Guild Wars 2

Smirgel.9460:

I think “on interrupt” stipulation is the best solution with the most counterplay added into it. That way you can’t just mindlessly spam MoD into a roflstomp stealth burst. To compensate, the daze and stun duration increase could be raised to +50% and icd removed so you could (theoretically atleast) stun lock a group of players. Could be a lot more exciting to watch than now with the current iteration.

On interrupt would be the same. Why? You can interrupt almost everything. AA? MoD that beesh andddd he gets stunned. Then you burst.

DaShi.1368:

Aomine.5012:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Aomine.5012:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Cynz.9437:

people hate mesmers for same reason why they hated thieves pre patch: burst from stealth…. except mesmers can do it better now, while stacking dazes and actually living way longer than thieves….. and thieves got nerfed so they can’t keep mesmers in check.

That being said, enjoy the bandwagon before you get flooded by QQ and get hit by nerf bat

I would disagree… But standard GS shatter rotation says otherwise. Granted I’ve since moved to a different weapon set that’s more fun. However, the amount of QQ over something that’s been around since… Who knows is what’s sad. Everyone conveniently forgets lots of classes experienced a power creep and blame Mesmer for some l2p issues. Other than PU and CS. Those are different stories.

And you conveniently forget it was impossible to have such combo before the patch too. It is the new mechanic, IN ADDITION to the old one, that makes Mesmer OP.
Excluding any part of it and said it’s there before it’s just silly.

So it was impossible to burst, potentially “one shot”, from stealth pre patch? I’m sure Vashury, Osicat, Guapo, and others would disagree. What’s different now is that the burst is BETTER and if CS is taken more stuns.

You still missed the point.
In the past Mesmer is bursty, but frail and little margin of error.
Now Mesmer is still bursty (in fact, way more bursty), but with alot more margin of error thanks to all the new toys. Stun-lock only make things worse.

So power mesmer is where power ranger is. Now I see why you’re upset.

What are you even talking about?

Jace al Thor.6745:

denis.9487:

Aomine.5012:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Aomine.5012:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Cynz.9437:

people hate mesmers for same reason why they hated thieves pre patch: burst from stealth…. except mesmers can do it better now, while stacking dazes and actually living way longer than thieves….. and thieves got nerfed so they can’t keep mesmers in check.

That being said, enjoy the bandwagon before you get flooded by QQ and get hit by nerf bat

I would disagree… But standard GS shatter rotation says otherwise. Granted I’ve since moved to a different weapon set that’s more fun. However, the amount of QQ over something that’s been around since… Who knows is what’s sad. Everyone conveniently forgets lots of classes experienced a power creep and blame Mesmer for some l2p issues. Other than PU and CS. Those are different stories.

And you conveniently forget it was impossible to have such combo before the patch too. It is the new mechanic, IN ADDITION to the old one, that makes Mesmer OP.
Excluding any part of it and said it’s there before it’s just silly.

So it was impossible to burst, potentially “one shot”, from stealth pre patch? I’m sure Vashury, Osicat, Guapo, and others would disagree. What’s different now is that the burst is BETTER and if CS is taken more stuns.

You still missed the point.
In the past Mesmer is bursty, but frail and little margin of error.
Now Mesmer is still bursty (in fact, way more bursty), but with alot more margin of error thanks to all the new toys. Stun-lock only make things worse.

And this just puts Mesmer with the rest of the classes. Learn to adapt.

Thank you. People seem to miss this fact. Too often

This is false. Mesmer was powerful pre patch. Only baddies say that Mesmer is in line of the rest of the classes now.

PS: In PvP it was almost impossible to one shot someone pre patch. WvW is a different story, you get additional stats, food buffs, and from what I see in videos, A lot of WvW players are bad, they won’t even dodge an unstealthed mirror blade burst.

Montages are not even woth mentioning as these are nitpicked ideal situations, If you have faced them before in a match or duel then I will take that source as credible.

Cynz.9437:

people hate mesmers for same reason why they hated thieves pre patch: burst from stealth…. except mesmers can do it better now, while stacking dazes and actually living way longer than thieves….. and thieves got nerfed so they can’t keep mesmers in check.

That being said, enjoy the bandwagon before you get flooded by QQ and get hit by nerf bat

Meanie.

Teutos.8620:

TyPin.9860:

Now this is the time to honor your favorite forum hero. Who is the greatest Mesmer expert in your opinion?

Our great and magnificent Lord Helseth.

Don’t care a bit about all those WvW/PvE-Wannabe-Heros.

forum.

/15 chars.

MailMail.6534:

StickerHappy.8052:

MailMail.6534:

Hard counters are called hard counters for a reason. It allows someone with less skill to easily beat someone with more skill due to the innate imbalances between two specific build archetypes.

Comparing Condi War/Mesmer versus thief is not a legitimate argument here. The reason you might have not had as much success is because Condi War =/= Condi Mesmer. To reiterate, the builds and mechanics are different.

This is so wrong. Hard counters should be “an equally skilled or almost equally skilled (10 to a 9.5) player will have a greater chance to kill you because of a class mechanic” Otherwise, there would be no point if he is less skilled, he will never beat you if he is less skilled, if he does then i do not know what to say. That logic that thieves hard counters mesmers is true BUT, assuming this is equal skill. If you pitted me against a D/P thief more less skilled than me? (i.e. He is 7 and I am a 10) Goodluck to that thief.

If you still believe on your argument, Create a thief and fight my shatter mesmer. I am expecting you to win most if not all matches.

