Guild Wars 2

Excalibur.9748:

Are you kidding me? If anything needs a nerf, it’s stealth. D/P perma stealth is ridiculous. Trust me , if a nerf happens it will be on D/P set – no longer possible to perma stealth. Mobility and burst is fine. If anything, mobility will be buffed for sword as promised.

I rarely joke. Stealth nerfs hit the class too hard cross build. D/P was not mentioned and if I did it would be for Shadow Shot possibly being too good of a gap closer. Once again as i said they say a lot in SoTGs that just don’t happen. How long ago was that? Think about it.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

First of all, we can’t kill anyone with stealth, evasion, dodges, mobility, etc. The name of the game is kill your opponent, we don’t get points for being tricky.

So with that in mind, if you think that something has to be balanced that burst and stealth should not be working synergically, then the only nerf that would make sense is to nerf stealth, evade, and mobility at the cost of increasing damage output.

Reducing damage and keeping survivability tools will not do us any good since we cannot kill anything with that. Sure we’ll be hard to kill but that is simply unproductive. This is a deal breaker and a major No-No. No more damage nerf.

So, let’s get rid of stealth, evade, and mobility but I want to be able to insta-kill even a fully buffed bunker build.

That’s a trade off I am willing to take.

Well honestly a bunker could say the same but have no real dps. That being said I don’t think a damage nerf is good or plausible. Nerfing stealth in general just like they did last time hits too many builds at once. From pseudo bunker to conditions it is simply too much to ask for and unreasonable to suggest.

Deathspike.1870:

I actually wouldn’t mind losing the consistent stealth D/P gives. It feels cheap and too strong with too much access, but each other weapon set (e.g. D/D and S/D) feels appropriate. It has good access to stealth, but can be screwed up or prevented with skill. There should be an appropriate counter to D/P stealth as well.

Off topic but the main issue with DP is not the stealth. Technically speaking I could and admittedly have done the same sort of trolling with P/D and DD. that being said the main issue with DP is the blind. The projectile and the field are a little to much. If you weren’t blinded so often the build gets to be much easier to handle allowing for strong CC during the gaps.

On a side note I find it funny I am the only here not mentioning anything about stealth being OP.

SoLeciTO.3490:

However, mesmer burst isn’t very high at all.

…

Am I playing the same game as you?

All professions are good in something (or several like mesmer), please don’t start another QQ just because thieves are good roamers.

You are, but you practice selective reading and skipped the preceding sentence. In terms of PvE it isn’t as that what the point pertained to (read the discussion). The only thing comparable to BS thief is terms of DPS among mes builds is Phant with 3 swordsmen up. You should know these things if you intend to respond.

Ashanor.5319:

However, mesmer burst isn’t very high at all.

What the ..? lol

Same response as the guy above.

Excalibur.9748:

only thing op about thief is stealth (mainly the D/P set). the burst and mobility are fine.

ANET said they’re buffing our mobility in a future patch anyways.

I have no issues with thief burst and I stated that. However, I did ask if one class should have both that much stealth and that much mobility at the same time. Like I said this isn’t a kitten thread nor is it a nerf all thread. I personally think nerfing stealth is a no no. Too many builds rely on it atm and just like the last time they did it the results were undesirable. Evasion makes sense but I do not see a need for increased mobility.

TBF Anet has said many things in the past. Like DD ele needs more sustained, aoe should be toned down further, P/D thief should get an extra condition etc. They say things in SoTGs but often that doesn’t mean it is going to happen.

2 is literally useless. 3 is great but there is almost no need to use it because in most cases it is just smarter to stealth.

The change to body shot cant happen because of pistol 4. Maybe more vul and less initiative. Shadow Shot having a condition attached was tossed around a while back or something. I know P/D was promised a cover condition but who knows when. I would love to see a buff come through here.

swinsk.6410:

Thieves have best mobility, which is stealth.
Thieves do not have best burst anymore.

Thieves are best roamers in wvw, but they are not nearly as good in tpvp/spvp.

Thieves are balanced. If anything they need some love to compete with warrior and Mesmer burst which are by far superior to that of a thief.

I wont argue about tpvp/spvp. I thought my post clearly said (WvW) where needed?

Stealth is not mobility. Movement skills are mobility. RtL, HS, Rush, swoop, infiltrators’ arrow etc.

While I agree thief needs help in PvE in terms of burst vs a warrior. However, mesmer burst isn’t very high at all.

BP is a good warrior and makes a lot of intelligent post. That being said I respectfully disagree.

Bacon Please.8407:

1: Anyone who thinks Stealth is OP is a fool. You can still hit a thief and as most thieves are set up, it is probably going to do significant damage

However vs a smart or experienced thief this is not the case. Honestly when I thief I lock off melee target assist walk through you when I stealth and dodge appropriately. Vs a strong Shadow arts build stealth will let you heal up and vs anyone. Using movement as their advantage the thief wont get hit. I won’t say stealth is OP but it does have its’ moments.

Bacon Please.8407:

2: Thieves are really good at killing players new to pvp and wvw who have no idea about stun breakers and dodging. Anyone with a decent level of experience can see what a thief is doing and can either run/counter.

