Guild Wars 2

Spazzcromancer runs a bunker build based around heavy protection uptime, and high life force recovery. It’s a very good bunker build, and was viable predhuum buff, but is even stronger now, with the capability of easily taking points from under people with Fear.

Laserbolt.6731:

Would it be a complete waste of time trying out a bunker necro?

Talk to Spazzcromancer, he has a very effective mid-point bunker Necro.

Not to burst your bubble, but duels don’t really matter.

That and the players you were fighting were less-than-skilled.

You should record footage of you playing tournaments with that build.

I do it in practice quite often, though it is very unsafe for my Wellmancer to challenge a skilled Spirit Ranger without my Lich form ready.

If he’s guarding a close point, he has no choice but to eat my burst, even if he does manage to avoid it, he’d have to waste most of his evades, or allow me to neutralize the point. In which case, my Lich still has enough power to finish him off. Also, his Spirits would immediately be dead from my Lich+Well burst.

Defektive.7283:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Minionmasters can last longer, and do significantly more damage than a Spirit Ranger, so they are both even in that sense.

They can provide Condition removal, constant combo fields, heavy CC, and boons for their teammates. So again, both even, just in different ways.

Fight High Warlord Sikari to see what a skilled Minionmaster can do.

Ya I’m not sure about the last longer portion considering a good spirit ranger has evade frames and AoE blinds.

I’ve seen my teammate survive against 4 players at once in a tPvP for over 30 seconds. We were amazed (and jealous). Pretty sure a necromancer would have gotten trained pretty hard in that circumstance.

The issue isn’t really a 1v1, it’s can you outlast someone+ indefinitely?

It entirely depends on whom the Spirit Ranger/Minionmancer are fighting. I can easily defeat a Spirit Ranger in under 9 seconds with my Wellmancer if I decide to use Lich form.

Minionmasters can last longer, and do significantly more damage than a Spirit Ranger, so they are both even in that sense.

They can provide Condition removal, constant combo fields, heavy CC, and boons for their teammates. So again, both even, just in different ways.

Fight High Warlord Sikari to see what a skilled Minionmaster can do.

Namely because of a strong generic ignorance of what Necromancers are capable of. Minionmancers can do a Spirit Ranger’s job just as well. Most people don’t realize that a Necromancer can literally fit any role in the game as well as another class, or better.

However, the common belief is that Necromancers are only good with Conditions. Granted after the Dhuumfire/Torment patch, it’s definitely the strongest aspect.

pajamaboi.9534:

Oh okay. I just remember in the EU qualifiers Team Paradigm had Teldo and CC had Super doing that. Pish had an ele and I think NN did too. They had rangers but they went to the teamfight at mid, and I don’t think the necros were minion master. I’m wondering if it’s a skill thing. Like at most levels the builds you mentioned are the best at 1v1 but at the top it’s others?

Where can I look/who do I contact for info on the schools?

They’re simply and plainly best for 1v1, though Spirit Rangers also make great support builds as well.

Anyhow, it depends on what school. But generally, me.

Most good teams have Spirit Rangers and Minionmasters guard their close point.

Also, yes. I am the person who set up the schools for every profession. They’re doing quite well, but I’ve been inactive lately, so I left the running of them to the teachers.

Minionmasters, Phantasmal Mesmers, Spirit/Beastmaster Rangers are the gods of 1v1. There are very few builds that can compete with them. If you want to practice a bit, you can always get High Warlord Sikari to help you, he’s in my Necro school and is quite possibly the best Minionmaster in the community.

Proper communication saves lives.

You will not beat them easily in a 1v1, so do not expect to. Minionmaster Necromancers, and Spirit/BM Rangers are virtually impossible. As are Phantasmal Mesmers. In order to beat a Minionmaster Necro, or a Spirit/BM Ranger, you have to be

1) A very good Wellmancer

2) A Trap Ranger

3) A Conditionmancer focusing on AoE

4) An skilled HGH Engineer

5) A shatter Mesmer

6) S/D Thief (With a shortbow)

7) Meditation Guardian

If you are not running one of those builds, then you’ll have a very difficult time defeating them 1v1.

