Guild Wars 2

Without quoting someone specific – many people say this comes down to organization and/or participation.

That’s true, but I don’t think you realize the situation.

After the snowball gets going, and the two losing servers get camped in their spawn area, the following things are generally true:

1) Because they have no supply, they can not construct siege equipment.
2) Because the dominator has ALL supply, they fully upgrade all objectives and start building siege to further clamp down on the spawn camp. Their keeps and castles fill up with supply, so if they needed in the future they would have massive stores.
3) Because the dominator has such map control, they have full participation and queues.
4) Because the losers have such a pitiful fight, they quit playing altogether.

All of these things combined means that after one or two days of dominance the game is basically over. There is no way to get back into the fight, because you can’t even break their siege lines without supply of your own. There is no way to sneak out and capture anything that would make a difference – or that you wouldn’t lose moments later.

Several of us tried to warn that without some sort of mechanic to prevent these landslides, WvW 1 week or 2 week matches would become this way.

Some servers will have multiple hour queues and full map control, while some servers have instant queues and are spawn camped (or fighting for their last keep).

Yea, organization and blah blah – all sounds great in theory. In reality, even one 6 or 8 hour period of dominance pretty much ends the game altogether. Doesn’t matter what time of day it happens, once it does there is very little chance to get back in the fight.

Kelo… I really, 100% believe the castle lord being moved is a temporary measure until the map itself can be fixed.

Moving spawn points and capture points would be easy… changing the properties of maps with permanent floors might take more time.

They won’t allow the top 2/3rds of SM Castle to be pointless for long, I think.

I don’t know about that. Often a squad of enemies will camp the WvW jumping puzzles, which enables their server to get the free siege prints and prevents other servers from getting the free siege prints.

This seems like a tactical resource starvation decision to me. Annoying, but totally legit.

very carefully

You can get close and do it alone, sometimes. More reasonably you can have other players chain their abilities together to provide a few seconds time for everyone to get a few hits in.

You can sometimes hit it once or twice and then back up and heal.

Why a whole new thread for this? Why can’t we just keep it all in one massive thread, which is much more likely to get attention?

Lucardes.3725:

I fully agree on the fun factor, I just worry for the future and look at wvw if it’s able to continually sustain that fun factor. I assume with how I’m liking it, yes I can still see myself playing for the long haul. Although I do envision some will find it getting old in the long run unless there’s “Vanity/unique” armor/weapons they can win uniquely for placing in the top 3 for example. Something along that like is what I’m suggesting. It’s better to have such reward system then not to. At the same time it’s balanced since it’s all looks/vanity is what it is.

Guilds are not anonymous in WvWvW, and therefore they will begin to earn reputations and rivalries.

I think it’s going to work out… but if not ANet can always adjust later.

I don’t remember what keep we were in, but the gate had just got tore down by the enemy. We were actually holding a front line on the inside of the gate, and I (Staff/Hammer Guardian) managed to put up a wall of light from the staff (forgot the name), and put my 10 supply into repairing the gate. Since we had finally eliminated their rams and had backup arriving with fresh supplies, we held off the push and consolidated our keep.

It was amazing, and I felt like a “Class A” kitten for being that first hammer swing that rebuilt the gate.

Dallas.2536:

Sky.9347:

Dallas.2536:

its worse with sPvP. you get no rewards except for some new skins which you cant take outside of sPvP, a finisher you cant take outside of sPvP, and a title that really no one cares about.

at least in WvW you can improve your character still :P

“no rewards” except these three different kind of rewards… ?

no tangible rewards. i can be the greatest pvper in the game, but as soon as i leave the mists i am back to being a scruffy looking level 2 charr with only a title to show for it.

The Mists and normal PvE zones are completely separate. You go to the mists and get instant access to everything you’ll need to be 100% on par with everyone else. Why should your earnings there have any impact on the normal world, when nothing you’ve done or not done in the normal world has any impact there?

