Guild Wars 2

tas.6310:

Lol we didn’t need 20 omega’s to cap your BL, we did it to have fun. We stood in garry destroying the walls and doors on the outer just for fun. We did what you saw because one of our very public commanders is taking a break for a while… good luck Dtc Justice.

Stone.6751:

It wasn’t hard to tell that we weren’t making a serious attempt at capping all your keeps/towers. We stood around and took down like 4 destroyable outer walls at Bay, again at inner, then we did it again at the tower taking down an outer wall and then trying for more before someone capped the tower. Even when we got to Garrison we worked on taking down multiple outer walls before we did a banzi inside the keep.

Most of the fun was had playing around in the golems before we even moved out. WE had a lot of laughs screwing around. I’m sure there are some people who got some great pictures that I expect to see posted.

There are always people that act like a zerg that must have queued the map and 20 omega golems were not a serious attempt at taking something. The shroud of “fun” is not fooling anybody. Having fun and making a serious attempt are not mutually exclusive. Your plan to have fun probably didn’t involve wiping. You probably didn’t intend to send your commander off with failure.

Posts like yours always come off as pathetic to me. Losing isn’t nearly as bad as trying to make terrible excuses for it. Everybody loses sometimes, but only a select few insist they weren’t trying after the fact.

Tots.3056:

In case you don’t have time to catch up on the forum war, I’ve got a play by play here for ya.

BP forum warrior uses Zerg mentality.
HoD forum warrior uses ragemoar.
BP forum warrior ignores embarrassing defeats, points out scoreboard.WINRAR
DR forum warrior deploys Gab/Oozo.
HoD forum warrior counters with PAXA/KoM defense.
BP forum warriors start stacking post count.
DR forum warriors execute logic.
BP forum warriors are confused.
BP forum warriors hurt themselves in confusion.
HoD forum warriors use “kitten please, 5 man swag”
DR forum warriors use run.
Got away safely.

You are the hero this thread needs, but doesn’t deserve.

For what it’s worth GT did run into 5 NoQQ in Borlis Pass bordelands tonight. I believe we fought 5 AD too but I didn’t make special note of the guild name or tag at the time. I can’t comment on how rare such a sight is but they do run 5 man groups. However I can confirm laughable use of mass invisibility from NoQQ.

I just realized that SF is the unlucky server for getting this match-up. I just saw PAXA and KoM on the same map, and SF has to fight these guys. This is usually where a joke would go, but nothing is funny about what they do to people. I really do feel sorry for you guys on SF.

If your only issue with a thief is that they don’t die, you should just leave them alone. If the thief is using all his initiative to survive, you are unlikely to kill it alone. If the thief is actually willing to take some risks to kill you, you have a solid chance of killing him. Most thieves I run into are very killable solo because they aren’t complete cowards.

Black powder + heartseeker is really the only way for thieves to stealth repeatedly or for long durations that you can’t stop fairly easily. If he is spamming black powder and heartseeker, hope he is too kitteny for his own good. If he is using cloak and dagger, dodge it. Save updraft for a last desperate effort to survive, to interrupt hide in shadow or knock the thief out of shadow refuge. Even competent thieves can miss a dodge if you lightning flash into refuge and follow it with updraft fast enough. If I actually succeed with updraft on the heal or refuge, it’s gg 9 times out of 10.

Regeneration is actually very strong with some healing power investment because it will rival or exceed what some main heals do over the same time period.

I have 753 healing power with full stacks of life, and I have only one piece of gear that provides healing power without an upgrade. 700+ is only from traits, runes, a sigil and one celestial earring.

Glyph of elemental harmony= 4894+(.75 * 753)=5458
Regeneration= 130 + (.125 * 753)= 224 per second

Glyph cooldown is 25 seconds, so it will heal for 5458 over 25 seconds. Regeneration over that same 25 seconds would heal for 5600. Every 25 seconds of regen is an extra cast of my main heal; regeneration is good. While you are thinking that 200 hp per second isn’t worth the investment, your enemies are already on the forum demanding that eles be nerfed because they are immortal.

I see 23 “skill recharging.” You do realize that flame ram skills don’t cost initiative, right?

Grevender.9235:

no matter how good the player is, if classes are balanced then 1vs2 any must lose.

I’m going to assume you mean all players are of equal skill, so I’ll avoid the obvious scenario of one enemy being an up arrowed thief that only uses pistol auto-attack. Classes being balanced doesn’t mean the builds each one can run is a fair fight against all possible builds others can run. A single condition necro should beat two pure melee enemies that lack condition removal. Every profession can run into an outnumbered situation, but still have an advantage that evens the odds just based on what builds the enemies use. Everyone can run into a 1vs1 and be at a large disadvantage based on builds. This is going to become more true over time because Anet appears to want more counter pick skills and traits.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Due to the various and constant heals this build has to get out of any possible tight 1v1 situation the ele can encounter, the mesmer can’t emphasize on bringing him down.

Your bias is showing. Mesmers are just as if not harder to bring down because of their teleports, stealth and more frequent invulnerability. I’m sorry that a low hp and low armor profession that is always visible, can’t instantly displace itself with phase retreat (which can be used while stunned btw) every 6-10 seconds and doesn’t have an invul on a 10 second cooldown can heal and remove conditions very well. I’m sorry that when an ele allocates nearly every trait point and utility slot towards defense, they are allowed to make mistakes without exploding instantly.

Plus, the mesmer won at least once (I didn’t watch the whole thing). The mesmer interrupted ether renewal and it was over. Ether renewal did get nerfed because the inability to use it in mist form gives eles one less way to ensure it has full effect. The healing from healing ripple and similar traits is balanced in wvw where people are running around with 100+ crit damage.

