Guild Wars 2

witcher.3197:

Thaddeus.4891:

Nausiation, keep in mind that this is a Metabuild so most ppl using that are usually in a Guild that do raid on a regular basis.

That’s not entirely true. The main target auidence are PUGs, because they are the overwhelming majority of the playerbase (afaik guilds are mostly running their own altered versions, catering to them would be a bit pointless and complicated). This means the builds under that section do a great job even without a coordianted team. However, there are options listed for guild teams as well. Or something like that, WvW’s not my territory

I’m not saying that the meta build is targeted at guild group and don’t work with pugs. I’m just saying that pure zerker elementalist is not a metabuild because its a niche role. Ya it can be great, but its not a core element of a group.

Rune of Strength or Hoelbrak are good for Phalanx warrior, but not a DPS warrior or a Guardian. Strength is also really expensive.

Scholar on the other hand work with all build and its a bit less expensive. Sure Phalanx warrior will be a bit less good a might, but it will still work.

There is a sticky from Obal in the guardian subforum about Guardian in PvE, read it.

In WvW, you have the AH frontliner. Its a tankier Guardian with the main focus being to give boons to your group (protection, stability and might mostly). Weapons are Staff with either Hammer and Greatsword

In PvP, you have a bunker. Your job would be to keep a node for points. You go all in defense and self healing. You shouldn’t be able to kill anyone (except if they are pretty bad), but your job would be to buy time for your team to kill ppl that try to get the node from you. You will also give them boons, stomp ppl in the node, rez your ally, etc.

Weapons there are usually Mace, Focus and Staff. But some ppl like to use sword for a bit more dps and a reflect or a shield to push back ppl out of the node.

Aeolus.3615:

Killface.1896:

One phalanx warrior per group,warrior are just support class atm…

and guardian the dps…. XD, it feels like inverted class jobs, for sure it is innovative.

He’s right. Warrior is a support class atm. Offensive support banners is the only reason why Warrior is part of a record run right now since other profession have better dps than a warrior.

Warrior give offensive support, Guardian give defensive support, Thief give stealth and boss dps, elementalist give support and general dps, mesmer give portal and reflect.

Shanks.2907:

Thaddeus.4891:

- Yes 3 reliable source of switness. And? You can have perma switfness, where is the problem?

The problem is that none of those three sources of swiftness can be worked into a meditation dps build. All three are centered on bunker type skills (shouts, staff) where swiftness uptime isn’t as important. Sticking to your target is crucial for a melee dps build.

Sure, it works fine in PvE if you’re running from mining nodes to use staff and 2 shouts for swiftness alone, but in PvP or roaming WvW there needs to be a source with more synergy. Access to swiftness or movement speed through traits would be ideal, as all 7 other classes have some form of swiftness/movement speed in their traits. Even a low duration high application (like 5s of swiftness on crit) or a conditional movement speed (like warriors) would be better than nothing.

That a WAY better point that what OP said. I can get behind that. I don’t play medi guardian, i play bunker guardian in sPvP, so this problem never occur to me.

Medi guardian and Bunker guardian are still pretty good in sPvP. Can other profession do better those two things? Probably and that’s why guardian are not in most of the best team. But they work very well in Team Arena. The top profession always change over time, so if guardian is not in the top 4 right now, its not that big of a deal really.

WoW, what a terrible build. Seriously after 2 years in the game there is still ppl that try to keep on the trinity and still want to heal with a guardian?

Wrong game man, just wrong game. You have more defensive stats on that PvE build that I have on my WvW frontline guardian. Just think about that. I have 20 ppl on my kitten and I have enough defensive stats, you have a couple of AI on you and you need that much defense?

- Shield is terrible, but can be useful in sPvP to push back enemy out of nodes.
- Mace is a good sPvP bunker weapons, but a lot of better weapons than that for PvE.
- No secondary weapons?
- Hold the line don’t have any use in PvE.

Oh man. So many thing wrong with this build, I can’t go through them all.

‘’Tell me what you would change! Thank you!’’

Everything I guess.

Ppl died a lot back then and need a bit of surviability. Dead dps is no dps remember. As ppl got better and figure out how much dps can be powerful if you stack damage multiplier, they abandoned all together these kind of hybrid like the auramancer.

Nausiation, keep in mind that this is a Metabuild so most ppl using that are usually in a Guild that do raid on a regular basis. In that situation, elementalist are not as much important as dmg dealer compare to the necro since everybody is moving a lot. Good group of player won’t stay in your meteor shower or Ice storm. Necro do a faster burst to get those type of guys.

Also, the elementalist in this kind of group have a huge support role and need to always stay within range of their frontline to give them water field at each regroup. So they need to be able to take a couple of hits near the battle when they do that.

