Nobody should be leaving over changes in the dye market… that’s just nonsense.
I believe the people who saved for 6 months to make 300g for a dye which is now going to drop to 50g will be pretty frustrated for having 5 months of progress completely wiped. Those people just might look to switch to another game where progression is safer.
When they paid 300 gold for it, they felt at the time it was worth it. Why would they feel any different now that the same dye is now 50 gold? They got what they wanted.
It’s not much different than buying anything and finding out it was on sale a week later. Sure, there might be a tinge of “why didn’t I wait a week?” But you were still willing to pay what you paid when you paid it. What happens afterwards is relatively inconsequential.
Now if that dye was bought for investment’s sake, then all I have to say is that investing always has a risk. Beware.
[Players]: We want harder content!
[ANet]: Then harder content you shall have.
New Content Arrives
[Players]: The new content is too hard!
[ANet]: All is vain
Necromancers and their debacle with Dhuumfire are all nodding in agreement over this.
Necro is the only class I haven’t played a lot or leveled to 80. So I usually won’t comment there except for the fact I think power necros need more mobility since they aren’t playing attrition builds. That being said I do not know about the Dhuumfire nerf. So far they have removed some bleeds and have already nerfed it some to compensate for the passive condi. It is a pretty heavy investment for a condi builds to go that far into spite for one trait (condi duration is there I know but the other trait just aren’t that good.)
Lets be honest here a sec. Power necro wont touch if since close to death is there and if the trait is that big of an investment I don’t see the point in getting it. Death shroud toggling is mostly for power necros getting burst out. So the change will probably just kill the trait altogether. I think condi is general are OP as hell and signet of spite should have been looked at long ago. That being said nerfing a class this much based on one with that type of cost to get is just senseless.
If it was me I likely leave it as it is a focus on the number of condition spiked out at once vs nerfing the burning. If I was going to nerf it I would at least bring it down to master tier so you at least keep it useful, and move training of the master up. Whether MM uses it or not nerfs to petting zoos appease the masses.
All that being said I do not play the class or like condi heavy builds. So you can take what I say with a grain a salt.
My original post was basically simply an agreement with what was said about getting buffed and then getting nerfed to hell because of the buff.
Necromancers got Dhuumfire, which was supposed to be a buff. The necromancers themselves didn’t like it because they knew it was overpowered and they would soon get hit with the nerf hammer. And they certainly did. The strange thing is that they nerfed a ton and didn’t touch Dhuumfire for a long time. Now they’re finally trying to correct what was actually wrong to begin with, so necromancers are worse off than they had been before Dhuumfire.
Building a weaponset that is only good for PvE (and not even the best there) makes no sense.
Do you use S/P in PvE and WvW? If not then listen to the people that main it. It really is fine as it is right now.
sword pistol is wonderfull right now.. However id like to remind you that separating the stun and the flurry might not be as much of a nerf as you might think and thus for 3 reason
1. well still be able to chain the two move togueter even if they are separated. and prety much at the same speed
2. Pistol whip will now proc an easy low cost interupt wich you can pull in for nearly nothing!
3. Youl now be able to place your flurry at the right moment (like when the target is webed by a venom), so better damage overall for every thief in pvp and better initiative management.In the end id say its not a nerf but rather a buff
Just gonna leave this here for you and this. Take the time and read my post if you are going to quote me.
Im just saying it wont be a nerf if they make it a 2 move spell. You say its fine then good it will STILL be fine after that. People might wine but im always happy when anet actualy makes some of my skill better. Asuming they will nerf it right after they up it is pure paranoia
It isn’t like I am the only person to come to this conclusion. It is far from paranoia and pretty kitten logical. Many of thieves here who actually play S/P already realize how to make it “OP” with just auto attack. Since the skill works well as it is there really is no need to change it. They literally after a year just fixed the after cast to make it useful. I rather see it left alone then made “OP” and nerfed into the ground. While many players love when endless buffs come in if you read the writing on the wall long enough you realize some buffs are quite literally a set up for a nerf.
Listen this is the thief thread we have been through this before. Paranoia vs learning from the past? Fool us once shame on you. Fool us twice shame on us.
Necromancers and their debacle with Dhuumfire are all nodding in agreement over this.
Reading the forums, it seems that every profession has been named faceroll. Warrior, Mesmer, Engi, Necro, Ele, Ranger, and Thief. So…is there any viable team or 1v1 build that is not faceroll?
On a related note (assuming players of equal skill):
1. Which is the best 1v1 profession/build?
2. Which is the most wanted team profession/build?
3. Are either of the above “easy spam”? If yes, why does anyone ever run anything else?
4. What is the viability of builds that require huge amounts of skill?
5. Is there a profession where you can reach unlimited effectiveness merely by improving your skill?I have my own opinions of course, but I’m curious to know what the rest of the community thinks. For what it’s worth, here are my own thoughts to the questions:
1. Phantasm Mesmer or MM Necro
2. Warrior Hammer/Bow
3. All three above have been called “spammy” (true or not). People play other builds because they disagree to the answers of question 1 and 2
4. It seems builds requiring lots of skill still fall short of so called “easier” ones
5. Doesn’t look like it.
You didn’t mention anything about Guardian, so there’s your answer right there.
An idea I’d been throwing around in my head when the CDI: Horizontal Progression topic was in full swing was:
Area Notoriety:
Basically, a player would find a zone that they really liked and would spend a lot of time there doing events, group events and meta events. Each time one of these events was completed, that character (as I think it should be per character and not per account) would get a certain amount of notoriety around that zone.
Now you might be asking “why would I want notoriety in an area?”