I don’t understand how anybody can prefer the new one. The old was so energetic and full of life. It didn’t matter how many enemies wanted my ele dead. Didn’t matter how much death and destruction was around. Nothing would get her down; she just skipped away not giving a kitten. Now, she looks like an old lady out for a morning jog because the doctor recommended it. Plus, Anet didn’t even change the combat strafing animation to match the new one. Now, we have characters with completely different movement for no apparent reason.

What am I doing? Still winning most fights because most players are garbage and I am not. Running away is irrelevant because I simply win. Mist form nerf? Please, I’ve been using that to spike and revive more than to save myself for months. Also, I complain a lot on my guild’s vent because I get a 40 second cooldown quite frequently when I am trying to attack an enemy.

Boomslang.4352:

Saw a lot of D/D eles giving away bags in WvW. I guess they were testing if they can still facetank 5 people, kill three, MF-RtL away then double-back to kill the remaining two.

I hope they learned that they’re mortals now just like everyone else and learn to adapt.

Case and point. Any solo player that kills 3 enemies in a group of 5 is still a god compared to the people he was fighting regardless of him dying or not. If that ele is now mortal, his victims are insects.

innocent ouarior.1954:

3- Like most said they made RTL such that you will use it more to charge and less to escape. Its a good change.

This is just not true. In wvw, I use rtl to try and close a gap larger than 1500, its current bugged range, quite frequently. On the 30th, trying to close a gap on a target more than 1200 range away will result in not hitting and double the cooldown despite the fact that I wasn’t trying to disengage, the intended target of the nerf. What makes any of you think this will make it a more popular chasing tool in any format?

How can so many people just ignore such an obvious flaw in this cooldown condition? How can so many people defend something they haven’t even thought about or comprehended?

TheGuy.3568:

The reason I think this will kill roaming is that it will just make more sense to roam on another class.

I am not saying DD ele will be unplayable but with the other viable options that will be further enhanced with buffs how could a rational player not jump class?

I’ve actually been thinking this myself. I’m still going to play ele because I doubt this nerf will change my strong preference for the profession. However, I can’t help but think I’m going to be playing an underdog on the 30th. If I’m going to have pretty low tier mobility with moderate damage and top tier sustained, I’m basically going to be a guardian with less group utility. Guardians may be bottom tier in mobility, but the difference between low and bottom only matters when the results are different. If I can’t successfully chase people down, run away or get where I need to be in time, I might as well be on a guardian.

PistolWhip.2697:

Yeah, Thief is so favoured by Devs. Getting all those nerfs, lucky kittens. Having more nerfs then any of the other classes combined (this is true, look it up), makes them a sure-shot of favouritism.

First of all, nobody is going to go through every patch and count the buffs/nerfs for every profession. Anyone that does that is just sad. I’m just going to assume you’re right. However, the thief playstyle itself has never been the target of a nerf.

Name me one other instance of an entire style of play being significantly hindered for any other profession? I’m not saying this is going to kill ele roaming and small group play, but it is a very large blow to it.

Plus, this nerf is dumb as hell for wvw. Mesmers have a utility that allows an army to bypass an entire layer of keep defenses, and that’s ok. Mesmers can reduce the weakness, slow speed, of the cheesiest siege in the game, golems. Mesmers can faceroll kite with their 5 second cooldown teleport that can used while stunned. 5 second cooldown psuedo-stunbreak on a weapon is fine, but eles taking 3 stunbreak utilities (something every profession can do) is OP. Thieves can stealth permanently even without culling. Not only is perma stealth ok, but they are reverting the revealed debuff to 3 seconds. If they aren’t invisible, they can move faster than any other profession. Anyone that claims ele is faster is a liar because they catch up to me unless they’re sitting on dual pistols. Warriors can shave 60% or more of your hp off with one attack that doesn’t even require a setup. D/D ele is simply not OP in wvw compared to what other professions can do. 1vs1 fights with competent players of other professions are always close for me.

However, Eles moving fast every 20 seconds is too OP. Me getting to a supply camp just in time to contest the cap and fight for it is OP. Investigating a keep with white swords faster is OP. My gap closer having it’s normal cooldown even when my target is more than 1200 range away is OP. Only thieves are allowed to have a good chance of escaping from groups while roaming alone.

Do not reply to this guy. He is just mad because he couldn’t catch me even though he had no extra utility skills to catch fast enemies and doesn’t know how to chill with the steal skill. All the traits and utilties an ele needs to avoid so many enemies (almost always bad enemies) should just crumble before basilisk venom and surprise attack alone. Plus, he plays a thief, and he’s complaining about enemies running away.

Kaos.9162:

Yeah, so unfair using game mechanics everyone has access to. Who does that?

Yes, is is extremely unfair when guilds like SPCA, XOXO and PAXA run around with buffs. These guys run around in good groups filled with good players running good builds. These are the types of guys that do not have much issue in the vast majority of fair fights. I only stated that like a fact because they have some better players than me and I do alright. A large part of the point and fun in pretty much any game is in the challenge it provides and skill it requires; using buffs lowers both of those. What’s the fun in making it so good and close fights aren’t as close as they would have been? What skill does it take to nearly half conditions applied to you because you farmed some nodes or used the trading post?

It would be one thing if XOXO, SPCA and PAXA were the type of players that needed an extra edge, but they aren’t. Who cares if 98% of people in WvW use buffs? A lot of those people need an extra edge because they’re trash. I beat most people I fight anyway, but I should make the game less amusing by making all those fights easier? Every time I run into someone good I should take some of the fun away by making the fight easier? kitten that. Call buffs smart, fair or whatever. I’ll be the idiot that handicaps himself for better fights.

I’m probably not going to debate the subject beyond this post because I doubt any replies will be worth a response. I just hope I explained things better to some people.

pmnt.4067:

Kardiamond.6952:

Yeah, let’s just give Elementalist the engineer unique abilities of using kit.

Should Engineer have Attunement then?

