Guild Wars 2

Why can’t you people play every other kittening game out there that already suits your needs.

Why can’t you understand the people complaining now are doing so because they were promised a different game?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/You-NEED-to-make-a-statement

^Basically, I echo the sentiment of the OP.

This is the most boring thing I have ever done in my LIFE.

I can’t remember the last time I experienced such incredible tedium. And I’ve had really menial jobs in the past.

That is how incredibly kittening boring this event is. By the time I saw the second event of killing the Ancient Karka’s adds I knew I didn’t have it in me to continue.

Join a server and watch map chat then come back to me and tell me that this is all the conspiracy of the “vocal forum minority”.

“Oh but it’s free”

So is calculus. Yet I don’t do it for recreational purposes.

I, too, would like to see Levvi again. I was up all day yesterday but the events were bugged.

Space Cow.2431:

In an effort to communicate constructively, and with that last sliver of hope that the developers still care at all, here are my personal thoughts on what new content should look like.

Please contribute as well.

Content Patches:

Do not need to be so frequent. I wouldn’t mind waiting six months to a year and then paying for an expansion pack. Nevertheless, if you want to pursue this route, please look below and consider it a template for smaller, bite-sized chunks.

Expansions:

New skills.
New weapons.
New classes.
New dungeons.
New areas.
New cosmetic grinds.
New story. Especially PERSONAL story.

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

They don’t need to make it. YOU feel they need to make it. They can just do whatever the kitten they want and they don’t need to say anything about it. $60 is pretty cheap for a leash to a company.

Yes, I as a customer feel they have broken the promise they made me and to keep ME, they need to make a statement.

Your implication is they don’t give a flying kitten. Which may very well be true, but it just proves my point.

Incidentally, if you aren’t attached to your 60€ feel free to paypal me.

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

We don’t know-

Which is why they need to make a statement…

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

I’m still not understanding how one extra tier between exotic and legendary constitutes a gear treadmill.

Pretty extreme grinding is required for the first piece of ascended gear and its infusion, and we were told there will be a full set of ascended gear down the line.

The real question is: does it stop here, or is this the new philosophy of endgame? After we’re decked out in ascendant gear, will they then present us with a new tier of gear and update the legendaries again to justify “bridging the gap”?

Eibl.8592:

I think the problem is that their ‘manifesto’ is purposefully vague, and the vast majority of the consumers interpreted that as they liked.

I think it’s quite clear in many regards. They sold me this game based on the promise that gear treadmills did not exist.

This is now utterly false.

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

Precisely. People misinterpeet or overinterpret and instantly begin the crusade against the evil, horrible Anet who stole the sunshine and happiness out of their lives.

Explain how it could be misinterpreted or your argument is void.

In an effort to communicate constructively, and with that last sliver of hope that the developers still care at all, here are my personal thoughts on what new content should look like.

Please contribute as well.

Content Patches:

Do not need to be so frequent. I wouldn’t mind waiting six months to a year and then paying for an expansion pack. Nevertheless, if you want to pursue this route, please look below and consider it a template for smaller, bite-sized chunks.

Expansions:

New skills.
New weapons.
New classes.
New dungeons.
New areas.
New cosmetic grinds.
New story. Especially PERSONAL story.

And please, don’t give us a convoluted blog post that goes on about how much you care for the community and the welfare of your beloved game, without actually addressing the very real concerns we exposed here in your forums.

I think it’s safe to say that a reasonably sized chunk of your playerbase is unhappy with the changes.

Give us some REAL, CLEAR ANSWERS, please.

Tell us if this is what we should expect in the future. Have a shred of decency and inform the ones that should be sincerely thinking about leaving. If we are indeed such a small segment of your customers then it shouldn’t really affect you (especially considering we already paid for the game and there is no monthly fee).

I’m begging you, ANet.

The philosophy of the game and their target demographic flipped completely.

Regizer.1763:

It’s dangerous because things don’t always tend to go according to plan. And ANet is learning this fact fast.

I sure hope so. It feels like we’re getting ignored so far.

stayBlind.7849:

I wish GW2 was about getting obtaining more Skills rather than attaining more gear.

:(

Yup. I miss capturing elites.

It became even more fun when they introduced heroes and then later when they removed the cap on how many you could take on a party.

By the end of the game’s lifetime it gave me great pleasure creating full party builds that worked like a well-oiled machine.

Where has that creativity gone? You can’t do anything like that in GW2.

Why is it dangerous to make a statement? If they tell me this is their design choice and how the game will work now then I will leave and you won’t hear from me again.

