Guild Wars 2

Brighteluden, if you’re going to go that far, just go full Fearmancer. Honestly.

I keep feeling like our Lich is actually a green Macho man Randy Savage

And once again, someone attempts a burst build with no Furious Demise.

Really?

Not going to happen, sadly. I get what you’re talking about in terms of a Lich, honestly the best representation of a true Lich in modern video gaming is the Dragon Priests from Skyrim, truly amazing and I honestly wish our Necromancers could look like that. Not going to happen though. Instead we get a cartoony green glowing oversized Popeye the Sailor man with a Balthazaar mask.

Dragon Priest

Honestly, look at that and compare it to our Lich… really… just… ours doesn’t even come close.

I’d rather turn into Ghost Nappa for 30 seconds singing the song (Ghost Nappa) while blasting people than what I turn into now.

Blaine Tog.8304:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I’m not entirely positive why you’re using a dagger with those trait points, but it won’t help you much in this fight.

Basically, for a nice 5+2 combo to stack up bleeds quickly and 4 for extra condition removal

Use Axe/Dagger, it’s better for bleed stacking, you also get retaliation (Decent AoE Damage, AoE Cripple, and AoE bleeds when specced for it) and vulnerability from it as well. You also get solid DPS from Axe 2 even from a condition build, which is necessary to beat Elementalists as you cannot win with conditions alone unless you fear trap them to death.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

As deathhammer build, I have absolutely no problem sticking to and violating a DD elementalist. They either run, or die. Retal, kittenloads of power/tough/vit and boon corruption.

I don’t play any sPvP, but I’d imagine it’d work reasonably well there. I can solo elementalists all day…

Your build is completely unviable in tPvP and would be dominated by basic D/D Elementalists, so no. No offense.

Your burst is weak on that build, you have no fury access. On any bursting Necro build you NEED 15 in curses. Of course, my opinion doesn’t matter I suppose.

You could always go Lich form and generally a smart Ele would run away.

I’m not an expert in WvW, but in tPvP good D/D Elementalists are virtually unbeatable in 1v1. Fearmancers, and Blindmancers are the only builds I know of that dominate Elementalists.

Fearmancers can corrupt boons and keep their opponents chained in highly-damaging fears for a huge condition-burst. Where as Blindmancers turn their opponents into useless mounds of flesh and act as true attrition players, allows the blindmancer to stack constant conditions while the opponent cannot attack back and is essentially permablinded/chilled.

However, depending on your traits, you may have a chance by using constant interrupts, use Warhorn, use Doom, use Spectral Grasp, etc. but you would still have to have a very strong condition burst on him in order to do so. I’m not entirely positive why you’re using a dagger with those trait points, but it won’t help you much in this fight.

Dude, Necromancer’s dodge Mark ALREADY has a 10 second cooldown.

Congratulations, you’ve contributed nothing. We strayed off to a “Who’s worse” fight because I was laughing at how people were threatening to leave if you put a 10 second internal cooldown on a Dodge trait.

Anyhow, have fun crying over a hypothetical nerf that’s so totally GAMEBREAKING@!434! sarcasm

You literally know nothing of Necro to think any of these things are truly viable. In order to have passive condition removal, we would have to be Minionmancers, a very specific build with very specific purposes.

So instead of actually proving that Thieves aren’t OP that stealth isn’t an OP mechanic, you just go “All those players are just bad, and need to l2p”

Sure. In WvW, I’ve seen entire parties of thieves separate and eliminate Zergs. Not possible on any other class. In PvP their only OPness comes from stealth stomps/ressing and incredibly high damage bow/pistol capability (Good thieves, anyway)

By the way, Phor, it’s the job of other classes to call for nerfs on other classes. Defend your own class and ask for your own buffs. I’m not going to sit here crying for your class to be buffed in PvE when it clearly needs to be nerfed in PvP and WvW. Fight your own battles bro, I don’t ask you to sit there posting in Necro forum asking for badly needed buffs on Necro.

Thieves and Mesmers are always in denial about their classes being OP. (Despite Mesmer being significantly more balanced than Ele or Thief.)

Jack of all trades, master of none I’d suppose.

