Guild Wars 2

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Sorry – there are no factions in GW2 and it doesn’t follow lore. Now if we were in Cantha, that would be different.

The OP makes no sense, other than pushing Tier 1 to be even more unrepresentative of the other servers in this game.

Well that lore breaking eotm seems to not have all the issues that wvw can’t shake off…

I’m looking at wvw as a whole.

Wait EotM doesn’t have the unbalanced matches now? When did they change that? From my admittedly limited play time in that mode the only issue that it doesn’t have is off hours scoring.

Let’s talk about the suggestion…

“Put more maps in play.

Divide out the servers into 3 sides.

Adjust individual servers weekly as needed to balance faster.

Reevaluate things after a trial period."

Offair.2563:

You want factions; go to EOTM. Every single week you come up with this silly idea and every single week the same people tell you why its a bad idea.

I admire your persistance but please, theres a time you have to stop.

There are continuous issues with the old and linking models. Every page you will find complaints. Linking isobviously not working out to be the best option so we need to be able to experiment.

This suggestion is for a trail period with more maps in play to see how well it works, then can be voted out if need be.

Darkside.7182:

SoftLight.2175:

you are my new hero Darkside.7182 can you pls teach me how to play?

of course i can teach you softlight. First, put back your staff into your bag and change your HoT pets to wolf and hound or whatever you want. arm yourself with shortbow and axe-torch or sword-torch. make practice with your new skillful condi-trapper ranger.

But i guess you cant.. You keep staying on staff 1 and wait-watch your pets for killing. This is more suits you.

I think you should join the lightside.

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but these are my impressions…

Ultra super stacked BG has not been pushing hard over the past month or so it seems.

TC was very full, lots of overtime pushing, then they barely squeaked by a not trying hard BG.

New match up with not trying hard ultra super stacked BG vs a newly locked trying hard TC vs very full not locked DB and medium full IoJ…

Im sure there were a number of transfers to DB because they are still wide open for newcomers (not complaining because that’s how we do it to bypass as much mess as possible), coupled with a very inspired medium padded IoJ ready for war.

I had already known the outcome of these matches right on reset, and I’m sure outcomes and messes like these are what all servers face.

Something needs to change because we can’t have all this funk going on with wvw.

Edit- What makes this worse is that 2 months was chosen for linking instead of 1, and after a week of trying players are going to give up due to motivation loss with being outnumbered.

Crapgame.6519:

Not going to mince words but we both know that isn’t true. The only difference between a T1 and below are the numbers. Has nothing to do with playing to win. Purely a numbers game and wall clock.

Look at DH/EB for one example in their 2 v 3 v 4 paring for the past few weeks. You mean DH/EB are losing because they don’t play to win? Or maybe it is just that they can’t field equal numbers…

Arena net, please come here and correct me if I’m wrong.

Either CG can see future posts and is replying preemptively or (s)he got the wrong thread.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Swagger.1459:

Druid brought very little in terms of quality team healing support (any team size healing besides the self sustaining druid and pet team variety…) because it’s an overall poor design for movement based combat, not reliable healing, clunky to use and more fit for pve encounters

I agree fully with what you say here. Druids DO have the power to heal ppl, but because of the design of skills, and #1 being the real culprit here, it’s clunky as hell.

A rework of #1 alone could open up druid healing to actually be viable in fast moving combat.

Yes, and fixing up CA alone would give us another role to play and allow this profession to contribute to teams better.

Fluffball.8307:

Swagger.1459:

Do rangers have great toolsets for commanding and leading havoc groups compared to other professions?

Profession is pretty irrelevant for commanding since most people use nomad’s, but druid can plop waterfields all over the place which is always nice. I think a typical commander build would carry 3 waterfields on short CD, but I don’t really mess with zerg stuff.

For havoc, druids have the most access to CC in the game, which pairs really well with things like berserker eles or really any bursty class. And then druids bring pretty much every kind of small group support you could want, and depending on what build you’re using can do some 1-hit kills with short CDs while still being really tanky. A lot of posters have used a druid or ranger in the past as the “tank” which draws in a horde of unorganized solo players, and then 4 stealthed mesmers obliterate them while the druid does fairly big damage but is nigh unkillable. There is a legendary rank PvPer that posts here often videos of his pets hitting for like 25k AoE, and then add in maul, all while being tanky gear with lots of evades. That’s enough to lure in a small crowd of solo zergers and kill them all very quickly.

There is a druid that plays on yak’s bend that exclusively camps the sentry just to the west of red keep and just trolls dozens and dozens of players into killing themselves against a condi druid. Ya, you’re never, ever going to kill a condi druid. It’s amazing the amount of time people waste on him. Every now and then I see him play with some other roamers and the slaughter is just staggering. It’s effectively a PUG zerg worth of players being tied up by a condi druid and some friends. Totally troll, but people are single minded. A better location is directly out the outer wall gate at blue keep, and that is a truly impactful spot for organized roamers and a place the superior CC of druid really kills people. That really shuts down zerg reinforcements because most people use that gate.

I’ve long maintained rangers and now druids are either the best roaming class, or at least top 3 depending on how the power shifts. Rangers, mesmers, thieves, and revenants all sort of shuffle around the top spots. The exact ranking isn’t important.

A lot of the time I write in general terms, and that’s how I started commenting in this thread. The question asked was about viability of Rangers in wvw compared to other professions.

