I’d like to see skyhammer moved into the waste bin, but that’s just me.
As has been mentioned before, there are hardly any guards in the ESL championships. All players need is to have ESL level skill and they’ll have no problem dealing with guards. No balance needed just l2p issue.
The problem I have is that stability is not balanced amongst the different classes. There is now an abundance of cc skills, but some classes have a far easier time mitigating that than others. Would be better if there was a trade off but there isn’t:
You guys are right. Guard is massively underpowered. Looking forward to some serious buffs in that class.
Try engineer – scrapper. Good sustain and good damage.
you’re comparing thief to 2 classes that are currently at the top of the meta. All things being equal, yes, a thief may be inferior to those 2 classes, but so are most. Im sure Eles and Necros would love to chat with you about who has it worse.
The problem is that there is no good metric for an individual’s performance. I believe your win rate is what the game tracks and that doesnt always reflect your actaul skill. You could be carried by better players or dragged down by less skilled performers. Not sure how they can make a system that could weigh your specific performance.
In theory, better players would likely win more, but it really depends on who they get matched up with and against.
1. Going 1/3/1 is a high tier gameplay because:
a. It requires coordination of classes to ensure you have bunker/support against burst
b. It requires that the 1 can cap/kill on their point quickly to rotate to support mid quickly.
c. It requires that the 1 at far will pull off if the 3v4 is going poorly to potentially create a play at mid2. 4/1 is the standard split because:
a. It is the strategy that most average/casual players know the most.
b. It allows for a better rotation to far if you win mid or to support home if home gets +1’d.
c. It help support players who may not be the best at their classes since they are more likely to die in large team fights.Most people, when losing a mid fight, don’t know how to properly rotate back in AND get frustrated with the loss which can demoralize the team. In my opinion, it’s always best to get the most kills at open in average rated games and then snowball caps AFTER you win the team fight. If you control when your opponents spawn then you can control where they will be when you need to rotate. It gains you nothing to get 2 caps on far/home but lose 2+ team mates to mid and have to rotate off mid.
I agree that going 1-3-1 requires is high tier in that it requires good and knowledgeable players on your team. It certainly can work with favorable match ups. But that assumes that the player going far is more skilled than the enemy player at that point. Most of my games in ranked have been soloQ and I cant reliably coordinate with ppl. So I prefer 1-4 as it is less risk but certainly less reward.
As long as you have team based games, I don’t know how you can fix it. PvP is a team game. No matter how good or bad you are, you are 1/5th of that team. You can still win games when you don’t play your best if others on your team play theirs. It happens in all types of team games regardless of the sport.
Always see people complaining that their team mates don’t know how to rotate or get out rotated. So what’s the best strategy?
I find that if both teams are equally skilled, then focusing on holding 2 points works best. Pushing for all 3 usually means your team is outnumbered at 2 of 3 pts. Which if equally matched means your team loses those fights.
My strategy is to try and hold 2 pts for majority of the match. Some maps have additional objectives but holding 2 pts still usually wins the match.
I look to either be in even fights or ideally +1 in the fight. If I die and respawning, I avoid running into a point outnumbered unless trying to prevent cap/decap if near end of match.
Ideally I like to hold mid and home because they’re close enough together to rotate back and forth to support your team mates and +1 fights.
Usually like 1 home 4 mid at start but obviously team composition influences that. Find that 1-3-1 often leads to mid team being outnumbered and potentially wiping. Even if far caps, enemies then rotate numbers to recap it.
What does everyone else prefer?
It may be that you or your team were just implementing different strategies. Pushing far can work but it often leaves your other team mates outnumbered at mid. If they can’t disengage that can lead to a team wipe. It really depends on your specific team make up and properly communicating to let them know you are going far.
I’m so tired of losing a pip because some dude either disconnects or drops out during the match. They eventually rejoin, but by then its too late and the other team pulls ahead. Stop costing us pips if we don’t have a full team. I don’t care if they come back at the end, the match is lost.
I’ve had this happen so many times. Dont care in unranked, but in ranked it kills you. Please change that policy. The person that drops can lose a pip or two so it discourages that behavior.
Sounds like your team rode on the shoulders of that rifle warrior to victory!!! I prefer bunker thieves myself.
Lol. The necro GS reminds me a lot of the high damage ele skills in pvp. When you use them, your character first makes a loud announcement that they are using a skill, wait for all involved parties to acknowledge receipt of said announcement, and then slowly execute over a minute or two.