No, I already have enough useless PvE crap cluttering my bank and inventory. Just give gold or achievement points if you want.

They can’t even balance what they already have, and they want to add more to it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/The-Mighty-Altroll-s-Mighty-Metas/first

Potentate is my personal favorite, it’s a point assaulter. Try to avoid fighting opponents off point. If you want advice on how to use it, or want to try and create your own build with my help/testing/advice, then let me know ingame or PM me on the forums.

Godless.1857:

@Ascii.9726

I think that’s part of the problem, the sPvP forums are full of people making sure noone gets the upper hand on their chosen class – too negative/adversarial. If they thought for a few seconds that they could have a better team for themselves with necro being able to excel in some area, instead of assuming that necro has 120 trait points to spend and a double sized utility bar allowing them to do all things at all times.

With the dual necro, I was thinking something along the lines of two necros, one using your build or similar, the other setup to lay down well of blood, darkness and maybe spectral wall. So both plague through, one doing most of the damage, the other to support escape at the end.

Blaming sPvP players.

Amaaaaazing.

Oh, by the way, there is a difference between sPvP player, and tPvP player. For future reference when you’re randomly targeting/insulting wide groups of people.

Ascii.9726:

I play this build at least 6 hours everyday in T1 WvW both commanding and following, im in the highest ranked NA GvG guild fighting some of the best guilds in the game.

Maybe you shouldn’t be questioning my experiences and more informing us of yours which you still haven’t done.

We are not worthy.

Geez, Ascii, why are you getting so defensive when people criticize your builds?

Ascii.9726:

Next, 20 Points in Blood Magic isn’t for Vampiric, that’s just a minor trait you have to pick up. The points are in there for Ritual Mastery which is a must for a well build.

Ritual mastery is not a must for a Wellbuild. Not anymore.

Ascii.9726:

Lets not forget Vampiric and Vampiric Precision are 25 and 42 true damage on any direct damage including siege.

Lord have mercy, call Arenanet, that damage needs a nerf.

Ascii.9726:

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that Warhorn doesnt ‘synergize’ with Axe as it does. Warhorn is also in the build because the AoE daze is killer in WvW and Locust Swarm synergizes with plague amazingly.

You’re telling me that Warhorn synergizes minor aspects of your build, not with axe. Dagger is far superior since Locust Swarm adds to your damage significantly, and aids in stopping opponents from kiting, allowing you to deal significant damage. The Daze is fine. Using Warhorn on Axe simply means you’ll be running up close with Locust Swarm (Why the Focused Rituals then?), as in, close quarters with an Axe… Or you’d be standing back amongst your zerg, contributing nothing with Locust Swarm.

Locust Swarm is unnecessary in Plague Form unless you’re building for a bursty hybrid, speaking of which, why do you even have Plague Form on this?

Ascii.9726:

Axe is not used for damage at all, and Axe mastery would cost too much in trait points to justify. Axe is used for the AoE boon stripping, cripple and 18 seconds of retaliation that (when synergized with warhorn 5 and plague) leaves you crippling, chilling, blinding, poisoning, retaliation damage and 2 lots of Vampiric & Vampiric Precision every second to 5 targets.

So why are you using Axe? None of what you listed is overall impressive, I can do the same thing on my control builds, easier, at that. Your build is obfuscated, and corrupted by too much time in the wonderful world of WvW, where anything is viable and the points don’t matter.

Hell, Focused Rituals is absolutely awful, and literally only good for killing the bad players out of a zerg.

BadJas.5178:

Then I guess I don’t understand your criticism.
Why exactly would a defensive ability, like any of the listed, require a ‘severe subtraction’ from our offensive capabilities? All other professions have them, and their DPS potential isn’t necessarily much lower than ours.

That’s the problem, it is lower than ours. We’re the most effective condition class in the game, far superior to HGH Engineers.

Good idea for a build, however Vampirism is very gimmicky if you do not go all out on it. I’d take the 20 points from Vampirism, and put it in Soul Reaping, or Spite. Especially if you want to use Axe for your damage, then go for Axe Mastery. Or if you want more survivability, go for Soul Marks in Reaping.