The higher the notoriety that character had, the more the NPCs in that area would respond to you. The notoriety could be tiered, so someone with notoriety of zero in an area would be known by any given NPC as “stranger.” As you progress in notoriety, the NPCs would begin to recognize that character, and the text from the NPCs would change according to that fame. Tier 1 Notoriety would maybe say “You’re [insert name], aren’t you?” Tier 2 Notoriety would be “Ahh… [insert name]! Good to see you!” Tier 3 would be more personal. Once you reached Tier 4 Notoriety, you could get the title of “Champion of [insert area name here].”
Well that’s all well and good, Mr. TChalla, but is that really good enough?
On top of actually having the NPCs respond to you favorably with words, perhaps it could also affect any costs of NPC goods in that area.
Tier 0: Cost Reduction of 0%.
Tier 1: Cost Reduction of 2.5%
Tier 2: Cost Reduction of 5.0%
Tier 3: Cost Reduction of 7.5%
Tier 4: Cost Reduction of 10.0%This would be the cost of all NPC goods in that area only. It could also affect repair costs and waypoint costs in that area as well. TP costs wouldn’t be adjusted (for obvious reasons.) It could also be that anything sold to NPCs in that area would be bumped up by the same margin.
In looking at the numbers above, I don’t see that this would be too game-changing overall. But it’s a little something extra for going into zones not often touch once a character becomes level 80.
Speaking of level 80, notoriety within an area shouldn’t begin in an area unless a character is already level 80. This would help eliminate certain area champ trains from accumulating notoriety from leveling. It would strictly be end-game content… a little something extra for putting in the time/money/whatever to reach level 80.
As I said up front, it was just an idea I’d come up with. Feel free to tear it apart. Hehe
this is an interesting aside, but its not something that someone who has reached max level and done most things would enjoy. Essentially endgame needs to be a little kittenallenging, fun, more epic, and have some type of rewards that high end players want to obtain. It can even be progressive. Say if you have to be one to have access to another, even if it isnt gear progressive.
Here’s the thing though…
Essentially what you’re saying is that people who have reached level 80 want vertical progression. However, in these forums, the opposite is being touted. My idea is horizontal progression really. It doesn’t affect the power of the character in question, apart from a slight monetary potential easement in that zone.
However, for the sake of argument, I suppose you could add in an “area skin” that you could apply to your weapon once you reached Tier 4 Notoriety. I don’t particularly care one way or another. I can hear the “grinding notoriety” cries already though, which is something I was trying to avoid with the idea.
An idea I’d been throwing around in my head when the CDI: Horizontal Progression topic was in full swing was:
Area Notoriety:
Basically, a player would find a zone that they really liked and would spend a lot of time there doing events, group events and meta events. Each time one of these events was completed, that character (as I think it should be per character and not per account) would get a certain amount of notoriety around that zone.
Now you might be asking “why would I want notoriety in an area?”
The higher the notoriety that character had, the more the NPCs in that area would respond to you. The notoriety could be tiered, so someone with notoriety of zero in an area would be known by any given NPC as “stranger.” As you progress in notoriety, the NPCs would begin to recognize that character, and the text from the NPCs would change according to that fame. Tier 1 Notoriety would maybe say “You’re [insert name], aren’t you?” Tier 2 Notoriety would be “Ahh… [insert name]! Good to see you!” Tier 3 would be more personal. Once you reached Tier 4 Notoriety, you could get the title of “Champion of [insert area name here].”
Well that’s all well and good, Mr. TChalla, but is that really good enough?
On top of actually having the NPCs respond to you favorably with words, perhaps it could also affect any costs of NPC goods in that area.
Tier 0: Cost Reduction of 0%.
Tier 1: Cost Reduction of 2.5%
Tier 2: Cost Reduction of 5.0%
Tier 3: Cost Reduction of 7.5%
Tier 4: Cost Reduction of 10.0%
This would be the cost of all NPC goods in that area only. It could also affect repair costs and waypoint costs in that area as well. TP costs wouldn’t be adjusted (for obvious reasons.) It could also be that anything sold to NPCs in that area would be bumped up by the same margin.
In looking at the numbers above, I don’t see that this would be too game-changing overall. But it’s a little something extra for going into zones not often touch once a character becomes level 80.
Speaking of level 80, notoriety within an area shouldn’t begin in an area unless a character is already level 80. This would help eliminate certain area champ trains from accumulating notoriety from leveling. It would strictly be end-game content… a little something extra for putting in the time/money/whatever to reach level 80.
As I said up front, it was just an idea I’d come up with. Feel free to tear it apart. Hehe
I’m pretty well done arguing whether or not people prefer role-oriented play versus goal-oriented play, because it’s a stupid argument. Roles can be a necessity and not simply added in for the fun factor. Dodgeball would be another example. It is definitiely a team activity where there are no roles. Each member of a team has the exact same task. And it is still fun.
Getting back to the original topic, my other point still stands. The trinity doesn’t make combat better in my opinion because each member is forced to fill a specific role, and heaven help them if they deviate from that role, even if it actually made sense to do so.
GW2 allows each and every player to contribute to the end goal by dishing out as much damage as possible in as short a span of time as possible. The fact that there are teams is derived from the fact that it takes more damage to take something down than one person can dish out. And it is also derived from the fact that this is a multi-player game, and it’s fun to hang out with a group and work towards a goal together, whether there are roles or not. It’s called being sociable.
“Team bowling
Team Darts
Team Golf”-Now lets compare these team sports(lol) to actual team sports.
Bowling vs football
Darts vs hockeyFunny how you assumed I was even attempting to label these as team sports. The original challenge was:
“Please name one human, objectives-driven, group activity that is not role-based in terms of how it is conceived and executed.”
I answered with four examples that met that criteria. Not once did I call any of them a sport.
