Guild Wars 2

Thrown elixirs removes boons from foes.

Done.

Good points. I’ll add them to the original post.

Also, no need to feel bad about tearing it apart. Makes me closer to the truth with more peer review.

Empowering Adrenaline vs Incendiary Powder

Empowering Adrenaline: 5% more damage while endurance is not full.

Incendiary Powder: Critical hits cause burning for 4 seconds (10 second recharge).

Which deals more damage?

Formula for burning:

(0.25 * Condition Damage) + (4 * Level) + 8 = Condition damage per tick

This build assumes 0 condition damage.

(4 * Level) + 8 damage per second = Condition damage per tick

328 damage = Condition damage per tick

1312 damage over 4 seconds

Single Target

So, if Empowering Adrenaline was to assist your build with the same amount of damage, it would have to add 1312 damage. How much damage do we need to deal for Empowering Adrenaline to add 1312 damage?

This would just be 1312 × 20 (Because that would be equal to 1/20th or 5% of the total damage dealt). This means you would need to deal 26,240 damage to the target while your endurance is not full for this trait to supply equal damage.

Multiple targets

If you hit multiple people, incendiary powder grants you the same damage. Empowering Adrenaline, however, multiplies its damage depending on how many people you hit:

If you hit 2 people you need to deal 13,120 damage to each person to be equally effective.

If you hit 3 people you need to deal 8,747 damage to each person to be equally effective.

If you hit 4 people you need to deal 6,560 damage to each person to be equally effective.

If you hit 5 people you need to deal 5248 damage to each person to be equally effective.

Keep in mind, this is how much damage you need to deal within 10 seconds before Incendiary powder would proc again. Can you deal 5248 damage in 10 seconds? I hope so.

Namely, it’s not an honest comparison to consider a build fully geared out for grenades to compare that damage to a build with 0 condition damage or duration. Not to mention the fact that getting the Grenadier trait is going to give you a +30% burn duration, giving you 5 ticks not 4. This means you would have to do 32,800 damage every 10 seconds (really 8 if you count the dodging) to keep up with Incendiary Powder even at a ridiculous 0 condition damage. Highly unlikely.

~Adamantium

With that in mind, let’s try full condition damage.

1,700 * .25 + 328 = 753 damage

3012 damage over 4 seconds.

This means you would need to deal:

60240 damage against 1 target every 10 seconds. (Impossible)

30120 damage against 2 targets every 10 seconds. (Highly Unlikely)

20080 damage against 3 targets every 10 seconds. (Unlikely)

15060 damage against 4 targets every 10 seconds. (Unlikely)

12048 damage against 5 targets every 10 seconds. (Unlikely)

In short, condition damage builds make this a no brainer.

Verdict

1) Incendiary Powder shines in condition damage builds that are single target. Good for Hot Join and Tournaments. If you have any condition damage in your build, it’s probably better to take this.
2) Empowering Adrenaline shines in power builds that are multi-target. Good for PvE and WvW.
3) It might be a good idea to buff this skill a little bit. Maybe bring it to 7-10%.

Net turret, Rocket Turret and Healing Turret are the three most commonly taken turrets.

I only have one other thing to say:

Deployable turrets + Rocket turret + Temple of the Silent Storm (Temple Point).

Look up.

1) Turrets attack your target.
2) Traits for gadgets
3) Flamethower buffs

I run condition in PvP
I run power in PvE WvW and PvP

digiowl.9620:

Simple, it is the hardest hitting ranged attack the engineer has available.

And as a aside, to juggle multiple kits (or attunements, as the two come very close) should be a option rather than a requirement.

If that’s not the gameplay you like, Engineer might not be the class for you. That’s really the whole point. We don’t have weapon swaps, just kit swaps. If you aren’t utilizing that, you’re not playing this class to it’s full potential.

Punkins.2087:

The real question is why you are sitting in one kit spamming autoattack.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Acid bomb without a snare? Rocket boots over Elixir S/R? I think you just played bad players. Elixir gun isn’t a good kit for Forest because the mid point is so large. It’s only passable on the smaller points. Flamethrower is decent if they ball up, but in that case why aren’t you going Grenades? What’s more obvious of damage when focusing as a team than flamethrower? This should be an attempt a bunker at the very most, and rocket boots really don’t fit into that equation.

No. Never. There is so much utility to having this be ground targeted. This is a high skill high reward kit. The devs will never make this happen because it’s a bad idea. Just practice. Also, how the hell does your hand hurt doing this? It’s pushing keys! God forbid you have to write an essay in your life time.

Know what? I’m done here. Maybe someday you’ll realize offense is the best defense, especially in this game. Yeah, I could devote my entire build to be tankier, or I can stay out of the way, dodge and kill stuff. Hell, for most of the content in this game I can walk right up to enemies and blow them up without worrying about dying anyways. Yes, even Arah and Fractals. You may call it a playstyle, but I call it being optimal.

