Am I the only one who found Chaos/Illusion condi mesm slightly too strong?
This is because you come from a land of objectivity and there is no place for that in these forums.
On the other hand, people are justifiably upset that mesmers got nerfed right off the bat when other classes are churning out insane stacks of burning on top of loads of cover condis.
If you ask me, Chaos/Illusion is really strong + changes to scepter. IE now is default So you can now trait a diff master trait, (mTD), ineptitude is also strong (confusion+ blind).
Running with triple traps I can nuke the Niflhel beasts in about 13 seconds flat. I don’t see how anyone can survive a triple trap set up on a point without some incredible reaction time, a stun breaker, and some really good condi cleanse.
The way I used traps before the patch got incredibly strong. Trapper ranger may well become a solid meta point holder depending on how things go. Drop traps on point and just wait. Someone comes in and you use Entangle after the spike trap knockdown and well… That enemy will almost assuredly be dead unless they manage an escape.
Don’t forget Quickdraw Bonfire and Beastly Warden on a Drakehound.
If they go on point. A mesmer or ranger or engie can just kite you outside of the point.
I always had an energy sigil on my sword/staff exactly because I like wasting dodges, it didn’t change post patch, and I don’t see myself lacking that many evasion :/
I do agree with you on your build. But I do use GS Sw/torch so i had energy only on 1 set.
and dont forget on top of blink you get an 8 sec PR to avoid further damage.
Clone production on staff is better because PR procs a clone without needing a target, and staff is more defensive due to CS and Chaos armor so I am guessing you don’t necessarily need to dodge in order to mitigate damage.
Traps have always been useless in higher tier pvp for the exact reasons you mentioned: pets, clones and simple dodges constantly trip them. I honestly don’t see any difference in trap viability after patch.
While you do have points, I played trapper in tournies and had great success with them.
Throwing traps gives you better positioning of traps, and at the same time can be used to “burst” since you can throw them directly at foes’ feet, compared to setting a trap and waiting for them to come to you.
Traps are waaaaaayy better before since you can aim them,. you can even throw them under the ledges in maps like Kyhlo to damage the ones above them.
Arming time although miniscule affects that too since the foe can likely just get out of the trap even before it triggers.
Also, traps had 100% condition duration increase before.
You can throw the trap directly at your foe to prevent random triggers from clones and AI.
Shatter hits insanely harder now which is a no brainer.
But i noticed i find myself standing most of the time because of the vigor nerf.
Imo, DE and the vigor nerf is counter productive. I mean yes you need to plan your burst now, but with the trait changes and amulet changes going full zerk will only net you 16k hp.
PS: An interrupt mesmer eats me alive, An izerker when it crits hits for 8k. 1 phantasm takes half of my life, Power Block deals 3k-5k damage on 1 interrupt. + all the interrupt traits you will be getting.
So dodging zerker will blow one of your dodges and the clone might end dying on the spin.
do with your enemies. Half of the defensive abilities are going to be blown just from entering your point.
Not potent at all?
As already said: I’m fine if the traps can be thrown. But that would ask for higher arming time (1 / 1,5 seconds? ) for enemies to have chance to walk out of there (I’d like to see your rage at that point, guyz).
Ranged AoE knockdown on 20 second cooldown that cannot be blocked? Yea, sure, I would like that too.
And that’s why it’s wrong to have it. Traps should be defensive. Not offensive. And they can slap some serious a** at the moment. But you need to know why and where to use them.
Assuming they are braindead enough to stay in a trap that long. 15 seconds chill is hardly possible against a decent player without blowing all your immobs, but then again he can just cleanse or port away.
You are clearly flamebaiting. I see a lot of your threads like this. pathetic.
I’m sorry if i offended u in some way. But this thread is an honest thread i made to see the views of the comunity on who will be king of the hill come patch day.
If u really want to see what flame baiting is, go look at the player made wvw forums. Tat is real flame baiting
Really? Your thread in the mesmer forum just got deleted. lol. King of the hill? Do we have a gamemode like that?
We have dueling rooms called king of the hill where players are supposed to fight using tpvp roaming builds.
There are rules enforced by the room admins to avoid tanky classes but sometimes you still see builds tailored exclusively for dueling, it’s kinda against the point of playing a realistic duel but w/e, at least it’s helpful to learn more about mechanics and stuff.
I Know that lol. I am saying in contrast of the title (clearly a flame bait thread), and now we put KoTH as a justification.?
For future reference, this will turn into “X class is….so nerf x class..” thread and so on.
Wow. This poster has made a lot of “queries”.
Like the thread in the thief forum, “so mesmers will be > thieves context”
The other thread in the mesmer forum “Mesmer is the only class with no complaints?”
Like really????
@OP
So you are saying your thread is crudely written that’s why its closed? LOL.
You are clearly flamebaiting. I see a lot of your threads like this. pathetic.
I’m sorry if i offended u in some way. But this thread is an honest thread i made to see the views of the comunity on who will be king of the hill come patch day.