And, as I mentioned to you, your answers didn’t really meet the criteria. Individual sports are not going to serve well in understanding the dynamics of group behavior in achieving an objective. Teams playing an individual are all playing the individual sport. The team is just an artificial grouping of individual players. So, no you didn’t call them a sport, but you also didn’t provide examples that met the criteria. You are free to provide examples that do meet the criteria if you so desire.
My last response wasn’t even directed at you. I gave up with your semantics arguments last night. My response was directly towards the person that failed to read what I’d typed. Nothing more… nothing less.
But… now that you mention it, you might want to watch the Ryder’s Cup some time, and then tell me that team golf doesn’t meet the criteria. Tiger Woods would beg to differ.
“Team bowling
Team Darts
Team Golf”-Now lets compare these team sports(lol) to actual team sports.
Bowling vs football
Darts vs hockey
Funny how you assumed I was even attempting to label these as team sports. The original challenge was:
“Please name one human, objectives-driven, group activity that is not role-based in terms of how it is conceived and executed.”
I answered with four examples that met that criteria. Not once did I call any of them a sport.
I hope like hell they merge this with the myriad of other “I hate Scarlet, so stop” threads.
Yes, humans have the capacity to learn from experience. My point is simply that humans always approach objectives in a group in a role-based manner, whether we’re talking the army, a sports team, or brain surgery. GW2 combat is not role-based. Could that be why humans are finding it unsatisfying?
That’s it in a nutshell. I’m not arguing for the trinity. I am questioning whether the lack of meaningful combat roles is a good idea given human behavior in groups everywhere else.
I disagree. As someone else pointed out, humans are by-and-large goal-driven and not role-driven. In most situations, the reward is the most important thing, regardless of how it’s derived. The roles are not done due to the desire to fill a role. They are done out of necessity to succeed.
With football, the goal is to win. People have figured out that the best way to win is with a quarterback, a center, a front line, some runners, some good catchers and some defensive players. You could not run a football game with a team full of quarterbacks, although that role is by far the most prestigious. The rules and play style of the game doesn’t allow for a team full of quarterbacks. Still, I’d wager that most people dream of being the star quarterback.
With the army, the goal is to win. Over time, people have come to realize that roles are necessary to achieve that goal. There is also a rigid leadership hierarchy that makes the job of role placement much easier. Still, most people dream of becoming an ace jet pilot or a tank commander. The job of grunt is not the most desired position. The grunt is still necessary, but I’d wager that most grunts would rather be doing something else.
Brain surgery? Sure it’s a team, but there is one leader and a bunch of followers. And again, the brain surgeon is the coveted title.
This is a recreational game, and should be treated as such. It is not real life. The majority of people want the DPS, since it’s the most tangible trait. This game gives them what they want. The trinity does not.
Ok. Get ready for it. Please name one human, objectives-driven, group activity that is not role-based in terms of how it is conceived and executed. It doesn’t matter that surgeons lead in an operating theater. Generals lead on a battlefield. What I noted is that humans always organize around roles when they set out to achieve objectives in groups.
Can you give me one activity where this is not so? And, you can read above on why real life matters in the creation of games—or anything else for that matter. Or you could ask yourself why we have melee and ranged roles in combat in games. I mean they are games right, not real life.
Team bowling
Team Darts
Team Golf
BridgeI just named four within a matter of seconds (sorry it took so long to get back to this. I was teaching a class.)
The fact that we have melee and ranged is a matter of personal preference. Some like to be up close and personal while doing damage, while others prefer to stand back with a bow. And then there are those that like to kill with magic. It’s no different than a personal preference with race. It’s a matter of aesthetics, or feel.
Bridge actually has role states that players alternate though. Consider the dummy. For the others consider the word “Team” in front of the activities. There is no actual team beyond the individual scores. It is, rather obviously, an individual sport where players are grouped artificially. This is actually a lot like GW2 where there are no roles beyond dps. Everyone does one thing and only the combined DPS matters. So, everything with a “Team” before it is not a team sport or what I have called a group activity—you have listed individual sports. Bridge is a team sport and follows a role based format.
BTW, wow, you missed my point entirely with melee and ranged. We don’t have melee and ranged combat because of personal preference. We have them precisely because they existed as archetypal forms of human combat throughout our history. You know large people with swords and maces with groups of archers behind them. People play them out of preference but that is not why they are present in games.
I have given you exactly what you asked for and you have dismissed them simply due to what you deem a group activity. I now think you are arguing for the sake of arguing. So I’ll say this…
If the trinity system is what someone wants, there are plenty of games that offer it. GW2 is not one of them, at least not in the context of the original post.
I personally like the fact that the game does not have the trinity system in place. I find it more a chore than it’s worth, and I’m glad I don’t have to be pigeon-holed into a role for the sake of a group.
Yes, humans have the capacity to learn from experience. My point is simply that humans always approach objectives in a group in a role-based manner, whether we’re talking the army, a sports team, or brain surgery. GW2 combat is not role-based. Could that be why humans are finding it unsatisfying?
That’s it in a nutshell. I’m not arguing for the trinity. I am questioning whether the lack of meaningful combat roles is a good idea given human behavior in groups everywhere else.
I disagree. As someone else pointed out, humans are by-and-large goal-driven and not role-driven. In most situations, the reward is the most important thing, regardless of how it’s derived. The roles are not done due to the desire to fill a role. They are done out of necessity to succeed.
With football, the goal is to win. People have figured out that the best way to win is with a quarterback, a center, a front line, some runners, some good catchers and some defensive players. You could not run a football game with a team full of quarterbacks, although that role is by far the most prestigious. The rules and play style of the game doesn’t allow for a team full of quarterbacks. Still, I’d wager that most people dream of being the star quarterback.
