Guild Wars 2

Kazim.2043:

Sky.9347:

You guys have to stop now. ANet chose a stance here, they aren’t going to adopt any mechanic that addresses this in any way.

I recommend we all turn our focus to what we can do to fix this, or adapt to it.

You are only going to frustrate yourself and destroy your own credibility by continuing to harp on something that has been definitively decided.

In my past gaming career I’ve seen many stances which they had to back up as players didn’t accept it. On EVE one of those stances resulted with a player blockade and a public apology from EVE devs. On SWTOR, they kept their stance and they lost more than half of their PvP player base.

We bought this game, we paid for it. We’re gonna not gonna leave it before we’re 100% sure we can’t fix this.

Well, here we can begin to get into a rather interesting philosophical discussion.

Who knows what’s better for the long-term success of a game: the players, with little data and emotional perogatives – or the developers, with immense data and financial perogatives?

But I won’t. I will just say… I understand.

Mulitplex.2017:

Cloud.7613

I’ve not seen anyone prove how a good method will help even out peak times, just people with issues. If anything it’s abuse-able. My server, would only WvWvW at our prime time, so it would be WvW. When it’s our prime time, we log in and dominant, then leave. ??? Beats the purpose really.

If you throttle the matchup so that no one can field more players than the lowest server in the group at any given time (give or take) then you would force the Oceanic guilds to spread out and improve competition.

Yes, its a kitteny thing to do but at this point the oceanic guilds have basically told everyont to screw off and they’ll do what they want. This forces them to spread out and make the environment competitive.

To be fair, you could also do the same thing to prime time NA guilds but you’ll find that it doesn’t have any impact since they are maxing out the zones anyway during this time.

And?

I do what I want, and I am not an Oceanic player. They SHOULD say “screw off, I’ll do what I want” because they aren’t obligated to you, or ANet, or anyone else here. (generally speaking)

You guys have to stop now. ANet chose a stance here, they aren’t going to adopt any mechanic that addresses this in any way.

I recommend we all turn our focus to what we can do to fix this, or adapt to it.

You are only going to frustrate yourself and destroy your own credibility by continuing to harp on something that has been definitively decided.

Felix.3028:

Sky.9347:

EDIT: r e a l l y becomes kittenlly?

“W.h.o. really”, first 5 letters. Rhymes with shore.

Heh… clever forums. Thanks for the insight.

Mulitplex.2017:

Sky.9347:

That isn’t what I meant. And I mean no offense, or passive aggression. I am being 100% serious.

I thought this population imbalance was a problem ANet could help with. They have said they are looking for ways to let guilds keep their influence, and they also said they will make no changes to the game for these population imbalances.

Well, okay then. Question answered. Let’s move forward.

The only solution is for most serious WvW players to play with each other. Since we are only 20-30% of the population, 30-40% of the top servers should be where we all go.

The top 30-40% (7-9) servers should be filled to the brim with everyone kittenally wants to play WvW to win. The other 60-70% of servers will dabble in WvW and hopefully will be relatively matched.

Queues might be a small issue, but that comes to each individuals preference.

If it is important to YOU, then YOU make a choice for YOU and move YOURSELF to a server that has a chance to be competitive. I’m not saying flock to HoD, I’m saying the top 2 or 3 tiers of matches.

It is a reasonable solution, given the current situation… is it not?

I like your approach to discussing the subject… for starters.

My concern here is that we could all move our guilds to the top four servers… and it’ll bring them crashing to the ground. We’re going to ramp up the queue times during prime to the point of being ridiculous and none of us will be able to WvW at all. If everyone is serious about playing there like you say the queue times may never get to a reasonable points.

I couldn’t care less about guild upgrades at this point. The queue is the bad part. I also consider myself to be serious about PVP and I’m in a guild that does only WvW.

Not the top 4, the top 6 or 9. The top 4 are full except in certain time slots, so unless you fit into that time slot it’s best to move down the rankings a bit.

It doesn’t matter what rank the world is currently, only that they are in the top 6 or 9. Reason being is past performance is irrelevant, current WvW interest (participation) is critical.

As a parent and a professional, I assume that ANet has made their call and they are going to stick with it. I can respect that, and I do not have the time or inclination to argue with them.

The way I see it, we have three choices right now…

1) Selective, targeted recruitment to specific servers of specific guilds.
2) The entire WvW crowd spreads out evenly among all 24 servers.
3) The WvW core crowd clumps up in the top few servers (again, 6-9) in order to experience the best types of WvW games – close, contested, tense, with a heavy dose of strategy, planning, and cooperation.

So, my thoughts on each:

1) I do not represent a large guild, or any significant portion of the population. This option is beyond my reach, except for advertising spam on the forums and I don’t want to do that.
2) Recent history and a basic knowledge of human behavior in groups implies that this will likely never happen on any scale that would make any meaningful impact.
3) This seems like a workable solution. It has the drawback of queue times, but again that is something each person will have to experience and weigh for himself.

When you say “night time”, which time zone are you talking about?

If after answering that question you still think this is a good idea, there is no hope for you.

Mulitplex.2017:

Sky.9347:

Large NA Prime Time guilds can move to #5 and #6 and turn them into competitors almost overnight.

We all want good tense matches. There is only one solution… everyone has to clump up near the top, and suffer slight queues.

