Guild Wars 2

Ghertu.7096:

I figured that thief is only profession that have ability to scout on WvW maps, because only thieves have high movement speed and escapability both. Necromancers are close to them, but have no strong benefits against them. Mesmers have hight escapability, but low movement speed ( actually, lowest potential movement speed in the game). Don’t even mention rangers. They have only scout-style in aperreance, but have no any ability to scouting in mechanics.
So, ANet, you made each profession able to play any role in a fight, but there more than fighting roles – there also tactical roles. Maybe you should give opportunity to play them to more professions?

Actually, I think Engineer makes the best WvW scout.

@ Jonathan Sharp

Your team’s consistent stand on this issue has reinforced my loyalty to GW2.
As long as you continue to leave sPvP 100% even footing, I will continue to buy all of your product.

PvP stats are only about customization and tweaking, trade-off and sacrifice. It should never EVER be the determining factor for any fight in sPvP.

Thanks.

fractalKinesis.8569:

Sky.9347:

Could anyone post a picture of the JQ Borderlands map?

We kicked a lot of kitten there last night (and props to HoD for a very well executed siege on Cliffside around midnight eastern), and I am curious to see how things have panned out in the last 12 hours.

From then on until 1 AM EST, JQ got Cliffside back, grabbed Hills, and filled it with about 200 badges worth of siege, since SBI seemed to stop queuing up. At this point, our commanders left, and the zerglings started to roll in. They pushed out from Cliffside and started mindlessly beating on Garrison for some reason. SBI finally got some people in, and collectively rolled through Hills with ease. I left after that.

Here’s what it looks like now (11:30 EST)

Excellent, thanks. SBI really needs people to fill that time slot.

Andais.2709:

Oh dear, let’s not punish PvE people who want to play with their friends and take advantage of transfers because of the still undeveloped ranking system, please.

ANet has said time and time again that they’ll lock transfers once things get settled down.

WvW rankings will never settle down until transfers are pay only.

Could anyone post a picture of the JQ Borderlands map?

We kicked a lot of kitten there last night (and props to HoD for a very well executed siege on Cliffside around midnight eastern), and I am curious to see how things have panned out in the last 12 hours.

If I could get double the zoom-out distance, I would be a very happy camper.

This is especially true with Norn characters. It is sometimes very difficult to get a sense of the battlefield, and very easy to get tunnel-vision.

Alright well, I really have nothing new to offer in this thread – and it seems the most vocal opponents of ANet taking action have begun to see the light.

So, I will exit the thread with just a brief summary of my position.

Problem: Population mismatches, server pools, transfers, snowball mechanics all combine to cause casual player interest in W3 to fade, thus exacerbating the lop-sided matches.

Solution: I prefer a server-based solution, such as removing EU and NA designations and allowing every server to become international without borders.
Failing that, I believe there needs to be some sort of “comeback” mechanic that gives players hope, which will inspire them to continue fighting even against an “evil empire”.
Failing even that!… there needs to be some changes made to prevent the inevitable snowball from becoming an avalanche.

Good luck Arena Net & company. Excellent game here, just a few minor changes (and bug/hack fixes!) and I think you’ve really given the gaming community a PvP (structured and massive) crown jewel.

rallydx.9032:

This is off topic but what are the queue times like in these servers about this time?

SBI has instant queues lately.

In fact, yesterday I finally sat down to play some GW2 at about 8:30 PM (GMT-4), I queued for EB and instantly walked into the Red Borderland. EB popped for me less than 5 minutes later.

It’s been that way for the last week or so. Prior to that, I would often wait 30 minutes to 45 minutes for EB to pop. Time which I used to clean out my inventory and do a little crafting… ;-)

Binafus.8153:

Urzen shows a screen shot of HOD’s mighty night capping.

Guess you missed the one up higher there?

Protip: The grub is worthless.

I’ve had some good times this week, but I agree with BleedOrange.

Since about Wednesday of last week, I have not once waited in a queue on SBI. Always at least one of the maps has been instant. You can just feel the general consensus is more of a “meh, whatever”.

I would LOVE to play a SBIvETvJQ match, I think it would be superb.

Hopefully next week will be a better match.

JohnCataldo.9201:

Scale the points awarded every 15 minutes based on number of active players during those 15 minutes.

