Guild Wars 2

dooger.2640:

Sky.9347:

Downed – You mention WvW and “high end” PvP at the same time, which is confusing to me. The only problem I have with the downed state is that it is unequal across all professions.

We run 2 groups, and will hit 20-30 people, in warhammer we used alot more movement, falling back pushing back in hard on extenders, and countless tactics. With downed system we have to move in hard burst down 10 or so, and have one group staking while other group continues bursting down people.

Being on staking duty sucks and is boring game play.

Ok, I get that. I would agree with you there.

Where I disagree, is that I see WvW and the resulting battles not as fighting for kills, but rather fighting for area control.

Downing people means they mostly stay put. Yea, Ele, Mes, Thief have some minor ability to move, but for the most part they stay still.

The game then becomes more about controlling territory than spiking down enemies. Running spike comps may be effective, but if you can’t ever push and hold ground you’ll never fully kill anyone or rez anyone. If your team is exceptional at holding their ground, the downed state becomes super-effective for you.

I like it better this way. I was never a big fan of spike strategy, I rather have territory strategy. The downed state directly incentivizes PvPers to stop focusing on kills and start focusing on position.

dooger.2640:

Hopefully these devs will listen, there is alot of good basic framework here.
If Warhammer had this framework it would be alive and well still.

It strange they hit so many good things, but missed on the most important thing a sandbox needs which is community

I’m not trying to be inflammatory here, but I really don’t understand this.

“Community” must mean different things to you and I.

What I can gather from your post, is that you view community as a group of individual allies and enemies who respect each other and enjoy fighting against one another.

From what I can gather about GW2, they seem to view community as primarily your guild (cooperative), and then secondarily your entire server (who are permanently allied, thus cooperative), finally the server vs. server with all of those guilds (whom we know by their tags), which is competitive.

So, when you say community, how can you discount these three layers of community in just the WvW game-mode alone? I mean… sPvP has it’s own community based around guilds and tournament teams. Granted, both are still in their infancy with transfers wide open and no rank system, but both are quite clearly there and ready to be built upon.

Orbs – Yea, it’s an issue. I agree.

Names – I much, MUCH prefer to see guild tags and no player names. Guild infamy is better than individual infamy, in my opinion.

Downed – You mention WvW and “high end” PvP at the same time, which is confusing to me. The only problem I have with the downed state is that it is unequal across all professions.

alcopaul.2156:

Sky.9347:

ANet could simply force players to carefully consider their team composition prior to playing, and fix anything that pops up as “too strong”.

this is destructive to the skill pool and will be a repeat of guild wars 1, which is baed.

with this mindset, some skills will be underpowered that they wont be played anymore.

Which, much like my last post said about compositions, would be the perfect red-flag to tell designers that these skills needed something.

Combine this with the red-flags they will get by watching the meta-game and team compositions, and all of a sudden they have specific places to make small modifications to add new and viable compositions to the game WITHOUT nerfing anything.

alcopaul.2156:

Sky.9347:

Autowin compositions should never exist.

Sure, autowin compositions won’t exist if everything is a mirror match, which is the final outcome of “nerfing overpowered skills because they are the autowin skills arising from the inability to customize midgame.”

I never said that. I don’t think there are any “autowin” skills right now (except maybe Moa in a 1v1 setting), and there certainly aren’t any “autowin” compositions this early in the game.

If, over the course of time, all high level teams begin running the same builds this is the perfect red-flag to tell the design team there is a problem. There should be several possible and viable team compositions.

If you allow continuous composition tweaking, the game becomes tweaking instead of playing. It’s boring, annoying, unfun to do, unfun to watch, and begins to immensely reward any team who finds a way to circumvent the system.

Azaruil.3406:

I actually have not tried the flamethrower whilst defending a gate. I am traited for grenades however so it makes a big difference. 30 in explosives with the increased range and extra nade trait makes a big difference. 50% crit chance while standing still and 60% crit chance if they are under 50% health. Add the occasional fury and 2 out of 3 nades crit for 1100 to1700 add to that the 3rd non crit-nade hit and you’re hitting each enemy for 3000 using the basic nade attack. That’s 15,000 damage per basic nade attack if 5 enemies are close to the gate. Grenade Barrage can hit from 5000-10,000 although it does have a slightly shorter range than the grenade kit attacks. These numbers could also be slightly higher with better gear and precision/crit damage food.

The only danger at that point is the enemy at the gate popping retalation. I have downed myself quite often this way, however due to the large nade range, you can get yourself up without having to worry about their aoe’s killing you.

I had a feeling that would be the case. My WvW Engineer isn’t 80 yet, so I am not fully tweaked out in killing gear.

My flamethrower love might not be the best in your situation, but I suggest giving it a shot at least! I feel like a beast when I turn away a small zerg WITH rams at our gate that is 50%. Being one of only 2 or 3 people defending, and being able to type /t gate is 50% and stable, is an awesome thing.

Either way though… yea, AoE and spam the crud out of the back of that gate. They don’t know how many people you’ve got back there.

alcopaul.2156:

Arc.9374:

If the game is properly balanced, that shouldn’t be an issue.