I’m not wrong at all. lol Whether you call it “class mechanic” or I say “innate imbalance between two specific build archetypes”, it still theoretically allows someone at a skill level of 7 to beat someone at a 10. The person at 10 has to work harder than the person at 7 if 7 is a hard counter. Maybe the thieves you’re facing are more of a 3 instead of a 7. I don’t think most thief players are very skillful at all anyway.

I don’t have to create a thief to prove the point, because countless high skilled shattered Mesmers have gotten destroyed by theives that were awfully less skill than them. Go watch some streams. I didn’t know this was even an argument among Mesmers.

Getting a 3/10 of a thief in my MMR (I still think it works somehow) is almost impossible.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

denis.9487:

Nieguen.6235:

ASP.8093:

Nieguen.6235:

basically: you are a thief attacking from 1200 range, with invuln/reflect.

Attacking at 1200 range greatly reduces your burst potential. Greatsword is ranged pressure but its real 100-to-0 burst capability is almost all melee (Mirror Blade into a shatter).

You can Blink in for the burst but then you’re sacrificing your best escape/positioning tool. It’s very much an “all-in” kind of move. Shatter Mesmers could always do it (there are some great videos!), the only thing that really changed now is Confounding Suggestions making the burst easier to stick, and trait changes allowing builds other than 4/4/0/0/6 to be playable without having rubbish damage output.

I think you understood my point. It was meaning “starting from”. And sorry but it was not rubbish at all pre-patch. You just needed to know what you were doing. Because one error and you were dead.
Whereas mesmer now: high reward without any skill.

So all other classes are high reward without any skill. Since Mesmer even with the best player skill pre patch had no identity in pvp struggled in wvw unless veiling and golem duty, and was not taken in pve. So since Mesmer joined the ranks with the other classes to actually have meaning in the environments we play we are “high reward without any skill”

That has nothing to do with ‘having meaning’ or not. It has to do with how much risk you need to invest to possibly get the result you want.

Ex. I want to cast meteor shower in the middle of a fight with a war. It is a big powerful spell that can win a fight if:

-If I accept to stay immobile for nearly 4 sec. if I want the full effect, possibly investing in long cd (armor or earth, magnetic aura etc.) to do it more safely or gambling it won’t be interrupted and I will survive that decision.

- If my positioning and placement is good enough and my opponent can’t get out of the aoe with no damage.

-the rgn of the ms is on my side.

Is the risk of playing that card at that moment while blowing these cd worth it? Or did I blew 2 cd and lost 50% + of my life for nothing?

what is the mesmer’s risk if he can reset any fight unless you one shot him? How difficult is it to land your burst if you can prepare it from stealth and it has a relatively low cd on it? How hard is it to interrupt something important when interrupts are so readily available? How dumb and reckless do you have to be to pay for your mistakes?

Landing burst from stealth is more difficult than a thief, was the same pre patch. Only thing is damage is a little off (high)for all classes. This has been discussed at length already and can be learned by playing. Each class has its own risk rewards. That ele your discussing has the same insane burst as a Mesmer, now phenomenal disengage potential and is invaluable in a Zerg.

It’s more than a L2P issue here I’m afraid. Beside, I still don’t see the relevance of saying eles are invaluable to zergs. I mean, yes they are but what does it have to do with risk vs reward?

The damage of the ele is also insanely high, like all now, that is true but, again, it comes with inherent risks that I really don’t see on the mesmers we have now. Like at all.

And your right there is no risk running an ele right now. Insane burst supreme sustain through heals and condition clearing and when it gets ugly zoom off to the races.

Am I to understand that you have run into an invasion of ele that you couldn’t hope to defeat with your mesmer when login in wvw lately? Strangely, what I saw was a spike in mesmer pop, not ele.

I main an ele and the win loss ratio vs mesmers is stupidly low for me despite the huge amount of hours I’ve invested in my profession… I suppose every blasted one of these mesmers I run in also have thousands of hours under their belt… make sense…

I’ll make a deal with you Denis. I’ll remove the dust of my shatter mesmer and you will play the zerk staff ele I roam with… We will test your theory about ele having no risk and compare how much more different it feels risky to you on the other side of the mirror…

Zerk staff ele is very hard if not the hardest class/spec to play. No contest.

Choppy.4183:

StickerHappy.8052:

This is so wrong. Hard counters should be “an equally skilled or almost equally skilled (10 to a 9.5) player will have a greater chance to kill you because of a class mechanic” Otherwise, there would be no point if he is less skilled, he will never beat you if he is less skilled, if he does then i do not know what to say. That logic that thieves hard counters mesmers is true BUT, assuming this is equal skill. If you pitted me against a D/P thief more less skilled than me? (i.e. He is 7 and I am a 10) Goodluck to that thief.

If you still believe on your argument, Create a thief and fight my shatter mesmer. I am expecting you to win most if not all matches.

Exactly. If someone wants to take the position that a build for one class is a hard counter to an entire class, regardless of massive skill imbalance between players, they’ve already conceded the balance argument.

Some people are being way too defensive about mesmers here. There’s been very little “OMFG nerf mesmers now!!1!111”, but if you can’t recognize the faceroll that mesmers have become relative to most other classes then you’re in the bubble. That doesn’t mean they’re immortal, or that other classes/builds can’t provide some challenge or even be favoured in some fights, but some balancing is clearly called for.

Exactly, I am not asking for nerfs, but denial that we got that most out of everything is what irks me off.

Alice.5360:

Maul is so freakin’ easy to avoid too. Any latency worse than your target’s and you look like an idiot throwin’ brearshadows at the air.