Sorry but this is incorrect. A perfectly played thief no one and I mean no one can run from forever. Even Sw/GS (I run this in wvw also with bull rush for added mobility) can run for a while but it wouldn’t last long if the thief brought the mobility an experienced thief has. There is no feasible means of escape besides water.

Bacon Please.8407:

3: Some builds you just can’t kill 1v1. Same goes for my warrior. I can run in very quickly . Sword/Shield +Gs and run out popping stunbreakers, endure pain and shield stance and get away with barely a dent in my 32k Health

Agree, but very few can go near GC and do that. 32k hp would make you a bunker and to my knowledge that what bunkers do. They don’t Die in 1v1 and they don’t kill. With the exception of BM ranger and Phant mes. The only classes that could possibly go full or near full glass and not get killed are shatter mesmer and D/P thief (DD to a much lesser extent).

4: A thief that drops you fast, drops even faster. What do most GC thieves have for health? 11k Health? With maybe 2100 armor. Can’t get more glassy.

However if you read these forums for more balanced burst builds the HP you run with is 15k min. If you add in blinds and other tricks given how slippery the class is very few classes including warrior can burst a thief all by themselves. A good thief also keeps his escapes and will use them appropriately making bursting them nigh impossible. S/D burst ele can do it if the get in range so can some engi builds but outside of that not much else.

Bacon Please.8407:

5: Playing a thief really changes your outlook on how they operate. When everyone says Play one to Learn one, They really mean it. When I got to 80 on my thief and spent a hundred or so hours in WvW with it, I was able to get back to my warrior and I could SEE WITH MY OWN EYES exactly what the thief was going to do before they could. It was so predictable “Okay he is using D/D and just used Cloak and dagger, probably going for a backstab in 3,2,1… EVADE” What do you know, He missed and i stun locked him with a hammer.

I played thief first so my outlook hasn’t changed at all. When I ran P/D it was called OP a few months later. I was DP 5 months ago before anyone even gave a kitten. S/D 6 months ago before the nerfs and the claims of how OP shadow return is. I have played most builds and the only class I have more hours on is ele. I love thief however, some of what is OP is simply OP. Its not about experience or playing the class. Many of us have 3, 4, 5, 6, 80s and we get it but at the same time its not like we are blind to what is really strong and what isn’t.

BTW not being rude but if you did that I would simply use shadowstep to break the cc hit a target and come back and gib you. If you were by yourself I might eat the cc if I managed to get caught which is unlikely. Earthshaker has a huge telegraph and slow animation. Hammer in general relies on chaos to catch people as an aware target will simply move or dodge. This is a common complaint among hammer warriors as it is. A thief as educed about your build as he is about your simply would not get hit.

Thief is not the strongest class out there in general. Even in Spvp it is somewhat useless. However, when we talk about WvW the story much change. “A Warriors Perspective on Thief” would be a more appropriate title, but you probably got over max character thing.

Azraeel.1238:

How to counter them? Teleport/shadowstep/blink/riflejump to where they shadow returned and directly throw in massive AOE. Oh right, you might not have any of these skills, but who cares, we need a counter regardless what class and build you are, right? -_-. Have you even been listening to what people were saying for the past tons of posts in your whining threads? To Counter thieves you need a build that has burst damage, little CC, and mobile. If they decide to run away, even if you were fighting a Necro, without having mobility, you won’t catch them.

Could you name one class/build that has the mobility CC and burst to catch a thief, CC them, and burst them before they enter stealth or stun break?

randomfightfan.4091:

TheGuy.3568:

I am not saying thieves should be easy to catch, but I feel that it doesn’t make sense to give a class so much capability to escape and gap closers without some sort of way to balance it vs other classes incapability to do the same.

To clarify no I do not think mobility or stealth should be nerfed. This class has seen enough nerfs. That being said I think there is a balance issue with this.

You’re talking in circles. You don’t think they should be nerfed but they are too strong together? Doesn’t make sense. Btw, thief needs the mobility b/c they can still get hit while stealth. You don’t need a target to kill someone. We do have good burst, mobility, and stealth, what we don’t have is aoe, cc, any source of damage mitigation (aside from evades), or a good class mechanic (steal can either be pretty good or near useless vs something like virtues or shatters). If there were only 3 mechanics to this game I’d say having all 3 is op but since there is more than 3, it’s completely fine that a slippery burst class is slippery and bursty. If they were given aoe attacks on all dagger attacks, sbow projectile speeds and cast times increased/quickened 300%, and given stability and invulnerability, then thief would be disgusting.

Ok you again. One response thats it. I got 0 time to argue with you because you’ll never agree with me.

Never said there needs to be a nerf just an explanation.

The fact is if the target can’t see you it makes it nigh impossible to hit you. Ranged players simply can’t and melee players are short range so it just maneuvering around them. That makes stealth all by itself a good defensive mechanic (WvW). Very few good thieves would need a movement ability on top of that in a regular fight.

The other thing is (as I stated before) access to stealth is consistent. Unlike other things you mention which are a much larger cool downs.

As far as Aoe CC Invul and stability. AoE I have stated before is weak (well get back to this). CC is there with S/X and S/P its just not a great set S/P that is. Invul is also there in S/P. Any boon you mention doesn’t matter as we re capable of achieving the best boon ripper build in the game and it is spamable. Evades are literally the second best damage mitigation in the game.