If it’s not properly balanced, it will be an issue, and the game will never be an eSport.

Onus is on ANet not to screw it up, in that case,

the reason that im in favor of customization mid match is to prevent the autowin build wars scenario. if the game is properly balance, the ideal outcome of build customization midmatch is to at least equalize the playing field.

Autowin compositions should never exist.

Instead of forcing players to do something that is not fun, but necessary – ANet could simply force players to carefully consider their team composition prior to playing, and fix anything that pops up as “too strong”.

Just a little note: If you place the ram at the maximum distance from the gate, catapults do not hit them.

@JohnnyRockets

Yep, it forces them to either take damage or back up. It goes both ways though, so you aren’t going to be able to get real close without dying. Catapults inside your courtyard firing at the door also provide a steady knockback & substantial damage.

@Azaruil,

Have you tried Flamethrower? I usually with toss all the condition grenades, and then swap to flamethrower. It has enough range to stay safe AND still hit rams that are close to max range away. Your gear & traits might be better than mine, but for me flamethrower does more damage in these situations.

mcl.9240:

Banono.4597:

Am I the only one who hates Reddit’s format? Makes trying to glance over things almost impossible.

Nope. I’ve always boggled at the fact that it’s so popular. It’s like mid-90’s forum design never improved, and became hugely popular. I can’t stand to use the site, even though it occasionally has good content. It’s ridiculously difficult to navigate and hard on the eyes.

Oh… my… god.

I think, for the first time ever since release, mcl and I have agreed on something right out of the gate.

I don’t understand why they don’t do these right here on their own forums. I guess maybe because Reddit is more populated? Maybe they don’t want to bring so much traffic to their forum? Not sure, but I always wonder because I also can’t stand the Reddit stuff.

30 v 5

The gate is going to come down. This is inevitable without a flank taking out the zerg.

So, three steps.

1) Stay alive at all costs. Don’t be a hero.
2) Make it as PAINFUL for them as possible. Flamethrower or AoE on the gate, catapult if you can, etc.
3) Focus on defending the choke point AFTER the gate falls. 5 defenders spread out in hard to reach places with siege (especially catapults & ballista) vs 30 attackers squeezing through a choke point is a fun fight. You will probably still lose (almost certainly), but if you are smart and ready for it you can make them pay dearly for their prize.

I think it should be disabled in tPvP during the match. Trait, Skill, and Weapon choices should not be changeable once the match starts… because that is a major part of the game itself.

However, in between rounds, all weapons/traits/skills should be up for grabs. This should be the time used by a team to adapt to the last round in whatever way they decide.

Choosing your Weapons, Traits, and Skills should be a very important and carefully discussed strategy with your team. As a viewer of eSports… I want to know the 5 builds going in, and not have to constantly keep up with 10 different players and their ever changing builds trying to “out-meta” each other. Also, it would be exciting and interesting to see them change these builds in between matches to try to “out-meta” each other. There’s got to be a limit on it though, or it will not be easy to follow for a viewer.

Save the “on the fly” switching of this stuff for sPvP (randoms), and WvW.

Engineer

I’ve played them all, and I focus on WvW more than anything else in this game.
Every single profession brings something very important to WvW. There is no profession that I could point to and say… “they are the worst for WvW”.

All that being said, in my mind no profession even comes close to what the Engineer can bring to the table.

Grenade Kit – GTAoE, Spammable, Condition & Control, super useful for keeping an offensive siege force safe from attackers on the walls

Flamethrower – The most amazing way to protect a Gate that I have ever seen. In addition, it even locates invisible zergs and is an excellent Mesmer sweeping weapon. It rocks for large group fights, and has enough control to punish small group fights that don’t focus and kill you off quickly.

Speedy Kits – Permanent swiftness for the cost of a 10 point trait. No specific weapon or utility skill wasted. No cooldowns burned. Just freakin’ fast. When I run with a zerg, I almost always have more than 1 full minute of swiftness built up at all times. A lot of times we will finish rolling over a camp or something and I still have 30 seconds left, which quickly builds back up to 1m. (cant see any duration higher than 1m on this so I dunno how big it actually gets)

These are the three main reasons, but there are so many more I could write a short book on the subject. For example, Grenades & Flamethrower both scale well with Power alone, which let’s me pursue Power/Toughness/Vitality gear and be pretty tough. (to be fair, my engineer is not level 80 so I am only basing this last piece on my observations & research)

Engineer is the absolute best WvW profession, as long as there is a healthy mix of other professions involved. It’s just amazing in WvW… there is a solution to every common problem.

Was no Wv3 for me last night, had to watch the debate.

Can somebody please post a score screen-shot?

PS – I glued a tack upside down to my B key. WvW is a lot more fun that way.

PvP should reward players with customized hair-cuts that provide bonuses to their Personality stats.

Then, they would have stat-based progression that could make them feel like they were accomplishing something, and the rest of us could laugh at their (+5 Ferocity) Mohawk.

