Guild Wars 2

waka.9826:

Stealth.9324:

GG Anet. No offence here but if Anet decides to go through this change, I have a better opinion for you,REMOVE ELES COMPLETELY. One less class to balance, less QQ, less headache. It is the WIn Win situation here. Oh well, time to un-dust my thief…

Hey look, it’s proof that this guy is just a hotjoiner.

Oh look, it is a prof that proves nothing….

GG Anet. No offence here but if Anet decides to go through this change, I have a better opinion for you,REMOVE ELES COMPLETELY. One less class to balance, less QQ, less headache. It is the WIn Win situation here. Oh well, time to un-dust my thief…

This is simple just the comparison bw mobility to show that Eles is not the King of Mobility like many people claim . Why’s some people give out dams, boon, survivability,burst in here? Their is a post for it and this is certainly not. Place for it. Thanks Op.

Arganthium.5638:

Distaste.4801:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I explained 6 times that I would support removing last refuge.

I only added in Shadow Refuge so that if Thieves ever get that fix, they could be completely fixed as a package, but people are in denial about their classes and would fight to the death not to have anything nerfed. Even if it meant buffing other aspects.

Just like Elementalists do about D/D. Ever try to stack bleed on a D/D Ele? I thought not.

Shadow refuge isn’t broken. It’s probably one of the easiest things in the game to counter. SR goes up…AOE IT. It’s that simple. The thief is either going to sit in the AOE to get stealth losing most of his life or he will leave and lose stealth. It’s Win/Win. I assume you play a necro so drop a well on it or all of your marks, go plague form and just sit in it, go into death shroud and do the AOE LF leech. Other classes can completely shut it down with knockbacks or pulls. If the thief is going to rez someone then you know EXACTLY where they will be, stealthed or not. Just drop damage on them(protip: if you have a combo on your autoattack you’ll see it flipping through abilities as you hit the thief). Shadow Refuge is only good against people who have no idea how it works or magically think stealth means invulnerable.

Back on topic: Last refuge is a garbage trait that has killed me a few times. I absolutely HATE that minor traits are forced on you, it’s just pouring salt on the wound when they are absolutely useless. I remember the Necromancer re animator trait where the jagged horrors would literally die before they could do anything. They are still terrible but slightly less useless. The whole trait system needs reworked since it is so confining. I know they changed it before release for balancing reasons, but it’s not like they are doing good on the balancing front anyways so they might as well allow a whole lot more builds.

Word of advice: don’t even start this conversation with him. Learn from my mistakes. He really has no idea what he’s talking about.

+1 to you

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Matchups exists in all class based games. This is a class based games. Learn the matchups. Builds counter other builds.

In this game, Elementalist is virtually immune to conditions, and has such incredibly strong support I wonder why there are even Guardians anymore. A Guardian and a Elementalist together are virtually invincible from any amount of conditions. They need a nerf to the Valkyrie builds, a nerf to the Cantrips. That’s all I care about. They can buff whatever else they want as long as it doesn’t reach the levels of nonsense they currently have.

I doubt it. Let not talk about they buff the trait or utilities that are already useless atm. They make no thing better, just worse. How about buff dams. Nerf their survival , buff their dams so they can end the fight quickly and not endure long fight? Sound logic? Right now, people already complain about Eles being Bursty as Hell, Buff more Dams, never ending QQer…

ahuba.6430:

like who the hell is this Stealth guy? you are on every single thread about eles telling others to l2p and calling them QQers, i mean, what have you accomplished in this game that others havent? what makes you thnk you are so good that you can tell everybody to l2p? And you are so deluded from the thruth its incredible! According to you, eles are not op on mobiloty, they’re not op on healing, they’re not op on group buffing healing etc etc, no super easy(like the easiest class to play on the game), “no mang, ele is balanced!”. I wouldnt be surprised if you said eles are UP.

I am me. If you want to meet me, call my name in game Kaane Moka. I am just a commner.Yet I have more knowledge about Eles class than most QQer out there. I am not being arrogant, I am confident enough to dare say that. Yes, I am in every single thread to correct what people said untrue about Eles. “Eles is as burst as thief” True or Fail? “Eles can outlive all other class out there even in Berserk Trait?” True or Fail? " Eles have everything, as bursty as thief, as tanky as Guard, as mobile as thief,all in ONE BUILD?" True or Fail? “CE is Undodgeable with Flash”? True or fail? I leave that to you guys answer which is I already much know the answer. I never said Eles is UP. What I want to correct is in D/D Eles are balanced (People complain we have so much healing, toughness and Mobile and yet people fail to see that we are Traited for it, and for what? So we can survive in a mess of a battle). I already explain many times in my other post that why we need it. And Yes Eles in UP in the case of all other weapon and other traits. I would love to see the variety in Eles Build, as well as all other Weapon Skill to be useable? Hell No, Right now, all I can see is bunker Eles, all the time and you know what, I am tired of it. But when I try to use different Build, it is NO GOOD AT ALL. Only Bunker Eles is what we have to play, nerf them, I would rather remove the CLass Completely, don’t let it stand there Like a Zombie.

And Let me ask you guys, What ELSE all the QQer out there suggest to Eles rather than Nerfing Eles. I have not yet single say any Idea on how to Buff them. A Nerf without Buff is a certain way to broke the class. Please don’t make Eles like a second Warrior. If you guy have any way to balance the class, I am all Ear. And instead of Nerfing, why not QQ for Buffing all other class, won’t it be better?

And you won’t ever see me again in any QQer thread about Eles, I am tired, sick and hate wasting my time to say to those who never learn to even try to study the class throughoutly, I said throughoutly, don’t be halfbaked.