Make undermanned scale appropriately too, if you want.

Sure, start with some base so it’s not wonky. Make the math work right and weight it as needed. But 200 players per side should be more meaningful than 20 per side.

I support this idea. ANet can figure the numbers better than any of us can, and your last statement is the idea I think we are all trying to express.

Guild Wars Fan:

You’re correct in thinking that this problem could solve itself.

If only 30-40% of the population would immediately change their behavior pattern with no new stimuli.

Alas, this is not happening. You admit the scoring system is biased, but for some reason you think we as individuals can do something to fix it. In theory yes, we can. In reality no, we can not.

This is a systemic problem. This isn’t one or two servers, this is literally EVERY SINGLE SERVER except one in each ladder.

Ignore this problem and humans will continue being human, resulting in one active WvW server per ladder and a bunch of ghost towns.

Address this problem in a way that does not change the inherit unfairness of the game and you might lose a couple players who can not stand their win advantage being taken away.

If our primary purpose is the future health of the game (and not the insulting accusations you and your kind keep throwing around to deflect attention), then you must understand how the current situation is not good.

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

Binafus.8153:

@ Ped

I’m not giving you numbers I’m giving you an actual case of it last week ET and SBI vs HOD they were winning after four days.

They were mainly focusing on HOD but were still fighting each other some, if they would have divided all four maps in half and not gave up I feel they would have put HOD in third for the week and think most of SBI and ET players can see this.

I tossed out four solutions that would help.

I want some good competition.

I’m not upset with you Binafus, but you still aren’t seeing things clearly.

ET and SBI both focused on HoD, that’s true. HoD was losing by the end of the weekend, that’s true too.

Tuesday @ prime time, HoD had completely 100% reversed this 3 days of LOSING and were now WINNING.

Do you understand that? Three full days of losing in points, and then the next day they are winning. And you’re saying they should have just kept doing it? One single night Binafus. ONE NIGHT changed HoD from 3rd place to 1st.

2v1 doesn’t make a difference, after the FIRST full night-cap.
This is a problem, because it decimates the W3 participation rates.

That would be a problem if there was no one else playing, but as a NA player that helped that night there was plenty of ET/SBI out defending they just got out played and lost ground that their teammates gained them. It was pretty equal actually.

Thats the part your not getting.

Its true that other servers literally have no one on at night but its been proven time and time again that the top servers have people at night. They just aren’t queing up for WvW, and the people in WvW aren’t that good at night, lack coordination and leaders, whereas HoD has that coordination and leaders even at night.

Btw HoD always has instant ques at night during the week, and maybe a 5-10 minute que during the weekend. Only during primetime is the que horrible.

This debate that deals with HoD/SBI/JQ/ET is all he said she said.

Right, I see.

The entire weekend HoD was a distant last place, but once our “equally sized” night forces came on, HoD was simply so much better than both ET and SBI combined that they completely wiped them off of all 4 maps.

I see now. Totally a player skill issue. Makes perfect sense.

I like how you side stepped what I pointed out which is completely correct and chose to play the ya your right but im not gonna admit it card and instead comment on something totally irrelevant in my reply to you.

No ques on any of the 3 servers, all 3 were at high… yet we are the bad guys because we took everything in one go… clearly your server wasn’t empty so whats the reason you lost all that ground? Oh right your still claiming its PvD, when it never was thats cool though.

Don’t put words in my mouth.

I never said you were bad guys. I never said it was PvD. Those things are not part of my argument, and never have been. Don’t confuse me with random forum trolls.

A) Server Population =/= WvW Population
I agree, but there is no way for me as a player to fix this. People want to play less and less often, because of the way the game goes. This is why I am here discussing it.

B) WvW maps are probably never completely empty
I agree, but it is lopsided enough to create a MASSIVE imbalance.

Listen, it seems you are here arguing the very fact that night capping happens. We are all here talking about possible solutions that don’t screw up the game, or cause winners to lose… and you show up saying that there never was a population mismatch, our night time players are just clearly so awful compared to yours – and that’s the reason your server wipes the maps (or nearly does) every single night.

I disagree with your very premise. Most people do. There is data that disagrees with you, too.

If your point is simply that the servers are full and thus it is our jobs as players to motivate other players (who are not on when we are on, usually) to go play WvW – then I am afraid we will simply never agree.

