Guild Wars 2

Gronba.8621:

Kimbald.2697:

Sennar.2309:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it,
that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.
Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet.

you know what the worst part of this is for me?

The simple fact that this idea must have been ready before launch.
No way they put this whole thing together in between haloween and Christmas…

It’s not even that they cave in to the ‘WoW crowd’ now, they must have known all along.

I don’t entirely agree with you on that, I believe the progression in gear is a knee jerk reaction – its soooo poorly done that they can’t have been planning this for more than a month. Let me elaborate:
1) According to the blog the rings can only be acquired through the fractals – had they had this ready from the get-go there would other sources as well, especially for WvW since the stat increase says f… you to those who don’t want to run the fractals

2) They would have known the backlash from the community – they advertised another game than what we are currently getting and I see no real attempt at damage control what so ever…They would have prepared for damage control from the get go if they had planned this for a long time

3) The way the rings work – there is no longer a “real” upgrade slot – that seems silly, I personally think it’s because they haven’t yet added the code for two upgrade slots (1 regular 1 infusion") if they had the code for two upgrade slots I don’t see the point in kittening those specs that are more all-round compared to those who are more focused.

And furthermore -

They are adding RINGS (which have no in game 3d model)
and BACK (which were probably originally exotic models, since there are very very few back items)

What is amazing to me is that there is clearly a sub-set of the gaming population who wants 100% horizontal progression for a MMORPG.

We want a gear cap and level cap that remain the same through the life of the game.

We want to have FUN, not be enticed to WORK HARD.

We have a lot of money, and have been playing games a long time.
We are tolerant of mistakes and bugs, and we are patient enough to give you time to get your stuff fixed and fully prepare for new content releases.
We don’t tear through your content and then complain.
We want to build an awesome community.
We want to stick with one game for a very long time, without any sort of power creep.

And nobody wants to make a game for us? WE HAVE MONEY, please take our money and give us a product that we want to purchase. Yes, we fully understand that we aren’t the largest subset of the population… but we are also not able to find what we want in ANY OTHER CONTEMPORARY MMO.

Arena Net promised us a game that we really wanted. We promised them loyalty and financial support.

Sadly, it now seems as though we have been disenfranchised. I hope you are competitive for that highly fickle group of “dedicated players” that have an entire genre of games to choose from.

Sennar.2309:

Kimbald.2697:

You have the gear stats progression other games have.

Than you have the cosmetic ‘progression’ or incentives GW2 has, as an alternative.

What puzzles me is that when the cosmetic incentives proved a bit too weak, they couldn’t come up with anything else except falling back to a minor form of stats progression.

Lack of creativity is odd, coming from a company making the most creative game designs in MMO land…

Agree, i just see in the future that people who cry for raids in suggestion complete this fractal items in short time and will cry on forum again.
Bad choice arenanet, you turn your back at Gw1 fans for Wow fans.

Raids are another possibility.

Introduce raids for all I care. Just don’t change the maximum stat gear. Can’t raids be fun with Exotic gear? Maybe make them instanced, scalable combinations of dungeons and dynamic events only for level 80s in any quantity. Make them have very low % drop rates for amazing skins based on the number of people you bring.

That would be excellent, horizontal progression.

Kimbald.2697:

You have the gear stats progression other games have.

Than you have the cosmetic ‘progression’ or incentives GW2 has, as an alternative.

What puzzles me is that when the cosmetic incentives proved a bit too weak, they couldn’t come up with anything else except falling back to a minor form of stats progression.

Lack of creativity is odd, coming from a company making the most creative game designs in MMO land…

They never released a content update with cosmetic incentives. Never. Not once.

Halloween event stuff doesn’t count, because those are short term limited availability skins.

They could have added more skins, skills, animations, emotes, titles, achievements, or even unique Exotic items with special infusion slots for future dungeon specific progression system.

Instead, they took this FIRST content patch and introduced “gear progression”.

“As we watch Guild Wars 2 mature in its Live environment, we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.” We designed the process of getting Legendary gear to be a long term goal, but players were ready to start on that path much sooner than we expected and were becoming frustrated with a lack of personal progression. Our desire is to create a game that is more inclusive for hardcore and casual players alike, but we don’t want to overlook the basic need for players to feel like they are progressing and growing even after hitting max level. Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later.”
- Linsey Murdock

This has been bothering me too.

First of all – I take issue with how you use the term “dedicated players” to mean those who consume content at a rate MUCH higher than you expected. That isn’t dedication.

Second of all – Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion. Say what? When has ANet ever released an expansion that adds item progression?

Thirdly – “basic need” is not correct. I have a basic need for food and warmth. There is no “basic need” for an artificially inflated set of gear to work towards so that I always feel as if I have a goal to pursue that will result in the increased power of a video game character. In fact, I don’t even have a non-basic need for such a thing. While we’re at it… I don’t even have a desire for it, much less a need at all.

Hunterdan.4921:

Ganzo.5079:

Hunterdan.4921:

tkalamba.2541:

Jairyn.6913:

tkalamba.2541:

Sennar.2309:

Can we have an official answhere?I think that at this points guys, the game don’t come back to their phylosophy.Why you are here only to delete post like mine before and don’t give us a real answhere?

Read this http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

Full breakdown in new mechanics

So, grinding.

It’s not like grinding wasn’t present in this game…. people grinded for their exotics, dungeon gear etc…..

The grinding statements made by Anet were mostly in reference to a necessary grinding through levels to get to an “end game”, but people like to take it out of context.

There’s also a lot of people in here making the false assumption that you need to run the new dungeon to receive ascended gear. Not true.

“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. "

If you’re not interested in running a “grindy” dungeon, don’t.

there are real issues of miscommunication by the company, and they arent clearing at all, and this can go inb only one direction, worse, and worse.

1)they dont clear if the ascendend tier is the last tier in terms of stats, or if with future content\expansion they are going to increase item stats and level cap too.

2)they dont clear how infusion work, we only know that provide as sideeffect agony resistance

3)someone of us (me included) dont understand why release this new tier, update by update, when one of their statement was: “WHEN ITS READY”… and this tier its not ready!

i think that as customer, i have the right to have some clear information.
I dont like to act like a kitten… but i dont like to be fooled too.