Phineas Poe.3018:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1) I’m sorry, did I kick your dog or something? Cool it with the sarcasm. Sorry I don’t know about a bug with a rune that I don’t use.

No. I’m just really sick and tired of people coming onto the official forums talking about things they have no experience using.

This thread is rife with it. It’s pretty clear that you don’t have much experience integrating the FT and the EG together. So maybe take a moment and let those of us that have talk freely.

Why do you assume that? Engineer is the only class that I actively use. I’ve tried to make the flamethrower be good multiple times. I’ve seen and used Flamethrower and Elixir Gun together. It’s really not as great as you make it sound. Grenades have always been the king of this class. It’s too good to throw away for crappy 425 range damage. The support gained from Elixir Gun can be done with Grenades. The difference, as shone is minimal. The most difference you could have is 300 more healing power. This equates to about 30 healing per tick.

You’re taking this whole thing way to personally. Stop thinking you know everything and just attempt to prove it without being sarcastic and rude.

Phineas Poe.3018:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Or you could take Med kit and get those 3 stacks every 10 seconds instead of every 15-20. Instead of flamethrower, you could take Elixir U for amazing party defense, Elixir S for an easy res, Elixir Gun…the list goes on. Taking flamethrower for the fire field is a waste of a skill slot.

1. You can’t get 3 stacks every 10 seconds with the Med Kit because it has an internal cooldown of 15 seconds. There is a typo in the tooltip. Of course, you’d know this if you actually tried the build and weren’t looking at everything strictly on paper.

2. Elixir R gives the “easy res,” not Elixir S.

3. I’m not taking the Flamethrower for its Fire field. I’m taking it for everything it does, including the Fire field. Besides, where’s the utility slot controversy? Last I checked the Grenade Kit took up the same amount of space—one slot.

1) I’m sorry, did I kick your dog or something? Cool it with the sarcasm. Sorry I don’t know about a bug with a rune that I don’t use.

2) Elixir S is an easy res. Being invulnerable makes resing a lot easier. I don’t usually take Elixir R just because the stun breaker isn’t as good and the res skill has a ~87-120 second recharge. Still a great skill though. Also, please try to make points by making points instead of looking for things you think are slightly factually wrong.

3) Again, break up your argument into PvE, PvP and WvW. It changes from place to place. In that “One Slot” it does a LOT of stuff. Elixir S in it’s one slot does A LOT for any build. In a build, you need to make sure the three utilities you are bringing are the best ones you can bring.

Also, in PvP, one slot is a kit, one slot is a stun breaker. That really only leaves you with one slot.

I love how people always make this point, but Grenade Kit Engineers don’t take Fireforged Trigger and Deadly Mixture. So yes, a GK Engineer can take the Elixir Gun and pretend to think they’re using it as good as an FT Engineer does, but the fact of the matter is that they don’t.

And they don’t take Runes of Altruism. They take Condition Duration runes.

Most of the time, power and critical damage is the way to go besides HGH builds.

PvP – Divinity, Scholar, Ogre or Str,Fire,Hoelbreak. All of them are power/might based.

WvW – Divinity, Scholar, Ogre.

PvE – Divinity, Scholar, Ogre.

Besides, if I’m going support, I take some sort of support rune with my grenade kit.

Instead of opinions, here’s some facts:

These are the numbers if you stay inside of the healing field for the entire duration on recharge. I’m ignoring the 1/2 second to get this on the ground for simplicity’s sake.

1255/3430 (Full Heal Bunker).
One Shot: 4,685
Per minute without recharge buff: 14,055
Per minute with recharge buff: 17,569 (rounded up)
Difference: 3,514 (20%)

I had more data but the difference is pretty clear here. If you take that trait, you will heal 20% more with Super Elixir over 1 minute. This all said, there’s nothing really stopping me from taking this trait. My current spread in PvE is this:

30/10/10/0/20.

30 For grenadier.
10 For the rifle recharge and range (So I can use jump shot more)
10 For 50% fall damage (WvW)
20 For Critical Damage, Speedy Kits and Deployable turrets (WvW).

There’s nothing stopping me from going 30/0/0/20/20 if I wanted to go support. I’d lose absolutely nothing in terms of damage (maybe some precision might hurt, but that’s what food is for). The only reason I go 30/10/10/0/20 is because I do a lot of jumping puzzles and those two abilities are amazing for them.

Seras.5702:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Why not just use Grenades with Elixir Gun? That’s what I do and it works great.

Been thinking about it. Didn’t know if it’d still be as good without the traits that I get by default with FT. I suppose I’d still have #5 for heals, just not on the reduced CD. I’ve been experimenting with that 3rd utility. Bomb kit for fire bomb/BoB, EG for Super Elixir, Elixir U for quickness/reflect. Does U work very well with grenades due to the nature of their mechanics?