And No, please don’t use my bad English as an excuse. English is my forth language.

Thank you.

MaXi.3642:

Swim.6830:

As a last note: When a bunker Ele does 6k Firegrab, you have my persmission to cry!

no bunker can do it… you are probably talking about D/D semi bunker with valk amulet and maybe 10% crit chance, but thats problem of semi bunker amulet+fury boon, not ele

He means only when a Bunker Ele does 6k Firegrab, then QQer has the right to QQ… I think I am done here. Typing my finger until broken won’t do anything good to those who never even try to learn the class or the only thing they know is breaking the enjoyable game enviroment.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Stealth.9324:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You underestimate my skill, Stealth. You think anyone that loses to an Elementalist is less skillful than the Elementalist? I can’t believe you’re serious. Have you ever once played high level at any game in your life? Do you know what Matchup charts are?

Mortal Kombat 9: Arguably one of the best players in the world mained Shang Tsung and lost to a Cyrax simply because the Cyrax had 100% damage combos with no meter required. Shang Tsung only has access to 50% combos 3 meter without Soul Stealing.

Bottom line: the player lost a 7-3 matchup in favor of the Cyrax. Those odds are incredibly hard to win with. Just because of his character.

Skill is always involved, but Elementalist has an inherent edge over it’s opposing classes.

I never underestimate anyone skill, please do not misunderstood me. But find out that most of QQer either with Thief or Eles, how may do you think they actually play the class? What else can you understand the class by not playing it yourself? Watching other player will not do you any good. But only a few of them actually listen and understand while other just keep QQing. And please we are talking about Guild war 2, an MmORPG PC game here,please do not use Mortal Kombat here as a gauge today you are skilfully. I don’t care if you are even the world champion in Mortal Kombat, all I care is how skill you are in Gw only and only. thank you

I wasn’t using MK9 to gauge my skill… do you understand context… at all? I was explaining how MATCHUPS WORK

I do understand the context. What I don’t understand is why you use an offline fighting game as an example of how class could be difference despite skill. Please do not compare MMORPG and Offline game, they are not on the same league.

Lordrosicky.5813:

I have watched many elementalists on streams and on stream videos recently to just get more understanding on why they are so hard to kill and why they can have such an impact (might stacking, healing people, getting away, pushing far point, etc.).

My conclusion is that the s/d cantrip ele is just too forgiving. (I think the damage d/d ele isnt nearly as OP..very strong yes but its comparable to hgh engi or to shatter mesmer with portal imo).

I have watched these players and honestly they suck. But they never get punished for sucking. They never dodge illusionary leap, they activate armour or earth and then do churning earth vs necros, they waste their cc, they dont dodge any incoming cc themselves. And yet they still do so much for the team just because they are a cantrip ele.

This isnt fair. Why should they not get punished for missing dodges or running into stupid situations, or going to the wrong place (going far when they needed middle)? Every other class, including bunker guardians, gets punished for this.

The problem is cantrips and how they synergise with the traits. There needs to be some significant nerfing to this aspects of eles in the next patch. And perhaps some nerfing to the water skills on the scepter to reduce how much they heal for.

As well as taking no skill to survive as an ele it also takes no skill to do damage as an ele. You dont have to focus targets, in fact you don t have to look at the screen. You just get on a point and click a predefined rotation to stack might and do aoe damage to everything on the point. Then you heal on you and your allies with another basic rotations. There is almost no adapting to situations required to be effective as an ele.

Ele is way too easy to play and yet way too effective if played well. This could be changed at both ends by nerfing how cantrips synergise with the popular builds and can also be nerfed by reducing the heals on the scepter.

Why should EVERY other class be punished for missing dodges or for playing badly but an ele can just get away with it over and over again, whilst dishing out some strong damage too.

Let me answer some of your question:

“They never dodge illusionary leap”: Why they should worry about the leap? What the true danger after the lea kitten wapping in which immobolize and Blurred Frenzy. Instead of dodging the leap which is pointless because it is hard to see its coming and waste your dodge. Swap is easier to predict because once you see the Leap, you can tell that when the leap approach you, Mesmer will swap. They save the dodge to dodge the Immobolize and Frenzy coming up which makes more sense to me.

“They activate armour or earth and then do churning earth vs necros”. You are right about the Armor of Earth is CC but you missing one important point.It also give stability to Eles. The reason behind it is CE is a long casting time (3 1/2s to cast) and one of the most powerfull spell among Eles skill, also with the long CD (30s), while casting it, Eles is your punching bag in 3s. They don’t want Necro to FEAR it as the last minute make all the effort go to waste.CE is the channeling skill, if you interupt the casting, it never come out. Too much of a sarcrifice to make.

“they dont dodge any incoming cc themselves” I agree that Eles has a lot of Dodge through Vigor, however by no mean, you can outuse them. Eles after all is still a cloth class plus low health pool, they need to use their dodge wisely. Say for example, if another Eles using Magnetic Grasp, you know that he is excuting CE combo, sure you can dodge the Grasp, but then it save opponent the trouble to use EArthquake. What you want to do is wait for him to come near you and use his Earthquake, you can dodge the Earthquake. So make him wasted 2 skill instead of 1. Let say you fail to dodge the Earthquake, sure he will cast CE right afterward. You can easily dodge CE even being downed by Earthquake. My point is: It not like they don’t want to dodge CC, they rather save it, use it wisely and bait the opp wasting their skill if they know what is the combo is. The only way, Eles can win against another Skill Class is to outplay them.