I’m not saying rangers are not capable of doing “things”, what I’ve been saying is that the “self sustaining roamer ranger” is the best and most notible role we have. Other professions are capable of brining better “stuff” and playable roles (roles as in dps, support, tanking…) to the table comparatively.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

“This idea doesn’t fix anything, it just drives away people that play for server loyalty”… So you oppose the 3 faction idea that pools players from servers and used the above in quotes as one counter point, but yet you support and idea of mass scale server hopping and mixing of players…

Being able to tier hop at will for fun and variety doesn’t forcefully separate anyone from their servers. There are players that love defending their home bl, they take pride in it, they still get to do this.

you don’t lose the ability to run with server peeps in the faction model I suggested so your point is moot

Swagger.1459:

More balanced populations must be first or all else fails. Nobody gives a hoot about “variety” when they are outnumbered… Lack of “variety” doesn’t cause people to log in frustration, its getting blown out. “Variety” won’t change the fact that your side is down 50-100k and facing twice your numbers…

Honestly, you don’t seem to have a deeper understanding of rvr gameplay, what state wvw is in and what we have to work with…

You don’t have a deeper understanding of human nature. If people get bored of something they find something else to do.
My main account is on Mag, we are down about 60k right now, and we all knew how the week would turn out since we lack sea coverage, but this week is the most active the server has been since the last time we rolled up to T2 about a month ago. No one cares about winning PPT wars when we are having fun fighting new people.

*having balanced populations was and is the devs number one priority for logical reasons, it’s not “ways to increase variety” at the top of the list…

Bolded.

That has nothing to do with…… anything being argued here.

Sure it does… You brought up server loyalty in your counter argument against the idea, or did you forget to read the quote from you…

With all due respect, I can’t carry a discussion with someone who doesn’t follow the conversation and intentionally deflects.

Have a good day or evening and thanks for the feedback!

Dusty Moon.4382:

Sorry – there are no factions in GW2 and it doesn’t follow lore. Now if we were in Cantha, that would be different.

The OP makes no sense, other than pushing Tier 1 to be even more unrepresentative of the other servers in this game.

Well that lore breaking eotm seems to not have all the issues that wvw can’t shake off…

I’m looking at wvw as a whole.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

“This idea doesn’t fix anything, it just drives away people that play for server loyalty”… So you oppose the 3 faction idea that pools players from servers and used the above in quotes as one counter point, but yet you support and idea of mass scale server hopping and mixing of players…

Being able to tier hop at will for fun and variety doesn’t forcefully separate anyone from their servers. There are players that love defending their home bl, they take pride in it, they still get to do this.

you don’t lose the ability to run with server peeps in the faction model I suggested so your point is moot

Swagger.1459:

More balanced populations must be first or all else fails. Nobody gives a hoot about “variety” when they are outnumbered… Lack of “variety” doesn’t cause people to log in frustration, its getting blown out. “Variety” won’t change the fact that your side is down 50-100k and facing twice your numbers…

Honestly, you don’t seem to have a deeper understanding of rvr gameplay, what state wvw is in and what we have to work with…

You don’t have a deeper understanding of human nature. If people get bored of something they find something else to do.
My main account is on Mag, we are down about 60k right now, and we all knew how the week would turn out since we lack sea coverage, but this week is the most active the server has been since the last time we rolled up to T2 about a month ago. No one cares about winning PPT wars when we are having fun fighting new people.

having balanced populations was and is the devs number one priority for logical reasons, it’s not “ways to increase variety” at the top of the list…

Bolded.

Darkside.7182:

SoftLight.2175:

you are my new hero Darkside.7182 can you pls teach me how to play?

of course i can teach you softlight. First, put back your staff into your bag and change your HoT pets to wolf and hound or whatever you want. arm yourself with shortbow and axe-torch or sword-torch. make practice with your new skillful condi-trapper ranger.

But i guess you cant.. You keep staying on staff 1 and wait-watch your pets for killing. This is more suits you.

why don’t you change your own build and style instead of complaining?

Are you posting in any other profession section asking them to stand still and change their better builds?

Why don’t you learn from these encounters and improve your skills?

You are complaining about pets that struggle to hit moving targets, but are you complaining about those double 10k thief vaults?

Are you posting in any other section about their sustainability and skills?

Players are not going to play by your rules. You spvp so you are used to fighting in circles and taking advantage of condition spam, but wvw is different so you’ll need to improve yourself before complaining.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Nuzt.7894:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Nuzt.7894:

No harm in trying, at this point if we’re willing to accept more siege and other nonsense that I feel is truly not needed then why the heck not. Worst case scenario, it sucks for a week, we survived Golem week (kind of) so I think after that failure we can survive just about anything.

It already has been tried, it’s called eotm. It failed drastically. It is boycotted by the majority of the WvW playerbase and used as a karma train by pve players.

There would be plenty of harm in trying to test this in real WvW because it isn’t as simple as flipping a switch. How many months would it take to implement this in the game? That’s time taken away from things that would actually help like a decent balance patch so the game is actually fun to play again.

No there really wouldn’t at this point. All this crap we’re voting for lately could potentially do more damage. So why not, might as well go balls to the wall with lawl features.

I don’t think it should be set up quite like EotM though, you are right about that being terrible. Keeps servers and allow colors to server hop/guest. So green could go to any green, blue to any blue, red to any red. If you have queues you can hop to a different matchup, who knows it might even help out that T4 kitten show.

Do it for a week, who knows it might be refreshing to have some variety, just make it so players of X server get priority in Queues over guests. Combine the scores of each color or don’t combine them. In all honesty I could careless what they do with all these new polls, it’s quite evident Anet’s blind to the real issues. So as long as our guild can get some good fights, that’s the only real “fun” left.

imo of course.

Now that is something I’d be down for trying out. That’s a much better suggestion than the suggestion to force everyone into 1 stale blobby match up.

But what happens to your server pride in this scenario of mixed up server hoppers?….

What happens when your home server maps are empty because they are fighting somewhere else?