Very well. I use it more for Toss Elixir U, but the quickness is great from far away.

This is so false. What, do you run nothing but CoF all day and think the rest of PvE is like that? Not only are there plenty of bosses in this game that have mechanics that injure both melee and ranged classes alike, but there are several in this game that require you to stand in melee range otherwise you would die.
The idea that Grenade Kit Engineers just stroll through PvE content from 1,500 range never having to worry about anything is just as flawed as saying that Bomb Kit Engineers just faceroll PvE pressing 1 over and over, never having to re-orient themselves or dodge AoE.

Uhh. Yeah. I do that all the time. There really aren’t that many bosses that require melee range. Subject Alpha is about all I can think of atm. Most others are MUCH easier from a range. Melee is generally suicide without significant defense. Also, it’s not like grenades are like Arrow Carts. We can deal damage up close and personal too.

What?
The Healing Turret can be placed in half a second. Dropping it procs Altruism’s 3 stacks of Might and Fury along with detonating it in Napalm for another Area Might. And Acid Bomb does A LOT of damage when you spec for Power and Critical Damage, doing over 2.5K damage a second on top of another Area Might.
It takes me literally no time at all to do this. Like two seconds.

Or you could take Med kit and get those 3 stacks every 10 seconds instead of every 15-20. Instead of flamethrower, you could take Elixir U for amazing party defense, Elixir S for an easy res, Elixir Gun…the list goes on. Taking flamethrower for the fire field is a waste of a skill slot.

A lot of the arguments you’re making are things that could be done with a Grenade Kit + Skill combo. The only thing you’ve say for Flamethrower is that it has a great CC (which it does) and a long fire field (which it does). Grenade Kit’s list of useful stuff goes on and on and on. Yeah. You could use Acid Bomb for a great 2.5k damage (I’ve seen it, it’s great). I could do that with grenade kit too (Run in, pop it off, and spam more). I wouldn’t even need to run back in to deal damage. I could just continue spamming grenades.

Phineas Poe.3018:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Grenade kit does literally all of that. It stacks 14 vulnerability on average (25 spikes). 3 stacks of bleeding minimum every 6 seconds, great direct damage, burning from traits, chilled, poison and blind. Did I mention you’re 1,500 range away?

…And?

Air Blast is a 15 (or 12) second knockback/interrupt. It is the best one we have. Let me repeat that for you: It is the best knockback that Engineers have. It can additionally be used as a projectile reflect.

Napalm is tied with Hallowed Ground as the longest duration Fire field in the game—on a third of the cooldown. With a Hammer Guardian and myself we get our group to 18-21 stacks of Might no problem. But to you it’s not worth using. Apparently.

Smoke Vent may not offer a lot currently, but right now it is still a skill that can blind foes while we are stunned, which has saved me from being downed a lot more times than I can count.

Juggernaut gives 200 passive Toughness, which means you’re significantly more survivable with the Flamethrower than you are with the Grenade Kit when wearing full Berserker/Rampager gear.

You just are. Do you do as much damage? No. Of course not. Because the Flamethrower falls under “tanky DPS” while the Grenade Kit screams “glass cannon.” The Grenade Kit is the best ranged DPS in the entire game. Of course it will outperform the Flamethrower and it always should. If that’s your preference then continue to use the Grenade Kit. But don’t come on here, on the official forums, saying that the Flamethrower doesn’t offer any DPS at all—or that my DPS is “not helpful.”

It’s hyperbole.

Let’s break up the argument a bit:

PvE:

Why on earth would ~10% less damage matter (200 toughness = ~10% less damage)? Anything that’s remotely difficult is going to be doing such high damage that being that close is nearly suicide unless you’re full tank. If it’s not difficult content, then again, 10% less damage doesn’t matter. We’re also ignoring the fact that if you are nuking from 1,500 range, nothing is attacking you.

WvW:

For charges, these end up being semi-equal. Flamethrower is a bit better at tagging and grenade kit is better for damage and snare. Air blast isn’t extremely useful for charges, but it tends to shine more for keeping people charging out of a point. Although, 5 target limit makes that kinda moot. Grenade kit is a bit better here because it can completely deny that area by spam.

PvP:

HGH Grenade? Crit damage grenades? 100 nades? There’s really no contest here unless you’re using it for utility and the toolbelt skill for condition damage.

Is air blast the best CC we have? Sort of. It really depends on what you’re fighting. If you’re fighting 1v1, I think overcharged shot does the job better since you can immobilize them as they’re standing up. I will say this though, it’s an amazing skill and I definitely agree it’s one of the best parts of flamethrower.

Smoke Vent is actually a decent skill. It’s really good for stomping people in PvP (Guardians, Rangers, Engineers, Warriors).

