Found a highlight of the first sweet spot http://www.twitch.tv/phenomatron/v/7974254 17 seconds in for visual aid. Ignore den unless you want to hear some airplane noises from a grown man.
You would have to be a pretty bad thief or casual pve only player to think staff has a serious place for thief in its current design. DullDevil builds will be more of the same, D/P, maybe S/P as well. Staff like many of the other new weapons, look terrible for damage.
Go ahead and continue to tell the OP he needs to actually play it, but its pretty obvious to several thieves what the builds will be. OP spots a problem several of you are incapable of seeing without tangible first-hand game-play but he’s not wrong.
Practice>Theory you don’t even know if you’ll need tanks and what not until we have more info. For all anyone knows you could beat these raid fights in zerker still if you can dodge hence a waste of time. You made a raid topic with information that seems to have been pulled out of no where.
We also don’t know if we’ll get new stat combos in HoT i personally expect we would which also opens up options. Hence too early to Theory anything still.
Except with quickness i bet it will go half the distance because they’re “attacks” and given anet track records it will prolly be that way because it wasn’t thoroughly tested. Flanking strikes n all.
I wouldn’t be shocked if with slow you go twice as far with dash either. I still dislike the blatantly re-used assets thrown together to make daredevil.
No skin off my back all in all, since I’ll be main-ing a Rev and wont have to worry about thief life anymore but disappointing all the same.
All 3 dodges are re-used assets. Lotus is Death blossom,Dash is Warrior Rush, and Bound is that staff skill Vault from what i can tell. It feels like a major bummer to have thief feel so lackluster in the animation.
This is also terrible game-play wise, because how do you know as someone fighting the thief, what you’re trying to dodge. Is it a vault? Is it a bound? 1 hits significantly harder than the other from what I can see.
If you play WvW and dont mind being cheesy/playing easy builds condi thief is aidstastic. You’ll want mostly dire gear for this unless HoT brings new combos. I would just hold out honestly its your safest best bet.
Way too early to be trying to figure out this stuff the class isn’t even officially “completed”
It’s slightly longer than inspiring reinforcement for 1 of the double hits dont remember if you can do it in 2 places.
They do a super secret Rev only dance similar to http://i.imgur.com/jLCFPAt.gif
Over 5000 hours on my thief
I feel you Aiki i’m just re-rolling to Rev since daredevil looks incredibly boring man. Even if i used it i wouldn’t take the staff. Potentially Perma-weakness is some cheesy game-play too power V power.
Why bother dealing with any of the typical thief life problems when you can just re-roll to a better class at this point.
All of you people who are buying into this “evade hype” seem to be forgetting about guardian circles/lines and ele lines or are just pvers.
Cant Cancel Facets
:(
You already gain resistance base-line with pain absorption you gain even more with the trait on.
Part of me says these kind of traits should work with all elites regardless of current legend stance to give them more desirability/viability in other builds and free up these you must take this trait-line with this legend situations.
At the very least Resistance should pulse while in embrace the dark to make the trait less mandatory.
The other options up against demonic defiance are very crappy in all honesty. They will almost never see usage so they either need to be buffed/reworked or demonic has to be base.
inb4 it ends up being garbage, they never give us thieves nice toys.
I disagree with condi transfer on healing skill. It breaks a bit synergy with Mallyx and in the end its not all that useful either. I rather have it on impossible odds so i can decide when i want to keep or transfer them. After all come on, it has 10 energy activate cost and drains 10energy/sec, it wouldnt be overpowered if it could transfer condi.
The reason i suggested this is because i dont want to be forced into use mallyx to deal with conditions. The Rev has very little flexibility to it and that means months after launch it will be a very stale boring class.
It actually does not break any synergy with mallyx because you can pull off interesting combos like shiro heal legend swap to mallyx unyielding anguish-unrelenting assault.
You would in that combo apply torment and cripple to your foe. Enduring conditions is a nice idea but super impractical in the world of Cele signet necro.
