Guild Wars 2

Nubz Unite.5694:

I find it hilarious how angry you guys are at the fact that HoD is night capping if we have such a strong night presence that we just instacap everything at night how does that explain that we weren’t able to take anything during friday saturday and sunday? we have a strong night presence but I find it funny how this thread was made on the day we start winning.

Excellent question, easy answer.

On the weekends sometimes I stay up real late getting drunk and playing video games.
On weekdays I have a job and a family that need me to be well rested and sober.

I am not unique in this respect.

GW and GW2 were designed with the idea of gear progression not included. Grinds for mechanical or systemic bonuses are largely not present.

Progression in this game basically means cosmetic gear.

If that should ever change, I wouldn’t even log on the forums to whine about it. I would just do what I have done with so many games over the years, uninstall, put it on my shelf, and file it away as “well that was cool for a while”.

Many, many GW2 players are here primarily because of that design decision. Some players have been arguing to try to change it since the beta forums opened, and I sincerely hope ANet comes out soon with a statement that simply says: “no”.

I don’t think shorter games is the answer, because then WvW loses something… it loses the ability to look at the long game, and just becomes a zerg fest for points.

Phaedryn.3698:

Sky.9347:

Phaedryn.3698:

Sky.9347:

displacedTitan.6897:

The other side of this argument is that without the 24/7 chance to come back HoD would have lost within the first weekend.
All it would take is a few hours of two servers ganging up like happened this weekend. SBI and ET essentially kept borders with each other while beating down HoD and put them back what 30k and 10k or so, respectively.
Now that its a complete 3 way and the scores are even in NA primetime there would be NO way to catch back up if not for nightcapping. Population balance is the ONLY way to fix these issues. The same has been true for ALL 24/7 pvp fights in any game. You can never mechanic your way out of this problem.

Let’s say for a moment that HoD didn’t have the massive night crew.

As SBI pulled further ahead, it would be my estimation that ET and HoD would begin double teaming them back.

Then ET would pull ahead, and SBI and HoD would beat them senseless.

As the design intended.

Agreed, the only real problem is that this mechanic requires enough time to pass to allow it to work. Right now pairings are too short in duration, even at 1 week, to give this time to work as intended. Which is really a big part of the problem, we are seeing (and reacting to) spikes that would, over time, level out quite a bit. The pairings just do not take place over long enough periods for this to ever happen.

Well, these spikes occur once every day. I don’t see how they would level out, since it is the same server that gets pushed back during the day, and explodes with massive map domination every single night.

Aside from weekends, this pattern has been very predictable and recurring.

True, but without with a limited duration coupled with a win/lose mechanic (point scores) nobody would care. The average would be (more) acceptable. For me, it’s everyone worried about the score that is the issue. Frankly, I hate that there is a publicly viewable scoring system.

I agree that the score total is perhaps a bad idea.

It could be cool, if the matches were balanced – there was an anti snowball mechanic – and some kind of reward for 1st AND 2nd place.

Without those things, it seems relatively useless for any positive contribution to W3.

@insignia,

No, it isn’t anyone’s “fault”, it isn’t a bad strategy, and it isn’t “wrong”.

But it IS a problem for the future of W3 in GW2.

As someone who really enjoys this game, and REALLY enjoys W3 – I have a vested interest in standing up and speaking out about it.

Von.2790:

SpectacularYak.6518:

Von.2790:

But without it, there’s no sense of accomplishment.

Horsecrap. I have no idea exactly when it was that this hilarious delusion began that the only way to experience a “sense of accomplishment” in a game was to watch your avatars numbers go up, but it’s like everyone’s IQ dropped 50 points overnight.

Somehow we have a world FULL of games and sports and competitive activities in which your sense of accomplishment and reward comes through winning or excelling, and yet we have this subsect of MMO players who continue to insist that the only meaningful form of reward is numbers. Numbers go up, or GTFO, they insist.

And both of you old school gamers can stop waxing poetic about a better time. I’ve been gaming since 1982. DAoC was an amazing game, but it was also an unbalanced nightmare of cheesing and exploits.

You’re boiling down what I said into “watch your avatar’s numbers go up”. I wouldn’t play that game. If you over-simplify, sure it’ll sound dumb. I can simplify online gaming down to twiddling bits in a computer for hours at a time, and that sounds even more dumb!

We both know that what makes something fun cannot be easily boiled down to one thing. Yes, numbers went up in DAoC. But with that you also got other permanent abilities. You could feel yourself getting stronger. You could change the way you play the game by adding a new ability into your repertoire. This and many other things all contributed to a feeling of character progression. It gave a permanence and a reason to keep going out over and over again.