I’m with you Ganzo. I greatly desire information. A typically transparent staff has been rather mum on the issue. I feel this is likely because they want to trickle information through news outlets. Or, they may be required to keep silent since numerous news outlets are releasing information on the new content as we speak. I’ve no idea.

Until I’m shown otherwise, I will probably keep the mindset that exotic gear, with it’s wider range of customization (And possible greater upgrades coming along with the content) will prove to be on par, or better than ascended items in instances not specifically designed for the ascended gear.

Is this speculation? Of course. We’re all likely incorrect on details. But at this point I refuse to believe that a development studio would throw out an entire foundation of gear, an upgrade customization system, and their stated principles to add 3 pieces of gear that grant an “8% stat increase for people who desire a progressive loot system.” I’m not buying it until I see it.

I feel this most of this negativity stems purely from conjecture spewed by doomsayers that lack a full picture.

I wish that were true, even if it is convoluted.

“Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items. All Legendary items going forward will be of Ascended power. "

- Linsey Murdock

Mala.3861:

Keelin.5781:

tkalamba.2541:

Please read this before anyone continues their rampant speculation

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

This will explain the dungeon in full. You get 5 relics per Fractal, 3 fractals before an increase in difficulty. Relics are used to purchase your gear, so it things look alot less random than people thought.

So assuming that a fractal takes, in the best case, 15 minutes to complete as they wrote:
Those items cost 1.350 relics.
15 min = 5 relics
1.350 / 5 = 270 (Fractals)
270 * 15 (minutes) = 4050 minutes = 67.5 hours
So 67.5 hours of nonstop fractals for one item.
We have 12 equipment slots NOT including weapons.
810 hours to get items for all 12 slots.
Let’s assume that one day is defined as 12 hours.
And we’re back to 67.5. That is 67.5 days of non-stop dungeons to get all of your equipment this way.
Truly, there’s no grinding in GW2.

So horribly disappointing. Like being offerec a huge plate of warm cookies (the patch) with a huge, nasty long hair (ascended gear) lying right in the middle of it.

Note: Lying IS the word I meant to use even though laying is grammatically correct.. it just seemed so right in this case.

I would remove the hair, and eat the cookies.

I still have a faint sliver of hope ANet does that with Lost Shores.

Keelin.5781:

tkalamba.2541:

Please read this before anyone continues their rampant speculation

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/guides/basics/complete-guide-fractals-mists#.UKT2QkeP4Po.reddit

This will explain the dungeon in full. You get 5 relics per Fractal, 3 fractals before an increase in difficulty. Relics are used to purchase your gear, so it things look alot less random than people thought.

So assuming that a fractal takes, in the best case, 15 minutes to complete as they wrote:
Those items cost 1.350 relics.
15 min = 5 relics
1.350 / 5 = 270 (Fractals)
270 * 15 (minutes) = 4050 minutes = 67.5 hours
So 67.5 hours of nonstop fractals for one item.
We have 12 equipment slots NOT including weapons.
810 hours to get items for all 12 slots.
Let’s assume that one day is defined as 12 hours.
And we’re back to 67.5. That is 67.5 days of non-stop dungeons to get all of your equipment this way.
Truly, there’s no grinding in GW2.

Let’s keep in mind those costs were for Exotic quality gear that has built in upgrades instead of slots.

Does anyone think Ascended gear will be the same cost?

Sennar.2309:

Drunken Mad King.8193:

Sennar.2309:

Can we have an official answhere?I think that at this points guys, the game don’t come back to their phylosophy.Why you are here only to delete post like mine before and don’t give us a real answhere?

They aren’t going to come on here and speak about it. They are just going to jam this system down the throats of their customer base and see the effect on it’s customer base and revenue stream. If it’s too negative of an effect they will back track.

Don’t expect much from them as far as communication and honestly don’t believe much that comes from them. They haven’t been upfront about this and I doubt they ever will.

No they are fraud people.In all of this years if you see blog post, interview etc no one tell that they will introduce this kitten.If i saw that they will do one day, i will not buy Gw2.

Honest to God – I never thought this of the ANet team.

I’ve followed this game since before BWE # 1, and while changes have been made I never lost trust in their team. They adhered to the stated design philosophy, and in my opinion they released an amazing game. I have never enjoyed a game like this since Ultima Online.

It had bugs and balance issues, but I honestly don’t care. It had hackers and glitches, and I don’t care.

I never once badmouthed their team, and I even said “okay, I was wrong on that – much respect to you guys ANet”. Check my post history, I have nothing to hide.

But this time it’s different. I don’t trust many game companies, but I trusted this one.

I don’t even think I will go back to GW1 after this. This may seem all chicken little and overly dramatic to some of you guys… but you have to understand there are no other options for a game built on horizontal progression. This was it, and now it is gone.

It matters to me.

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

For those who say this isn’t gated or a treadmill. Please follow along.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now. Ascended gear is finally available in a full set. A lot of people (probably not most) have achieved their full sets, and are happily plodding along. It was released in a trickle so the grind wasn’t too bad…

Now, they want to release a new, challenging dungeon and map.

Do they balance it around a player in full Exotic gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be much easier for those in Ascended gear. They will complain that it was too easy.

Or, do they balance it around a player in full Ascended gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be impossible for anyone who doesn’t have Ascended gear. New players, slow players, non-dungeon crawlers, crafters, PvPers, explorers. Oh, but this is when they will allow other paths to Ascended gear.

And… what is it they are going to reward for this new dungeon 6 months out? Will they be rewarding only Ascended gear with the exact same stats? That didn’t work with Exotics… why would it now work with Ascended?

I was planning to play this game for the next 5 years or more. I own four accounts, all with slot upgrades and bank upgrades. My main account (which I play on personally) has 1 of each profession working their way to 80, and gathering multiple sets of gear to match different playstyles.
This is a moving goal-post, and I now have no idea what it will take to “finish” any of my characters.

I do not want a never ending sense of progression.
I want a finite sense of completion.
AND THEN – I want to just have a good time with the game, and the community.

You missed the whole progressive part of the dungeons that pretty much say you dont need the new gear…. but as you repeat the content with your group it gets harder and harder till you do need it.

This lets casual players that dont like getting gear do the content and have fun with the challenge.