ANet needs to make the game fun and interesting. It is not MY job to convince people it is fun and interesting. That is not a player problem, it is a game problem.

Tuks.7532:

i did’nt ment to say 100 ms total.. i ment, AND EXTRA 100ms..

i already play with 280ms.. i really dont want to play wth 380ms..
its very bad.. my skills take a lot of time to fire.. its specialy bad for Ground target spells.. you never land it when the enemy is below..

i find myself charging the nothingness 60% of the time.. all my root(trow bolas/trow axe/trow gs) miss.. becouse my enemy is nowere near were i shot them..

Your situation is not the same as all other players.

You should not project your problems on to others, and then use that fallacy in discussions about solutions.

Besides, nobody said you had to change servers. I imagine someone with such bad latency would find the best possible server for them, regardless of the time zone.

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

Binafus.8153:

@ Ped

I’m not giving you numbers I’m giving you an actual case of it last week ET and SBI vs HOD they were winning after four days.

They were mainly focusing on HOD but were still fighting each other some, if they would have divided all four maps in half and not gave up I feel they would have put HOD in third for the week and think most of SBI and ET players can see this.

I tossed out four solutions that would help.

I want some good competition.

I’m not upset with you Binafus, but you still aren’t seeing things clearly.

ET and SBI both focused on HoD, that’s true. HoD was losing by the end of the weekend, that’s true too.

Tuesday @ prime time, HoD had completely 100% reversed this 3 days of LOSING and were now WINNING.

Do you understand that? Three full days of losing in points, and then the next day they are winning. And you’re saying they should have just kept doing it? One single night Binafus. ONE NIGHT changed HoD from 3rd place to 1st.

2v1 doesn’t make a difference, after the FIRST full night-cap.
This is a problem, because it decimates the W3 participation rates.

That would be a problem if there was no one else playing, but as a NA player that helped that night there was plenty of ET/SBI out defending they just got out played and lost ground that their teammates gained them. It was pretty equal actually.

Thats the part your not getting.

Its true that other servers literally have no one on at night but its been proven time and time again that the top servers have people at night. They just aren’t queing up for WvW, and the people in WvW aren’t that good at night, lack coordination and leaders, whereas HoD has that coordination and leaders even at night.

Btw HoD always has instant ques at night during the week, and maybe a 5-10 minute que during the weekend. Only during primetime is the que horrible.

This debate that deals with HoD/SBI/JQ/ET is all he said she said.

Right, I see.

The entire weekend HoD was a distant last place, but once our “equally sized” night forces came on, HoD was simply so much better than both ET and SBI combined that they completely wiped them off of all 4 maps.

I see now. Totally a player skill issue. Makes perfect sense.

Celestian.2689:

So you want to basically make Mesmer’s even more useless in RvR because you cannot cope with mass PVP.

The invisible issue is not a mesmer portal issue. Stop trying to make it one.

I disagree with the OP, but mesmer useless in WvW??!?!!

Are you out of your mind? Mesmer is one of the strongest WvW professions, in my opinion.

Soutalgon.3827:

So we can all agree that this is the way to nerf mesmer portal?

I do not think the Portal needs any sort of nerf at all, at this time.

I think you are short-sighted in your request.

Alarox.4590:

So… balance something that is working as intended, because of an issue with rendering?

That’s like spending a thousand dollars putting in a tiled floor to prevent water damage instead of fixing the leaking pipe.

Binafus.8153:

@ Ped

I’m not giving you numbers I’m giving you an actual case of it last week ET and SBI vs HOD they were winning after four days.

They were mainly focusing on HOD but were still fighting each other some, if they would have divided all four maps in half and not gave up I feel they would have put HOD in third for the week and think most of SBI and ET players can see this.

I tossed out four solutions that would help.

I want some good competition.

I’m not upset with you Binafus, but you still aren’t seeing things clearly.

ET and SBI both focused on HoD, that’s true. HoD was losing by the end of the weekend, that’s true too.

Tuesday @ prime time, HoD had completely 100% reversed this 3 days of LOSING and were now WINNING.

Do you understand that? Three full days of losing in points, and then the next day they are winning. And you’re saying they should have just kept doing it? One single night Binafus. ONE NIGHT changed HoD from 3rd place to 1st.