Warhorn doesn’t synergize well with Axe. Infact, Warhorn only synergizes with Dagger. Sigil of Accuracy is unnecessary with Furious Demise, and a base 45% crit chance.

Hope this helps.

It works rather well, either way if you use it properly, you spike your opponent with white damage, or bleeds. Even if you don’t know what you’re doing with it. If you don’t like Geomancy, or cannot use it effectively with a shared ICD, then switch to Smoldering.

And I agree with what you’re saying, but not necessarily the ideas about how to improve it. Those ideas would make us a bit too strong. I don’t want to see Deathshroud as a way to bunker things. I see Vampirism as the way we should facetank people, and simply mitigate damage by outhealing it.

Azraeel.1238:

Bhawb.7408:

Our damage in a very specific setup, needs nerfing in PvP, pretty much everyone agrees with this.

The only problem is that they won’t nerf only in PvP…

Meanwhile, they only nerf PvP.

Dietzen.6127:

There’s no point in having on crit sigils, and on swap sigils. They will continually rule each other out. I’m not sure what your crit % will be in this build, but if it isn’t particularly high, then there’s no point in having on crit sigil. If it’s high, then your on swap sigil will never proc, due to IC. You need to have complimentary sigils, and make sure both sigils on both weapon sets will always work, when they have to.

The crit chance is somewhat low outside of Deathshroud, so the onswap sigils will work. Also, I don’t swap much in this build, and I tend to be aware of the Air Sigil’s proc. Plus, I tend to use the Smoldering SIgils offhand.

Anyhow, you’re not telling me anything I do not know. Most good players know how to juggle those types of sigils effectively.

You do realize that I explained all of that in the thread. That none of it was entirely PvP orientated, correct?

Linguistically Inept.6583:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Locust Signet
Dungeon certified, Fractal certified.

locust signet?…. LOCUST SIGNET?
why?
why not run something like well of darkness?

Because when you’re surrounded by numerous enemies, it can almost heal you fully, that’s why.

The sustain from Wells and the number of AI opponents dumb enough to stand in them is all you need, and that’s what my build is based around. Besides, you said yourself, builds do not matter. That build worked fine for me, even in fractals. It’s an easy build to understand, and use. The rest simply depends on your skill at avoiding damage.

Spoj, I’ll upload my dungeon run of CoF Story with 2 Necromancers and a Guardian for you.

Whether it’s good or not, it works well for anything PvE demands.

Sorry Tommy Knocker, but any complaints about Necromancer’s effectiveness in PvE are simply unfounded. You can beat most dungeons wagging a monkey on a stick as long as you know how to wag it properly.

The attrition aspect was supposed to come from strong vampirism capabilities, and the ability to shut down opponent’s damage/movement while slowly strangling them with conditions. The problem with that was, is during the closed beta, Necromancers were insanely strong, so they were nerfed so hard into the ground they needed a spade just to pee.

However, we were still viable predhuumfire patch, and now we’re blatantly overpowered.

Lee Merriman.9412:

Got my Necro to 80 (via crafting) and now I’m looking for builds for casual PvE/Fractals. I like the look of Marks (ground targeted AOE conditions?) that would go well with my current Khilbron’s set for condition damage, but I’ve also heard Marks do kitten-all damage.

30/0/10/30/0

• Make sure to have “Close to Death, BloodThirst, Vampiric Rituals, Ritual Mastery, and Dark Armor”

• Full Knight’s Armor, Berserker Trinkets -> Or 60% Knight’s, 40% Berserker’s is the appropriate ratio.

Dagger (Sigil of Air/Blood) Warhorn (Sigil of Leeching)

Axe (Sigil of Blood) Dagger (Sigil of Leeching)

6 Vampirism Runes

Omnomberry pie

Consume Conditions, Well of Suffering, Well of Corruption, Locust Signet, Lich form.

Dungeon certified, Fractal certified.

BadJas.5178:

A new challenge has arisen: we are no longer able to soak up all the damage from 1 attack with Death Shroud.

Obviously this leaves us a bit crippled, at least in PvE and WvW.
So what would you like to have on your Necromancer to soak up the damage from 1 or more attack? A trait, a utility skill, a weapon skill?
Note: there are plenty of topics voicing their concerns about the DS change itself.
This thread is to come up with suggestions.