Lucardes.3725:

Dallas.2536:

its worse with sPvP. you get no rewards except for some new skins which you cant take outside of sPvP, a finisher you cant take outside of sPvP, and a title that really no one cares about.

at least in WvW you can improve your character still :P

Good analysis on the sPvP, if only I could move that skin from sPvP then great otherwise meh. I mean don’t get me wrong I love pvp and do it for the love but not ganna lie to myself as with every game if there’s no long-term/unique reward system in wvw after lvl 80 and all upgrades what’s the point then? Def. need some motivation or a unique reward/skin per weekly or monthly cycle or what have you

I think one thing you might be missing is the fact that the Guild progress system ties directly to WvW.

Okay so you probably know Guilds can earn influence and use that influence (and time) to provide themselves with interesting little perks and benefits.

Did you also know that Guilds can claim objectives in WvW, and thus earn more influence over time for these upgrades?

Kromica.2831:

Creslin.1758:

Not sure what you’re talking about…what cheating have you noticed?

Teleporting around and one hitting people, one hitting walls things like this

Is there a video of this happening?

Dallas.2536:

its worse with sPvP. you get no rewards except for some new skins which you cant take outside of sPvP, a finisher you cant take outside of sPvP, and a title that really no one cares about.

at least in WvW you can improve your character still :P

“no rewards” except these three different kind of rewards… ?

Lucardes.3725:

I’m fine with the server/lock balance happening but when such thing happens, my assumption and my experiences on world vs world is if there’s no sufficient reward in place it will eventually die down. I know ArenaNet knows it and just wanted to hear that there’s some consideration or revisit on rewards/unique rewards/events system for wvw besides getting the small 1% boosts and the saying for “Hey were #1”

I disagree with you, and furthermore I think rewards for being the highest ranked server is a very bad idea. It will further worsen the WvWvW queue times, and may even cause certain servers to drastically drop participation rates.

Look at me posting in a useless troll thread!

It sure does smell funny in here.

You guys who are missing combos are really missing out on the most important aspect of combat in GW2.

The process is pretty simple… lay down a Combo Field, and then use a Combo Finisher in it or through it. The result is based on what type of field + what type of finisher.

Being able to self-combo gives abilities to your build that you don’t see on a character sheet.

I have one character of each race, and I admit Sylvari were my least favorite before creation.

So I gave my guy the mushroom head, painted it red, and named him Redcap Sky. Very original, subtle, and deep… I know.

teviko.6049:

Sky.9347:

I’m almost always on the side of “learn to play with the system you’re in”, instead of asking for changes and such. In fact, I believe GW2 is probably the best MMO I have ever played – since Ultima Online.

But I think I agree with this thread. Quickness seemed strange to me when I first saw it, and when I first tried it I was shocked to see the amount of damage I could dump with it.

I do not think it should be removed from the game, though. I think it needs to be adjusted. Perhaps it should always have a significant drawback, such as Frenzy (50% increased damage taken).

Whatever the case… I am just posting here to say that I agree that Quickness in it’s current state doesn’t feel right.

Quickness was already nerfed once. The time was reduced from 6s to 4s.

The downside to quickness is that the player cannot heal, recieve heals, or even recieve the benefits from any type of invulnerability (like ranger Signet of Earth-traited). When the class using quickness is utilizing it, they are open to any damage for 4secs without the ability to heal, and for thieves, I would assume the ability to stealth as well.

Understand quickness!

Each skill that provides it has it’s own drawback though. The warrior version makes them take increased damage, the ranger version makes them unable to heal, the thief version drains endurance and stops regen of endurance.

They don’t all get all of those at the same time. The elite versions of quickness have no drawbacks (which is okay, since they are elites and all).

I’m not sure where you’re getting the rest of those drawbacks. I just pulled information from the official wiki.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickness

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So if I read your paragraph correctly…

you are saying that the “pistol whip combo” is so powerful that everyone should SAVE a cooldown in order to avoid it. So powerful that if they are blowing cooldowns on things that AREN’T quickness related they are making a bad decision.