Then the progressive players that like to gear up can keep grinding it until its so hard they cant go any further until they get the ascend gears.

Why can’t you comprimise is the question now. You still get the game you were advertised… your not required to get anything to do anything, its all doable. They have simply added an option for different player types to do the same exact content but just hard mode basically.

Except this gear will be used in WvW and general PvE content such as DE.

I don’t like dungeons, I like WvW, sPvP, and DE very rarely.

And more importantly.. you missed the very first idea in my post.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now

Yes, I get that THIS dungeon in THIS update is doable with Exotics. I mean, you can’t get to the highest end of rewards with them, but you can start.
But what about the NEXT dungeon in the NEXT update? That is the crux of my post and I don’t think you read any of it.

So if people with ascended gear were scaled down to exotic level upon entry into WvW you would have nothing to complain about correct?

Probably not. I wouldn’t be happy, but depending on how it was implemented I might be tolerant.

I would still be very concerned about the future of the game, because a lot of people (including my family) prefer PvE and don’t have the time or energy to chase gear around.

I would prefer that Exotics remain the top of the line, and “progression” dungeons are designed around a mechanic that has no affect on any other part of the game AND allows for players to catch up easily and quickly at a later time.

Xpiher.5209:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

For those who say this isn’t gated or a treadmill. Please follow along.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now. Ascended gear is finally available in a full set. A lot of people (probably not most) have achieved their full sets, and are happily plodding along. It was released in a trickle so the grind wasn’t too bad…

Now, they want to release a new, challenging dungeon and map.

Do they balance it around a player in full Exotic gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be much easier for those in Ascended gear. They will complain that it was too easy.

Or, do they balance it around a player in full Ascended gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be impossible for anyone who doesn’t have Ascended gear. New players, slow players, non-dungeon crawlers, crafters, PvPers, explorers. Oh, but this is when they will allow other paths to Ascended gear.

And… what is it they are going to reward for this new dungeon 6 months out? Will they be rewarding only Ascended gear with the exact same stats? That didn’t work with Exotics… why would it now work with Ascended?

I was planning to play this game for the next 5 years or more. I own four accounts, all with slot upgrades and bank upgrades. My main account (which I play on personally) has 1 of each profession working their way to 80, and gathering multiple sets of gear to match different playstyles.
This is a moving goal-post, and I now have no idea what it will take to “finish” any of my characters.

I do not want a never ending sense of progression.
I want a finite sense of completion.
AND THEN – I want to just have a good time with the game, and the community.

You missed the whole progressive part of the dungeons that pretty much say you dont need the new gear…. but as you repeat the content with your group it gets harder and harder till you do need it.

This lets casual players that dont like getting gear do the content and have fun with the challenge.

Then the progressive players that like to gear up can keep grinding it until its so hard they cant go any further until they get the ascend gears.

Why can’t you comprimise is the question now. You still get the game you were advertised… your not required to get anything to do anything, its all doable. They have simply added an option for different player types to do the same exact content but just hard mode basically.

Except this gear will be used in WvW and general PvE content such as DE.

I don’t like dungeons, I like WvW, sPvP, and DE very rarely.

And more importantly.. you missed the very first idea in my post.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now

Yes, I get that THIS dungeon in THIS update is doable with Exotics. I mean, you can’t get to the highest end of rewards with them, but you can start.
But what about the NEXT dungeon in the NEXT update? That is the crux of my post and I don’t think you read any of it.

Exactly!? Its only a treadmill if future updates past this require the previous content update to even do the content. If new content has new armor/buffs but doesn’t require more than exotics to start then THERE ISN’T AN ISSUE.

There is still an issue of this gear being used in other parts of the game outside of the “progression dungeons”.

Let’s say I am in a very WvW centric guild. Let’s say this guild cares about it’s reputation and power level.

Do you really think they are just going to say – eh, 8% doesn’t matter.

No… if a higher level of stats are available, we either work for them or we are forced to be sub-par not based on our skill or experience, but instead based on the amount of time we spend PREPARING for what it is we actually want to do.

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

For those who say this isn’t gated or a treadmill. Please follow along.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now. Ascended gear is finally available in a full set. A lot of people (probably not most) have achieved their full sets, and are happily plodding along. It was released in a trickle so the grind wasn’t too bad…

Now, they want to release a new, challenging dungeon and map.

Do they balance it around a player in full Exotic gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be much easier for those in Ascended gear. They will complain that it was too easy.

Or, do they balance it around a player in full Ascended gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be impossible for anyone who doesn’t have Ascended gear. New players, slow players, non-dungeon crawlers, crafters, PvPers, explorers. Oh, but this is when they will allow other paths to Ascended gear.

And… what is it they are going to reward for this new dungeon 6 months out? Will they be rewarding only Ascended gear with the exact same stats? That didn’t work with Exotics… why would it now work with Ascended?

I was planning to play this game for the next 5 years or more. I own four accounts, all with slot upgrades and bank upgrades. My main account (which I play on personally) has 1 of each profession working their way to 80, and gathering multiple sets of gear to match different playstyles.
This is a moving goal-post, and I now have no idea what it will take to “finish” any of my characters.

I do not want a never ending sense of progression.
I want a finite sense of completion.
AND THEN – I want to just have a good time with the game, and the community.

You missed the whole progressive part of the dungeons that pretty much say you dont need the new gear…. but as you repeat the content with your group it gets harder and harder till you do need it.

This lets casual players that dont like getting gear do the content and have fun with the challenge.

Then the progressive players that like to gear up can keep grinding it until its so hard they cant go any further until they get the ascend gears.

Why can’t you comprimise is the question now. You still get the game you were advertised… your not required to get anything to do anything, its all doable. They have simply added an option for different player types to do the same exact content but just hard mode basically.

Except this gear will be used in WvW and general PvE content such as DE.

I don’t like dungeons, I like WvW, sPvP, and DE very rarely.

And more importantly.. you missed the very first idea in my post.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now

Yes, I get that THIS dungeon in THIS update is doable with Exotics. I mean, you can’t get to the highest end of rewards with them, but you can start.
But what about the NEXT dungeon in the NEXT update? That is the crux of my post and I don’t think you read any of it.

For those who say this isn’t gated or a treadmill. Please follow along.