So if the majority of your server is in another server then that kills the 3 way war scenario for opponents and takes away 33% of potential fights…

You can’t see how this freedom to choose can potentially lead to taking advantage of the system and leads to way unbalanced matches?

RvR is player driven and dependent so you need players on maps with closer to equal numbers for this mode to stay afloat. The individual and linking models have failed on many levels, and too much freedom leads back to what we had and still have. It’s far more logical to pool the overall low wvw population together and balance “things” for 3 sides and 1 match up.

variety is more important than balance. The only reason I’m still playing is because I have multiple accounts and I am not stuck in 1 stale match up for weeks on end.

No, variety is not more important than balance. Goes to show how little you understand what makes rvr gameplay tick with that comment.

Welp, there goes your server pride excuse out the window…

I never said server pride was my reason for playing. There are plenty of people who do play for that reason though. I don’t ignore something just because it doesn’t affect me personally. That’s part of your problem, you only think about what you enjoy rather than how it would affect the community.

And yes variety is more important than balance because it keeps people playing more often. Look at any matchup that had been locked for months, the population of all 3 sides dwindles because they are tired of the same opponents and they know how the match will turn out.

Any time you switch the servers up and people have new opponents a bunch of people that took a break start playing again. There are enough people interested in wvw to queue every server in 4 tiers. We saw that when they did the server pairings. But the staleness of glicko locked fights drove people away out of boredom.

“This idea doesn’t fix anything, it just drives away people that play for server loyalty”… So you oppose the 3 faction idea that pools players from servers and used the above in quotes as one counter point, but yet you support and idea of mass scale server hopping and mixing of players…

More balanced populations must be first or all else fails. Nobody gives a hoot about “variety” when they are outnumbered… Lack of “variety” doesn’t cause people to log in frustration, its getting blown out. “Variety” won’t change the fact that your side is down 50-100k and facing twice your numbers…

Honestly, you don’t seem to have a deeper understanding of rvr gameplay, what state wvw is in and what we have to work with…

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

WvW is not only about zerging, don’t mix those things up.

I’m well aware thanks.

Are you though? Because you keep ignoring everything i listed and resorting to “what can they do in the blob”

Yeah I’m pretty aware of this profession.

I didn’t ignore anything you listed, perhaps reread my comments and ty to answer those questions instead of deflecting.

Edit- I’ll even refresh your memory…

Swagger.1459:

Ranger is mostly a one trick “run away” pony for roaming and still useless in supporting zergs despite Druid.

Play it in wvw because you like aesthetics of the class, but don’t hope for any sort of meaningful contributions to the team besides tagging stuff for bags.

I already acknowledged your roaming thing you’re stuck on…

And look at my immediate response to that post where I explained how you can work in conjunction with the zerg without 1 spamming in the middle of it. You have a very narrow view of what you think WvW is. There are a lot of ways to get things done without simply forming the biggest blob.

Oh I’m well aware thanks.

Maybe answer my questions and let’s see how much you understand?

Made some edits in that last post so take a look.

Jim Hunter.6821:

And it’s very easy to support zergs, you just operate around the fringes. You prep things for them, you pick off the enemy backline and reinforcements, you open up a back door to a keep while the enemy is focused on your zerg, you keep the enemy focused on you at bay while your zerg takes hills, etc.

I can’t count the amount of times I’ve had a whole pug zerg turn to chase myself and a couple roamers that have been harassing their backline, only to stretch themselves out and get destroyed.

You are doing nothing except keeping this conversation cyclical and deflecting.

Did you read my edits? Do you see where I acknowledge what you said?

Do you do more than roam and duel on your self sustaining build?

Do you know what the Druid was “sold” to us as? Have you ever run that type of build in wvw?

What does ranger bring to the wvw table that other professions can’t or can’t do as well besides longbow 1500?

I’ve already answered your question, you chose to ignore it. Rangers don’t have to be in the middle of the zerg to support a large scale fight, they work better around the periphery, separating and ganking backline players. Druid helps in this by providing more access to stealth and ancient seeds to lock down the players that you have managed to separate from the herd.

I’m assuming what you have been angling at when you kept repeating the same question (and ignoring the answers already provided) is that druids should have a healing role in zergs. I’ve seen players do it but I don’t understand the enjoyment they get from it. I much prefer harassing the enemy.

Just saying, you have not sold the idea of playing ranger in wvw over any other profession.

I’ve acknowledged everything you said and understand, even quoted myself to make it easy for you.

Ok, so any profession can be outside of the middle of the zerg and support them in various ways… Engineers, Mesmers and Thieves can support their groups better with stealth. Other professions bring much more potent CC skills. Other professions can bring much better damage and burst… Other professions can bring much better support and utility skills, and more consistent healing on the move. Other professions can roam. Other professions can 1v… So tell me what substantial things can a ranger bring to the wvw table that is better than other professions?

Do rangers have great toolsets for commanding and leading havoc groups compared to other professions?

You obviously didn’t mention a healing role in any of your posts on this subject, so that tells me what we all know… Druid brought very little in terms of quality team healing support (any team size healing besides the self sustaining druid and pet team variety…) because it’s an overall poor design for movement based combat, not reliable healing, clunky to use and more fit for pve encounters… Druid was supposed to “bring heavy healing to the game and capable of sustaining a zerg train of 20-30 players…”, so why didn’t you try what that build was supposed to be capable of and then sell it to the players as a great feature of playing this profession…

What’s funny is that my original comments were not dissimilar to yours because we both said rangers can roam and are not great for zergs basically…

Necro main who thinks their class is useless in pvp…

Well darkside, we are not free lunch anymore, we can bite back so watch out!

Darkside.7182:

Guys plz are you mocking us or dont know what to do. Why this scrap druids still same? Why you not nerfing that kitten OP HoT pets? Druid just standing on auto attack with defensive build, healing himself, moving around and pets doing 10k damage you think this is normal? Ridiculous..