…Really?

Distaste.4801:

The bottom line to this whole argument is that if ANY class can kill you in less than 5 seconds it needs fixed. I want tactical skilled gameplay and insta-gib builds are anything but. The entire idea that if you don’t dodge 1 attack you die is stupid, plain and simple. Dodge should be used to gain the upper hand in a battle of attrition. You dodge the big hitting attacks enough then you’re going to win the battle. If you don’t dodge then you take damage. The one that can mitigate the most damage through dodging, CC, healing, etc while damaging the opponent wins.

Well said.

I’m almost always on the side of “learn to play with the system you’re in”, instead of asking for changes and such. In fact, I believe GW2 is probably the best MMO I have ever played – since Ultima Online.

But I think I agree with this thread. Quickness seemed strange to me when I first saw it, and when I first tried it I was shocked to see the amount of damage I could dump with it.

I do not think it should be removed from the game, though. I think it needs to be adjusted. Perhaps it should always have a significant drawback, such as Frenzy (50% increased damage taken).

Whatever the case… I am just posting here to say that I agree that Quickness in it’s current state doesn’t feel right.

Pirhana.8935:

what keeps people sticking with that character so they dont make an alt or even quit.

I guess I don’t understand why this part is a problem…

MAX PAYMENT.6174:

My guardian seems to have high surviveability.
Is there a build for warriors that makes them feel indestructible at the cost of lower damage?

I don’t have specifics for you, but I am CERTAIN there are several.

I make my own builds, and the way I would approach this idea would be to decide on my two weapon sets first. Personally, I think Mace/Shield and Hammer would be the most “defensive” type weapons.

So then I would fully explore these weapon sets. Figure out what combos you can perform by yourself – what combo fields you can lay. Which boons and/or conditions you will be juggling with those weapon sets. ALSO – maybe most importantly – figure out what you’re missing. Will you need access to Swiftness (very very important in WvW), or Cripple?

Next, I would work out my traits and utilities at the same time. Maybe do traits first, or utility skills first, but either way make sure they have some synergy and mesh well with my weapon sets (which are really the cornerstone of the build).

When all of that is done, I like to choose Sigils and Runes in this way:

Sigil – should compliment my weapon set’s primary theme or focus.
Runes – should help balance my character. If I built around high damage, I will pick runes that offer a little bit of defense. If I built around defense, I might pick runes that slightly touch something defensive (say boon duration if I am using a lot of boons) but are primarily offensive.

Just my $0.02, maybe a Warrior expert will come along with the perfect WvW defensive build for you. I tend to feel much more comfortable designing my own builds, though.

In sPvP everyone has equal gear and trait points, and every skill unlocked. As you’ve experienced.

In WvWvW you use your current gear + traits + unlocked skills, but your HP and basic stats are boosted to level 80. So you basically become the equivalent of a level 80 character wearing lower level gear, and not spending all of his trait points.

But, WvWvW also provides you with XP rewards. I spent levels 4-19 only doing WvW with my Guardian.

It is a combination of three factors, in my opinion.

1) Point system rewards capturing far more than defending.
2) Defending is an expensive endeavor. It takes time, and money to defend a keep.
3) Currently the battles are only 1 day long – and thus that makes time consuming expensive endeavors, like defense, which result in less personal reward (since long term rewards dont really matter yet) much more attractive.

Waage.2047:

yes there are some who do that and they need to be punished.

Some times it is only perception, but that is not to say that it dose not happen. If you see some one doing kitten like that and you can prove it with screen shoots then get evidence and report.

Report… what? You can’t report someone for making a strategic decision. There is nothing “wrong” with choosing to temporarily ally with someone in order to destroy someone else.