Here’s my suggestion:
Consume Blows (Death Shroud #4)
You gain Retaliation and block attacks.
For each attack you block, lose 5% life force and gain Might.

• Duration: 3 seconds
• Retaliation Duration: 3 seconds
• Might Duration: 10 seconds

Life transfer can be merged with Tainted Shackles.

Please read this before suggesting defensive skills/traits. So that you can better understand the reason why Necromancers lack defensive capabilities. But don’t think that lacking superior defense makes us underpowered, we are far from it, and any addition to our defense, would have to severely subtract from our offense.

Yerffejy.6538:

So to start off, I am definitely a lurker, not so much a poster.

I started this game with ele as my main. I got sick of how squish it was, and decided to roll a necro. And then I fell in love. Since then, my necro has been my main, and all the other classes don’t seem to be as fun.

After the recent patches, I have the utmost respect for the people who have stuck with this class for as long as they have. Honestly.

Just look at the patches recently. We have been fighting bugged and crippled since the start.

It took around 7 threads, placed in different forum areas to finally get a dev response related to our downed health being significantly lower. But even before it was addressed and fixed, we fought on. Playing the class, fighting as hard as we could with it. And to the people that didn’t give up on the downed health bug, your persistence is welcomed.

And then, recently, we have been told that our main and ONLY defense, Death Shroud, was not working at full capacity. That our potential was reduced by 1/3rd. And yet, we were still here, still fighting, still going strong.

So we have been fighting and playing with a crippled class, a flawed class, and yet we persevered.

So much respect to all who have stuck with the class, who have helped the necromancer community as a whole, all the respect in the world for you all.

It is not crippled, or bugged, or unviable. Used to be super bugged. It never was unviable.

Currently Necromancer is now the strongest condition class in the game, and was severely overbuffed with the Dhuumfire patch.

Don’t listen to most of the whiners in the Necro forums. And I’d suggest you respect Elementalists and Warriors alot more. Especially, in PvP.

Alright, here’s a new variation of one of my Hybrid builds:

Lictor
30/20/0/20/0
V, VIII, XI, IV, IX, III, VIII
6 Runes of the Elementalist
Carrion Amulet <- Berserker’s Jewel
Scepter (Sigil of Air) Dagger (Sigil of Geomancy/Smoldering)
Axe/Dagger (Sigil of Air) Focus (Sigil of Geomancy/Smoldering)
Consume Conditions, Well of Suffering/Spectral Wall, Well of Corruption, Corrupt Boon/Spectral Walk, Lich/Plague Form

tPvP tested. Best used in an Assault team. Strongly aided by Thieves, namely Venom Share Thieves, and Shatter Mesmers. Weak against Meditation Guardians.

• S Tier
  + Necromancer

• A Tier
  +Ranger
  + Guardian
  =Mesmer
  - Engineer

• B Tier
  + Elementalist
  =Thief
  - Warrior

Kuzaa.4796:

I can’t figure out how to PvP as a Necromancer! I’ve been using a bleed build I found off the internet and it just doesn’t seem to work for me, people just seem to heal faster than I can bleed them or they just don’t seem to be hurt at all… It feels like i’m doing everything right but my damage is just too low. I’m sure i’m screwing up on something or the build i’m using is outdated, but I don’t have any friends who PvP as a Necromancer so I can’t ask for advice. If someone could help me out here, maybe tell me a good build or some tricks, that would be great!

Whisper me ingame sometime, I’ll invite you to the Necro school.

rager.4963:

Took a break since release, came back to see what is up. Was in the mood for a necro. Use to love them in EQ and other games.. Come to the forum to check out pet builds and stuff.

Holy kittens batman. The aura in this forum makes me want to cry. Is necromacers really that bad?

How bad are pets? I mean I see people saying they are bugged, but they got to be useful for something right? I don’t see them leaving them worthless for this long.

Necromancer is incredibly strong. Don’t listen to most of the nay-saying nancies on the forums. We were severely overbuffed on the dhuumfire patch, and are currently the strongest condition class in the game.

Diversion, Mist Form, Block, Invulnerability, Dodge, Evasion, etc.