I know I know, burst is supposed to be a bit set up with stuns and roots and stuff. Just sayin’ it’s hella easy to avoid compared to other classes’ much harder hitting one button moves.

Maul is meh, See it coming? Interrupt. See it coming? Port. See it coming? Blind. See rf? Block, reflect, dodge, LoS.

Ross Biddle.2367:

StickerHappy.8052:

MailMail.6534:

StickerHappy.8052:

We got overbuffed people. Not hating. Just Keeping it real.

The only traits that need re-balancing are CS and PU. This is in addition to a game-wide scaling of power.

We are hardly the only class that got “overbuffed”. Outside of bugs, the only classes not needing much of a reworking are Warrior, Ranger and Necro.

Ranger not needing a rework? Are you serious?

Anyway, we are overbuffed dude. One example, What was the uniqueness of Shatter builds before? IP.

Guess what any build can now have an on demand shatter.

IE which is also a very powerful trait made baseline. Blink is a 1200 range stun breaker/port now.

15% Phantasm damage baseline. Tealots tested this with me, you know how much i zerker hits me? 8k in full glass. All 4 hits. One phantasm. Can be casted on range, in stealth, does not break stealth.

Those above are only baseline traits. NO new traits yet.

The new trait further bolsters this. 1200 range stun breaker/port, 24 second cd, 2 second reflect. adept major.

What’s the story here? The story is that “Mesmers have things from before as baseline”. The problem here is that saying so is rather redundant. At best its like operating within a veil of ignorance. Like, it doesnt help any to point it out because A: there’s no honest review of contrasting balance taking place, and B: those things are baseline now which means we start all discussions from the point that it is only right, fair, and balanced for them to exist that way within the core Mesmer class. To clarify: We’re not being given free traits. This is the Mesmer class. It’s beyond time for a shift in paradigm.

Your biggest issue in actually addressing balance issues, Stickers, is the same as most of the player base (which you see when reading all these Mesmer QQ threads). It’s an inability to let go of the past system and recognize there’s something completely different going on, and being created for.

SO you’re saying because it’s a core mechanic (not referring to IP, Imo that was a needed change)?
So by definition since ranger’s mechanic is the pet, Emphatic Bond should be baseline. You know how many people will rage over that?

Oh, this is not about letting go. Mesmers got overbuffed, a lot of players are saying that, even top ones. If you tone down burning, hell even mesmers will do more damage than eles.

This is also not about me getting destroyed by mesmers (ask chaos, icy, tealots, pepsi, duke, etc)

Yes you could say more diversity, but every build now is a mashup of shatter/interrupt/PU.

MailMail.6534:

Choppy.4183:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Condi mes was a thief hardcounter before the patch. If you played mes more you’d of known that -_-u

I don’t think you’re fully appreciating the skill difference here. I still had to look at my skill bar to figure out what to do next and wasn’t sure where the burns and bleeds were coming from. That I haven’t played enough mes to know condi mes was a hard counter to thief should be evidence enough that I have no business dominating them without breaking a sweat.

Even for a hard counter build, that’s ridiculous. Further, I doubt I would have had nearly as much success running a condi or hybrid warrior against them, and I actually know that class very well. Finally, I’ve been wrecking pretty serious face in wvw, considering how bad I am, using a PU shatter build.

Hard counters are called hard counters for a reason. It allows someone with less skill to easily beat someone with more skill due to the innate imbalances between two specific build archetypes.

Comparing Condi War/Mesmer versus thief is not a legitimate argument here. The reason you might have not had as much success is because Condi War =/= Condi Mesmer. To reiterate, the builds and mechanics are different.

This is so wrong. Hard counters should be “an equally skilled or almost equally skilled (10 to a 9.5) player will have a greater chance to kill you because of a class mechanic” Otherwise, there would be no point if he is less skilled, he will never beat you if he is less skilled, if he does then i do not know what to say. That logic that thieves hard counters mesmers is true BUT, assuming this is equal skill. If you pitted me against a D/P thief more less skilled than me? (i.e. He is 7 and I am a 10) Goodluck to that thief.

If you still believe on your argument, Create a thief and fight my shatter mesmer. I am expecting you to win most if not all matches.

MailMail.6534:

StickerHappy.8052:

We got overbuffed people. Not hating. Just Keeping it real.

The only traits that need re-balancing are CS and PU. This is in addition to a game-wide scaling of power.

We are hardly the only class that got “overbuffed”. Outside of bugs, the only classes not needing much of a reworking are Warrior, Ranger and Necro.

Ranger not needing a rework? Are you serious?

Anyway, we are overbuffed dude. One example, What was the uniqueness of Shatter builds before? IP.

Guess what any build can now have an on demand shatter.

IE which is also a very powerful trait made baseline. Blink is a 1200 range stun breaker/port now.

15% Phantasm damage baseline. Tealots tested this with me, you know how much i zerker hits me? 8k in full glass. All 4 hits. One phantasm. Can be casted on range, in stealth, does not break stealth.

Those above are only baseline traits. NO new traits yet.

The new trait further bolsters this. 1200 range stun breaker/port, 24 second cd, 2 second reflect. adept major.

What is a ranger burst?

Maul? This skill deals 5-6K full zerk on a light golem. Hardly A burst.

RF? RF is an low cd skill, channeled, I wouldn’t even call this a burst.

I mirror blade combo by itself, no shatters assuming its close range, 6k, Unblockable. Long Range.

Backstab? easily 8k+ In stealth, no tells, you get 1 more try for missing.

Maul is easily blinded, ported, evaded, distorted, interrupted.

I maul a mesmer, Ooops blinded by Mind wrack.