Imagine GW2 6 months from now. Ascended gear is finally available in a full set. A lot of people (probably not most) have achieved their full sets, and are happily plodding along. It was released in a trickle so the grind wasn’t too bad…

Now, they want to release a new, challenging dungeon and map.

Do they balance it around a player in full Exotic gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be much easier for those in Ascended gear. They will complain that it was too easy.

Or, do they balance it around a player in full Ascended gear? If they do so then the dungeon will be impossible for anyone who doesn’t have Ascended gear. New players, slow players, non-dungeon crawlers, crafters, PvPers, explorers. Oh, but this is when they will allow other paths to Ascended gear.

And… what is it they are going to reward for this new dungeon 6 months out? Will they be rewarding only Ascended gear with the exact same stats? That didn’t work with Exotics… why would it now work with Ascended?

I was planning to play this game for the next 5 years or more. I own four accounts, all with slot upgrades and bank upgrades. My main account (which I play on personally) has 1 of each profession working their way to 80, and gathering multiple sets of gear to match different playstyles.
This is a moving goal-post, and I now have no idea what it will take to “finish” any of my characters.

I do not want a never ending sense of progression.
I want a finite sense of completion.
AND THEN – I want to just have a good time with the game, and the community.

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff….

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ‘tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

So now you want to not play and not be left behind in stats or gear… oh dear… C’mon if you dont play the gae for 3 months or whatnot ofc you will be left behind, thats perfectly normal and expected…

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two…. ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months….. the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”
Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of ArenaNet
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

And this is true. The game will still be fun from moment to moment. It still doesent mean u can not play for 3 months and remain at the same level as everyone else.

“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.”

Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of Arena Net
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff….

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ‘tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

So now you want to not play and not be left behind in stats or gear… oh dear… C’mon if you dont play the gae for 3 months or whatnot ofc you will be left behind, thats perfectly normal and expected…

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two…. ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months….. the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”
Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of ArenaNet
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Yea, I am not quitting. I will grind in PvE like a good little hampster so I can go back to Wv3 eventually. Not going to like doin that tho, it will be forced on me.

And also I will have to somehow figure out how I am going to come up with a couple 1000 gold so I can afford to buy legendary weapon sets. I need at least 3 to start (1 staff + 2x daggers). This is going not going to be enjoyable at all. Guess I could spend RL cash like most….but I don’t wanna…

Guys, you aren’t reading.

Though lied to already but:
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.

“Over time” means what, exactly? After the Dungeon crew has had their shot at them?

Oh, so like WoW where those at the high end of the raiding curve get access to all the new shinies, and then everyone else does once they have moved on to the next set?

There are a thousand ways to fix this.

Not sure what your implying… like at first its only available in the dungeon then everywhere else?

If thats what you meant I dont think thats the case. I think what it means is that there are several ways to get them them. And more will become available over time…. because they aren’t putting a whole new set in today… only 2 pieces and they are accessories not even armor or anything.

Based on what I have read so far, initially you must do dungeon runs to get Ascended gear, and Mystic Forge stuff to get Infusions.

They then said “over time” they will add it to WvW, Karma, and older content.

Why not initially? Why the delay? I am just looking for answers, Namu.

This is a major, huge deal for a lot of us. We would appreciate some straight talk from the guys who sold us this idea – this game. Based on the lack of that so far (I mean hell, this all started a couple days ago because of some very low key German interview) we can only assume they have completely lost their minds or are being shut out of the decision.

I have to look at what they have released in whole. I put all the pieces together, and it seems EXACTLY like a tiered vertical progression system based around “dungeons first”. I would LOVE to be proved wrong and put in my place by Mike O’Brien or Colin Johansen firing off a post that shows us exactly what is happening here and why.

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Yea, I am not quitting. I will grind in PvE like a good little hampster so I can go back to Wv3 eventually. Not going to like doin that tho, it will be forced on me.

And also I will have to somehow figure out how I am going to come up with a couple 1000 gold so I can afford to buy legendary weapon sets. I need at least 3 to start (1 staff + 2x daggers). This is going not going to be enjoyable at all. Guess I could spend RL cash like most….but I don’t wanna…

Guys, you aren’t reading.

Though lied to already but:
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.

“Over time” means what, exactly? After the Dungeon crew has had their shot at them?

Oh, so like WoW where those at the high end of the raiding curve get access to all the new shinies, and then everyone else does once they have moved on to the next set?

There are a thousand ways to fix this.

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff….

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ‘tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two…. ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months….. the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

I see no problem with ascended gear so long as it doesn’t become a requirement to play content. In an MMO like WoW, without the best gear (and the associated hours upon hours of grinding to get it), you cannot complete most of the end game content. So long as the end game content in GW2 can still be completed with exotic gear, making ascended gear completely optional, I would be all for it. It gives an incentive to play more for those who want it, but doesn’t force it on anyone that doesn’t.

Perhaps end game content should be scaled to exotic gear and the marginal increases from ascended and legendary would just make said content slightly easier. The key is options. Not requirements, and I think that’s where the devs are heading. So, I’m all for it.

“adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players”
- Linsey Murdock
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

teaspoon.1357:

Diva.4706:

So it looks like ArenaNet is catering for the hardcore player base, and leaving the casuals as an “under geared” group of players.

What happened to None-Gated content ? What happened to being able to just play with my friends in ANY content. Is it true there will now be zones I can not play, because I haven’t farmed the right gear?

Gear checks???

ArenaNet, this is not what you said we would be playing.

Everything in this game caters to casuals, even obtaining legendaries. We hardcore PvE’ers can’t just have this one thing? Every single aspect has to be lovey-dovey and equal?

Am I to assume that all of the people that hate getting new gear so much are still in the gear they hit 80 in? Because if you complain about “being forced” to get new gear in order to stay on par, then you must have hated it then too. Right?

And after you get “this one thing”, will you be satisfied? Will you sigh a heavy breath of relief and say… “yea, that’s the one… that’s the tier of gear I needed to make my character truly feel complete”?

Or, will instead you say “that was great, what’s NEXT? when is the new tier of gear coming out? there’s NOTHING for us to do!”?

Khallis.5708:

imagine if this was a monthly sub game? i would love to see how many would have hit the unsubscribe button over this.

i think i would have.