If WvW is important to you, join one of the top servers. Queue times will generally improve the farther away from #1 you get, but that depends on your prime time.

This is seriously flawed.

DB and CD have large NA alliances which are organized. We held and and traded the lead in points multiple times throughout Friday and Saturday. It was a fun and competitive matchup for those two days.

However, once Sunday evening rolls around and people start to head to bed before work/school on Monday then we get trounced and no one has fun for the rest of the week.

These top servers need to stop thinking that they are winning because of superior players or organization during prime time. They just aren’t and the real reason is population issues during off-peak hours. These blow outs are NOT happening during NA prime time.

That isn’t what I meant. And I mean no offense, or passive aggression. I am being 100% serious.

I thought this population imbalance was a problem ANet could help with. They have said they are looking for ways to let guilds keep their influence, and they also said they will make no changes to the game for these population imbalances.

Well, okay then. Question answered. Let’s move forward.

The only solution is for most serious WvW players to play with each other. Since we are only 20-30% of the population, 30-40% of the top servers should be where we all go.

The top 30-40% (7-9) servers should be filled to the brim with everyone kittenally wants to play WvW to win. The other 60-70% of servers will dabble in WvW and hopefully will be relatively matched.

Queues might be a small issue, but that comes to each individuals preference.

If it is important to YOU, then YOU make a choice for YOU and move YOURSELF to a server that has a chance to be competitive. I’m not saying flock to HoD, I’m saying the top 2 or 3 tiers of matches.

It is a reasonable solution, given the current situation… is it not?

EDIT: r e a l l y becomes kittenlly?

Judas.5432:

Mulitplex.2017:

Blaeys.3102:

A few days ago, Henge of Denravi took a substantial lead, one that quickittenurned into a statistical inevitable victory. Even people on the server realized this was due primarily to “night capping.”

Then a lot of people (mostly on these forums) said it would kill WvW, hurt the experience, cause people to quit trying, etc.

But then, something very different happened. The battlefields all stayed full – very full. Queue times didn’t go down substantially. Stormbluff and Eredon Terrace continued to push hard and, at many times, maintained the highest number of capture points (often by a huge margin).

That just isn’t something that is sustainable. It isn’t going to keep happening.

I’m on a T2 server and we drew JQ this week. JQ, due to its overwhelming population advantage blew DB and CD out of the water. Next time one of our servers draws JQ… many people just aren’t going to bother. The same will go for ET and SBI as they get rotated down into the lower tiers. Similarly, as T3 and T4 gets T2 flunkies they will get crushed.

They have to fix the system to make it competitive and somewhat skill based. Individual/group player skill and organizational skills of alliances. Timezones shouldn’t factor into this as heavily as they do because off-peak guilds are rare birds… birds that have decided to flock to a couple of servers and stay there no matter what.

They are anti-competitive and they are content to just sit there and win unearned landslide victories. The player base has decided that it isn’t going to fix itself.

That’s where you’re wrong. I would argue that the reason SBI is staying on top is because we don’t get discouraged just because we aren’t winning.

Kittens, man, WvWvW is fun to play regardless of whether or not your work is undone by morning. We will continue to take kittens back and fight like hell to win. Nobody is unbeatable despite their powerhouse numbers at night.

Complaining won’t get your morale up. Head to Lion’s Arch and let people know you are pushing back. Find a guild that will focus on WvWvW and make your game fun despite what happens when you are offline.

Those of us in SBI who fought all week long (even after Monday night’s slaughter) did so because THAT IS WHAT WvWvW IS! It’s a 24 hour a day 7 days a week battle that will eventually last 2 weeks long. That’s what we want and that’s what we play. Getting demoralized only hurts your server and those who keep their heads held high.

Be the solution, not the problem ;-)

I was demoralized on Tuesday, I admit that. It felt bad having worked so hard, and wound up with so little.

By the time I got home Tuesday, I didn’t fight WvW because of some high-falootin (yea, I spelled it) idea of honor or fairness, I did it because those motherkitteners took my stuff away while I slept and would pay dearly for their mistake.

And I knew we weren’t going to win (even though we kicked major kitten on the weekend), but I also knew that every time I helped wipe an HoD group I would make them pay just a little bit more for their arrogance in stepping foot on SBI soil.

Mulitplex.2017:

Sky.9347:

All serious WvW players should immediately and permanently move to one of the top 6 servers.

There are not enough of us to fully fill out every NA server. If you want consistently competitive games, you are going to need to group up with the top two tiers and help further populate their maps.

Maybe even top 9, but I doubt it. This is the future, gentlemen. If you want to WIN – you need to be in one of the top 6-9 servers. The rest will only ever dabble, and will NEVER break through the population barrier to the top tier where the real fights happen.

It needs to be the top four servers… not the top 6-9. The difference between the 4th and 5th server is massive. The oceanic guilds have made it this way permanently because they aren’t going to move to make things competitive… they are content winning during off-peak hours.

To summarize, anyone who enjoys competitive WvW should move immediately and subject themselves to ridiculous queue times.

Large NA Prime Time guilds can move to #5 and #6 and turn them into competitors almost overnight.

We all want good tense matches. There is only one solution… everyone has to clump up near the top, and suffer slight queues.