" some nerfing to the water skills on the scepter to reduce how much they heal for" You know that a very few Eles outhere running Scepter right? You see Eles heal so much first because of their low health pool, second, they trait for it. So they deserve it.

" Ele is way too easy to play and yet way too effective if played well" Maybe if you are a God of Gammer. Sure Eles is easier for you.

As far as I see, all the opinion you post is calling for nerf. How about some buff? Nerf comes with buff and No, Eles is far from Perfect.

Hello,welcome to the world of PvP. For a new comer, I would only suggest that D/P will be suitable for you. You can easily access stealth by using skill 5 to create smoke field and HS through it. Note, Stealth duration stack,so if you HS back and forth the smoke field, you have more stealth duration while remain stealth as long as you re not dealing any dams. The very first thing I would suggest you to learn is how to manage your initiative. It is vital for a thief to use his skill and survive. The build right now, I see most of thief use is berserk build which is 25/30/0/0/15. As for second set, SB is a good choice if you are not confident in your skill or P/P if you want to Win or Dies situation.

D/D requires much more skill than D/P because it is harder to access to stealth with skill 5. It need to be hit to get you stealth and whether you hit or to, you still have to spend 6 initiative to execute the skill. If it hit, good for you.If not, you just wasted 6 initiative for a miss which is a lot of sacrifice.

Conclusion: Try to play around with thief to see what weapon is best for you. Then start with build and combo. If you are in NA, pm me Kaane Moka , my else or Nightfang Runeghost, my thief, I will gladly to help you out.

cheer

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You underestimate my skill, Stealth. You think anyone that loses to an Elementalist is less skillful than the Elementalist? I can’t believe you’re serious. Have you ever once played high level at any game in your life? Do you know what Matchup charts are?

Mortal Kombat 9: Arguably one of the best players in the world mained Shang Tsung and lost to a Cyrax simply because the Cyrax had 100% damage combos with no meter required. Shang Tsung only has access to 50% combos 3 meter without Soul Stealing.

Bottom line: the player lost a 7-3 matchup in favor of the Cyrax. Those odds are incredibly hard to win with. Just because of his character.

Skill is always involved, but Elementalist has an inherent edge over it’s opposing classes.

I never underestimate anyone skill, please do not misunderstood me. But find out that most of QQer either with Thief or Eles, how may do you think they actually play the class? What else can you understand the class by not playing it yourself? Watching other player will not do you any good. But only a few of them actually listen and understand while other just keep QQing. And please we are talking about Guild war 2, an MmORPG PC game here,please do not use Mortal Kombat here as a gauge today you are skilfully. I don’t care if you are even the world champion in Mortal Kombat, all I care is how skill you are in Gw only and only. thank you

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

The only thing I believe needs addressing, are the cleanses and ridiculous healing capability. It is virtually impossible to kill an skilled D/D Elementalist using conditions. No class should ever have the amount of strong AoE support options Elementalist has.

Stealth, I find it funny how every single complaint you’ve ever seen on Elementalist or Thief you consider QQ. I honestly don’t even care about your opinion anymore since you literally never even bother to understand the reason behind the complainers. I know high ranking tournament players that absolutely despise Elementalists with every fiber of their being for how strong they are. Infact, I know several that actually re-rolled to Ele for viability.

I find it funny because all the QQ you post about Eles or Thief coming from your lack of knowledge about the class? “Shadow refugee is Op” Lol what? “Else can outlive than any professional out there even trained as Berzerker” Double LoL? Sounds familiar? At this point, I honestly don’t care what your reason is because you never try to learn the class. All you do is nerf this, nerf that. And please don’t speak of high ranking tournament, I also know some people that ask me not to play Eles but play Guard or Ranger instead for Bunker. Your point.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

The only thing I believe needs addressing, are the cleanses and ridiculous healing capability. It is virtually impossible to kill an skilled D/D Elementalist using conditions. No class should ever have the amount of strong AoE support options Elementalist has.

You did know it is hard to defeat a Skilled Eles. I want to emphasise the word “Skill” here. Skill player deserved the win and because you are not as Skill as them, learn to play better, train yourself harder.Why punish skill player for all their hard work???It is like to say “It is impossible to defeat a Skilled Boxing player. Please chop off his hand so I can win” ….o-0!!!

rhodoc.2381:

The game has way too many aoe skills even auto attacks.

Sign… Another post QQ again. At this point, i would not even bother to repost my 2 pages long explain why Eles is not Op as people think. I would even dare to say that even AoE dams has been nerf to the ground, people will still QQ just because it is…AoE,it hit many targets at once, not cool. Anet, pls do us, the community that understand how the game works a favour, remove all AoE skill and replace them all with single target skill. So we don’t have to hear so many unreasonable QQ. The less QQ, the better.

Cheer

For Eles, there are only two build available that is competitive, the variation of 0/10/0/30/30 or 0/0/10/30/30 or 0/20/0/20/30,…regardless of what the variation is, to go bunker you need at least 20 in water and 20 in Arcana. Sigils mainly is superior of engery, battle or fire depend on people want to push their dam or not. The other build I mention is Signet build using 20/10/30/10/0 with signets as ultilities. The point is to talk around with permanent protection, furry and swiftness. Very survive against burst and easy to die with condition. Runes of earth is the runes for this build. Signils is variety. If you need more Infomation about signet build, contact me in game Kanne Moka and I will explain the build to you, server Fort aspen wood NA.Cheer

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I explained 6 times that I would support removing last refuge.

I only added in Shadow Refuge so that if Thieves ever get that fix, they could be completely fixed as a package, but people are in denial about their classes and would fight to the death not to have anything nerfed. Even if it meant buffing other aspects.