The problem with your analogy of other sports and competitions is that when you win, it IS permanent, and there is a very real, tangible sense of accomplishment. If the Cubs win the World Series in 2013, they will forever have won the World Series in 2013. There are dozens of ways that that sense of accomplishment could be diminished, say if the World Series were held weekly… And that’s the problem with winning being the reward in MMO’s. Because winning as a sense of accomplishment has been diminished. That’s precisely why something else, character progression for example, is needed to fill in the gap.

But if the Cubs win the World Series in 2013 they don’t get the ability to now use heavier bats than the competition.

Sports have rules that are there to provide the most level playing field possible, so that the game becomes human vs. human, not equipment vs. equipment.

Ask Nascar, they have some experience with the difficulty of regulating performance machines.

Phaedryn.3698:

Sky.9347:

displacedTitan.6897:

The other side of this argument is that without the 24/7 chance to come back HoD would have lost within the first weekend.
All it would take is a few hours of two servers ganging up like happened this weekend. SBI and ET essentially kept borders with each other while beating down HoD and put them back what 30k and 10k or so, respectively.
Now that its a complete 3 way and the scores are even in NA primetime there would be NO way to catch back up if not for nightcapping. Population balance is the ONLY way to fix these issues. The same has been true for ALL 24/7 pvp fights in any game. You can never mechanic your way out of this problem.

Let’s say for a moment that HoD didn’t have the massive night crew.

As SBI pulled further ahead, it would be my estimation that ET and HoD would begin double teaming them back.

Then ET would pull ahead, and SBI and HoD would beat them senseless.

As the design intended.

Agreed, the only real problem is that this mechanic requires enough time to pass to allow it to work. Right now pairings are too short in duration, even at 1 week, to give this time to work as intended. Which is really a big part of the problem, we are seeing (and reacting to) spikes that would, over time, level out quite a bit. The pairings just do not take place over long enough periods for this to ever happen.

Well, these spikes occur once every day. I don’t see how they would level out, since it is the same server that gets pushed back during the day, and explodes with massive map domination every single night.

Aside from weekends, this pattern has been very predictable and recurring.

insignia.3625:

The self-righteousness in this thread is overwhelming.

What if the situation was reversed? You dont see players outside of US calling
it “primetime”. There is no primetime in a 24/7 evolving battleground. Proposing
a so-called fix when there isnt a problem just shows how conceited or misguided
you can be.

There you go, you’re working into it… go ahead, you know you want to call us all racists.

There isn’t a problem for HoD or the one EU server on top. There is for everybody else. And this whole insinuation that anyone who claims there is a problem is either a xenophobe or racist is ridiculous. You guys do that every time this gets discussed, and it is disgusting.

Roland Falantyr.3290:

I am curious how long the winning servers will enjoy the lack of contentious matches. I have a bad feeling that the winning servers are all filled with alliances who stacked servers intentionally anyway.

I remember when the good pvp guilds would go to underdog servers on purpose in past games. My, how gamers have changed over the years…

The problem with that is that the first few days are awesome… and THEN the landslide victory happens later.

So these “elite alliances” comfort themselves by convincing themselves that they didn’t win on the weekend because they couldn’t get their whole group in, but they managed to finally get everyone in during the week and truly assert their dominance and superiority of skill.

Then, they relish in their landslide victory as a counter-argument to the fact that they get curb stomped every weekend.

… or something like that.

SpectacularYak.6518:

Von.2790:

But without it, there’s no sense of accomplishment.

Horsecrap. I have no idea exactly when it was that this hilarious delusion began that the only way to experience a “sense of accomplishment” in a game was to watch your avatars numbers go up, but it’s like everyone’s IQ dropped 50 points overnight.

Somehow we have a world FULL of games and sports and competitive activities in which your sense of accomplishment and reward comes through winning or excelling, and yet we have this subsect of MMO players who continue to insist that the only meaningful form of reward is numbers. Numbers go up, or GTFO, they insist.

And both of you old school gamers can stop waxing poetic about a better time. I’ve been gaming since 1982. DAoC was an amazing game, but it was also an unbalanced nightmare of cheesing and exploits.

Now Pong… that kitten was BALANCED PVP!

silvermember.8941:

Phaedryn.3698:

Malarky.9546:

I am having so much fun with this matchup. As a HOD player, and a member of TA…It’s a bit frustrating to see all the extent of the flame war, the QQ about night capping, and the QQ from my own server about being ganged up on.

As an ET player, I have to agree. Frankly, the last few days have been the most fun I have had in WvWvW yet.

