I used to have hope but at this point it is what it is. You can only play d/p and be nerfed so many times, for so many years, before it’s time to move on.
I only play it at the moment because I am waiting for HoT to play Rev now. I truly do love thief at heart and love the game what it was, not what it is currently.
Maybe months from now, the balance team can make things better but track records leave me skeptical to say the least. It will be hard to forget the acro gut just to bring it back as a recycled asset elite spec. Like-wise though i also will remember all the intense fun WvW fights/duels ive had with the class over the years.
- “Whining gets you nowhere. Whining does not solve anything, as it is not constructive. It is destructive and helps no one, least of all you.”
- “I’ve played thief for 37 hours”
Good for you several thieves in this forum have several thousand hours on thief and are more qualified than you are to talk about its problems.
So you made a topic whining…about whining? You somehow think it will be productive… nice. Please take your uninformed self out of thief section of the forums and talk about something you are more qualified on. This would, as you say be more productive instead of telling us(through whining) we’re not allowed to “whine” about being nerfed every single balance patch since release.
Several valid thief topics are just straight up ignored regardless of tone,content, and clarity.
#ThiefStruggleIsReal
#ReRolledToRev
@PopeUrban
GW1 metas like perma SF sins with RoJ monks and Ursan spam! Things I miss the most from gw1 was more pvp mode variety, not so much it’s pve content that could be soloed with SoS rits.
All these people who are calling someone elitist for not wanting to be a non-meta build “Play how i want player” are just silly at this point. Clearly they are into playing optimally, that’s how they want to play and that happens to be meta so its a double win for them. What right does someone have to join a group with those like minded players and demand to be accommodated for?
Some people want to play to win as fast as possible to get on with their day, blues and greens don’t make something compelling to “take your time” to get to.
This is of course assuming their Raid content even allows pug style groups in the first place. For all anyone knows it could require a static group and make all of this a non-issue.
Good Challenging content will be designed around Roles within a fight there will always be a best profession for that role, players need to get over that fact quickly. It doesn’t mean you can’t do that role with another class but it does mean there is a clear best suited class for said Role.
Thats the price you pay for being bee autiful …..but yea that mini mosquito’s buzzing drives me crazy i dont know if i could handle my character making that sound lol. I think they should prolly tie it into a different sound category though like Aura’s.
1. It could be way better to be honest its a system that hopefully they fixed in HoT or future updates afterwards. Especially with talk of legendary armors and such the current system is just dated.
2.You are bothered by action based combat but seek to play 2 action based combat mmos this wont end well for you. However if you want a more forgiving class in Gw2 play a warrior.
Thief is the most punishing class for making any little mistake on and you will taste the ground more often then not if you don’t dodge. If you are dead set on playing thief but don’t like dodging you could always use Sword/Pistol and spam pistolwhip.
3. Dagger/Pistol skill 5 stand in it and skill 2 you can do this several times if you are looking directly downward at your toon with the camera and turning it as needed. Word to the wise you should play with right mouse button held down almost all the time.
4. Steve Blum, Troy baker, Matt Mercer, Jen hale,Tara Strong, and several other of the voice actors they use are some of the best and most seasoned in the industry. Their work is actually good its the lines they have to say that are cringe worthy. See house of the dead for just god awful voice acting.
The game still has problems that i can’t and wont deny but several of these things are just hurdles you have to get used to before you can move forward in gw2. It takes some time.
@Yelloweyedemon Aside from the fact reaper feels rather completed, Because the game is incredibly friendly for the casual solo player and you’re assuming that everyone in the population even cares about group-play.
Infact, I would argue most people play open world content and just group up for the fun of it because you can literally run around without traits if you wanted to in the open world.
1) Reaper- Very thematic not that I care too much about that, I am more interested in its facility of murdering multiple melee ranged foes for WvW.
2) Chronomancer- Interesting gw1 throwback with a pretty powerful mechanic and set of traits.
3) Herald- Good blend of passive/active play potential but its traits could be better.
4) Berserker- Decent Powerbuilds with Robert Gee’s BWE teaser stuff should be doable
5) Scrapper- I don’t agree with Melee weapons shouldn’t be one of the higher dps weapons, Nano-Machines son.
6) Tempest- Overloads, im over them. Warhorn to me feels kind of like an afterthought and pushing auramancer, a style i hate to play isn’t appealing to me.