2v1 doesn’t make a difference, after the FIRST full night-cap.
This is a problem, because it decimates the W3 participation rates.

Binafus.8153:

@ Veles – yes HOD did recruit guilds so we would have a 24 hour coverage. I find it hard to believe we were the only ones that thought hey this is a 24 hour war for 14 days in order to win we need people that can fight around the clock.

Our numbers have grown greatly since the start though, by winning more people keep coming to our server.

I have never once acted like I was not from HOD, I want some good competition.

I offer up ways to fix the problem not just argue.

NO transfers to the top 20 percent.

Combine the EU and NA ladders, more servers will end up with 24 hour coverage.

It is a three way match the bottom two should tag team the top one, this is the players fault if they are not currently doing this.

Give the bottom 20 percent servers a Gold/Karma/Exp buff.

If you do not want a 24 hour war then WvWvW is not for you.

Combining ladders: we agree.
Top 20%: based on what? The fact that HoD has it’s 24 hour coverage, so no need for anyone else in the top 20% to shore up their weak hours?
Bottom 20%: Gold/karma/exp bonuses aren’t going to fix this.
2 v 1: It DOES NOT WORK. It has been tried, and the “night” capping is more powerful than being 2v1’d.

Binafus.8153:

@ped if you beat someone down over and over they tend to quit showing up, so it gets easier to beat server C and more people come to your server to help.

Last week ET and SBI were ahead after four and a half days and said they were not even teaming up on HOD.

HOD passed ET and SBI both in Prime Time NA, it was not in the middle of the night, granted we gained ground during the night.

It seems if they would have kept it up HOD would have lost last week, beat them a couple weeks people transfer to your server and now your the one that has the advantage.

As you always point out to me this is a talk about how to fix things where more servers can be competitive.

I offer up combine the EU and NA servers as the best solution and second best is the number 2 and 3 teams in the matchup tag team the number one.

Third don’t allow transfers to the top 20 percent of the servers.

Fourth give a buff for Exp/Karma/Gold to the bottom 20 percent.

As far as tools TS, Vent, Mumble just make a joint one between the servers that are tag teaming, divide the maps up in half and get after it.

There is a lot of fighting besides the top three servers in Guild Wars 2 these solutions will help at all levels.

First bold line:

HoD went from lowest PPT to +550 overnight.
Their total SCORE actually surpassed SBI during prime time, since both SBI and ET were clawing their way back onto the map. Their PPT was declining, but it was still far above both SBI and ET.

This was disingenuous. In fact, this is something politicians do all the time. The way you go back and reword history so that it is technically true, but doesn’t actually represent the situation is a kitten thing to do.

Second bold line:

I agree.

lollie.5816:

Sky.9347:

lollie.5816:

Veles.5289:

snip

In your example, the next day server A and server B should be ignoring each other and picking on server C to regain lost ground…so the solution is in their own hands. This is just an example of poor tactics, and misdirected opportunism (lack of ambition) to only reach #2 position on 3 server fight. Put simply, they give up and scramble for #2 position and fight each other for that place.

Yes, people are giving up…is it really what WvWvW was supposed to be?

Don’t need to add more, same as above – they should be directing their efforts better, and that’s what WvW is supposed to be about .

Okay man, I don’t think you understand.

This isn’t 24 amazing teams of equally interested PvP teams fighting. This is the entire NA server population.

You might have all the guts and glory necessary. Your guild and/or server might be the coolest, most pro, legendary WvW players ever known to GW2. You have never experienced this situation, since you are so awesome and your server had all the foresight and wit cornered, thus enabling you to prepare an international server (NA, Oceanic, Asian, EU) which can not be beaten.

Unless you want to be playing WvW by yourself within the month, I suggest you pay attention to the OTHER TWENTY THREE servers.

The problem is ANet created a game mode that REQUIRES 24/7 globe spanning servers in order to enjoy (read: have a fun, contested, competitive match), but then broke the server pool into two groups based on geography.

WvWvW has already begun to be much less popular (not among your kind, you PvP god you), and many servers can no longer fill up maps even though they have the population to do so during their prime time.

You can ignore it and say “they just aren’t as kitten or hardcore as me and my buddies, HAHAHA NOOBZORS” while W3 dies a slow death, or you can understand the situation and attempt to influence the discussion towards your preferred solution.