If they said to us… we need more revenue and therefore will be implementing a monthly subscription fee INSTEAD OF a vertical progression…

I would probably log into my account and enter a credit card number right now.

Alas, that is not the case.

E Tan.7385:

Leiloni.7951:

We need a word from an ArenaNet dev on this topic. We need some explanation as to their thoughts with Ascended gear and their future goals. We need clarification on this topic. You have an almost 100 page thread and we’re not making any progress until ArenaNet engages with us in this conversation. Please.

Lol, they are too afraid to answer since they clearly want to turn GW2 into a gear grind game. Even if they annonced that like a freaking snake.

There is nothing to answer.

They have clearly told us they listened to people and decided this was the way to go.
They abandoned their vision of end game, of gear progression, and of the whole kitten game.

I tried to play last night but I couldn’t get into it. I am waiting to hear the answer to my final question, and then I will either be back in GW2 or looking for a new game to spend my time with.

There is nothing left for them to say, except:

1) Oops, we made a mistake. We are fixing it.

or

2) Screw you guys, we want a piece of that delicious WoW pie.

or, maybe…

3) This is not the beginning of gear tiers, this is just a one time change we needed to make to fix the progression from Exotic to Legendary. We were wrong, but we promise there will never be another tier of gear better than Ascended.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Sky.9347:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

stof.9341:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

3. The added stats on Ascended gear is NOT I repeat NOT a gear treadmill. A gear treadmill is adding in gear with significantly higher stats so you can clear content that is otherwise unclearable without said gear. This is not the case here. Ascended gear is in no way required to beat anything in the game. You can see 100% of the content in the game without ever getting ascended gear. Just like you can currently see 100% of the content in the game without getting exotic gear.

I was using suboptimal gear. I grinded money to get the best gear available. A patch came in and now the best gear available isn’t exotic it’s ascended. The treadmill just sent be back to step one : I am using suboptimal gear.

This is a treadmill.

How much would you pay for an exotic ring + gem before the patch? Around 2.5-3g for an exotic 80. Now that you know there’s a plain better ring available with the only infusion slot required to make the best use out of the new dungeon. How much are you ready to pay to get a 80 exotic ring?

So what you are saying is that there was already a gear treadmill in the game, you didn’t start with exotics, you had to grind and earn better gear.

Now there is new gear and you have to do the same thing… see nothing is changing, what you are defining as a gear treadmill is already in the game, it has been since launch, which is why it is crazy to freak out about it now that we are 2 months into the game.

You do realize the difference between walking on a sidewalk, and a treadmill right?

A journey begins, and then ends.
A treadmill causes you to work without ever going anywhere.

With a set, defined gear progression – which ENDS permanently – we have a journey.
With a continuous stream of more powerful gear being added to the game, which will be required in order to continue engaging in the newest content – we have a treadmill.

I’m sort of surprised that you are too stupid to understand that difference. Or is it that you just have no real response and want to try to play gotcha with people who are truly upset by this betrayal?

I’m sorry if I personally offended you, but if you go back and read my post I actually claimed that this new set of gear is to offset the journey between Exotic and Legendary. I see absolutely no evidence that they will continue to add higher tiers of gear after this. The blog post was quite clear, the “legendary wall” as they put it, discouraged a large % of the player base from playing the game. There was this HUGE jump in progression from the amount of work to get an exotic to the amount of work to get a legendary.

They are attempting to fix this problem by the introduction of Ascended gear which they will slowly add to the game. I have seen no reference, no hint of and no evidence for this prevailing theory that they are going to be adding a new tier of gear every 2 months from this point on. It seems from what evidence that we do have that this is a 1 time thing.

To put it in terms of your analogy, the sidewalk was too short for people, they made it longer. No treadmill just a longer sidewalk.

You didn’t offend me, and I apologize for my harsh tone. This is irritating to me, because I really REALLY love this game.

If what you said is true, then I think I would be okay with that. Like I said before… people make mistakes, and we should grant them the creative freedom to correct those mistakes. My loyalty goes that far.

But, “this is just the beginning of gear progression” worries me. If this isn’t a one time change… then I am done. I won’t even post to say I am done, I will just BE done. And I will be sad about it, but it will pass. GW2 will become a memory of a long lost lover that never worked out.

I don’t care what their “reasoning” was, and I don’t care what your definition of my “loyalty” is.

I was advertised a product based on a few set development parameters, which were clearly and repeatedly expressed to anyone who would listen.

I pre-purchased, participated in the betas, defended the game from detractors, convinced friends to abandon their endless gear grinds, and even got my children and wife involved in the game. Yes, I currently own 4 accounts all with extra slots and many gem store purchases.

I have spent hundreds of dollars, and will gladly spend thousands every year, far more than I ever have in subscription based games.

But they just implemented a game changer… a deal breaker… a violation of their OWN stated design philosophy.

The last question in my mind is – will Ascended be the final tier, and this was just a one time correction to a miscalculation… or is Ascended the first of many more to come?

I absolutely will be deciding what to do with my time, and my large disposable income (which I will be spending on games and other entertainment regardless) based on the answer to that question, and that question alone.

I can forgive a mistake that needed to be corrected… I can not waste time with a company who will chase Blizzard Entertainment around until they fail, because you will NEVER beat Blizzard when it comes to “end-game content”. You just won’t.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

stof.9341:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

3. The added stats on Ascended gear is NOT I repeat NOT a gear treadmill. A gear treadmill is adding in gear with significantly higher stats so you can clear content that is otherwise unclearable without said gear. This is not the case here. Ascended gear is in no way required to beat anything in the game. You can see 100% of the content in the game without ever getting ascended gear. Just like you can currently see 100% of the content in the game without getting exotic gear.

I was using suboptimal gear. I grinded money to get the best gear available. A patch came in and now the best gear available isn’t exotic it’s ascended. The treadmill just sent be back to step one : I am using suboptimal gear.

This is a treadmill.

How much would you pay for an exotic ring + gem before the patch? Around 2.5-3g for an exotic 80. Now that you know there’s a plain better ring available with the only infusion slot required to make the best use out of the new dungeon. How much are you ready to pay to get a 80 exotic ring?

So what you are saying is that there was already a gear treadmill in the game, you didn’t start with exotics, you had to grind and earn better gear.