Just like Elementalists do about D/D. Ever try to stack bleed on a D/D Ele? I thought not.

Right,with your idea about fixing, the class becomes COMPLETELY broken.No thanks, it would be better to remove thief completely out of game instead of leaving it dead like that. You claim you have played other class, yet me and many other here find it hard to believe you. When it comes to class, you many time give out misinformation. I don’t need to give out any example, this is not a place for it. Do you know that with SR, thief has to stand in there at least 4s to get complete effect? Guess not. During that 4s interval, if thief EVER step out the circle, he will be revealed and marked with the debuff means that he can not get back in the circle to get another stealth. In short, once he you push him out,he screwed. With Mesmer, simply using GS 5 or Focus 4, he will be revealed immediately. Playing Mesmer with no knowledge of their skill is useless. Another thing is once thief cast SR, watch his health bar. If it is not for Rez purpose, means he is in real trouble and at low health. As a Necro, what are you waiting for not casting Well on top of the circle? Well circle is nearly as large as SR circle,so very high chance you will get hit him regardless you can see him or not. Now thief only have 2 options,either stand in SR for 4s to get the full effect of SR and eat your Well Dams plus condition or move out of the circle and get revealed. Either way, with just a little push,thief will be down. Another scenario here is thief down while in SR circle, but because he still in the SR circle, he still get Stealth buff stacking and he can recover using that stealth time. A lot of time I am down in SR circle,stealth and my opponent standing there watching, give me time to rally while stealth. The solution is after pass 4s or SRdissappear and you still have not seen him,either he flee successfully or he is downed while remain stealth. If he is flee, great you got the point you are holding or capturing ATM. If you are not sure, don’t just stand there,go in and attack where he use SR.Despite whether you see him or not, hit or not, at least you are preventing him from heal himself and eventually, you will see him out and laying on the floor dead or down. After all this instruction, you still find trouble dealing with SR,you have no one to blame but yourself.

Back to the topic. I would love to see LR to be make as Adept trait and switch one of the Adept trait out like, using stealth skill give you 2 initiative, or remove one codition every 3s in stealth or, going stealth blind nearby enemy. They are all decent you to buff thief survive ability a bit.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Stealth.9324:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Which is why, if you read my post, I don’t want them to rely on it. I want Thieves to have access to different things to use, and diversify their skillsets.

Please enlight us Mr..Pro. What can you suggest if that is all VIABLE stuff we can use to be able to Competitively PVP? We need more action,more constructive idea, not some baseless Claim. Cheer

You are absolutely dense. For the 20th freaking time. I stated: “Buff other things. Nerf 3 things Thief has. BUT. Buff. Other. Things. They. Have.”

So that they actually can be useful, rather than heartseeker monkeys.

Oh sorry for not being as smart as you,Mr Pro. As far as I know, you are one the of the few that got the problem with SR. Second thing,you call for nerf in Stealth area and yet you don’t want Thief ad H’s monkey.Woa, a “Wonderful” Idea. My suggestion, learn to play Mr Pro.,calling For nerf Wont make you Better.FEAR him when he go SR, try it see How it goes for you,Mr Pro.
P/s Reported for offended language.
Cheer

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Which is why, if you read my post, I don’t want them to rely on it. I want Thieves to have access to different things to use, and diversify their skillsets.

Please enlight us Mr..Pro. What can you suggest if that is all VIABLE stuff we can use to be able to Competitively PVP? We need more action,more constructive idea, not some baseless Claim. Cheer

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

At the moment, Shadow Refuge is an overpowered skill. It’s more effective than my Signet of Undeath, as it has a shorter cooldown, stealths, and heals. I’m fine with buffing some other Thief skills, as long as that one is toned down. Alot.

It’s essentially an “All in one” skill. Which is dumb.

Is there anything else to you not OverPower??? I truly believe hey Necro is so bad ATM… Can you please at least think before you post. Thanks. And if you don’t know, don’t say anything as if you understand the matter. much appreciated

Why do I sense a bit of sacarsm humor here LolL.

Cheer.This is what I am looking for a long time. Mobs should tag this.

Bas.7406:

Stealth.9324:

Kaane Moka, Eles Server FA, NA
Avaliable at 1 AM Server time
No Recording available.

1AM is a bit late, but I will add you to our possible future sign ups. The event is scheduled for 5:30pm PST to 8:30pm PST this thursday

I live in Australia, yah, time is a huge difference.

Kaane Moka, Eles Server FA, NA
Avaliable at 1 AM Server time
No Recording available.

Hi. My name is Kaane Moka, server Fort Aspenwood, NA,am looking for a PvP focus Guild to go tournament together. I am r20, mainly Elementalist, Mesmer and Thief. My time zone is Pacific time zone, ideally Guild base in Australia. Pm in game for confirm.

Cheer and thanks for reading.

As far as I see, the main problem is laying at some class has too much of one thing,while some class suffer at the very same thing. For example,Eles has many condition cleanse while Mesmer has so little condition removal,Engine can apply too many condition in the short period of time while Thief has not many condition. On the other hand,Mesmer and Thief has so much burst while Necro and Guard has so little burst. I maybe wrong in those example, those are just plain example to elaborate what I mean. The action American need to take on now is take what one class had so much compared to the rest and give out to other class that suffer. ON the other hand,buff what other Class has been lacking of. I could only speak of in the case of the Eles . I am happy for them to take less condition cleanse as long as one class can not deal so many condition in the short time.Happy to reduce our healing ability but buff our dam and toughness,so we don’t have to fight a long battle. Also please make other weapons set usable.Only one or two set of weapons is viable for tourney make the game so boring. My opinion.