If WvW is important to you, join one of the top servers. Queue times will generally improve the farther away from #1 you get, but that depends on your prime time.

All serious WvW players should immediately and permanently move to one of the top 6 servers.

There are not enough of us to fully fill out every NA server. If you want consistently competitive games, you are going to need to group up with the top two tiers and help further populate their maps.

Maybe even top 9, but I doubt it. This is the future, gentlemen. If you want to WIN – you need to be in one of the top 6-9 servers. The rest will only ever dabble, and will NEVER break through the population barrier to the top tier where the real fights happen.

Did you have any Vulnerability?

Omega.8573:

Kazim.2043:

Omega.8573:

And also you guys keep making these invisible references of “you shouldn’t get better gear for playing more so you can steamroll all the players”. What are you actually referencing? Give me one example in the current MMO genre, and I’ll tell you why that’s a bad example.

The point is there are more than 40 MMOs out there in which you can get better gear and streamroll others (mostly Korean though). GW 2 is one of few, which skill > gear.

Why not playing one of those 40 games instead of trying to change what this game is?

Again – your answer is incredibly ambiguous. Name one that isn’t korean.

Why? Does it matter which game you go play once you leave GW2 because there aren’t any stat advantages you can get on new players?

WoW does it, Rift does it, Aion does it, SWtOR does it, and so on and so forth.

MOST if not ALL modern MMOs do it. They’ve all got a nice endless gear grind for you, if that’s what you want.

Mandra Madador.1709:

I don’t know what you call em, but I keep seeing about 20-30 people all stacked on each other auto shooting at air. Are those bots? and they are in the same spot every day. Sometimes they are all dead.

It does annoy me though when some one joins in to WvW and starts asking questions about WvW and how its played and what the difference is between this or that or why they are lvl 80 suddenly..

Because there always will be a group of nice people who will stop what they are doing (fighting) to answer the kid that just walked in to the middle of the movie.

My advice for those new guys: Please ask on the forums, or look up a video on youtube.
Or ask around in normal pve world.
Ask you guild..

Or… talk to the NPC that was literally placed on the spawn point for that very reason.

MikeB.3857:

It isnt a glitch. The southwest inner door on the garrison is a free pass to those that want to use it.

Players can walk right though it on ever server. It’s just the honest ones dont.

Surely it isn’t intentional though, which makes it a glitch of some kind.

Psy.6153:

this
game
lacks
any
purpose
to
WvW

WTB progression RvR before we all get bored and move on to games which will offer us that “carrot on a stick” incentive to keep playing.

As it stands, this is looking very very bad for Anet and they could be on the verge of making history for the biggest MMO collapse of all time if they dont give us a reason to keep playing.

WvW “for the fun of it” just doesnt cut it, this is an MMO with a different crowd with different needs , not call of duty or GW1.

I’m afraid you didn’t read anything about the game before you purchased it.

However, unfortunately for you, you’ve already purchased it. You now own at least one copy of an MMO that is unlike all of the other MMOs you enjoyed.

“for the fun of it” is the only reason anyone should be playing any games at all.

ANet is not responsible for meeting your “needs”, they are only responsible for delivering the game they advertised to potential customers.

TL;DR – Too bad.

Flying Dutchman.3214:

A-Net HAS responded. THey said that limiting night-capping would be punishing players who aren’t on during prime hours. Effectively making anyone who works second shift or lives somewhere else a second class citizen.

You can’t limit night capping without undermining the system. If you want a PvP match that is limited and fair play sPvP.

They also said that they were looking for ways to allow guilds to keep their influence when transferring servers.

That will help, theoretically.

Suddle D.9412:

Huh? Using a surprise tactic and not letting your enemy see you coming straight at them is now frowned upon? Maybe they need to add a “red-rover” style gameplay so it will all be fair?

He’s talking about the technical issue, not the gameplay issue.

If you load a massive number of players into a portal, the GAME will not LOAD those players onto enemy screens for sometimes multiple minutes.

It is a technical bug that is causing mesmer portals to grant AOE stealth (which doesn’t drop via combat) to an infinite number of allies for a super long duration.

Stiv.1820:

waeren.9743:

Stiv.1820:

dirtyklingon.2918:

i see posts like this in every.single.new.mmo.

surprise! this game isn’t daoc 2 either.

few people ever played daoc because for it’s time it wasn’t that good. other games were better at everything it claimed to be good at.

daoc vets are very very very vocal, but we can look at simple numbers (ie the number of daoc managed to hold) to find out that daoc vets are a very small minority of people.

i didn’t want to play daoc in 2002, and i don’t want to play it now. please for the sake of dignity, stop demanding every new game become daoc 2.0. campagn ea bioware mythic to make that game for you as those are the people most capable of making what you want.

however i suspect that if they did make daoc 2, that was nothing more than a gfx update of yoru favourite daoc patch, you people would still be unhappy.

I’m not sure what you are talking about. The numbers of MMO players before WoW made it extremely popular were low in genreal. Before DAOC the popular games that I knew about were UO, AC, EQ and then DAOC. After UO you basically had the MMO player base split between PvP (DAOC, AC (one server really) ) and PvE (EQ). DAOC was plenty big until WoW Roflstomp’d everything out of existence. Other fun games were around too like City of Heroes and stuff but really nothing at that time would have had the sub numbers you see now even in failing games for the first few months.