With the army, the goal is to win. Over time, people have come to realize that roles are necessary to achieve that goal. There is also a rigid leadership hierarchy that makes the job of role placement much easier. Still, most people dream of becoming an ace jet pilot or a tank commander. The job of grunt is not the most desired position. The grunt is still necessary, but I’d wager that most grunts would rather be doing something else.
Brain surgery? Sure it’s a team, but there is one leader and a bunch of followers. And again, the brain surgeon is the coveted title.
This is a recreational game, and should be treated as such. It is not real life. The majority of people want the DPS, since it’s the most tangible trait. This game gives them what they want. The trinity does not.
Ok. Get ready for it. Please name one human, objectives-driven, group activity that is not role-based in terms of how it is conceived and executed. It doesn’t matter that surgeons lead in an operating theater. Generals lead on a battlefield. What I noted is that humans always organize around roles when they set out to achieve objectives in groups.
Can you give me one activity where this is not so? And, you can read above on why real life matters in the creation of games—or anything else for that matter. Or you could ask yourself why we have melee and ranged roles in combat in games. I mean they are games right, not real life.
Team bowling
Team Darts
Team Golf
Bridge
I just named four within a matter of seconds (sorry it took so long to get back to this. I was teaching a class.)
The fact that we have melee and ranged is a matter of personal preference. Some like to be up close and personal while doing damage, while others prefer to stand back with a bow. And then there are those that like to kill with magic. It’s no different than a personal preference with race. It’s a matter of aesthetics, or feel.
Indeed!
Up to first page we go.P.S. Sticky dis already.
I had to look to see where this was. That is no good.
Yes, humans have the capacity to learn from experience. My point is simply that humans always approach objectives in a group in a role-based manner, whether we’re talking the army, a sports team, or brain surgery. GW2 combat is not role-based. Could that be why humans are finding it unsatisfying?
That’s it in a nutshell. I’m not arguing for the trinity. I am questioning whether the lack of meaningful combat roles is a good idea given human behavior in groups everywhere else.
I disagree. As someone else pointed out, humans are by-and-large goal-driven and not role-driven. In most situations, the reward is the most important thing, regardless of how it’s derived. The roles are not done due to the desire to fill a role. They are done out of necessity to succeed.
With football, the goal is to win. People have figured out that the best way to win is with a quarterback, a center, a front line, some runners, some good catchers and some defensive players. You could not run a football game with a team full of quarterbacks, although that role is by far the most prestigious. The rules and play style of the game doesn’t allow for a team full of quarterbacks. Still, I’d wager that most people dream of being the star quarterback.
With the army, the goal is to win. Over time, people have come to realize that roles are necessary to achieve that goal. There is also a rigid leadership hierarchy that makes the job of role placement much easier. Still, most people dream of becoming an ace jet pilot or a tank commander. The job of grunt is not the most desired position. The grunt is still necessary, but I’d wager that most grunts would rather be doing something else.
Brain surgery? Sure it’s a team, but there is one leader and a bunch of followers. And again, the brain surgeon is the coveted title.
This is a recreational game, and should be treated as such. It is not real life. The majority of people want the DPS, since it’s the most tangible trait. This game gives them what they want. The trinity does not.
(edited by TChalla.7146)
semantics……you know full well the point
Important distinction.
You can argue that you NEED food to live. You cannot argue that you NEED filet mignon and lobster every day to live.
When you conflate need with want, you reach the conclusion that the Trading Post makes thing too expensive. When you correctly identify needs and wants you realize that the Trading Post is your best friend.
This is a perfect reply……
The point being that nothing is required in this game. Thus justification using “required” as a basis is moot in this case. The only thing required is character creation so anything past that is optional.
Correct. Nothing is required in this game. Also, playing the TP is not required to enjoy the game or get anything in game.
So nothing is required to play required aspects of this game. That is sorta neither here nor there. Optional aspects however are rather relevant since they are pertinent to most everything in the game. Hence the debate at hand.
But it’s for all intents and purpose a free-enterprise system. Look at how it plays out.
1) There is the original seller who sells whatever they sell instantly for whatever order price is available. I think of those players (and I’m one) as a worker. This would be akin to being a farm-hand that gets paid for the amount of work they performed, and the rate of pay is set by others. They also pay a flat tax for their services when they sell this way.
2) There is the seller that believes their work was worth more than the rate of pay offered. I’ll call them freelancers. They decide to sell at a higher rate than what was otherwise a guaranteed paycheck. They will have to incur some upfront costs, since they are not accepting the rate of pay advertised, but they stand to make more money in doing so. It is a bit riskier as well, since there is no guarantee that they will be paid at all.
3) There is the payer. These are the corporate heads that decide the rate of pay for the workers. They incur the most risk, since they must shell out even money in the hopes that they can get a return on their investment. In essence, they pay the workers for their time and make money by doing so.
Here’s the beauty of the system. At some point in time, the system has to reach an equilibrium, since it could actually become more profitable to go out and be the worker than it is to be the payer, specifically when the payer sells wares above a certain threshold based on supply and demand.
I couldn’t think of any either—at all. And, I’m not comparing apples to eggs. I’m comparing human, objectives-oriented groups to human, objectives-oriented groups. As I mentioned, all aspects of gaming are modeled on human needs and behavior. Isn’t it logical that conceptions of combat would be modeled on IRL? Isn’t it interesting that IRL combat is role-based in terms of how it is conceived and executed.
At any rate, some find this interesting and instructive.