Of couse, if you have already 3-4 elementalist, you don’t need more support elementalist really. So the additional ele can go glassier. It also depend on what kind of guild you are. If you like to fight in close quarter like defending a fort, then a glassy elementalist can be powerful in choke point. But in Open ground, like I said earlier, the aoe of a staff elementalist are obvious are slow to start damaging.

mightyJAWS.3621:

So I was wondering about this for a while.
I know that most people use berserker in pve, and I already know how good it is on a warrior.
But I was wondering:
Why is Berserker Guardian or Berserker Mesmer considered so good.
I’m not saying they aren’t, but isn’t Guardian supposed to be tanky protection provider? Or Mesmer should be a clone manipulating illusionist or something? I see I’m missing something since I see so many people talk about it.
I’ll be happy if someone could explain the real benefits in those builds cuz as I see now, Berserker Warrior has the most damage as berserker (and I guess I see something wrong).
Thanks for any help! Would

The stats on your armor doesn’t improve any important thing for these classe. Guardian shouldn’t be tanky, but it should give active defense for his party. That include blind, aegis, reflection, and protection. And all those things come from trait and skills, not stats.

And its the same thing with all profession. Some are better in assassin and other are better in beserker, but no profession will be improved by knight, soldier, etc. Stats on your item change the balance between ‘’personnal surviablity’’ (toughness, vitality) and ’’dps’’ (power, precision, ferocity).

There is a big discussion in the community about this. One side say that they want stats to matter outside of this surviability vs dps things so that other set of stats other than berserker could be good. The other side say that you have trait, skills, weapons, runes and sigils for build diversity already and if you try to change things about stats you either risk to break the game or don’t change anything at all since dps will always be the ultimate gold in PvE.

Ya the current Wardrobe system is really better for Level 80, but less pratical for leveling character. We used to have two kind of transmutation stone, one for level 80 that are costly are rare (you pretty much had to buy them with gem), and another one that you could find while leveling and that work until level 79.

You could found enough low level stone to change your armor on a regular basis while leveling but it was costly to change your armor once we reached level 80.

Right now its the other way around. Which is better in my opinion since you gonna play more on a level 80 than leveling. But it can be frustrating for some ppl that like to have a good looking skin while leveling.

Dragon’s Tooth – Flamewall – Phoenix – Earth Attunement – Arcane Wave – Arcane Brilliance – Magnetic Wave – Water Attunement – Comet

That’s for S/F. You can switch stuff around a bit. You can cast Flamewall before Dragon’s Tooth and still have time to finish everything. You can move around arcane wave and arcane brilliance if you want. You want to finish with water if you have a 5/4/0/5/0 build, but if you use a 6/6/2/0/0 build it doesn’t matter if you finish with earth or water. You can use Obsidian Flesh in there if you are in a difficult situation to be invulnerable for the end of your rotation.

You can only stack 18 stacks of might in once shot, not 25.

Kain Francois.4328:

Please stay on topic… I would like numbers, please.

Sorry mate. Nobody will do the math for MM Necromancer. Maybe you will be lucky and someone will, but you probably better to do it yourself.

MM have terrible dmg so really few ppl if any will take the time to calculate it.

Anyway, it will be terrible.

mikeew.8607:

There was more information i dunno what happened to this posting, he had stated he was running a pistol shield build with heavy burning and bleeding basically a condo build.

That’s not what ppl need as information when you want help. We need to know were you want to use that build. sPvP, Zerg, Roaming, PvE, etc?

Ya, you need to give use more information, more context. If you are saying Rabid + Balthazar I suppose you mean for a Condi Double kit build (Nade/Toolkit or Bomb/Toolkit). This work in sPvP and WvW Roaming.

For the runes
- Strength : This is the best runes for S/F Ele that stack might. But it’s expensive.
- Scholar : Best choice for Staff, it work well of S/F Ele too. It’s a bit less expensive.
- Flame Legion : Work on staff (take the trait that put burn in the fire trait line), but not at all for a standard S/F. It’s cheap.
- Ranger : This rune work with a miniature, so keep one with you. But I think its a bug that may be fixed latter. This rune cost less than 2 gold.
- Ruby Orb : This is only temporary, while you get enough gold to buy a proper rune. These are really cheap.

For infusion, you should start with a +5 that you can get at the vendor inside fractal and put it on your amulet. You should really read the wiki on that, it can be complicated.

Back Item and Accessories can be a bit harder to get. Take berserker for those so you don’t want to change to zerker latter one. When I did my first back item I crafted Soldier stats and regretted it when I got better and wanted zerker. Took me a while to get a new back item. Accessories can be buy with laurel+ecto or guild recommendation (the second is the cheapest, but you need an active guild, plenty of guild are ready to bring a new player that want to gear up). A lot of ways to get a back item, read the wiki for that one, but it will be a medium term goal.