They already have my money, what the hell difference does it make? All I ask is that they spare me the trouble of sticking around.

Also, you’ll forgive me if I take the logical assumption that they will not revert what’s already been done, as I have never ever seen it happen in the past.

Another trend in the forums for said games (ie Blizzard forums, tbh), is to relax, that nothing is final, that the game or the patch or the expansion is in its early stages. That there’s no point in complaining or stressing out.

Yet, without fail, the worst always happens.

Regizer.1763:

You have all the rights to be worried about the future of the game but please stop assuming so much. Where does it say the point of new content is to get more gear? The way I see it is that new gear is just a part of new content. It’s not mandatory, it’s not necessary but if you want it then its there for you to obtain, if you don’t want it then fine, just enjoy the new dungeons, new pvp maps, new story driven world events.

What is there to assume? This is the nature of what they introduced.

Hell, the fact that their blog entry says “we won’t be releasing new tiers every 3 months” suggests that there’s a good chance they will be releasing new tiers eventually.

What point is there in new tiers unless they are eventually required to clear the content? It’s called power creep.

Warkupo.1025:

Again I ask, why the play the game? Why not just… I guess walk around the map until you are bored of that and then go do something else?

I’m sorry, I just don’t follow any of the thought processes here.

I like the idea that my main character is safely decked in gear that will be good for whatever I want to do whenever I want to do it.

And with the newly found free time of NOT HAVING TO SPEND IT GRINDING UPGRADES, you could, for example, level an alt. Sample the way other classes work.

Or.

Maybe work towards your legendary weapon.

Or.

Fart around knowing your time isn’t “wasted”.

With this model, the game demands that you spend your time on your main grinding gear.

Regizer.1763:

As said before this “grind” is optional. You DO NOT need ascended gear in order to finish the current available content. You DO NOT need ascended gear for WvWvW in order to stay competitive.

For starters, players on my server are already starting to demand level 80s in full exotics for their runs.

Second of all:

It’s called “slippery slope”.

The current content is built towards the gear players have at the moment. But unfortunately the point of the current content is to get MORE gear.

So that you can do the next content.

To get MORE gear.

And so on, and so forth.

They could have made the point of the content, oh I don’t know, enjoyment. Story-driven campaigns which unlocked new skills, weapons, classes. GW1 did it. It worked. I played the game from launch and loved it.

I’m incredibly upset that I was lied to and conned out of my money and time spent in the game thus far.

Elwing.7319:

Raine.1394:

It’s actually a process of grieving that everyone is going through right now.

I think that sums it up nicely.

GW1 was lovely, for me. I could happily head off and adventure on my own (with heroes to accompany me), or join a team of players and cooperatively tackle a dungeon or such like, or hop into some PvP. I could spend cash with the certainty of getting the thing I wanted for it. I didn’t need Obsidian Armor to be able to beat up Dhuum (but the option to pose in it was there if I wanted to grind for it). If I wanted to survive Spectral Agony, I just needed to run through half a mission to get my whole armor set Infused.

Maybe I’m looking at all of this through rose-tinted glasses, and things aren’t all that bad. All I know is that, up until the experiences of today, I’d be in-game right now, rather than here, mourning.

This is exactly how I feel.

Regizer.1763:

I think what ANet is trying to do is to NOT make it as easy because GW2 is a MMO and GW1 wasn’t.

Grind =/= difficulty.

Underworld in GW1 was difficult, yet we did it when we were already sporting maxed gear.

Also, I think I need to stop seeing that excuse everywhere, because you cannot tout a game such as GW2 as “different than the rest” and “tantalizing to people who generally don’t like MMOs” and then go and do what everyone else is doing.

All those promises down the drain.

This is a nightmare we will never wake up from.

GG. I’m out.

I don’t understand why new content has to have mobs hitting harder and taking more punishment.

Again I cite GW1 and all the expansions as an example. 90% of Cantha and Elona was aimed at max level characters and it was easy to get geared and leveled up as a result of this.

It did not make the campaigns any less fun.

By making mobs beefier all they’re doing is forcing us to GRIND before clearing content, instead of just clearing content.

Rhyse.8176:

Basically, admit the mistake, apologize, and move on.

It will NEVER happen. I have never seen a gaming company do it, and they never will. Investors see it as a sign of weakness or so I’ve been told.

I’d sure love to see it, though. It would be a huge boon to ANet’s PR.

I agree with the OP, but the odds of ANet going through with it are microscopic.