I guess you dont wanna lose noob players because %95 of gw2 noob population is playing with that trash druids-rangers..

I dont know, buff other weapons-pets-traits or something else but fix this kitten druid HoT pets with perma cowardish staff auto attack gameplay.

Make it more skillful play style.

I’m feeling you should improve your own skillful playstyle instead.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Nuzt.7894:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Nuzt.7894:

No harm in trying, at this point if we’re willing to accept more siege and other nonsense that I feel is truly not needed then why the heck not. Worst case scenario, it sucks for a week, we survived Golem week (kind of) so I think after that failure we can survive just about anything.

It already has been tried, it’s called eotm. It failed drastically. It is boycotted by the majority of the WvW playerbase and used as a karma train by pve players.

There would be plenty of harm in trying to test this in real WvW because it isn’t as simple as flipping a switch. How many months would it take to implement this in the game? That’s time taken away from things that would actually help like a decent balance patch so the game is actually fun to play again.

No there really wouldn’t at this point. All this crap we’re voting for lately could potentially do more damage. So why not, might as well go balls to the wall with lawl features.

I don’t think it should be set up quite like EotM though, you are right about that being terrible. Keeps servers and allow colors to server hop/guest. So green could go to any green, blue to any blue, red to any red. If you have queues you can hop to a different matchup, who knows it might even help out that T4 kitten show.

Do it for a week, who knows it might be refreshing to have some variety, just make it so players of X server get priority in Queues over guests. Combine the scores of each color or don’t combine them. In all honesty I could careless what they do with all these new polls, it’s quite evident Anet’s blind to the real issues. So as long as our guild can get some good fights, that’s the only real “fun” left.

imo of course.

Now that is something I’d be down for trying out. That’s a much better suggestion than the suggestion to force everyone into 1 stale blobby match up.

But what happens to your server pride in this scenario of mixed up server hoppers?….

What happens when your home server maps are empty because they are fighting somewhere else?

So if the majority of your server is in another server then that kills the 3 way war scenario for opponents and takes away 33% of potential fights…

You can’t see how this freedom to choose can potentially lead to taking advantage of the system and leads to way unbalanced matches?

RvR is player driven and dependent so you need players on maps with closer to equal numbers for this mode to stay afloat. The individual and linking models have failed on many levels, and too much freedom leads back to what we had and still have. It’s far more logical to pool the overall low wvw population together and balance “things” for 3 sides and 1 match up.

variety is more important than balance. The only reason I’m still playing is because I have multiple accounts and I am not stuck in 1 stale match up for weeks on end.

No, variety is not more important than balance. Goes to show how little you understand what makes rvr gameplay tick with that comment.

Welp, there goes your server pride excuse out the window…

Nuzt.7894:

Well, with your proposal server pride will be dead so that doesn’t matter. If scores are combined ie: all four green servers points go to one pool, you will want to ensure all 4 Green match ups are not dormant. And lastly that 33% of potential fights could be found somewhere else if you really want them.

Throwing everybody into one giant blobby match up sounds excruciating and not in the least bit fun, at least if you had separate matches and allowed colors to assist one another you’re not locked in to the blob fest that only T1 seems to enjoy.

I’m all for trying something new as far as match ups go, my fear is with your purposal we’ll get a poll and those that do not want that type of WvW will be forced into it. I think my proposal gives the bast of both worlds, if you want blobby epic siege infested battle you can guest on over to T1, if you want to find 20-30 man fights without worrying about the omni blob you can go to a different Tier, and lastly if you just want some small skirmishes you can jump around until you find a quieter match up.

I wasn’t the one concerned with server pride, that was one anti faction excuse by jim hunter.

My suggestion is to have 1 realm with more maps into play, and that’s a cleaner way to do it instead of server 1 – 4 EB, ABL, DBL.

These are RvRvR maps designed primarily to host mass combat gameplay. If players want 20-30 vs 20-30 vs 20-30 then go to OS. If players want quiet small skirmishes then go to spvp…

Jim Hunter.6821:

Nuzt.7894:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Nuzt.7894:

No harm in trying, at this point if we’re willing to accept more siege and other nonsense that I feel is truly not needed then why the heck not. Worst case scenario, it sucks for a week, we survived Golem week (kind of) so I think after that failure we can survive just about anything.

It already has been tried, it’s called eotm. It failed drastically. It is boycotted by the majority of the WvW playerbase and used as a karma train by pve players.

There would be plenty of harm in trying to test this in real WvW because it isn’t as simple as flipping a switch. How many months would it take to implement this in the game? That’s time taken away from things that would actually help like a decent balance patch so the game is actually fun to play again.

No there really wouldn’t at this point. All this crap we’re voting for lately could potentially do more damage. So why not, might as well go balls to the wall with lawl features.

I don’t think it should be set up quite like EotM though, you are right about that being terrible. Keeps servers and allow colors to server hop/guest. So green could go to any green, blue to any blue, red to any red. If you have queues you can hop to a different matchup, who knows it might even help out that T4 kitten show.

Do it for a week, who knows it might be refreshing to have some variety, just make it so players of X server get priority in Queues over guests. Combine the scores of each color or don’t combine them. In all honesty I could careless what they do with all these new polls, it’s quite evident Anet’s blind to the real issues. So as long as our guild can get some good fights, that’s the only real “fun” left.

imo of course.

Now that is something I’d be down for trying out. That’s a much better suggestion than the suggestion to force everyone into 1 stale blobby match up.

But what happens to your server pride in this scenario of mixed up server hoppers?….

What happens when your home server maps are empty because they are fighting somewhere else?