Crazy thought here guys, Rotate around the DH? or use skills that trigger traps, like Rev hammer. rangers send there pets in Ele, use the Earth f4 skill. I’m sure there are more. Guards are slow, so it’s easy to out rotate a team stacked with them.
Also if the person playing Guard is better at playing guard than you are playing the class you are playing, then you’ll lose no matter what.
Not all the guard problems are down to the class being “OP”, it’s down to you not being as good as you think you are.
Not to sound picky, but if you are promoting the strategy of avoiding a particular class on the map, that does make it sound OP.
Currently there are some classes that don’t have pvp builds that are in the meta.
I have noticed that often the most vocal and disruptive players tend to be the least skilled or experienced on the team. They often are used to a certain play style and if anything deviates from it, they assume their team stinks. They are often unfamiliar with other classes and builds and assume they all play the same way. I’ve frequently seen players yell at thieves when they are doing exactly what a thief should – decamping points, +1ing fights, etc,
I think some people overestimate their skill and feel entitled to wins. Yes, it does suck when you lose and especially when it’s because of poor play it strategy, but the toxicity just makes it 20 times worse.
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Both pips and rating can be used within the system if they are focused on solving specific problems – not all of them.
PIPS to grind rewards.
Rating or Ranking to show prestige.
But don’t forget, Ranking to match similar Ranked together versus similar Ranked together. So, it would like (casual, casual, casual, casual, casual) vs. (casual, casual, casual, casual, casual) or (decent, decent, decent, decent, decent) vs. (decent, decent, decent, decent, decent).
The rating / ranking is just not to show prestige, is to help match-making put people of equal skills together so the matches are more “fair”.
Fully agree with above.
I play about 3 classes so I can usually reroll if needed, but I’d still argue point 2. I’d rather have people play their preferred class then play one they’re not as skilled at. You assume a certain set strategy for maps but teams can often adapt their play style depending on their composition. Being fixed to a certain map strategy is just as limiting as being fixed to a certain class.
Balance is a constantly changing process. There is a lot of crying wolf but there are also legitimate concerns. I’m sure they aren’t making changes based solely on a few complaints. And if prefer that players do give feedback. It’s up to the developers to sort through what is legit and not.
I agree that the teaching tools are lacking. Part of how you learn is by simple repetition. The more you play, the better you get. But I’ve learned valuable things by tips from more experienced players when I was first starting out. How to rotate on certain maps, what skills to interrupt, fudge or look out for on certain builds, etc
It certainly can be frustrating when you are on a team with subpar players, but that’s frequently the nature of unranked pvp. That’s where new players should start or where players should try out new builds and style.
If you’re getting suspensions for shouting snd cursing at your team mates, that’s on you. I fail to see how that improves the situation you are in or has any positive contribution. I’ve had plenty of poor players on my tesm but I usually try to instruct or give them tips. No one likes losing but it happens especially in team oriented games where you can’t depend solely on yourself.
There is a mmr in unranked that is different than the ranked system. Not sure exactly how it works but I’ve had varying levels of skills on most of my teams.
Thanks for all the advice. Very helpful.
Solid advice from gavyn. Sad reality is that focus necro first has been standard operating procedure of team fights since release.
For some inexplicable reason, Anet refuses to acknowledge or address that our “2 health bars” are inferior in virtually every way to the healing and active defenses of the other classes. I can sustain for ages with a 15k hp dh roaming in wvw, same fight as a necro I’d be dead in 20 seconds. That’s our illustrious “theme” I guess.
That’s a great point. IMO damage mitigation skills are far better than extra health. I’ve played other classes where I can survive being focused because I can avoid the damage. With the current metas, extra health just seems to get burned
Newer to necro than some, but every match I play necro I get brunt of enemy focus. I run version of corruptionmancer. Staff and s/wh.
Usually go mid because I’m not good in 1v1 on necro. Stay in staff and hang way back or use terrain to try and range. Doesn’t matter. Enemies run past my 3 other players and focus me 80% of time. I can usually survive long enough to build up some life force. Can transfer condis and clear some. When health down low, I swap to shroud. But then either I get hit by numerous conditions including cripple and immobilize, get moa’d, or just get straight up burned down.
Other than dodges, I haven’t found any way to mitigate damage. Heals seem weak. Any tips on playing this more effectively? I guess plague trait can cleanse condis while in shroud but doesn’t do much for me.