They don’t need to because the kits are superior to attunements (at least on paper, not considering the actual skills). Compare an elementalist and a 4 kit engineer:

• Both have 4 weapon bars (from attunements vs kits)

• 1 heal + 3 utilities (6-9 on elementalist, F1-F4 on engineer)

• 4 “weapon switches” (F1-F4 on elementalist, 6-9 on engineer)

• Engineers have only 1 second cooldown until they can switch back to the same kit (9-15 seconds on ele)

• Engineers have a fifth weapon bar from … weapons.

(yay, trolling with facts)

You’re ignoring the fact that engineer is the only profession that has to sacrifice a utility slot for a weapon swap. Every kit that they use is something that could have been a condition removal, stun break, or whatever. Simply having attunements has no opportunity cost at all.

Honestly, people need to stop thinking that conjures need a buff; they need to be removed from the game. The entire idea of conjures is just stupid. Why would a profession with 20 weapon want more weapon skills? If the 20 that you already have don’t do pretty much everything you need, those skills need buffs. That’s why everybody uses daggers. Daggers do nearly everything you need while the other weapons are missing basic functionality. Plus, the ele is missing some utility types that every profession has. Ele is the only profession with no viable support utilities at all. Even thieves have shadow refuge and the option to trait venoms for support, but all we have is glyph of renewal, which is pretty terrible. How about some “conjure support effect” instead of “conjure mostly redundant and underpowered skills that make you not an elementalist .”

KyoHanakaze.8145:

Oh, Sororita, you POOR, POOR thing. That’s one of the best eles on the server. O_O and GT is probably one of the only guilds I’d count as being better or equal in PvP to VLK :P

I’m just wondering whether you’re confusing the two female charr eles in GT or my guildmate already has a rep.

Protip: The ele that has been around for months will be the best looking character of all time (so I would not wear a mask) with the golden title. Also, you will almost never see me with consumable buffs.

Sororita.3465:

ARM.3912:

Sororita.3465:

do u guys really have to pair up? GT is way too good.

GT is hiding behind PAXA because ARM is taking out GT’s zergs too often. They got skurd

indeed, sire.

You’re mocking ARM, right? Surely, such a trash ele/troll is only worthy of contempt.

Ungood.3054:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

There’s no point to comparing the Kaineng that was in tier 8 for months to the post-migration Kaineng that plowed through 4 other tiers just as badly as tier 7.

You’re right. I but am comparing POST-Migration Kain across all the Tiers it stomped. IE: Week 52 to Week 1

Lets look at that shall we:

Week 52: This was after Kain received it’s Powerful forces, after War machine joined them. This is Post-Migration Kain.
Kain: 501
FC: 48
ET: 38

The very next week… This is the same Kain that was in Tier 8, just last week. Week 52.

Week 1:
Kain: 548
GoM: 36
HoD: 26

See that. T7 did worse then T8, against the same opponent. But then again that has been what T7 has always done, always done worse then T8 against the same opponents.

Look at DR’s numbers:

Week: 49: Tier 8
DR: 378
FC: 124
Kain: 109

Week 50: Tier 7
DR (Same server that was in T8 last week): 532
SF: 41
HoD: 39

Just been the nature of T7 to be less then T8, because we have to work harder to get out of this hole.

Week 1:
FC: 215
SF: 211
ET: 189

Note: SF had been doing better then HoD for quite some time, and just had a bad week before Kain pulled out of T8 or else it would have been HoD in T8 just the same. Luck or they kitten of GoM when GoM got a surge of players. But really HoD was not doing better then SF and SF got a surge of players in week 3, which.. HoD has been showing rather dismal and constant numbers, so, SF today has far more manpower then the SF that used to be in T7.

I can do this too.

Week 40
HoD:152
JQ:346
ET:126

Week 42
HoD:19
Blackgate:615
ET:16

Sweet Jesus, would you look at that. ET always does worse than HoD. Let’s assume that nothing on the Henge of Denravi ever changes, but ET has lost too many players that wanted to transfer out of the tier 8 trap. Clearly, ET is nothing but a pve server now. ET shows very dismal and constant numbers. I know this because I can google wvw scores; I don’t have to actually be on the server or see their lack of numbers firsthand. I also don’t need to consider more recent things like how close the tier 7 match is or how each server in tier 7 hasn’t had perfectly consistent performance every week.

All the threads of tier 8 servers complaining are annoying, but justified. However, basing your arguments regarding which server should move to tier 8 on nothing but old wvw scores and guesses is just moronic.

Shiver.5903:

We play for 1st, we pressure the strongest server all the time, but if you go all out on us ignoring NSP all the while, we sometimes will go all out on you as payback.

If the two bottom servers always fight over scraps, the 1st strong server gets easy wins. Why hand them the victory on a silver platter? Make them work for it. That was my point, and still is.

For the matchup to be challenging for everyone, all three servers should push for 1st place. And that stands for pretty much any game you play, when someone fly away with the lead, you don’t help him usually.

That’s my opinion, I respect yours.

Who exactly is this “we” you speak for? I see GoM attacking us while we’re fighting NSP all the time. We were fighting over wildcreek earlier, and GoM came to fight us instead of attacking klovan or something. Some Gom also made a rather pathetic attempt at AP and orgewatch. I was with the group that just took most of nsp borderlands, and some gom (no idea how many) were just around taking hod’s camps camps instead of going for nsp’s suff. This “we” you speak of isn’t your server as a whole. Some of you people make it sound like gom would never attack any of hod’s structures if we never attacked gom.