Faux Sheaux.6179:

The dime a dozen cookie cutter D/D but you knew that. If you don’t think it is OP, find me an equally effective build for every other class.

People complain about Eles being super tank.Please find me a build that Eles can be as tank as Guard Equally.Eles too mobile,How about as Mobile as Thief in equal term.Too much conditions,please help me because I want to be like Engineer on the same ,etc.. There you go,please find me a perfect build that can have all of list above as equal to all other class. The only thing we are good at is cleanse condition,that all. Boon sharing, we can only share 1 boon at a time in every 9s with different boon. Area boon is come from combo field and blast.We may have many combo field but we don’t have many blast to get the full benefit of it. PEOPLE being jealous just because one team can have a lot of boon while you don’t,hence QQ…

Sixe.5704:

Stealth.9324:

It is not random. When u know thief is around, put Well under your feet to stop the thief Bs you. If you see it too much of a problem to do, I fail to see the point of you winning, honestly.

The problem is I never saw him. Didn’t know he was there. Why would I spam aoe if I didn’t know he was around.

The problem is not that you never saw him.The problem is here you know he is coming and choose to do nothing about it. If you see a thief and he is steal to approach and clock and dagger for stealth, you know that Bs is followed. Let say ok, I don’t have enough time for that BS, fair enough. Now have a look at ur Hp, if ur Ho below 50% expect HS spamming, why not heal, why not DS to migrate dams, why not Well under your feet to give him trouble. most of all, why not evade or run???You choose to do nothing and Not to be rude but you will need to study a thief class for sure and also, learn to dodge, heal and use your skill.

Henqquli.5078:

If you rarely hit with Ele, you are doing something wrong.

Thief is most mobile class yes, but thief doesnt have insane heal, tankiness, combo finisher / combo fields like eles does.

Mobility: 25% Move speed signed, Teleport, Ride the lightning, Swiftness, Lightning field + blash finisher, mist form.
Combo: Fire, Lightning, Water, Ice
Finisher: Blash, Projectile, Leap, Whirl

Eles are overpowered, you can deny it but they are. I have about 700 hours on my elementalist, and this is a fact.
They need a nerf, there is a reason why pro players complain about them.

Um.. You know that I am talking about spectre set right???

Um.. You know that I am talking about spectre set right???Thief also have 25% speed signet, Shadow step as a form of Lightning flash, instead of having Mist form, you have access to another Teleport skill, Inflirtrator arrow. Ride the Lightning equal to Evade and Roll for Innatiative. On top of everything else, Thief has access to stealth which is way better than mist form. And the list does not stop here. So to say Eles out mobile Thief is just absurb.

Um.. You know that I am talking about spectre set right???Thief also have 25% speed signet, Shadow step as a form of Lightning flash, instead of having Mist form, you have access to another Teleport skill, Inflirtrator arrow. Ride the Lightning equal to Evade and Roll for Innatiative. On top of everything else, Thief has access to stealth which is way better than mist form. And the list does not stop here. So to say Eles out mobile Thief is just absurb.Combo and finisher, well, Eles is the support role while thief is more like in the front roIe battle. I would not bother to list all our combo and finisher here, I assume you know them all. What kind of supporter is he if he can not lay down a field for his teammate to make uses of?And I think Thief has the best Blast finisher ATM, Bomb Arrow spam. Each class has been built for a specific role and the other class are there for a reason. If one class can do all, may as well delete all other class, so no more QQer, balance issue.

Um.. You know that I am talking about spectre set right???Thief also have 25% speed signet, Shadow step as a form of Lightning flash, instead of having Mist form, you have access to another Teleport skill, Inflirtrator arrow. Ride the Lightning equal to Evade and Roll for Innatiative. On top of everything else, Thief has access to stealth which is way better than mist form. And the list does not stop here. So to say Eles out mobile Thief is just absurb.Combo and finisher, well, Eles is the support role while thief is more like in the front roIe battle. I would not bother to list all our combo and finisher here, I assume you know them all. What kind of supporter is he if he can not lay down a field for his teammate to make uses of?And I think Thief has the best Blast finisher ATM, Bomb Arrow spam. Each class has been built for a specific role and the other class are there for a reason. If one class can do all, may as well delete all other class, so no more QQer, balance issue.Playing hour on your Eles,whether it is a fact or not, I don’t care. The most important is how skill you are playing a class in what environment. 700 hours playing in hotjoin, I prefer 200 hours playing in sPvP.

It is not random. When u know thief is around, put Well under your feet to stop the thief Bs you. If you see it too much of a problem to do, I fail to see the point of you winning, honestly.

PistolWhip.2697:

But thats the issue, Bunker Ele’s can do too much. They can sustain and survive as good as guardians, are more mobile then thieves and harder to catch (many share this opinion, as many share the opposite) and do as much direct burst as a mid tier dps class thats specced more dps oriented. Anet understands that.

Me spamming buttons is playing perfectly? I don’t die on my D/D ele, ever. I’m a horrible ele.