Ottomo.4169:

Thanks sounds like My Engineer is the way to go! Seems like guardian is spec to much for support and Engineer can do it better and better damage. I love being able to run into the battle and swing away but if you run into smart players they just run away or try to kite. I just hit 80 on my guardian too and was just hoping for a better answer but its not there yet.

My advice for starting out as Engy in WvW…

1) 10 points in Tools (I think) is speedy kits. It’s good. It’s really good.
2) Grenade Kit is spammable GT-AoE that is unbelievable for clearing the walls of defenders, or taking out siege weapons sneaky-like.
3) Flamethrower goes THROUGH the gate. Wait until they drop a ram or two, and unload the flames of hell through the gate. Oh, it’s so delicious. Stack Power and fry your enemies. I have saved many a tower this way from 10-20 man offensives.
4) I take Elixir S as my last utility, because stun break + 4 seconds of invulnerability is amazing.

SpasticSpinach.6401:

@op – As a scientist irl, I poke fun at engineers at being the oompa loompa’s of science all the time…they don’t agree with me (or you) apparently.

They’re great at holding long meetings though! :p

It’s only because it takes that long to explain anything of substance to you guys.

scoobymode.1942:

HOD is going to drop down to tier 2 and be green if they get last place. Points and rankings do not matter what so ever or else HOD would have been green this match, but it is blue because it finished 2nd place the match before and if it had finished last then would have dropped to tier 2 this current match.
Going up and down tiers are about who wins and loses.
If you finish 2nd, then you will be in the same tier and stay blue, if you finish first then you move up a tier, or if you are the top tier, you stay green.
If you finish last you go down a tier and end up green……

Funny how people are still thinking points matter in how the match ups are.
Before HOD lost last match some people on our server said we would be green again if we didn’t get first, but we were blue because we got 2nd. If we had got last then of course we would be down a tier…
Hopefully people understand this now.

Points matter only for rankings, not for placing you in matches.

But… rankings are used to determine placement in matches…

Yeah, that sucks.

At least now you know what it takes to break the server…

One thing about the Orb vs. Outmanned buff:

Keep in mind that each orb needs to be a substantial boon of some kind. These orbs ARE the reason for the Borderlands maps, and if you make them something people will ignore it removes a layer of strategic consideration from the map-wide planning efforts of those involved.

What I mean to say is… Orbs must remain important enough to be a very high priority on the BL maps.

I had a long and what I would like to believe was articulate response written up here.

… alas, I just couldn’t get this clip out of my head. Here is my answer:

dooger.2640:

The pvp here is all anon, no name, nobody even knows they are fighting you.

Zones dont show kill counts, or allow warband groups, basically nothing to help build community or develop rivalries/notoriety.. anything.

Pvp is about gloating and beating people you know on other side, this is all pve keep trading cause its lacks core understanding of why people pvp.

It encourages pvers only, and thats what the game got, people going to servers to pve up their gear faster.

That is not what PvP is about to me. It seems you lack a core understanding of why people PvP.

Vixena.3821:

@Sky (reply isn’t showing up)

If ArenaNet stated that these maps are as big as they can be… I can’t really believe them at all. The RvR world in DAoC was HUGE. They were far larger than one of the maps and contained a ton of people. I don’t understand how there could be technical limitations if a game that released in 2001 could “technically” have a far larger map.

There are different ways to handle maps in MMOs.

Consider WoW. When WoW first released, it’s major claim to fame was the “persistant massive map” which didn’t use loading screens, for the most part. You could run from zone to zone without waiting at a loading screen. At the time, this was a big kittening deal.
(I am writing from memory here… it’s been a long time)

Most MMOs use zones to split up the maps. GW2 does it.

Now, I don’t know enough about software engineering to elaborate on that too much, but I do know that just because DAoC had big maps doesn’t mean it is a trivial thing to include big maps in every game that is ever released after that.

I’ll have to see if I can find this quote that I think I’ve seen.

I play all the classes, and each has a special place in my heart.

Engineer is my WvW specialist. Perma-Swiftness, Grenade Kit & Flamethrower, Power/Vit/Toughness Gear. Delicious.

I believe there are some technical limitations involved.

I can’t be sure, but I am almost certain that ANet has said these maps are as big as they can be for this game.

In either case, I think the chance of seeing larger maps is slim to none – until perhaps an expansion or something.

Guardians almost specialize in removing conditions. Signets, Shouts, Meditations, Traits, Greatsword combos… and that’s just off the top of my head.

Edewen.8304:

zerospin.8604:

Someone needs to play more WvW and get a clue, instead of making himself a laughing stock by dismissing an entirely valid and correct summary by the OP.

OP has summed the issues pretty well. I too have experiences both sides, the crushing winner, and the crushed looser. Neither was fun. ANet would be wise to acknowledge the issues summed up in the 1st post and start to actively look for solutions. I have posted a few of such solutions myself, and so did others. All ANet needs to do is read the forums, it’s all there

The OP summed up nothing. All but one complaint is based around skill and organization. Plain and simple. The ONLY valid point made was orbs. Lack or morale is not a balance issue. Not defending your supply lines is not a balance issue. There are many valid complaints about WvW from orbs to transfers. Even the people complaining about gathering and jumping puzzles have valid arguments. But arguing that it is imbalanced because someone is winning by a large amount is NOT one of them regardless of which side of the coin you are on because the MECHANICS are balanced (except orbs cmon anet).