So what exactly is a ranger burst?

We got overbuffed people. Not hating. Just Keeping it real.

OneKlicKill.4285:

I run it on my ranger with fury, runes, and traits i can maintain 50% crit chance. Would it be nice if we could customize our stats like the old days, yeah, but lets be honest, that would be wayyyyyyy too hard to balance, just look at the game as it is now, they are trying to make it uber simple for their sake and claim its for “new players” to “remove incoming learning curve” or “something were bad at balance something excuse”

care to post the build..

Fluffball.8307:

Oakheart doesn’t have to outright save you, you also play differently based on your current health. You might start blowing cooldowns and LoSing if you’re nearly dead, and the ranger with 3k more health from regen and damage reduction is playing more aggressively.

The main point is that, anyone could say its a great trait, even if its bad, there is nothing you can slot over it.

Muddy Landing thingy anyone?
Pets Expertise anyone?

Necrotize.2974:

StickerHappy.8052:

Necrotize.2974:

sinject.4607:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Counters to blinding dissapiations and general mesmer bursts

Warrior: Resistance, endure pain, berserker stance. shield skill 5(traits that reflect projectiles)

Guardians: classical medi heals, tons of blocks either through aegis or focus skill number 5.

just a few examples. Mesmers aren’t unchecked. Maby u ought to actually counter thier abilities instead. Maby more lockdowns? More CC? Maby disengage from time to time? Maby ask your members to take the mesmer down?

blinding dissipation is completely broken, to remedy it either of these things need to happen:

• give it a sizable ICD to prevent it from simply being spammable

or (and probably the better solution)

• move it to grandmaster. since thief’s cloaked in shadows clearly warrants that placement, there is absolutely zero reason for two traits that are doing the exact same thing being differently tiered.

You are forgetting the fact that, we have distortions, we stealth and add those blinds with all the burst we can do.

Hell we can even trait with more reflects. BD is easily useable every 12 seconds, just on mind wrack.

Gimping damage? Mindwrack blind can easily do 2k with mental anguish. And this is only with IP.

With the addition of IP, you can access BD very very easily. No tells either.

Oh I forgot one more thing. We can also trait BD with Mental Defense. Burst + Defense right here. Not encounting distortion and stealth.

No chaos armor either. No Ineptitude.

You’re basically cherry picking the best situations. I haven’t seen many mesmer take Mental Anguish, especially not over power block. Mostly because you’ll rarely hit a target using no skills unless you’re running interrupts, in which case Power Block is better so there’s no real reason.

A build that contains all of the things you’re listing would need Domination+Inspiration+Dueling, so its not a condi build and thus unlikely to be running Ineptitude and probably not having reliable access to Chaos armor, especially not if they’re traiting for reflects because that means they have focus and their other weapon will need to be GS for burst. This also means no torch, so their stealth is either Mass Invis or Decoy. Due to the trait options that also means no PU so stealth isn’t over the top either.

So you’ve got a Sword/Focus+GS mesmer(but probably not an interrupt build) running Decoy+Blink and leaving one slot for condi mitigation because if you traited focus you’re not getting it from Inspiration(you have the bugged Power Cleanse minor but that’s really not enough against any heavy condi class, especially if you aren’t running PU).

Is the build workable? Sure. Mesmer has great build diversity now. But its not over the top. Building to have all those things you listed just means you pass up arguable better things purely to abuse Blinding Dissipation.

Just in case its unclear, I play mostly SPvP. I WvW’d for a while, but I got tired of my assassin build and didn’t feel like regearing so I just stopped.

Ineptitude does not necessarily mean condition. This trait can work well with power just because of the blinds. You want the blinds not that 1 stack of confusion.

Also you can go Staff with a power build. Chaos’ uses staff in a zerk build. So that argument of yours in not gonna work.

Bottom line is, we got the most out of everything. Too much blinds, Too much stealth, Too much Damage, Too much reflects, Too much interrupts/CC.

Take a look at this:

Baseline traits are already enough to make us stronger.
IP,IE,Manipulation Range, Glamour CD, 15%Phantasm Damage, Protective Mantras, Mantras are now auto charging (I forgot how to name this one)

We had a very powerful GM made baseline, another equally good master trait IE, baseline. Additional 15% baseline phantasm damage.

Blink is now 1200 range by default, trait it with an adept major trait, and you get a 24 second 1200 range tele stun breaker, with reflect on it.

Check out Mirror. 12 second Cooldown with a 4 second reflect that heals for 8k in less than 25 seconds.

Do not tell me these are not powerful enough.

PS: The main uniqueness of shatter before was IP and DE. Now any build can have IP.

Eurantien.4632:

@ Dojo, I agree with you. Which is why sometimes someone might say, “Phew, that oakheart salve 5% just saved me!” because they could make it out of a fight with like 200 hp. Most of the time that isn’t the case though. It’s not a bad pick up but with what its compared too, its the only pick up.

The thing is Eura, on that spot, nothing compares to Oakheart. Making it the only choice.
That WS line is so uninspiring for me.

Necrotize.2974:

sinject.4607:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Counters to blinding dissapiations and general mesmer bursts

Warrior: Resistance, endure pain, berserker stance. shield skill 5(traits that reflect projectiles)

Guardians: classical medi heals, tons of blocks either through aegis or focus skill number 5.

just a few examples. Mesmers aren’t unchecked. Maby u ought to actually counter thier abilities instead. Maby more lockdowns? More CC? Maby disengage from time to time? Maby ask your members to take the mesmer down?

blinding dissipation is completely broken, to remedy it either of these things need to happen:

• give it a sizable ICD to prevent it from simply being spammable

or (and probably the better solution)

• move it to grandmaster. since thief’s cloaked in shadows clearly warrants that placement, there is absolutely zero reason for two traits that are doing the exact same thing being differently tiered.