As an SBI the last 3 days up to monday morning was fun. We were fighting against each other back and forth. Unfortuantely, the flaw of WvW finally kicked in. I see one of the problems with it being that the devs are unwilling to make hard choices with respect to population balance. The top and lower tier matches are going to get screwed while the middle tiers get good matches. Kinda wish I was in the middle tier, it will be fun, exciting while still giving any of the sides a chance to win. The top tier you are screwed the moment monday morning hits.

The middle tier matches are all the same, too.

The reason is because no matter where you fit into the grand scheme of things, one of the three servers WILL have an opportunity to full cap while facing little resistance, and then it’s a downhill ride from there.

Roland Falantyr.3290:

The devs are still holding out hope that this is a matchmaking issue.
If they move to two week matches without any changes WvW will become unplayable.

No it will be great for the first 3 days.

Then the second weekend, we MIGHT have a couple days worth of a fun uphill battle, clawing out a place in the world for our server.

Then it’ll be over.

Keldrath.4735:

Nick.3926:

Servers that play against HoD will eventually stop investing time and money into WvW if the nightcapping continues. There is no point to invest so much when it’ll be taken away when everyone is sleeping or working.

They need to do something about HoD, period.
As it stands they are in a league of their own due to night capping while #2, #3 and #4 are fairly balanced and then everyone else is way below them.

What will happen is #2 and #3 will always lose to HoD and #4 will always win vs #5 and #6 which willr esult in #4 moving up every week to lose to HoD only to have a new server fall back down to #4 to dominate #5 and #6. Week after week after week.

That assumes things will remain static and they wont. SBI is getting better all the time, they are a good server and I and many on my server respect their ability in WvW. They can certainly play at a similar level to HoD. Their coordination and siege tactics are almost at the same level, at the very least its on a higher level than the other 2-4 servers. ET also has a ton of potential as well, if AA was going at it harder i’m sure they could compete for first place easily as well, I know they have a ton of very good players and they are very good at siege, though the rest of their server, idk so much. But they know as well as I do they can’t do it all by themselves, just like titan can’t do it all by themselves.

HoD is ahead of the rest still, but the other servers in the top 3 are closing the gap pretty quickly. I know one thing that helps a lot on my server is the chat, there is a lot of communication going on and things not related t the battle are practically non existant. people call things out, respond quickly, and often the titan players will relay messages to the rest of us, telling the “militia” where they are needed etc. There is a lot of coordination and teamwork going on. That is something I think anyone who wants to compete for #1 is going to need to have.

You’ve never played on any server but HoD, right?

You still seem to think that it’s just HoDs ability to communicate and organize. You aren’t seeing what is right in front of you.

Friday, Saturday, Sunday – very close, exciting match.
Monday, Tuesday – everything has been capped by HoD, and they will soon take #1 in points.

So you think that obviously, it’s because HoD has superior tactics and these other servers just aren’t on your level yet.

Open your eyes, buddy. HoD has excellent communication, organization, and strategy… but SO does SBI and ET. What HoD has that SBI and ET don’t have is 24/7 W3 participation.

emoleas.4309:

Tuesday Morning

All is lost. HoD has captured everything on the SBI side, all upgrades reset. HoD has closed the gap by another 10k over night. After having spent ~12g in this matchup alone, I decide it’s not worth it anymore to spend anything else. This is the last EB update for this match-up.

The weekend was fun guys. You all put up a great fight. We just can’t field the numbers to even mount a proper defense during the night.

To those that say HoD were getting 2v1’d and thats the only reason SBI was in 1st. That is completely false. We held EB down for the majority of Saturday, and all Sunday against both servers. I can’t speak about borderlands, but over the weekend: skill and strategy led SBI to #1, not some silly alliance.

I look forward to next reset and weekend!

Do you see this ANet? The bolded part is becoming more and more common in the thought processes of even your most hardcore W3 fans.

I would pay close attention if I were you guys.

Thanks for the updates, they were great. It really was an awesome weekend. Time to start saving up for next Friday!

For what it’s worth, my proposal would be to eliminate the designation of EU and NA servers, add a little bit of data to the select server screen (ping value), and let everyone reshuffle.

Combine 1 NA server + 1 EU server and you have 1 Henge of Denravi

silvermember.8941:

Sky.9347:

Roland Falantyr.3290:

Sky.9347:

You guys are all talking about the point system, which I used to do too – but you’re missing the point.

It isn’t about the points, it’s about the objectives themselves. Scaling the point system means the night capper is only 10k ahead instead of 50k ahead – BUT they still have fully upgraded and heavily sieged keeps in YOUR territory, massive stockpiles of supply, and long range siege pointed at your spawn zone.