Also, I’m pretty sure that “playing for first” is mathematically impossible for hod at this point in the week. Hod is coming in third this week. I’m sorry that we aren’t particularly picky about which of the other two servers come in first. Frankly, I consider it a bigger victory when Hod’s actions cause complaining on the forums. If gom really valued winning the week above all, they wouldn’t be attacking hod just because we attack you. Attacking nsp would almost always be better because every structure taken would deprive the leader points, and hod would be more likely to gang up on nsp with you. Gom has a legit chance to win, but you all need to deprive nsp of points. Gom is playing for second every single time they get kitten over an hod attack or see hod as an easy target.

Edit: These censors are ridiculous. The combination of “butt” & “hurt” is apparently too much for impressionable minds.

I just want to give props to the GoM that were held up in the HoD hills lord room. I especially enjoyed the two rams at the entrance. I’m glad you guys didn’t just abandon the keep. I’m really tired of reclaiming things with pvdoor.

Literally, this is the worst wvw thread of all time (Yes, past, present and future). I’ll have to be much more judicious about what I read and respond to in our future threads.

@ HackerTeivospy

Your post really makes me want to kill you. I think it’s the fact that you seem so full of yourself about winning, but you use buffs. If you were really so sure of yourself, you wouldn’t feel the need to give yourself further advantages. If you were really looking for good fights you wouldn’t be making every fight easier on yourself on top of playing an admittedly easy profession. I won’t be online for roughly 11 or 12 hours, but I’m going to contact you for a fight tonight, tomorrow or whenever I catch you online. Decline the challenge and you are a kitten. I hope I don’t disappoint.

Wreckdum.8367:

There should be more aiming and focusing of individuals and less dropping bombs on zergs. Would provide so much more depth to large group fights. You actually would have to learn to fight classes instead of masses. <—-Dr Seuss baby.

So there should be more use of ineffective tactics to deal with the current situation? People won’t start focusing on one person specifically just because aoe takes another hit. Aoe would have to be absolutely butchered for you to get what you want. The true solution to your problem is to transfer to a less zergy tier.

freaktong.8169:

I do feel concern for those who don’t play d/d bunker build (aka daphoenix build). Though the problem is that most eles I’ve encountered are indeed d/d bunkers and they’re almost impossible for my warrior, engineer and necro.

If updates continue to look like this recent one, the problem will only get worse.

I don’t run a full bunker build, but I am primarily defensive. This update doesn’t really hurt me that much. 5 second longer wait for rtl? I have 3 stunbreakers, mist form, lightning flash and cleansing fire, in the event that I am caught. Plus, I use the reduced cantrip cooldown trait, so I don’t have to be quite as judicious in their use. I can instantly remove up to 5 snaring conditions my pursuers apply by attuning to water and using cleansing fire.

I’m less likely to have vigor up when I re-engage, but I have so many defensive options to fall back on that it doesn’t really matter. The reduced boon duration from zephyr’s boon can be mitigated with some food, which I fully intend to do now. Less fury is annoying, but damage isn’t the true strength of my build.

No traits that you will only see a bunker use were touched, it was all stuff that any ele would find useful. Actually, soothing disruption got hit, but every bunker can just use cantrip mastery if they find disruption lackluster now. Cantrips are less powerful but can be used more frequently, so it isn’t a true nerf by any means. And I promise you that reduced cooldown makes me harder to kill than disruption does.

freaktong.8169:

Many counters sounds good in theory but in practice does not work. For example with the necromancer, it can never generate enough condition damage to be a serious threat (at elementalist’s rate of removal) and it’s few decent counters such as “corrupt boon” have insane cooldowns.

The issue is that most players don’t use their conditions intelligently. A good rabid necro is a tough fight for any ele unless that doesn’t go absolutely balls deep into condition removal. First, don’t stack too many conditions until you’re certain the ele has used up the removing skills. Second, chill after they leave or attune to water. If you increase the cooldown on water by just a few seconds before the ele removes chilled, that can win a fight for you. Third, turn their skills against them. All eles apply damaging conditions and necros can transfer them. Is the ele bunker with abysmal damage? If he is, you might want to get hit by churning earth on purpose and transfer the bleeds right back.

If an ele removes two conditions when attuning to water, has ether renewal, EA, cleansing fire and potentially more, you’re screwed. I do believe that the ability to use all the condition removal traits with ether renewal is way too powerful, but anything short of that can be countered with skill.

Caledore.6271:

Did you miss the part where I said “That said – I wouldn’t be opposed to some sets that show more fur if it was done in a fierce tribal way, rather than a ‘sexy’ way.”?

I am all for more choices, even if it doesn’t exactly fit lore. And I never said the current sets do, either – in fact I hate how they just stretched and transported armors onto the Charr with no thought on how it looks or the horrid clipping issues. I love Charr but my biggest problem with them is how horrible most armor looks on them.

Saying you’re ok with something doesn’t mean an argument you use against it can’t be illogical. If current armor has nothing to do with lore or pragmatism, why should any new or redesigned armor?

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Clipping and stretching is a limitation of the game engine, not lore. Get a better argument.

You missed my argument, so I don’t think you’re qualified to comment on its quality. Also, clipping is an issue with how much work and resources Anet wanted to devote to charr armor. They have shown to be capable of making charr armor without clipping and terrible footwear. I don’t know anything about game design, but I am capable of recognizing when results can be replicated consistently. If they dealt with the limitations for cultural armor and a few other sets, they could have done the same thing for other armor.

Caledore.6271:

I don’t see it as an issue of modesty but practicality. Charr as a race are extremely pragmatic now (and very far from the bestial Charr from GW1). Leaving a lot of fur showing leaves it open to attack, and Charr would never sacrifice that combat advantage for aesthetic reasons. So from a lore perspective, I don’t think showing a lot of fur really fits the Charr in GW2.

It isn’t pragmatic to wear clothes don’t fit either. Anet doesn’t care about lore in regard to armor. Please show me the lore that states how charr have an affinity for tail clipping and giant, stretched shoes that don’t fit. The lore and pragmatism arguments didn’t result in quality armor, but those same arguments should be used as a reason against aesthetic diversity? The very principle and logic behind that idea is almost infuriating.