7) Druid- Healing’s not my cup of tea and I am concerned how these players will scale “time limit based events”
8) Dragon-Hunter-Clunky and boring traps could have been really awesome. Xerath and Varus both can move and fire their linear nukes its really pathetic imo that Dragon hunter has to pop a squat to fire their’s.
9) Daredevil-Clunky unimaginative and traits are poorly done for a “Stealth-less spec intent” Things like palm strike or fist flurry could have been weaved into steal somehow with traits. The Dev who thinks condition removal is situational in Gw2 is sorely misinformed as its always needed/useful.
Apparently Condition removal is situational, if you’ve see the daredevil dev quote about it.
Personally i think that kind of mentality is flat out wrong and also what brings the hate and disgust for the easier tanky condi builds in the game.
Necro has always been kind of annoying though for thief. This was especially true back when you could get feared for daze stealing them, but also trigger the nightmare rune proc on top of that and enter this stun-break or die moment just for opening.
It’s pretty important to not hit them when they have spectral armors up, passives or active versions of these skills. When you do this you are giving them free shroud which will just make your life harder.
When they pop shroud and its over 25% it’s easier to just disengage and leave the fight entirely. Let them burn the shroud or force it into cd before re-opening on them.
Try to fight 2v1 vs them when available as for some reason thief is considered a +1 role. +1 being the dumbest position i can imagine for a class to have to play in a game, as if your jungler in a game like league is called a +1 position lol…
All in all asking for buffs wont happen thieves are not allowed to have nice things if all else fails i suppose you can buy the bankai unlock on the gemstore though ;P
same i always think of vergil from devil may cry lol
so basically this? there’s tech to make clones of mesmers so it could prolly be copied retooled/purposed to just be a visual thing for thief dashes.
I wouldn’t count on anything happening though since we’re thieves and we’re not allowed to have nice things guys remember that.
(Makes thief into solid snake uses p/d only)
Inconsistency in elite specialization traits
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Stinja.9612
I agree its pretty silly to have them even be called “elite specs” when the first minor is literally a useless trait that enables the core flavor of the elite spec.
The trait-line itself should be that function not a minor within it. I chalk it up to short-sighted or bad design and not thinking long-term.
Comparatively all these “new goodies” you’re getting on most of these elite specs don’t add up to losing a functional minor trait. Look within other trait-lines within your profession and compare that first minor to your elite specs minor.
Also take into consideration that when balance passes are done on your class all your “goodies” will be subject to them making that minor potentially even more underwhelming.
It’s also very silly that the new weapons are glued to the elite specs and long term will be a terrible idea. Warriors will always have the most core weapon options? That seems pretty unfair.
Also what happens once you’ve made all the Legendarys and are waiting for elite specs to use them on your main class, you now have to decide between which elite spec to play as to use your “new toys” seems like an arbitrary restriction.
Lyssa runes for yoloQing. You don’t use F2 as often as you could be as well as Jade winds Phant, but otherwise pretty solid game-play. I preferred to use Invocation over Retrib and it enables me to not have to run pack runes.
The counter play is destroy the drone.
Did you read my post at all? Destroying the drone does nothing. The BELT skill is unaffected. Detection pulse can still be cast every 20 seconds for a free 6 second reveal in a massive area.
You’re forgetting the part where they can cast it twice with the dodge trait from tools just throwing that out there.
Back when they did decent damage they were prolly worried about several tanky booned outta their minds dps rev’s slapping multiple players through doors in WvW and stuff.
I agree it feels absolutely terrible that they get destroyed and they should prolly become an entirely new classification of skills within their engine called “orbiters” but HoT is like 6 weeks away and that could take a-lot of time for such a small change as well.
It’s more important to me that in the future we get a master togo elite spec that does spirit rift rasengan’s ;P
Easiest fix imho is to remove the projectile component, keep only the animation and add an invisible moving aoe under the rev.
Exactly my thoughts. Why can’t it be a pulsing AoE, centered on you (with limit to 1 or 2 targets), that just looks like hammers?
my best guess? as a dev too, i immagine they spent a good deal of work to make an infinite projectile spinning around you. The idea is super cool to. Throw that away is harsh :-|
So here’s another suggestion, isn’t possible to make projectiles indestructible? at all?Perhaps they want a projectile block to defend against hammers. But it is making conflicts with walls. Though hammers aren’t exactly that high of dps not sure why they need to be blocked/reflected. But that might be one of the issues maybe?