Steal vs other class mechanics is wanting in flashiness but good in what it does. It is a gap closer and a strong one. In PvE it isn’t much but in WvW its part of my question because it adds to chase and escape.

DanH.5879:

joining the OP’s fail thread, sustaining his cause for a new thief nerf
HS jumpin 50 units and 50% damage reduction
or/and
BS reduced by 75%
also
shadowstep CD increased to 99 seconds and teleporting range reduced to 100 units

Like I said before I didn’t ask for a nerf because I wanted an explanation. I said it seems unbalanced not that it is. Even if I did suggest a nerf in mobility it would be ot infiltrators strike bringing it down to 600 since no other range set gets anything like that and bring shadowstep’s range to 900 and reduce the CD by 5 seconds. Even so who would know if that change would be balanced. For all I know it would break the class. Either way something seems off about having so much of both.

Your theatrics are recognized, but unnecessary. I have no issue with thief DPS or burst.

randomfightfan.4091:

what we don’t have is aoe,

I seem to remember this thread and this video made by you claiming the opposite. Stick to your guns if you are going to argue ad nauseum.

Call it QQ but I keep wondering about it and have now for months. Why does the class with the possibility to have consistent access stealth, and burst have the highest mobility in the game?

To me this seems inherently bad design. If a class has a strong escape mechanism through one route who should they have it through the other also. Because one doesn’t break the other doesn’t that cause an imbalance?

And before the “this is QQ”, “you probably got beat by thief” etc. That hasn’t happened in months. I am not bitter or angry or kitten over thieves. I personally love my thief but at the same time I find it hard to WvW due to this.

I am not saying thieves should be easy to catch, but I feel that it doesn’t make sense to give a class so much capability to escape and gap closers without some sort of way to balance it vs other classes incapability to do the same.

To clarify no I do not think mobility or stealth should be nerfed. This class has seen enough nerfs. That being said I think there is a balance issue with this.

The honest truth is vs a good thief there is no way you can win. I do not mean every fight. I mean that on paper and in practice with perfect play a thief always wins. That being said there are things you can do to stop some of what they do. 1v1 your not going to out run the thief. However be aware of where you are in relation to water. If you can get to it then get to it. Thief water combat is weak and ele while low DPS is strong in the CC side. Once you get there if you do the right things for a glass cannon thief this is simply a fight they can not win.

In the wild far away from water its burst and hope hes dumb enough not the reset the fight. The higher the tier the less likely this is. However vs most thieves you’ll do just fine scepter dagger bursting. Remember channels follow you into stealth so use the ones you have. CC is good but most thieves carry enough stun breaks and ports to make ele CC a joke. Conditions will work vs many glass specs until they decide to drop shadow step.

The best advice I got is CC on the run and make a run fr it yourself. Never stand still and try to say aware of the thief’s location. Get some help.

Not to give an impossible to beat impression. Some classes can wreck a thief if things go just right. Mesmer has a shot with focus offhand and so does engineer with a tool kit and nades. However thieves are one of the best 1 v 1 classes and likely that wont be changing much.

Depends. Many warrior swear by melandru for condition management. A variety of build work in WvW` you just have to consider what your doing. If your with the zerg you could run PTV hammer and be of great use. Zerker or condition LB hs its place to as well as full zerker rifle.

If your roaming the story changes.

The real information we need is what you plan to do? What weapons do you favor? And what is your current build?

From what I can see my Mesmer will not hit as hard as my warrior running similar builds. That being said in terms of what it can do solo and what it adds to the team it feels like it is in a very good spot.

Grounder.7381:

the question by the Op is..
How to counter get out of jail free button?
the answer..?
no one answered it.. or.. there actually no counter whatsoever..

Bingo. The truth is properly played thief is not counter-able 1v1 and even in most 1vx situations it would difficult. That being said I wouldn’t expect many if any changes as thief is a fragile class to balance.

Actually this was brought up months ago elsewhere. If I remember correctly reflect doesn’t just reflect the projectile but its properties and effects also. That is if the projectile causes poison so will the reflected one, if it causes immobilize so will the reflected one, etc. If I am not incorrect this is working as intended when it produces the clone if the intended target.

going to be honest some content is easier with certain classes and builds. That being said I don’t kick anyone who isn’t akitten for a really long time or just being disruptive and mean. I enter every dungeon fully prepared to solo what I have to outside of mechanics that require more than 1 person. CoF1 speed runs are accompanied by CoF runs with groups that don’t care about the class you run. Why complain about it if you are free to do what they do or not? It isn’t like you are not allowed to run the path however you like.

What happens if i go for the shatter burst and have 6 clones out?

Callahan.3180:

May I have a link to this vid?

Also, are you serrious? I play thief and 100b is so strong that I think warriors should get a weakness nurf. You guys are in denial.

Your link and if you are having real issues with warrior on anything other than PP as a thief you need to step your game up.

The described changes sound promising but I am not sure how they will play out in WvW if at all.