If the invulnerable zones at refuge are oversights, they are good ones. Refuge is the only camp in the game without any sort of back door exit. If the zones go away, the camp should be redesigned so people losing a fight at refuge don’t have to run past a potentially much larger enemy force or be trapped. In fact, another exit would be much better because anybody from any team could use it.

Is ARM a female human ele from a guild with kitten tag? I recall seeing a rather glassy ele from that guild who always seems to have two buffs. I also remember quite a bit of standing near invulnerable zones while spamming laugh and dance to goad people into attacking. The picture ARM posted reminds me of that ele. If ARM is this person, I can see why people ignore him.

Edit: Really, Anet? Durp (replace “u” with “e”) gets censored?

Yuki Chuki.2457:

• What do you think about swapping out Sigil of Corruption with Bloodlust in your original build to get even more power? You don’t have mentionworthy condition damage in that build anyway

Corruption sigils are a complete waste on an ele. Everyone who has ever thought of using corruption sigils should look at this page and do some math.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_Damage

250 condition damage gives you a mere 12.5 more damage from each bleed and 62.5 from burning. Eles can’t stack bleeding as well as other professions, and every dagger attack that applies a condition can deal decent to very good direct damage. Conditions can be cleansed to further reduce your already unimpressive condition damage, and power will boost all your damage skills. Life, bloodlust and accuracy should be the only stacking sigils you see on an ele.

Plus, he only has 2500 attack, so he needs more power to make that 43 crit damage and 33% crit chance worth the stat investment.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

However, HoD seems to be more content with fighting over table scraps than making a push to actually try to win. 2nd place = still lose.

You really shouldn’t be talking about servers as a whole in this context. GoM has attacked us at the same time as dh. This has happened many times when we were in last place by a non-trivial margin. You might not try to fight over “scraps.” However, everyone on your server doesn’t feel the same way.

Personally, I’m more concerned about finding a good fight when I go into WvW; winning for the week carries little to no meaning or significance. I tend to harass GoM more because I think my odds of finding good GoM (capital G) players is higher than finding someone good on dh (lowercase d).

I will admit that we, GT, could learn a thing or two about sportsmanship from GoM. About 8 or so GoM were nice enough to open the doors to their hills keep for us, and they even dropped loot for us on our way in. Your hospitality brings this wuss to tears.

-That GT charr ele

paleeshi.1924:

Isn’t using glyph making you more vulnerable to burst then? If you read daphoenix’s post in this tread, you’ll see that he explained it pretty well. Using up the glyph you will have no heal available for the next 20-25sec (if we take water attunement out of the equation), while with signet not only do you receive constant passive healing, but you can always use its active effect in “oh kitten” situations.

If you are being spiked down quickly, healing for 5k in a second with a few seconds of protection or regeneration afterwards is way better than regenerating a similar amount of hp over 25 seconds. Plus, you can’t logically claim using a heal makes you vulnerable is a con because that is true for all healing and defensive skills. If using the glyph made you significantly more vulnerable, the argument would be legit. However, the signet is the heal that is most useless against spikes, and makes you the most vulnerable after use. Burst happens over a much shorter period of time than 25 seconds, and using the active makes the signet’s healing over 15 or 25 seconds absolutely tank. If you’re being hit with the damage, you won’t live long enough to utilize the passive effect well. If you have to activate the signet, you’re at a rather large disadvantage. If you just avoid the burst, someone using the glyph or ether renewal can do the same thing.

daphoenix.4283:

I tend to think of the utility 6 and water attunement as different modes of healing, giving yourself more variety to different situations. In this instance, you are using 2 burst heals from 2 different sources.

Actually, I think of water attunement and #6 in the same basic way, but I don’t consider the healing effects from water attunement to be burst heals. Healing ripple is going to heal for about 2k tops and you get two regen effects over about 10 seconds. Evasive arcana, attuning and whatever weapon heal you have can add up to a burst heal (significantly more than any of the main heals), but it can take several times longer to reach that point than just using the glyph. Therefore, not burst healing. Traits give me sustained healing, and #6 gives me instant.

daphoenix.4283:

Scenarios:
Case 1
You are fighting 1 good player or several mediocre players and you are able to effectively get ~32 casts per 25 seconds.

SoR: 32×240 = 7680
GoEH: 5100 +optional 2300

Case 2:
You are fighting 2 high tiered competent PvP players. Assume this is a worst case scenario, and your 32 spells are halved to 16, and that you have to run, utilize LoS heavily, and get interupted extremely heavily.

SoR: 16×240= 3840
GoEH: 5100+2300

Case 3
My general case scenario in WvWvW and PvE. I rush in into a large zerg army and rambo (10-20 people, culling issues, underleveled players, clueless people, etc.)

SoR: 28×240=6720
GoEH: 5300+2100

Conclusion:
You don’t want to blow off all GoEH in water attunement all of the time, because this makes you vulnerable to instagib burst attacks since ALMOST ALL your healing is on CD.

SoR is generally almost always better for situations that you do not have to worry about bursting. This is mainly in easy PvE situations, and most sustained WvWvW situations because most people are not top tiered players. Glyph of elemental harmony shines in burst situations, where you are fighting competent teams and need to run / heal often.

This is why it doesn’t make any objective sense to use the signet.

If we go by these numbers the glyph would win. Scenario #1 represents the only situation in which the signet provides more healing, but it is only 280 more hp. The scenario is an easy fight. Do you need the absolute most optimal heal for an easy fight? If you survive because of 280 hp, the fight does not qualify as easy for you.