I’m sure DAoC was nice, I honestly never bothered with it. You’re forgetting a couple games though. Lineage, Lineage II, AO, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, …

Point is, this is gw2, not daoc2 and while yes some daoc features would be great this is not supposed to be a daoc clone. I think earlier posts have already shown some of the things that were wrong with it.

Yea, not sure why I forgot those. I played most of them. Planetside as well but that may not count. I don’t really want GW2 to be DAOC2 (I’d play the crap out of DAOC2 though). I just want some sort of Stat tracking and titles and stuff like that to keep it interesting. I especially want stats like “solo kills” where you only get a count on it if you do 100% of all damage to kill someone. That will encourage some people to stop zerging and get some lone wolfs etc that add to the fun.

Stat tracking, titles, such things as that sound perfect to me. No complaints here.

I don’t know if it has been mentioned, but including these return links at the top of page on the bottom of the page as well would be a MASSIVE improvement.

Reading a page full of posts means you have to scroll all the way back up to click on the forum link again and get a refreshed list of forum posts. It gets annoying.

tarnin.1690:

Sky.9347:

tarnin.1690:

krakenstar.1674:

I think 2-3x is plenty. And totally fair they can’t even whine about it because you beat them with SKILL alone and not some BS instant cleanse/root.

Yes, its possible to chew through an entire zerg in DAoC 8man. … entire zerg of lowbies. Because

1. realm abilities were totally OP at the higher levels.
2. AoE limitations GW2
3. downstates and resurrection even from dead.

GW2 is a different game – that can and will improve over time. And I suspect, even if DAoC has the same playerbase as it use to, I’d still be playing here. Simply because I’d HATE to grind through RR12 while getting beat on by the so called “elite” simply because they were there before I was, all my abilities null and void because of their OP instants, and only way to get RP was to kill them for it, when they can roll over 5-6x our numbers.

I quit when both my mains were RR10. i brought my eld up from 1 to 10 when there were 11 and 12’s and never had an issue. Not sure RR’s were a disparity but no where near as huge as people are making it out to be. ORIGINAL rr’s yes. 100% MoC was just wrong. The downed state imo is kinda dumb. You kill the person but they really not dead. You have to kill them AGAIN then they are dead. Makes burst dmg kinda poinless when you burst down or train someone then have to kill them again or stand around for a few seconds trying to plant on them and hope their “haha you cant kill me” death ability isnt up.

Sky, you can and cant. an 8man cannot chew them up for very long because of the aoe onto walls that chews up the cannons and the person running it (you cant use abilities while on seige so you have to leave the seige, heal, pop back on). Also you cannot repair seige. Any nub can spam up aoe on the walls with ease.

That’s true, AoE on the walls is dangerous. In a lot of places though there are spots you can stick carts and ballista and cats that can’t be easily reached by such horrible “scrub” players.

Arrow carts as a primary example. Most people don’t even try to place them properly, but if you put them near the back of the wall preferably behind a parapet most AoE won’t reach it and with a little camera angling you can decimate anyone near the door or walls.

Ya, what is with that. I see people planting arrow carts RIGHT next to a cannon or on the edge of a wall. You KNOW its going to get AoE’d down in seconds. No thought at all, but thats not a game issue, thats a player issue.

People will learn. Guys like us here on the forums probably spend most of our time playing W3. Most people don’t even read the forums.

We can help it along by RESPECTFULLY suggesting they try it our way. Such as:

“hey, have you ever tried putting your cart near the back of the wall where it can’t be AoE’d so easily?”

When you do place it well, it is amazing to see what 6 silver and 30 supply, OR even better 12 silver and 60 supply, can do to a zerg beating on a wall. Usually we can get the AoE to slow down on the wall and then take out the ram, which almost always ends their siege.

Unless it’s HoD. Those kittens will have 2 cats and 2 ballista set up on a hill outside the keep in about 20 seconds flat. kittens.

tarnin.1690:

krakenstar.1674:

I think 2-3x is plenty. And totally fair they can’t even whine about it because you beat them with SKILL alone and not some BS instant cleanse/root.

Yes, its possible to chew through an entire zerg in DAoC 8man. … entire zerg of lowbies. Because

1. realm abilities were totally OP at the higher levels.
2. AoE limitations GW2
3. downstates and resurrection even from dead.

GW2 is a different game – that can and will improve over time. And I suspect, even if DAoC has the same playerbase as it use to, I’d still be playing here. Simply because I’d HATE to grind through RR12 while getting beat on by the so called “elite” simply because they were there before I was, all my abilities null and void because of their OP instants, and only way to get RP was to kill them for it, when they can roll over 5-6x our numbers.

I quit when both my mains were RR10. i brought my eld up from 1 to 10 when there were 11 and 12’s and never had an issue. Not sure RR’s were a disparity but no where near as huge as people are making it out to be. ORIGINAL rr’s yes. 100% MoC was just wrong. The downed state imo is kinda dumb. You kill the person but they really not dead. You have to kill them AGAIN then they are dead. Makes burst dmg kinda poinless when you burst down or train someone then have to kill them again or stand around for a few seconds trying to plant on them and hope their “haha you cant kill me” death ability isnt up.