We have 3 reliable condition cleanses. We have no solid passive condition cleanse. We have little to no bursting capability. We have next to no access to boons. 0 Mobility. Deathshroud is broken, and bad. All you’re doing is whining about Necro condition application, which absolutely sucks compared to any other class including your precious Mesmer. I’ve seen plenty of Mesmers that dominate extremely skilled condition Necromancers, even Khalifa has been dominated by Mesmers.

Stop trying to pretend Mesmer is underpowered, you aren’t helping your argument. I’m actually laughing at how much you’re sounding like a WvW Thief going “Omg my dager storm neds buff, lawl my stealth is so bad i need teh bufz0r lol u necroz r so OP!@!”

Possibly because we’re not OP in WvW/PvP (infact, we’re downright barely viable), and our PvE capability has ALWAYS been garbage? Where have you been? Oh right… Thief…

Well, maybe it’ll give you the chance to see what it is like to be begging for a badly needed buff in a gametype like Necromancer.

I play Necromancer. Your cries about PvE do not have any impact upon me.

lol cleanse mobs

Funny, 99% of all Thieves I know become really bad players in high tier tPvP because they have to rely on gimmicky nonsensical bullocks, and instead choose to rely on OP stealth to Res and Stomp. Perhaps we should… I don’t know… nerf the living christ out of Stealth and perhaps… uhh.. maybe…. buff other stuff to make them less heartseeky and more diverse?

Ah but we shouldn’t balance around bad players/broken classes…

And by the time my Necro has you up to 8-10 stacks of bleed, the first 6 are going to be wearing off.

Also, I’d like to see you play a game of attrition with Necromancer.

Something that we can’t do, Bhawb.

So what I’m seeing here, Dual, is you completely ignored my above post to essentially say “Sure we need a buff, but don’t nerf our already OP skill to do it.”

Really?

Just… really?

Knockback is significantly stronger, and lasts longer depending on class/build. Plus it’s generally always AoE, and they have more access to it. Don’t use that argument with me, bro.

And here we go back to the CB/WoC argument you people love putting up. I’m just going to save you the time jportell and say “Scroll up” I’ve already countered all your recycled arguments.

Necromancer doesn’t even come remotely close to having strong bleeds or poison compared to other classes. My autoattack on half the classes when specced properly will do more than all of my Necro utilities combined. In less time. Mesmer’s confusion is a god tier condition, you can pretend it isn’t all you want, but I’ve used Mesmer. I’ve seen how fast it drops people compared to my Necro.

Yes, Bhawb, but our fear still doesn’t last long enough to truly make absolute use of it.

I would rather see Stealth nerfed into the ground, and other skills the Thief has buffed to compensate to open up more diversity, so they don’t have to rely on such predictable gimmicky tricks. Honestly the best Thief I know plays S/P even after the nerf, it’s highly unexpected and he uses it extraordinarily well. He’s also probably one of the very few Thieves I actually respect for skill and diversity.

Rofl, when was the last time ‘waiting’ three seconds didn’t get you killed? Confusion is widely considered the BEST condition in the game, I honestly wish that my Necro had access to that, or atleast burn. Don’t try to downplay that ridiculous condition. Almost all of my conversion kills were done by confusion. It’s incredibly strong.

Adaneshade.2409:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Oh, and the fact that every thief on the planet spams either Heartseeker, DeathBlossom, or Pistolwhip (This not so much after the nerf) as though they make a thousand dollars every click of the same overused worn out button. I kind of want to see how many Thief mainers have their ‘2’ key completely disintegrated.

Shouldn’t use absolutes like “every”, it just weakens your entire argument. S/D, for instance, is a very popular setup, as is P/D; neither of which even have those abilities you claim EVERY thief spams.

In fact, you’d be hard pressed to find a single thief in high tier PvP that spams any ability as it’s purely a ticket to an kitten whooping vs opponents with IQ’s higher than that of a brick.

Hi, I play high tier PvP.

I see heartseeker. Alot.

I see Deathblossom. Alot.

I also see Thieves guild. Alot.

Does it mean that my team loses to it? Generally no, despite backstab → heartseeker being so strong. It’s just overused, and I wouldn’t mind seeing more diversity in Thief so that I might actually pick one up again and not have to rely on 2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2 or some other nonsensical skill.