Anet made it pretty clear that GM traits are supposed to be build defining. Blind on shatter is already limited by the fact that its tied to mesmer’s burst and its probably the reason why Cry of Frustration has such a long cd for what it does compared to Mind Wrack. If it did have an ICD, it should be shorter than 10 seconds. This enables it to be up for each Mind Wrack should the mesmer need it, but prevents it from being triggered after a burst or repeatedly with MR+CoF+Diversion in a short period of time. Or give the mesmer more control over it and increase the ICD slightly. A blind that triggers whether you want it or not when you burst is not so great compared to one that can be used independently whenever you want, albeit on an ICD.

Cross class comparisons are also not a strong argument for changes. Could apply literally the exact same argument to say that Cloaked in Shadows should be Master tier since it has an added effect and all other classes have their fall damage trait at Adept. Or that it should be there because it is a combination of a master tier trait and an adept trait. Its flawed logic.

You are forgetting the fact that, we have distortions, we stealth and add those blinds with all the burst we can do.

Hell we can even trait with more reflects. BD is easily useable every 12 seconds, just on mind wrack.

Gimping damage? Mindwrack blind can easily do 2k with mental anguish. And this is only with IP.

With the addition of IP, you can access BD very very easily. No tells either.

Oh I forgot one more thing. We can also trait BD with Mental Defense. Burst + Defense right here. Not encounting distortion and stealth.

No chaos armor either. No Ineptitude.

sinject.4607:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Counters to blinding dissapiations and general mesmer bursts

Warrior: Resistance, endure pain, berserker stance. shield skill 5(traits that reflect projectiles)

Guardians: classical medi heals, tons of blocks either through aegis or focus skill number 5.

just a few examples. Mesmers aren’t unchecked. Maby u ought to actually counter thier abilities instead. Maby more lockdowns? More CC? Maby disengage from time to time? Maby ask your members to take the mesmer down?

blinding dissipation is completely broken, to remedy it either of these things need to happen:

• give it a sizable ICD to prevent it from simply being spammable

or (and probably the better solution)

• move it to grandmaster. since thief’s cloaked in shadows clearly warrants that placement, there is absolutely zero reason for two traits that are doing the exact same thing being differently tiered.

Exactly, I posted this on the mesmer forums but guess what?

you can activate BD with every shatter, Just take in for example 1 shatter on a 12 second cd. Aoe Blind on a 12 second cd (with damage) and we still have 3 more shatters, 4 with chronomancy

Pair this with chaos armor and ineptitude.

Those denying this fact are delusional.

Necrotize.2974:

Laraley.7695:

Ross Biddle.2367:

It’s funny because I’ve been watching players in game start adapting and bringing builds/strategy to either take Mesmers down, or shut them out.

Guess you guys need to L2P

That, or keep honing your forum warriors kills

It’s funny that usually the bad players who needed mesmers to be this overbuffed now tell everyone to l2p.

People who are actually good at their class realize where the issues are and what needs to be toned down.

Did it maybe occur to you that mesmer could have been underpowered before and the well known pro mesmers had to overcompensate to be viable against pro players from other classes? Naturally if mesmers got buffed in any way, the people that were already very skilled at playing mesmer would feel like they didn’t need to try as hard.

Also, people are quick to cite the pros until their views conflict with yours, then they’re just noob mesmers again. Its been 2 weeks since the patch hit, at least let the big fixes come and the meta settle before trying to neuter things, regardless of class.

No. Mesmers have never been underpowered. It required skill pre patch. 3k games with mesmer here. Seriously all those so called mesmers defending the state of the class now are getting carried by traits.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Prophet.1584:

i’m not sure about MoC and Remorseless stacking but i don’t believe you would get 75% since they are multiplicatively added not additively.

100% damage + MoC +50% = 150%. 150% + Remorseless +25% = 1.5 × 1.25 = 1.875 = 187.5%, so it should do even more damage if done multiplicatively.

Best way to test is in the Mists.

Where does the 100% damage come from?

denis.9487:

Pride.1734:

No i mean stealth.
(Honestly you might start by improving your manners when you want to be taken seriously.)

I still mean most players have adjusted. It is not as easy as it was 3 weeks ago. The stealth was pre patch also. So again my manners might be poor but just irritated with all the distress from Mesmer actually being viable and how it is welcomed. I say viable not op or godmode. Again all classes need stats looked at since being taken off trait lines. Then see where we stand.

I have 3k games with mesmer, and I find them the most hard to fight for me.

denis.9487:

Pride.1734:

Thats an easy one. Power shatter Mesmers nearly got their full trait setup baseline. Now they can take all the fancy multipliers and/or PU they ever wanted. Honestly i don’t think it will last but it sure is fun oneshotting people in godmode.

Dunno about condi.

Another hater coming to trash Mesmer in the forums. Correct ip was made baseline to help Mesmer use our class mechanic since shattering pre patch a very rigid trait line with no room to choose anything else. With post patch Mesmer can shatter but now has access to some form of sustain wether pu(hated by all who don’t understand, Mesmer can still burst with or without from stealth) or inspiration for more condition clearing. It is far from godmode this might just be a simple learn to play issue along with having all stat combinations reduced since they are off trait lines for all classes.