Napalm is awful. No. Just awful. Lemme break it down again:

PvE:

If you are prestacking might, there are many other options for fire fields. At this point it doesn’t really matter. Nothing is attacking you.

If you are stacking mid fight, you are spending time and recharges on getting a few stacks of might, which is approximately 2% more damage. Thing is, during this time, you could be attacking, increasing the party damage by A LOT more. Skills like Empower do this MUCH better (12 stacks, real quick). HGH is a decent way to do this too (Thrown elixirs).

This is low damage as any other burning damage from the group will either be overridden or will override this. It’s also really not that incredible of damage.

WvW:

All might stacks are prefight. It doesn’t matter what fire field you use. Everyone is throwing them down and everyone is blast finishing.

Using this for damage in WvW makes absolutely no sense.

PvP:

If you are prestacking, it’s functional, and you can always just switch it out before the battle starts.

If you are stacking in battle, give up. Battles are way to mobile and active for that to be a good idea.

If you attempt to use this for damage…No. No one will ever stand in a wall like this. And if they do, they take what? 500-800 damage once? You have no snares to keep them in it.

Seras.5702:

I’ve been swapping back n’ forth between FT & grenades pretty regularly. I’ve found that I can keep the same gear (zerker/rampager mix, altruism runes, battle sigil) with both. ‘Nades are a straight ranged damage kit. I use EG with FT and tend to play a more support style. Since FT’s damage can’t match grenades, even with a few dedicated traits, I like to use it to its fullest potential: spread burning & vuln, create fire combo field, pbaoe blind, pressure reduction knockback, sawp to EG heal field, EG weakness/poison/cripple, back to FT, repeat.

In CoE I take FT/EG and faceroll the dungeon. In CoF, I prefer to keep my range and mobility and use grenades.

Why not just use Grenades with Elixir Gun? That’s what I do and it works great.

nakoda.4213:

that’s because the FT is not a “DPS” kit…

Well, look at it this way:

What is the purpose of skill 1? AoE multi-procing damage right?

What is the purpose of skill 2? AoE damage.

What is the purpose of skill 4? Combo field and AoE damage.

What does Juggernaut do? Gives you stacks of might (More damage).

What does Deadly mixture do? Make you deal more damage.

What does reduced recharge allow for? More damage.

Everything in this kit points to dealing more damage, yet when compared to the utility and amazingness of grenades, it’s no contest. It’s not just a problem of needing more damage, it’s a problem of needing it’s own niche while dealing comparable damage. To be effective, you need to be stacking lots of might and have 25 stacks of bloodlust. Even then, you still are held back by skill 4 being terrible, and damage that’s still inferior to grenades.

Phineas Poe.3018:

The Flamethrower does perfectly fine DPS. I’ve been farming CoE p1 the past couple weeks for Charged Lodestones and have consistently cleared it in about 30 minutes. Knowledge of content and player skill level has a lot more to do with successful dungeon runs than what build you’re using—especially when we’re talking about DPS.

Saying player skill is the biggest factor is a terrible point to make. It’s like saying the chef is what really matters, even if all the food he cooks with is totally rotten. Obviously, we’re assuming that the person playing these builds is skilled. The only thing we’re judging is if the build in the hands of a pro is good.

It applies consistent 5-6 stacks of Vulnerability and Bleed on top of good direct damage and Burning.

Grenade kit does literally all of that. It stacks 14 vulnerability on average (25 spikes). 3 stacks of bleeding minimum every 6 seconds, great direct damage, burning from traits, chilled, poison and blind. Did I mention you’re 1,500 range away?

Look, I enjoy flamethrower as much as the next guy, but I’ve only found 1 good spec, and that’s jumping in and out for the utility, not the damage. The best DPS spec I’ve found was with REALLY high precision and power. I was able to do decent damage, but I had to be really close up to my targets and it was all for less damage in the end. Not to mention I lost the ability to attack while running away.

Phineas Poe.3018:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

If you want to be helpful with damage, you have no choice but to take grenades. Period.

My Flame Jet regularly does 4-5K damage every 2.25 seconds at level 80, both inside and outside of dungeons.

2.25 seconds is the key. Grenades hit even second or so. Just the auto attack deals about 2k-3k damage. In two seconds, that’s 4k-6k damage. Grenade barrage throws in a 10k-14k damage. Shrapnel Grenade is about 6k easily.

It’s really no comparison. Not to mention, it’s 1,500 range.

Kamahl.3621:

In CoE, I was easily hitting for 12k with it on both parts, on a < 1 second cast time point blank.

Pics or it didn’t happen. I’ve never been able to make that hit for more than 6k total at the very very very very very max.