- Support role are support important in the all three game mode. What you are thinking is tanking and healing. In PvE the guardian bring aegis, blind, reflection and protection. Those four support are really important in several dungeon, while yes it can be useless in some of the easiest dungeon like CoF. In WvW, guardian are one of the 4 main profession when it come to a zerg. In sPvP, the profession is lagging a bit, but we still have two powerful build and are one of the best bunker. So ya Guardian is good at meaningful support and this nobody laugh at that. We laugh at healing, cleric, staff guardian in PvE. Not the same thing.
- For Zeal, i can’t say much. Some good trait for PvE, but mostly useless major trait. You’re right on this one.
- For conditions, you are still right. Burning is really good, but can’t stand on its own. Especially since we don’t that much skill that can give burning. In PvP, ppl can remove it faster than we can apply it, compare to a Hambow warrior for exemple.
- Sword have some issue. Its doesn’t break the profession but they are annoying.
- Never really think about combo finisher, but you are right. We only have 10 finisher and 3 of those are on the spear lol. But not all profession must have all the stuff. It’s a weakness, but the profession have other strength. It’s a none issue in my opinion.
- Scepter is good, but true, it would be nice to have a second true ranged weapons with more AoE. A bit like the Warrior longbow.
- Stun and Daze are two CC. Yes we don’t really have stun or daze. But we have the most knockdown (4 vs 2 for most profession), and for pull and knockback we have a normal amount of those. I wouldn’t mind more CC, but I don’t see the urgency for it.
- Yes 3 reliable source of switness. And? You can have perma switfness, where is the problem?
- Shield. Oh there you are spot on. I would so love to use a shield on my guardian. The legendary shield look so kitten. Too bad its complete kitten.
- The thing about trait that don’t work together. I don’t know. It feel more like an opinion.

In the end. The Guardian is in a really good place right now. In PvE, even if Guardian is rarely part of record run (but really only thief, warrior, elementalist and mesmer are usually part of those run), it always a powerful profession to keep your allies alive wihtout sacrificing much dps. It’s also essentiel in fractals. In WvW, its part of the 4 main profession in a zerg, being a core element of any organized guild. In sPvP, the Guardian is already on of the best bunker, but true, when it come to roaming and killing you are pretty much limited to very few build.

InfernoHero.5687:

Is this any better, then?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJMQNAneTjMd05Z3HOewJagfgycAUAVvq3IdRsEZBA-TxRBwAp03YU5HoTpAO1fkoEEwTKgt5PA-e

I still don’t know what runes to use.

A build for world boss is pretty weird. I don’t judge, it’s just that is unusual so the expertise of the community on that is probably pretty low.

But lets see. I would change Burst Precision for Beserker power and wouldn’t use your Burst skill. That would boost your dmg significantly.

Why do you use the dolyak signet? You already have enough defensive stats with soldier gear. You would be better with signet of might, for great justice or if you need a stability, balanced stance.

For the runes, I would think superior rune of the flames legion or scholar. You wouldn’t have any use of the + burn duration, or the ferocity out of these runes. But Flames legion will give you 7% all the time (on world boss all condition are there all the time) and the rune of scholar would give you 10% if you can stay at 90%. Flames legion is cheaper, maybe it would be better for you.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_AH_Frontliner

Mace is better in sPvP. It don’t have as much reach as GS, Staff or Hammer so you will hit less ppl. It also only cleave on 3 ppl compare to 5 for GS, Staff or Hammer.

Staff is there for the utilities (line of warding, empower) and for the auto-attack that allow you to tag everything.

GS is all about damage. The leap is also a huge boost in surviability if you know how to use it.

Hammer is a middle ground. It have nice dmg, but also give you anti-mobility skills like rings and immobilize. And of course a blast.

You can use whatever you want in the end. But Mace, Torch, Shield and Focus are not the best choice in a zerg.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-DPS-Guardian-for-PVE/first

I love that your assassin was replace by kitten Xyonon

But, Xyonon and Rozbuska are right (more Xyonon). Rifle would be the best choice. But, you most of the time you your nade, flame-thrower or elixir gun. So even if pistol/shield is less dps, its not that big of a deal. As a casual, you wouldn’t see any difference. Pistol/Shield on the other hand will give you a blast finisher and a reflect, that will increase you survivability.

For sigil, its always the same things for most profession.

- Force and Accuracy : Not the best, but it’s the best that work everywhere.
- Bloodlust : Its perfect in WvW, but in PvE. Either you don’t need it (open world), either you don’t have time to stack them before the end (dungeon). It work for some dungeon, but …
- Night and Force : It will give you the best dps, but won’t work for all dungeon. The good thing is that it will work on most of the more profitable dungeon that everybody do.
- Battle and Force is pretty good for the engi since you will be switching kits like crazy with this build. It will also work everywhere. For most profession, its less good that Force + Accuracy, but for the engie, it may be superior.

Ya D/D is the only weapons set that don’t really work in PvE. Its the best set for PvP, but in PvE you would be better with

D/F, Staff, S/F or S/D

Ulion.5476:

Thaddeus.4891:

Boottspurr.9184:

Ulion.5476:

That high burst ele build is just a glass cannon. With the cantrips he can run from most fights but if the wind blows on him he dies and using most of his cd for that burst. Still celestial can do comparable burst and be able to take a hit.

I’m confused as to how this relates to the conversation.

Also, celestial gives a burst comparable to berserker?

Ya me too i’m confuse my what Ulion say. Op didn’t ask what is the best build overall, he ask specifically what is the best burst possible.

And this? ‘’Still celestial can do comparable burst and be able to take a hit’’. I think he need to learn the definition of comparable. If you have a comparable burst you will be able to take a comparable hit.