Somehow healing yourself to full or nearly full makes you more vulnerable to spikes than regenerating it more slowly. Stun breakers, dodging, protection and interrupting the enemy are the things that protect against spikes. If you don’t have or use any of those things, having more hp when a spike hits is objectively better than having less. Plus, you are contradicting yourself by claiming the glyph is better against burst, but claiming that activating the heal makes you vulnerable to burst. This is ridiculous when we’re talking about a comparison. The signet is worse against burst regardless of what you do with it. If the signet never offers any good option against burst, you can’t list the glyph being vulnerable against burst under some conditions to be a con.

We agree that the glyph is the better heal when things get somewhat difficult, which are the times when optimization actually matters. Why use a heal that is only optimal in situations that you would be very likely to win regardless of what heal you used? I have a better chance against competent players, and I still win against people that I just plain outclass.

Ether renewal and the glyph are better heals for those concerned about getting the overall best healing in a variety of situations. The signet is more of a style choice for people that don’t like to active a heal.

paleeshi.1924:

@Tei: If you have 10 ppl CCing you, then it won’t matter if you have glyph or signet. What you do is get the hell out of there. Either that or you get CCed to death that you won’t even be able to do anything.

You also take only one situation into account (CC in pvp) as if it would be crucial to which heal skill should be used.

If 10 people are using cc on me, I can mist form and use the glyph without sacrificing
regeneration for 25 seconds.

I’m talking about cc mostly because the argument that the signet passive heals for more assumes ideal conditions, constantly using skills. There are very common things that can lower your overall skill usage, so the signet is not as reliably powerful as the glyph. The signet is theoretically more powerful, but the glyph is going be more powerful in practice. Honestly, I feel like going with a heal that is only powerful under ideal conditions is illogical. If you are doing well enough to spam skills for maximum signet healing, you’d likely survive the encounter regardless of the heal you used.

Also, “viable” simply means that something works. Something can be viable and objectively inferior to other options at the same time. The signet is viable and competitive, but the glyph is just a little bit better in the vast majority of situations.

paleeshi.1924:

Actually you can get passive effect from dodge if you have evasive arcana, since it also cast a skill. now it’s only each 10th second, but still.

as for the rest, same can be said about glyph. channeling glyph heal is pretty easy to spot and can be easely interrupted. I do this a lot to spvp eles who use the glyph to heal up. now it’s only pvp situation, but still.

and also, if you get disabled for for 3-4 sec, you miss out maybe 600-800 of passive healing, while if you interrupt the glyph you miss out 5500 of active heal.

It is not exactly the same. For the signet, every single crowd control used on you while the passive is up will decrease your overall healing. The glyph gives enemies a mere second long window to interrupt. The same logic applies to poison. The bulk of the glyph heal happens in 1 second. If poison isn’t on you at that exact moment, the healing reduction doesn’t matter regarding the glyph. Every single time you’re poisoned while using a skill decreases the healing from the signet.

I’m just going to say that in my experience most enemies don’t watch for my glyph to interrupt it. I think most people don’t think that way because eles have other heals to fall back on. They probably think it’s better to save cc’s for a burst combo or something. If someone interrupts my heal on purpose, I’m fighting someone competent. Anybody can make the signet less effective with completely random interrupts. I’d rather use the heal that is countered by thought, timing and skill as opposed to using a skill on cooldown. Plus, you’re not really missing out on a 5500 heal, the heal is simply being delayed. You only completely miss it when you die before you have the chance to activate it again. If you use the glyph sooner rather than later, you can mitigate the effects of being interrupted and potentially use it at a time your enemy wasn’t prepared for. Also, I’ve only been talking about this from a pvp (I consider wvw to be pvp) perspective.

I agree with razor for the most part. I view the glyph as superior in most cases. I might even go as far as saying it is mathematically and objectively superior. The only argument to be made in favor of the signet is that it provides nice sustained, but the same can be said for the regeneration from the glyph. Plus, sustained healing from regeneration is more reliable than having to use a skill. If you’re being stunned, generally harassed or have to go on the defensive for any reason, your healing from the signet passive is going to be reduced. Just because the signet passive can outheal the glyph in theory doesn’t mean that it will in practice. Plus, this will remove a condition with the appropriate trait.

Plus, the glyph is more versatile and useful for triggering any “on heal” effects from runes (which I use). I heal myself and allies for an extra 1k or so (not amazing but 1k hp can save your life) when I use the glyph. A heal that discourages being activated would get significantly less benefit from that.

paleeshi.1924:

For the simplicity let us just use #1 fire skill.
0,5sec channel + 1 sec cast time. That gives us 16.666666… casts during these same 25 sec. Now with 800 healing power I get about 320 heals per tick with signet.
16×320=5760.

Unless of course you get stunned, dazed, knocked down, want to revive an ally, you get confused and have to stop spamming momentarily or anything else happens that prevents you from using skills. The glyph will heal for about 5400-5500 hp at 800 healing power. Regeneration will heal for 2300 with no boon duration. The total healing from the glyph is higher in most situations because you don’t have to make a choice between sustained or instant healing and boon removal is much more rare than being interrupted. If you’re already stacking very long regeneration boons with soothing disruption or something, I could see a better reason for using the signet. However, it could still be argued that the glyph can give protection.

vigil coat & mantle
ascalonian gloves
If you don’t recognize the leggings and footwear, you don’t deserve a good looking charr scholar.

I’ve been thinking since beta that unsteady ground and shockwave should have their snaring conditions swapped. Unsteady ground immobilizes, and shockwave cripples. Decrease the cooldown on shockwave (15 or 20 seconds?) because a cripple and single stack of bleed doesn’t deserve a 30 second cooldown. I don’t want unsteady ground to change drastically; I’m not a fan of big changes when simple ones should suffice.

I assume you’re talking about this for PvE because you could easily try the stat combos in PvP yourself.