Doesn’t matter what the point score is, you still have to find a way to get your first tower back.

I think you are right that the snowballing of objective based advantages is a problem. You are wrong though, to downplay the scores. The scores make the game pointless after getting nightcapped once.

That’s true, and as I’ve said before the score does matter because it generates (andkitten interest in the game.

But the score is really a symptom of the problem.

The scoring system, will keep players in the game and not just have them completely give up. Also your point about all those upgrades would be valid in a 1v1 server match. But when you are up against 2 other servers, it would be extremely difficult to defend all your keeps even if they are all super upgrade except possibly the Stone in EB but that should be nerfed a little more. And if they can’t take it back maybe they should lose.

My point really is to prevent servers from just downright giving and stay in the match.

The funny thing about the way the maps are designed is that when a server gets pushed back into their citadel, they have to leave through one of three choke points.

It’s actually easier to keep a server in their spawn (while fully upgraded) than it is to get them there in the first place.

displacedTitan.6897:

The other side of this argument is that without the 24/7 chance to come back HoD would have lost within the first weekend.
All it would take is a few hours of two servers ganging up like happened this weekend. SBI and ET essentially kept borders with each other while beating down HoD and put them back what 30k and 10k or so, respectively.
Now that its a complete 3 way and the scores are even in NA primetime there would be NO way to catch back up if not for nightcapping. Population balance is the ONLY way to fix these issues. The same has been true for ALL 24/7 pvp fights in any game. You can never mechanic your way out of this problem.

Let’s say for a moment that HoD didn’t have the massive night crew.

As SBI pulled further ahead, it would be my estimation that ET and HoD would begin double teaming them back.

Then ET would pull ahead, and SBI and HoD would beat them senseless.

As the design intended.

Roland Falantyr.3290:

Sky.9347:

You guys are all talking about the point system, which I used to do too – but you’re missing the point.

It isn’t about the points, it’s about the objectives themselves. Scaling the point system means the night capper is only 10k ahead instead of 50k ahead – BUT they still have fully upgraded and heavily sieged keeps in YOUR territory, massive stockpiles of supply, and long range siege pointed at your spawn zone.

Doesn’t matter what the point score is, you still have to find a way to get your first tower back.

I think you are right that the snowballing of objective based advantages is a problem. You are wrong though, to downplay the scores. The scores make the game pointless after getting nightcapped once.

That’s true, and as I’ve said before the score does matter because it generates (andkitten interest in the game.

But the score is really a symptom of the problem.

You guys are all talking about the point system, which I used to do too – but you’re missing the point.

It isn’t about the points, it’s about the objectives themselves. Scaling the point system means the night capper is only 10k ahead instead of 50k ahead – BUT they still have fully upgraded and heavily sieged keeps in YOUR territory, massive stockpiles of supply, and long range siege pointed at your spawn zone.

Doesn’t matter what the point score is, you still have to find a way to get your first tower back.

Namu.5712:

A possible fix to make people feel better is lowering the amount allowed in wvwvw from all sides at night.

so if wvwvw during the day is 500v500v500
then after a certain point at night it would lower the cap to like 200v200v200….. but even then servers that only have like 40 on at 3am are going to suffer regardless.

Because if you make it to low then you make people mad with ques. Currently on HoD there is no que at night between like 9pm-4amish, early morning there is however.

This is a bad idea, in my opinion. No solution should be one that restricts access to WvW during some predetermined portion of the day.

Weavols.8973:

The problem isn’t what happens on the scoreboard. The problem is what happens with upgrades. I don’t think anyone really cares what the numbers say, they care about having fortified walls and cannons shooting them a hundred feet out of the spawn. The losing side has a fairly steep uphill battle to even get a toehold on a map. When that toehold gets “night capped” back and upgraded so we have to face the same superior fortifications, with superior buffs, and superior numbers of defenders night after night.. it gets old fast.

The scoring system isn’t the problem. People not having fun because the winning side is handed all the tools to “win harder” is what’s killing WvW.

This is exactly right, with one very small addendum.

The score matters a little bit, because it tends to generate interest in WvW.

But as you said, what really matters is staring at a keep filled to the brim with supplies, Fortified Walls, Reinforced Doors, Cannons, Oil, Guards, Vendors, half of the dominating servers map population catapulting and trebbing your spawn point.

Your only real choice when facing that is to go fight over one of the side supply camps until you can SOMEHOW manage to get enough people carrying supplies to start laying siege to the very first tower outside of your spawn zone… because face it, you’re never going to hold anything else until you have that at least.

Samusen,

Can you have a ram or catapult continuously fire at the door, even when it’s down?