If u really want to see what flame baiting is, go look at the player made wvw forums. Tat is real flame baiting
Really? Your thread in the mesmer forum just got deleted. lol. King of the hill? Do we have a gamemode like that?
Please just post your moments when your pet has utterly failed you.
Here is mine, this just happened. I was low on HP and out of resources. I ran away from a LB Ranger and used a corner to lose LoS. At that corner, I ordered my wolf to use his fear, so that the Ranger, when he gets around the corner, gets feared away. But instead of channeling his fear, my wolf continued to follow me. The LB Ranger got around the corner and downed me. As my pet closes up to me, it suddenly starts channeling his fear, completely useless, completely wasted. This AI is useless. Simple as that.
I would suggest detargetting before using the Canine f2s, so that they cast it immediately on the spot.
I can’t understand in the slightest how all the nay-sayers are arguing that throwable traps would be like grenades. You can lay your traps down before a fight starts, just like you can after the update. You can do that even faster, since you can cover a bigger area when throwing the traps. Grenades explode instant, while traps remain until an enemy steps on them. Also, grenades can be thrown further. The only difference between today and tuesday is that today your traps don’t become completely and utterly useless when the enemy starts running away.
Because people throw traps directly onto opponents as they like the instant activation. If you’re just going to throw them around the general area and guide the enemies into it, you might as well just be placing them at your feet.
No one that runs a trap build will spread them out either. They will generally try to “trap bomb” them by having them all go off at the same time. For that, it doesn’t really matter if you place them at your feet or on throw them off to the side. If you have time to throw you traps all over the place and make enemies run into them, you also have time to move to those places to set them and get the enemies to run into them.
And if someone wants to run away from your traps, they’re going to get away. Throwing traps is a relatively poor option to stop runners, especially considering the other options available to rangers.
The other main reason people like throwable traps is because they can throw them off to some obscure area and more or less guarantee the stealth activation since an enemy won’t run over them. It has nothing to do with “unique playstyles” or “using the traps more effectively”, it’s just about getting the benefits of the trapper runes to trigger without even really needing the trap to do anything at all (being a makeshift thief).
Some of the things throwable traps did provide was the ability to attack people on or below ledges with your traps (again, making them essentially grenades), and being able to throw them towards people without exposing yourself to the enemy’s melee attacks.
The actual traps themselves are also getting buffed, with more significant initial effects, so it’s not like they will be objectively less powerful. Of course, the cripple portion of the trait is quite lackluster, so hopefully they’ll buff that at some point.
Exactly this, Traps are so underpowered I would rather “trap bomb” them.
IF they did something remarkable and change the tides of battle, then we can talk about strategic placing for them.
Seriously thrown trap were awfully situational you couldnt hit them as they were slow projectile and were not instant triggered. Perso nothing changed with the traps. My only complain would be the dragon hunter traps.
Situational? I ran Cele trapper in the recent ToL. We ranked top 9 in our bracket so….
What were you saying again?
Stacks are something else, but more so it gives us some capability to tag a lot of players and screw up some skill-spammers. Plus, I really want to call myself an Inept Mesmer. Just has a nice ring to it, y’know?
Yes fair points, but the thing is, how does 2 stacks punish skill spammers? You could argue we have a lot of confusion sources now but how many are aoe? Shatters (if you trait in that line) and Mistrust, Everything else is Single target (not sure how many) scepter 3 is aoe but people need to be in a line.
AoE, sure, but this is capless in potential targets. Say 2~10 Mesmers go all dodge-and-blurred on a zerg and you’ve got potentially 10 stacks across half or more of the zerg. Ideally, of course.
So..the best bang for the buck is run it with other mesmers, so what if you wanna roam?
I don’t think there’s any ICD on the confusion. That’s why it’s only 1 stack for 4 seconds. I think the ICD is on the block/evasion causing blind. Blurred Frenzy, Blinding Dissipation, Sword4, Scepter2, Aegis and dodging.
There is ICD on the confusion (10 secs). It was confirmed on the stream. So yea all those sources are only giving confusion every 10 secs
Stacks are something else, but more so it gives us some capability to tag a lot of players and screw up some skill-spammers. Plus, I really want to call myself an Inept Mesmer. Just has a nice ring to it, y’know?
Yes fair points, but the thing is, how does 2 stacks punish skill spammers? You could argue we have a lot of confusion sources now but how many are aoe? Shatters (if you trait in that line) and Mistrust, Everything else is Single target (not sure how many) scepter 3 is aoe but people need to be in a line.
Even with stealth, most people I face in pvp would either randomly dodge or use a skill that evades or invuln or stealth when they see me stealth. Again not to discredit the OP, but I just find it really surprising.
Uhmm you are a really skilled mesmer I can tell. I do have one question though, I hope you don’t get offended. I watched every video you posted and it still surprises me how people don’t move around that much and eat a mirror blade burst to face.