If the mechanics are flawless, can you point to any matchup lately that ended on a close and/or contested note?

I can only seem to find matches ending with one server days and days ahead of the other two. Why is that, pray tell? Is it because their “skill and organization” is so god awful that they can’t muster the courage to even try, or is it because the scoring system currently makes any small server advantage insurmountable?

This is not fun for anyone. It is very profitable for the server spawn camping, and very expensive for those being camped. So much so, in fact, that many players just switch servers.

StevieMJH.9105:

I agree with that as well, actually. The match actually seems to be decided after the first day or two. I have never actually been in any matchup where the 2nd place team has actually caught up to win. It almost happened two matchups ago when Jade Quarry almost caught up to HoD, but the only reason that happened is because HoD literally stopped playing toward the end once they realized they had won regardless.

I heard a rumor somewhere that they were actually considering increasing the duration of matchups. That’s just a completely stupid idea. They should be a week in length tops.

However, I do have to reaffirm my stance that I don’t think there’s really any easy way to make it so that the matchups are any more balanced. If you give the losers bonuses for losing, wouldn’t they prefer losing to being in second place?

I just don’t see how a widespread problem like this can be fixed simply by giving bonuses for losing.

Sure, bonuses for losing would defeat the purpose and punish anyone who wants to win.

But, something to get players (and I’m not talking about us “hardcore” types who play it everyday and then argue about it on the forums when we can’t play it) back into the game would be fantastic.

ANet obviously considered this, because they designed an Outmanned buff. The problem is this outmanned buff doesn’t begin to cover the cost of breaking out of your spawn (in repairs, siege, and time) and so people say “eh… kitten it I’m gonna go PvE or sPvP until the reset and give it another shot”. Something here is broken, and needs to change.

I’m thinking maybe the server populations will balance out once free transfers slow down and queue times become a more regular problem. Not until then, though… too many bandwagoners.

And yes the idea is that eventually these matches will be 14 days long. That is the design intention, and eventually that will be fantastic. I feel like it shouldn’t even be considered until maybe 4 or 5 matches after the transfers are reigned in, though.

StevieMJH.9105:

Sky.9347:

StevieMJH.9105:

Translation: “Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa…”

If you lose, it doesn’t make the game inbalanced. There are obviously going to be some matchups where there isn’t as much competition as other matchups. There is an arbitrary grouping of three servers per fight, so if the fourth place was very close to the third place in score and it gets bumped down to fight a fifth place that is very far down, the fight will be a pushover.

Then, take into account the fact that 1st/2nd/3rd will not always fight. After that matchup they will fight different people, inevitably mixing in lower-tier servers with higher-tier servers. There is simply no way to fix the fact that some servers are going to get pounded sometimes. Don’t expect ANet to come from heaven above to fix it because they can’t.

In short, the way statistics works is that when you have a smaller sample size, you will get skewed results (not to mention servers like HoD where entire guilds switch servers so they can have an easier time). This happens in more than one way. There are a limited number of servers total and a limited number of servers per fight.

Take three servers, even servers at the top end, and one or two of them might not always be close enough to give a decent fight to the top one.

Except… this is the case in every matchup, and it happens every week.

The rest of your post is irrelevant, because you assume incorrectly that this lopsided situation is the exception, when in fact it is the rule.

Regardless of it being the exception or the rule, it is unavoidable. A 15% health bonus and a 150 stat bonus to the winners doesn’t turn the entire thing into one huge stompfest. And even if it did, everyone starts with an orb in the first place.

It’s like saying that Baseball is imbalanced because the Cubs haven’t won the World Series in one hundred years.

The only way to fix this problem (which isn’t even in ANet’s control) is to have a way larger Guild Wars playerbase. The more players you have, the more servers you have, the more servers you have, the more likely you are to get fair matchups.

If there were another 20 new servers filled with players, then there would be more servers at every skill level that would fight it out fairly every week. Other than that, there is no way to stop this sort of thing from happening.

I think you have a point in saying that the WvW player-base is spread out among too many servers to prevent eventual landslides in the current system.

I 100% disagree with your assertion that this is an unsolvable problem. There are a half dozen excellent possible solutions floating around here that wouldn’t “punish” anyone or remove the fact that Wv3 is inherently imbalanced.

As it stands, Wv3 is awesome for a night or two after reset… and then we all just kind of wait until the next reset. Sure, we will join a map and try to kick some kitten but it has a feeling of pointlessness about it. During the week, PvE and sPvP become far more popular than Wv3 simply because the game is over. The match can’t be won after the initial pull-ahead by the match-up titan, and what happens is both smaller servers start tearing each others eyes out while the titan continues to keep them both contained and on their heels.