So if the majority of your server is in another server then that kills the 3 way war scenario for opponents and takes away 33% of potential fights…

You can’t see how this freedom to choose can potentially lead to taking advantage of the system and leads to way unbalanced matches?

RvR is player driven and dependent so you need players on maps with closer to equal numbers for this mode to stay afloat. The individual and linking models have failed on many levels, and too much freedom leads back to what we had and still have. It’s far more logical to pool the overall low wvw population together and balance “things” for 3 sides and 1 match up.

TexZero.7910:

Swagger.1459:

The devs are looking into difficulty settings and it’s going to be ok peeps.

You seem to have gotten your wish. Go play the new map and play loot pinata with “Definitely Not Vale Guardian”. You can even get “Definitely not Raid Rewards”.

This is the best thing the devs could have done. Now can we lock topic ?

No no my friend, I’m talking about the actual raid and the difficulty settings the devs are looking into.

Skynet.7201:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zenral.3958:

The main problem here are bandwagoners migrating back and forth between servers and imbalancing the population that way, I can only assume Anet never addresses this due to the amount of money they get with all the $$$ in gems and transfers.

Which would still happen if they replaced servers with factions.
This idea doesn’t fix anything, it just drives away people that play for server loyalty, and people that don’t enjoy the blobs.

Umm they could relink individual servers within the factions to reach a better state of balance and lock all server transfers for periods of time to current players…

Edit- And you can still organize groups and run with peeps in your servers so it changes nothing. Also, individual server is less significant than the overall health and state of wvw.

If you haven’t noticed there were issues with the individual server vs server model, and there are issues with server linkings as well. Also, I’m feeling pretty positive there are way more people who don’t care about your “server pride” considering the devs stated populations shift over time…

So alienate the people that still do care about it and then lock the factions so the game completely stagnates. Yup that won’t get old real fast.

Yep. That’ll kill WvW real quick. People I’ve spoken to already said they’d leave if it came to any kind of “factions” idea. If we wanted that kitten, we’d go to EotM.

The further we move away from original WvW, the worse things get.

The “original wvw” failed to be a balanced and thriving rvr model…

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

WvW is not only about zerging, don’t mix those things up.

I’m well aware thanks.

Are you though? Because you keep ignoring everything i listed and resorting to “what can they do in the blob”

Yeah I’m pretty aware of this profession.

I didn’t ignore anything you listed, perhaps reread my comments and ty to answer those questions instead of deflecting.

Edit- I’ll even refresh your memory…

Swagger.1459:

Ranger is mostly a one trick “run away” pony for roaming and still useless in supporting zergs despite Druid.

Play it in wvw because you like aesthetics of the class, but don’t hope for any sort of meaningful contributions to the team besides tagging stuff for bags.

I already acknowledged your roaming thing you’re stuck on…

And look at my immediate response to that post where I explained how you can work in conjunction with the zerg without 1 spamming in the middle of it. You have a very narrow view of what you think WvW is. There are a lot of ways to get things done without simply forming the biggest blob.

Oh I’m well aware thanks.

Maybe answer my questions and let’s see how much you understand?

Made some edits in that last post so take a look.

Jim Hunter.6821:

And it’s very easy to support zergs, you just operate around the fringes. You prep things for them, you pick off the enemy backline and reinforcements, you open up a back door to a keep while the enemy is focused on your zerg, you keep the enemy focused on you at bay while your zerg takes hills, etc.

I can’t count the amount of times I’ve had a whole pug zerg turn to chase myself and a couple roamers that have been harassing their backline, only to stretch themselves out and get destroyed.

You are doing nothing except keeping this conversation cyclical and deflecting.

Did you read my edits? Do you see where I acknowledge what you said?

Do you do more than roam and fringe and duel on your self sustaining build?

Do you know what the Druid was “sold” to us as? Have you ever run that type of build in wvw?

What does ranger bring to the wvw table that other professions can’t or can’t do as well besides longbow 1500?

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zenral.3958:

The main problem here are bandwagoners migrating back and forth between servers and imbalancing the population that way, I can only assume Anet never addresses this due to the amount of money they get with all the $$$ in gems and transfers.

Which would still happen if they replaced servers with factions.
This idea doesn’t fix anything, it just drives away people that play for server loyalty, and people that don’t enjoy the blobs.

Umm they could relink individual servers within the factions to reach a better state of balance and lock all server transfers for periods of time to current players…

Edit- And you can still organize groups and run with peeps in your servers so it changes nothing. Also, individual server is less significant than the overall health and state of wvw.

If you haven’t noticed there were issues with the individual server vs server model, and there are issues with server linkings as well. Also, I’m feeling pretty positive there are way more people who don’t care about your “server pride” considering the devs stated populations shift over time…

So alienate the people that still do care about it and then lock the factions so the game completely stagnates. Yup that won’t get old real fast.

So you care more about whatever individual server you are on as opposed to the overall wellbeing of wvw?

Server linking is already mixing up players and populations increased as a result, so why do you think that is?

What prevents you from forming teams with players on your server to accomplish goals on the map?

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

WvW is not only about zerging, don’t mix those things up.

I’m well aware thanks.

Are you though? Because you keep ignoring everything i listed and resorting to “what can they do in the blob”

Yeah I’m pretty aware of this profession.

I didn’t ignore anything you listed, perhaps reread my comments and ty to answer those questions instead of deflecting.

Edit- I’ll even refresh your memory…

Swagger.1459:

Ranger is mostly a one trick “run away” pony for roaming and still useless in supporting zergs despite Druid.

Play it in wvw because you like aesthetics of the class, but don’t hope for any sort of meaningful contributions to the team besides tagging stuff for bags.