Do not hate me for trolling or anything. I am going to be honest. If you are going to solo roam your going to need to do it on thief, warrior, mesmer, ranger or ele. Forward movements and leaps are the key. Swiftness is nice but its not everything. Mind you even if you run one of these classes highly mobile a good thief as long as they run D/x or shortbow will be able to catch up to you. That being said pure melee ranger and warrior are second tier speedsters with the right set up. DD Ele can run for a while but will eventually get caught. Same with mesmer.

IMHO the key things to remember when solo roaming is where your doing it and enemy movement. On my warrior earlier today as I was soloing a camp and used my camera reverse hot key and caught zerg in my rear view. I left all my CDs off cool down that I would use to run. A guardian did Judge then try to burst me but he got not a hit in. I know your wondering how this plays into engineer. One of the keys to running beside being fast is block and invul states. Engineer technically has access to what you need to make a good run with toolkit, elixir s, and elixir gun. I am not saying this will work always, but a lot of running is just creating periods of time where the enemy is not hitting you. Your not necessarily outrunning them but at the same time your avoiding so much of their snares and DPS its gets to be a chore to catch you. While you can not do this indefinitely you can create situations where you can get to a base or other players from your side. It might require a specific build but proper roaming requires that of every class (save thief).

Another thing to remember is knowing what class is chains you and how they are n water. I really can’t tell you the number of times i lured players into water on mesmer and speed away or the number of times I did so on warrior and beat them in 1 v x situations. With the exception of EB knowing your distance to water can be key in WvW roaming. Because, classes are limited in what skills they can use in water it is often easy to reset a fight or create distance just knowing how water relates to their skills.

Besides that as others have said Cc plays a big part. Chill, cripple, and immobilize will all extend a run.

Not here trying to say its fare or anything just sharing my experience in WvW roaming. Hope it helps and that you find a fun/effective roaming build.

TL;DR

I know its a bit of a wall. Engineer is not the best roamer in terms of speed. However, with some specific skills/terrain you can invul/block and CC your way into the safe arms of your team. Just don’t get pinned down and you could pull this off.

Honestly what difference would it make? Instant pull or goat you into dodging then use it when you can’t counter?

I do not know when this became 100B vs sword thief damage. Fact is spamable skills are always a problem. When You Larcenous Strike someone with weak access to boons and you keep all that mobility plus stealth for many classes it is a no win situation. My suggestion isn’t so much that thief be nerfed but a solution be found.

ATM 100B isn’t fit to be brought up in real debate. GS is very clunky and it is very hard to land 100B.

I think some misconceptions have been given that you can LS all day long. Frankly you can’t. However, it can give a sword thief who already has an on demand stun breaker, stun, and decent sustained dps (land sword chain 3 to understand) a greater advantage.

Technically you can land the whole thing if you BC→Full flurry→ Swap into 100B

If we are being serous here. World completion is going to be pain due to needing WvW POIs, views, etc. If your server isn’t dominating or get switched often in EB its going to take you a while. Track probably gave you the best advice because is the easiest and most direct path to getting what you want. Farm CoF 1 with 2 tossed in for a month or two. If you go on a serious no bs farm you might have the cash to buy it off broker.

That being said do your world completion. I made the mistake of not getting it done months ago. Took me nearly 2 months in T1 WvW to get the completion. Honest truth is get the points done while you can, but your CoF farm is going to be your cash cow.

Moa Morph is a kittenty skill and is rarely carried. That being said its OP as kitten if you get stunned, crippled, or immobilized. If not LoS and dodge as much as you can til it wears off. The when it does go back and punish the mesmer who you used it. That being said they should let the run be the run it was before. Any skill that locks you out of your skill bar for that long should be there to cause you to run and not your opponent to win.

This isn’t an issue. I mean if you really want to get technical about it. You just steal from the mesmer. If your efforts fail and you need to drop refuge pop the stolen “save yourself”/Lyssa buff and get the stability. You can’t be pulled or pushed.

Head Shoulder Gloves Shoes Leggings PVT

Back Cavalier

All the rest zerker

Eastcorn.5901:

I’m not sure on all traits yet, but for sure I’m getting leg specialist and mobile strikes.

I want to go for high mobility in at least one weapon set. Probably not greatsword though, because while I enjoy the mobility, 100blades is just too important, and I hate that skill.

Main-hand sword is definitely one of the sets, with warhorn. Even though it doesn’t scale as well with power as the axe, it seems like it’s still a strong weapon for power builds. For the second set, I would probably go hammer or axe+shield. I think for roaming it would be better to go for higher mobile damage (axe) or more CC (hammer).

If I go zerker in zergs, I would definitely go for a sniper build. Retraiting is pretty inexpensive.

If you are really trying to be super mobile you’ll have to use the GS. Sword will take care of a good chunk of that mobility but GS is needed also to actually be mobile. Even then you would have to add in bull charge to be the most mobile. With sword alone mesmer, ele, ranger, thief, Gs/Sw guardian, and other warriors stand a chance of catching you in mobile sets.

That being said you really don’t have to be that mobile. as long as you can get to a nearby camp, tower, etc. your’e good to go.

YourOwnFear.2743:

Personally I think they should be releasing bug patches weekly.

I got to second this. If that had been the case from day one we would be done with the bugs by now most likely.

Title says it all. With quickness nerf shouldn’t this be brought back up?