They’re unblockable so no you cant reflect them destroy them maybe but the tiniest rock will take care of that for ya ;P
Lol that means you can pull off some stupid burst in that 1 skill if that’s the case. equilibrium can be fired off mid UA as well as glint’s fury facet.
You guys weren’t aware you were selecting hard mode in Gw2 by playing thief at this point?
It is super eye opening if you’ve never played other classes except thief how easy several of them are and how safe so many of their meta builds are comparatively.
It’s ultimately for me the reason why I’ll just roll Rev for HoT unless thief becomes way better than it currently is there’s no reason to keep putting in so much effort to outplay people when the other options take a fraction of the effort and skill for equal to better results.
I had this unload idea a long time ago when i thought thief was gonna get some interesting changes but they never did.
Ricochet could be brought back and be more crazy in some kind of future elite spec. One where thief actually does get rifle but people don’t wanna wait for maybes i get it.
Unload Re-work (inspired by Lucian’s ultimate from league and how fun it is to use)
Unload
Make unload conditional. If under quickness add 2 shots to every tier.
If you have 12-15 initiative when using unload you shoot 12 shots.
If you have 8-11 initiative shoot 10 shots.
If you have 5-7 initiative shoot 8 shots.
The last 2 shots apply 1 burn stack each.
SR also requires you to blow a dodge against good players to get worth out of it as well, and you currently cant dodge a pet taunt it goes through all evades with its bug.
“Reveal is short” if you don’t think 6 seconds matters in a fight I don’t know what to tell you. Maybe you’re playing against bad players or are built more tanky compared to normal zerk thieves.
Poison can be cleared reveal cannot be. In-fact Reveal can be stacked on you repeatedly until you are down/dead. Even if it is there to prevent you from “spamming backstab” it doesn’t change the fact its done poorly and that your self reveal can be chained off greatly hindering you.
At the very least it should have diminishing returns but so should plenty of other things in the game.
It’s also not always short if they put down a stealth trap or something you are looking at 30 seconds of revealed time.
They can lay this trap from stealth as well which has 0 counter play unless you saw them put it down.
If you want something with absolutely 0 counter-play that’s not a consumable, look no further to warrior’s berserker stance.
For all intents and purposes, this should be changed to gain resistance boon for X amount of time to provide counter play, but it has not and will not be changed in all likely hood.
People also like to pretend thieves are immune to stealth ganks themselves which is not the case at all.
More counters against thieves
- Cele D/D ele doesn’t need to worry about them, staff eles should be casting aoes on themselves and using their line to interrupt the evades if they’re evade spamming thieves. After all you’re the target so you prevent the thief from safely backstabbing you creating an area of denial.
- Warrior’s are usually fine against thieves they can literally delete them with a well timed rampage after some back and forth between them.
- Guardians we already explained
- Mesmer’s Mirror lets you open on them as they either bas venom or daze steal you which in turn stuns them
- Ranger can and often opens with sic’em rapid fire and the better rangers also have the pet taunt which counters all evades and will force you to de-stealth. Put several traps at their feet if they wanted or use them to stealth with trapper runes.
- Engineer has plenty of blocks cc and reveals hell they can even moa em if they really want to.
- Necro can put down lower cd marks they don’t need to get a feel of which way the thief will open on them. They are also naturally tanky and have “oh no save me traits”. They can put down the fear wall to counter evade builds
- All classes can use vamp runes to prevent the fatal burst and counter off of.
Can we PLEASE make mawdrey/princess (and release star of gratitude again as I was in the hospital when it came out) eat WAY more a day, or give an option like the karmic converter to either eat small amounts or whole stacks…and limiting to 3-6 a day is ridiculous.
I’m not sure where this goes, but I cannot find the suggestion portion. Please move this as necessary.
I have a special ascended mat consumer its called “the ground” it eats everything i give it and never complains, it never returns my favor or rewards me with anything, but it helps clear up my inventory,bank, and mule space!
On a serious note it should be painfully obvious for people who play long hours a day that 1 stack is not enough. I and several others I know have thousands and thousands of ascended mats that we will never use but Anet has taught us to hoard because remember “Silk”.