Advent.6193:

Well, TheMightyAltroll … you didn’t ask for “good” versions, you mentioned certain abilities and I mentioned Necromancer equivalents. Hell, I suppose you also forgot
a couple of months ago, the whole bit about the Devs “looking to share Portal-like mechanics with other classes?” I distinctly remember Necro and Engi getting mentions in the multiple threads that followed that biz. As for underestimation, I regularily cap Bleed stacks on my Necro. I sure as hells cap ‘em better on him, than on Ele/Mesmer/or Thief. Regarding Well of Corruption and Wells in general, it’s all about timing.
As for which class needs nerf or buff: check most of my posting history on this kind of crap. I’d like to say I’m known for fully supporting buffs for weaker classes/class specs, instead of this silly kitten nerfing across the board BS. Folk what cry “OP” just find a new thing to carp about. Unfortunately, I am not an ANet dev, thus you can see exactly how much my opinion really counts.

If you think Necromancers are the king of bleeds, then I’m sorry to say, but you’re just not playing those other classes properly. I know a Thief that can give a player capped bleed and 30 seconds worth of poison/cripple off Deathblossom in a very short period of time (Because Caltrops) (Also granted Mesmer doesn’t have much access to bleed, they have access to confusion which is a hell of alot better imo). Regardless, Mesmers don’t need a buff, and again: Either nerf the hell out of Mesmers(And a couple other classes), or buff the hell out of Necromancers/Warriors

Good discussion, though. Atleast you’re one of the few people that can give counter arguments on these forums. All the Thief players do is go “nou l2p”

You’re dense. I’m ignoring you now.

Stealth, practically invulnerable.

Flesh Wurm… you’re actually comparing Flesh Wurm to shadow step, blink, or portal? I can’t take you seriously after that. Also Spectral Walk isn’t good enough to merit it’s overly long CD.

Mark of Blood regen? Lifesteal? BLood magic? Have you tried sustaining on leeching/regen? Honestly…

Well of Corruption? Srsly bro? That has LESS boon conversion than “Convert Boon” for more CD. Don’t make me laugh.

By the way, Consume Conditions and Putrid Mark are the only solid condition removal we have that aren’t laughable. If you’re thinking of Plague Signet, I’m just going to say ‘lol’

You really enjoy overestimating Necromancer’s capabilities, don’t you? I can stack 20-25 bleeds just using autoattack with a sigil of Earth on Ranger shortbow. I can stack 16-20 bleeds, 20-25 vulnerability, and 3-7 seconds of burn AoE off my Engineer’s grenade 1 (Not to mention the other skills). You obviously don’t have much experience with other classes, so I’ll just say this: trust me, Necromancer/Warrior either needs a huge kitten buff, or Mesmer/Elementalist/Ranger need gigantic nerfs.

DanH.5879:

flow.6043:

DanH.5879:

it is funny how you try to defend your skill that literally melts a whole zerg
that’s how i get 5-10++ conditions at 1 time ! some random necro spamming epidemic

step.1. get 2 mesmers ,1 ele, and 2 necros
step.2 spam condtions on 1 guy (lots of confusions,chill/bleed etc.)
step.3 necros assist puting epidemic on that one guy
step.4 all zerg is full of conditions, all zerg having 6+ confusion stacks, bleeds, burns etc. etc.)
step.5 collect lootbags from all

funny, funny

lol do you even play a necromancer?
Havn’t we all heard the story of the 2 necros who “literally melted a whole zerg” …with a 5-target aoe limit xD

Here’s how your scenario would really play out:
step.1. get 2 mesmers ,1 ele, and 2 necros
step.2 spam condtions on 1 guy (lots of confusions,chill/bleed etc.)
step.3 30-man zerg rolls over your little group
step.4 shameful respawn

i never said it was 5 vs 30, just a party of 5 :P

That’s not a zerg, you choob. Besides, that strategy wouldn’t work on any solid group with coordinated removal. If you have a group coordinated enough to apply conditions like that, they can have a group coordinated enough to remove all of it.