Wraithhowl,

I think having a small threshold of supply might be okay, but towers are already so easy to take that giving the attackers any further advantage should be balanced with at least equal advantages to defenders.

And that is a good point Namu…

" the top servers cant even 2v1 HoD…"

Mike Ferguson said that they designed W3 around the concept of having 3 servers, so that 2 servers could always team up and keep a more powerful 3rd server in check – thus maintaining the competitiveness of the match.

This week is proof that there is a flaw that interferes with that design.

ET and SBI are two very competent W3 servers. I mean, we have high participation, coordination, and sink massive resources into our W3 games. We BOTH went full force at HoD while only basically maintaining borders with one another, and due to the population mis match at off hours, HoD will still win this match.

Therefore, 2 servers can not keep 1 server in check, and it has nothing to do with the quality of any server. Population mis-matches mean that there is NO WAY HoD will ever lose. Their off-hours player base is so large and active that there are literally (seemingly) not enough players with a similar schedule on any other NA server, maybe not even combined.

There is no systemic change that can fix or even help this situation. This must be solved with server rules. Combine them all, or forcibly break them up, or whatever.

Until ANet is willing to do that, this won’t change.

They really need to offer guilds the opportunity to keep their influence during transfers, even if only temporarily.

Namu.5712:

Well thats true Sam im not implying a alliance or truce. Just a mutal hate and bloodlust towards HoD. Which is good made this week fun lol.

The QQ about the night capping is getting old though, just as much part of WvW as the primetime shennanigans going on everyday. If they had a strong night time force I bet they wouldn’t complain.

Listen, we all know that “night capping” is a part of the game. But it is frustrating from our perspective.

HoD is the only NA server that doesn’t have any issue with it, because they are the only NA server with a high participation rate from non-NA primetime players.

Every W3 matchup is primarily decided on these once-a-day population mismatches. It’s unavoidable, and will result in 2 week matches being a landslide in points victory. Hell, 1 week matches can’t be balanced properly because of it.

The only solution to this would be to integrate all EU and NA servers into a single large server pool.

Otherwise, they should simply do away with the score totals. Because when you spend 20 hours on a weekend fighting tooth and nail to secure and defend your position you feel awesome. You invested money and time into your position. Then you get home Monday and you’re bottom of the pile, have no objectives controlled, and can not get a cohesive force together because most people already gave up.

And then you start to push back the dominant server (ie: whoever has the most off hours W3 players), and you consider… “how much money/time am I going to invest in this map THIS time?”… and you just figure you’ll save it for next Friday when you actually have a chance to see your investment pay off.

Please don’t misunderstand my post for QQ – I still play W3 and love every moment of it. But I also understand the frustration of being night capped. It isn’t something worth getting upset about, but it does induce a long sigh.

And for anyone who doesn’t play on HoD (or any server that completely dominates via off hours capping), we all know that the best part of the W3 match is the first weekend after reset. Once the week starts, it’s meh at best – not really worth putting any gold into (or trying to win), but still fun for a few epic fights.

Surely you can see how that has the MAJORITY of W3 players rather frustrated?

This is really a non-issue.

Change your tactics. Don’t rush through as soon as the wall falls, or immediately pushback anyone who is trying to repair.

If you guys want DAoC, go play DAoC. Seems simple enough…?

I’d like to see that too.

Namu.5712:

10 bucks says no one comments about my screen shots which show the glaring truth about the tag teaming going on lol….. not saying its intentional just saying its happening and its put HoD on the big D during primetime because we literally cant do anything else while being swarmed by both servers.’

Which is just fine, part of the game, but stop acting like your server is better then someone elses server when your playing dirty and you know it.

Playing dirty? How’s that?

You guys have got to calm down a bit.

HoD has some excellent players, and very organized guilds. That’s the truth. HoD can not stand against two other T1 servers. That’s also truth. HoD has a greater participation rate 24/7 than any other NA server. That’s truth too.

No need to badmouth anyone here. W3 scores will NEVER tell you anything about SKILL. The only way to judge a guild’s general W3 skill is to fight against them, or with them.

R E F L H E X.8413:

Dware.4259:

Close down transfers to winning servers.

done.

This doesn’t solve spying.

In response to that other guy : just because there is occasional player fights over a building doesn’t mean it is pvp.

PvP should be a very highly coordinated battle.

^ Not going to see that in wvw or spvp, at all, don’t care who youa re or what you say. Not happening.

World vs world is too large for pvp, it is WORLD vs WORLD not Players vs Players. You can literally watch a whole team of possibly 30 die by the other 30 using one spell each that hits multiple targets, that really isn’t pvp, yo, and if you are going to tell me one person can meatshield a full team of thirty for one spell at the same time each, I will not believe anything you say after that either, therefore aoe type spells/attacks will take down multiple targets with the same method.For spvp running and capping with the occasional 5 people following you until they catch you to 5v1 you isn’t really teamplay or pvp either.