Sky, you can and cant. an 8man cannot chew them up for very long because of the aoe onto walls that chews up the cannons and the person running it (you cant use abilities while on seige so you have to leave the seige, heal, pop back on). Also you cannot repair seige. Any nub can spam up aoe on the walls with ease.

That’s true, AoE on the walls is dangerous. In a lot of places though there are spots you can stick carts and ballista and cats that can’t be easily reached by such horrible “scrub” players.

Arrow carts as a primary example. Most people don’t even try to place them properly, but if you put them near the back of the wall preferably behind a parapet most AoE won’t reach it and with a little camera angling you can decimate anyone near the door or walls.

Vaius.4376:

This already happened. We all saw how it went down.

But now it’s going to happen again WITH that knowledge. Information changes behavior.

Gavello.2813:

Just to clarify how the influence system works.

The reason it is limited to a server is because guilds are account bound you can have people on different servers and each server has its own influence counter. You never lose your influence when you transfer server, it just stays on that particular server.

So you can transfer and if it doesnt work out you cans imply return toy our old server and your influence would already be there.

PS. Our guild has fulled maxed out upgrades on our old server yet we haven’t been over there for a while now, though we’ve already recovered all the upgrades on our new server. The sooner you transfer, the less of a problem it becomes since you can then start earning influence on the new server sooner.

Also is there a reason for politics level 5? Doesn’t seem like it does anything, might buy it at one point when we have a tonne of influence left over at some point after finishing our last architecture upgrade.

I did not know that, thank you for educating me.

Wildman.9641:

WvW is a small part of a huge PvE game. They will not be dumping much money into it. It is an after thought so we have what we have.

That is incredibly pessimistic. I have seen ANet thus far make really good decisions, and continue to act in accordance with their stated design philosophy despite massive forum whining.

For example… for all of this fluff about night capping and proposed solutions and flames and all that, their response thus far has been:

“It is a 24/7 persistent world, and is not designed to be balanced”
“We are finding a way for guilds to keep influence when transferring servers”
“The community can solve this problem themselves”

Whether you like it or not, you have to admit that they are taking steps that are wise, and small. Small is important because overreacting can kill the game.

Spawn.7014:

There is nothing wrong with WvW. get your team to work togeather and you will reap the rewards.

the highist ranked servers all work togeather as a team to win. if you think your going in solo and winning your kidding your self and need to go back to WoW. transfer to a top tear server and see the difference. and then leave because we have long Q times

I think you missed the boat on this one, Spawn.

tarnin.1690:

Sky.9347:

tarnin.1690:

krakenstar.1674:

Sky.9347:

tarnin.1690:

With cooldowns, a pug zerg will win 100% of the time unless you run. They will eventually over run you. You can only dodge so much, you can only hit your abilities so often, etc… Cool downs even the playing field, which ANet wants. no matter how good you are a mass of slobbering scrubs will just eventually steamroll over you.

It sounds like you are talking about a situation where you are vastly outnumbered.

I think you should lose in that type of situation. If the numbers are somewhat close to even, I have a strong feeling you are going to inflict some major pain on that pug-zerg, and may even fracture their cohesion.

If the numbers are closer to equal, it isn’t the same situation.

20 very casual players dabbling in W3 vs. 10 W3 veterans who spend nearly everyday fighting for their homeworld

I almost garuntee the 10 vets will win that everytime. Even outnumbered 2:1. Even without any major mechanical advantage.

This has been my experience in RvR as well. I cannot claim to be great at this game yet as I’m an old man now and no longer game as I use to. But when I’m on comms with a small group of 5 we can usually take out 8.. maybe 10. You can tell who is skilled and who is not straight away. And we have been only at RvR together for a week as we have jobs and kids. 3 of 5 are DAoC days all the way from beta DAoC.

If you’re being run over by mass of slobbering scrubs because you’re on cooldowns, it is your fault and you’re just as scrubby as they are for failing to properly assess the situation. You’ve taken on more than you can chew.

Learn to burst 1 down, kill him off, back up, swap weapon, pressure and heal up, swap to burst, and re-engage and repeat. Properly made roaming-killing team of 5 made to for a nice team romp will not have problems killing 10 “generic WvW solo” PUGs. If you do, learn to play better GW2.

So please, not every who disagree with you about RPs and realm ranks are scrubs or WoW kids. Now there are problems right now that makes the 8v8 or small man days hard to accomplish here.

1 – Maps needs to be bigger. about 2x distances from one objective to another at least. Right now its hard to roam without running into the zerg, outside a handful of out of the way places. fighting at those places is getting boring.

2 – Invisible peoples! A few times we’ve engage thinking that we can take them, when they are actually 3-4 times the size. Now we tend to face off and circle for quite a bit (maybe 30 – 45 seconds) to wait for everyone to load before we engage. This sucks and we lose the surprise -shock troop advantage.

3 – hackers. stop the speedhackers. Due to our team composition and skill choice we know when some are abnormally fast because our team is made to Roam FAST. The hackers have it on a 10%-15% speed increase so they are not noticeable but they are noticeable to us.