Now one of the builds I play often is your typical PD thief. The thing I have been wondering is how well DD plays in dungeons? I have used it in the past to farm mobs in open world but I haven’t touched it out side of that.

The problem is kind of simple. The complaint has been the same in many MMOs over time. Stealth is inherently OP. That being said if you ad in the possible maneuverability, burst, and the fact it can be used in combat it makes a class that most every other MMO said cant exist. Combat stealth has been a big no no for a long time. The problem with thief is that it has so much access to combat stealth that only a few builds that can beat it in the game. When you apply the fact that thieves have so much maneuverability and it doesn’t cancel out stealth plus a stun break that acts as a double movement skill. It becomes a class that can be truly oppressive. No class can actually keep up or lock down a well played thief and that is the truth et ceteris unum. Why there is no direct counter to stealth I do nto know. Even game with very little stealth have it. However this is probably due to bad design and the thief for the most part is too reliant on stealth.

That being said this applies to PvP only and i still believe thief is severely underpowered in PvE.

Arganthium.5638:

TheGuy.3568:

For the record I would rather be interpreted as angry than proven wrong. Thus I am fine with the result since I rather be right.

I personally think we are done here wouldn’t you agree?

Arrogant much? Why should you be afraid of showing yourself to be wrong? …truncated…If you’re wrong, then you should take joy in the opportunity to learn something new, and be afraid of coming across as being angry in fear of the idea that it will repel people from wanting to teach you anything new, or cooperate with you in the future.

Anyhow, @ the people who are complaining about how RFF gets downed 3 times: why should it matter if you get downed three times ….truncated… every time he goes down RFF guarantees that he’ll be able to get back up again.

And another one pops up. If I were wrong I would simply be wrong. I would defer to the person who was right and apologize for causing argument. Like I do in real life.
RFF posted the vid not me. Personal attacks are childish and stupid. If you have something you need to say beside “you sound arrogant” then I will listen. As of this moment your’e just another person whining about the tone of my speech. I think its about time you all get over it. Argue the facts or give it a rest. This incessant whining doesn’t change the facts and that’s all I truly care about. There is nothing for me to learn here. The play was sloppy the method bad, I learn on these forums all the time. It just so happens the video is full of things you should not do. How is that my fault?

Your post makes no sense what so ever. You offer advice that has nothing to do with what has been said here (did you even read the previous post). It is just you spewing some pseudo life philosophy. Take your own advice what I said earlier is literally one of the best ways to handle those mobs. You should have learned from me and other posters who described the right method. However, your own arrogance has blinded you. You hypocrite.

Simply put it can be done without getting downed with very little risk. A smart player would employ the method with the least risk that does the most amount of AoE dps if the goal is to simply kill the mobs quickly and highlight aoe.

randomfightfan.4091:

@guy, please calm down friend. We mean you no ill will. The way you are posting right now only proves that you are angry atm.

When you have a lot of text and you want to ease your reader of the burden of reading it all you might use a tool to emphasize what is most important in the text. I personally am fully aware I tend to wall text. I bold the important parts so other readers don’t have to read the whole thing, Your response to my kindness is this.

You need to understand that if you’re trying to just bold the important parts, then don’t bold 95% if your post. It’s counter productive and only makes people dismiss your posts due to their angry nature.

An example

I merely pointed out that there is a better and easier way to do it(as others have also).

vs.

I merely pointed out that there is a better and easier way to do it(as others have also).

One is you making a point, the other is you making yourself to look like a jerk.

First off There were 2,237 individual characters in my last post. Of those 996 were bolded approximately 44.5%. You read my post so it seems you didn’t dismiss it at all so what was your point again?

If you have an issue with bold face then I do not know how to help you. I use it as specified. Also I am reporting your post for being off topic as if has nothing to do with the your own OP and serves as a personal attack on me for using bold font. I never thought I would see the day someone got upset not by the content of my speech but the font. It’s rather funny. The fact you derailed your own thread is also rather funny imho.

“If you’re wrong, then you should take joy in the opportunity to learn something new,” perhaps you should take the advice of one of your supporters and stop being a troll.

Let me tell you again. Your play was sloppy and there are better ways to handle those mobs. If you are going to highlight thief’s AoE capability then do so properly.

Right now to me due to content of your post you seem to someone who trouble reading, learning, and accepting fault. I won’t call you stupid or dumb but I fear that they might be accurate descriptions for you. Instead of worrying about bold and my emotional state (once again I am very calm atm) how about you up your game play and stop being a true troll who derails his own thread.

I really do think we are done here. Would you not agree? Or would you rather keep trolling your own thread?

Edit:
I said my bit. My first post is right. Your game play is bad. I have yet to be disproved. End of story. Good day and good luck. I won’t feed the trolls any longer.

BobbyT.7192:

Mr. TheGuy, my trolling attitude towards you is in responds to the feeling that any conversation with you is like walking into a brick walk. You easily dismiss any argument as wrong, yet only provide a simple little to support your claims other then saying “doing it this way is better”.

That brick wall you run into is called a “fact”. Your opinions vs my fact your opinions will repeatedly fail. I do not dismiss all arguments just the ones that are wrong. You do not have to agree with me on everything I say but is you exaggerate or boldly lie I will call you out on it.