Binafus.8153:

Veles with your example A & B just need to wipe C off during their play times to help even things out.

I really think making ONE ladder will fix a lot of the problems, mixing the EU with the NA will give more servers 24 hour coverage.

There is no way to make war 100 percent fair but mixing the different play times will help balance out more servers.

For all the people that think when they are not playing the other servers should not be able to score points this has no chance of working.

SPvP works that way, but a war that last two weeks you really can not pick times that fighting does not count or counts less.

I agree with everything you said, with one small exception.

“Veles with your example A & B just need to wipe C off during their play times to help even things out.”

Except it doesn’t work that way. A & B can go full bore into C, but they will not wipe C off the map because C has had many MANY hours to upgrade and stock up, in addition to pinning A & B in their spawns.

Recapping during the “day” will never equal all-capping during the “night”. It doesn’t work.

lollie.5816:

Veles.5289:

snip

In your example, the next day server A and server B should be ignoring each other and picking on server C to regain lost ground…so the solution is in their own hands. This is just an example of poor tactics, and misdirected opportunism (lack of ambition) to only reach #2 position on 3 server fight. Put simply, they give up and scramble for #2 position and fight each other for that place.

And to address your addendum directly:

Yes, people are giving up. They are doing it because there is not enough time in their play schedule to even fully regain what they lose every single night (or day, or whenever it happens).

A lot of us still go and fight just for the pleasure of fighting. But we’ve given up on winning, too. It ceases to be a large scale game of strategy and tactics, and becomes a game of large PvP battles with interesting terrain. Still fun, but is it really what WvWvW was supposed to be?

lollie.5816:

Veles.5289:

snip

In your example, the next day server B and server C should be ignoring each other and picking on server A to regain lost ground…so the solution is in their own hands.

Theoretically, yes.

Practically – during those “more active” 12 hours servers A and B will fight hard, and will probably get their corner back. It is very unlikely they will gain anything more than that, because they are very far behind in supply/upgrades/siege.
And they will not have time to catch up in those departments before the “second shift” comes around again.

It is a snowball that turns into an avalanche. People have experienced it so much with no hope for any different outcome that it is difficult to fill up W3 maps anymore.

If ANet’s data matches my personal experience with the queues lately, I imagine they will see this direct effect quantified.

Binafus:

The “top 20%” aren’t okay or evenly matched either. In fact, SBI (#2 NA) seems unable to fill up even one W3 map lately.

Is there too much PvP in your WvW?

I think it is a valid strategy to camp the jumping puzzle and prevent your opponents from getting free siege plans.

Konrad Curze.5130:

Sky.9347:

The root of this problem is thus:
WvWvW is and should be a 24/7 game mode; servers are not designed for 24/7 player loads.

wholeheartly agree

Sky.9347:

I think the best possible solution to this problem is threefold:
1) Eliminate NA and EU designations. (language designations would be fine)
2) Announce a finite time remaining for free transfers. (at least 2 full matches)
3) Continue focusing developer attention on bugs/exploits/hacks.

disagree
that wouldnt solve much, if anything.

my solution is:

1) IP Ban/ Lock NA and EU regions
2) create new Asian/SEA region
3) Announce a finite time remaining for free transfers. (at least 2 full matches)

anyone that doesnt take advantage of that free transfers to go to a region that fits him will see that chars locked.

Your solution and my solution are just two takes on the same idea, and in that respect I agree.

There are multiple factors that would ultimately suggest one of the two as optimal, but none of us have access to enough data to make that call.

In any case, the problem has nothing to do with the game itself and rather everything to do with the server system.

This isn’t about Oceanics, Asians, Russians, or French Canadians.

This isn’t about time zones, or geography, or work schedules, or staying up all night to win.

This isn’t about xenophobia or racism or isolationism.

This is about massive participation mis-matches destroying any chance of true competition in WvWvW over longer games, namely one to two weeks.

The root of this problem is thus:
WvWvW is and should be a 24/7 game mode; servers are not designed for 24/7 player loads.

I think the best possible solution to this problem is threefold:
1) Eliminate NA and EU designations. (language designations would be fine)
2) Announce a finite time remaining for free transfers. (at least 2 full matches)
3) Continue focusing developer attention on bugs/exploits/hacks.

