Guild Wars 2

jportell.2197:

Just curious if power necro is tourney viable I am going for my next champ title which is phantom and absolutely despise condition builds I think they are nothing more than mindless spamming…. So is there a viable power necro build? I was thinking axe/focus+dagger/warhorn 30/10/0/0/30

Wellmancer. I had a good one back when I cared about GW2 competitively. You can have it if you want, don’t know if it still works, but it was the best one I had ever seen when I was still playing.

Tormentor
0/30/20/0/20
IV, IX, X, V, VIII, IV, IX
6 Runes of the Necromancer
Carrion Amulet (Carrion Jewel)
Staff (Sigil of Geomancy)
Scepter (Sigil of Agony) Dagger (Sigil of Geomancy)
Consume Conditions, Spectral Wall, Plague Signet, Well of Darkness/Spectral Walk, Flesh Golem/Plague Form

That was a build from my old metas post, it still works very well. I just wish they didn’t nerf the Sigils of Paralyzation, so that I could still get 17 seconds of terror.

The way it works, is simply fearing them past your spectral wall, chill them with Staff 3, then dodge forward infront of them, turning them around, and use Deathshroud 3, they’ll run through the wall again and refresh their fear duration once more. Then use Deathshroud 2 on them, activate Deathshroud 5, then simply switch from staff to Scepter, and hit them with Scepter 5 -> 2 then autoattack.

You will apply a huge amount of conditions upon them, and if they do not have atleast 2 Crowd Control removal abilities, they will die.

Alternatively,
You could try this one out, if you’re less about killing, more about being the most annoying creature on the planet.

Blind Cold and Afraid II (Control build)
20/30/20/0/0
V, X , III, IX, X, V, VIII
6 Runes of Grenth
Carrion Amulet
Staff (Sigil of Venom)
Scepter (Sigil of Venom) Dagger (Sigil of Chilling)
Consume Conditions, Corrupt Boon, Spectral Grasp, Well of Darkness, Plague Form

This build is designed to spam blinds, chills, poisons, and fear. It is not meant to outright kill people, but to make an entire team of enemies suffer considerably in teamfights. I have managed to achieve nearly 50 seconds of chill, AoE. I had to fight this build alot in 1v1s when I ran my Necro school, and it’s absolutely obnoxious to have to deal with if you don’t build entirely upon condition cleanses.

Allow me to resurrect something dead that I made ages ago in the fashion of a Necromancer, because apparently, it still applies.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Necromancer-Survivability-Explanation-Advice/first#post2497882

In order to make a heavy-sustain hero, or class, you need a way to negate mitigation, while bolstering your own, and providing steady, decent damage. Necromancer will lose almost any fights it tries to use a sustaining strategy with.

Instead, Necro was, and still is, one of the strongest bursting classes available. Whereas Guardian, Engineer, Mesmer, Ranger, and some Warrior builds, are better for sustaining.

The closest I ever got to a sustain build, was my Vampiric Condition build (I forget what I called it, it was part of my Metas post).

Flumek.9043:

I think your going from wrong direction. Well never have siphon,minion,power,condi = 4x types of necro great in 3 different parts of game (pve,pvp,wvw), each with diferent stages, level or size of play. And thats for any class.

What is ask you is more what part of game do you play?

Edit:
@Cogbyrn. Dont joke, scpeter/focus is best for power in pvp atm axe just doesnt work sadly

That’s, not even remotely correct. Dagger+Focus is the best for straight DPS in PvP, always has been. Wellmancer, more specifically.

I returned for a short time, played 5 games tPvP. Necro is fine, for the most part. Vampirism is still nonsensically bad. However, our condition output, and DPS output, is still very strong.

Warrior, Engineer, and in some cases Guardian, simply need minor nerfs to bring back into line.

It’s been about 5 months since I’ve played GW2. I don’t know exactly what has overall changed in the PvP aspect. So I’ll ask everyone’s opinion and answers on a few questions.

So, did they nerf Necro? Or buff everyone else?

Did they finally fix Vampirism to where it isn’t useless and only-working on hybrids?

Did they fix the match making?

Do people still think having a high standing on leaderboards make them pro?

And lastly, is it worth coming back on to theory craft new builds for Necro, and relearn the new patches?