How many wvw builds have 35k-50k hp? Only 2 classes that can get ~30k with buffs. Comparable burst damage meaning full hp to dead against most specs. Burst kills before others can react, overkilling someone is nice but dead is dead.

Bravo. You can kill ppl in celestial. Of course you can burst them down. When your best burst is ready, you get them on cooldown, they didn’t see you coming, etc. But that’s not comparable burst ’’DAMAGE’’. Celestial have more defensive stats, but less dmg. The number is less. Can you stop pls. Again, the op didn’t ask what is the more efficient build, or what is the best balance of stats or if its was or not overkilled. He ask what can make the highest burst. Its in the title. What is the biggest numbers, understand.

Your point of view about celestial is good, but don’t belong here. It doesn’t answer the question.

Yanx.4568:

well my issue is that i got the skins on low lvl equips and i wanna switch it to my legacy armour so the look like Magitech but seems like i have to buy transmutations for that

You will need transmuration charge for that. But you don’t need to buy it. Transmutation charge are relatively easy to get. Of course if you just got the game, the first few can be hard, especially if you like to change your looks a lot or keep your look through all your different gear as you level up.

Transmutation charge can be gain by completing a map. Each time you complete a map you will receive either a black lion key or a transmutation charge. If you complete a city, that will give you a transmutation charge.

You can also gain some in sPvP. On average you will gain 1 transmutation charge every 20-30 games. Of course you can decrease this number if you win most of your matches or play in team arena.

Saskari.1084:

Hello there guys!

Hello

Saskari.1084:

I think I am going to play as a human Ranger, is this a good choice?

Well, Ranger used to be a really bad profession. Recently, it got a bit better, but it still keep its stigma. The bad reputation pushed good player out of this profession for so much time that a good part of the ppl that play that profession are more casual and usually less good, making things worst for its reputation. Still, right now its one of of the top profession in sPvP. In WvW, its viable but its not part of the top profession. In PvE, where is was the more horrible before, the situation improve, but it is still on the bottom and very few competitive guild use that profession.

Keep in mind that if Ranger is not competitive in PvE and WvW, that doesn’t mean that its not viable. There is really good build that exist for this profession in those two game mode and if you play it right, you can do a terrific job with it. Its just that another profession could do it better. In sPvP its in a really good place and some ppl are frustrated by getting killed by this profession and call for a nerf.

Saskari.1084:

Is there much diversity among players (High tier players and lowlies)

A lot. If you hang out in the forum, even for a little while, you gonna see a lot of discussion between PHIW and Elitist. PHIW (Play How I Want) are ppl that don’t really give a kitten about what is good or not in the game, they want to play their way and everybody that tell them that they are playing a bad build are bad people. Some of them go even farther and ask for get ride of everything they don’t like. On the other end you have Elitist that force ppl to play meta build that they fabricated in their little evil group. They suck the fun out of the game and are kitten bags to everyone around them.

Of course, these are thrown as pejorative term and apply to a really small portion of the players. Over time, this became part of the GW2 community culture and we make fun out of these stereotype even if some serious discussion can come out of that.

Saskari.1084:

End game, how are things there?

Depend on what you like. A lot of WoW fan dislike the end game or think that there is none. There is no raid, or grind for better gear in this game. End game can be achievement hunting, grinding for looks (legendaries, expensive weapons, armor, or collection of all the skins you can find), speed running in organized group to complete a dungeon in record time, WvW combat in organized group, tPvP or just casually going through the content of the game. The game won’t hold your hand on that, you will have to figure out what do you prefer to do and make the most out of it, usually by organizing with other player that share the same preference. A lot of ppl have different guild for different part of the game for that purpose.

Boottspurr.9184:

Ulion.5476:

That high burst ele build is just a glass cannon. With the cantrips he can run from most fights but if the wind blows on him he dies and using most of his cd for that burst. Still celestial can do comparable burst and be able to take a hit.

I’m confused as to how this relates to the conversation.

Also, celestial gives a burst comparable to berserker?

Ya me too i’m confuse my what Ulion say. Op didn’t ask what is the best build overall, he ask specifically what is the best burst possible.

And this? ‘’Still celestial can do comparable burst and be able to take a hit’’. I think he need to learn the definition of comparable. If you have a comparable burst you will be able to take a comparable hit.

Kain Francois.4328:

Narkodx.1472:

Any build that invests in minions is automatically un-optimized for damage – there are far better traits for damage and far better utilities for damage

6/6/0/0/2 is not optimized for damage?

[Minion Heal skill]
[Minion Shadow Fiend]
[Minion Devourer]
[Signet that grants +180 power]
[Flesh Golem]

The only difference is that you change one of the traits for minions to deal 25% more damage, and instead of the two wells, you take minions.

How does this compare to the wells and other classes?

What is this suppose to prove? Yes, MM have some attack that can do dmg. Does it mean that it’s good dmg? The Necro is horrible at direct dmg with about 65% of the dmg of a thief. MM have some advantage in PvP, but damage is not one of them.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Staff is also lack luster.
If they would swap the orb and wave abilities around so the orb can be spammed (but not detonated) and put the wave on a 5 second CD (but with greater damage) then the staff would be great.