The first exotic gear I got for my ele was predominately cleric’s gear. I was running around with 1k+ healing power. I can safely say that high healing power is rewarding on an elementalist. When I had my cleric’s gear, I didn’t even touch glyph of elemental harmony. You can attune to water twice in the time most main heals take to cooldown. Healing ripple will heal for around 2300 (very rough estimate) at 1k healing power. Using it twice would be 4600 which rivals main healing skills. Once you factor in soothing mist and the regeneration boon, it isn’t even a contest. Obviously, there are still the weapon skills that heal and evasive arcana to factor in.

However, I would not recommend going that deep, 1k+, into healing power. You just give up so much in terms of damage and health to get truly absurd healing. I think base healing power(before a sigil of life) should not be higher than 500-700. You can still use a sigil of life to get stronger heals, and a sigil shouldn’t hurt your damage and health as much as using all or predominately cleric’s gear.

Bllade.1029:

Don’t get all bent out of shape. I’m hardly trying to “chest thump.” I don’t even know why i’m responding, regardless next time i’ll be a little more considerate and sugar coat things.

To understand why people don’t like what you have to say you only have to look at the things HoD players were saying when we won 2 weeks ago.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/12th-January-HoD-DH-GoM/page/2

There is not a single post about how great we are for winning. Nobody explained how coordinated we were. Nobody talked about how we had so many more players. Everyone who posted was just happy to have a very balanced match-up. That week we had the most balanced match-up among all the servers including the EU battles. This was HoD’s first win since the Titan alliance left. Frankly, winning a close game means way more than having a sizable advantage. This is why the people who were bragging about beating HoD shortly after we lost the vast majority of our WvW players were viewed as pathetic.

Also, you explained your alliance situation, but nobody asked about your kittening alliance or how you were winning. Your post was basically “Let me explain why we are better than HoD and GoM.” Talking about how great your alliance is without any sort of provocation is most certainly chest thumping. If you looked up the definition of “chest thumping” you would find a description of what you have done. If you think you aren’t being at least a little pompous and arrogant, you’re aren’t being honest with yourself. I mean, you’re claiming that you went from losing the first week by a rather thin margin to holding a significant point lead this entire week based almost entirely on coordination and strategy. So, you think DH is just that good and/or HoD and GoM are just that bad.

For the record, I am not bent out of shape personally. I will not lose any sleep over unsubstantiated claims that someone from every server has pitched before. I’m just trying to help you realize how you might post in the future without making an kitten of yourself.

Power doesn’t need to be different based on profession because each skill has its own power coefficient. If all thief skills have a power coefficient of 1.2 or higher, thieves already effectively have more power than a profession that averages .8 or something. The same basic idea can apply to critical damage. Profession x already deals higher direct damage, so base crit damage goes further for it.

The argument can be made that ease of applying fury can be a substitute for anet wanting certain professions to have higher base precision. I like to think that is why eles have such great and easy access to fury with zephyr’s boon and/or arcane fury.

Base condition damage doesn’t need to be higher for professions that can already stack more conditions faster and for longer durations by default.

Some professions have more heals and/or better heals with higher coefficients than others by default. They are already better at healing, so no need to give them higher base healing power.

Higher base stats would just mean that they would have to adjust skills and traits based on that anyway. Plus, making professions better at something without just increasing a stat is more interesting. A higher base crit chance is just a higher base crit chance. However, fury can at least be stripped, interact with traits/runes and requires people to make some kind of choice.

Base hp and armor are basically inversely proportional to the amount of active defense a profession can have. Warriors aren’t very good at removing conditions, healing, applying defensive boons/conditions, blocking, evading, teleporting, using stealth or any of the other things squishier professions use to make up for having less passive defense. High armor and hp are nice things to have, but they can’t be timed right for increased effect.

Gaudrath.6725:

So do you stand in five meteor showers?

Probably not for the full duration, but it would mostly depend on how much dps the eles using them have. I feel like I could at least finish casting about 2 skills or finish reviving someone and make it out ok though. 5 meteor showers still don’t all hit you at once. Getting hit by one meteor from 3 or 2 showers every second is something I can deal with for a little bit at least. Someone in the zerg has to stand his ground and make pushes. I’m certainly not going to go into full on retreat mode the instant I see 5 attacks from what are most likely bunker-ish players. You’re not gonna see me playing like a kitten in one of those “5 vs a zerg” videos.

tldr: Yes, and I would do it successfully

Brutelas.2903:

It will moast likley do the oposite. Seriusly, Meteor Shower as it is now is super OP. It’s
Meteor shower i can understand using some tweaking, it’s a very powerful skill but it’s the only AoE i can think of that would draw good amount of attention to ele’s. Most elementalists here are concerned about cross the board skill nerfs for ele’s since majority of every skill is an aoe and many of them don’t always connect the damage to intended targets since most AoE’s can be dodge rolled or walked away from.

Actually, if Anet is serious about the idea that aoe shouldn’t be used against a single foe, meteor shower is one of the best examples of what all aoe should be. Meteor shower might just deal zero damage to a single foe, and auto-attacking is pretty much guaranteed to be more damaging to one player. Every single meteor could miss a single person standing still. I literally stand in meteor shower in wvw because that skill does pitiful damage to me individually. Meteor shower can deal good overall damage to large group of foes, but it is little more than pressure or area denial to the individuals that comprise the group. I every aoe skill was more like meteor shower, Anet would have exactly what they want.

Ben K.6238:

Tei.1704:

I assume many charr are white for the same reason many humans are white. It’s likely that mostly white people play this game, and people like characters to look like them to a certain extent. I’ve only seen about 1 white charr that looks good, so I don’t like them on an aesthetic level. However, all the white charr make mine look more unique.

I’d figure that people who want their characters to look like them would play a human.

I said “to a certain extent” for a reason. Most people clearly don’t want a copy of themselves because many males play as females and various other things that they clearly aren’t. If 90% of gw2 players were black, most of the human females you saw would be black instead of white. If people want a character that isn’t going to look much or anything like them, giving it whatever features they can that more closely match their own should still be expected.