Gaming aspects aren’t modeled on human needs… they’re modeled more on tapping into the reward centers of the brain to trigger a quasi-addiction to the game. With trinity style combat the reward isn’t in the combat itself but instead with the lottery style payoff after the fight is over. I remember getting to a point where the fights were practically muscle memory and you hardly had to pay attention anymore. It wasn’t the fight that kept us going back, it was the chance at the next missing piece of loot. It was “all that work for nothing” if you didn’t get anything as opposed to “that was fun even though I didn’t get anything for the 20th time in a row”.
Games aren’t based on behavior, they’re designed to tap into behavior to keep you coming back. What I’ve found so far for me personally is that in GW2 I’m not going back for the loot but for the fights themselves instead, even after all this time.
Humans do things to meet perceived needs. As I mentioned in a previous post, human motivation is probably the most significant area of game design theory. Why do humans play games? What satisfies basic needs and motivates continued play? The answers here are things like “fantasy” for some people. They want to be a hero and they meet that need through a role-playing game. The need might be abnegation. They are burned out IRL and just want to bash some monsters to relax. So, your first sentence is just wrong. Human behavior not a factor? Ever wonder why we have ranged combat and melee combat in games? It’s because it’s how humans behave in combat.
But let me step back and step up to illustrate on another level what is going on here. Humans don’t create ex nihilo. We create after ourselves. Have you ever looked at a network topology and marveled at its resemblance to the human nervous system? Have you wondered why we have something like systems theory. Could it have anything to do with that fact that we are systems. Or, have you ever noticed from a aerial photograph that roadways look a lot like arteries with cells (in the form of vehicles) traveling them. And, satellite dishes look a lot (and function) like ears.
Who humans are in terms of experience, needs, behavior, etc. is central to what they create. And, it’s central to how their creations are received. If a game does not meet the perceived needs and expectations of humans it will not be successful. If I am creating a game (or anything actually) my approach is going to come from what it means to be a human and a human creator.
Here’s the thing though. Humans are also more than capable of looking at previous experiences and correcting those things that they thought were a mistake. In pretty much every single MMORPG made in the last ten years, there has been the trinity. And in every MMORPG made, the view of the trinity has been less than stellar to much of the player base. The creators of GW2, being human, looked at the trinity from those other games and decided that a new route was better.
It’s difficult to look at the MMORPGS that have the trinity and not notice the “LFG healer for [insert dungeon name]” issue. It’s there as plain as day, especially for those players that don’t belong to a large guild and feel the need to join in a pickup group to run a dungeon. Time and time again, the DPS players are left looking for either a healer or a tank, and sometimes both. And the wait times can be extensive.
How would it not be logical to gear a game more towards the DPS crowd and steer away from the trinity, given this information?
semantics……you know full well the point
Important distinction.
You can argue that you NEED food to live. You cannot argue that you NEED filet mignon and lobster every day to live.
When you conflate need with want, you reach the conclusion that the Trading Post makes thing too expensive. When you correctly identify needs and wants you realize that the Trading Post is your best friend.
This is a perfect reply……
The point being that nothing is required in this game. Thus justification using “required” as a basis is moot in this case. The only thing required is character creation so anything past that is optional.
Correct. Nothing is required in this game. Also, playing the TP is not required to enjoy the game or get anything in game.
semantics……you know full well the point
Actually, the point was valid. Even the pail can be acquired simply by playing the game and not buying from the Trading Post. It’s a matter of patience.
Remember candy corn 20 slot pails…impossible (realistically) to gather enough candy corn for it. 300 charged lodestones…how many years will this game last? GL gathering 300 silk per day everyday to not miss out on time gates……etc etc
It’s not hard to find places where the tp is needed. All one needs to do is look.
I had just started playing the game during the Halloween event, so I don’t remember the pail. As far as whether or not getting candy corn was difficult, I can’t answer, since I didn’t get much at all due to not knowing how to acquire it or for what it was used.
Here’s the funny thing… I don’t worry about time gates. I’ve been playing MMORPGS for at least 12 years, and in that time, I’ve never once worried about gear. Ever. Not even in WoW, when I did nothing but Battlegrounds for months. Has it made things difficult? Of course it has. Have I really cared? Nope. I get items when I get them. There is nothing in game for which I cannot wait. It’ll be there for me when I’m ready to get them.
Saying the TP is not required is pretty absurd imo… It is most certainly required if you want to accomplish even the most basic proficiency in the game.
I personally have no problem with flipping and speculating, but to argue that the TP isn’t required is certainly not one of the reasons why.
Personally I think there should be more skill based rewards, I don’t find it very fun for everything to be a show of how much money you have.
The TP is not required to play the game. It is a purely optional part of the content that makes playing the game MUCH more enjoyable.
If you are really opposed to the concept of free trade, you can play the game as a totally self-sufficient wilderness dweller. With that decision though, you will get to experience first hand why the division of labor is the foundation of all modern economies.
Note: “You” as used above refers to anyone who is opposed to free trade, not to the quoted user per se.
That’s like saying that hitting foes is optional to play the game. Yes you don’t have to hit foes, but if you want to attain a desired result most likely you’ll need to hit some foes. Some things in this game are simply not obtainable w/o use of the tp.
Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anything that cannot be acquired outside of the Trading Post. Care to name a few?
Oh… and before I get accused of trolling, I’ll say that I do not play the Trading Post market, though I do sell whatever I get in game there… usually for the low request prices. In essence, I probably feed the TP flippers, but I’m not one myself.
You mean outside of gem purchases, correct?
Yes… outside of gem purchases.
I enjoy it from time to time. I don’t do it regularly, but when I feel like doing it, it’s there.
I’m not exactly sure why people feel so adamantly about getting rid of this, really. If one doesn’t like it, one doesn’t have to participate. Seems simple to me.
Saying the TP is not required is pretty absurd imo… It is most certainly required if you want to accomplish even the most basic proficiency in the game.