Baseline traits are already enough to make us stronger.
IP,IE,Manipulation Range, Glamour CD, 15%Phantasm Damage, Protective Mantras, Mantras are now auto charging (I forgot how to name this one)
This is ALL without the new powerful traits we have gotten. So the people saying that “Oh mesmer gotten buffed, so other people needs to fight them better now”
This is blatantly wrong.
In my opinion, mesmer was never weak pre-patch, the only problem we had before was the thief hard counter, and we are overshadowed by thieves in a team" <- this is pvp wise.

You can have a build with a lot of blinds + sustain + dmg

Just admit it guys, We got overbuffed compared to other classes.

Prophet.1584:

dead pet bug doesn’t seem to be on the list of ranger bugs in the bug forum, you should add it there.

i’m not sure about MoC and Remorseless stacking but i don’t believe you would get 75% since they are multiplicatively added not additively.

So how much more would MoC + Remorseless be?

I am seeing very very similar numbers.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Your pet should be alive if you swap to it.

Attack of Opportunity and Remorseless should stack.

7/7 for bugs.

So, forgive me for being slow.

So are these verified bugs?

Correct me If I am wrong but before the patch, if your pet died, and swap it out for (60 seconds) when you swap it back in, it will be fully alive right? Or thats how I remember it.

Now, I have those instances that I can swap to my other pet to only find that it is still dead.

Another question I have is does MoC stack with Remorseless so giving you 75% damage?

Because they have no lives (sorta), they have all the time to get good.

Daniel Handler.4816:

It is quite literally l2p. I know I sound somewhat bias in that assessment, but think about it. The class is based around confusion, (literal and the condition). We have more interrupt traits than any other class, we still remain in gw2 a class devoted to locking down opponents. Take all the “brokenness” of stealth and add a class that doesn’t attack you directly most of the time. Add in the general hate of AI.

We are the class that punishes people who lack restraint or experience, which is every new player ever.

I think after the patch, experience is not even a factor anymore. The mesmer community should just accept the fact that we got the most out of everything.

Baseline traits are already enough to make us stronger.

IP,IE,Manipulation Range, Glamour CD, 15%Phantasm Damage, Protective Mantras, Mantras are now auto charging (I forgot how to name this one)

This is ALL without the new powerful traits we have gotten. So the people saying that “Oh mesmer gotten buffed, so other people needs to fight them better now”

This is blatantly wrong.

In my opinion, mesmer was never weak pre-patch, the only problem we had before was the thief hard counter, and we are overshadowed by thieves in a team" <- this is pvp wise.

PS: I am not asking for nerfs or anything. All I am pointing out is memsers were never weak pre patch.

Curunen.8729:

I personally don’t see the distinction between these build anymore.

If you’ve got high power and crit (running glassy), then you may as well use mind wracks as well as phantasms and weapon skills to add up the damage. There’s no sense in ignoring other damage sources.

Then it’s just the varying level of “control” the build has – from minimal control (ie, sword/torch, no control traits) to full control (MoD, GS, Pistol/Focus, Staff, and assosciated traits).

This is the most accurate post I have seen in the forums (first part of your post) while spending my time scouting.

I can never really tell a build now, Everything looks like a mashup of shatter/lockdown/PU of some sort. It’s sad that the uniqueness of builds are gone.

messiah.1908:

yuo can blind melee class more easily
stealth more easily
you can burst 100-1 in 2 sec zerk armor
you have good range dmg
good invulnerability with sword and distortion
great cc and dmg while cc

what more do you need

i play memser and i hate mesmers

We can also trait for high damage + high defense now. now including stealth.
At last someone finally speaking the truth.

We also have a lot of blinds now, A lot of distortions now, A lot of reflects now.

I think 15-20 sec ICD is okay.

Why is everyone saying you get perma 5 stacks of might? How does that even happen? Even with blast finisher its only 4?

Clarion only gives you 1 stack of might

It’s because bad players pre patch are being carried by traits post patch.

Aomine.5012:

ItIsFinished.9462:

It’s sad to always see Ranger at the bottom of these lists….

It’s sadder that some people can still complain about ranger even though it’s already at the bottom lol..

Like the guy above me. LOL ^^^^^

Amityel.5324:

Capito.2046:

For me:
1)Mesmer (OP burst+interrupt+Survability+Stealth all the time)

that epic inspiration (survivebility) domination(interupts) chaos (stealth) dueling build…….oh wait its 4 trees and you can have only 3

What are you even talking about? CI is in the chaos line. Survivability chaos and inspiration has em both. Burst? Even without domination, we have 15% phantasm damage baseline, IP baseline, IE baseline (mirror blade burst)

Stealth, we have MI with manipulation mirror trait, torch 4, veil, decoy, desperate decoy – hey guess what this do not need traits to have stealth

Morwath.9817:

Is that weird for you that they communicate with Tournament Players (e.g. Backpack) more than with ‘randoms’ crying about everything?

Yes it is, don’t they make bad decisions too? I for one do not like some of the balance ideas here, and where does that leave me?

Oh if X top player says this needs to changed or addressed even when its not, What do you do? Oh you must be one of those conformists that put top players on a pedestal.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18XFYTY8MKQZRVDKhNvCKXDWKmVggj0JbQH25WBIIboM/pub#h.3qbvrg7fq7kg

Grouch – Let me clarify:
Since the 6/23 release, dozens upon dozens of players have sent me bugs, exploits, suggestions – etc. This particular group of players decided to put their feedback into a document that they could all edit and then shoot over to me to take a look at. It has been particularly helpful in for nailing down a number of balance affecting bugs, similar to the comprehensive lists that have popped up in a number of the profession forums.
So, to be very clear: this list is neither written nor maintained by myself or anyone else at ArenaNet. It is a list of issues (bugs and balance) that players would like to see addressed.