LoL, Eles has more mobile than thief. Please don’t tell me you play a thief, pls. Just don’t.It make my thief feel so UP in mobility than my Eles. If u want me to list them all, let me know. Cheer

Wizzy.7910:

Can’t believe this thread is still going on.
Just for this stealth guy
Condi removals:
9sec cooldown on water attunement, swap to water = 1 condi clear
Swapping to water = gain regen + trait called “cleansing water” = another condi cleared
Dodging in water ( pretty much perma vigor+energy sigils, ye u can dodge) with Evasive Arcana = another codi
thats 3 conditions removed every 9 seconds and dont forget the heal from those skills. (well 10 seconds if wanna be accurate with evasive arcana)
And if u haven’t already used Cleansing wave for yet another condi clear.
and cantrips remove conditions
Heals: pretty much everything above heals u or grants u regen and the passive effect from signet of restoration and as most bunker’s run S/D (atleast in EU) water trident gives another heal. can’t think of any other builds in this meta with this good condition removal.
AAnd protection from earth attunements.
Dmg that was discussed here, yes eles don’t trait for it but they don’t even have to:
Clerics amulet gives u power, rest comes from combo fields, doesn’t rly work in DD that well but S/D basic combo:
Updraft -> Dragon tooth -> Ring of fire -> Phoenix ->(Fire Grab, gonna miss if doing this way) (and when stacking might swap earth) ->dodge in ur fire field (evasive arcana) -> Earthquake -> Churning Earth. Not efficient in most cases doing this way but 15 stacks of might there = 525 power, which is already more than u can trait when going 30pts on fire. So there u go, about same amount of power than full zerker glass cannon, without the precision ofc but u have acces to fury so w/e.
Mobility: RTL not affected by slows + lighting flash + swiftness, thief is mobile but no acces to swiftness alone ( or then im just not aware of it)
Point capping ye thief can do it but u rly think thief is gonna sit on point defending it like ele?

Very nice thread. Now at least,I can talk to someone who understand the class a bit. I have no comment about healing and condition removal since that we are good at. but I want to discuss a little bit about our Dams. What good with high dams when the skill rarely hit? 15 stack of might, what good does it do if none of your skill hit target? DT is so predictable,any decent player will not gonna get hit by it. Phoenix is so slow that you can even outrun with swiftness, not to mention you can dodge it it. Same with CE and Earthquake. As you see, all the skill in S/x is so laughable. With S/x Set, we can only rely on Cndiiton dam,by using Cleric, you can’t expect us too much condition dam have you not even wi might? D/D is our kill tool and with that,the max Might we can get is 9 stack of might. You can argue that with S/X, good player can let them hit with ease. I can also say that Bad player will let them hit.

Thief do have swiftness access by 10 point in Aerobatic. 2s swiftness on Evade and Fleet Shadow 50% faster when in stealth,Hs can also be used for mobility, Roll for innitiative, ( you can roll forward if you know how to),shadow step, Sb skill 5,sword 2,Evade.I have never see any class with such mobile.Now dont get me wrong here, I never call Thief is op or too much mobile.Each class has its pwn excel. If you want to flee, just call SR and stand n there, with Fleet Shadow, 2s swifness on dodge and 10s in stealth, you can easy flee with NO ONE ever know you there.You can argue that, you don’t have trait to trait in for that due to going Berserker. It is not that you don’t have the option but you chose not to. Same with Eles,our option is there and we choose to get it.

Thief is not for point holder. Thief job is roamer, moving around,choosing target and hit him down hard when he is not aware or help the team end the fight quicker. Leave the point holder to Bunker Guard or Eles, Engineer. Again, point holder is not thief job.

Mrbig.8019:

jportell.2197:

Cinaed.2649:

Maethar.5627:

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

And those of us playing that build continue to think about making threads like “It’s time to nerf Thieves” but we don’t. Yet, we’re all thinking it. Same old QQ.

doesn’t this build have elixir S? Isn’t that a stun break… Doesn’t this build also have toughness…. Playing this their should be 0 issues with thieves

lol a thief is kinda like the best counter to hgh engies.

if you have elixir s on CD ( and usually, even when you don’t, as long as the thief is good and fakes his burst), you’re pretty much dead without any chance to react.

omg there’s too much fuss around hgh engies, they’re strong but not gamebreaking.

The ele is gambreaking. Why don’t you QQ about the ele, like every sane person ?

LoL, no worry he did on every Eles post. And you too, instead of direct ur trouble to Eles, how about learn to play against Eles? I have good Engines eat my eles eat me everyday.does that make Engineer Op?No

I just roll a Guard, bunker Symbol Build, with 10/0/30/30/0,Divinity Runes,Cleric amulet with 14k health, using GS/ Mc/Shield. First time playing a Guard, FIRST TIME ever, and I can hold against 3 player (1 thief,1 Engine. 1Eles) pretty relaxing for like 5 mins bf going down… A thing that I could never achieve with my Eles… And peop,e complain Eles being unkillable and too much healing. I could do so much more with Guard, passive and active Health Generation (Virtues), Shout give Boons and Heal and removes Condition,dodge give heal, Mace 2 give heal and Active Healing Skill.Elite Trait to Reset Virtues for Constant Regeneration. Compare to this much healing, and they complain Eles healing too much. Using the same Cleric Amulet, I think my Guard is Outheal my Eles way much more

Henqquli.5078:

!Unless Anet give us less need to trait in Arcane (less CD time on attunment swapping),Eles is fine at where it stands ATM."