BobbyT.7192:

Now, i have little to support my own claims, but what Mr Randomfanfight has shown us is a video him aoe’ing that group solo. It showcases the aoe potential of the class, while it not perfect, he does succeed. Which is more than what people have shown, which at this point of time is 0.

I merely pointed out that there is a better and easier way to do it(as others have also).
Reread what I wrote originally and tell me where there is room to disagree,“I have one comment about this video. If you play a condition damage thief you can literally drop refuge, caltrops, and poison and watch the mobs melt from stealth without ever going down. I have done that part of the Arah chain on a number of classes and that the easier method.” I also said," If you truly want to show thief AoE S/P, S/D, DD Blossom, SB, and caltrops need be featured equally." Where can you disagree?

BobbyT.7192:

No while your conversation may not convey emotions, IMHO the way i’m reading it, does tell me your angry. So I am sorry you disagree, but that’s the way i’m reading it and i’m know i’m not the only one.

The reason you have issue with the way I “speak” is because I am usually right. You infer anger because I talk down to you (I explained this in an earlier post). I know it may be frustrating for you. the reasons I never said anything about your emotional state are that I don’t care, it wont make your post any more valid or invalid, and I couldn’t possibly know without being trained in psychology etc. I will tell you now your assumptions are off. You should listen to the adage, “To assume makes and kitten out of you and me.”

BobbyT.7192:

If you want to make it easier for people to read, typing less would be a start, your posts are too long winded to begin with.

When you have a lot of text and you want to ease your reader of the burden of reading it all you might use a tool to emphasize what is most important in the text. I personally am fully aware I tend to wall text. I bold the important parts so other readers don’t have to read the whole thing, Your response to my kindness is this.

BobbyT.7192:

you don’t seem to be angry enough, need more bolded words

At the end of the day you admitted to being a troll. And I am right about everything I said here.

What I take away from this post is because you lack the capability to argue with me on the facts you resort to trolling. Now if you look at other post what I said in my first post has been echoed over and over again. For the record I would rather be interpreted as angry than proven wrong. Thus I am fine with the result since I rather be right.

I personally think we are done here wouldn’t you agree?

Callahan.3180:

Grounder.7381:

just need a trait that grants “defiant and unshakable”.. 10 stacks should suffice =)

I truly don’t know why there’s no counter blind for a warrior. He’s supposed to be a jack of all traits type character. This includes being a counter to all characters in one way. Sight beyond sight is probably a great idea.

Jack of all trades master of none is ele actually. Warrior is the plain class. No frills or flash.

Zelulose.8695:

Lol yes warriors do suck. They don’t seem to suck in the begining but theb you realize all classes have a build that is potentially op. Warrior does not have that.

Honestly I was thinking about this yesterday. There is currently no FOTM for this class and there hasn’t been one in months.

Look LS needed the change. However, vs let use warrior for example because of weak access to boons being able to spam this makes it too oppressive. At the same time ( please read carefully) it is absolutely needed. Because, of builds like HGH,bunker ele and guardian where you need to spam the boons off. IMHO there should be ways to stop a boon from being ripped for classes who have limited access to boons. I do not think thief needs a nerf here. Other places yes here no.

BobbyT.7192:

you don’t seem to be angry enough, need more bolded words

I Thought I explained to you how bold works but in case you missed it I will ink it again. Please don’t troll me as its is a little disgusting. How bold is used in written text. Please in the future remember this before applying your own rules to common language tools. Using bold for is usually considered a courtesy when dealing with this much text.

randomfightfan.4091:

I love balls of joy!

Now that’s got to be some sort of innuendo.

Lastly @ guy, when you lose your cool, it will always take away any validity of your argument. Not to mention I killed 15+ risen at once with a class that’s supposed to have kitten aoe. If the class really didn’t have any good aoe then, no matter how well/terrible it was played, they shouldn’t have been able to kill that many enemies at once. Please simmer down on the hate, it’s not good for anybody, especially not for yourself. It is unhealthy that you are getting so mad at me saying “I don’t use condition thief, notice the 55s. It was just to show how unkillable an aoe thief can be”. I feel very sorry for you. I wish that you find joy in the things you do in life.

First off you need to learn about what causes a fallacy in a logical argument. I will link you more information as getting angry doesn’t cause a logic failure. Many times in an argument the hope is to get your opponent angry and have them lose focus of their points. Many people in your generation have equated this to, “If the other person gets angry no matter what they say they are wrong.” This is a fallacy.

For example Malcolm X would often give speeches from anger. In fiction you can look to the movies, “A Few Good Men”, “Network”, “Mr. Smith goes To Washington”, etc. Getting angry doesn’t make a point any less valid. See a long time ago when I as in high school I was on the debate team. Being passionate or angry wont lesson your points as long as you use logic in your argument. As long as you point out how illogical your opponents argument is there is very little they can do except point out that anger has clouded your logic. You have failed to do that. Because, at the end of the day the advice I gave you was right and you admitted it yourself.

Also much of what you infer as anger is just part of the way I speak and has no emotional context. I talk down to people and that sometimes offends. However, I always talk down to those I do not see as an equal (in terms of this argument). What you infer as my anger is only in your mind. So, I would suggest you stop those assumptions. I have stated before that I am not angry in the slightest bit, and tried to offer you parity by showing you how I speak when truly angry. It seems you didn’t understand, and that is lamentable.