I personally have no problem with flipping and speculating, but to argue that the TP isn’t required is certainly not one of the reasons why.
Personally I think there should be more skill based rewards, I don’t find it very fun for everything to be a show of how much money you have.
The TP is not required to play the game. It is a purely optional part of the content that makes playing the game MUCH more enjoyable.
If you are really opposed to the concept of free trade, you can play the game as a totally self-sufficient wilderness dweller. With that decision though, you will get to experience first hand why the division of labor is the foundation of all modern economies.
Note: “You” as used above refers to anyone who is opposed to free trade, not to the quoted user per se.
That’s like saying that hitting foes is optional to play the game. Yes you don’t have to hit foes, but if you want to attain a desired result most likely you’ll need to hit some foes. Some things in this game are simply not obtainable w/o use of the tp.
Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anything that cannot be acquired outside of the Trading Post. Care to name a few?
Oh… and before I get accused of trolling, I’ll say that I do not play the Trading Post market, though I do sell whatever I get in game there… usually for the low request prices. In essence, I probably feed the TP flippers, but I’m not one myself.
I’m certain that I have gotten over 1000 of the gifts just from playing Snowball Mayhem for the past 3 weeks. I did get both back recipes too.
I played way too much Snowball Mayhem apparently. Now it’s back to leveling my first character to level 80.
thread should be locked/deleted, its pointless junk compared to other closed/deleted threads
No it’s not pointless. It’s pure genius. You just can’t appreciate the shear amount of philosophical beauty in this thread.
Philosophical? I dont see anything philosophical here. If I want to see philosophical stuff I would read Schopenhauer and co.
Then I was wrong. You simply don’t see the philosophical beauty of the original post. It’s there… I promise.
Watching that video actually makes me want to spend time in hot join doing that.
I’m sorry… it’s just THAT funny.
I picked up the nodes for the following reasons:
1. I want my home instance to have all possible home instance things, since that’s the closest we are going to get to player housing.
2. On days where I want to quickly get a daily in, I can now hit 75% of my gatherer without moving.
3. With potential Ascended Jewelcrafting right around the corner, it cannot hurt to have some extra ore available.
Those are the conveniences I get from owning this item, and to me they far outweigh the $10.00 it costs to own them.
It took me about 15 minutes to earn $10.00 in real life. I’d say that spending 15 minutes on this today will result in many, many hours of time saved on my daily going forward making this a no-brainer buy item.
I think this pretty well sums up why they’re priced within acceptable limits. I personally find time much more valuable than money, so if the items save me time, I’ll buy it.
It doesn’t hurt that it is also something to stick in the home instance, since there’s not much of any reason to go there otherwise.
I try and read the forums daily and whenever there is a change players threaten to leave, jump ship to another game, wait for the next hyped game or take a break.
When culling was still an issue in the game and you couldnt even see the creatures or players you were supposed to be in combat with, i stopped playing.
This was Xmas 2012, and i didnt return to the game until 10 months later.
The game has no sub, you lose nothing by taking a break.
This also means that “threats of leaving” have zero impact on the devs.
So if this game isnt for you right now, Take A Break (and stop with the hollow threats).
You mean I can’t come on here to complain and threaten to quit?
That’s it! I quit!
thread should be locked/deleted, its pointless junk compared to other closed/deleted threads
No it’s not pointless. It’s pure genius. You just can’t appreciate the shear amount of philosophical beauty in this thread.
Is it bad that I laughed throughout that entire video?
probably a negligible detail OP chose to omit: Tera offers this feature ONLY on the few dedicated open PvP servers and you actively choose to play there from the very beginning of your character to cap.
Tera is not GW2.
exactly why not, if you want open world GvG go play tera on a open PvP server, no need to ruin it for ppl who don’t want to see any mention on PvP at all in a PvE open world.
I don’t see how Open world GvG would ruin GW2. So Tera is the only game which is supposed to have Open world GvG and no other games?
oh there are plenty, i just never participate in them.
and how would it ruin GW2?
i never said the entire GW2 game, i said the PvE open world.
i choose not to play PvP and i love to stay as far away as possible from it, the reason why it works in other games is because they have dedicated PvP servers, GW2 doesn’t.the only way you will ever see this is when Anet decides to add PvP servers, till then you can hold your breath for a long time.
I’m not sure you read my post. GvG will be for the guilds in active Guild War. Players that aren’t in a Guild War won’t be affected. If you don’t want to be in a Guild War, then you don’t. GW2 don’t need PvP servers for Open world GvG, as the Guild War is optional and not forced upon you as a player.
ok, then how do you prevent a GvG from ruining my end of the game’s enjoyment, how do you make sure i don’t see them, how do you make sure they don’t bother me, how do you make sure they don’t kill events, etc…
you’re only thinking about one side, think about the other side to for a change.Read my posts above and you’ll know the answer. I bet you have the answer yourself but you don’t bother to care, because you’re full of yourself. Sitting high on your high horse. “how do you make sure i don’t see them” can’t take this line serious. Your whole post becomes a trollpost. Can’t really argue with a troll, unless i troll myself, and i’m not going to troll.
Throw down the gauntlet and immediately come out swinging. Is that your idea of defending your idea? I seriously doubt anyone can take your idea seriously if that is how you’re going to respond as soon as someone disagrees with you.
Having said that, here’s my thoughts on your proposal. I don’t like it. When I’m out doing PvE tasks, the last thing I want to see is a bunch of players beating the tar out of each other. When I’m in the PvE world, I’m working on PvE things and trying to stomp out the PvE enemies. The last thing I want to see while I’m out doing whatever I’m doing is “lol get gud nub.” And before you say “that doesn’t happen,” I can tell you I’ve seen it. It does happen. I don’t like it and I don’t want to see it out in the open world. There’s a place for that, and it’s not out in the open world.