I had a disconnect. Got back into the match, we come back and win. I lose pip and get dishonor for “desertion” despite being top scorer and netting 12 kills. Go figure.
yes, there is many factors but to what i see the #1 reason is players just giving up after a huge lead by enemy. this game or should i say pvp is very snowball friendly.
Agree x 100. I’ve comeback countless times from being down big. A match can quickly snowball one way or another.
I hate when people just give up, especially early on if they lose the mid fight. Or worse when they start cursing and yelling at each other in team chat. Just play the kitten game.
I understand that we have great players that can perform well regardless of class or build, but assuming all other things equal, what classes are at biggest disadvantage?
This ranked season, I’ve only encountered a hand full of eles and they seemed rather easy to put down. After that, maybe necro then thief? Though, thief seems to be very viable when played correctly but it has a narrow window for that
People complain DH OP but Mesmer, warrior, Druid, and engineer still have solid builds and may be better on higher end. Thoughts?
Sure give Guardians access to another life bar (yay to more HP) and your condis (only having access to fire is so boring and easy to cleanse), then we consider trading you some blocks.
Have your people contact my people to discuss details.
I am sure – and it was pointed out by somebody above – that most necros would happily trade shroud for dh’s blocks any time of the day, same goes for necro’s condi application vs DH’s dps. Deal.
Cool lets ask Anet…because having played guardian since i started the game i would love to have more HP and access to a decent condi spec. The reason why we have so many blocks is because with out them we can be 2 shotted by a power spec class.
You’re right DH definitely needs a huge buff. It’s a vastly underwhelming profession this season. Hardly see anyone playing it and forums are full of people crying about how underpowered it is. Most matches I’ve played, I’ve seen only 2 to 3 DHs per team, tops.????
Given the power creep in the game, the extra life from shroud is not as impactful as in past. Unfortunately, necros have extremely limited damage mitigation abilities which is why every team I play on ALWAYS focuses the necro first.
As far as I know, when in shroud, necros have no way to clear conditions – at least not on the popular ones I’ve seen. So if they do manage to get shroud up, they get condi spammed, immobilized and pounded into dirt. Mesmer can easily moa shroud rendering it useless. Yes you can dodge moa but it’s not that easy in team fight.
It is frustrating when you have subpar players on your team, especially at higher tiers. Some with bad players that don’t understand their builds, some with players that don’t understand the strategy on the map. I had 4 ppl on same beast and still have it stolen by thief. Had 1 person on treb and 2 team mates defending him. Etc. etc.
Part of problem is that there are very few resources for people to learn how to pvp effectively. Metabattle lists some builds but doesn’t really go into depth on how to play them or class. Could use more in detail descriptions. Also be nice to have better guides for maps and strategy. Better guides for playing a class and playing against other common builds.
Lots of veteran players have left, but there is plenty of fresh blood. Just need to find ways to get them up to speed.
If you feel that way, have anet bring back celestial smulet
I can’t consistently win 1v2’s at any tier let alone legend. Unless the players are really bad, it’s extremely difficult. I’ve often been able to down a player but I can’t stomp with the other one up. Not sure how everyone consistently wins 1v2s. Unless you mean 2v1?
I agree with the above people. Whenever I play necro, I always get focused. I make sure I lag behind my team, seek elevated terrain and hang back with staff. Doesn’t matter. Decent enemy teams see you and are on you immediately. It’s not a simple l2p issue.
I’ve seen that happen a lot on Zerg teams. They rack up kills but never hold more than 1 or.
I see blowouts all the time even with equally skilled teams. There are so many factors that play into a winning or losing strategy.
I do not want to sound poophole-ish but I have tried ele after patch and it is still better than some professions. True, there are some problems, but a little tanky-ish build or classic scepter focus (air spam is reduced, that bugs me) can still work. D/F with air-earth-tempest still does wonders if you do not play against a heavy condi build (chrono mesmers especially).
With staff roaming (yep, I did a stupid thing like that) I used arcane, air (lightning rod) and tempest with soldier set and zerker trinkets. Still bugs people but that is all it can do.
Sadly if you want to survive, durability runes are kind of a requirement.
Currently it’s most likely the worst profession in pvp. You can have some viable builds but they have no where near the utility of the other classes meta builds. In higher match ups, ele is just not viable currently. Sure you can have good players that can play well but all other things being equal, they’re still at a disadvantage.
You mean like how WoW did it?
Honestly, I’ve found that the most toxic and vocal players aren’t half as good as they think. I suspect they may get used to being carried by better players and throw tantrums in chat when that isnt the case. I’ve had a few matches where some teammate is screaming in team chat about how bad a player or the team is. Then when he see them play, they’re subpar in tactics and play.