Counter to your little group? 2 Eles, 2 Guardians, and 1 Ranger. Coordinated condition removal, impossible to kill with your pathetic strategy.

Just goes to show that people whom say “Necro don’t need buffs, they’re OP as is” have no idea how to play Necro.

I’m currently in an argument on Mesmer profession about how many of them would quit if they put a cooldown on their clone-dodge… (Equivalent of our 10 second Mark of Evasion). They actually think Mesmer is underpowered and needs buffs, while Necromancer is high tier.

DanH.5879:

it is funny how you try to defend your skill that literally melts a whole zerg
that’s how i get 5-10++ conditions at 1 time ! some random necro spamming epidemic

step.1. get 2 mesmers ,1 ele, and 2 necros
step.2 spam condtions on 1 guy (lots of confusions,chill/bleed etc.)
step.3 necros assist puting epidemic on that one guy
step.4 all zerg is full of conditions, all zerg having 6+ confusion stacks, bleeds, burns etc. etc.)
step.5 collect lootbags from all

funny, funny

Let me guess… You’re a thief that likes his 2 button a little too much?

Here’s a fun task for you:

1) Make a Condition Necromancer
2) Find a group with the cooperation and organization that you posted above
3) Go into a tournament against a good competitive guild
4) Find someone that doesn’t have any solid condition removal (Impossible.)
5) Try your epidemic strategy.

See how often it works.

I have difficulty keeping 3 conditions on a good group, let alone what you think is possible. Ah, but you must play bad players. Well in that case, anything is overpowered when you’re fighting bad players. Blood is Power when specced properly is a 50 second bleed that will kill you if you don’t cure it. I suppose that’s OP too if they don’t cure it and die.

Give me passive Regen and condition removal (and maybe stability) in Deathshroud, like Thieves and Mesmers have in stealth please.

From a tPvP perspective:

Passive stealth regen/condition removal, stealth stomping/ressing, and Thieves guild. That is all.

That’s the only reason I dislike Thieves (Mesmers as well), they pop into stealth with 20 conditions on them and dying with less than 10% health. 5 seconds later they come out clean, almost fully healed and with a bunch of highly-damaging AI around them. Honestly? Don’t get me started about Shadow Refuge ressing/stomping.

Oh, and the fact that every thief on the planet spams either Heartseeker, DeathBlossom, or Pistolwhip (This not so much after the nerf) as though they make a thousand dollars every click of the same overused worn out button. I kind of want to see how many Thief mainers have their ‘2’ key completely disintegrated.

You people are actually threatening to leave the game over such a small insignificant hypothetical nerf? Mesmer? Really?

I’m a Necromancer, you couldn’t even fathom the crap I have to deal with. “Omg I’d quit the game, you people just need to l2p and beat Mesmer”

How about nerfing passive regen and condition removal in stealth for all classes? Imagine if I regenned or condition removed while in Deathshroud. Hell, imagine if I could stomp…

Depends on what you’re going for, it’d be alot easier to explain this ingame. What times are you generally on? I’ll be on in about 7-8 hours as I’m going to sleep at the moment.

DanH.5879:

question: why should it be unblockable?
OP skill, imo
does respect the 5 targets max rule ???
not to mentioned that 15 sec CD is an awful LOW cooldown for such a powerful skill (almost spamable), none of my thief utilities have lower than 30 seconds !

AND if traited epidemic goes down to 12 seconds … ahaha… OP is OP and you can’t deny it

one of the reasons a necro collects 2 times more lootbags than me daggerstorming the middle of the enemy zerg ! :P

Do you have any comprehension of how difficult it is to get a solid epidemic on a solid stack? So many things have to go right, they could block it, dodge it, clean the conditions as you’re putting it on them, stealth while you’re doing it (Cleaning them while stealthed, a real OP capability imo), or you could be interrupted, and that is just trying to land the SKILL. Trying to stack enough conditions to make it worthwhile to use is something completely different, and in a 1v1 situation, it’s a wasted slot against most classes.

I’ll help you ingame, if you wish. Add me.

I am helping him ingame. He is highly unfamiliar with Necromancer.