I said it was possible to kill 2x or even 3x your numbers, after that forget it. they just slobber on you and you are done. If you played DAoC you know a good 8man could extend out 5x to 6x their numbers and chew them up. You cannot do that here. Not sure it was realm ranks either or the weird downed state this game uses because of no direct healers. It’s even much harder to play extend when anyone can dodge roll though snares.

I think being able to kill 2x or maybe 3x your number is impressive.

I think being able to kill 5x or 6x your number is imbalanced.

You said before (I only played DAoC for maybe a week) that a good 8 man group could hold off 100 “scrubs”. You don’t see a problem with that? I do.

I see no issue with that at all. Want to know why? The scrubs were bad, really bad. Just run head long into you as you extended. It was a meat grinder. like every other mmo there is a range to healing. they would just run out of that range into your extending group and die. if you had enough room behind you, you could extend forever and they would contently just run out of tether range and get chewed up. It wasn’t over powered at all, it was good players killing people who really had 0 clue how to play something team based. in this game, you run into the issue of cool downs and people being able to dodge roll though snares/traps/etc… Even a noob can go “oh red circle, dodge”

If they were really that bad, those 8 players inside a keep with some siege weapons (dual cannons, anyone?) would create that same meat grinder.

Have you ever seen a zerg break themselves against the strength of an upgraded and wisely fortified tower? I have, and it is delicious.

EDIT: Unless they have Vigor (which you can see), everyone can dodge twice. Bait the dodges, then unleash hell.

I think either 1 week, OR 1 quarter year.

Seriously, 1 week matches give you a weekend and a full week. Three month long matches (if they can fix the snowball affect) would satisfy rivalries.

tarnin.1690:

krakenstar.1674:

Sky.9347:

tarnin.1690:

With cooldowns, a pug zerg will win 100% of the time unless you run. They will eventually over run you. You can only dodge so much, you can only hit your abilities so often, etc… Cool downs even the playing field, which ANet wants. no matter how good you are a mass of slobbering scrubs will just eventually steamroll over you.

It sounds like you are talking about a situation where you are vastly outnumbered.

I think you should lose in that type of situation. If the numbers are somewhat close to even, I have a strong feeling you are going to inflict some major pain on that pug-zerg, and may even fracture their cohesion.

If the numbers are closer to equal, it isn’t the same situation.

20 very casual players dabbling in W3 vs. 10 W3 veterans who spend nearly everyday fighting for their homeworld

I almost garuntee the 10 vets will win that everytime. Even outnumbered 2:1. Even without any major mechanical advantage.

This has been my experience in RvR as well. I cannot claim to be great at this game yet as I’m an old man now and no longer game as I use to. But when I’m on comms with a small group of 5 we can usually take out 8.. maybe 10. You can tell who is skilled and who is not straight away. And we have been only at RvR together for a week as we have jobs and kids. 3 of 5 are DAoC days all the way from beta DAoC.

If you’re being run over by mass of slobbering scrubs because you’re on cooldowns, it is your fault and you’re just as scrubby as they are for failing to properly assess the situation. You’ve taken on more than you can chew.

Learn to burst 1 down, kill him off, back up, swap weapon, pressure and heal up, swap to burst, and re-engage and repeat. Properly made roaming-killing team of 5 made to for a nice team romp will not have problems killing 10 “generic WvW solo” PUGs. If you do, learn to play better GW2.

So please, not every who disagree with you about RPs and realm ranks are scrubs or WoW kids. Now there are problems right now that makes the 8v8 or small man days hard to accomplish here.

1 – Maps needs to be bigger. about 2x distances from one objective to another at least. Right now its hard to roam without running into the zerg, outside a handful of out of the way places. fighting at those places is getting boring.

2 – Invisible peoples! A few times we’ve engage thinking that we can take them, when they are actually 3-4 times the size. Now we tend to face off and circle for quite a bit (maybe 30 – 45 seconds) to wait for everyone to load before we engage. This sucks and we lose the surprise -shock troop advantage.

3 – hackers. stop the speedhackers. Due to our team composition and skill choice we know when some are abnormally fast because our team is made to Roam FAST. The hackers have it on a 10%-15% speed increase so they are not noticeable but they are noticeable to us.

I said it was possible to kill 2x or even 3x your numbers, after that forget it. they just slobber on you and you are done. If you played DAoC you know a good 8man could extend out 5x to 6x their numbers and chew them up. You cannot do that here. Not sure it was realm ranks either or the weird downed state this game uses because of no direct healers. It’s even much harder to play extend when anyone can dodge roll though snares.

I think being able to kill 2x or maybe 3x your number is impressive.

I think being able to kill 5x or 6x your number is imbalanced.

You said before (I only played DAoC for maybe a week) that a good 8 man group could hold off 100 “scrubs”. You don’t see a problem with that? I do.

Hawkens.3894:

PS2 sucks anyway.

W3 Rocks!
Not only do I love the W3 in GW2 but then they added this nice forums where I can sit at work and get my daily laugh or two or three.

+1

tarnin.1690:

Sky.9347:

Okay, a second plan then.

What we should do is scale everyone to 80, and give them full access to all traits, gear, runes, skills, etc.

Okay so then, we need to eliminate the effect of zerging – so change it to a 5v5 or 8v8 format.

Finally, since we don’t want this affecting PvE in any way, we need to put this in an entirely separate place from the normal map and turn off all XP/Karma/Coin gains.