Staff is a huge part of the meta in WvW and tPvP since day one. There is nothing wrong with the weapons, its just not made for PvE.

Swapping the wave for the orb would be a terrible idea. The goal of the Staff is close range aoe to tag everything and do little dmg while using the support skills of the weapon. Staff have its specific identity, we don’t want a two-handed scepter.

Archangel.5942:

Would it be viable to run a non-cantrip build/setup for PvE and then switch them out when I PvP/WvW?

It wouldn’t be viable to run cantrip build in PvE. The cantrip themselves are of limited use in PvE, while the build wouldn’t take advantage of the Ele strength in PvE.

PvE and PvP are too much different and each require different build and skills.

McWolfy.5924:

I think every rangers would be happy with an immobilize insted of kb

NOOOOOOOOOO i wouldn’t. The kb is so much useful to stop someone from rezzing, stomping, pushing someone off you, pushing someone off a cliff, interrupting a skill, etc. All of those can’t be done with a immobilize.

Like other said, the meta currently is either 6/6/0/0/2 for max dps, or 6/6/0/2/0 for perma vigor but you lose static discharge.

For the kits you’ll always use Grenade and Elixir Gun. But you have 3 choice for the third kit.
- Flamethrower will give you a bit more dps because of Flame Blast/Detonate is a good burst with low cooldown. It also give you a fire field with Naplam and you have 1 blast.

- Bomb can be easier to use since you don’t need to open your Bomb kit for your rotation, just need to the Big O bomb. Almost as good dps, but the problem is the knockback that can screw up a stack, so other than a boss, this kit is not really good. If you have a fire field and a blast like the FT, you also have a smoke field to stealth your party. The best would be to switch to bomb kit when you need stealth and FT when you dps. But if you have difficulties switching trough all the kits in your rotation or if you dislike swithing utilities in the middle of a dungeon, then bomb can be a good choice.

- Tool kits is mostly for ppl that have a hard time staying alive. The only dps skill that you gonna use here is pry bar. It’s less good that FT, but it will give you access to gear shield that will block attack.

So ya. The Meta is Genade/Flamethrower/Elixir Gun. Genade will be your main kits, Flamethrower for a burst and a fire field and Elixir Gun for Acid Bomb.

Wolfar.6508:

robertul.3679:

Hi. Hybrid is bad. Have a nice day too!

What, no. Hybrid is excellent for an Engineer, we make good use of every single stat that it is a viable way of playing.

In PvP ya hybrid is good. In PvE, not at all. Especially, if you won’t gonna use the best ’’hybrid’’ kit of the engineer : the grenade.

But to answer you question. Sinister is far better than any other stats set for condition. The problem is the condition itself in PvE are crap because of the cap so you’ll have lacking dps in most settings since you use condition without the best dmg kit.

hybrid.5027:

You are mistaken.

The first number I cited (13,380) did not take into consideration the September nerf. But I also forgot to add condition damage after calculating the Vuln. There was no condition damage in that figure.

The second number (13,350) took into account the september nerf (which amounts to a 2.4% dps nerf) but I also added the condition damage in after calculating the direct damage + vuln portion. So this is the correct figure.

You mistakenly believe that in the first figure I added condition damage in and then multiplied by 1.25 for Vulnerability which I did not. I hope this settles your confusion.

Got it.

So the last nerf was really smaller than ppl seem to think if its only 2.9%. But didn’t you said earlier that Warrior dps was 12k before the nerf and 11.5k after the nerf? This is more of a 4.2% nerf.

And what do you use as dmg multiplier for Beserker Power? Since adrenaline tend to fall rather rapidly between fight and its the most controversial aspect of the last nerf, do you still use 15% directly? I don’t know what could be used as it’s hard to estimate on average what amount of adrenaline you have.

Ayrilana.1396:

That’s only a handful and getting those items could easily be a long term goal.

Long term goal is ok. I love that. But long term goal for nothing is not fun. I don’t mind if the collection take me 6 months to achieve. But there is just no reason what so ever to spend several hundred gold for a pitiful reward.

DaG.5103:

I think the reward for Spirit Crafter is right where the reward should be.

Really? Its an exotic back item. They didn’t even try, its the same exact skin as one of the crafted exotic back item just with a special effect.

hybrid.5027:

I forgot the condition damage entirely, and the nerf to warrior so my mistake.

so with that…

Warrior: 13,350

Guardian 46202: 13036

And thats assuming 100% UC uptime.

Still worse. Like I said. Lets also consider the following: if you didn’t need master of consecrations, why would you bring a Guardian? Just wondering. the 66002 or 46202 build literally have no reason to exist. If you don’t need MoC you would just bring another Ele or thief or engineer. If you need MoC, then 45005 is better dps than other options. But that’s neither here nor there in a thread about warrior dps.