How do I even get to be one of these lucky people that gets entertained by devs when most of the bugs/ balances/ reworks in each class forum just tend to get ignored?

Are balance ideas just in the mouths of the “popular” minority?

Where do I sign up?

Rym.1469:

I would like to see promised Profession Forum Specialists, though.

We really need those. And it’s not like there’s a lack of good candidates.

IMO, most forum people only post or type “good”, a lot of these forum warriors are baddies in game. I think their perception of balance is skewed.

messiah.1908:

StickerHappy.8052:

messiah.1908:

Curunen.8729:

messiah.1908:

for LB ranger it should be easy match up against condi shatter

condi shatter needs to be melee range to do good dmg (with ip) so he would try to blink to you and shatter

the blind when dodging is 10 sec cd so your only concern is shatter skills which again melee range

for melee classes condi shatter with blind its harder (works against our harder counter, warrior and thieves) but it balance as they can hit harder so 4 blinds wont make huge difference rather if they used right on burst skills.

the problem ppl forget to adapt to the new metas ans skills and play like before and failing.

Mirror heal and blurred frenzy together with ineptitude give me a very easy time against LB rangers.

I lack raw condition burst because of not using scepter, but have some advantages against certain classes/builds.

as it should be as you said melee range .so its mind game . LB can bait your heal and then burst. he can fear you and immobilize you with wolf and dog etc..

thus i think it fair game.

Bait what? Mirror is 4 seconds reflect when traited, you know that right? against an LB ranger I could just pop out my heal without fear.

RF from range? MoD says Hi, stealth then burst.

bait= use AA or weapon stew . if you dont heal your hp will be 50% if oyu heal he can use stability and burst you with no fear of interupt and so on.

again mind game he try to counter you and you him but not op as you cant kill all rangers every time and the game is not design for 1v1 rather group play. so the ranger can target you his team pressure you to heal and blink/stealth and then he burst you with ease . like thieves looking for 50% hp member to burst it down easily

It does not matter, while he is in LB you can 100% safely heal up. Except if he fears you with wolf. Or kds with dog (chances are highly unlikely since this is RNG on a 45 second cd)

I think you got the situations reversed. I am saying LB ranger vs mesmer (in favor of mesmer)

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Raif.9507:

Pimsley.3681:

I know a lot of the suggestions from that list were covered on the forums. The difference is the general fairness the suggestions were for all classes.

Class bias, if any, remained very subtle unlike the stuff people post about like nerfing their counters out of existence. Hope they consider that list.

Oh, and it’s great for necros to have Bhawb. He’s the necromancer lobbyist, always looking after balance concerns for the class.

Except for elementalist. Seems like there are no ideas/proposals about them beyond “Water/Arcana is too necessary”. I wish one of the “big names” who plays ele as a main would actually step up and do something like this. Before you say why don’t you do it, I have sent in things in the past, but it isn’t the same coming from me then lets say… Phantaram.

I already listed specific changes that would rework eles without overnerfing them to the point of uselessness. This should tone down eles overall to a reasonable level. Copying and pasting from my other thread. Ele main here btw.

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes to 10s or so PER target so it’s not completely useless to take.

2: Raise the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.

3: Rework diamond skin so it works as a resistance buff that procs for 4 secs every time you swap into earth while above the 75% health threshold to promote more skillful counterplay.

4: Rework burning across all professions aka scale it down.

5: Possibly rework the might stacking capabilities of ele by scaling it down a bit to promote more skillful play and more teamwork. Maybe by starting with the pyromancer’s puissance trait in fire or the might on cantrip in fire.

6: I say keep the healing/sustain on ele since we have one of the lowest hp pools and armor anyways.

7: Remove protection altogether from the elemental contigency trait (which is rng) since we have enough access to protection anyways. So replace it with something like swiftness or regen.

8: Rework Ferocious Winds and revert it back to the trait it was pre patch aka gain healing power based on precision. That way we can give marauder/zerk eles some kind of sustain to encourage more build diversity.

Feel free to add those to the document since they’re constructive/reasonable nerfs.

He said he wishes one of the ‘’big names’’ who plays ele would step up and do it, not some forum warrior who wants to make certain traits useless. Yes, please give me freaking healing power on a zerker amulet, all I want.

We all know that you are the forum warrior here. Duel him and dispute his points? If you are really skilled as your posts suggest…..

But… thats none of my business..

I think most of the bad mesmers pre patch are now being carried by traits post patch.

Eurantien.4632:

Light on your Feet currently increases condi duration by 100%.

Yep, but they will nerf it so we are back to square 1. For sure they will nerf it. That’s why I asked to just replace that effect entirely.

Tragic Positive.9356:

StickerHappy.8052:

Might as well change it something else, 10% damage is good enough for me, buffing this is more than welcome

Well, Power Rangers need a source of burst. And this would be the ideal place to address the issue. I had a mass DPS test in PvP area and Warriors and Guardians said they are hitting for 32K with auto-attacks (full buffed, my Frost Spirit, banners etc).
My maul hit for 12K peak.

Plus skirmishing is a perfect trait-line to buff direct damage burst. If you want to go for burst – you need remorseless. And if you took MM and Skirmishing, you either have to choose between BM (cc) or Wilderness Surival (condi cleanse)
And you do not even have Protective Ward regardless of option.

10% is just not cool. Maybe if it was a 10% global damage modifier – we could talk. But that would again become really boring since all a Ranger does for DPS is auto-attacks. At least for PvP we could gain a sort of Peak Burst by combining Remorseless, LoYF, SotW and SotH – and we still wouldn’t go past 12K, even might buffed against light armor.