They are, but in all the wrong ways, Achilles.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Necromancer-Survivability-Explanation-Advice/first

Batmang.5421:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

official.4658:

So basically they new they were op before this last patch and many of the top necros were telling Anet that even they wanted a nerf lol.

So what does Anet do?
BUFF THEM MORE LOL!!

Get it together anet

We were not OP before the patch, but I’ll definitely agree that we were not needing such a buff. Just bug fixes.

I think he means the patch after burning but before DS 2x damage fix. I’m getting the impression most people don’t realize how big necro got buffed yesterday o.O

Necro wasn’t buffed all that much, Deathshroud Survivability is next to worthless in high level tPvP. If they focus you, you die. Deathshroud be kitten ed.

Anyhow, I don’t agree with the last two AA patches whatsoever regardless. Necro was way overbuffed in the Dhuumfire patch.

official.4658:

So basically they new they were op before this last patch and many of the top necros were telling Anet that even they wanted a nerf lol.

So what does Anet do?
BUFF THEM MORE LOL!!

Get it together anet

We were not OP before the patch, but I’ll definitely agree that we were not needing such a buff. Just bug fixes.

Shar.3402:

2300 armor is pretty low for a bunker spec…I have more on my ele, running valkyrie/berserker and 0 points in toughness tree -.-

Does your Ele have 26,000 HP?

I have to run a hybrid to have a larger life force pool, so I can regen more DS faster, since LF is based upon a percentage, not a fixed number.

Tested a Life Force bunker in tPvP due to this, using Spectral Armor, high Vitality, and high toughness.

Facetanked 4 people for 20 seconds with Deathshroud. Died instantaneously upon exiting Deathshroud with 2,300 Armor, and 26,000 HP.

A good bunker it does not make, and in order to get all that Deathshroud survivability, I had to sacrifice all of my damage.

Good discussion, gents. Too bad Arenanet doesn’t care. I was really hoping they’d read this and take it to heart, or atleast provide decent discussion around it.

You’re going entirely based on opinion, rather than fact. Pound for pound, Ranger is the best tankable class in the game. The second runner up is S/D Elementalist. Then rifle Static Discharge Engineer. Just because you would rather have Healing spring doesn’t make it better.

Automated Response while it is very good, doesn’t mean much when you’re stuck at 25% health until someone with white damage finishes you off.

Anyhow, you’re thinking of bunkers. A tank cannot bring alot of team support, that’s not their job. Want support? Bring a Guardian.

I will give you that one Shimmerless, but it’s not super bad when you spec around Signets.

Go for an Interruption Phantasmal build, then trait for Invulnerability/Cleansing on Signets, then go full Signets, instant tank.

Though it will never be as effective as the holy triforce meta of Mesmers: Phantasmal, Shatter, Prismatic

Jportell.2197

Except for my team just facerolled you on your necro in a tourney? While on my engineer. Lawls at your post for rangers being the best tanks in the game tho good joke. And the Reduced CD on nullflied was a start but nowhere good enough in the spammy condition meta. Mesmers need something in their heal skill (LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME INCLUDING WARRIORS!) and if you are maining a “shatter” mesmer than you know going 30 points into a tree that has nothing and I mean absolutely NOTHING to do with shatters beyond those two traits is one of the dumbest choices a shatter mesmer can make. Then we have the whole reasons mesmers are brought to tourneys as of late IOL, Portal, Moa. This leaves them with an option for a condition removal or stunbreak/stealth. Since we can’t get both like quite a few other classs.

Also how many mesmers do you see in tourneys lately? I for one haven’t seen more than 1 or 2 every third game.
I’m sorry but as someone that has mained a mesmer for a long time and just recently switched because once again ANet has started slamming us into the ground. I know that everything you said is false. Or you bring tons of condi removal for yourself. And nothing else for your team.

A) That was a pug, and I was trying to create a Life Force bunker. So your ‘team’, as in a premade, stomped a pug and someone whom was running an experimental build to test Life force regen, one that I might add didn’t work. Well done.

B) Then who do you think is the best tank in the game? Who can do the most damage while surviving the most?