What have they done that needs to be “punished”? This is a 3 way fight, which inherently allows for things like this to happen. And what’s more… it’s sometimes pretty clever.

The big argument against it is that you don’t want people farming XP in the sPvP browser.

The only motivation someone has to go to sPvP is for PvP. There is zero other reason to ever step foot in sPvP.

I think it should stay that way.

Viserion.5130:

Sigh… sore losers, always crying for restrictions. WvWvW is fine. Alliances are part of the game. Night capping is part of the game. It’s free. Why do you want to sterilize it?

^

MAX PAYMENT.6174:

I applogize for not being more clear on the role I want to have in WvWvW. I have a level 30 engineer and a level 20 guardian.
I had a hard time finding a decent build and toolbar setup for engineer to feel effective at sieging and defending. I think it would be worth looking back into that class since I did drop it because I didn’t fully understand it.
I made guardian hoping to feel more useful, but it’s lack of range is disappointing. I feel like I serve no purpose in anything other than battles out in the world.
I’m tempted to turn to warrior for their ranged and melds weapons.

Ah okay. Well yes, Guardian isn’t fantastic at range.

I play a Warrior in WvW too sometimes. Their ranged options are much more powerful, especially if you build everything around the Longbow and it’s multiple burns. Rifle is good for single target DPS, Longbow is good for AoE DPS.

And what’s nice with a warrior is the ability to swap to a very defensive melee set (say… Mace/Shield) to protect yourself when the enemy closes in on you. Also, they have some pretty good group support options with shouts and banners – if you learn the banner skills by heart you can really change the battle quickly and fluidly.

As has been said, it really depends on what you want to do. All professions work in WvW, but they do have different specialties.

Mainly, I play a Guardian. I go with Staff/Hammer and I keep groups alive. I rarely directly kill anyone, but I love running with a small team (or even better – a Guild group) and filling in all the gaps + providing multiple Light Fields for cleansing, regen, heals, and retaliation.

It’s all about buffs for me. I am a walking, buffing, brick wall.

Psy.6153:

I totally get what youre saying Grim, but its not only overseas players who WvW in these hours. A lot of people work evening shifts at work, play until 4am/5am, then sleep until mid day. Even night shift workers on their days off end up playing through the night or on a morning when they get home from work.

Its unfair i agree, would be great to have more regional servers than the current system.

I like this idea. It would solve your “problem”, and also decrease que times for WvW. Make servers have smaller population caps, more regional, and thus decreased connectivity for those far outside of the region.

Grimaldi.8532:

why is a lockout the worst solution, substantiate your criticism please. Offer solutions!

It is the worst solution because you’ve now arbitrarily limited the WvW map schedule to a certain time of the day. Not everyone plays at the same time, and why should WvW revolve around your schedule?

I can’t offer solutions because I’m not convinced this is a problem. Video evidence or something?

Grimaldi.8532:

that is not a solution, If it is an american server or a EU server treat it as such. The purpose of such a designation is to notify the gaming community of appropriate servers to play on. Because a minority of people who choose to pick “American Servers” which it says at the top of world selection, should be allowed to ruin the game for a majority of the community?

A) Notify them is fine, ANet chose not to prevent them from doing it.
B) “minority” would imply that they don’t have a huge effect
C) my game hasn’t been ruined… but then I only play in the evenings and that comes with it’s own problems
D) WvWvW is not an e-Sport, and never will be.

tkalamba.2541:

lipidro.3964:

Felix.3028:

lipidro.3964:

As far as I’m concerned; all the siege needs a significant price increase. 6s for an arrow cart, zerg counter or not, is absolutely ludicrous for its effectiveness.

Destroy it then.

Let me hop inside a defended keep/tower to do so and I’ll certainly try.

Use a reflective shield, the arrow carts will take damage. Do it often enough and it dies.

Or… set up your own siege engine and blast the carts. They will be destroyed in SECONDS.