I already acknowledged your roaming thing you’re stuck on…

And look at my immediate response to that post where I explained how you can work in conjunction with the zerg without 1 spamming in the middle of it. You have a very narrow view of what you think WvW is. There are a lot of ways to get things done without simply forming the biggest blob.

Oh I’m well aware thanks.

Maybe answer my questions and let’s see how much you understand?

Made some edits in that last post so take a look.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zenral.3958:

The main problem here are bandwagoners migrating back and forth between servers and imbalancing the population that way, I can only assume Anet never addresses this due to the amount of money they get with all the $$$ in gems and transfers.

Which would still happen if they replaced servers with factions.
This idea doesn’t fix anything, it just drives away people that play for server loyalty, and people that don’t enjoy the blobs.

Umm they could relink individual servers within the factions to reach a better state of balance and lock all server transfers for periods of time to current players…

Edit- And you can still organize groups and run with peeps in your servers so it changes nothing. Also, individual server is less significant than the overall health and state of wvw.

If you haven’t noticed there were issues with the individual server vs server model, and there are issues with server linkings as well. Also, I’m feeling pretty positive there are way more people who don’t care about your “server pride” considering the devs stated populations shift over time…

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

WvW is not only about zerging, don’t mix those things up.

I’m well aware thanks.

Are you though? Because you keep ignoring everything i listed and resorting to “what can they do in the blob”

Yeah I’m pretty aware of this profession.

I didn’t ignore anything you listed, perhaps reread my comments and ty to answer those questions instead of deflecting.

Edit- I’ll even refresh your memory…

Swagger.1459:

Ranger is mostly a one trick “run away” pony for roaming and still useless in supporting zergs despite Druid.

Play it in wvw because you like aesthetics of the class, but don’t hope for any sort of meaningful contributions to the team besides tagging stuff for bags.

I already acknowledged your roaming thing you’re stuck on…

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Ranger is a one trick "run away pony for roaming and still useless in supporting zergs despite Druid.

Play it in wvw because you like aesthetics of the class, but don’t hope for any sort of meaningful contributions to the team besides tagging stuff for bags.

What do you mean by “one trick run away pony”? (seriously asking)
I regularly engage in and win 1v3’s (pulled off higher numbers than that, this is just on a daily basis) or 2vX’s, and I can solo/duo cap, just about anything. If the opposing server is adamant about defending their bl they have to leave a good dozen people to watch their stuff.

And it’s very easy to support zergs, you just operate around the fringes. You prep things for them, you pick off the enemy backline and reinforcements, you open up a back door to a keep while the enemy is focused on your zerg, you keep the enemy focused on you at bay while your zerg takes hills, etc.

I can’t count the amount of times I’ve had a whole pug zerg turn to chase myself and a couple roamers that have been harassing their backline, only to stretch themselves out and get destroyed.

I was generalizing. Ranger is not that great in comparison in wvw.

Let me know how good that heal support role is going as well if you wish.

In comparison to what? Because as far as roaming goes I’d place them at the top of the list for the reasons I’ve already mentioned in this thread. People will argue that thief is better but that’s only because they have an easier time resetting fights. Ranger is better in a 1v1, they can flip objectives easier, and they have the second best mobility.

Ok, great, they can roam and take camps and 1v1 better… So what do they bring to wvw in general that stands out? What do they contribute to the blob that stands out? Are we really pumping out those kick butt heals to sustain a zerg train of 20-30 players as advertised? Can you provide any contributing role that outshines most other classes?

Bolded part that clearly shows I was ignoring your comments…

I’m paying attention to our conversation, so maybe you can reciprocate?

UmbraNoctis.1907:

WvW is not only about zerging, don’t mix those things up.

I’m well aware thanks.

Krypto.2069:

Swagger.1459:

…-Snip-

… it’s more about the balance of players on the map and having more even “good” fights. I’ve brought this up before, but I think it’s time to take stronger steps to balance populations by experimenting with factions then running a vote AFTER testing for a period of time… I’m thinking at this point it’s easier to accomplish so just put more maps in play. Divide out the servers into 3 sides. Adjust individual servers weekly as needed to balance faster. Reevaluate things after a trial period.

With half the servers being absorbed via the linking anyway, I’m guessing “Server Pride” for these poor souls has started to take a backseat in the scheme of things. (“Backseat” as in the last row of seats on a bus with 30 rows of seats …especially in Tier 4 NA!)

Even though I’m from a host server, on an importance scale – I put having good/even fights at the top of my list. (And w/o over-stacked blob lag!)

So I’m down for trying something like you’re proposing, Swagger.

Anet,

Please at least consider bringing it to a vote for a possible TRIAL implementation, like Swagger said.

Kitten, guys, we’ve had two votes to add more siege related items into WvW on a trial basis… cuz you know that’s what WvW needs – more siege! /sarcasm off.

Btw, thanks for your tenacity regarding this subject, Swagger.

Thank you for the kind words and support for this amazing idea!

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Ranger is a one trick "run away pony for roaming and still useless in supporting zergs despite Druid.

Play it in wvw because you like aesthetics of the class, but don’t hope for any sort of meaningful contributions to the team besides tagging stuff for bags.

What do you mean by “one trick run away pony”? (seriously asking)
I regularly engage in and win 1v3’s (pulled off higher numbers than that, this is just on a daily basis) or 2vX’s, and I can solo/duo cap, just about anything. If the opposing server is adamant about defending their bl they have to leave a good dozen people to watch their stuff.

And it’s very easy to support zergs, you just operate around the fringes. You prep things for them, you pick off the enemy backline and reinforcements, you open up a back door to a keep while the enemy is focused on your zerg, you keep the enemy focused on you at bay while your zerg takes hills, etc.