C) And why? Healing Signet doesn’t provide condition removal, yet I generally bring that on my Warrior. Troll Unguent doesn’t give condition removal, yet it’s the best heal in the game.

D) Shatter removal is AoE. Also I tend to see atleast 1-2 Mesmers per team when I run with my team.

Infact, Engineer has less condition removal than Mesmer when both are specced for it. Did you know that? I bet you didn’t.

Way to prove you don’t know your own class. Errr, Former class.

SPESHAL.9106:

Comparing Necro survivability to a bunker Ranger is where you first went wrong.

Secondly, Necros actually got buffed with this patch, so whining about our survivability makes you look foolish.

Maybe you should test things and really understand the patch before asking for a laundry list of ridiculous changes that make no sense.

Overall, this patch was pretty good for all professions and the game in general. If you don’t see that and think “Anet been making bad decisions”, then maybe you don’t know the game as much as you think.

The game isn’t perfect and I don’t agree with zero LF out of the gate, but the profession is dialed in pretty good overall. In fact, I can play almost any profession right now and not feel totally kitten .

Comparing a tank Necro to a tank Ranger is wrong?

Necromancers got buffed? Where? Where are the top tier Life Force bunkers?

Mmkay.

Very good for Guardian, I agree. Obviously I know nothing of the game to be making such accusations in well detailed/thought out manner.

I’m glad you can hotjoin any profession and not feel cheaped/kitten. I’m glad you can play meta builds for each class and not feel cheaped/kitten. Well done.

jportell.2197:

Mesmer condition cleanse is garbage compared to every other class especially when several other classes dont have to sacrifice any utility skills to clear conditions or a max of one. Give a situational condition cleanse in the heal skill or make the traits better but because of the spam happy condition meta most mesmers I know have shelved thiers in tourneys for something else.

As someone who mains a Shatter Mesmer after losing interest in Necromancer due to the constant buffs/nerfs, your post is completely false. Mesmer has plenty of condition removal. Want more? Grab a sigil of purity. Want even more than that? Cleanse conditions on shatter.

infantrydiv.1620:

In response to your response, I basically agree with this thread. However I think the necro buff showed that Anet’s policy towards necros is going to be “a good offense is the best defense”. That means necros need to expect being focused by enemy teams and trait accordingly with the options they have available.

Other than 1v1, I do not agree that stealth is overpowered. It isn’t great in tPvp since you’ll lose points simply by entering it. It’s also basically useless for pve except as a means of mob/aggro avoidance. And as for 1v1, stealth on thieves is confusing but the classes it is placed on rely on being confusing in the first place. I’m glad anet is willing to make mechanics like this that add a lot of flavor to individual classes.

Necro does have options for defensive mitigation, it’s easy to trait a necro with a huge percent of stability uptime if you so desire. Another point is that the necro’s health pool is huge which means they don’t need as much defensive mitigation. Imagine a bunker guardian with 30k health, it would be impossible to kill. Not to mention that necro’s condition transfering/cleansing is pretty amazing.

All that being said, your proposed changes to necro seem reasonable. A well that had stability and weakness pulsing on a relatively short cool down (kind of an AoE drain ability I’d imagine would be fitting for a lich) would be very cool and could solve some problems.

I would like to see defensive mitigation nerfed on some other classes. I feel like Anet has so far created a game that places more emphasis on defensive play in tournaments than offensive, and that’s just not very fun.

A bunker Guardian has alot more invulnerability and healing power than a Necro. Health doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things, it’s only good for mitigating condition damage, which I already stated that Necromancers are good at.

Also, if Deathshroud when traited for “Foot in the Grave” granted a stunbreaker along with the stability, then I’d say it’s pretty good. But at the moment, the few seconds of stability, while it is nice, again, highly situational. The only good defensive mitigation capaibilities that Necro has, are Protection from Wells, Condition Conversion (Again from Wells), moderate stability up time when traited.

As I said, it’s not enough.

However, while Stealth may be somewhat bad for capturing points, or large scale AoE, it is still strong mitigation, especially when built around. Prismatic Understanding Mesmers can win 1v5s in WvW, though, as you said, the only reason why they aren’t in PvP is because stealth loses points. Though, you could argue Invulnerability is bad for that same reason.