I am not saying I do or do not agree that the problem you listed IS a problem… but lockout is the worst possible idea for a solution.

WvWvW should be 24/7

If you swap pets, they arrive alive and ready to go. At least they did in the beta I played a ranger in.

Khaldar.7486:

I switch zones for a bit and farm there. Then I return. I farmed events all the way to 80 – chained the same events most of the time. It is easy to stay in a loop before 80. IMO…Once you get to 80, it is best to expand to loop to other zones or mine.

Wow, that doesn’t sound very fun.

scourn.6042:

as it is right now i can speak for 50 of us at least in guild who are getting bored to tears already with ganking in the exact same spot daily in a giant circle.

So… maybe don’t do that anymore?

There is a major reward though, as I said in my previous post.

Your total score from the WvWvW match provides your ENTIRE SERVER with boosts and bonuses.

Before and during the Beta, I was trying my best to not over hype the game to myself. I did that with several other releases, and they all eventually bombed.

I’ve played at least every other day since the early start, and I think by now I can honestly say…

… this game’s got chops.

A couple things…

“which is worse than all the other gear” – check out the appearance too, because a lot of times that’s the only thing that matters. You can reskin your current gear to look like whatever else you find.

Bonuses – right now the WvW maps reset once a day, but eventually they will be 2 week long fights. During those 2 weeks, your performance in WvW will provide your ENTIRE SERVER with boosts and bonuses.

Most importantly, though… WvWvW doesn’t need a point, WvWvW IS THE POINT!

drwookie.6391:

AngelofAwe.4972:

that is a HUGE problem. supporting allies give you absolutely nothing in PvP, there is no gain in it whatsoever.

Horrible horrible problem if you ask me.

Guardian has some great support skills, like wall if reflection. However, every support skill you take is one less DMG skill, and DMG is the only thing that counts towards contribution. Its a broken system if you ask me. It encourages us all to focus on high DMG glass cannon type builds.

High damage, or just some damage?

The staff has an AoE damage skill as default auto-attack. I think this works, but I’ll check closely next time I play.

I mostly WvWvW, and I play Guardian primarily.

I have found the most success with a Staff/Hammer build that utilizes Shouts for group buffs.

The staff doesn’t do a lot of damage, that’s true… but it has an aoe might buff that ends in a nice heal, and it has 2 Light Fields available. The big shiny orb (#2) does decent damage if you don’t bust it, and if you do bust it the aoe healing isn’t bad either. I find the autoattack on the staff is really nice for tagging all of the enemies for collecting loot.

When the enemy gets too close to my group, I whip out my hammer and start laying down the control and defensive buffs. I tend to feel like the guy on the battlefield that everyone rallies around during combat.

But you don’t do massive damage, for sure.

The professions here really do all have their own flavor and style. Play all three to level 10 (it doesn’t take long), and you’ll know what fits best.

Tarnished Coast is where it’s at…

I usually am “in character” if I am communicating through /say or emotes. I do not, however, currently spend a lot of time developing intricate RP situations or storylines. Instead I just play the game and allow myself to get immersed as often as possible.

Dale.5914:

Sky.9347:

Dale.5914:

HyDraLiNsK.2470:

Pong is two pixalated bars and a circle.
Pacman is a bunch of dots, a moving mouth, and a few alien things.
Mario is a dunk plumber that eats shrooms and jumps on things.
Zelda is an elven fairy that saves the world by playing musical instruments.

Four of the most talked about gaming experiences ever created. My point: “that’s all it is” never matters in games. What matters is what you make of the experience.

/thread

When you start comparing the game to Pac Man, that’s when you know you’ve lost the debate ^^

It’s not a debate, and he isn’t comparing it to PacMan.

I don’t know if you are an incredibly skillful troll, or just incredibly dense.

Yes he was. He brought up Pac Man… as well as a few other ancient games as if they are somehow relevant as a comparative factor in this day and age.