Now there is new gear and you have to do the same thing… see nothing is changing, what you are defining as a gear treadmill is already in the game, it has been since launch, which is why it is crazy to freak out about it now that we are 2 months into the game.

You do realize the difference between walking on a sidewalk, and a treadmill right?

A journey begins, and then ends.
A treadmill causes you to work without ever going anywhere.

With a set, defined gear progression – which ENDS permanently – we have a journey.
With a continuous stream of more powerful gear being added to the game, which will be required in order to continue engaging in the newest content – we have a treadmill.

I’m sort of surprised that you are too stupid to understand that difference. Or is it that you just have no real response and want to try to play gotcha with people who are truly upset by this betrayal?

showatt.9413:

nachtnebel.9168:

showatt.9413:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Perfectly said.

In fact I actually hope they bring out even more gears with better stat in the future, so that dungeon can grow in their difficulty as well.

Difficulty has nothing to do with gear progression. Things don’t get more difficult just because all numbers get higher.

Difficulty has a lot to do with gear progression. Things do get more difficult because numbers are higher.

If the monster stats are going up, and my stats are going up… then there is no difference.

The delta is the same, the difficulty has not changed one bit.

What DOES change is the difficulty of previous challenges. Current challenges will still be as difficult as before. Future challenges will be gated with a gear grind.

So these guys who tore through the ENTIRE kittenING GAME within a month after release…

… these guys you are choosing to court at the expense of your company reputation and loyal playerbase…

How long do you think it will take them to get this new gear?
How quickly do you plan to release stuff for them?

I really want to know if this is a one time adjustment, and Ascended Gear will be the true top tier – using infusions for carrot-chasers, or if instead Ascended Gear will be trickled out until it’s done, and followed up with another new set.

fourpoundburrito.1698:

phooka.4295:

fourpoundburrito.1698:

I really hope Ascended gear is not advantaged over normal exotics for anything other than dungeons, and especially for WvWvW. I think that will cause a lot of the dedicated WvWvW players to leave the game. The only way I think this will be the case is if the infusion upgrades don’t increase stats at all.

Sorry to rant on you specifically, this goes to everyone posting similar stuff, really.

YES, it affects WvWvW.

Once the full ascended set is out, that’ll be at least an 8% advantage in base stats. It’s been said here time and again and if you take the time to look at the posted item in the blogpost, you can see it for yourself, too.

If it makes you feel better to pretend that we don’t know yet for the next three days, feel free to ignore what’s already known. But don’t confuse others by posting here, uninformed.

I realize the gear can be used in WvWvW, but I what I am hoping is that the infusions have very dungeon specific purposes so that the gear is actually on equal terms with current superior runed / upgraded exotics. If that isn’t the case, IMHO Anet is making a big mistake by adding a new tier.

It ISN’T on equal terms.

It has been shown by ANet, Ascended gear is 8% better than Exotic Gear + Rune.

fourpoundburrito.1698:

I really hope Ascended gear is not advantaged over normal exotics for anything other than dungeons, and especially for WvWvW. I think that will cause a lot of the dedicated WvWvW players to leave the game. The only way I think this will be the case is if the infusion upgrades don’t increase stats at all.

Based on the information we have right now, Ascended gear is standard PvE gear, and thus will be used in WvW and all PvE content.

It isn’t clear, but it also seems that you can only acquire this gear through the new dungeon.

bcbully.7289:

NCsoft knows the people that are still here are hooked. No matter what they do these people will stay. The Halloween event was a test run. The people who said “stop cry” those people are here to stay.

I disagree.

I am hooked on the idea of having an MMO that is a GAME, and not a second job.
There are plenty of other things I can and will do with my time.

I am still holding out hope that someone will come along in the AN office and see this, flip out, fire somebody, and fix it with a public apology about how vision is the most important thing with any business and stuff.

McSlappy.1372:

Irrodesia.3907:

Gear grinding and dungeon grinding is not what Guild Wars 2 is about

Obviously from the most recent blog it is about gear and dungeon grinding like most of the other MMOs. Too bad their dungeons sucks compared to WoWs.

I concur.

Things have changed, and now GW2 is not special or unique.

It is simply WoW with dodging and a limited active skill selection.

I will wait until the patch releases to get full details, but right now I have suspended my participation in GW2 and all future possible releases by ArenaNet.

This is a direct betrayal of the vision you used to sell me this game. You told me there would not be any gear treadmill. You told me that was a part of GW1 you liked, and no interest whatsoever in changing. You even alluded to the fact that there would be a great subset of the gamer population that would never enjoy that type of philosophy.

And, then two months after release, you stuck your collective heads firmly up your collective kitten and abandoned that vision.

If this is a one time change, you need to make that perfectly clear.
If this is “just the beginning of gear progression”, then you will fail.

You will NEVER beat Blizzard at that game. They have multiple teams working on multiple new raids and tiers of gear at any given moment. Many have tried, ALL have failed.

And now, you will NEVER keep the loyalty of the “other” group of gamers… you know, the ones who loved GW1, who supported your company through years of GW2 development, who spend money on gems JUST because we want you to have resources.

You seem to have made your choice. We will do the same.

Thanks for a pretty cool two months. I will be watching closely to see what the kitten you are doing.

Lalabu.2097:

Sky.9347:

Lalabu.2097:

Has it been reminded that ArenaNet didn’t actually write either article? Today’s news was a sneak-peek provided by other companies…

If it was some sort of easily fixed misunderstanding, why are we on page 33 waiting for a blog post?

Because ArenaNet is not to be held responsible for something they did not write. Also all this turmoil happened the same day the news was released. We might get some news before the 15th, but having to wait until the new build is actually released is reasonable too!

They said in this very thread that there would be a blog post today explaining things.

Lalabu.2097:

Has it been reminded that ArenaNet didn’t actually write either article? Today’s news was a sneak-peek provided by other companies…

If it was some sort of easily fixed misunderstanding, why are we on page 33 waiting for a blog post?

krookie.6378:

SLuG.3085:

For what it’s worth, I think bcbully is just here to cause drama and doesn’t actually give a kitten about this game at all, so don’t take him too seriously. If you look at his posts on mmorpg.com and compare them to the posts here, I think his main goal is to cause trouble for this game. For instance, look at some of his posts in this thread http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/369231/page/1

Lol that’s just sad.