Tareck.4853:

Miffinator.3046:

The WvW Grenade build is arguably the most favored build for many engineers. However there are some major downsides to the grenade build. Yes it’s good DPS. Yes it’s condition dmg is really good. Yes paired with a rifle you have tons of CC and plenty of Utility. It seems like this is great. Yet, what is the downside? Skillshot. Some players will argue that it’s better this way. Imagine this I have 2 beers in 2 different refrigerators both beers are the same, however the refrigerators are on two different floors and one is behind a locked door (which you have the key to). The only benefit to the upstairs refrigerator is that’s a major brand name refrigerator comparable to all major brands. The downstairs one is a USSR model, still keeps your beer cold though. Getting tired? Well the point was to show that you have to put in a little extra effort to be comparable to other things. The point is Why. Why is that other people can simply click on someone and push buttons and we have to predict where they’re moving aim fire and push buttons all while on the run. It just seems so tedious and annoying.

I totally agree with you on that point, the grenade should not use ground trageting but should be throw like they are when your character is underwater !!

NO! Definitely not! Ground targeting allows it to be this powerful. Making it like under water would be a GIANT nerf. Also, ground targetting allows for area denial, which is the whole point.

Soon.5240:

The fact is that Engineers are just fun. I’ve rolled over 1,250 hours as one, and only around 30 combined as the other classes. Not one day goes by when I don’t laugh out loud at how ridiculous the combination of kits and weapons are. Dropping nails, pulling someone with a magnet, wacking them with a prybar — then fumigating them and dropping an acid bomb, then bopping out to the shooting them with a bolt of lightening from your belt buckle… I mean, come on, what other class can come close to this much fun.

Nothing can beat that.

Favorite stupid build so far: Full power and crit damage Elixir Gun with net turret. Stupidest build I’ve made to date, but god kitten it is it funny to kill people with it xD

Numot.3965:

The damage on the flamethrower isn’t all that bad. It’s just that nades get a 50% boost in effectiveness from grenadier, which is pretty nuts.

It used to be pretty bad, now it’s actually pretty nice. Game isn’t all about damage folks, sometimes team support and utility are needed.

That’s fair, but three of the skills are pure damage skills. 1 2 and 4. If you try to use this for damage, you’re doing it wrong, yet 3/5 of the kit is designed to be damage. Sure, we can just use this for utility, but in the end it’s still a kit with 3 totally worthless skills.

Donut.6914:

I’m not sure what class you’re playing, but a fully geared DPS grenade spammer is the best zerg buster in the game. That’s one role right there.

*for a PvP or WvW setting.

The point is Why. Why is that other people can simply click on someone and push buttons and we have to predict where they’re moving aim fire and push buttons all while on the run. It just seems so tedious and annoying.

Because we have condition spam, easily attainable 25 stacks of vulnerability, huge damage and 1,500 range. Grenades are best for area denial and running away. Using it in 1v1 situations is difficult, but definitely possible. In general, switch to another kit or weapon for close up.

Specterryu Quipter.8412:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Here are two problems I see with the engineer class as a whole:

1) Flamethrower is the worst kit, yet almost unanimously the first kit that new engineers gravitate towards.
2) If you want to be helpful with damage, you have no choice but to take grenades. Period.

While I agree that the flamethrower is no longer viable, I think you are forgetting about our Bomb kit. Which, if traited, can heal your group and do a significant amount of dps in PvE, WvW, and sPvP. Oh, did I mention the combo fields?

No where near the speed and range of grenades though. It’s fantastic kit, but it’s really all about point defense and bunkering.

nakoda.4213:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

…Those are pretty all over the place.

more than one way to skin a cat. if you took the time to read the thread instead of just spark notes the build numbers, you might learn a thing or two about the FT play style.

for further information, i suggest you do some research on worm-mucking.

I’ve worked with the flamethrower a LOT. I’ve made power, crit damage, condition, support, utility…pretty much every type of build you can imagine. I’ve taken build from other people…Seriously. A lot. I’ve probably desperately tried to make this work at least 20-25 separate times. It’s just not good. The only way to use it is to pop in and use the utility skills. If you use skill 1 2 or 4, you’re not being effective. All I’m suggesting is to make skill 1 2 and 4 useful, thus making the kit worth it. Not just as random pop ins, but as a kit as a whole.

Seras.5702:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Warriors deal 40k damage with a six second recharge skill. Grenades can hit for 3k every 1 second from 1,500 range + condition damage. That’s not even using grenade barrage.

So the title of this thread could also be “every weapon except GS is worthless for Warriors.” You’re trying to make an argument by stating the highest-dps spec makes all other kits/weapons awful.

Also, the purpose of Napalm isn’t for high damage. It’s to maintain burning for the +10% dmg from FT#1. I’d love to see a blast finisher on FT too, but with the #2 having a 6s (iirc) cooldown, that’d be OP. The kit has burning, high damage-low cooldown skill, aoe blind, knockback, fire field. Seems fine to me.