The bottom line is no matter what level of buffs you choose or what ridiculous dumb build or party comp choice you make warrior will do better DPS because Guardians have fundamentally weak skill coefficient/time and their DPS relies on a trait (UC) that is quite often totally useless and even on the best case scenario imaginable still does less DPS.

As far as ‘obal and dekeyz’ numbers, they are both dekeyz. She did both sets and any difference has to do with a refine DPS rotation and or assumption of timing.

You don’t bring a guardian because of MoC. You bring because of aegis, blind and reflection. Most of the time, you don’t need MoC. The normal duration and cooldown of WoR is enough. But true, that for some dungeon and fractal, I do change my build to get MoC and then my dps drop.

13 350dps for the warrior? You acknowledge that with the 13 380 number you didn’t took into account that vulnerability don’t influence condition dmg and that you based this number pre warrior nerf. So both of these only drop the warrior dps by 30? If that’s the case, why ppl scream about the dps nerf on the warrior? It seem to me that you only fixed the vulnerability on condition dmg issue.

Like Spoj said, in the end you don’t bring warrior or guardian for their dps, so it doesn’t matter. You should always bring a warrior in any group and you should bring a guardian for some specific dungeon. But, I would still want to find out the real dps of both these profession. I’m ok with letting this go, but if you want to continue to discussion, I’m also happy with that, whatever would be the end result (even if Warrior end up on top in term of dps).

That would be nice. But still the reward is good. What is really bad are collection like :

Spirit Crafter : These weapons have a curent value of 3 000 gold on the TP right now. And the reward is a exotic back item with the same skins as one of the crafting exotic bag item, just semi-transparent with a blue glow. This is ridiculous. At that price, it should be a kitten unique skin on a ascended back item. Not an ugly exotic back item.

Treasure Hunter : The concept is super nice. Go around the world with some scavenger hunt to complete the collection that give you a chest in your home instance that you can open everyday. But some of the item you need are super rare and the top 4 costly items are 80 gold, 275 gold, 400 gold and 500 gold. That’s a huge amount of gold that you buy them or decide to not sell them. Worst, is that these items are worth nothing by themselves. These 4 items are all exotic trinkets. Ok, but a chest that you can open everyday in your home instance seem super cool. But from loots reseach available it seem like this chest is like any other chest in the world. It give only kitten. Bloodlust dust, empyreal fragment, masterwork gear, bag of jewel, bag of runes, bag of sigil, dragonite ore, if you are lucky you get rare gear or cores. This is insane. Even if you get the best items (that we know so far) everyday from that chest. It would take more than 4-5 years to get your money back. Remember, most of the items in that collection don’t have any use outside the collection.

Trash Collector : At least it was nice to complete. But really. The reward for completing it is a big bag of trash. Literally. It was a good smash on the check after a couples of hours running around tyria collection trash.

Style Guide : It’s about 300 gold of stuff and the reward is a ascended accessories. It’s nice if you already crafted Koss on Koss since it’s the most costly item in the collection. But, who would craft koss on koss now when so many ways of getting cheaper ascended back items exist?

Koutalophile : The collection items is nice. The most expensive spoon have 5 differents ways to get it, so you can use the ways that you like the most. And 3 spoons are account drop in fractal, tequalt and WvW. This can be fun to go after even if the rng could be terribly frustrating. The problem is the reward. 3 levels, 5 level 20 masterwork items and a exotic ring. Are you kitten kidding me? All of these spoons are useless anyway except for the collection, so why would i spend any currency to get the Imperial Chef Yileng’s spoon (a ascended accessory with Condition, toughness, Precision and healing power as stats) just to get that really bad rewards.

I love collection. But some of them are just stupid.

For most ppl, that’s not worth it at all. If you want to be as competitive as possible in dungeon speed run, or WvW, then ya it will help. But most ppl won’t notice the difference.

It is also necessary if you want to reach level 50 in fractal.

A full ascended set will increase your stats by 7.4% compare to an full exotic set. It will also increase you weapons strength by 5%.

hybrid.5027:

And a warrior with those same buffs if 13,380. Soooooooooo?

And a warrior will have 13,380.

I was using 45005 because realistically thats what people actually run in most dungeons. I also don’t take into account rangers in DPS calculations because they aren’t in meta team comps. So that’s why our numbers differ.

The fact is Guardian dps in meta dungeon groups is less than warrior. You can argue over minutiae and which buffs you consider but the fact is at any level of group buffing warrior out DPSes Guardian.

To get 13 380dps you took the numbers from Dekeyz spreadsheet from a group with a ranger + warrior and you multiplied by 1.25 for account the vulnerability. Maybe I’m wrong, but you can do this with the Guardian because nothing changed about its dps since June 2014, but for the Warrior you can’t do that as it don’t account of the last nerf to the warrior dps?

And also, you did the same mistake as I did. You did (direct dmg + condition dmg) x 1.25. But vulnerability don’t work on condition.

Again. I genuinely trying to find out what are respective dps for a guardian and a warrior. If you want to compare it, you need to calculate it with the exact same buffs.