Besides, it is within the realm of possibility that people make their clone, but they still want different races and looks.

I assume many charr are white for the same reason many humans are white. It’s likely that mostly white people play this game, and people like characters to look like them to a certain extent. I’ve only seen about 1 white charr that looks good, so I don’t like them on an aesthetic level. However, all the white charr make mine look more unique.

Arheundel.6451:

Sorry to break your bubble but….the developers have already stated this:

1) D/D was/is in need of help ( aka no nerfs incoming)
2) Ele auto-attacks are too low in dmg ( aka buffs incoming)
3) Ele burst is very rough ( aka buffs incoming)
4) Traits….soon to be buffed

Source : Developer John Peter
In the end other weapon sets will be buffed, d/d may be changed ( never the nerfs you’re hoping for though) and more traits/utilities will become available..and the end result?
The qq will never end, it’s easier to cry when losing than get better XD

I should look at the dev tracker from time to time. I don’t want to miss more good news like this. I’m not expecting the changes soon, but it’s still good to know.

Complaints about dagger ele are officially a learn to play issue for me. I have been in extremely close fights with every other profession. I have been destroyed by good necros, mesmers and guardians. I had a 30+ minute fight with a ranger last night. I can’t remember the last time I beat my engineer friend in structured. If I beat 5 people in wvw by myself, I know for a fact that those people are just terrible players because it only takes one competent player to kill me. If 6 people can’t catch me, I know that they are bad, didn’t spec to have the ability to catch/snare fleeing foes or didn’t time those abilities properly. I deserve to get away from them in all 3 of those cases.

In WvW, a staff is more useful in large scale battles anyway. Being hard to kill because you run away doesn’t help your server. Demolishing siege and nuking choke points with a staff is what helps win battles.

If people don’t want to feel forced into arcana, we should get an elite signet that reduces attunement cooldowns inversely proportional to our points in arcana. The reduction at 0 points could actually be quite generous considering the act of simply attuning doesn’t have much impact without the traits to back it up. I don’t see people complaining about the arcana bonuses being OP. People just want more options. A second option might solve the issue without giving us lower attunement cooldowns for absolutely nothing.

I don’t mind points in arcana being a must so long as the other trait lines are designed assuming you have a minimum of 10 points in arcana. Based on the post about the profession philosophies, I’d say there is a good chance making people feel forced into arcana is intentional. None of the other trait lines combine with reduced attunement cooldowns as well as water does. Plus, fire, air and earth have very little synergy with other trait lines outside of gimmick builds. I say those 3 lines are the ones that need to be fixed before anything else.

That tail effect makes Cof light armor the most aggravating armor for charr in the game. First, someone at Anet went through the trouble of making a charr specific armor effect involving the tail, but this same person apparently didn’t stop to consider that the tail shouldn’t be clipping through. This armor is supposed to be from the flame legion. It is supposed to be armor made for and by charr. There shouldn’t be any tails clipping or horns disappearing. Second, the tail uses a male model regardless of gender. Literally, this is the only armor set that would need to be altered to account for the different charr genders, but that wasn’t done. There was time to make some armor sets look completely different on human females or cut out pieces of clothing that were getting in the way of cleavage, midriffs or what have you. Was there time to make sure the molten tail effect accounted for female charr? Obviously, not. The one time Anet went the extra mile to give charr something special for a set every race can wear and it turned out to be a half kitten job.

If there is any reason for medium and heavy armor missing the effect, it would be because I’m fairly sure the flame legion casters are the only enemies with the fiery look. All the stalkers, bladestorms and whatnot just look like normal charr wearing flame legion colors. That is the only explanation I can think of that wouldn’t just amount to laziness, apathy or charr armor being an extremely low priority. However, it has been some time since I’ve been to cof, so I may not be remembering it correctly.

Alexixiv.8125:

I prefer to view it as you have your way of surviving and I have mine, neither is wrong and both can be extremely powerful depending on how much skill we develop. This game is highly skill based and you may not perceive it being a higher skill level weapon because you have not developed your skill set around it. I think that all weapon combinations are generally balanced at most stages of the game, even if the community as a whole has not discovered the winning strategies. There are simply too many variables for each weapon set to say “it doesn’t really offer much” when in reality it is just that you do not see what it has to offer yet. The community is still in a phase of learning and discovery, this is an attempt to contribute the knowledge I have gained to bring another perspective and hopefully help others branch out in their skill sets

Most people don’t use focus much because most of the focus skills are simply bad. Obsidian flesh, swirling winds and magnetic wave are great skills, but those 3 skills aren’t usually worth having 5 useless/very weak skills.

A single target knockdown from gale is bad when you consider that updraft is aoe, applies swiftness and has a lower cooldown. Flamewall deals less direct and condition damage than ring of fire. Ring of fire has a shorter cooldown and cast time. Ring of fire is also easier to hit with and use for combos. Fire shield just burns, which is redundant with both main-hand weapons. Scepter auto-attack and drake’s breath have permanent upkeep for burning by themselves. Fire shield isn’t even good for activating aura traits because it is tied for longest cooldown and you can make a fire aura with skills that recharge much more quickly, magnetic grasp and ring of fire.

Comet can be strafed easily, and a daze is much less likely to save you than an extra heal and condition removal. Freezing gust isn’t terrible, but a single target chill that recharges in 25 seconds should chill for longer than 3 seconds. If you compare the numbers and effects of freezing gust to every other chill skill, you’ll realize that no amount of strategy or knowledge will make it competitive with the others. You can use freezing gust effectively or even win a fight because of it, but neither of those will change the fact that it and most of the other focus skills are underpowered.

If this is an attempt to help, we should be brainstorming ideas for how the focus skills can be buffed and/or reworked.