I hope that in the future if you choose to argue with someone who is clearly right, that you do what a practical adult would do. You take the criticism and learn from it. Remember my first post only pointed out a better way to do this. If you were smart you would have take the advice and moved on but alas that selfish pride you have is keeping you from doing that.

I hope that in the future if you choose to do something like this again that you take more time to plan out what you intend to show. If you truly want to show thief AoE S/P, S/D, DD Blossom, SB, and caltrops need be featured equally. Another suggestion is that you choose better content that isn’t so demanding. A number of event mentioned before including Shelt/Pent, Plinx, The Melandru Chain, etc could have done a better job of showing thief aoe without downed stated and frantic play.

While I do wish you the best in whatever you do in life as long as it doesn’t seek to hurt others (as I would do for any human being). I would honestly suggest that if you open yourself up for criticism that instead of feeling the need to constantly defend, that you learn from the critique and improve.

peter.9024:

I think I’ve posted this a while ago, at least some of my experience in duels:

peter.9024:

So I’ve done a lot of duels recently and I can try to summarize some of the experience from my side:

My play style: GS + Axe/ shield, all berserker except 3 knight pieces in armor (hoelbrak), 20/0/20/0/30. Utils are healing surge, balanced stance, signet of stamina, endure pain, signet of rage. I don’t win with bulls rush frenzy, but rather steady axe / GS pressure and eviscerate. Hoelbrak, food and dogged mitigate most of the movement impairment now and last stand / balanced stance allows me to mitigate quite a bit of the CC.

Could you do us a favor and plug in your build here You do not have to of course since many like to keep the full ins and outs of their builds private. As a lyssa warrior I have yet to run into a warrior build that could pressure me. Mostly because I use a sword and bull charge for movement allowing me to reset or escape pressure situations. Vs most other warriors they are more glass and my stats too balanced to burst me down without getting killed themselves. Either way haven’t run into the build you have described.

Your analysis of the common builds seems right to me.

Forzani.2584:

As I asked earlier. With both players having the same skill level, what class is a good matchup for warriors in a 1v1 ?

I agree with someone elses description of brutally bad in 1v1

Sam exact skill level and class knowledge. Hmm. If both players are good he warrior is slated to lose heads up. If both are bad anybody could win.

pot.6805:

FOR GRAPE JUSTICE – Turn into a grape and roll into enemies knocking them over sending them into fits of uncontrollable laughter.

I’m not gonna lie this made me smile.

OP 3 and 4 wouldn’t even be OP.

Lets point out a few things here. First off war is bad at 1 v x so that’s our situation. WvW is always open to getting jumped by many players. blind isn’t OP but it can be if a class gets enough of it. If you are going to go full melee and roam I would have to suggest Sw/Sh and GS.

As far as what the Op asked (blinded at the worst time). It happens often enough to make it a pain.

Miffinator.3046:

The fan boys will say it’s area denial. Not really. Truth be told I’m thinking of giving up on this class and going thief or guardian.

I am not a true engineer yet. My current engineer is low level but I have actually had a quite a bit of time with the class. That being said unless you really enjoy guardian or thief game play don’t do this. You would just add to the drones of people who did this is sheer frustration. In my eyes engineer is the most advance class in the game. The skills required to run the most complex builds are truly impressive. So many people threaten this cross class that after looking around here for advice I am a bit disheartened. After Anet takes a proper look at engineer balance I think things will be goo enough that you’ll appreciate you leveled the class.

Just my 2 cents.

randomfightfan.4091:

TheGuy.3568:

If the point of your vid was to show how it should not be done then I think I got the point completely. We can go back and forth like this it seems your a fan of fighting. You can’t even counter what I say because you know I am right, and that’s the best type of comedy there is to me. Go on dazzle me with your wit.

I already let you know exactly what the point of my vid was, not my fault you can’t accept that you’re getting super mad about nothing. If you want to pick it apart so much and try say how good you are then go ahead and make your own videos. Sad thing is you’d probably fail even if you tried to cheese your way through a fight like that with the whole 30 points into SA to perma invis through that fight, using only caltrops, chocking gas, and maybe whatever asura abilities you want. Thing is you haven’t done that to prove how effective slowly bleeding out your targets. Bet you’d mess up one of the invis’ before killing anything, revealing yourself just long enough to get jumped by the mobs and dropped. Want to complain about my play? Go ahead. Before you keep making yourself sound like a fool try to do something that proves you’re actually good instead of just sounding like an internet troll whose only skill is complaining.

Now please try coming up with some original comeback instead of just repeating what I said. About everything you’ve said so far, I am not impressed, just amused.

Let me simplify this for you since you think you argument is strong(you kids and your “You got mad so I win” logic failure).

You put up a crappy video of crappy game play. You brag about it. I tell you sed crappy video is full of crappy game play. You accuse me of being mad and make a list of why you played like kitten. I respond you still played like kitten. Wall of text telling me I couldn’t do better and to prove.

Here the part where I remind you that you put up this video of your own free will. And that no one asked for it. You opened yourself for critique. It has been given.