This is a problem that players could solve, but it would require a consensus and sacrifice. Apparently there is a huge set of Wv3 players that are interested in neither thing.

One thing I really want to share here:

If I am just looking for a fight, I would rather go to sPvP and at least fight on an even playing field.

WvW is about massive, epic combat. Sometimes you are drastically outnumbered, and sometimes quick and creative manuevers will drop an objective in seconds. The best fights are those that are hard won, or hard lost.

These lopsided matches do two things… 1) they remove the “epic” feeling, and 2) they cause even the small scale PvP to dramatically favor the “winning team”. Neither of these things is fun, and combined they result in people giving up and finding other stuff to do.

StevieMJH.9105:

Translation: “Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa…”

If you lose, it doesn’t make the game inbalanced. There are obviously going to be some matchups where there isn’t as much competition as other matchups. There is an arbitrary grouping of three servers per fight, so if the fourth place was very close to the third place in score and it gets bumped down to fight a fifth place that is very far down, the fight will be a pushover.

Then, take into account the fact that 1st/2nd/3rd will not always fight. After that matchup they will fight different people, inevitably mixing in lower-tier servers with higher-tier servers. There is simply no way to fix the fact that some servers are going to get pounded sometimes. Don’t expect ANet to come from heaven above to fix it because they can’t.

In short, the way statistics works is that when you have a smaller sample size, you will get skewed results (not to mention servers like HoD where entire guilds switch servers so they can have an easier time). This happens in more than one way. There are a limited number of servers total and a limited number of servers per fight.

Take three servers, even servers at the top end, and one or two of them might not always be close enough to give a decent fight to the top one.

Except… this is the case in every matchup, and it happens every week.

The rest of your post is irrelevant, because you assume incorrectly that this lopsided situation is the exception, when in fact it is the rule.

Jedbacca.6297:

Wait, there’s a champion grub on the WvW maps?

Sometimes they call me that when I play my Guardian.

Had some great fights against JQ this weekend. Judging by the sheer number of JQ, I feel badly for your long-time dedicated players. Queues must suck when you’re #1.

HoD… yea. Sorry guys, I’m sure you’ll put up a good fight vs. DR and Kaineng.

I said this during the Beta, and I will say it again:

The downed state is amazingly awesome, and frustratingly kittened up.

Every class needs to have the same type of downed skills:

1 – attack, or smaller attack + condition, basically the same as it is now
2 – stun, knockback, illusion, something that can stop a stomp once, but not twice in a row
3 – something cool and profession related, I especially like the warrior one and would use that as a base model for “strength” of this one
4 – same as it is now

If this was the case, then it would make a lot more sense.

Wolfe.3097:

Sky.9347:

Teknobug.3782:

Dabu.1258:

I cant understand or how to survive against Thief, ANet try to nerf it, but doesn’t work…

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6254/gw040v.jpg (Damage)
http://imageshack.us/a/img411/7370/gw041kp.jpg (My Stats)

Really Toughness do something? or is a useless stat?

Toughness does help, but sometimes not enough, someone I know had about 900 toughness and said he took 16K damage from a hit, if he had 1600 toughness, he’d probably take 6-7K instead of 16K.

I think that 150% damage boost plus extra critical damage mods got you that 12K CnD.

And the stacks of might from popping signets.

is might stacking itself an issue tho? i mean, many classes can stack as much or more stacks of might. the game is designed with boon stacking, are thieves meant not to be able to do that as well? asking seriously here

I think might stacking in addition to the numerous other modifiers is a problem.

Personally, I don’t want to see the thief lose the ability to backstab for nasty amounts of health. I like the Assassin Signet, and backstab, and the reliance on stealth for defense. In this specific case – I think the 5-15 stacks of might could be the primary issue.

Honestly though, changing any one part of this build should bring it back down to a reasonable burst without changing the style. My impression is that the best way to do this would be through the might on signet trait – but I do not have any data to back that up.

Teknobug.3782:

Dabu.1258:

I cant understand or how to survive against Thief, ANet try to nerf it, but doesn’t work…

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6254/gw040v.jpg (Damage)
http://imageshack.us/a/img411/7370/gw041kp.jpg (My Stats)

Really Toughness do something? or is a useless stat?

Toughness does help, but sometimes not enough, someone I know had about 900 toughness and said he took 16K damage from a hit, if he had 1600 toughness, he’d probably take 6-7K instead of 16K.

I think that 150% damage boost plus extra critical damage mods got you that 12K CnD.

And the stacks of might from popping signets.

I level all of my characters through WvW, so this is from the perspective of someone who has thus far gone from level 4 – 65 on one guy, and 2-various 20s and 30s on every other profession.

My advice is three fold:

1) Play normal PvE long enough to open all of your weapon skills. This should get you to level 4 or 5.
2) For a while, your best bet in combat will be ranged options. Until you feel more tough, focus on supporting your team and causing chaos in their team from afar.
3) The most important thing a low level player can do in WvW is focus on SUPPLY. Protect supply yaks, repair towers/keeps, stay on lookout duty, and communicate to the team by specifying LOCATION, NUMBER, INTENTION. Don’t say “OMG DG UNDER ATTACK!?!?!111”, say “14 HoD @ DG, setting up siege, we have 2 people defending” and let everyone analyze that on their own.