Also, it has great range than warrior GS and it doesn’t require the enemy to stand still while you channel the skill.

PvE Enemies don’t move that much. A dead enemy makes your team rally, so damage is king in PvE. You are not that much safer from 425 range. Skill 2 is not powerful by any means. If it doesn’t critical, which is common, it’ll do about 2000 + 1000 damage (3000). If you really spec for it, 4k-4.5k total. That’s not high damage at all. Fire field would be great if we had a decent blast finisher. Burning stacks duration, not intensity. More burning delays strong burning. The kit naturally works against itself by doing that.

Final Point: Flamethrower just looks awesome.

I could agree more, and that’s why this kit makes me weep. Beautiful hunk of junk =/.

JubeiTM.5763:

Lupanic.6502:

FT is not an damage kit. It gives you condition damage and utililty.

So and so. I use it in PVE on my full berserker engineer dealing over 4000 damage. If people should say it is not as powerful as a Warrior, they should know that besides having a greater range, I can move while firing and constantly lead monster to the wall of fire I have created. And that Wall of fire damages for another 500/tick. Napalm every few seconds and I’m good to go.

However to be completely honest. In order to be worthwhile there should be two improvements:

1) the direct damage should be increased by 30%.
2) The range should be increased from 450 to 600

Warriors deal 40k damage with a six second recharge skill. Grenades can hit for 3k every 1 second from 1,500 range + condition damage. That’s not even using grenade barrage.

Chaith.8256:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Lupanic.6502:

Teldo is playing at top level with the FT.

I’ve seen it. It’s horrible. It’s three horrible utility skills with random traits.

I’m sure I’m not alone here in saying: … Wat?

Saw a really old version of the build. Ignore that part.

Look at :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Nakoda-s-FT-S-TPvP-Guide-Updated-05-07-13/first#post1986036

We have many possibilities for the FT.

It is completely unsatisfying for you. From my point of view it is fine and I do not want a new overpowered build for the engineer with a cool kit so that every winning team joiner is now playing engineer instead of thief/ele or ranger.

…Those are pretty all over the place. Not to mention the damage on the ones going for damage aren’t even close to Grenades. The ones for support aren’t even close to bomb kit and elixir gun. That’s really what’s wrong with flamethrower. It’s a master of none kit and it shows.

Lupanic.6502:

FT is not an damage kit. It gives you condition damage and utililty. in the right hands it works well. Look at teldo streams he is able to handle 1vs3 against top player. He is chain killing BM ranger. Decap vs 2.

FT is not that bad.

I saw his other FT build. It’s a condition spike build. He’s using it so that he can go pistol shield instead of pistol pistol. That’s great and all, but is that really how a flamethrower should be? Read my post again. It’s not about this being useless. It’s about it not acting as it should and having mutliple skills that do nearly nothing.

Watch this stream: http://www.twitch.tv/teldoo/b/401770428

He never uses skill 2. Ever. Skill 1 he only uses to get damage ready for a mesmer portal. Same with skill 4. In the end, it did jack.

In short: Yes. You can use flamethrower, but the way you use it is completely unsatisfying and the way you want to use it is completely useless.

Lupanic.6502:

Teldo is playing at top level with the FT. So I guess it cannot be that bad.

I’ve seen it. It’s horrible. It’s three horrible utility skills with random traits.

Saw a really old version of the build with Rocket Boots, Slick Shoes, Flamethrower and Elixir H. Ignore that part.

The way to use this atm is as a utility kit, which doesn’t feel right.

Here are two problems I see with the engineer class as a whole:

1) Flamethrower is the worst kit, yet almost unanimously the first kit that new engineers gravitate towards.
2) If you want to be helpful with damage, you have no choice but to take grenades. Period.

There are two reasons to take this kit:

Incendiary Ammo – Great burning. However, the trait really does this for you already.

Air Blast – Great CC. Comparable to mesmer greatsword 5.

The problem is, no one wants to use this kit the way you should. To be effective with it, you need to pop in, blow air blast/Smoke Vent and pop right back out. Trying to deal damage with this is futile in comparison to other options. That feels really wrong. When I take the Juggernaut trait, I want to be a real juggernaut.

Also, This kit has way too many options, bad and good, for burning. Burning enters a queue to do it’s damage. It’s not like bleeding. More options for burning is BAD. Instead, this kit should have one decent and spammable option (skill 1) and one powerful burn (tool belt).

Here’s some suggestions:

Flame Jet: Burn foes. 100-300 damage. Burning 1s (100-500 damage each application). Applies 4 times in two seconds.

Reasoning

It feels very weird to only have the last hit on this skill cause burning. It’s much more satisfying to have every single hit burn your foe.

Flame Blast: Ground targeted. Increased damage on blast to 1200-1900. Trail does no damage. This is now a blast finisher. Also causes a stack of bleeding (500-1000 damage over 10 seconds). Recharge 12 seconds.