Honestly haven’t you realized your the one trying to impress me? Look at what you have said so far backing up your play. Your trying to convince me what you did was good. You sad little thing haven’t you realized that yet? I have nothing to defend but you do. Not my video son its yours. If you didn’t want criticism why upload your video hmm?

randomfightfan.4091:

^
So mad, so funny. Completely missed the point of the vid but thanks for making my day. Don’t usually get this kind of comedy.

If the point of your vid was to show how it should not be done then I think I got the point completely. We can go back and forth like this it seems your a fan of fighting. You can’t even counter what I say because you know I am right, and that’s the best type of comedy there is to me. Go on dazzle me with your wit.

randomfightfan.4091:

Lol guy, just lol.

Why you so mad?

Not mad at all. Look take the advice or leave it your play was sloppy end of story. If you want to show how to do it then do it properly other wise your wasting other peoples time. You put something up for critique and I critiqued. Your play was kitten excuse my french for PvE. That sums it up.

Edit:
One note “1. If I wanted to perma invis and just condition down that mob, I could. Fact is that’s boring.” Excuse my language from now. Only an kitten would say this. The most efficient way to deal with the pack requires very little effort just simple and smart play. You mean to tell me to prove a point about how good thief aoe is you use the most inefficient method that see you get downed 3 times while any smart player could have done more aoe damage and not even have gone down one with out splitting the pack. By all means show your crappy video but don’t pass it off as good or right or anything that represent thief’s potential.

Challenge accepted???

Challenge horribly failed.

(btw that’s anger)

Sil.4560:

He’s saying the swiftness should be a 100% chance on critical. You know, like the guardian minor trait that gives them vigor on crit? Or the elementalist trait which does the same thing?

Renewing Stamina

Daecollo…some times he trolls. Sometimes he writes really funny kitten. However, every now and again he writes something that’s right, and here he is right.

Not full QQ just wondering it is a little too much for us. We have the second weakest access o boons in the game (thief being number one). getting boon stripped hits a a little too hard Imho especially in PvP. Thoughts?

Just asking because you know (insert random QQ here) and I would like to know. But seriously when are you going to look at our sustained both DPS and healing?

Look here’s the brutal truth. 1v1 for us is a true challenge. The vast majority of classes have an advantage on us. Guardians and thieves being the most oppressive if played right.

That being said there are builds that excel at 1v1. The funny thing about warrior is that if you are willing to kite you can win many fight you otherwise would not be able to. I find that closing and opening the gap often lead to confusion among classes that aren’t really mobile.

There are things to say away from. Heavy condition builds will rip most warrior apart and unless you spec specifically for it (might kitten yourself in the process) its best to just stay way from those fight. Most mesmers and some ele will rip you to shreds if your not careful. Melee guardians with burn, retal, and full heals are insane challenging to fight.

As far as Gs rifle goes. Roaming your bait to get eaten. You wont have the speed to out run a zerg or a shield for breathing room. GS/Rifle is better for zerg not roaming. Imho if your serious about roaming it Sw/x and GS.

randomfightfan.4091:

I don’t use condition thief, notice the 55s. It was just to show how unkillable an aoe thief can be

You literally went down three times. the only time you did decent aoe dps was when you dagger stormed. You literally do most of your DPS in the form of condition damage and spend 14 seconds down. Do I really need to pick this apart fully?

Now if you listen to what I say you might learn something. If you were condition damage speced with the same utilities you could have simply did refuge over the pack dropped caltrops switch to bow dropped poison field and used caltrops on dodge as needed. Once you came out of stealth you use the same tactics you did. It would have been much faster less sloppy and you would have never gone down.

Lets add in the fact you had commanders up the vet wasn’t there and you reset your pulls.

If your going to show AoE DPS then show it. I think there is this perception that because I might criticize thief in PvE I haven’t played it for 6 months. If you are really going to do aoe dps then do it right. What your really looking at a is DB spam add in if you an asura Radition field and Pain Inverter and you never have to switch to bow.

I am not saying aoe dps can’t be done or anything like that. What I am saying is that if your’e really going to do it there is proper way.

I will accept your arguments as most of them make sense. However, at the same time it’s a system that allows players to continually harass the same players that beat them over and over and not allow them to close bigger objectives essentially making killing player not worth it. Either way it seems the only logic in this system for the player who’s winning is to reset their points frequently as not to allow others to level off them while they cant level off others.

All that being said I agree if there weren’t this heavy dr even if it took years there would be an exploit in the system. It still doesn’t make it any less frustrating.

I have one comment about this video. If you play a condition damage thief you can literally drop refuge, caltrops, and poison and watch the mobs melt from stealth without ever going down. I have done that part of the Arah chain on a number of classes and that the easier method.

Imho its not necessarily OP. Classes like ele and guardian have strong access to boons so stripping them often becomes a necessity and it will not alwaykitten. The problem is classes with weak access to boons are punished too heavily in a fight. A class that can get swiftness every ten seconds isn’t going to be as affected by this as a class that gets it every minutes. Also because the timers to not reset to base you can literally have thieves with buffs times they were never supposed to get access to. However, considering what flanking strike used to be I think the change was necessary. They may need to nerf it in the future. That being said I do not think they will because it is important to meta.