The obvious solution is to make a mastery track that you can level up your mastery “usage” of these items that enables you to feed it more per day.
I agree with BlackDevil. However dwarf rite is potentially op. If you have enough accumulated protection with Glint, plus Jalis 20% damage reduction upkeep, then you can reach almost 100% damage reduction under dwarf rite.
I still need to test it, because it’s strange that you get 0 damage. I don’t think it’s going to work this way.
It’s the first thing I’ll test in BW3.
Dont forget frost aura that’s another 10% though you wont be able to have all these things on you forever. The 5seconds you have rite of the Great D on could make a difference in the total outcome. Even though i’ll personally be using shiro/glint.
There being more counter play to stealth could certainly be used to get reduced cool downs on some utilities that are not very competitive.
Lets be honest as 2 thieves to one another, we both know we’re not allowed to have nice things lol.
- Roll for Ini should be way shorter in cd but most likely wont be
- SR will be useless against glint Revs, which will be essentially almost every single Rev.
- Wont change the fact that Reveal is poorly designed and invalidates entire trait-lines which isn’t counter play. It’s more like if we were playing rock,paper,scissors and someone came along and cut our hands off. They proceed to say “Hey you can still play just work around the whole lack of hands thing!”
- Smoke-screen could use the Revenant Tech to glue it to your thief to make it more appealing but again, it prolly wont be.
- Venoms have always needed a stun break on one of them to be actually viable in solo-full venom builds otherwise you need to cover it with stealth or trying to be “tanky” which isn’t feasible in reality on a thief.
Counter play has existed for stealth for a long time players just chose to panic, complain or pretend it doesn’t exist.
If someone is stealth you know they’re either going to open up on you or run away.
You don’t at this point stop attacking, but start planning how to react place AoEs traps w.e you got to plan for their next move.
If you’re a guardian you can literally throw binding blade out and track them with it but most people aren’t even aware of things like that because they never took the time to learn. But I’ve gone far enough off topic at this point.
There was me thinking steal and initiative were a thiefs core mechanics.
So if this is the case why are 3 traits that modify dodges for daredevil considered a new mechanic? Core mechanics aren’t just a resource and f1 it is the entire kit of a class and how it functions.
Stealth is important on several weapon sets for thief you cant access backstab or any other “stealth skill” without it.
Honestly ask yourself why you even have an attack skill from stealth if its not part of the “Core design” of the class, when no other classes have this ability?
Better solution is to remove this revealed for everyone in the first place and replace it with a new “status” Exposed. It would also enable shadow arts to not be invalidated by a single status that can be chained on you with 0 diminishing returns.
This new status would let you stealth still but they could see you and you could literally steal the ! from metal gear as an icon for it.
See Eve’s stealth from league of legends to get a better idea of what the de-buff would do.
If you’re being chased by a big group stopping to shield isn’t going to save the day unless said group is absolutely terrible.
Guardians not only have a worse shield but also got dragon hunter a spec equally as bad as daredevil, Kappa. Not that our basis on making Revenant’s shield better should be tied to guardians er…. attempted use of a shield.
@FLiP Yes not enough credit with our terrible condition removal and the likely hood that in pvp we will be poisoned because that’s what good players would do.
Not to mention its a block and so other Revenants will be able to shiro+staff 5 you out of the skill anyway. Lets add un-blockable Necro marks into the mix shall we? There are tons of things that make this a bad skill when you cannot move.
The ability to move is everything in GW2 that’s game-play 101.
Sword offhand is superior in this regard because you can get to a place to Line of sight your foe. You won’t/don’t have to be a sitting duck waiting to get blown up.
Brace yourselves, Alacrity is coming \o/
IMO, focus is closer to what the shield should be…
Why does my focus provide more protection / survivability than my shield? lol
Magic > Metal ;P
Wtb dual shields and roll around with them like armored armadillo from megaman x kappa.
The real question is can you switch to staff or hammer ect and get 2 new sigils mid cast of sword 3 because at that point you could get air/fire procs with the first set and use a weapon swap of hydro+leech to spike as well.
Just use sword+defender runes and don’t waste your time using shield it’s that easy. Mobility is huge in every and all games especially action ones this is fairly obvious.