I can’t count the amount of times I’ve had a whole pug zerg turn to chase myself and a couple roamers that have been harassing their backline, only to stretch themselves out and get destroyed.

I was generalizing. Ranger is not that great in comparison in wvw.

Let me know how good that heal support role is going as well if you wish.

In comparison to what? Because as far as roaming goes I’d place them at the top of the list for the reasons I’ve already mentioned in this thread. People will argue that thief is better but that’s only because they have an easier time resetting fights. Ranger is better in a 1v1, they can flip objectives easier, and they have the second best mobility.

Ok, great, they can roam and take camps and 1v1 better… So what do they bring to wvw in general that stands out? What do they contribute to the blob that stands out? Are we really pumping out those kick butt heals to sustain a zerg train of 20-30 players as advertised? Can you provide any contributing role that outshines most other classes?

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

Ranger is a one trick "run away pony for roaming and still useless in supporting zergs despite Druid.

Play it in wvw because you like aesthetics of the class, but don’t hope for any sort of meaningful contributions to the team besides tagging stuff for bags.

What do you mean by “one trick run away pony”? (seriously asking)
I regularly engage in and win 1v3’s (pulled off higher numbers than that, this is just on a daily basis) or 2vX’s, and I can solo/duo cap, just about anything. If the opposing server is adamant about defending their bl they have to leave a good dozen people to watch their stuff.

And it’s very easy to support zergs, you just operate around the fringes. You prep things for them, you pick off the enemy backline and reinforcements, you open up a back door to a keep while the enemy is focused on your zerg, you keep the enemy focused on you at bay while your zerg takes hills, etc.

I can’t count the amount of times I’ve had a whole pug zerg turn to chase myself and a couple roamers that have been harassing their backline, only to stretch themselves out and get destroyed.

I was generalizing. Ranger is not that great in comparison in wvw.

Let me know how good that heal support role is going as well if you wish.

Ranger is mostly a one trick “run away” pony for roaming and still useless in supporting zergs despite Druid.

Play it in wvw because you like aesthetics of the class, but don’t hope for any sort of meaningful contributions to the team besides tagging stuff for bags.

I’m not bumping my own threads hidden multiple pages down.

This suggestion is asking for a trial period which is different than saying “just change it” as I have said before.

I will keep bringing suggestions as long as these problems exist.

With having spent the majority of playtime in tier 1 I can safely say that most times of day or night have plenty of room on maps. It’s very few and far between that there are queues honestly, so I can’t imagine the other servers being much different. What this, and the need for linking, indicates is that the overall wvw population is still pretty low and unbalanced so this problem is not going away with all these different match ups.

Players don’t care so much about “winning”, it’s more about the balance of players on the map and having more even “good” fights. I’ve brought this up before, but I think it’s time to take stronger steps to balance populations by experimenting with factions then running a vote AFTER testing for a period of time… I’m thinking at this point it’s easier to accomplish so just put more maps in play. Divide out the servers into 3 sides. Adjust individual servers weekly as needed to balance faster. Reevaluate things after a trial period.

The devs are looking into difficulty settings and it’s going to be ok peeps.

JTGuevara.9018:

Swagger.1459:

JTGuevara.9018:

Let’s review our history. We lost Minstrels, Mercenary, Soldiers and NOW Clerics.

What’s the next amulet on the chopping block? Menders? Sage? It seems like every amulet removed is a defensive one. Do we just hate defense/support? Do we just like to spam DPS to death without a second thought? At what point, do we realize, that removing amulets will NOT solve the problem? At what point do we realize the OBVIOUS problem? Balance and HoT builds.

HoT builds simply do too much damage. The amount of conditions they pump out is absurd. With the removal of clerics, it’s even WORSE. Removing clerics did nothing but kill support builds and especially Eles. We’re killing builds, folks.

It’s not a “hot” problem… It’s that the developers do not make any serious reinvestments back to profession development. Anet obviously devotes very little resources to classes and the combat systems. The “paths of least resistance” balancing is what we get and that’s unfortunate because Anet could have one of the top fantasy mmo class and combat systems if the top made it a priority.

No, it IS a HoT problem, but yes I agree with your other point as well.

Hot was designed with increased difficulty in mind and the devs tailored elites to that content. The real issue is that CORE professions need improvement, not a “hot stuff needs a nerf”. The devs had the intention of squashing the zerker meta and putting more roles in the game, as well as filling some role and combat style gaps with each profession. It’s long process that they started not too long ago and they are obviously facing some “growing pains” judging by the profession patch notes.

I was a long time and hardcore pvper once, but gw2 broke that habit because pvp modes are messy due to the pve profession designs, pve combat rules, tons of clunky skill designs, poor combat UI, lack of playable roles, lack of development by the staff… The devs need to go back to square one and reenvision classes and combat here or it goes nowhere. Again, it’s not a “hot” problem, it’s a “the decision makers needs to care about the profession and combat experiences” problem, and devote some serious person power to make something good out of it.

greenarrow.2784:

Zenith.7301:

It’s a useless class for zergs/large scale, since ranger aoe and utility (since spirits die quick there) is trash.

People only play druids for roaming/duels, which do nothing of significant value for the mist war score.

i find ranger needs a new ranged power weapon , only ranged power weapon is longbow , axe is condition shortbow is condition , i stil got a mesmer gues i play with her for wvw i hope in the future ranger gets more buffed

We have more than enough ranged covered. What we need are major damage increases across the board, threatening burst and far better melee capabilities.

JTGuevara.9018:

Let’s review our history. We lost Minstrels, Mercenary, Soldiers and NOW Clerics.

What’s the next amulet on the chopping block? Menders? Sage? It seems like every amulet removed is a defensive one. Do we just hate defense/support? Do we just like to spam DPS to death without a second thought? At what point, do we realize, that removing amulets will NOT solve the problem? At what point do we realize the OBVIOUS problem? Balance and HoT builds.