And you are the one trying to get personal, so if you want to see a troll – may wanna go take a look in a mirror

When you have to resort to personal attacks as a means to defend your position, that’s when you have lost the argument.

The point is… you can reduce any game to a simple dismissive statement such as “just a circle and two bars, that’s all it is” – even a game as complex and modern as GW2.

It isn’t helpful, and probably isn’t true.

But that’s okay. I am done with this thread. Good luck to you all in finding the perfect game for you.

Deadpoint.4751:

Sky.9347:

obviously you don’t understand how some people could create entire builds without the ability to kill anyone, just designed to protect siege machines or support groups in combat.

How are you doing this? I’ve spent hours experimenting with different builds on every profession and on every support character I build it feels like I’m letting my team down by going support. Damage looks like it is king in this game, with everything else being a footnote. I’ve been doing some number crunching trying to get a definitive answer on this, but if you can point me to some support builds I would appreciate it. Currently I’ve been playing support in WvW because I enjoy it, but going straight dps is more helpful to the team.

I only have some experience doing this with Engineer and Guardian.

I won’t get into the specifics.. but in general try to keep this in mind:

1) setting up combo fields and such is very underestimated, but very useful
2) stop looking at enemy death as a measure of success, instead look at battle lines that aren’t collapsing, sieges repelled, keeps taken, upgrades completed
3) number crunching would be VERY difficult in this case… for example, a 3 second protection buff doesn’t mean much in a 20 minute fight (even if it happens every 16 seconds) – BUT a 3 second protection buff RIGHT before a big AoE lands or something can change an entire battle
4) Look for traits that “stack” buffs and conditions. for Guardian we can make Justice (adds fire to next attack) also add might to allies, blind enemies, apply vulnerability to enemies, and REFRESH instantly when a target dies (and you dont have to be the killer)…
5) “zoom out” with your perspective. stop worrying about the direct involvement you have but rather look at the indirect involvement. As a staff guardian I do kitten for damage, but I can help a group of 10 people take virtually any objective in WvW from a larger group… I can notice the affect I have

Dale.5914:

Sky.9347:

Dale.5914:

Trent.3256:

Dale.5914:

Overall this is a pretty shallow game though. A very simplistic combat system with a somewhat appealing map system where players run around looking at new things. And that’s basically it unless you enjoy the game’s PvP.

That’s pretty much it.

If you were to step into PVP you would realize just how complex the combat system is. It goes a lot deeper than one sees at first glance. That is the beauty of the combat system. It is easy to pick up, but difficult to master. When I first looked at the traits available on my elementalist, I was quite disappointed and felt that there was only a few worth getting. Now that I am learning more about the elementalist, I realize that there are builds that can implement each and every trait and utility and they are all very viable builds. It is mind blowing just how deep the combat can be and how much different one class can feel simply due to the build.

There is nothing “mind blowing” or deep about this game’s combat. And just the fact you suggest you have to step into PvP to see it proves it.

The game is basically auto attacking with a few “panic buttons” on the side you push when you get into trouble. And that’s it.

The abilities lack variety. The durations are too short. The cool downs are too long. And there is very very little strategy to any of it. It’s a combat system meant to players who just like to leap onto the pc for a couple of hours and enjoy mindless fun from time to time – which is fine if that’s your thing. But don’t pretend this game has mindblowing depth – because it so obviously does not ^^

You sir, are dead wrong.

I understand how you could come to this conclusion, because I did at first as well. Especially the short durations and long cooldowns bothered me.

But I kept playing, and reading, and getting better. I promise you there is quite a bit of depth there. At the risk of oversimplifying it:

“autoattack with a few panic buttons” – hmm, well… uh, no. auto-cast can be put on any skill, and yes most weapons have at least 1 with no cooldown or even a chain ability. I usually have to wait just to make sure the chain finishes (and applies whatever cool buff/debuff it does on the third swing) since there are SO MANY OTHER THINGS to do.