I really struggle to land it in pvp especially against good thieves.
regarding traps, it MAY be possible to run Poison Master with them. it certainly makes poison trap very appealing. you don’t need WK or EB if you slot Healing Spring, SoR, and maybe use the brown bear.
too bad PM only affects 1 trap, if this trait said "33% chance to poison foes on critical 10 sec ICD on top of the current use, that would be great!
Well really I think something is being touched on that is a source of problem.
Traps that are low cd and purely offensive in nature maybe shouldn’t exist as a utility. Look at necro marks. Would anyone use the marks as utility? Maybe Reaper’s Mark? Certainly wouldnt use all 3 utility slots as marks even with their 1200 range. If they gave stealth too?
Who isn’t tempted by a 12sec flame trap. Really they should redo the utility traps to be 30-60 sec recharge worthy and be less weapon skill and more utility. Then later add weapon that has 4 traps like flame, viper, frost and torment vine traps.
Exactly unless they provide something unique that make them a “trap”
LF: Really good thief, so can anyone multiclass and play a really good thief? Preferably D/P thief. Must be really good, otherwise it wouldn’t be a challenge and we won’t learn anything right?
Goal: Don’t you feel like the generic forum tips on how to fight thieves don’t work anymore on higher MMRs? I thought about setting up practice duels against really good thieves so that we can have an idea on how to fight back.
I felt like “yes they hard counter shatter mesmers, but I would rather put up a decent fight than accepting this as a reality”
Event After I get thieves to practice with us, then I will schedule days on when it will be held!
I can try and contact a really good thief I know but he has been on hiatus.
( I mean like rylock lvl. except for d/p + p/d thief ).
Anyways if this is for after the patch i’m all for it until then ill be theory crafting XD
Nice, I mean even if this was before patch, it would’t really any different than after patch, I am guessing it would be the same rotations, etc but with more traits. So knowing when, what to dodge and do will still be a good thing to know.
Anyone can provide some tips on how to fight d/p thieves with shatter mesmers?
Tips are really appreciated, but duels will be more helpful. I was planning to do an event for the mesmer guild, like a practice session against thieves.
LF: Really good thief, so can anyone multiclass and play a really good thief? Preferably D/P thief. Must be really good, otherwise it wouldn’t be a challenge and we won’t learn anything right?
Goal: Don’t you feel like the generic forum tips on how to fight thieves don’t work anymore on higher MMRs? I thought about setting up practice duels against really good thieves so that we can have an idea on how to fight back.
I felt like “yes they hard counter shatter mesmers, but I would rather put up a decent fight than accepting this as a reality”
Event After I get thieves to practice with us, then I will schedule days on when it will be held!
@StickerHappy:
Is that not the same for other classes’ utilities as well? I know it is when I’m on my Mesmer/Ranger/Warrior/Engineer (my 4 most played). I could just take offensive utilities but then CC would eat me alive … though Engineer is a special case due to toolkits and toolbelt.
I fail to see how this is any different. Hence I don’t see what the hubbub is all about.
This is the same pet peeve for my mesmer (blink, decoy, port, cleanse always needed) but those utilities function very different from traps, if traps did high damage per pulse or did something unique rather than a condi bomb then I would consider it to be the same issue for other classes but when you compare it, the time you slot 2 traps, it’s not even worth it with trap’s current state.
BUT..You also gotta factor skill and the build, I was successful running trapper celestial hybrid in ToL until we got faced against more skilled teams than we are.
Just going to laugh my butt off when they get tons of improv. procs that recharge their heal (as it is now a skill type), which also isn’t interruptible.
Thief is honestly going to be so broken, it might actually be worth taking 2 if you have 2 good ones.
You don´t play thief that much, do you? We lost some very important damage-traits that we have to compensate in taking executioner. I don´t think that much people will take impro over executioner. Impro was good enough to use it instead of 5% dagger-damage, but not instaed of executioner.
Thieves always say “We lost this..lost that..We got nerfed…yada yada..” Still hasn’t lost a spot in the meta.
Taking traps doesn’t mean all 3 of your utilities are traps … why not take 2 traps and Lightning Reflexes? Perhaps taking Healing spring too. 1 stunbreak/evade/immobilize cleanse and 1 Cleanse + Regen that you can splash in for more healing if you have Sword or Greatsword.
What’s the issue?
Thats the whole thing thats wrong. 2 traps and lemme guess signet of stone or LR or SoR. Thats the only thing you can do with trap build, replace those with anything, CC is gonna eat you alive.
Mesmers are happiest and had the best designed changes
ele / engi / ranger/ mesmer got the most
Necros got obliterated and had their hopes crushed #RobertPlsFix
War got a lot too
Guardian got a good amount
Rev is yet to be available
Ranger got a TON too, but nothing OP (imo, we will have to see)
Ele got its changes in the wrong way #RobertTellKarlToFixIt
( cantrips ( tornado) should be instant, fresh air should have an icd, auras should be improved, camping should be discouraged)
Rev is a freekill, i would put them next to necro in terms of viability.
What? Freekill for a class that is not yet released? #floppingisreal
until then ill be theory crafting XD