I hope nothing. The Ascension was toxic to PvP and to the game as a whole.
The only thing that was toxic was being forced to play other classes when we only main 1 or two. I’m tired of the, “I don’t main this class but I need the rewards” mentality.It just skews matchmaking even further.
We can have challenging rewards without needing to swap classes to do so. Knowing you have that 1 person who doesn’t main a class and gets obliterated on point, can be very frustrating.
Completely agree with you on that saiyan. Fun to try new classes but not during ranked because your rating doesn’t reflect it.
We’ve been talking about personal score a bit. I’m personally of the opinion that it isn’t representative of a player’s effort in a given match, and it also can be incredibly misleading and potentially lead to bad gameplay habits (5-capping home).
If you were to redesign personal score, what would you do? Does it track different types of stats? Would you want your personal stats displayed to other players?
Hard to say. I frequently will sit and defend a point during s match. Often times a thief or other mobile class will come and try to recap. I successfully defend point and prevent recap but they run off before I can down them. So essentially you get no credit for helping your team win match.
Sounds like ele in S3. I think defending capped points should be an add for sure. How are the points awarded for Object Defender currently?
I think if you own a point and kill an enemy player in close proximity it awards you points for kill and defending point. Not positive.
If you are so awesome and hate being dragged down by terrible players, then form a team or join a pvp guild. Then you can be guaranteed to have players on the team that at least deserve to be allowed in your presence. You’ll have no problem winning and jumping up ranks.
But if you hop in soloQ, then you will get matched with random players. Some great and some novice.
I hated the matchmaking last season in soloQ because it took 10 players and put the top 5 on one team and the bottom 5 on the other. Much of the time, one team had a decided advantage. I’d rather be in a match or system that didn’t predetermine the winner. I’d like each side to – at least on paper – have an equal chance of winning. If both teams are roughly balanced then your contribution becomes more important.
Ideally, you’d only be matched with great players and be matched against great players, but that’s a hard system to create and maintain. Pvp needs new players and needs lots of players, unless you want 45 minute queues.
Pvp is a team game. Like all team games you don’t have full control over the outcome. However, Ive still found that skilled players win far more than they lose.
We’ve been talking about personal score a bit. I’m personally of the opinion that it isn’t representative of a player’s effort in a given match, and it also can be incredibly misleading and potentially lead to bad gameplay habits (5-capping home).
If you were to redesign personal score, what would you do? Does it track different types of stats? Would you want your personal stats displayed to other players?
Hard to say. I frequently will sit and defend a point during s match. Often times a thief or other mobile class will come and try to recap. I successfully defend point and prevent recap but they run off before I can down them. So essentially you get no credit for helping your team win match.
50/50 matchmaking is probably the best way to test your individual skill. You have far greater impact given that all things are otherwise equal. I much prefer this to the team stacking of last season.
I much prefer the current matchmaking season to the one last season. Now you have a bigger impact on whether your team wins. One side is no longer stacked, so your performance matters.
I’m skeptical of players that always blame their team and place no fault on themselves. You’re just as likely to have bad players on the other team as your own.
As for rotating, there are various strategies and sometimes the team is not always in synch – especially in soloQ. Given the randomness of the selection, sometimes your team composition is suboptimal and you get poor match ups. Many people have a preferred class and can’t switch to an equally skilled toon.
I know it’s sucks to main ele right now so let’s light up the mood with some jokes.
What is the the easiest way to kill ele in pvp?
Use moa…rangers pet.
Eles are extremely hard to kill in pvp. Why? You can’t find them anymore. Ba dum tis
Gw2 pvp is fine. The problem lies in the fact that currently there are little to no resources that tell you how to actually pvp well. On top of being decent at your class you need to understand rotations and (to be really good) know the cooldowns of skills/traits of other classes.
As of now the tutorial doesnt teach anything outside of stomping and capping. Id also argue the general playerbase is rather noob and this is lazy playstyle is encouraged when pve mobs will literally stand in place so newcomers dont learn any reaction skills.
Agree x 1000
The 2 main classes I played in pvp were engineer and ele so imagine how I feel. Lol. Engineer is still viable though.
Little noobish when it comes to traps. Can someone explain how they work to me? Is it better to have an enemy walk across the trap or can you just drop one right at their feet? I usually do the second method because I can guarantee a hit but am I losing damage? Also, once trap imagery activates is damage done or can enemy still dodge to avoid? Thanks.