I’ll do some more test next time i’m in game. But in the mean time. There is something that I can’t understand. It seem there is difference between Dekeyz’s spreadsheet numbers and obal’s numbers.

hybrid.5027:

Thaddeus.4891:

hybrid.5027:

I just did the math for the fun of it.

Guardian sword auto with 45005 and 5 boons and 100% UC uptime and full party buffs = 8,365 dps.

TEW STORNK

Why 4/5/0/0/5? That’s a support build? That’s the build I proposed to new ppl in my guild when they want to learn to play the guardian but have a hard time to stay alive.

Take 4/6/2/0/2 if you want to use UC or 6/6/2/0/0 if you want the number without UC.

9.0-9.1K is with the build 6/6/2/0/0 and with 4/6/2/0/2 its about 8.6-8.7k with UC at zero uptime. Again only with sword-auto attack.

Yes please insult me more. It really proves your point. Please don’t lecture me on builds and what they are used for. And please don’t brag to me about your guild and what you suggest to noobs.

I wasn’t trying to insult you btw. Sorry if you felt it that way. I’m not lecturing you on build either. I’m just saying. I just think that its not really fair to compare the warrior best dps build versus the build of a support guardian.

How did I bragged about my guild?

Again. Sorry if you felt insulted. That’s not my goal here.

There is nothing wrong with farming. From time to time I farm a content because I want to reward. Sometimes i want to reward and like the content, like when I played fractal to reach level 50 on the first time. I did one or two level per day and it was super fun to do even if you could consider that farming. Other time I forced myself to do a lot of dungeon because I wanted the gold for my legendary. I like dungeon, but I did a bit more than I could enjoy. Still, that was my decision and I don’t regret it each time I see my Legendary. Other time, I don’t give a crap about the reward and I just play what I think is fun.

I also find competitive play fun. I like to do a dungeon run over and over to improve with my guild until we can do it super fast. I like to pass several hours in a dungeon for a solo run just to know that I can do it. I like to be in a competitive wvw guild where everybody have something specific to do and if I screw up somebody is gonna point it out.

These are not problem to the community. That’s is the community and what keep it going. People need to invest themselve in a part of the game to be competitive or go after a specific goal (aka farm) or otherwise they will go through the story and quit the game. Farming and competitivity are what make a MMO.

You know that metabattle give build that the community give? This is not all the build there is. If you only check Meta build in conquest all profession have 1 build except thief, engineer and ranger that have 2. If you check great build in conquest all profession have 1 build except Guardian and Ranger.

Its only when you check good build that you get a lot of Elementalist and Engineer build. You know why? This is probably 1 person that play a lot of Elementalist that wanted to put all possible build in sPvP for his profession and same thing for the other 2 profession. Not much ppl are posting stuff on metabattle and if this website if pretty complete for meta build, it’s far from having all possible good build. Not saying that Necro is good in PvE, but in sPvP, they can be powerful.

Ppl rush to get all three skin right away with bandit crest and complain again the extractor. Don’t get why seriously.

I play the map because its fun, diversified and really rewarding. I plan to hold on to my crest until they released all 18 pieces of the armor. Got 2 pieces from the story, 2 from drop and 1 from the PvP reward track without never using any crest. The extractor are worth using even if you don’t need any organ. They give you more crest when you sold them to the guys than the extractor cost, so you can just use extractor each time you do the breach for the additional crest and from time to time you get the organ you need for the collection. We probably gonna have 2 more updates in that map, don’t stress yourself and rush to get all pieces right aways or you’ll probably gonna get one of the pieces you already have latter in a drop.

Crafted my last 2 pieces of Ascended armor for my Thief. But I crafted them on my engineer, put them on my engineer, salvage the 2 exotics pieces of my engineer, took the 2 melandru runes and used them on my 2 ascended pieces.

Just to figure out that these 2 piece need to go on my thief, i salvaged 2 exotic for nothing and lost 2 melandru runes. kitten it. About 15 gold, not that bad, I just felt stupid.

Edge of the mist : Mesmer don’t have much AoE so Elementalist would be better there.

WvW : Elementalist is better in WvW zerg, there are one of the core profession for any zerg. Mesmer can be really good in coordinated group (portal bomb, veil, etc). If you prefer to roam. Mesmer are pretty solid in 1vs1, but Elementalist have more mobility (so less running time between fight).

sPvP : Two solid profession. Elementalist are in a really good place right now with D/D, but Mesmer is always a great addition in a match.

Overall, I think Elementalist would be better for you. They can fit in all situation even if you play alone. While Mesmer are usually a utility profession that work better in coordinated settings.

It depend on what you usually do and how many GS do you plan on crafting. Having several GS with different sigil is always a good choice (even if your other GS are exotic).

- Night/Force is perfect for the most profitable dungeon.
- Force/Accuracy for fractal, day dungeon or if you want only 1 GS that work everywhere.

But there is plenty of option depending on what you prefer.

Zixx.6582:

So is a support guardian not viable at all in PvE? She hasn’t decided which route she wishes to go however, knowing her she will be strongly focusing on PvE content. If it is viable, can you tell me what are the better choices. You also said you had some recommendations for WvW/PvP, if you don’t mind could you please share?