Middle of last week, SBI queues became instant (or maybe 1-3 minutes), and have not improved since then. Friday after the reset there was a queue for EB for a couple hours, but I was able to get into BL maps instantly.

I don’t know if it was the new WoW expansion, or simply the inevitable Tuesday Tide… but SBI seems to be lacking WvW enthusiasm lately.

I am not here to toss around insults or accusations, because I think the majority of players on all servers just want to enjoy the game. There are truly excellent W3 players on every server I’ve seen – there are also kittens.

I do however want to point out that the #2 ranked server currently has instant queues for WvW at virtually all times of the day, for all maps.

Say what you want, but that indicates a problem. If you can’t keep general interest in the game mode for the #2 ranked NA server (#3 in the world), something must be wrong.

My hypothesis: After fighting HoD relentlessly last weekend only to be steamrolled during the week, most “casual” W3 players are no longer interested. They see no hope, and no point. Although the “hardcore” W3 players are still fighting, they do not have the support of random players that is so very critical to maintaining a war effort.

Really, it’s the same information + knowing which one it is.

@blazesquall

You mean, like the small chart of # of keeps, camps, etc. on the score board?

Thank you for the response. Would be a great feature after you guys get the bugs and what-not worked out.

Slamz.5376:

Population Imbalance, not “night capping”.

Population imbalance, combined with keeps falling way too fast, way too cheaply, is the real problem. Once one server gets a modest population advantage they roll up the maps over the next 60 minutes and that’s often the end of it.

By the time balance is restored, the other servers are at a tremendous disadvantage. The momentum of off-hours population imbalance is hard to stop, and that’s a problem.

Well stated, I agree.

Can you please implement some kind of feature that can be used to view the WvWvW maps while not currently in one of them?

One thing though… any sort of point scaling will not motivate players to even out the W3 populations among servers.

If that is a goal (which I think Mike Ferguson believes it is), then we need not a point scaling system, but a complete rework of the bonuses and individual/guild rewards for playing W3.

Not a penalty, but an incentive.

Draygo.9473:

I have a loongish post coming with some detailed feedback that can make the game a lot better. But Ill post the jist of it here:

There are some severe problems with the scorekeeping in WvW right now. There is no account for difficulty. For example, if a server is fielding 3x the population of another server, do you think its a fair metric that that server gets ALL the points ALL the time. What that does is create a lame duck scenario where the winner gets to play kingmaker. (Why is a lame duck/kingmaker scenario bad, see sirlin’s blog on olympic badmitten).

Lots of people are discouraged when they see the score so out of wack and so uncatchable.

The solution? Award bonus points to servers that take and hold objectives against larger numbers of enemies. If I am outnumbered 10:1 overall (all maps are taken into account) I get 10x the amount of points the site is worth immediately when i capture it. Basically, if your server outnumbers the enemy by so much that you can afford to guard all your camps with 20 people when the enemy server only has 10 people total, that server should get major points when it takes objectives. You do not get any additional points for holding objectives, the idea is to get the server involved in making headway into wvw.

This is an anti-snowball mechanic that will help normalize scores in off peak hours, or in matchups where a server is just hopelessly outnumbered at all hours. The number is something I threw out there on a whim, and I’m sure that you guys can come up with better metrics so the system cant just be abused to rapidly gain score but a mechanic that is dynamic like this would help correct scoring issues.

The other method is to make holding objectives for the team that vastly outnumbers the enemy worth less points per tick, by keeping track of a ‘difficulty’ rating. Take your server, multiply its population by 2, compare it to the total enemy population, that is your baseline. If its an even fight the baseline will be 1. The baseline cannot exceed 1 so simply logging out your guild before a point tick wont net any results, and the count is for total number of unique people logged into your map within that 15 min span, to avoid any log out exploits to gain more score. If you outnumber the enemy your points are going to be worth less by that , to a minimum of 10. This is another anti-snowball mechanic designed to prevent a server from outscoring both opponents by almost a factor of 10 (see BP vs Kaineng vs Devona’s Rest). Again, this is to avoid a lame-duck or kingmaker scenario.).

Third, eliminate stat advantage for holding orbs. Make them worth points, and give +exp +karma +MF awards to the team that holds them.

Fourth, fix the outmanned buff
currently it doesnt reapply if you get downed and revived. You lose the buff till you leave and reenter the zone.
make it give meaningful boosts that increase the players effectiveness in a fight, the prevoius orb bonus should be transferred to outmanned.