Using both shiro and mallyx for pvp should be a choice. The last thing i want is another D/D ele situation where you have other weapons and options but they are not viable/desirable.
4k initial heal 500 per dagger transfer a condition per dagger ta-da
Unless some massive changes occur between now and release i dont think youll ever see a pve build of any kind without shiro in it. that level of quickness is a big deal for both power and condi builds.
Shiro/Glint for pve though this looks like it could be alot of fun for high risk wvw burst builds. Can roam around with group-wide perma protection until its time to fight.
Shiro/Mallyx for spvp
Glint/Mallyx could be interesting with some sinister/hybrid builds.
Glint/Ventari for the dumpster unless we’re given some solid hard content that needs that level of healing. (or if you like playing pvp bunker builds yuck)
Ah yes the only heal in the game that can be blinded,blocked,evaded,destroyed,reflected, kited, stealth-ed out, and invulned. Out of fairness I am not counting interrupted,fear spam, and uncrossable lines preventing you from using it.
It would be soo op to have an actual usable heal in arguably the best Revenant legend kit. The very foundations of the game would crumble… seriously if you think in actual pvp youll get alot of worth out of enchanted daggers you’re lying to yourself. Hell even pve most mordrem fights you seem to have quite a bit of poison being thrown around.
It will always be 100% best case scenario to precast the skill regardless of damage and duration in its current iteration.
Now for the people who will tout you just don’t understand! You just gotta try it and believe mannnn.
Here’s some math for a likely pvp situation with competent players. You’re fighting 2v2 you need to heal. You will most likely be poisoned which is -33% right there starting the initial heal at about 1300 and you will have to attack to heal which means 2 attacks occur.(1 auto/1 dagger) Sword 3 is an evade just use that during the heal! Doesn’t help your lack of instant stability with guardian/ele lines/circles you will be bumped out of the skill.
This means 2 retal procs assuming you only hit 1 person and the dagger actually gets to hit the target. 33% of 800 is 264 you now heal 536 base per dagger factor in the retal which we’re being generous saying they have very low power and leaving it at 200. you heal 136 a dagger. We’re not even going to factor in the plethora of other stuff going on confusion,burns,bleeds ect because Shiro himself will turn over in his grave.
TL:DR By the power of basic math…..The heal is bad.
PS: It is still very visible ugly and the daggers don’t look anything like daggers. A point i’d like to drive home.
To be honest you will always precast shiro heal regardless of its duration in game-play because its initial heal is so poor its not worth counting on it in a fight, and is better used mitigating the initial few trades with an opponent while increasing your opening burst.
If you are poisoned it will heal you for practically nothing anyway in almost every situation you are better off legend swapping to another legend to receive an actual heal over counting on shiro.
The damage per dagger could be significantly lowered to normal life steal ticks 300ish per each dagger and the initial heal could be brought up to actual usable levels but the skill would lose its thematic shironess.
As a side note the skills art looks horrible and i really hope when wielding bolt those flying cucumbers turn into mini bolts.
(edited by Stinja.9612)
Thieves as a profession are meant to reset and come back when conditions are better suited. However, most of these AoE burns have lower cooldowns than we do.
So, quite simply, thieves need more condi removal, both active and passive traited.Also, I’m not misremembering things and GW1 had a skill that gave condition removal on critical hit, right?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Remedy you prolly were combining this with http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Way_of_Perfection in your memory.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Signet_of_Malice was another condi removal though if i recall the usual play was to blow them up before they could do anything and get out of there.
Dragon hunter sucked Daredevil or w.e it’s called will suck. Thief has been nerfed essentially every single patch since release. Remember when acro was a good trait-line? me too.Mug critting sword 2 stun breaks yea those too.
After 3 years if you think thief is going to get any better you’re just lying to yourself at this point. I’d like to be proven wrong i really would but i’m not gonna pretend like w.e thief gets is going to change everything lol.
Really depends how it functions and what the traits for glint are.
Sword 3 sounded and looked cool but it wasnt very impressive and still needed changes.