After playing closed beta Gigantic and waiting for 3 years for gw2 to get it right, i know where I’ll take my pvp more serious in a game at this point.
I can’t honestly name a single skill in guild-wars 2 that is satisfying that roots you for pvp purposes. I can however name how several skills once their silly roots were removed became much better. Engineer comes to mind whirling wrath ect.
But back to the defender runes, You’ll get an insane heal for something as basic as aegis block or just using your sword to block and have even more regen.
Most of the sales really weren’t all that special to be honest with you Juice, bots are always hard to deal with and it’s easier less expensive to just restrict all their usual means.
F2p is to get you in the door give you the base game to play and experience, but ultimately they’ll obviously want you to buy the expansion which you did.
Your gems would arrive instantly if the payment processed however it is likely that it is still being cleared which fault can be on several parties end.
All this being said it could lighten up the restrictions in level based increments and time played as well as other hidden requirements that only players would be obtaining not bots.
You guys knows vault’s animation is different for each race right? Norn already some the spinning staff mid air for flare with it. I agree the rest of the recycled bland animations could use the pick me ups though.
You’ll be fine with scholar still in that case
Pack/vamp is what i see mostly if youre a ganker for a group in wvw scholar can work still.
I’m not even someone who uses or cares about racials at all, but I think its pretty shady and immoral to sell you mist-fire wolf the first go around and now sell you a class you cant even use it on. Will the next expansion have skins that Revenant and other classes cant wear because it’s not “Pure” or “thematic”?
Seems pretty silly and its a shame.
If Infiltrator’s Strike were to be made into a Leap Finisher, would Sword/Pistol become worth choosing for sPvP?
Pistol Whip may be a lot easier to pull off from stealth.
If you are having trouble landing your pwhip take the longer stun sigil+immob venom with panic strike. pop immob venom into steal+pwhip
Evades are silly and countered by guardians lines and circles without stab just wait if those ever make a re-appearance.
If you look straight down with your camera you can get Heartseekers off in your powders faster/easier.
pistol 4 is for perplexity hybrid/condi daredevils in the future spamming headshot for 3 stacks of torment and 2k pulmonary pokes+perplexity proc
Accessing stealth doesn’t even matter with engineer lock-on and every Revenant and their mother will run glint. Couple that with reveal traps in wvw and it just gets pathetic.
Even if you love thief most people hate/despise them for legitimately no good reason. If i were new today without experiencing how thief was 3 years back, I would re-roll immediately to mesmer,ele, or revenant save myself the waste of time/effort/heartache.
Thief never gets any love and if it does its taken away and repackaged as “an elite spec”
A roll back with an optional roll in afterwards would be nice—like an inverse version of that one Mesmer skill.
Copy paste ranger sword 2 tada
- “I’ve seen a lot of feedback on how Escapist’s Absolution should be baseline. It is the case that we believe this trait is powerful enough that it should be a choice in the trait line between damage, survivability and utility, rather than just a given. Driven Fortitude’s healing allows for usefulness in all modes where you take damage, where EA’s condition removal is situationally useful in a combat scenario.”
Speaks volumes to how out of touch with the game you are when it comes to thief. Have you ever even played it outside of your Dev vs Dev fights you talk about on stream? These thoughts come to mind immediately reading your post about Condition removal.
It is almost as bad as what Roy said about engineer and their condition removal in comparison with Revenant, but at least in his defense that class isn’t all a one trick pony beaten to death by the nerf bat over 3 years.
Condition removal is always useful not just in certain situations. People not taking it will be considered Bad thieves, or be using shadow arts defeating the purpose of a stealth-less play-style……Jesus…this spec will remain terrible.
It will be funny if these same people try to play wildstar when its F2P stealth+tether mine xD RELEASE THE PANIC
Also @Maugetarr fine fine Ran over instead of 1 shot :P
Revenant, after 3 years 5k hours on thief im tired of having to play harder and better than others having a single mistake be GG.
Most of those players have never played a thief in their lives and don’t understand how it works or how to beat it. Instead they hate you, complain about you, and you receive a steady stream of nerfs. The most recent being acro ricochet ect. People are still crying about the signet/might back stab build which is garbage in actual play.