Bhawb.7408:

Cripple and chill are soft CC’s, immobilize is arguably a soft CC as well (maybe weakness to a degree). Then fear, any forced displacement (knockup/knockback/pull), daze, and stun are hard CCs. Every necromancer has 1 hard CC, Doom, and 1 soft CC, Dark Path’s chill. Then there is only 1 weapon (dagger offhand) without any CC, every other weapon has at least 1 CC, meaning the lowest amount of CC you can possibly have as a necromancer is 1 chill, 1 fear, and 1 cripple, whereas most will have at least 1 more.

Yes, we have more CC than anything barring a few specific builds (like hammer builds).

Engineer CC builds have more CC than we could possibly dream of.

I think they’re good visual suggestions, but I also think there needs to be some more for other skills that are more often used. I’m really sick of Necrotic Grasp, I have to sit there using it 10,000 times a day and all I see is this weird and out of place claw coming out of my bloody scythe. Why would Necromancers shoot disembodied hands at people? I mean, it’s just out of place. I can understand spectral grasp, I can even understand Dark Path, but… WE HAVE TOO MANY SEVERED HAND THEMES!!! Not enough mythical, too much cartoony. Next I would improve some of visuals of corruption skills, they seem so lackluster just “They’re there now!@$! I think…” Blood is Power could use a visual effect of some sort, as well as Corrupt Boon.

Hahaha, cartoon minions. Someone wants to befriend the wildlife, eh?

I’m truly hopeful of a real overhaul to Necromancers’ artwork, balance, and playstyle. Such as changing the way Necrotic grasp looks and works for instance, it could be a green fireball similar to that of Spectral Wall that adds a stack of Weakness or burn to merit the incredibly slow cast time. Change the way Marks look, and work, make them more dynamic so that an opponent might actually be afraid to step on those ‘landmines’.

First of all, what I’m hoping to achieve in starting this thread is a list compiled by all the Necromancers on here of what they would like to change in these subjects, and then support the suggestions you would like to see the most.

• Visuals
• Balance
• Overall Playstyle

If you have a suggestion that fits into any of these categories, do please post it. I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the ideas people could come up with. Hopefully, if we get enough debate and voting going on, the Devs will take notice and consider changing our class around a bit.

Agreed. I wouldn’t mind my Necro/Warrior being raised onto a level playing field of Mesmers and Ele tanks.

When it comes to tournaments, I adapt to the situation. I’m very desired on this build because of my constant blinds and chills. Turns group fights into the favor of my team. Sometimes I’ll run Signet of Undeath, but I personally prefer running Epidemic or CPC for high level play. As for your thief, that’s specifically why I pack the Spectral grasp, I pull them back into my Well of blindness and chill them (I also use the grasp to interrupt Orbers or stompers that lack Stability). Then I proceed to stack conditions on them. I’m not immune to damage, but I can cope with it very well on this build. I’ve found that Deathshroud 2 is one of my best friends as well. This isn’t a melee build, but it seems the closer I am to my opponent, the deadlier I become.

Thank you for your input

Nah, I actually found it very tanky. The only way they could burst me successfully would be to stun me, and then I get Reaper’s Protection, if they tried to burst me without doing that, I can blind them for a long time and have access to my high damage conditions.

I keep Corrupt Boon around for a handy burst against boon spammers. Normally, if they aren’t using boons much then that means I can whittle them down to nothing, if they go for high damage or bunker, then they end up stacking them on. Immediately I then go into my Spectral Grasp, then Corrupt Boon, then I begin stacking fears and chills/poison. Generally they die rather quickly.

By the way, if you guys want to talk to me ingame about stuff (I’m a huge theory crafter, I’ve made like 28 builds) feel free to.

Edit: Runes of the Necromancer are the best for the main purpose, but Runes of the Orrian are also incredibly good, as are Runes of the Afflicted.

Yeah, the Runes of Grenth also work, Runes of the Nightmare can work as well. Pretty much just change it to your tastes.

I believe it’s ineffective unless you’re actually wielding weapon, but no they certainly do not stack. None of the sigils stack.

If I’m wrong, then I’d easily replace the Sigil of Venom on my Staff with a Sigil of Agony. However, the Poison is more necessary.