Reasoning

Ground targeted skills are amazingly useful and the damage on this skill is seriously lacking. It would also give some of the flavor that grenade kit has to this kit. The damage on this skill is currently horrible, yet it’s the only way to damage foes. This being a blast finisher allows napalm to be used more skillfully. The bleed is to allow for some more damage over time that isn’t just burning.

Napalm: Circle. Radius 240. Does not cause burning. Instead it deals 200-500 damage per second someone is inside the field. Causes crippled while in the field.

Reasoning

No one will use this to create fire projectiles and there are two few good in combat options for blast finishers for engineers. This being a circle makes it a bit easier to be effective with this skill and makes it a legitimate way to deal damage to foes. This is also a melee kit that has no good options for snare built into the kit.

OR

Napalm: Wall. Now burns up enemy projectiles that cross it. Damage remains the same but again: Doesn’t cause burning. Causes direct damage. Causes a longer cripple if you cross the field.

Reasoning

This is a defensive version of the last skill. Cripple is increased since it’s less likely anyone will run through a wall, although it can stop fleeing foes.

Smoke Vent: This is now a blast finisher. Deals 200-500 damage.

Reasoning

Works well with napalm and helps stack more might for this kit’s damage.

Rename to Engi + Crappy guy vs a bunch of crappy players.

Great playing none the less.

Unless the dungeon is super hard, there is no reason to take anything but a warrior. A Warrior can critical for 40,000 damage in one hit. That’s the low end. That means every six seconds, 5 warriors could hit for 200,000 damage. When things are dying that fast and the content is that easy, you don’t even need to heal. Just rally off of the bloody mess you and your team is making.

I don’t think the engineer is necessarily underpowered (Although there are buffs to be made). I think the warrior has just so horribly broken the curve that other classes seem to have “Like no damage”.

I love you. Seriously.

Med Kit

1) Great for Speedy Kits and The Vigor Trait
2) Condition removal every 15 seconds.
3) Speed boosts
4) Fury
5) You can set up to have a 12k heal ready for the next fight by placing them in advance.

Elixir H

1) HGH
2) Cleaning Formula 409
3) Random boon

Healing Turret

1) Water Field
2) Blast Finisher
3) AoE condition removal and heal
4) Party wide regeneration

Dirame.8521:

Soon.5240:

Flame thrower is pretty much a power/damage weapon — not a condition weapon.

This is the reason why you guys can never figure out how to use the FT. IT IS VERY MUCH A CONDI WEAPON, if not more so than it is a power weapon because really, how much damage can you do with it in a power build anyway?

It’s neither a power or a condition weapon. It’s a flashy weapon. The damage sucks both condition and power wise. Trying to use it for damage is just screwing yourself.

Problems

1) Utility Goggles synergizes with high power and crit damage builds as it gives vulnerability and fury, however your entire build is based around condition damage.
2) You don’t have a kit and you don’t have a reduced recharge rate on your pistols, so for most of the battle you’ll be auto attacking.
3) You’re traiting for increased damage with explosions, but there’s only one explosion in the build every 15 seconds.

Tips

1) Always take at least one kit. If you are stuck auto attacking, you’re useless to your team.
2) When posting a build, mention what it is for. If this is for PvE, throw this out entirely because condition damage is terrible there. If this is for PvP, that changes things.
3) Take Elixir S unless there is a REALLY good reason not to. Seriously. Free stomps, stealth and stability are HIGHLY worth it.
4) Ask yourself three questions when choosing a skill, rune or sigil: Why am I taking this, what does this synergize with and does anything do the job better?
5) When designing a build, ask yourself what the purpose of this build is. What does this build need to be able to do into combat for you to consider it successful? Is this build a bunker? Condition damage? Team Support? Roamer?
6) Remember that if you choose to take a non-kit over a kit, you are passing up 6 skills for just 2. Those two skills better be pretty amazing for that to make sense. Most of the gadgets don’t. Throw Mine is fairly close. Utility Goggles can be in certain builds (Not this one, however). The rest, while you may get some decent effect, are not superior to taking an entire kit.

Suggestions

1) Remove Utility Goggles. It makes no sense in this build.
2) Add a kit. The current best ways to use HGH are with Grenade Kit and Flamethrower. I highly suggest Grenade Kit over Flamethrower. Switching your grandmaster in Explosives to Grenadier would be a nice addition if you take Grenade Kit.

It’s a sub par weapon, but my god is it an amazing weapon. Definitely doesn’t compare in power to grenades for damage or bombs for support, but when it comes to feeling like a bad kitten that’s the kit to go for. Of course new players latch on to it. Why wouldn’t they?