You know what, I don’t think you’ve played much W3 at all.

You are deprived, man! Get in queue and give it a solid 12 hours of playtime before you judge it.

I don’t understand this mentality that if it isn’t arena style combat it isn’t PvP at all. You do know that PvP simply means: player vs. player, right?

Hype.9361:

HoD only does well in off hours because they have a lot of foreigners getting free caps. That’s why they lose during primetime and comeback when everyone is asleep or at work / school.

Hey now let’s be fair.

They don’t “lose during primetime”. Seriously, the HoD primetime guys are good. You give them an hour without constant pressure, and they take their keep back and begin pushing you out of their land quickly.

But they also aren’t better than everyone else.

Vehementi.1094:

This weekend we saw what the match ups look like when all 3 servers have people logged in.

Now that HoD’s pesky opponents have logged out, some other stuff is happening.

And it was glorious. This last weekend I played basically from the moment the match restarted until Sunday night with a few breaks for sleeping. It was bad for me, but it was oh so good!

Vexus.5423:

Can we get a points update / screenshot?

^ +1

Mighty fine of you drake. Takes a big man to step back and reconsider things, in my opinion.

Honestly, considering how much off-time coverage HoD has I am thinking that ET and SBI maybe should both focus on HoD the entire week. Doubt it would happen though.

@ Karicus:

hehe… okay well maybe I was wrong for calling you out specifically, but I’ve been seeing a lot of the mentality my first post pushed back against lately on the boards.

I too enjoy watching the points and trends… but I almost wish they would find some other way to build the bonuses.

drake.2135:

Sky.9347:

drake.2135:

Casia.4281:

drake.2135:

Rishara.1684:

See, the thing is we always knew HoD was the bigger threat, regardless of where their placement was over the weekend. We knew that once the week started and most of us on SBI are at work or whatever, that HoD would be able to gain points back quickly. That was why we were focusing so heavily on HoD. We knew that ET wasn’t really a threat at all. There was never an alliance between us. We just wanted to suppress as many HoD points as we could. I don’t understand why people think that this was unfair or bad tactics… So, we should actually just let HoD steamroll us to focus on ET?

If it’s anything that I’ve learned from playing any game where you have more than one opponent, is that it’s a horrible idea to focus on only one of them.

Sure Henge of Denravi is a pretty big threat, but if Eredon Terrace was really that non-threatening, then why didn’t you go to capture all of their areas, alongside Henge’s areas (if possible)? It might have been more beneficial that way.

Really? Focus is exactly what you do when facing more then one opponent. Once one is down and out, its now a 1v1, instead of a 2v1.

So, basically, WvW is all about disabling the toughest enemy through any means necessary, and then having a [fair] fight against the third?

As much as I want to believe that, there’s simply no way that WvW was designed for that kind of play-style, since even when you turn your attention to the third, the tougher enemy will just come right back almost immediately, straight for you (while, again, ignoring the third).

Actually, based on a developer blog post – WvW was specifically designed with three servers so that 2 could gang up on 1. SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR THAT.

First off Sky, of the two posts that I made on this thread, I’ve not said anything about two worlds teaming up on the third, merely that one world tends to focus most, if not all, of their forces on one of the other worlds.

Secondly, I’d appreciate it if you linked that blog, as simply talking about it doesn’t mean that I’ve read it (or if I did, remember it).

I know I whipped out the CAPSLOCK BABY – OHHH YAAAA (sorry), but I really didn’t mean to be inflammatory.

Here is a clip from the blog, and the link:

“Including three forces in world vs. world acts as an excellent balancing factor, preventing one team from growing too powerful and ruining the competitive balance of the game. Two teams can gang up to counter a more dominant third team, a dynamic that simply isn’t possible with only two opposing factions.”

http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-ferguson-on-guild-wars-2-world-vs-world

SBI and ET both went into this match knowing that HoD was the 800 pound gorilla in the room. It appears that we both (SBI and ET) spent our weekend beating that gorilla and hoping he would be weak enough that he’d lose (or at least that we would win) over the course of the weekdays, when HoD is strongest.

Selo.1250:

80% of the people went to do RvR to get realmranks and realmabilites, anything else is just BS.

Character progression, that is what drives people to keep on playing.
WvW has nothing of that, its quite meanigless fighting week after with week with no rewards, exactly as i knew it would be, and what was said during the beta stage.