Simple.
That’s not my only response to people in this thread who disagrees. Might look above to all the others i’ve given an answer to. It’s pretty tiring to answer the same things over and over. Also his post was full of troll.
So you assume people will write immature comments like “lol get gud nub” only because there’s Open world GvG. I find that interesting but wrong. Sure, there will probably be kiddos with immature behavior in the game, but they exist in other areas of the game as well. Like in dungeons, SPvP, PvE etc. If you find them annoying and your feelings got hurt you can always report them and hope ArenaNet give them a warning.
I’m assuming that immaturity will happen because in every single game I’ve played where open PvP was prevalent, it *did happen. So it is a very valid assumption.
To be honest, I shouldn’t have to report rude behavior. I shouldn’t have to deal with it in the open world… period. My feelings don’t get hurt. I just don’t want to see it. It ruins the PvE game play. It’s simple, really.
Here’s one good reason why I hope dueling is never in the open world.
I played WoW, and they had the duel system. And in certain areas of the game, you would be spammed repeatedly to duel. You’d decline, and it would almost instantly reappear. And if you continued to decline, you’d wind up with a ton of colorful whispers about your playing ability, your mother, your sexual orientation, etc.
No thank you. I’ll pass.
probably a negligible detail OP chose to omit: Tera offers this feature ONLY on the few dedicated open PvP servers and you actively choose to play there from the very beginning of your character to cap.
Tera is not GW2.
exactly why not, if you want open world GvG go play tera on a open PvP server, no need to ruin it for ppl who don’t want to see any mention on PvP at all in a PvE open world.
I don’t see how Open world GvG would ruin GW2. So Tera is the only game which is supposed to have Open world GvG and no other games?
oh there are plenty, i just never participate in them.
and how would it ruin GW2?
i never said the entire GW2 game, i said the PvE open world.
i choose not to play PvP and i love to stay as far away as possible from it, the reason why it works in other games is because they have dedicated PvP servers, GW2 doesn’t.the only way you will ever see this is when Anet decides to add PvP servers, till then you can hold your breath for a long time.
I’m not sure you read my post. GvG will be for the guilds in active Guild War. Players that aren’t in a Guild War won’t be affected. If you don’t want to be in a Guild War, then you don’t. GW2 don’t need PvP servers for Open world GvG, as the Guild War is optional and not forced upon you as a player.
ok, then how do you prevent a GvG from ruining my end of the game’s enjoyment, how do you make sure i don’t see them, how do you make sure they don’t bother me, how do you make sure they don’t kill events, etc…
you’re only thinking about one side, think about the other side to for a change.Read my posts above and you’ll know the answer. I bet you have the answer yourself but you don’t bother to care, because you’re full of yourself. Sitting high on your high horse. “how do you make sure i don’t see them” can’t take this line serious. Your whole post becomes a trollpost. Can’t really argue with a troll, unless i troll myself, and i’m not going to troll.
Throw down the gauntlet and immediately come out swinging. Is that your idea of defending your idea? I seriously doubt anyone can take your idea seriously if that is how you’re going to respond as soon as someone disagrees with you.
Having said that, here’s my thoughts on your proposal. I don’t like it. When I’m out doing PvE tasks, the last thing I want to see is a bunch of players beating the tar out of each other. When I’m in the PvE world, I’m working on PvE things and trying to stomp out the PvE enemies. The last thing I want to see while I’m out doing whatever I’m doing is “lol get gud nub.” And before you say “that doesn’t happen,” I can tell you I’ve seen it. It does happen. I don’t like it and I don’t want to see it out in the open world. There’s a place for that, and it’s not out in the open world.
Simple.
First, thank you OP for creating this positive thread. Too much negativity going around.
Second, I agree whole-heartedly with the thoughts in the original post. I am thoroughly enjoying the game, and am spending probably more time in the game than I should, which says a lot for the game, since I’m rather picky on game-play. This is the first MMORPG I’ve played in a while that didn’t feel like a WoW clone. Kudos for that.
Lastly, ignore the negativity that has cropped up so far in this topic, and ignore the negativity that will surely follow my post here. You should have a place where you can be proud of what you have accomplished, which to me is a lot.
I’ll make an argument more valid and not just being snarky (which I have to apologize because I was being snarky at the time).
Using the Shadow Behemoth as the example, which can legitimately be done at level 15, you are technically correct that there is a bit of leveling that you have to complete before you do it. However, getting one character to level 15 (because you only need one level 15 character to reach level 15 to do it) can’t really be considered a grind, since if you don’t plan on doing any leveling in the game, why are you playing in the first place? And if the answer is PvP, you probably wouldn’t be doing the Shadow Behemoth anyway.
So… there is still no grind to do that content.
This is why they put encounters like the Shadow Behemoth in starting areas.
I still have to get to level 15. Even though 99% of that encounter is stand in one place and abuse the 1 key.
Yep, you’re still missing the point. You might not personally like the combat, but compared to combat in most MMOs, this is like a breath of fresh air. You’re not stuck standing in one place casting, you’re actively moving and dodging and you know, when the manifesto was made that wasn’t very common. This is why Colin said we want to change the way people view combat.
Lots of people love the combat in this game.
Those who don’t? Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But it doesn’t make the manifesto a untrue.
I especially like how you skipped over the getting to level 15 to do it part and went straight for the combat.
Indeed a nice job. But do follow through on all points of a post, not just the one you can defend the best.
And yes. I do like how for 90% of the game’s content, I can stack and repeatedly hit my 1 key and then 2 – 5 as a refresher every 30s. And when I see red circles beneath me, I double tap my movement keys to dodge. AND THEN! Back to beloved stacking and 1 key serial abuse. It has revolutionized combat so much. Because sometimes, I can even hit 1 and AFK for a few minutes and answer a text, type an email, check Facebook, or even make a phone call. Free my hands.