If there’s any damage modifiers in that trait line you will take it 100% of the time. As for the facet I would still have to see it in action before i made the call.
The idea potentially of perma protection though isnt too shabby in group settings.
Glider Deploy Happens with sword 3 if you jump and use it as well. Sword 3 also ends if your target stealths found that out dueling thieves.
Have to agree binding weapon swapping to legend swapping is not only terrible but just a dumb idea im personally tired of hearing about.
If you want to weapon swap when you Legend-swap do it yourself, stop being lazy and potentially trying to ruin it for those who swap when they need to.
Well using dodge rolling with energy/energy on swaps and riposting shadows lets you dodge like 12 times from 100% resource. You could prolly go even higher with a Runeset that gives you endurance back as well. Thing is its not practical and you will likely never see this happen in actual play.
Also Revenant skills do have cool downs, they are not entirely energy based. They use both Resource and Energy @Pride so i don’t know what you were referring to.
P-whip is an evade stun and good damage
Warrior Gs is an evade mobility skill and good damage
Blurred Frenzy is an evade with good damage
Ranger GS auto attacks have an evade built into it while on the same weapon they have swoop a mobility double leap finisher evade skill.
I dont really see what the problem is why people would be against this to me it seems like they are either ill informed, or have not actually tried playing with this skill in pvp against good players.
Honestly i was reading some other post and it sounds like Roy wants to make legend swapping 10 seconds all the time combat or not, which sounds terrible to me but w.e.
If that is coming, and skills and utilities will continue to use energy, you should always rest at 100% resource like Thief does. It was supposed to have Gw1 vibes to it with these up keeps ect.
I dont recall in the 7 years I played gw1 any class starting with 50% energy because they put mending on their bar.
At the point you legend swap you go back to 50 and it slowly creeps upward or down depending on what you’re doing. Also it feels so weird having 0 way to gain energy except time or swap.
There’s a difference between being negative and actually playing several hours with it Kidel not everyone who has an opinion is somehow being negative.
Please provide actual constructive information within your posts instead of trying to personally single out mine.
Please explain to me how a positive manner will make this lack luster heal skill better as it has more than often forced me to swap to another legend to gain an actual heal in fights.
Sadly he has the Worst heal in the game. 1.5k with projectiles that are limited in too many ways. The only heal that can be blinded,blocked,evaded,reflected,destroyed, obstructed, Line of sighted ect. So if he wants to be my bro he better step up his craptastic heal.
It should be an evade for the whole skill period. Animation lock with pathetic damage that will bounce between pets <.<.
The might is point-less especially since you can cancel jade winds over and over to build 20+ might with a single trait. It will also bait out dodges from people if they know what to dodge on a Rev.
Depends at which point this skill eats your energy. If it’s immediate than it will be an easy dodge however if you can cancel it you could easily bait dodges out of players with a tell this big.
Out of combat you can swap legends every 1 second, or what ever it is. You use it twice, double swap, and keep going, rinse and repeat… Resets you to 50 energy every time.
That is, of course, unless they change how swapping OOC works due to the weapon swap change.
I assume they would change it, otherwise we already have the spam problem you refer to in existence with RShadows rather than Phase Traversal, but it also means our Revenant players will be traveling backwards … 0.0
Either way I really hope the devs are working on rev mobility
Rofl I already mentioned that somewhere, I’m just going to be traveling backwards forever because it’s the only successful mobility Revenant has OOC. :P
9 seconds of superspeed every 10 seconds is better.
9 second of super speed every 10 seconds is just 90% uptime swiftness. Spamming instant backwards teleports and swapping and teleporting more is most definitely faster…
Super speed out of combat is 133% speed just like swiftness, not 200% speed.
It’ll be like a Cosmo Speed run of OoT Lol maybe shiro will make the Link sounds.
Yea it was CoE however Arena-net already knew about UA as in the Wyvern fight unyielding doesn’t move him. I think it’s because we don’t have that break bar thing yet but the Wyvern did.
Also +1 for making UA much more reliable and user friendly.