ANet did really think that sPvP would be the kind ov PvP most people would want to do, thats quite hillarious.

Hopefully ANet will reevaluate WvW and bring something more rewarding into the game.
People can say “just do it for fun” all they want, but it wont hold.
Ive been in WAY to many mmos to know this by now.

*Realm ranks you could actually see on your enemy
*Realmabilites for character progression
*Skills based on sieging
*A more thrilling way to defend/take relics/orbs
*Keeps with guards that actually had your guilds name if you claimed it, and gave your guild warnings when it was under attack.
*Realmpoints for your guild holding a keep as long as possible
*Join when you want, no queues, hundred of player at same area.

WvW has alot of things going for it, but it can become so much better.

I think W3 would only benefit from more middle and long term goals.

HOWEVER – I do not think they should offer any mechanical or systemic benefit.

ANet could and should continue to add cosmetic things such as titles, skins, dyes, mini pets, or whatever else.

Karicus,

Due to the nature of W3, you will never – ever – be able to use it as proof of “better players”, or “higher skill”.

Never. Not even when you win.

If you want that kind of achievement, you should start looking at tournament matches.

EDIT: Even comparing the “skill” of HoD vs. Kaenig is not possible. W3 is not a measurement of player skill, at all.

Commanders serve their purpose for the battlefield. The icon is perfect for getting random people to rally on.

Not everyone should be following a commander – but until you understand why and what else you should be doing, you should be following a commander.

drake.2135:

Casia.4281:

drake.2135:

Rishara.1684:

See, the thing is we always knew HoD was the bigger threat, regardless of where their placement was over the weekend. We knew that once the week started and most of us on SBI are at work or whatever, that HoD would be able to gain points back quickly. That was why we were focusing so heavily on HoD. We knew that ET wasn’t really a threat at all. There was never an alliance between us. We just wanted to suppress as many HoD points as we could. I don’t understand why people think that this was unfair or bad tactics… So, we should actually just let HoD steamroll us to focus on ET?

If it’s anything that I’ve learned from playing any game where you have more than one opponent, is that it’s a horrible idea to focus on only one of them.

Sure Henge of Denravi is a pretty big threat, but if Eredon Terrace was really that non-threatening, then why didn’t you go to capture all of their areas, alongside Henge’s areas (if possible)? It might have been more beneficial that way.

Really? Focus is exactly what you do when facing more then one opponent. Once one is down and out, its now a 1v1, instead of a 2v1.

So, basically, WvW is all about disabling the toughest enemy through any means necessary, and then having a [fair] fight against the third?

As much as I want to believe that, there’s simply no way that WvW was designed for that kind of play-style, since even when you turn your attention to the third, the tougher enemy will just come right back almost immediately, straight for you (while, again, ignoring the third).

Actually, based on a developer blog post – WvW was specifically designed with three servers so that 2 could gang up on 1. SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR THAT.

Von.2790:

[TLDR]

• Former DAoC player continually disappointed by MMO’s
• No real reason to WvW
• No Community Building
• Too hard to kill people.
• GW2 has potential

Just using this list so it will be easier to respond.

No real reason to WvW:

I disagree here, but it’s likely because I am not a gear chaser. I WvW for the sake of doing it. Also, there is the whole “allied and enemy guilds” thing, but I will get to that later. There are rewards in WvW.

No community building:

Again, I disagree here. So much is anonymous – but GUILD tags aren’t. Also the fact that for those of us who W3 often, we spend a lot of time with the same core group and we get to know one another.

Too hard to kill people:

Once more we disagree. There are certain burst builds that kill quickly and die quickly. Otherwise it seems just right. I prefer my fights to last longer than 10 seconds.

GW2 has potential:

Finally, common ground!

R E F L H E X.8413:

WvW is not pvp. It is WvW.

Capture the flag isn’t really pvp either, and neither is capture the points. They are just multiplayer pve games where killing people sometimes happens.

Arenas is pvp it sets 4 players against 4 players and the whole objective of it is to “Kill the opposing team”.

Same goes for GvG.

I’ve already discussed the different types of coordination involved, and it mainly has to do with combat teamplay/coordination, that will not be seen outside of these two formats.

You are so wrong that it literally hurts my eyes to read your posts.

WvW is mostly PvP, with some PvE required.
sPvP is PvP.
Arenas are PvP.

I get that you want to play the “when I was young we REALLY had to PvP for our lunch… you kids nowadays just PvE and pretend it’s PvP” card, but really you sound foolish.

Free transfers DO give the ability for anyone to come and spy, or sabotage, or just clog the queue.
Free transfers ARE still necessary, because people are still trying to settle in and choose a server – both PvP and PvE centric players.