It would be truly fair, and structured. It could even be used to conduct tournaments.

Thats CRAZY talk! What is wrong with you. Come here, i have this nice jacket to keep you warm.

Well you have to admit it is totally original, balanced, and completely unique to anything that has ever been done or tried before.

And yes, I came up with it all on my own.

eladox.3457:

Looks like someone finally found a game he can win while smashing his head on keyboard.
Enjoy your delusion.

Do you really believe this about GW2?

Okay, a second plan then.

What we should do is scale everyone to 80, and give them full access to all traits, gear, runes, skills, etc.

Okay so then, we need to eliminate the effect of zerging – so change it to a 5v5 or 8v8 format.

Finally, since we don’t want this affecting PvE in any way, we need to put this in an entirely separate place from the normal map and turn off all XP/Karma/Coin gains.

It would be truly fair, and structured. It could even be used to conduct tournaments.

I root for Tarnished Coast in any matchup they have.

I also tend to root for Kaineng.

Although I agree there is a problem with the W3 population (frequent players) being spread unevenly throughout the servers…

… most of those threads turn into very disgusting trolling and flaming. Very few of them are helpful in any way, or offer anything new to the discussion.

ANet has already said they are looking at ways to let guilds keep their influence when transferring servers. THIS is a possible solution! They are finding a way to do it! They said so!!!

What more could we really ask for at this point…? (Reasonably, I mean)

The true solution is simple:

Every player on your side lines up single file. The opposing servers do the same. Then we all send 1 guy in at a time through SM outer doors, and do not send the next guy in line until the first has died.

100% balanced 1v1v1 combat. Done.

If by “snacks” you mean Scotch whiskey and cigars – CHECK.

tarnin.1690:

Von.2790:

I think we’re just going around in circles at this point folks.

We are, I’m just hoping the dev’s dont listen to them. They want bland and ezmode. That never sustains a game. We want progression and complexity. That DOES sustain a game. The people who would flee if they made the game more complex would never stay after 6months anyway.

Using the word “complex” doesn’t encompass what you’re arguing for here, though.

Complexity is fine, even desirable. Mechanical advantages over other players is not.

Perhaps it is a slight distinction, but I think it is an important one that could affect your chances of success with the development team.

Niim.9260:

Reve.3578:

I would really like for an Anet person to respond to this. This is literally exactly whats happening. People predicted that the bottom 2 would attack the top server but why would you when you can just keep the bottom server down. Ending up in 2nd place is better then 3rd.

Why? Why is ending 2nd place better then 3rd?

Coming in second after spending a week being base camped by a dominate server was rewarding in what way?

Coming in 3rd after teaming up with the team that came in 2nd to push the dominate server back and at least make a fight of it, seems like a better way to spend the week.

Placing is a meaningless reward, enjoyment of WvW however is why we are all playing and thus the only important reward.

If I played against the same 2 guys a lot, and I always got 3rd… I have a couple options.

1) I can go balls-to-the-wall after #2 and hope to displace him.
2) I can call an unofficial truce with #2, and together beat #1 down to #3, thus moving up to 2nd.

Right now most servers are going with the first option. I think eventually, a lot of people will begin seeing the second option as viable and attractive.

Someone in another post nailed it, I think.

ANet did not expect WvW to be as popular as it is. Therefore, it was released with far less fluff than sPvP and tPvP. I am certain they are working on things to achieve.

As an example… eventually #5 and #6 servers will get tired of being beaten by #4. They will come to terms with each other, and begin punishing #4 for the entire match.

When that starts to happen, server matches will shuffle up a bit because #5 might end up fighting with #1 and #2, with their time tested tactic of alliance against the big-dog.

I imagine this could happen all the way down the rank charts.

Last night in EB was a blast. Breaking HoDs hold on Danelon felt good, and being the first guy through the chokepoint to destroy those ballista was the highlight of my night.

Great fights, gentlemen. Keep it coming.

Niim.9260:

Is there any information available on population at different hours of the day? Given the nature of WvW I really think population balancing needs to be considered by different times of the day. It would be nice if the servers were listed for population in three hour blocks, highlighting those that are too high now, to low, or just right.

This would be a good tool, allowing folks to make smart transfers.

There are graphs posted from ANet regarding the number of people in W3 queue during a 4 day period.

Not sure if that would suit your purposes, but it is here on the forums somewhere.

Yes.

I do hope that they take care of the hacks and obvious exploits before then, but I understand that is sometimes very difficult and honestly it hasn’t directly affected me much yet.

Ilesyt.7084:

Have you guys read this ?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Update-on-guild-related-topics
Look at the last few sentences.

Awesome-sauce.

I am all behind this. I also think it is coming.

I for one, want them to focus attention on fixing the bugs that exist in the current W3 games, eliminating cheaters and hacks, and perhaps look at overall server populations first.

THEN – bring the data/cosmetic rewards!

I think there is a lot here we can agree on.

I would LOVE to see things like the Map Completion Badge designed for WvW. Little icons that display prominently next to your name, showing some sort of rank or achievement. Make it SUPER hard to get, something that a guy like me would probably never finish.

More customization sounds awesome to me. Super rare skins, or dyes, or even insignia for guilds to re-make their guild crest if they are heavy into WvW… all excellent stuff.