It was a real pain in spvp using it only to have someone bounce around you or still be able to stomp while they bounce around all over the place lol.
The only rune-sets i plan to use on my rev are perplexity,torment,nightmare for conditions. For power builds in pve i would only run Scholar still no reason not to. For WvW/Spvp It’s a mix up of Pack,Vamp or Lyssa.
Citadel runes are garbage and should never be used. Rage is a maybe, though in group play you should have perma fury anyway.
And if healing ever became truly viable or needed I’d use Monk.
This is of course if HoT doesnt bring a bunch of new rune sets and such that trump any of the listed ones.
Why don’t you wait till you actually have a chance to use the skill before you think its under powered… You realize its a huge AoE stun that does damage, an Earth Shaker on demand that actually hurts…that you could cast twice than legend swap into mallyx or jalis and CC again and that’s without even counting weapon skills.
Gotta keep the troll-age localized on a small level otherwise I’ll have to walk through LA nude while my mini Liadri says
On another note, i was also able to move the Husk and the destroyer. The husk became brutal AoEing everywhere and the golem bombs walking into unyielding anguish almost always landed on me and exploded.
Looking at Shiro you can just run around with that out of combat legend swapping as others have said. You could in theory be using the teleport on walls ambient creatures oak-hearts ect unless it suffers from no valid path to happiness.
You could also use Traveler or Air runes. Ventari Heal’s skill essentially means you have on cool down “On Heal Rune benefits”
You can also Drop inspiring reinforcement, double hammer blast→swap potentially to mace 3 in it for some insane duration of swiftness close to a minute if my maths right.
So no Rev OoC movement isn’t exactly that terrible.
Was going through the footage to see if there were any highlights i wanted, and i discovered my ultimate Revenant purpose. To create challenging content for my own party from old content BEHOLD.
http://www.twitch.tv/phenomatron/v/7832439
No Class can match Rev in this regard.
When i read the original description I always figured Rev was going to pull utility skills from various legends, maybe signature monster moves they had in gw1 ect.
Ideally the elite skill was going to be a Dervish Form-like move that lets you become the actual legend but work more like an engineer kits fused with gw1 enchantments.
What I feel we actually have is a thematic class that barely delivers on quite a few ends. I know its beta and not complete but for a marketing sake Rev should prolly have been OP vs UP when show casing it for sales purposes.
I also find it so very odd that each legend has “Skill Types” but the only trait-line that provides any bonus at all to actual legend skills is Corruption giving resistance on skill use.
All in all this class really gives off the impression it was built on the old trait system so heavily and it can no longer stand up to the new Specs core classes are rocking. (Lack of condi boon duration ect)
No i am literally just saying give them basic weapon swapping no strings attached like several classes already have and not tied to legends…which would be a worse option over the basic weapon swap function. They would only have 2 sets of weapons not 4
I’d just like to bring into the equation that your down skill 1 as Rev hits harder than mace let that simmer lol
-1 Just add normal weapon swapping. Having it tied to a legend brings a whole bunch of annoying situations that could be easily avoided with a basic swap.
Speculation+Data-mining says shiro could be a legend. If he is a legend that does have some epic dps I wouldn’t want to only be able to use 1 of my 2 weapons with it because of this poor system.
I like the idea of the class… it needs weapon swapping for starters to improve it. The damage is real poor and so far there’s 1 trait that gives damage modifiers based on self condition counts.
This is not really ideal in group play, my teammates are never going to let condi’s just sit on me and that’s not even counting light field whirl cleansing bolts occasionally being thrown around.
I would suggest adding a stacking buff based on when you receive conditions which enhances your condition and direct damage per stack.
Invocation feels like a mandatory line for any decent pvp build which means you’ll take that and what ever other 2 legend trait lines you’re using. Inspiring reinforcement takes far too long to gain stability from it in the middle of actual fights. Elites feel too unrewarding, you give up too much to use most of them.