I think it’s just something we’re going to have to deal with. I personally hope that ANet announces “48 hours remaining before all transfers become pay-based only”, because I have a feeling at the last minute a lot of people and/or guilds are going to transfer and sit on their new planned server.

Nucleotides.6928:

I do think it’s complete kitten that you can treb from SM and Garrison completely uncontested. Yes, I know the trick to getting some of them down but unless you can see the base you cannot target them.

That’s part of the awesomeness of owning SM.

just want to say…

/ignore NameHere works beautifully.

Hello all!

I am planning to get started on a Mesmer for a special tactics guild group. I am looking for portals, stealth, and support skills. For damage I figure I will basically rely on conditions and escape skills.

So I have only ever played Mesmer during the BWE, and then only in sPvP. I am here to ask for any general advice/discussion about this playstyle and things I might want or need to check out.

I am not interested in OP/UP discussion, or even really specific builds. Rather just traits, combos, etc. to keep an eye on and perhaps theorycraft with while I am at work.

Has anyone had success with this type of Mesmer? Again, please bear in mind my only purpose for this Mesmer is W3 small group special tactics.

Thanks!

Some background: I do not have a single level 80, and I gain 85% of all XP through W3. (unless I’m exploring while waiting in the queue)

My opinion: I do not want any more boosts in W3. I can tell the difference between myself and geared 80s, and I like it that way. It gives me something to aspire too (since I level so slowly).

Binafus.8153:

Sky.9347:

Binafus.8153:

Rodarin.6058:

Bottomline is ‘skill’ will be shown in a shjort period

LOL your skill has already been shown, if you can not win by yourself get someone to help you.

Been the best fight so far, HOD been fighting two sides for the weekend.

We’ve all been fighting two sides… it’s 1v1v1.

Sure you have, wink wink

Sure, we have. We have not put as much focus on ET, because they are not as dangerous as HoD. But it hasn’t been all unicorns and lollipops over there. Whether you choose to see it or not, ET and SBI have been fighting regularly since reset.

Rodarin.6058:

Binafus.8153:

Rodarin.6058:

Bottomline is ‘skill’ will be shown in a shjort period

LOL your skill has already been shown, if you can not win by yourself get someone to help you.

Been the best fight so far, HOD been fighting two sides for the weekend.

LMAO oh really? I guess SBI hasnt been fighting 2 sides either? And a bunch of exploits to boot.

SBI doesnt have a Queue right now and neither does ET for any map. THAT is when HoD ‘skill’ really shines through, when they double up the other two teams combined for most of the work week days.

Doesnt matter, WvW is totally meaningless anyway, probably why Anet is in no hurry to ‘fix’ it. It is what it is supposed to be, a time sink for people willing to keep playing the game after all other ‘content’ has been exhausted.

I would say that out of the 50 or so world wide servers maybe 8 are active beyond anything that could be described as pedestrian. That isnt a very good number and shows just how much of a failure it is right now.

The only thing that is ‘fun’ is the action, and if you took everyone in there and placed them in any random MMO out there you would get the same type of action you get now. Except you wouldnt have crashes, or invisible enemies, or exploits, or queues. PEOPLE make the PvP. Thats why the PvP sucks in this game in most cases because the people arent there. Other than maybe the first couple days of a reset.

I don’t think the PvP sucks. I don’t think WvWvW sucks, or is irrelevant. I don’t have this kind of fun in other MMOs. I see ANet working on W3, I just don’t see them making quick knee-jerk reactions (thank God).

I honestly think that as the WoW expansion comes out and those people leave, and as longer matches and less frequent server changes both become reality, and as guilds move about to find their place in the world… W3 will eventually calm down to a happy stable medium.

The only things I really want to see ANet do right now are the following:

1) Fix the queue. It’s obvious that we need more information as players, and the queue programming itself has some bugs.

2) Fix the bugs/cheats/rendering issues inside of W3.

3) Allow guilds to take their Influence (or at least some part thereof) with them when they transfer – even if only temporarily. I think this would go a long way to helping even out the server W3 participation rates.

Binafus.8153:

Rodarin.6058:

Bottomline is ‘skill’ will be shown in a shjort period

LOL your skill has already been shown, if you can not win by yourself get someone to help you.

Been the best fight so far, HOD been fighting two sides for the weekend.

We’ve all been fighting two sides… it’s 1v1v1.

emoleas,

I just wanted to say that this weekend of W3 has been the most fun I’ve had playing video games in at least a decade. Although I disagreed with you shelling AP all morning/afternoon Saturday, you did it with class and your thinking definitely had merit.

Great write-up. Stay classy, SBI.