Hahahhaha, no.
Elementalist is horribly too much at the moment, they got damage, healing and mobility.
Plus, if you have multiple elementalists, they synenergy perfectly with each other.
Heal, fire field, blash finisher, heal, heal heal heal heal.
You don’t get punished by picking 3 elementalists, where you get punished if you pick 3 of any other class.
Elementalist is nowhere near fine, pro players have complained about them for a while already, FOR A REASON.
Just because you like playing your OP class, and dont want to change it, doesnt make it “fine”

Where do u see any team got punish for having 3 Guards, 3 Mesmers, 3 Necros, 3 Thiefs,…??? And because we have one well designed build does not mean we are Op. More like make other class well designed like us instead of calling for nerf. And just because you don’t play one and you find it hard to play against and with some hatred toward the class, does not make a class Op. And gosh, how many time do I have to repeat me self we can be good at one area but not all.. (Deal dam as Zerker while survive as Bunker and got Godly Healing,I wish…)

With Fury,they give us 20% of crit chance,equal to 400 precision as you state.t
The only way, we can have fury is through Air 10 traits. And while we may have permanent fury, we can not burst as hard as Zerker since we are not traited for power. I believe, to be a zerker, you will have to have a good Power, Crit Chance and Crit Dam. Since we don’t have many power and don’t trait for power,what good fury to us if we have low power output? And certainly we wil never have a chance to burst as good as a Zerker.

By toughness, I believe you are talking about Earth trait 10 that give protection? If not, our toughness only come from armor and the same as all other class. And while we may be able to keep Protection up,in a long run, it will not that much matter in a big fight with Cnditions flying around.

10 pts in Air and 10 pts in Water, that would make us either have 10 less in Water or Arcanee which either of them is very important to us. I tried 0/10/10/20/30 or 0/10/10/30/20, both works inferior to our popular build 0/10/0/30/30 or 0/0/10/30/30. You die way faster.Condition will eat you when u don’t have access to Grandmaster Water or you will die with Burst because you can’t switch attunment fast enough.

Unless Anet give us less need to trait in Arcane (less CD time on attunment swapping),Eles is fine at where it stands ATM.

LoL. Sorry if someone feel me like trolling here but I can not stop the urge to expressly opinion. And also sorry for not being constructive.

Engine call Op and all other class on Eles. Fair enough.
Mesmer and all other class call Op on Engine.
Thief and all other class call Op on Ranger for the pet deal way too dams.
And the list go on and on.

It is like an endless loop of Opness. And people never stop crying for nerf as long as it is not on their favor. Shame on the all QQer.I wonder when u will all grow up and learn to play the class.

I see Engine is fine ATM, and No I don’t main an Engineer,worst, I play OP Eles. I tried Engine the other day, HGH build, completely wreck on my face. Because I am new to Engine and I need to learn how the Engine works to make it works. All other classes are the same, even with Warrior. Why one person can dominate in PvP with War while other can’t, and they call the class being UP? And when one person find it hard to defeat a class,they call the class OP? Not so long ago, Engine was considered as one of the worst class out there and Boom, people call for OP?Once War dominate PvP and Boom, people see it as one of the worst class whilst I remember there is no major nerf to War and the class was one getting quite a lot of buff.Correct me if I am wrong though. With the nerf of Quickness,Boom,War is no more viable in PvP? Should I call people being so simple minded,relying too much on one skill to kill? My 2c here is Be creative people,and learn to play your class properly and counter other class. I believe in the beginning, all class was balanced (devs not too stupid to get one class is way too much different than other),then people call for nerf and buff here and there (because they don’t know about learning and adapt), we got into the mess right now. I could say we could have much more enjoyable gaming experience with so much content if the Devs not always get their hand full of what you call " balanced" issue. So stop QQ,grow up and adapt please. A skill sword master can make a shard sword out of a piece of wood while the unskilled one,even with a legendary sword, he can not cut anything. Keep calling for nerf, good people will find a way to make it good while bad player still keep QQer.

Sorry if my post confuse you guys or lost in the forest of text,I typed is while brain storming.

Cheer

Archaon.6245:

Stealth.9324:

Sol.4310:

When something is broken fix it, the only people defending Ele’s are Ele’s. But yet allot of Ele’s agree that there still to strong in some areas.

Try playing classes that have been weak from day dot. Requires allot of skill not just a build.

You are not wrong for say thing that.However, if you NEVER EVER. try to play the class, you lose all your credibility for judging a class. Just like you complain about GW2 is a crappy game without playing it while it is not?

Note: Was Eles considered UP since beta???

When something is not broken don’t fix it.If you want to soften it,please make sure you reinforce other Areas.

A guildmate used to play ranger, mesmer, guardian and something else (You can ask him, ign. Nick Blink) one day he made an ele and now he plays cleric or valkirye ele only since he made it months ago…. “His last words on ts about his new class were lol i can go 1vs1 with everyone with almost no worries and keep up even vs 2 even killing someone maybe, no reason to go back to my other classes…all you need is here, once you know how to play it just a bit you can do whatever you want” Strange thing is that ppl who usually rolled other classes if they try an ele, once they get used to it, they never go back…..never heard a warrior (Or even a so “god mode” mesmer) saying “I’m not leaving this class because it’s so facerolling compared to others” Did you? I main mesmer but i don’t play mesmer only, because in many situations another class can do the job better than a mesmer….eles just play ele until they eventually get bored, they don’t need to reroll something else in order to keep up with new metas, they can do pretty much everything already….master of none? I’d rather say master of pretty much everything if they want to.

Thanks for sharing the story of your Guildmates. There are a few thing I would like to point out in that story. First, your friend has been played a lot of other class bf he roll to an Eles. That means he has a good understanding of how class work, their combo, their weakness,etc.. in PVP. Now let me ask you how many people out there complain about Eles being OP actually playing ELES? I believe you have your answer. Second, he got the hand of Eles, good for him. Eles is not an easy class to play but on the hand of a Skilled Player, it is deadly. That is more of the issue Victory rewards skill play. If they are skilled, they deserve the reward. I see no problem to it? And I would say the same for all other class. “once you know how to play it” is what I want to emphazie it, and “a bit” depend on people it could means different. “A bit” according to a Pro player is not the same as “a bit” according to a Bad Player." because in many situations another class can do the job better than a mesmer." Ofc, that is why we have many different class to play. You can not expect Eles as tanky as Guard, Mesmer as Bursty as War, do you? It is like to say, in many situation, other class can do the job better than Eles.