A-lot of players in Gw2 are just simply not good and react very slowly when ganked. They panic and have no game plan or just give up immediately and think thief is somehow un-killable. Several people don’t even try to auto or setup skills to detect or counter play a stealthed thief.
Thief in HoT will be even more miserable with all these classes getting “reveals” that actually de-stealth you and apply the reveal debuff on top of it.
I personally always found the idea of a debuff that can negate an entire traitlines worth of choices poor and pathetic in terms of design, but that is what it is.
Meanwhile your Mesmer counter parts can delete your character in about 2-3 button presses or just stay stealth for an entire fight spamming phantasms in places like WvW but they are “just fine”.
Roll a Rev before its too late so you can maintain your hated status(Sword 3 is op wah wah q q )!
TL:DR Mug used to crit, sword 2 used to stun break, and you used to be able to win fights by mashing 2. None of that is there anymore but a single warrior GS spin can one shot you, Kappa.
2 of the 3 GMs increase damage in the damage trait-line and then you have this silly trait that’s not needed.
Mallyx and corruption trait line eats the boon to begin with which makes removing stacks a waste of your time. In PvE staff 5 already rekts the break bar.
I would much rather have damage on interrupts or some better trait than this garbage one.
You can invite them to your party just use the UI triangle while you have site. This is of course if they are not in a party to begin with.
Otherwise you have several options attempt to invite and way-point their name will show up.
Block them and find their name to whisper them ect. Just don’t be doing any harassment stuff with this or you’ll potentially pay for it.
Usually jumping with balloons or other non dangerous bundles or even in some tonics means chances are that player is friendly, though not always.
Thank God i didn’t waste my time and cash on Bolt…S/D thief dead in HoT
Fear not you can still make bolt as it can be used on Revenant the clearly better than thief in every-way class now lol.
Pretty sure you were fighting bad players if you were beating reapers with just weakness spam. After looking at your montage in another topic i’m assuming you’re on JadeQ. As a YB roamer i can confirm we have plenty of bad players \o/
Daredevil is a no go for me I’ll hang up the thief coat and play Rev for HoT. Hopefully another future thief elite spec is more appealing and not made up of re-used assets.
What mode were you mostly playing OP if i can ask?
For me, I don’t care for the new vengeful hammers at all, especially from a pvp standpoint. Why would i want to take several retal ticks for meager to nonexistent heals.
Them being destroyed by just basic game-play is absolutely annoying bordering on unacceptable from a design stand-point, and it feels like they are slightly closer to my toon then last beta weekend but i am not 100% on it.
Forced engage is still really bad on a-lot of levels. To break the bar Staff 5 is your best friend and will also give you and your allies some additional healing if you are super into the tanky role sort of thing.
All in all i don’t personally see myself really ever using jalis and ventari unless the content absolutely demands it.
The biggest problem with UA is that there’s another skilled which is also UA on the same class! Unyielding anguish and Unrelenting assault!
But no seriously it’s not hard to beat a sword Revenant. They have very bad condition removal without ventari and are essentially designed to “endure them” with mallyx.
If you are fighting one and they are shiro/glint it shouldn’t be too difficult condi them to death.
Direct ways to stop sword 3
- Guardian lines and circles
- Ele staff Lines
- Go stealth it ends immediately
- Blind them
- Interrupt the cast, Instead of taking the time to write up it’s OP posts go role a Revenant beta toon of each race and see what their wind up animation for sword 3 is save yourself the learning curve early on.
- Necro fear wall
- Several block skills
- Stand next to a wall or other terrain which will end the skill
- Ranger Pet taunt goes through evades have your pet taunt it.
- Do not slow them the animation lasts twice as long.
- Binding blade them ahead of time pull them out of it during the animation.
- Stay 500 range or further away from the Revenant if they have axe look for the throw to avoid it. If they have Shiro it will be a phase into sword 3.
- If you’re used to running away in WvW, expect to be chased down by a Rev using Phase sword 3 combos. Augment your build to actually be able to win a fight instead of running away.
- Portal will not save you from it as mesmer but it will let you drag the Revenant out of the fight.
Quickness reduces total time of the evade effects and distance moved during the GM dodges.
Slow Makes them go twice as far as well. Its because most of this elite spec is made up of re-used assets it seems. Thus you have several modified versions of “attacks that evade” for dodges. I’ve already made the move to Revenant well worth it.