“short durations” – generally true. this means that timing matters, a lot
“long cooldowns” – generally true (compared to some other MMOs), this means that you need to make decisions during combat that really do matter… dont waste your cooldowns

“and that’s it” – obviously you don’t know much about dodge timing… or combos (especially self-combos) and how they add an entirely new dynamic and synergy to things. obviously you don’t understand how some people could create entire builds without the ability to kill anyone, just designed to protect siege machines or support groups in combat. I won’t even get into the huge intricacies with traits and runes and sigils and such, or how weapons change entire playstyles even within a single profession

No, obviously… it’s just WoW with a dodge button.

To be honest, even WoW had a lot more complex battle system than this game does. So if you are trying to be sarcastic by calling it “WoW with a dodge button” it kinda misses the point with me.

Anyways, like I said – just the fact you have to stress PvP to point out any kind of complexity to this game’s combat system kinda proves my point. So for the sake of this argument, I’ll just omit PvP from this discussion so we can agree the game’s combat is shallow and simplistic.

Having to time a few “panic buttons” when you get stunned or your hp starts dropping is not what I would call mind blowing depth. It’s just not – and I’ll never understand why you and so many others think it takes such skill to time 3 or four abilities that all basically do the same thing just with a different graphic attached to it.

Okay, so you aren’t interested in opinions either. “omit pvp so we can agree”… well, funny thing about that is I still don’t agree with you.

But that’s ok because nothing I could say or show you would change your mind. MoP comes out soon, and I am sure it has all of the amazingly complex depth you could ever ask for.

… until the optimum rotation for each build is discovered, of course…

Snaylor.2760:

Sky.9347:

Dale.5914:

Trent.3256:

Dale.5914:

Overall this is a pretty shallow game though. A very simplistic combat system with a somewhat appealing map system where players run around looking at new things. And that’s basically it unless you enjoy the game’s PvP.

That’s pretty much it.

If you were to step into PVP you would realize just how complex the combat system is. It goes a lot deeper than one sees at first glance. That is the beauty of the combat system. It is easy to pick up, but difficult to master. When I first looked at the traits available on my elementalist, I was quite disappointed and felt that there was only a few worth getting. Now that I am learning more about the elementalist, I realize that there are builds that can implement each and every trait and utility and they are all very viable builds. It is mind blowing just how deep the combat can be and how much different one class can feel simply due to the build.

There is nothing “mind blowing” or deep about this game’s combat. And just the fact you suggest you have to step into PvP to see it proves it.

The game is basically auto attacking with a few “panic buttons” on the side you push when you get into trouble. And that’s it.

The abilities lack variety. The durations are too short. The cool downs are too long. And there is very very little strategy to any of it. It’s a combat system meant to players who just like to leap onto the pc for a couple of hours and enjoy mindless fun from time to time – which is fine if that’s your thing. But don’t pretend this game has mindblowing depth – because it so obviously does not ^^

You sir, are dead wrong.

I understand how you could come to this conclusion, because I did at first as well. Especially the short durations and long cooldowns bothered me.

But I kept playing, and reading, and getting better. I promise you there is quite a bit of depth there. At the risk of oversimplifying it:

“autoattack with a few panic buttons” – hmm, well… uh, no. auto-cast can be put on any skill, and yes most weapons have at least 1 with no cooldown or even a chain ability. I usually have to wait just to make sure the chain finishes (and applies whatever cool buff/debuff it does on the third swing) since there are SO MANY OTHER THINGS to do.

“short durations” – generally true. this means that timing matters, a lot
“long cooldowns” – generally true (compared to some other MMOs), this means that you need to make decisions during combat that really do matter… dont waste your cooldowns

“and that’s it” – obviously you don’t know much about dodge timing… or combos (especially self-combos) and how they add an entirely new dynamic and synergy to things. obviously you don’t understand how some people could create entire builds without the ability to kill anyone, just designed to protect siege machines or support groups in combat. I won’t even get into the huge intricacies with traits and runes and sigils and such, or how weapons change entire playstyles even within a single profession

No, obviously… it’s just WoW with a dodge button.