Someone said it well earlier, these players aren’t GW fans, never will be GW fans, and will drive this game into the dirt if they can.

Why, I don’t know. It’s easy to pick on those who are different, I guess.

Satans Chosen.1024:

I am fine with the new gear. I’ve never felt compelled to collect the perfect gear for PvE purposes. Although I have full exotics (ok, minus the back), I wear rares for everything other than Lupi and WvW; they are satisfactory. If the new gears give other players something to work toward, that’s great. If they somehow upset WvW, we’ll cross that bridge when we get there. Hopefully we won’t have to cross that bridge.

Here’s the kicker though…

They will work towards it. And they will get it. And it won’t take long.

And the problem still hasn’t been solved. So what then? Well, MOAR GEERZ of course.

No one can out-WoW Blizzard Entertainment.

Same zone – post Elder Dragon flyby.

Dzoni.1082:

Sky.9347:

bcbully.7289:

Dzoni.1082:

bcbully.7289:

Dzoni.1082:

Sky.9347:

bcbully.7289:

Vena.8436:

hplee.2839:

well, the same forum that QQ about the lack of stuffs to do at lvl 80 now QQ about Anet adding more stuffs to do at lvl 80. The same forum also QQ about the lack of " PROGRESSION" now QQ about Anet adding progression.

I think the introduction of the new armor type is good .This will make “I-got-exotics-already-now-i-have-no-goal-or-motivation-to-play” people stays longer.

New goal and New motivation, I like the sound of it.

The vast majority of us were in game playing because we liked no vertical climbs of pointlessness.

The thing is, every possible indicator shows that more people have left the game than are playing. The need people to play and buy from the cash shop, that is if you want an expansion. Progression helps them do this.

No, they need to get to a stable player base (one that agrees with their vision), and then determine how to operate within that revenue.

LoL doesn’t have more people than WoW playing it, but who cares because it freakin’ rocks all on it’s own.

I am sorry but i will have to disagree on the fact about LoL (if you was refering to League of Legends). LoL have had “steamrolled” WoW by the number of players. Heck it is even declared as the most played online game on the planet

Sorry for being off-topic…

You can disagree, but you are wrong WoW is the most played mmorpg. LoL is an mmo. If you don’t believe me ask Forbes. here is one article. It’s been said LoL has around 35 million players.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/08/22/concrete-data-shows-league-of-legends-number-one-in-live-streams-team-solomid-theoddone-most-popular-player/

here is another
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/07/11/riot-games-league-of-legends-officially-becomes-most-played-pc-game-in-the-world/

Well, thats what i was about to say. 35 millions outmatched WoW more than twice.

Strange how one typo can change the meaning of whole post. I am sorry, i corrected it. English is not my primary language anyway.

All good mate may have been me misreading.

It’s a good thing LoL has vertical progression, since you guys have both proven it outperformed WoW twice over – certainly this proves… oh, wait a minute…

Well, LoL DO have some kind of progression, but it is in NO way vertical. If you ask me, mechanic of LoL is perfect, which is very well approved.

I mean, you can still rock in 5-mins-ago-created account, with this week’s rotation free Ashe, with no runes equipped if you know ganking, positioning, etc. mechanics (sure the lack of masteries will make things harder but still…) and cooperating very well with team.

AND – there is a finite limit to the power a summoner can have.
After that, it’s all skins and style.

These guys only made my argument stronger by proving me wrong. ;-)

Iason Evan.3806:

I am chuckling to myself about this thread a tad. First reason, you don’t even need Exotic gear to do 99% of the content in this game. Secondly, read EXACTLY what that post said. It says NOTHING about armor rating going up. If anything I would think it will be a new rune or something that will be minor. True Power creep is NEEDING a certain base stat to even do something in a game. Sure, it will be way harder to wear blue grade gear at level 80 and do a dungeon or two in this game, but it can be done. That can’t be said for other games.

For the love of Mellagan, chill out with the Chicken Little posts and give ArenaNet some credit. We just came off of an AMAZING Halloween Event and two weeks later we are getting more awesome content for FREE and a new permanent zone, dungeon, and sPvP map. If anything I would like to give a HUGE THANK YOU to ArenaNet for this amazing game.

Yes, the rest of this patch is very exciting. I even await the balance changes that might be coming.

But this is a big deal that deserves a straight answer.

bcbully.7289:

Dzoni.1082:

bcbully.7289:

Dzoni.1082:

Sky.9347:

bcbully.7289:

Vena.8436:

hplee.2839:

well, the same forum that QQ about the lack of stuffs to do at lvl 80 now QQ about Anet adding more stuffs to do at lvl 80. The same forum also QQ about the lack of " PROGRESSION" now QQ about Anet adding progression.

I think the introduction of the new armor type is good .This will make “I-got-exotics-already-now-i-have-no-goal-or-motivation-to-play” people stays longer.

New goal and New motivation, I like the sound of it.

The vast majority of us were in game playing because we liked no vertical climbs of pointlessness.

The thing is, every possible indicator shows that more people have left the game than are playing. The need people to play and buy from the cash shop, that is if you want an expansion. Progression helps them do this.

No, they need to get to a stable player base (one that agrees with their vision), and then determine how to operate within that revenue.

LoL doesn’t have more people than WoW playing it, but who cares because it freakin’ rocks all on it’s own.

I am sorry but i will have to disagree on the fact about LoL (if you was refering to League of Legends). LoL have had “steamrolled” WoW by the number of players. Heck it is even declared as the most played online game on the planet

Sorry for being off-topic…

You can disagree, but you are wrong WoW is the most played mmorpg. LoL is an mmo. If you don’t believe me ask Forbes. here is one article. It’s been said LoL has around 35 million players.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/08/22/concrete-data-shows-league-of-legends-number-one-in-live-streams-team-solomid-theoddone-most-popular-player/

here is another
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/07/11/riot-games-league-of-legends-officially-becomes-most-played-pc-game-in-the-world/

Well, thats what i was about to say. 35 millions outmatched WoW more than twice.

Strange how one typo can change the meaning of whole post. I am sorry, i corrected it. English is not my primary language anyway.

All good mate may have been me misreading.