So, guys. This kitten already exists as 25 v 25. The “Targeted Heal” is when you stack up and blast finish. The Guild Lord could be an extremely tough guy like Siegerazer that never regenerates health.

PvP Fantastic. One of the best professions right now. Even if our top build gets nerfed, we’re still a very viable class.

WvW Decent. Grenades make us a kitten to fight on walls since a few well placed power grenades can stop people from staying on siege. The 1,500 range is also very nice. Turrets can be thrown up on walls to take out left alone siege to prepare for an attack. Healing turret is a great water field and one of the few in the game. Past that, other classes have more utility in zergs.

PvE Warriors are so broken that other classes seem weak in comparison. I personally don’t think that engineers are bad. Instead, I think warriors are OP. You’ll need to go full power and crit with grenades if you want to be moderately effective. More useful in harder content as our support (Healing) is actually fairly good.

I think this goes in the guild recruiting area. Also, you list a ton of requirements but no mention of what we get if we join.

Proof that PvE is kittening simple.

Sabull is there with the first two.

The Heal bunker changes a bit and has a lot of variants but here’s the basic set up:

Med Kit
Optional (Tool Kit, Elixir S, Elixir B, Elixir Gun)
Bomb Kit
Optional (Tool Kit, Elixir S, Elixir B, Elixir Gun)

0/0/30/20/20
(Take Tool Kit and the Power Wrench Trait)

OR

0/0/30/30/10
(Elixir Gun Version)

Gaffles.3296:

I’m curious how effective deployable turrets can be at taking out seige just out of reach of our grenades or the mesmers zerker phantasm. Does anyone have any experience with this tactic.

It can be effective and you shouldn’t throw the idea out. Sometimes it attacks random people, but when it does work, it’s great. Rocket Turret and Flame turrets are great for this (They have AoE). Rifle Turret is great if the siege is the only thing it could possibly attack.

both require the same setup an immobilize or stun or knockdown to land hundred blades dont give vulnerability but gives might stacks wich gives the same result. 1 might =1.5% damage if im not mistaken

…You aren’t really trying to compare 100blades to 100nades, are you? It’s really no contest. 100nades could instantly kill most people. 100blades takes longer and it cannot kill most people. Not to mention 100blades is incredibly obvious and easy to catch. 100nades doesn’t need a snare. It PULLS them to you and puts them in perfect position. Seriously. No contest.

Nope. Just boon hate. Kinda make sense.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They obviously don’t want engineer to have a high burst damage or have good sustained damage either.

I have to disagree with this. The Grenade Kit and Bomb Kit both have very good sustained damage. And Static Discharge has great burst damage.

They just took issue with 100nades, doing tons of damage by literally pressing two buttons. Warriors can do this with Hundred Blades, sure, but that requires you being immobilized in place and is a cleave versus AoE.

Hundred blades is also not instant, doesn’t pull the foe to you and doesn’t stack 18 stacks of vulnerability.

Turrets are one of the few things that separates engi from other classes. Take deployable turrets and throw your power turrets on walls of keeps and tower to take out siege that other classes can’t reach. Just switch them out when you need them and have Deployable Turrets ready. I generally run:

Tool Kit
Grenade Kit
Elixir U

and switch it out to be

Rocket Turret
Grenade Kit
Rifle Turret

Deployable turrets trait is ALWAYS on.

PvP

We’re amazing as always. Our three main builds are HGH Grenade, Power Grenade and Bomb Kit Bunker. There are some other builds which are variant of these.

PvE

Warrior is breaking the curve, but we’re not terrible. We certainly have a lot of damage with grenade kit, even if we aren’t hitting for 40k crits like warriors. Stick to grenades if you want to be useful.

WvW

Deployable Turrets on walls can take out siege other classes could only dream of hitting. Grenades are great at keeping people off of flame rams. They’re also great at area denial.

Patches

We’ve been nerfed and lost some great builds, although admittedly they were over powered. We’ve gained some minor buffs. Overall, we’re still a great class in the PvP area and a decent class when not compared to the overpowered monstrosity that is the warrior in PvE.

I tPvP fairly often as an engineer (HGH grenade, Power Grenade, Engi Bomb Bunker etc). For most of the maps, we’re doing great. All except for Spirit Watch. For some reason I do not understand what we’re doing wrong or what on Earth the other team is doing so well that they beat us 250 to 500. What do most teams do to win on this map? I really don’t get what I could do better.

Normally we do a 1 3 1 split (1 on raven, 3 on orb, 1 on home). From there, the raven guy (usually me) heads to the orb to help. One of our teams usually ends up getting crushed. Thing is, we’ve tried 4 1 split (4 orb, 1 home, kitten raven) and we still end up losing because they are able to cap 2 point and sometimes even pressure our back point.

I don’t think the problem is the teammates sucking. I think it’s just we have no idea how to function on Spirit Watch. We do fantastic on other maps.