The higher level you get, the faster you’ll level. If you only want to focus on gaining XP as fast as possible, find a commander (the blue dorito on the map) and follow the “zerg” for profit and glory. You will be less useful than if you focused on supply & intel, but you will gain more individual reward.

EDIT: To add to what someone said earlier – always wear the highest quality gear possible. Take time to visit the vendors if you need too, to make sure the coin keeps flowing. An arrow cart dropped by a level 2 is the SAME as one dropped by a level 80, so if you can afford it go ahead and buy them – and learn to carefully place them where they will do the most good!

Ren.6351:

Okay yeah, I just wanted to say that we are all equal, or at should have been anyway. I do agree with your final statement but… Currently aside from completely revamping servers like by creating a few Oceanic servers with region lock I can’t think of another solution. But even that has its flaws as what.. we’d only be able to make only a few servers on that end.

Yes, it is a simple problem without any simple solution.

My favorite idea is to eliminate the NA and EU designations, and close a few of the smallest servers. The whole world should be on integrated servers, which will help solve this problem in a major way without changing the game at all.

Wolfe.3097:

besides ive said a million times on this forum already, that specific backstab build needs nerfed, the the nerf needs to be on things like assassins signet, and some specific traits, not on backstab itself, that will just hurt all the playres who arent cheesing the game.

on a side note, i honestly dont like mug, as its “free” damage as in, you cant avoid it really.

I agree that this specific build (which uses the signet + might stacks + 100% crit from stealth + such) should be toned down a bit. One hit kills aren’t fun. You should still have the option, as a sneaky and fully glass thief, to put a serious hurt on someone in a hurry… but it should be sporting and leave the opponent with a chance at fighting back even at the huge disadvantage losing half your health entails.

Keep in mind though… even this nasty build can’t outright kill everyone. Hopefully ANet is careful not to make it unplayable.

In my opinion, the best solution is to look at the combination of traits that causes this one attack (when well set up, which really isn’t as difficult as some of you are making it sound) to be absurd, and find an elegant way of nerfing their synergy. Something that doesn’t neuter the thief, but stops nearly instant kills from a distance, and while stealthed.

How is it a grind? There is nothing you need at any rank. If you really want some certain skin, then you could grind for it… but that’s your choice.

It is not obligatory.

@Ren:

Yes I see what you’re saying, but take a step back for a second. As it stands right now, for any NA server, 1 Oceanic/Asian/European player is worth how many NA players?

Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that I and I alone represented a server. Doesn’t matter which one, let’s just imagine that I could make all of the decisions for that server. (Yes, I realize we are already in the realm of the ridiculous… that’s part of the point)

And so I am trying to put together a WvW team to rise to the top and become a T1 or T2 competitor. Let’s say that I have “applicants”, so we don’t have to discuss HOW I am supposed to take players away from my competition.

Of these applicants… NA players are basically useless to me, where as Oceanics are vital not because they are excellent strategists or good players – but because of where they live in the world. If I am a mid range server, simply taking a couple active “off-hours” guilds from another server can almost instantly swap our ladder positions. Currently the NA ladder is primarily dictated by your off-hours coverage.

NA players on NA servers =/= Oceanic players on NA servers

I agree that all players should be equal. Right now, the only thing that really matters in the NA ladder is how many non-NA players you have on your server.

Now… before some people go nuts… yes, I know it isn’t strictly NA and Oceanic and it is more based on an individuals schedule than geographical location. Yes, I know servers that lack NA population suffer too – but that is the same problem reversed.

I would never want to see any “solution” that caused occassional imbalances to dissapear, or prevent some players from fully experiencing WvW. I do however want to see some kind of solution to help equalize the situation. I think around the clock coverage should still be important, just not this important.

The most important part of WvW should be organization, strategy, and coherence. Not who has the largest share of a very small subset of the population.

Forums seem broken again.

shalmont.2539:

Hsulf.9370:

I actually think another week or two of silence would’ve been more appropriate.

I’m not annoyed with the post, and I see the pressure the community has put on the devs for releasing this post, but I don’t believe this is the blog post they wanted to put on the forums.

They have a lot of stuff they are fixing, not just spvp bugs but pve bugs, wvwvw bugs etc, and obviously implementing the pvp aspects it taking longer than expected. They’re just not handling the demands of the community very well.

wait what? PRESSURE? lol for something that should have been out since release? they promised an e-sport, people came to this game cause of it, not because of their radddddddd raiding system and pve options, most of the pvpers went back to wow or whatever other games they played, and the ones of us that remained with high hopes that it was just overlooked and they would get back on their job, were seriously let down by the blog post…. another week? for a blog post that took 3? lol you sir must be an under cover employee.

Hahaha, that’s funny. You said PvPers went back to WoW. Good one.