My opinion is still the same. Let’s assume Eles is the master of All, why I still see all other class running around? If Eles sure is the master of All like you claim, I would not see people arguing. Why not just simply roll one and get done with it? And that simply not the case.

1vs1 random and tournament. Elimination way,winner will advance.And win the tournament if he comes up top

Wait for me to respawn

Good question.A lot of things has been changed,some buff here and there but mostly nerd due to some group of people love to QQ things,call out for nerf to fill up their lack of skill, the will to adapt and a brain to think. What class you are playing btw?

Vayne.8563:

Happens all the time. But it still isn’t really possible to tell people they can’t express an opinion. The best way to handle it is to express an alternate opinion, and leave it at that. If you start calling people names, you’re going to get called out by the moderators…and rightly so.

So leave the name calling out of it, make your points without them and let the reasonable people watching decide which of you they’d rather believe.

The thing even without calling out people name or you just indirect to do so, you are called out.While the guy who start it out remain safe…

Sol.4310:

When something is broken fix it, the only people defending Ele’s are Ele’s. But yet allot of Ele’s agree that there still to strong in some areas.

Try playing classes that have been weak from day dot. Requires allot of skill not just a build.

You are not wrong for say thing that.However, if you NEVER EVER. try to play the class, you lose all your credibility for judging a class. Just like you complain about GW2 is a crappy game without playing it while it is not?

Note: Was Eles considered UP since beta???

When something is not broken don’t fix it.If you want to soften it,please make sure you reinforce other Areas.

Serephen.3420:

Starbird.4029:

How exactly do you ‘nerd’ a class?

Also – if you have an opinion about balance and can phrase it in a coherent and constructive manner, you should post it. Worst case scenario – someone tells you why you are wrong.

You forget…no one is ever wrong on the internet!

And that is why Mods is there to keep thing order.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Everyone should feel free to express their opinion. The moderators are here to make sure folks are civil to one another, not to encourage or discourage a point of view. If you don’t agree with someone’s opinion, or you think they’ve said something false, post your opinion in response. Why get the moderators involved?

While I agree with you that everyone has totally right to express their feeling and you are correct that the mods are here to keep thing civils. Let me put in a scenario easier for you to understand:

“In a room where a group of people discussing about a matter and try to be constructive.One guy,named A walk in and said you are all stupid or the matter you are discussing is plain stupid. When being asked why,he simply answer because it is stupid. The group try to explain to him but simply A keep his opinion for the matter being stupid.One of the guy,named B in group ask him please don’t be stupid and leave the room. An officer walked in and give a warning to B for being uncivilised and it happened again,B not allow to enter the room anymore.While A standing there and say,that is it fork,his job here is done and simply leave the room with nothing bad happened to him? A is called as being civilised for expressing his “opinion” while B being warned for being rude toward him and get warning. Since there is no consequences for being civilise in such manner, A going from this room to that room and repeat."

Do you got my point here?

Not really QQ,more like a constructive post about how to help mods reduce the number of QQer on the forum. And please read my definition of what I mean of QQer on my first post.Thanks.

I will start. Allow player to report the post simply stated “The class is not op,it is just Op” with no legit support in an Constructive post. Mods will sent those a warning and delete the post just like how they do at the moment. After three warning in a short period of time (1 months) for example, take away their right to post in 1 weeks. After three ban with no change in behaviour, enforce the ban by ban them for longer period of time or could lead to permamnent ban if need to. Ban only take away their right to post.

Thanks for reading

zone.1073:

Daecollo.9578:

Elementalists are not OP really, they just are more finished then the rest of the classes.

All classes need access to all the boons in some way.

“They’re not OP.. they’re just op. "

Please don’t post if u have nothing else constructive opinion.

QQer definition in here is someone who simple post “please nerd this class” “this class is so OP” without giving an invalid points or misinform points. Example: “Eles can outlive most of all class even in Bererker build” - LoL what??? So far, I understand that there will be an warning for those who call these people trolling, no brain,etc…However, for actual those QQer, what consequences they face when they are doing thing like that or spread out false rumour that can affect the whole community? I don’t know what Mod forum has in place for them but certainly not strong enough.I see more and more QQer like that recently and seems they are more aggressive and more aggressive.

So ladies and gentlements, what you have in your idea to suggest to Mods to deal with this problem? Vent yourself.

cheer

I wish I don’t have to be forced to go bunker there are more viable build out there for all of class. Plus the conquest mode is not the only mode we have in PvP. Rightnow, Conquest mode is the only thing we have and it promotes bunker build,roamed.And since we only have one viable build and good at it, we suddenly being marked as OP. If we have Deathmatch,where everyone just kill each other for point, I believe Eles will be sure marked as UP class or in some extreme case, NOOB class..

Completely agree with this,don’t know when they will add more Mode….

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Oh my god Stealth you’re so kitten defensive. It’s wide consensus Eles are OP, and it’s widely believed Eles will receive a nerf. You’re like a kid that got caught with his hands in the cookie jar.

Ah sorry.This is no place for you to judge whether I am a kid or not. I have my own topic for that already and I have repeated myself over and over many time. You know that,from now on, I will just ignore you include with your aggrogant of talking nonsense,clueless.

Cheer