HoT builds simply do too much damage. The amount of conditions they pump out is absurd. With the removal of clerics, it’s even WORSE. Removing clerics did nothing but kill support builds and especially Eles. We’re killing builds, folks.

It’s not a “hot” problem… It’s that the developers do not make any serious reinvestments back to profession development. Anet obviously devotes very little resources to classes and the combat systems. The “paths of least resistance” balancing is what we get and that’s unfortunate because Anet could have one of the top fantasy mmo class and combat systems if the higher up made it a priority.

Chaos.5072:

Honestly it baffles me how long this is taking.

By the time this finishes, we’ll have enough insights to get all 3 sets

Because that’s how anet does it and it needs to change. They produce smaller amounts of content comparatively and spread it out as long as possible. Player enjoyment and retention suffers because anet manages themselves this way and carries this type of release schedule.

Player angst is also increased due to lack of communication and vision sharing by anet. They have done better as of recent times, but players are mostly in limbo.

Unfortunately, I see this taking another year long grind process.

Edit- I do commend Anet for their creativity with extending the life of the content they produce, but it’s obvious they stuggle in many areas and are a company that seem to have to make too many sacrifices in too many areas to produce what they have.

Phil.8901:

So

Envoy Armor II: Refined Armor = raids (confirmed)

HoT = raids and Legendary Armor

So

Another raid before next XPAC is pretty mandatory?

It could be a good news and a bad news at the same time, good because we could have another raid wing before the next Xpac, bad news because there is no ETA and maybe we need to wait 6 months (at least).

so another year long process to continuously buy more time?

UnbentMars.9126:

The new Special Action icon currently shows up as a small button upwards and to the left of the Health Globe in the center of the UI. Currently it is only utilized in a few places (Wing 3 of the raid and after receiving the first mastery for the new Ancient Magic mastery line, for example), but I’d like to request a QOL change before it sees even more use.

It’s current location does not feel very well placed, I believe it would be better suited somewhere else.

The icon is currently too small, multiple times I’ve missed the cue because I overshoot it with my mouse.

There’s no way to know when it pops up other than by watching that area of the screen intently. There’s no flash when it pops up, it’s location isn’t one that is commonly looked at, and the button being so small makes it difficult to see and easy to miss unless its too late.

If this button is going to see even more use (which I actually think is a good idea for many things), I think it best that the improvements be made early while it’s still easy to make the change.

Please and thank you!

Was thinking about this earlier and I agree. I’d like to see it placed on the right side of the combat bar itself, not just switching sides to the same location. More noticeable as well.

Thank you for the improvements!

It’s a good patch overall.

Hopefully someday y’all can seriously dig back into professions and make them better.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

No, it’s not something that works for GW2 and nothing ANet wants to do (“We don’t want you to have to wait for your healer to come online”)

Are you sure?

Irenio during Druid reveal at Twitchcon…

“Bringing heavy healing to GW2, unlike anything you have seen before. Strong support, very powerful in upcoming raids and WvW. Can sustain a zerg train of 20-30 players in WvW.

Upcoming content will have stuff that you can’t just dodge to survive.

Berserk meta is going away."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ZHhJQn0B8

Improving professions and roles adds depth and longevity to the game. It also allows the developers to create even more challenging content and combat.

Heartseeker never had tracking issues, so the devs can do it.

Good job devs and thank you!

Smooth Penguin.5294:

A long time ago, in a forum area not far from here, we used to have lively debates on RNG and rare loot. The debate would go back and forth between economy minded players, and players who just wanted to collect everything. It was pretty much a one-sided discussion, because for a while, the economy as a whole needed RNG to keep the fragile balance of currency value. Rare items were rare, and the game benefited from this because luxury items had more prestige.

Fast forward to today, and things are a lot different. Anet changed their stance on reward structures, and made loot a lot easier to get. Various PvP reward tracks were added, and even WvW got some love. In PvE, HoT introduced some of the most rewarding meta events in the 4 year history of this game. It got even better when Anet tripled the amount of chest spawns in the open world. RNG still exists, but considering all that’s happened, is RNG punishing enough?

Players have a love/hate relationship with RNG. I’m one of those who believe in the concept of RNG, and I feel that this game has gotten a bit to “reward happy”. This isn’t about feeding off of the tears of players who RNG hasn’t blessed. It’s more about why RNG is good for the game, and having really rare rewards be that much more desirable. It keeps the game alive longer, since End Game is truly the end when you’ve collected everything you ever wanted. Artificial gates, such as Time gated mats or RNG, help to prolong game goals for players.

IMO, rewards need to be scaled back. Easy loot makes players feel good in the short term, but Devs have to already think about the longevity of the game. When players run out of things to do, or run out of rewards to get, some lose the desire to keep playing. This feeling is amplified in content droughts.

You’re not fooling anyone with this post. This is a suggestion to help players who work the market to make more gold.

Orangensaft.7139:

you not complaining about the fact that he just gave himself full hellfire armor on real servers even though he has less than 900ap?

(PS: i dont mind it xD)

We should report for hacking maybe?

Caedmon.6798:

You’re delusional if you think removing dire would fix condi builds.The removal of stats is Not what we need,proper condi balancing across all classes is what we need.

Yup

StickerHappy.8052:

Swagger.1459:

I bet tomorrow we will get all the amazing fixes and improvements that were asked for!

You guys owe me a legendary if most of the changes here are on the patch tomorrow! XD

I think players that have longest time played on ranger should get a free legendary of choice.

I bet tomorrow we will get all the amazing fixes and improvements that were asked for!

I hope Anet claims more stuff after seeing this post.