They never promised you an eSport level game on the day of release.

nerva.7940:

Sky.9347:

Enokitake.1742:

- no new modes
- no new maps
- no leaderboards
- no observer mode

You’re not alone. This disappointed me so much. I don’t want point cap, and honestly, I don’t enjoy it. I want team deathmatch from GW1 back. If point-cap is permanent GW2 pvp style, I’ll be highly disappointed.

Leaderboards and Spectator support are on the docket to be addressed – they told you that.
Modes & Maps will have to wait a while, because they are focused on Conquest right now. The reason is (and again, they TOLD you this) because they want a game mode that will be easy to spectate, commentate, and watch. Deathmatch is none of those things.

thanks captain obvious. we know theyre addressing this. the disappointing part is (by the sound of the blog) they havent even started working on it. and it’s not being prioritized.

Oh I see. You wanted it right NOW.

This is new and innovative! I don’t think I’ve seen any suggestions like this one since the game was released.

How did you get so creative?!

Balidore.2790:

Sky.9347:

Balidore.2790:

Sky.9347:

Balidore.2790:

Sky.9347:

Balidore.2790:

I like the OP idea. I just don’t see ‘cool looking stuff,’ as actual time worthy character progression.

What would be, then?

Well, people don’t like my answer. lol. but I’ll say it anyway I guess…

Get points based off of: Kills, Supply used (both building and repairs), Siege placed, Healing done. Balance the amount gained between all things.

If you have 50 people kill 1 guy, the amount gained is diminished. If you kill 50 people with 1 guy (unlikely, lol) you get a larger amount of points.

If you die alot, you’re worth a less amounts of points (this is to keep people from farming points off newer players and friends).

Doing the average point worthy task, is worth about 10-35 points.

These points, can either be traded in for w3 badges, for exotic gear, prolly 2-3k points would be enough for an average 1 piece of gear.

Or, you can save these points, and after about 10k or so, get a small ability buff. Not a new ability, Not added permanent points. But a buffed ability of some sort.
For example:

Shadow Refuge (for those who don’t know, this utility skill heals and stealth in an AoE effect).
Spend 10k points, and now Shadow Refuge heals for a little more. Or maybe stealths you for another second… etc.

Something small, but nice to have. Not easy to get, and not game breaking, but people want it.

You’re right, I don’t like it… lol.

I stand opposed to any mechanical advantage given to senior players over less senior players, outside of simple player skill & knowledge.

My side is… If someone can’t overcome a 50 extra healing… Then they weren’t that skilled to begin with.

Sure, that might be a valid thing to say.

But think about it the other way. If you have an extra 50 healing, how can you ever truly brag about winning or being skilled.

I would rather we have a level playing field, and wins or losses hinge on skill instead of possibly a smattering of little stat boosts which may or may not have contributed anything.

I played DAoC for 6 yrs man. On my 4th yr I rerolled. Went from RR1 to RR7 mostly solo.

The reason you’re not gonna convince any of the DAoC vets, that what you’re saying is true, is because we’ve all done it. Killing a rr12 wasn’t much different than killing a rr5. Those small gains get easily overcome with skill.

So to answer your question…. yes, I’ve spent yrs being the guy on the other side, lol. It’s not a big deal. Hardly noticeable watching someone heal for 1050 rather than 1000. Crit 3% more often… etc.

Well, then why does it matter? Were those little boosts really that important?

It seems to me, as someone who never got into DAoC much, that the most important things you guys mention is the Realm Rank. RR7, RR10, RR12… those are really what matters to you now all these years later, and I would wager those are really what mattered to you back then.

So let’s make both of us happy. Implement all the cosmetic/aesthetic/reputation type rewards you want AND maintain the level playing field.

What if the exact same RR system was here, but instead of boosts you got access to cosmetic things NOBODY else could. Obvious things. Cool things.

Ren.6351:

Though I’d probably eat alot of flame and whatnot for this, after reading a few pages of the thread and then skipping to the end, I feel that many are going about this the wrong way entirely..
To start things off I’man Oceanic player in Crystal Desert (just so you know when I do play)

Firstly, what Anet has said about Everyone’s time being equally important to them (to Anet) as we are all paying customers, regardless of our timezone. <—- This I respect and I don’t see why everyone would want to flame them down for that. The fact that your server doesn’t have players during your “night time” and you lose your “worth” isn’t really the intention of Anet I believe. It may seem that way currently but you should cut them some slack. This problem doesn’t really have an easy solution.

Those who are talking about server population in WvW buffs/debuffs should know that it won’t work out. Any kind of timezone benefit/“punishment” will result in people of that timezone complaining that the other timezones get benefits while they get “punishment” and vice versa. Like NA peak timezone remains the same while in Oceanic we get some kind of debuff though we fight against few to no one at all? That makes WvW pointless for us too, which already makes the game not fair for us in that aspect. We use up less time but its still time nonetheless in WvW, but in the end that time will become meaningless and eventually Oceanics WvWing will make minimal impact. Then it will become whomever is not on NA peak timing complaining like crazy and it goes on forever.