Basically, the major concern right now is the huge snowballing effect on the score that ‘night capping’ or ‘morning capping on weekdays’ causes. It creates an unwinnable situation for servers, where they become lame ducks. Once a server becomes a lame duck, nothing they do will have any effect on the outcome, and the players of that server are now worthless. So they lose morale and quit playing wvw till friday, making the situation worse.

I like your idea to award bonus points when capturing objectives. That’s a good one.

Someone had a great idea in another thread that didn’t get much attention.

Objectives farther from your spawn point would not be qualified for full upgrades. The tower/keep next to an opponents spawn would only be able to build tier 1 upgrades, for example.

The point scaling may even be unnecessary (because I think in any case it would be sloppy) if there is another way to get back into the game.

Scrapping the point system entirely and just turning specific objectives into specific bonuses (or bonus accumulation) would be great, but then a second or sub system would have to be designed to figure “rank”.

Dordane,

Less points doesn’t mean less than your losing opponent. It means you are accruing points at a slightly slower rate.

If you have zero opponents on either opposing team, maybe you get 30% of the PPT or something, I don’t know what number is good. As soon as they all log in and fill it up, you’ll be getting 100%. And, you will still have had hours of higher PPT than them, you will still have had hours to beef up defenses.

Just a thought. It has flaws, I admit.

First of all – brilliant, and bravo.

You guys are on point. I am impressed with the way you’ve handled these forums and discussions, and the quick trigger finger on infractions. (keeps us honest and on topic)

My question is, what direction are you approaching W3 from? This will determine what I suggest and support here.

For expediency, I will go with my assumptions.

Each server should have a healthy, and enjoyable W3 experience – while allowing the most competitive and aggressive servers freedom to express themselves in brutal massive persistent combat.
This system to have rankings and periodic reshuffling based on those rankings to dynamically support a fluctuating server environment.

Each server should be somewhat balanced between WvW (bonuses always rock), PvE, and sPvP. The game is designed around sideways integration.

My suggestions:

Change the Orb system to have orbs affect the score much more, and the stats of the strongest team much less.
– this becomes a comeback mechanic, a way for a dominated team to get back in the game
– this may cause Borderlands maps to become less popular, until later in the match

Scale points per tick based on “total enemies on the field”, irrespective of your team’s numbers.
– this rewards any server who can take ground away from a more massive ally
– this slows down the snowball effect
– this may provide some incentive to not voluntarily balance server populations

Mulitplex.2017:

Sky.9347:

Heh… I guess it’s your last vestige of hope. I understand, but I would say don’t give up yet.

We, as a community, can still fix this. I can’t fix it and neither can you – but if we are respectful, reasonable, articulate, and persuasive we can perhaps change the trend of thought.

Don’t go all chicken little on me here.

The complaining on the forums is going to continue until they make adjustments (and they work) or the game dies. I’m not “holding out hope” as I’m just expecting that adjustments will be made. It makes the most sense and would retain the most players if they changed things vs leaving them as they are now.

I think changes that are NOT inside the WvW system would have the best chance of being acceptable to all players.

My personal preference, if anything is done at all, would be to simply designate 30% of the servers as WvWvW Focused, and then tell everyone they had 1 week left of free transfers.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

My shift at work is about to change. I may end up on a nightshift working as late as 11pm. My potential playtime is then anywhere from 12am to 4am. Disallowing “nightcapping” would essentially neuter the game for me and anyone like me.

There’s no need to “fix” nightcapping because it’s not broken in the first place. People play at all times of day and night as their schedule allows. Is my playtime somehow worth less than someone who works at regular 9-5?

Their complaint (the reasonable ones) is that THEIR playtime is worth less than someone who works the 2nd or 3rd shift.

Same emotion, different perspective.

“SBI and ET teamed up and was winning after three days, then they gave up so they lost the week match. "

This is wrong. Factually and conceptually wrong.

Mulitplex.2017:

Sky.9347:

Forgive my ignorance here, but what is it you keep saying about the “German CM”? I don’t visit the German forums, and so I haven’t read anything there. Can you link this post of his?

Page 2 of this thread. Look at the developers title.