Ya its viable. But not the kind of support most ppl think about when they start the game. Guardian support in PvE is all about aegis, blind, reflection and protection. Healing and tankiness is not that useful in this game.

As a guardian, you support your team by preventing damage, not heal them after. Meta build have a huge focus on both DPS and Active Support. Like I said : blind, Aegis and reflection in dungeon and protection for fractal with the hammer.

hybrid.5027:

I just did the math for the fun of it.

Guardian sword auto with 45005 and 5 boons and 100% UC uptime and full party buffs = 8,365 dps.

TEW STORNK

Why 4/5/0/0/5? That’s a support build? That’s the build I proposed to new ppl in my guild when they want to learn to play the guardian but have a hard time to stay alive.

Take 4/6/2/0/2 if you want to use UC or 6/6/2/0/0 if you want the number without UC.

9.0-9.1K is with the build 6/6/2/0/0 and with 4/6/2/0/2 its about 8.6-8.7k with UC at zero uptime. Again only with sword-auto attack.

hybrid.5027:

BTW I am Nike.

Ranger DPS got a massve buff from an additional 10% modifier AND the superior longbow burst at the start of a fight.

Warrior DPS before the nerf was around 12k fully buffed. Guardian was around 10k fully buffed with 100% UC uptime. Warrior is now about 11.5k, Guardian is still 10k.

As I said, Guardian DPS is AIDS.

You link my calculator but don’t tell us what inputs you use, and you don’t account for condition damage. It’s not as simple as all that. Dekeyz numbers as a baseline are very accurate the only thing that has changed really is warrior nerfs and ranger buffs and a better engineer rotation.

I’ll never questionned your number for Warrior. Didn’t know that hyrid was nike and it don’t change anything. If you say that Warrior’s DPS was 12k before and 11.5k now, i’m alright with that, I can’t argue about that.

What I can argue is your number for the guardian. Fully buffed, a Guardian do more dmg than 10K even without UC. Like I said. A guardian auto-attacking with sword (which is the easiest thing to calculate) is about 9k dps fully buffed.
- According to Dekeyz’s spreadsheet. Guardian dps is 9.2k fully buffed (but with 25% UC uptime and zero vulnerability) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bAcpwAdwB24CxK_Ziy8ygISUHCkQepLfRMh2_PtP52o/edit#gid=1883199869

- According to Obal. Guardian dps is 10.8k fully buffed, but without any UC.
http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/12646847-guardian-dps-build-theory-by-obal-dekeyz

And If i do the math myself, I reach the same numbers. At this level the difference between Guardian and Warrior are not that high. We can argue, which one is higher in a specific situation, I have no problem with that. A slight error in the numbers and one can get in top of the other. But when you say that a Guardian with 100% uptime of UC do 10k dps, used to do 10K dps and continue to do 10K dps, then I’m gonna call it wrong. Just like you can call it wrong when I assume something about the Warrior since if you are Nike, you know more about that particular profession.

Edit : I’m stupid. It even easier than that. Like you said. Just take the numbers from Dekeyz spreadsheet. In a party with a DPS warrior and a Ranger, the maximum dps of a guardian is 9153. If you take into account vulnerability : 9153 × 1.25 = 11 441 dps.

So a Guardian 4/6/2/0/2 GS-Sw/F 25% UC fully buffed will have 11 441 dps. Not 10k dps with 100% UC.

HemmiHem.2357:

I’ve heard mutiple people say that the trait Empower Allies is no longer considerd ’’good’’. The reason for this would be that personal damage is better than giving the group more power.

Can someone plz help me understand this? Beceause imo 150 power is quite alot! And its not just 150 power for you but for your entire party of 5 people too.

With banner of strength being the most used banner, a banner which also gives power, i wonder why this trait is no longer loved?

Banner of Strength give you 170 power and only replace a utility skill. Empower Allies need that you give up too much in term of personnal dps in trait.

A build with Empower Allies give up about 20% in personnal dps, which is more dps lost than the 150 power for the whole group. But the different in total party dps is not that big and this is for good dungeon group where you can max your buff like might and have ascended stuff. At this point, your power is around 3,5-4k, making 150 power not that huge of a deal. In more normal party, where you have about 2-2.5k, 150 can make a bigger difference, making it more useful.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

@Thaddeus, the link you posted is saying June 2014. The ballance patch of September changed a lot. Ranger’s dps went up by 15% flat amount. Engi’s dps went up as well, not sure the exact numbers, while warriors dps dropped.

The ranking you posted :

Thief
Ele
Engi
Ranger
Warr
Guard
Mesm
Necro

It was posted by Nike on the link you provided. Which is as old as my link (My link was in the reddit post, same date).

Ok now it make more sense. Warrior was that high before the last nerf. Here the lasted information of warrior dps numbers. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H8FwevtNHMhoBQ7QkxYJF1W7DLTDkuKtA_oNSk4OOes/edit#gid=1347975015

Its from Nike. And as you can see the dps of the warrior now is down to 10.3k dps (full buff including vulnerability), which is lower than Guardian.