If anyone puts up a thread with these things, I will be there promoting it and begging ANet to listen to it.

Von.2790:

Sky.9347:

You do gain notoriety, infamy, bragging rights.

When you play a lot of W3, you play with the same people on your team. You get to know one another, and the cream rises to the top.

When you play against a rival server (with a similar rank), you get to know the guilds on that server. Individual names don’t mean anything – guilds do.

I think a lot of you guys are just getting burnt out, and without a constant incentive to play your mind is telling you it’s time to take a break. That might be a new feeling for you, but maybe you should abide by it and just take a break for a while.

I have no idea how or why you would fully max your character out so early in the game. Obviously just a playstyle difference, but I can imagine if I was in your shoes I would be a little burnt out too.

Maybe go play a subscription game and chase a carrot for a while. I predict you’ll be back.

Please stop trying to rationalize what must be wrong with us that we’re not like you. We’re different people with different personalities. I don’t call you a bland human being, or OCD for liking the same thing over and over again. We get the point, you don’t want any potentially unbalancing additions.

Well, thank you for getting my point.

I did not mean to say there is anything wrong with anyone who doesn’t agree. I am just trying to forcefully argue against it, and point out that GW2 was designed with a philosophy that is directly opposed to this suggestion.

I apologize if anything I have said was taken personally or offensively. It is not my intention or my purpose.

PS – I still think you’re wrong. ;-)

^ well written, I agree with you

tarnin.1690:

krakenstar.1674:

tarnin.1690:

MarkyMark.2807:

@jimdove – you were on Excalibur? – that was EU wasn’t it? – I was on that server! – 2001-2004 I think it was

I mentioned in another post that I agree with people saying we shouldn’t just turn GW2 pvp into DAoC pvp, but I don’t see why we can’t take the good ideas and learn from it to make GW2 the ultimate pvp?

I don’t want any extra abilities, etc – like RR5 used to give you effective lvl 51 – and RR10 gave you so many extra abilities it was just too hard for others to compete. But I think titles like ‘Sea of Sorrows OMGIKEELYOU’ rather than ‘Sea of Sorrows Invader’ would be a neat addition that can do no harm and helps give those who want a sense of progression exactly that.

Also think Darkness Falls would be a neat idea – I know Mike has already commented on the possibility of something like that appearing.

I certainly think WvW has a ton of potential, it just needs some tweaking from Anet to make it reach that potential.

Realm Abilities got to be over powered the higher up you went and the more you had. My suggestion is to add Talent Points for RR’s and RR sub dings. So, one talent point for 1.1, when you hit RR2 you get another chooseable ability. If that’s too over powered, how about the Champion Levels they added later? Those were much more of a sideways progression instead of straight up.

I hit 50 on a prince run in DF while fighting off albs who were recently locked out. It was an epic night. Next day I got my epic armor (what do you mean we share the same skin as a a BM! argh!) At the time epic armor was still kinda new so everyone gawked, it was great! Big huge firby in epic armor! Back then they even had resistances to things NOT in the game, were broken, or were way to specific, like Darkness and what not.

Really, I just want some kinda reason to WvW. The world is too small right now to roam and there is really no reason to WvW outside of killing things which will get old soon enough. I like progression in a chracter, this is an RPG after all.

The main issue here is that even if I WvW none stop, and kill 100k people, I will be no better off toon wise than some scrub who ground out tokens in a dungeon and jumped in with 0 kills. * Oh, my skill will be higher, but the toons will be equal. * Makes no sense to me.

That, and you have a tight crew that understands the dynamics of RvR because you’ve been mashing brains while they grind dungeon mobs. How to gauge opponent strength, engagement distance, which skills to dodge, when to chase and when to flee, etc, etc etc, should be enough right there. If you’re still getting rolled by PUG zergs that pop in to have some casual random fun, you’re not as good as you think you are.

With cooldowns, a pug zerg will win 100% of the time unless you run. They will eventually over run you. You can only dodge so much, you can only hit your abilities so often, etc… Cool downs even the playing field, which ANet wants. no matter how good you are a mass of slobbering scrubs will just eventually steamroll over you.

It sounds like you are talking about a situation where you are vastly outnumbered.

I think you should lose in that type of situation. If the numbers are somewhat close to even, I have a strong feeling you are going to inflict some major pain on that pug-zerg, and may even fracture their cohesion.

If the numbers are closer to equal, it isn’t the same situation.

20 very casual players dabbling in W3 vs. 10 W3 veterans who spend nearly everyday fighting for their homeworld

I almost garuntee the 10 vets will win that everytime. Even outnumbered 2:1. Even without any major mechanical advantage.

Oh – and to answer your question about how I can not be maxed out.

Well, I created every single profession… and I am leveling them all through W3. I do craft and explore the map (I ignore most hearts, unless I need some cooking vegetables or I enjoy doing whatever it is I am supposed to do) while waiting for queues, but 90% of my time is spent in W3.

Sometimes, if W3 is lacking or frustrating, I will spend my night playing sPvP which offers no PvE rewards or XP.

So I am playing the game without any real concern for being maxed out or whatever. I will get there soon (my Guardian is starting to level VERY quickly – KICKkitten GRANNIT!), but it isn’t going to change the way I play the game.