretty stupid (note the “I personally” in my post).
I would say, misinformed. The intention is there, but I do not agree with the solution he presents.
No need to be salty =P I´m not dismissing every suggestion ever made on this forum, just two of those the OP of this thread suggested, because I think they a) wouldn´t solve anything or b) would break some stuff completely (imagine e.g. cliffside fractal with player collision, hf walking across those planks).
I don’t think player collision is the answer either. But I recognize the problem he points out. I think he just oversimplifies the issue. It is really a very complicated problem, hinging on many other problems.
Again, all just opinions (mine and yours). But at least we can agree that what he suggested wont help to improve GW2´s dungeon experience =)
The thing is, if these people really want to kill every single mob in their path, while being scattered across the room, they are 100% free to do so. Nobody will stop them =P
All they need to do is list their party as “pX – full clear – no stacking” on the lfg-tool and enforce said requirements by kicking people that don´t fulfill them. That is really all they need to do.
Yeah, that argument is rubbish, and you know it. What the game designers need to do, is create dungeons that don’t encourage this sort of behavior. Plenty of other MMO’s are perfectly capable of doing that. So why make excuses, and try to put the blame with the players?
Game designers are responsible for the behavior of players in their game. It is their job to create an environment that encourages the intended playing behavior. When that fails, and players not do what they intended, the designer is at fault. I think it would be hard to find any competent game designer that would put the blame on the players instead.
That´s your opinion (and it´s totally OK for you to have it, no question), but nothing more
The design choices the devs made when originally creating dungeons allow us to do things such as LoSing and skipping mobs, so as far as I´m concerned those are legitimate strategies to complete said content. Exploits such as “save-spotting” and so forth are a totally different story of course and should always be fixed asap (looking at you Lupi-wall-cheesers).
And why do you think my argument is rubbish? It is fact that nobody in this game is forced to use these strategies. Everybody has the freedom to create their own parties, with their own set of rules and the possibility to enforce those rules.
So I personally don´t get at all why there is a need to come here and suggest ridiculous and absolutely tedious stuff (sry OP) like this:
He is trying to present a solution to a complex problem. We may not agree on his solution, but the problem is real.
And it is my opinion that the “solutions” he presented are pretty stupid (note the “I personally” in my post).
Just try to play the game how you want and find like-minded people to do so. Don´t try to force your preferences onto a different/broader audience, m´kay? Entitlement mentality is bad, m´kay?
-He said with a smug tone, dismissing any suggestion that the current dungeons are a horrible mess that were rushed with the game to meet an early release date.
No need to be salty =P I´m not dismissing every suggestion ever made on this forum, just two of those the OP of this thread suggested, because I think they a) wouldn´t solve anything or b) would break some stuff completely (imagine e.g. cliffside fractal with player collision, hf walking across those planks).
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melee is exployt, nerf plox
…
@OP: All I can gather from this thread is “I don´t like it that people are doing this -> must be removed”. I don´t like unnecessary stacking either (there are still sooo many people that stack in old FGS spots), but you know what I do? I don´t care and just finish the dungeon =P
If you don´t like stacking in general just open up your own “no stacking”-group on the lfg-tool and kick people that don´t fulfill the requirement – simple as that.I never said i don’t like it or that they should stop it. Just saying that stacking merely means that your whole team is standing in roughly the same spot. Be it in a corner or in the open.
Everything after “@OP: …” was directed at the person that opened this topic and that is not you I believe
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Yeah, on the topic of condi cap removal, I agree with what Anchoku said.
Necros can´t stack high numbers of damaging conditions on their own (compared to Engi, Warrior or even Ranger), so the cap removal wont improve our performance in PvE much.
As for the rest of the changes, well… at least they didn´t delete the profession
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I´ll just link the extensive (but maybe not-so-serious) suggestions I made in the other thread here. Have fun
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Double-HP-bar-no-defence-skills/first#post5016186
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Double-HP-bar-no-defence-skills/first#post5016191
Traits (based on changes proposed in AMA livestream)
Spite
- Keep Axe Training´s current functionality (10% damage, 20% reduced recharge)
Curses
- Keep Target the Weak´s current functionality (2% increased damage per condition on foe)
- Merge Weakening Shroud into Path of Corruption as a Master trait
- Move Reaper´s Precision to Adept traits
- Move Terror to Master traits
- Remove Lingering Curse; add 33% increased base condition duration while wielding a Scepter to Parasitic Contagion
- Keep Withering Precision as Grandmaster trait; also applies 5s of Poison (1 stack) on critical hits; lower ICD from 20s to 5s
- Add new Grandmaster trait Cull the Weak; 2% increased critical hit chance for each condition on foe
Death Magic
- [QoL-CHANGE] Add F2 Skill to lock your Minions onto your current target; add F3 Toggle-Skill to set your minions to passive- or attack-mode (grey out if no minions summoned)
- Change Shrouded Removal to remove 1 condition every 3s while in Death Shroud
- Merge Soul Marks (SR Adept trait) into Greater Marks as a Master trait; increase Life Force gain from Soul Marks from 3% when triggered to 4% (additive to proposed 1% base LF gain)
- Move Deadly Strength to Soul Reaping Adept traits; lower damage modifier from 7% based on toughness to 5% [see Soul Reaping]
- Move Necromantic Corruption to Master traits; lower damage modifier to 15% increased minion damage
- Increase Unholy Sanctuary´s base healing from 130/s to 362/s; remove second effect; add gain a random boon every second (1s interval) while in Death Shroud (3s of Protection, 3s of Regeneration, 3s of Resistance or 5s of Swiftness)
- Add new Grandmaster trait Virtue of the Master; each Minion periodically (pulse, every 10s) grants a unique Boon to both itself and you (Blood Fiend 10s of Regeneration; Bone Fiend 10s of Swiftness; Shadow Fiend 3s of Retaliation; Flesh Worm 3s of Protection; Bone Minion 10s of Might; Jagged Horror 5s of Might; Flesh Golem 5s of Fury)
Blood Magic
- [BASELINE] Siphon skills heal you while in Death Shroud
- Keep Blood to Power´s current functionality (+120 Power while health above 75%)
- Merge Vampiric Precision into Bloodthirst as an Adept trait
- Remove ICD on Mark of Evasion
- Add a 5% damage modifier while wielding a dagger to Quickening Thirst
- Add new Master trait Blood of the Aggressor; inflict 5s of Weakness to foes you siphon health from (15s ICD) and gain +300 healing power while your health is below 75%
- Remove Deadly Invigoration
- Unholy Martyr; add Life Blast now transfers one condition on hit
- Add new Grandmaster trait Insidious Parasite; 66% chance to siphon health from a foe attacking you (base healing 453, base damage 451; chance to activate on hit; no ICD)
Soul Reaping
- [See Death Magic] Remove Soul Marks and add Deadly Strength to Soul Reaping Adept traits; lower damage modifier from 7% based on toughness to 5%
- Dhuumfire; critical hits apply 4s of Burning (1 stack) and 33% chance to gain 5s of Fire Shield when hit by a foe
Something along those lines would be the selfish Necromancer I´d like to play. Numbers should be tweaked here and there of course, I just randomly chose what felt about right to me (and I might be biased due to almost 3 years of being neglected =P). So yeah, probably not exactly be the smartest and most interesting class-design for an mmo, but hey, would work for me