So how bout the 10% condi duration? This is the most useless effect of it, since we lost condi duration on MM line.

I would say keep the 10% damage one or buff it, then add a damage effect to replace the condi duration. Any thoughts?

@Heim

I agree with you making it on evade will make it more skillful too at the same time. And this synergizes with SB 3 for god’s sake this is an SB centered (most part) trait.

We could just add a global damage modifier for SB too, SB still didnt get any love, no damage buff, no range buff.

Tragic Positive.9356:

I’d actually welcome a mechanic that stays the same way it is now.

But the 10% condi and direct damage should go up to 25-30%.
Well I mean yea. You have to sacrifice Quick Draw for it. And you do have to stop attacking by dodging for it to work – so it is not a DPS increase for PvE. You also sacrifice utility/defense uses from Quick Draw.
And the access to this trait is very limited by nerfed endurance and Vigor

25-30% seems just about fine. It would actually make a viable choice for those bursty builds that focus solely on hitting that Maul and/or Rapid Fire. And since shortbow benefits from both Condi and Direct – it might just as well become a wanted weapon for PvP.

They wouldn’t do that, I honestly do not see the point of 10% condi duration pvp. 3 second bleeds will be 3.3? LOL

Might as well change it something else, 10% damage is good enough for me, buffing this is more than welcome

messiah.1908:

Curunen.8729:

messiah.1908:

for LB ranger it should be easy match up against condi shatter

condi shatter needs to be melee range to do good dmg (with ip) so he would try to blink to you and shatter

the blind when dodging is 10 sec cd so your only concern is shatter skills which again melee range

for melee classes condi shatter with blind its harder (works against our harder counter, warrior and thieves) but it balance as they can hit harder so 4 blinds wont make huge difference rather if they used right on burst skills.

the problem ppl forget to adapt to the new metas ans skills and play like before and failing.

Mirror heal and blurred frenzy together with ineptitude give me a very easy time against LB rangers.

I lack raw condition burst because of not using scepter, but have some advantages against certain classes/builds.

as it should be as you said melee range .so its mind game . LB can bait your heal and then burst. he can fear you and immobilize you with wolf and dog etc..

thus i think it fair game.

Bait what? Mirror is 4 seconds reflect when traited, you know that right? against an LB ranger I could just pop out my heal without fear.

RF from range? MoD says Hi, stealth then burst.

They didnt even mention the LOYF DURATION BUG.

What a dev.

Enjoy.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18XFYTY8MKQZRVDKhNvCKXDWKmVggj0JbQH25WBIIboM/pub#h.3qbvrg7fq7kg

Thought?

Tealots.6095:

I’m going to echo Pyro here. The real times I felt in danger during our duels was when you were close to me. You had condis and auto attacks cleaving my clones, so any shatter I performed was, yes, blinding you, but ultimately ineffective because I was only landing 1 stack of torment and two of confusion.

It’d be worse for you if you kept your range. Any time I dodge or evade, you’d be blinded (granting me more avoidance) and my Mirror heal is 4 seconds of reflect (and with adventure runes, allows me to dodge again).

BD plus Ineptitude does make fighting Mesmers troublesome. But as you noticed, it was moreso when I was running PU.

I’m also still learning how to play condi (or Rampagers at least, which is still capable of direct damage burst).

But you were playing condie and it was hard too. Imagine someone playing with power, a single IP MW will hit for ~2kCrit or more with the blind.

About melee, there is still nothing i can do in range, you can either interrupt me, reflect, etc.

Cast phantasms or nuke me to death in range.

Wow people here critiquing the thief for missing steals lol. If you were that thief i dont think you would last long in that duel.

Even without pu, that match will be problematic.

Blinding dissipation is super strong when you pair it with distortion, reflects plus stealths.

Also mesmer “mains” fyi the mes was running mental defense, this will. Take the thief a while do a significant burst.

While phants wail at him, shatters with ip so you get on demand blinds on a 12 sec cd aoe, with just the f1’ pair this torch blind and ineptitude, goodluck fighting that mesmer.

Grimreaper.5370:

Supreme.3164:

Grimreaper.5370:

Empty Sky.6354:

If the video isn’t most credible source to demonstrate,then this whole thread of yours loses meaning.
If you want more challenge with ele,take away your energy sigil,your cele amulet,etc. We will see then,how much you cry about eles.
And if you wanna make proper video of players with skills,not just spam,then do that as well. Ranger had free dps on you and he was evading for whatever reason and running around and you also spaming everything. Towards end,where ranger had you low,he started evading and every few seconds he AA you,so you had time to fully heal up again.

If you would like to duel me I could show you just how powerful the class is in game. I’d also like to see you fight the players that were in the video so you can reassess their skill level.

I actually often don’t run cele and challenge my self by running Marauder or even Zerker.

Made a video using celestial amulet…then claims he doesn’t run cele to challenge himself, so post a video of you playing zerker d/d ele

:| I didn’t make this thread to prove my skill level, I made it because I wanted to prove a point about the class countering a few other classes a tad too easily.

I’d prefer the game be more skill based and less about counters.

I dueled lettuce yesterday, and I would say ELE is OP atm, the sustain even with 0 healing power is kittened. Pair this up with the current burning scaling. He used d/f, I would say D/D would be even harder. Only time i beat him is when he used Marauders, even them it was really an uphill battle.

@ALL

DUEL LETTUCE OR THIS GUY PLEASE, Then we can see which people here in the forums only talk too much.