I didn’t realize that you had to be level 15 to join in on the Shadow Behemoth. Does that boss lock you out if you’re below level 15? If not, then why couldn’t you do it before then?
So, the lush carrot node in the snow bothers you and breaks immersion, but the veteran ettin guarding it does not?
It’s a vegetarian veteran ettin… or a vegeteran ettin… or a vegettin.
“Me no like ’em meat. Me like ’em carrots. Mmmmmm.”
The problem is that there exists this middle group that wants to feel hardcore, sitting around in BiS gear, but doesn’t actually want to be hardcore. These players play like casuals, a dungeon here, a dungeon there, some mapping, not really doing anything focused or hardcore with their time, but they want to be dressed in the best gear. Mind you, the gear they’re currently in most likely far more than enough for any content they’ve done or ever think of doing. That’s not the point for them though. The point for them is that they no longer feel hardcore, even though they never really were hardcore.
This right here is beautiful.
I personally like the necromancer spell effects and animations. But at the end of the day, that’s just MY opinion, and yours will probably vary.
Just out of curiosity, wouldn’t teaming an NA server with a EU server cut out most of the night capping?
For example: (Using two random servers)
Team up Anvil Rock (NA) with Borlis Pass (EU) and have them fight against two other NA/EU team matchups. I could be wrong, but I think that would lessen off-peak times by a lot, since the time zone differences would allow for higher peak times overall.
You could even look at the populations of the two servers being tied together and have one well-populated server teamed with a lesser populated server.
I’m just thinking out loud, mind you.
I expect nothing. However, I hope for (in no particular order):
New class weapons
Housing and/or guild halls
Markable maps
They don’t really exist. It’s only a dream.
Mustn’t… hit… page… 2…
[bump]
“Oh, and of course: “Dragons are comming, I promise!” xD
No… “Winter is coming.”
This would actually be a very welcome addition to the game. It would take a fair amount of coding, but all-in-all, would be very useful for those of us that like to keep track of things.
“How do you feel about GW2 right now?”
I’m loving it. Absolutely loving it. I have yet to run out of things to do. And since I’m an altoholic, I don’t see how I’ll run out of things to do for quite some time.
I don’t find the game grindy at all, especially since I refuse to think of any game as a job. I play the way I want to play and don’t focus on “I must have this” or “I don’t have that… I’m behind.” I play for the fun of it, and I find the game very fun.
I don’t see making the ascended gear unbound as being a bad thing. In fact, I think it would be a good way of giving those of us (maybe I’m the only one) that enjoy crafting something to do and make money doing it. I understand there are a couple of crafts that can be profitable, but why should it be limited to just the two?
I can also see that there are those that don’t enjoy crafting. This would help alleviate the feelings of “grind.”
If it’s just a money sink they want, I can see ways of making it a money sink and still allowing crafters to do what they enjoy doing. It wouldn’t be that difficult really.
One the idea of invisible walls, I don’t think of them so much as an easy answer to the problem of getting to places you’re not supposed to be. Honestly, I think they’re a necessity, and most if not all games use them… some more than others.
I also think the zone instancing is fine as it is. It eases the load on servers, and there’s a nice break to let you know that you have exited one level of area and entered another.
As far as the AI goes, I also can’t think of a game that didn’t use the “more HPs to make bosses more difficult.” AI (artificial intelligence) is just that… artificial. There would be no way to write code complex enough to allow a game-controlled creature to act even half as intelligent as a player-controlled creature. There are too many variables with which to deal. They can add a few parts to make them feel more sentient, but in the end, it almost has to be more hit points. Like I said, it’s too many factors.
With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.
Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.
The current model is focused on gem-sales. Thats what I am pretty much complaining about (or the effect that has).
So how to then finance it.. Change the model to sell expansion. How I then support it?
Buying expansions.
So pretty much this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/VIP-Membership/page/9#post3476488
Here’s why I prefer the micro-transaction model to both the subscription model or the expansion model:
1) When I played a subscription MMORPG, some part of me felt like I should be playing so many hours a day to justify paying the monthly subscription. It stopped feeling like something I wanted to do to something I had to do, and eventually, I burned out and cancelled. With the micro-transaction model, I can play for an hour a month if I want and don’t have to worry about it.
2) With the expansion model, expansions have to come out regularly, and they have to be filled with content… to the point where it’s almost a brand new game. With that, the company that puts out the product are pretty much under a hard timeline, to keep money rolling in. This leads itself to shoddy programming and bugs of all sorts coming out without being properly tested. It also lends itself to game imbalances because proper time wasn’t given to work out the details of what was over or under powered.
3) With an expansion model (and usually subscription model), there will come a point in time where level increases are part of the expansion. If you don’t buy the expansion, you can’t level beyond a certain point. I don’t know about anyone else, but that model has a “pay to win” feel to it, since if I don’t feel like buying the expansion, I’m levels behind.
Now, with the micro-transaction model, I have the option of paying for those items I want and skipping the items I don’t find worth it. This is, of course, assuming that the items available for purchase don’t give unfair advantages, thereby forcing you to buy them. If it’s cosmetic or a convenience item, I’m all for it.
In the end, it’s all about opinion. However, I personally don’t see how using the micro-transaction model hurts the game in any way. It’s all about what one feels valuable enough to purchase, and not about being forced to purchase that which one does not even want.
TL;DR… In my opinion, micro-transactions are fine as they are.
(edited by TChalla.7146)
As a player that is new and whose highest level character is level 52, I can say this…
The 3 gold I spent on the achievement wasn’t missed.
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