LeoXearo.3641:

GW1 sucked.

Raf.1078:

GW1 pretty much sucked, IMO. This is far better.

You have horrible taste. But hey, you’re pleased with the sequel and I’m not. Guess that puts you in a better position.

deSade.9437:

They’re standing, defiant, in WoW’s territory. At least you have to admit they’re bold.
GW1 was a niche, they want to expand.

The sad part is that we all know they’re never going to get more than a few scraps of the WoW population. Even sadder, catering to that small percentage will still probably yield better results than staying true to the customers they had in the previous game.

I guess we’re just that small of a community.

Eandur.8109:

What I expected: new skills, new weapons, new combos, new mechanics, new quests.

What I got: new grind.

Hire this man, please.

BakBakaa.2453:

naysayer trolls

Here we go again.

God forbid we have legitimate complaints, suddenly we’re trolls.

Snow White.9680:

You don’t pay a subscription. I just want you to sit and think about that for a minute.

I’m terribly sorry, I didn’t realize paying 60€ for garbage was okay provided I didn’t follow up with a monthly fee.

Simple question, ANet. I think you owe your playerbase a straight answer.

Selon.7056:

You can’t have a game where you get the best gear and then there is nothing to go to from there AND a game that continues to expand on itself by creating new content and, inevitably, gear.

Guild Wars 1 disagrees.

Zephyr Lee.2491:

This isn’t Arena net’s fault.

It is the player base fault, nothing you can really do about it

The mechanics will condition the community.

Thanks for the positive feedback, I honestly did not expect it.

Joey.3928:

Guild Wars 2 is still very much like Guild Wars as far as gear goes.

GW1:

Make a new character in Tyria, do a few missions, grab a run to droks and you have a full set of perfect armor in a day.

Make a new character in Cantha, play the game normally you’re max level and wearing perfect armor within 8 hours.

Make a new character in Elona, ferry to consulate docks you have perfect armor in a few minutes.

GW2:

???

In GW1 the fun was in finding interesting builds and synergies between skills that normally don’t seem too useful by themselves. In GW2 there isn’t enough breathing room to be that creative.

Regizer.1763:

Well to be fair GW2 is a completely different game from GW1.

I probably should’ve left GW1 out of this. It will just get people to focus on this fact instead of the rest of the criticism.

I am disgusted with the announcement of a new tier of armor, to be honest. I quit WoW because I got tired of re-gearing.

You talk about this game not being a grind, but it so clearly is. It is a complete and utter grind.

In GW1 in its earliest stage if you wanted a perfect set of armor and a weapon you could get it in a week. I’m talking a week of playing just a couple hours a day. I’m talking no more than a month into the lifetime of the game. It got much easier over time.

It had OPTIONAL grinds, sure. For skins, mostly. Good looking armor and weapons.

And it worked fine, because the fun in the game was in discovering interesting builds and class combinations. Respeccing was COMPLETELY free, all you had to do was go to an outpost.

I’m grateful and impressed with all the base content provided in GW2 and that you improved in many areas surrounding the brunt of the game, but you left that very pulp lacking. The skill system is so restrictive it kills half the soul of the game right then and there. Kudos for trying something new with the weapons, though.

Gold sinks everywhere. For the most menial tasks. Harvesting mats. Map traveling. Death costs money over waypoints AND repairs, and believe me in a game where clearing content can be summarized in throwing corpses at a dungeon that kind of method gets old real fast.

From day one I looked at your gem store and saw what was wrong right there. Repair canisters? Merchant access and bank access where you pay for a single use? You KNEW your game was shoving inconvenience after inconvenience at the players, and you were hoping to capitalize on that.

I understand you wanted to make money, but this is the wrong way to do it. Here, let me help.

First off, allow me to teach you a fundamental rule of player retention. If you want me to put money in microtransactions the first step is making sure I feel comfortable doing so. Myself and a number of other cheapskates will not give you extra cash unless we’re certain we want to stick around for a while. If the drive instilled upon me is to FIX something wrong with core mechanics of the game, then I will go play another game instead.

Many times I brought up the store and wondered where are the armor skins. I mean you have some up there. Very few, though. Get more. Make them cheap. Heck, look at your GW1 store. You pay 5€ you get a permanent skin that you can wear whenever you want. I would buy that. That’s 5€ from me you could have had, and I assure you many others would jump on that.