Adjustments to the point system based on timing also will not work as it devalues the time of other people in the timezones affected. Making other peoples time more worth it and other’s even lesser.

If you really want a “fair” system, there is really no other way about it then to be proactive and recruit these “night time” players/guilds to your server and try to fight your way through.

You spend most of this post talking about how any adjustment to the system would cause some players to worth less than others…

… and then you end it by saying the only way we can compete is searching out and recruiting this very small set of players, who are in high demand because their worth is so much higher than everyone else?

Ashanor.5319:

Problem 1: C&D interrupted by Steal (teleports you directly to your target and then you immediately hit them with C&D and stealth, which sets you up for problem 2)

Problem 2: Assassination Signet (150% damage on next attack) – Sorry, but this is too easy to abuse with Backstab and gives us Thieves a bad name.

Problem 3: Quickness effects (and this is across all classes, not just Thief) They are counter productive to balanced PvP and make it so classes that have them will end up completely balanced around them. I’m sorry, but I would much rather see Haste removed so my class can be balanced normally and not having to take Haste into consideration every time they make any changes.

Two things.

1) You are forgetting about the massive stacks of Might the thief during steps 1 and 2.
2) I personally like quickness when it is very small and trait or % proc based. I do not like it when it is an on-demand utility. Either way, I don’t think it should be outright removed from the game.

Brunners.7251:

tarnin.1690:

Brunners.7251:

tarnin.1690:

Stiv.1820:

Swiftly.2385:

Stiv, Some great ideas here. But I am betting it won’t happen. Wv3 feels like an ANet afterthought. Really to bad too, because for myself and scores of others it is THE GW2 endgame.

It’s endgame for me as well. I’ve read around that Anet was surprised at how popular it is. It that’s true, maybe it will get some focus in the future.

Sadly I think that will come too late and many of us will be off to other games.

Well it’s not like you’re paying monthly so if you leave, it doesn’t really matter…you can always just..you know…come back when they’ve fixed it to your standard?

The issue there is that they will look at the much smaller numbers and will just decide to NOT do anything as it won’t be worth it. It’s a vicious circle. This game makes money on in game sales (need people playing for that) and expansions (need people playing for that too).

You’re being such a negative nancy. In fact, every time I see you’ve posted something it’s always kittening negative.

Cheer up. The games been out a month. Is it annoying this isn’t fixed yet? Sure. Is it going to get fixed? Yep, it is. Patience is a virtue and while I understand WvW is really annoying to play right now (only if you follow the zerg, in my experience) it’s not going to be that way for ages and you should just go play something else if you’re really that frustrated with it.

Judging by the things I’ve seen you say you must REALLY hate GW2. So, why are you still here?

Yeah, it’s not cool it’s broken. Yeah it’ll get fixed. Just shh and let them do their job. What, do you just think they’re all sat twiddling their thumbs about this?

Plus, I think you’re wrong. I think if they do something and they fix it even if there isn’t many people playing at that time (I doubt it’ll ever get THAT bad), word of mouth will spread and do you know what will happen? “Hey, I’ve totally still got that game, let’s just log on and see if it’s fixed. Oh it totally is, awesome let’s play!”

ACTUALLY… only Justice, Resolve, and Courage are virtues in GW2.

;-)

Balidore.2790:

Sky.9347:

Balidore.2790:

Sky.9347:

Balidore.2790:

I like the OP idea. I just don’t see ‘cool looking stuff,’ as actual time worthy character progression.

What would be, then?

Well, people don’t like my answer. lol. but I’ll say it anyway I guess…

Get points based off of: Kills, Supply used (both building and repairs), Siege placed, Healing done. Balance the amount gained between all things.

If you have 50 people kill 1 guy, the amount gained is diminished. If you kill 50 people with 1 guy (unlikely, lol) you get a larger amount of points.

If you die alot, you’re worth a less amounts of points (this is to keep people from farming points off newer players and friends).

Doing the average point worthy task, is worth about 10-35 points.

These points, can either be traded in for w3 badges, for exotic gear, prolly 2-3k points would be enough for an average 1 piece of gear.

Or, you can save these points, and after about 10k or so, get a small ability buff. Not a new ability, Not added permanent points. But a buffed ability of some sort.
For example:

Shadow Refuge (for those who don’t know, this utility skill heals and stealth in an AoE effect).
Spend 10k points, and now Shadow Refuge heals for a little more. Or maybe stealths you for another second… etc.

Something small, but nice to have. Not easy to get, and not game breaking, but people want it.

You’re right, I don’t like it… lol.

I stand opposed to any mechanical advantage given to senior players over less senior players, outside of simple player skill & knowledge.

My side is… If someone can’t overcome a 50 extra healing… Then they weren’t that skilled to begin with.

Sure, that might be a valid thing to say.

But think about it the other way. If you have an extra 50 healing, how can you ever truly brag about winning or being skilled.

I would rather we have a level playing field, and wins or losses hinge on skill instead of possibly a smattering of little stat boosts which may or may not have contributed anything.