Problem is setting up a fire wall for extra burning damage doesn’t really do much, I have just as easily won fight without setting up all of that crap.

Its just WoW with a dodge button.

Really? That sucks. How about setting up an AoE Cleansing of all conditions on allies? How about an AoE Retaliation buff? How about some good AoE Stealth + Swiftness buffage?

How about being a Guardian on the front lines who knows what he is doing and can ensure my team stays clean, protected, and buffed until the moment they pry my hammer from my cold, dead hands.

ecwoodrow.7034:

Hypathia.1049:

ecwoodrow.7034:

No thanks. The siege system as it exists helps to discourage zerging. This would only turn WvW into a huge zerg fest.

I think we re playing a different game

I think only one of us knows how to play it.

how to win it, you mean

I see zergs all the time. I never see them accomplish anything lasting, or of substance.

Dale.5914:

Trent.3256:

Dale.5914:

Overall this is a pretty shallow game though. A very simplistic combat system with a somewhat appealing map system where players run around looking at new things. And that’s basically it unless you enjoy the game’s PvP.

That’s pretty much it.

If you were to step into PVP you would realize just how complex the combat system is. It goes a lot deeper than one sees at first glance. That is the beauty of the combat system. It is easy to pick up, but difficult to master. When I first looked at the traits available on my elementalist, I was quite disappointed and felt that there was only a few worth getting. Now that I am learning more about the elementalist, I realize that there are builds that can implement each and every trait and utility and they are all very viable builds. It is mind blowing just how deep the combat can be and how much different one class can feel simply due to the build.

There is nothing “mind blowing” or deep about this game’s combat. And just the fact you suggest you have to step into PvP to see it proves it.

The game is basically auto attacking with a few “panic buttons” on the side you push when you get into trouble. And that’s it.

The abilities lack variety. The durations are too short. The cool downs are too long. And there is very very little strategy to any of it. It’s a combat system meant to players who just like to leap onto the pc for a couple of hours and enjoy mindless fun from time to time – which is fine if that’s your thing. But don’t pretend this game has mindblowing depth – because it so obviously does not ^^

You sir, are dead wrong.

I understand how you could come to this conclusion, because I did at first as well. Especially the short durations and long cooldowns bothered me.

But I kept playing, and reading, and getting better. I promise you there is quite a bit of depth there. At the risk of oversimplifying it:

“autoattack with a few panic buttons” – hmm, well… uh, no. auto-cast can be put on any skill, and yes most weapons have at least 1 with no cooldown or even a chain ability. I usually have to wait just to make sure the chain finishes (and applies whatever cool buff/debuff it does on the third swing) since there are SO MANY OTHER THINGS to do.

“short durations” – generally true. this means that timing matters, a lot
“long cooldowns” – generally true (compared to some other MMOs), this means that you need to make decisions during combat that really do matter… dont waste your cooldowns

“and that’s it” – obviously you don’t know much about dodge timing… or combos (especially self-combos) and how they add an entirely new dynamic and synergy to things. obviously you don’t understand how some people could create entire builds without the ability to kill anyone, just designed to protect siege machines or support groups in combat. I won’t even get into the huge intricacies with traits and runes and sigils and such, or how weapons change entire playstyles even within a single profession

No, obviously… it’s just WoW with a dodge button.

Snaylor.2760:

Columba.9730:

Please god, no forced pve for those of us who love WvWvW. Let the pvers do dungeons to their hearts’ content but don’t ever force me to enter one.

Dark age of Camelot wrecked their game by listening to players like this guy. Ignore him, please.

If only there was some IDK, Booster system in place that could separate PvE and PvP…

You ignored my previous post, but I will mention it again here for you.

WvWvW uses PvE gear.