To those who are defending how lackluster Rev feels at the moment with just simply “It’s Beta”… please keep in mind this is not an open beta. People have already fully Prepaid 50-100 dollars for this class,everything else in HoT, and beta access. So even if its beta there will be salt.
All this tasty over-reaction i love me some volatile MMO crowd rage. Relax people no one has played with these yet and made the meta builds, but everyone is just venting about their niche traits being cut.
Keep in mind that whenever HoT comes out the meta will change again even if all of these get rebalanced.
Warrior as i read it means there’s a global cool down for which ever tier of adren skill you used. So one couldnt get 3 bars dump flurry or earth shaker and than pop signet for a 3 bar eviscerate.
Are you afraid of Greenpeace?
I got a cantha thread joke reference :’)
On Topic – Yeah, I am also thinking it is missing a backpiece dedicated to Melandru, and one for Kormir too. (Stop crying about her useless on gw1, she is sitting at a throne god, she deserve the attention of a god).
Yes so she can steal my godly power and potentially my gems now all these years later. I would much rather have Abby dancing with a disco-ball as a back piece than kormir.
First of all people the Revenant is not meant to be a major damage dealer. It’s a tank and therefore does low damage like a tank does. That’s why they are full celestial. Get your heads out of the stupid meta crap and think.
Everyone was full celestial in the beta. Everyone.
This is a thread about the Revenant not other classes.
Yeah, but you’re saying they’re Full Celestial because they’re tank. But that’s justnonsense because EVERYONE was full celestial. The issues here have less to do with meta-anything and more to do with the skill options you had on hand. You’ve got a Legend whose skills deal in transferring conditions and applying Resistance in a map where you aren’t really taking any much conditions on. Deals Torment and Confustion but a good amount of your enemies don’t even move and attack slowly. Almost everyone stayed in Jalis Stance since it was more useful. Lightning Field, Area Swiftness, Stability, Weakness, SPINNING HAMMERS etc.
There’s a trait that said gain 50% Crit Chance while in Fury. I wanted to try out, but there was no way to actually gain Fury with the skills I had.
Read a bit more, the trait doesn’t give you 50% crit chance, fury is 50% more beneficial (meaning you gain an extra 10% crit chance from fury, totalling at 30% from fury, instead of the base 20%).
This is incorrect it is 50% crit chance from the fury boon in total not 30% the wording is just poorly done.
(edited by Stinja.9612)
This is my 2nd time getting my hands on the Rev in terms of beta experiences.
Rev feels like it will shine for Spvp but be the new necro of PvE unwanted/un-needed unless something we haven’t seen is god tier op.
I also feel there’s a-lot of down time and some of the casts are just way too long. Some of this could be eliminated by having weapon swapping.
I am sure people will continue to bring up the moronic Oh but eles Oh but engineers do it just fine, but we’re not talking about those classes.(Rev doesn’t and wont have kits or conjure weapons obviously things that fill that gap of weapon swapping).
It’s oh so fun having melee only options and having to leave the battle to exit combat if i want a ranged option. I have to leave combat even though half of my skills will self condition me which will keep me in combat with no way to remove them. This in itself feels like a short-sighted design choice.
Another Gripe was moving skills in their slots also moves the skills for other legend this is very frustrating for people with unique bind setups.
TL:DR More impressed with the core class overhauls than Revenant currently and i think it’s a shame.
I wish the skin had a custom sound of a chain extending during attacking also wish the animation was more pronounced as is i cant in good faith recommend it to friends to pick up this skin.
D/p ends up playing better and is more safe to use due to random blocks,dodges,evade skills,blind, random aegis thrown out. It’s over all a better set of skills in most situations the dual skill is significantly better than death blossom and faster.
D/D works in WvW because you have plenty of safe targets to stealth off of, a shorter reveal, and no time limit in which to conduct your business.
Taking a trap means not taking a different utility. You’re most likely overreacting.
Drop smite condition,Take Smiter’s boon trait take the trap. Still wouldn’t stop us from playing an acro build, but it certainly is annoying to have SA be almost entirely stealth based still with a revamp.