It’s a good thing LoL has vertical progression, since you guys have both proven it outperformed WoW twice over – certainly this proves… oh, wait a minute…

teviko.6049:

They lied when they released teh game, they lied again after release. They lied again, and again, and again…

Noticing a trend here??

I don’t remember it that way.
In fact, I can’t recall ever having lost my trust in them.

bcbully.7289:

Sky.9347:

bcbully.7289:

Vena.8436:

hplee.2839:

well, the same forum that QQ about the lack of stuffs to do at lvl 80 now QQ about Anet adding more stuffs to do at lvl 80. The same forum also QQ about the lack of " PROGRESSION" now QQ about Anet adding progression.

I think the introduction of the new armor type is good .This will make “I-got-exotics-already-now-i-have-no-goal-or-motivation-to-play” people stays longer.

New goal and New motivation, I like the sound of it.

The vast majority of us were in game playing because we liked no vertical climbs of pointlessness.

The thing is, every possible indicator shows that more people have left the game than are playing. The need people to play and buy from the cash shop, that is if you want an expansion. Progression helps them do this.

No, they need to get to a stable player base (one that agrees with their vision), and then determine how to operate within that revenue.

LoL doesn’t have more people than WoW playing it, but who cares because it freakin’ rocks all on it’s own.

A yes it does… LoL has way more than WoW…. LoL is the most played pc game there is…

Okay well maybe you’re right I admit I didn’t check because it really isn’t relevant to my point.

Different games are different. There are a lot of gamers, with a lot of money to spend on game crap.

bcbully.7289:

Vena.8436:

hplee.2839:

well, the same forum that QQ about the lack of stuffs to do at lvl 80 now QQ about Anet adding more stuffs to do at lvl 80. The same forum also QQ about the lack of " PROGRESSION" now QQ about Anet adding progression.

I think the introduction of the new armor type is good .This will make “I-got-exotics-already-now-i-have-no-goal-or-motivation-to-play” people stays longer.

New goal and New motivation, I like the sound of it.

The vast majority of us were in game playing because we liked no vertical climbs of pointlessness.

The thing is, every possible indicator shows that more people have left the game than are playing. The need people to play and buy from the cash shop, that is if you want an expansion. Progression helps them do this.

No, they need to get to a stable player base (one that agrees with their vision), and then determine how to operate within that revenue.

LoL doesn’t have more people than WoW playing it, but who cares because it freakin’ rocks all on it’s own.

Crater.1625:

lacrimstein.5603:

Where’s the “vertical progression” in GW2 then?

You have to level from 1 to 80, which either takes dozens and dozens of hours or requires you to bypass it all through sheer force of bank account by crafting your way there. You need to upgrade to Exotic equipment once you hit 80 – plus runes, sigils, etc – which, at a very conservative estimate of 1.5g per piece, runs you at least 20-30g.

That’s way more vertical progression than I’d like as it is. I can tolerate it only knowing that once you do that, it ends, and you can finally actually just play.

Add to this fact that I choose to do this with one of each profession, and you can see why I feel like there is a lot riding on the answer to this question.

bcbully.7289:

aaron.7850:

Still no official response yet

Its a shame that so many people are upset, a simple “no, these items will not be stronger than exotics” would calm the masses. I initially got the impression that Arenanet would be more communicative with the playerbase, but whenever I see the Arenanet logo on the forum, its just some manager closing the thread because the “question was answered”

They already said that they would be more powerful. What more of an explanation do you need?

Look you don’t have to go for ascended gear if you don’t want to.

That is the big question.

If it affects general PvE or especially WvW – then yes, yes we do.
If not, then why didn’t they just say so in a quick one line post?

hplee.2839:

well, the same forum that QQ about the lack of stuffs to do at lvl 80 now QQ about Anet adding more stuffs to do at lvl 80. The same forum also QQ about the lack of " PROGRESSION" now QQ about Anet adding progression.

I think the introduction of the new armor type is good .This will make “I-got-exotics-already-now-i-have-no-goal-or-motivation-to-play” people stays longer.

New goal and New motivation, I like the sound of it.

Why exactly do we want them to play longer?

They won’t stop with this. GW2 will never become an e-sport and the GW franchise will die not in a bang, but a whimper.

Natural.7013:

Half of you are the typical 2012 MMO players that whine when it’s too hard like this should be a sideways console game that gives you everything. The other half is like hell ya bring on real progression. Either way the devs can’t win.

Personally, put more true vertical progression in the game and give it more depth. More depth= good game. more casual=more console/cash shop genre.

Do you see this Arena Net?

This is the kind of playerbase you will be left with. This guy, right here, represents everyone in favor of vertical progression.

Floryn.6307:

Indigus.9528:

Floryn.6307:

Personally, I’ve never seen a game fading out so fast, so IMO they drastically try to change one of their core philosophy in an attempt to stop this massive disinterest in the game.

Personally this is the first MMO ive played (and ive played most of them since the start) that ISNT fading.

I’ve spoken with over 30 guild leaders in last 2 weeks and even the guilds that had over 200 players are now barely see 5-10 ppl logging, so whilst I can’t speak on a large scale, I ca at least tell you that players that swear that this game will keep them playing for years, have suddenly “disappeared”.

They need to bring a “carrot” to motivate ppl and skins it’s just not gonna cut it anymore, no idea if the new armor stats will change this, bu what’s interesting is that they at least acknowledge they have a problem, unlike the dedicated fans. -)

That’s an interesting idea, but let’s be real here.

The skins kind of suck.

Most of us understand that when you release a game this huge, this different, things like skins will be a 2nd priority.
But, for them to completely give up on the whole idea before even releasing any kitten skins (aside from Legendaries which are a little too ridiculous to grind) which might motivate people is stupid.

I don’t use that word lightly, but I really can’t think of a better one than stupid.

I believe Fractal implies they will be somewhat randomized within a fractal pattern.

I hope it is just a “survivor mode” type of thing.

If this is a one time rework of the gear progression, which they give good reason for and promise to never allow again, I think I might be okay with that.

I can understand people making mistakes – it happens. Let’s support their creative freedom to correct those.

I can not tolerate broken promises. These games take a lot of time and investment, and I am just not going to get involved with a Gamemaster (yes, a paid story-teller service) I don’t trust.

Eagerly awaiting this blog.