During the development stage of GW2 I had nothing but high hopes for this game, but the more time I spend it the more I feel like I wasted my energy for no good reason. Your game is not bad, but I’m insulted by the entire marketing campaign and your manifesto in which you flat-out lied to me.

You promised the MMO that would tempt people not normally into MMOs yet this doesn’t feel any better than my time in WoW. I go to college and have a part-time job, that leaves me little time to play and a poor schedule to do it. What that means is that I have a hard time running dungeons and thus – gearing up. I can’t get any gold, either. If I get 1GP in a day that’s a lot for me. Now, this is something I can live with, provided that I have the certainty that when I finally save up enough or grind enough, the equipment I have is sufficient and will remain that way for the rest of the game.

And now, a gear treadmill in the horizon.

It’s painful, honestly. It’s painful because I know we are past the point where it can be fixed. This is a feature that’s in the game and regardless of how much negative feedback you get for it, it’s going through. Heck, I’m sure many people will be perfectly fine with it. Gear progression is the norm, they don’t mind.

Yeah, your game isn’t bad. But it’s not the game I was told I was purchasing.

It sucks being just another drop in the ocean.

BrunoBRS.5178:

classes are still color coded last i checked. not that i see that as a big deal.

You misunderstand. For example: Necromancers in GW1 were analogous to the color black in magic the gathering in the way their skills worked (cheap mana cost and low cooldowns, sacrifice health). This trend extends to the other 4 original professions.

That’s all I meant. That the class system and its previous well implemented incarnation was very much like MTG and thus, good.

I’m sure it has crossed someone else’s mind, particularly if they played the first Guild Wars, that the skill system in Guild Wars 2 is far too restrictive by comparison. The beauty of GW1 was the Magic The Gathering-like mechanic of your skill bar. All professions were analogous to colors in the card game and most skills followed their respective themes perfectly in that regard.

In GW2 your choice of weapons determines all five of your main skills. This is an interesting idea that ultimately fails because these weapon skills are the bread and butter of all classes, the remaining slots relegated to utility, panic or IWIN buttons.

I do not expect a full reversal back to what GW1 was. I would love it, of course, but I’m realistic. This is the direction you chose to take, and it makes more sense to try and salvage or improve upon it than discard it all together. Not to mention the tremendous amounts of balancing issues that would have to be dealt with following said decision.

That being said, I feel choosing your weapon skills from a larger pool of available skills is a good compromise. It will give us more toys to play with, so to speak.

I also wouldn’t mind if Anet took some risks and lowered cooldowns for utility skills across the board, at least in PvE. I dislike scarcely ever using them.

Thanks for reading.

Good input. I hope anet takes the time to read it.

For the love of god put in mounts.

“As for the skills,, I’d like to remind you that you could do far less with your cards in M:tG Alpha/Beta than you can with the dozens and dozens of expansion sets since. Even in GW1 each expansion added loads of new skills and ways to build your characters. All of that didn’t happen at the launch of Prophecies, so be a bit patient.”

This is not about the pool of skills to pick from so much as what they are expected to do. You are expected to use your weapon skills for the most part, the rest are utility. This means that the bread and butter of what you do is directly tied to the weapons, and while it is an interesting idea, it is far more restrictive than their first game.

And you don’t have to remind me about the content added with the expansions, I bought GW at launch. I have nothing but fond memories of it

I don’t really want to see an increase in the level cap. I don’t feel that achieving some arbitrary number is the game for me. I like thinking that all the time and effort I put into acquiring endgame gear doesn’t go to waste with the arrival of each new expansion.

One of my favorite aspects of GW1 was that every armor set or weapon I worked hard to get, was still viable years later because the stats really didn’t matter (perfect stats were trivial in GW1).

One of the main reasons why I’m even back to playing GW2 is because I saw the legendaries on youtube (great job, by the way) and I definitely want to work on getting a Sunrise, but after realizing just how much of my life it will consume, it is not something I want to do if the weapon will become subpar with the release of an expansion.

What I want to see in the expansions of GW2 is new campaigns to explore (i.e. personal stories), new playable races and of course new areas and dungeons.

Oh and though the chances of the skill system being revisited are slim, I do miss the GW1 incarnation so very much. I was always a big fan of magic the gathering and creating and playing around with builds was easily 90% of the fun in your previous game. I believe you would benefit from adding some further customization to GW2’s skill system.

Thank you for reading, and thanks for making a great game yet again with no subs!

Gotta love it when people argue against common issues by telling us we’re having fun wrong.

Repair costs are too high.

+1 for mounts.

Waypoint prices are ridiculous.