Seems a little strange to me so I’m not taking it as the gospel on any future WvW adjustments until a known team member confirms it.

Heh… I guess it’s your last vestige of hope. I understand, but I would say don’t give up yet.

We, as a community, can still fix this. I can’t fix it and neither can you – but if we are respectful, reasonable, articulate, and persuasive we can perhaps change the trend of thought.

Don’t go all chicken little on me here.

Mulitplex.2017:

Sky.9347:

Finally, ANet has officially voiced their stance: HoD is the solution.

So now, my goal is to help convince the community to create 6 to 9 HoD-esque servers, so we can all just resume KICKING EACH OTHERS kitten

I’m still trying to figure out when ANet brought in the German CM to advise them on WvW adjustments. All other Dev statements were made a long while back before the problem became so obvious.

Here’s to hoping that their official stance is adjusted to meet the current situation.

Forgive my ignorance here, but what is it you keep saying about the “German CM”? I don’t visit the German forums, and so I haven’t read anything there. Can you link this post of his?

mrzero.2486:

RamonDomke.9638:

Higher server population and maximum player cap in world vs. world do not go hand in hand. Yes, there is a statistical advantage of this happening – since you can fall back to a higher number of players. But stochastics and ‘large numbers’ do not per se grant an advantage – since we are talking mere ‘probabilities’. It still could happen that you have a caped out world population – of which no one wants to (or can) play at night.

The free character transfer is NOT a core mechanic of the game – but instead a launch only initiative to balance out server population (to actually prevent the above mentioned ‘possible scenario’). It will go away at some point.

I didn’t read past this point really because it is evident where this thread is going to go. I do have one question. Before free server transfers go away, are there any plans to help guilds out that want to transfer? I.E. let them keep the buffs and such that they have earned so far. I have seen it stated that so guilds would transfer but they have decided not to because they would have to start over from scratch.

As much as some people hate “nightcapping” I am sure the people doing it are going to get very bored at some point.

There was an ANet post that they were trying to find a way to allow guilds to keep their influence on transfer, so that we could sort these problems out ourselves.

Mulitplex.2017:

Sky.9347:

And?

I do what I want, and I am not an Oceanic player. They SHOULD say “screw off, I’ll do what I want” because they aren’t obligated to you, or ANet, or anyone else here. (generally speaking)

That’s fine and that’s what I’d expect that you’d say. That is why people are asking ANet to fix you regardless of your thoughts on the issue.

I actually, basically, agreed with people that population imbalances were a potentially major problem. Check my post history, I’ve even argued for things such as scaled point systems (based on your current # of enemies), designating servers as WvW focused, even offering small incentives to large guilds who move to small servers.

But I’ve also read a lot, and thought a lot, and tried to understand the counter arguments.

It came down to a question I read on GW2Guru forums… “Is HoD the solution or the problem?”
This framed the whole debate for me in a new way. Is the solution to this imbalance creating a few HoD-esque servers, or eliminating HoD-esque servers?

I’ve thought long and kitten this. On one side, the pull of consistently contested and tense matches is alluring. On the other side, the pull of true freedom and liberty is alluring.

Finally, ANet has officially voiced their stance: HoD is the solution.

So now, my goal is to help convince the community to create 6 to 9 HoD-esque servers, so we can all just resume KICKING EACH OTHERS kitten

EDIT: “kicking each others kitten” sounds kind of dirty… is this considered an exploit?

Krusk.6403:

I’m not talking about locking the whole thing down, read more closely. I was only referring to the big keeps. Part of the idea came from people investing less and less in upgrading the big keeps, because “this waypoint will be gone tommorrow regardless of what I do”

And I’m sorry if this idea in a similar form was already posted, I looked at different threads but did not do a throrough research.

Also before you’re going to attack me, It wasn’t a proposal to do exactly this. It was more ‘thinking how to approach certain points without stopping people from playing during nighttime’ namely big chunks of points skewering WvW results and – more importantly – to make it more desireable to upgrade big keeps.

ANYTHING that creates a disparity between two random players’ experiences is going to be a no-go, based on Mike Ferguson’s previous postings about this subject.

No player should log in and have less of a WvW experience simply because he lives a certain place, or has a certain time schedule. If a player never gets to assault or defend a keep, he is being forbidden a part of the experience for no other reason than his geographical and/or socio-economic situation.