I left the last time, because I got tired of Arenanet making it harder for me to do things with experimentation. I could no longer swap builds out in PvP if a build I was testing didn’t work, so I was forced to lose, sabotage teams, or end up wasting time. Not to mention restricting that disabled counter-play, so it often ended up being a rock-paper-scissors game decided in the first half. Which I disliked.

So, did they change any of that for the better? Or should I just not even bother anymore?

Rigel.3092:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Necromancer-Survivability-Explanation-Advice/first#post2497882

Toughness and Vitality barely mean anything.

Keep believing that, please. lol

Too many instances to recall within a WvW environment to illustrate that toughness and vitality has indeed made many a necro the last man standing………

I said barely. It matters, ever so slightly. However, any Necro that remains alive in a zerg battle, is not alive based upon toughness/vitality. The defensive/offensive mitigation list I linked shows abilities are far stronger for survivability than raw-facetanking. As evidenced by anyone whom has spent 5 minutes playing tourneys.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Necromancer-Survivability-Explanation-Advice/first#post2497882

Toughness and Vitality barely mean anything.

Godless.1857:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

He’s looking for a healing staff build. That sounds like a Guardian to me. Regardless, support Necromancers aren’t as useful for supporting as other classes. The only thing they’re good for in terms of support, is condition removal and Regen. Which our condition removal was nerfed, by the by.

Regardless of if a Necromancer can or cannot support as well as other classes, the OP was asking for a necro support build, not to be told that he cannot do it.

I’m giving him advice to seek something else out. Essentially that’s like someone asking for an underwater house made of particle board. You could try building it for him, or explain to him what is wrong with that notion.

He’s looking for a healing staff build. That sounds like a Guardian to me. Regardless, support Necromancers aren’t as useful for supporting as other classes. The only thing they’re good for in terms of support, is condition removal and Regen. Which our condition removal was nerfed, by the by.

Bhawb.7408:

His build is 100% about countering the meta he saw to get into the top 100. He got into the top 100. That is it. He isn’t there saying he found the best necro tank build, or that he has a super amazing build that is going to be the new meta, he put in a flippin disclaimer that says that, he just posted a build that works in very niche situations (top 100ish meta). Don’t worry, he’s not trying to take over your position, you can calm down.

I’m rating his build overall. Any build can make it into the top 100 if you get lucky enough to be carried more often than not.

I’m actually amazed he came up with the build. Despite not working, it still has potential. I’m hoping he’ll fix it up for more… competitive play.

Cloudysheep.8319:

Hey guys, So my guild just got into guild wars 2 about a week ago and i just hit 80. I am now looking for some kind of build for a healing build, again i just hit 80 so i have no lvl 80 gear and gems etc.

This is the rough build i have right now: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBmWDbESrSPZzTjePBIp46nneQ+4iHpYYiB

Any help is appreciated guys. later.

There is no decent support Necro build. No such build exists, because Necro cannot support as well as Warrior, Guardian, or Elementalist.

oZii.2864:

Seriously themightyaltroll your posts sound like a “hater”. Like this guy upstaged you or something and you came to discredit someone who is higher rank than you. Like you would counter with I can get the same rank as him but I don’t feel like it response.

He didn’t upstage me, and I don’t need to discredit him. Truth be told, he was the one trying so hard to discredit me so long ago. Though I don’t care. His build doesn’t work, and needs to be improved upon. I’ve made dozens upon dozens of attempts to make a viable Necro tank. Few of which worked. His build is very similar to one of my many failures.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Blaine Tog.8304:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I’ve already tried shaking up the meta with builds that worked alot better than this one, you saw how that ended up.

Yes, with your thread imploding due to an excess of priggishness on your part.

He stated specifically that this build is intended to counter the builds he’s seen at high ranking. Last I’d heard, you weren’t highly ranked, which implies you lack experience of the environment in which this build is intended to function. It might be considered wise to refrain from laying down heavy pronunciations regarding settings of which one is ignorant.

Because getting to a high solo queue rank is by in itself pure luck. I have played 10 solo queue matches today, and out of 10 games, 7 of them had multiple players drop from the game. Regardless it does not take an excellent build to pubstomp when you have a team to carry you. I tried his build, tested it against other builds, and it failed miserably. Which is far more than the naysayers did for mine. The problem is, it doesn’t have enough survivability to bunker, and not enough damage to tank. It’s split too much.

Honestly, all that means is you weren’t accustomed to his build and therefore did not play it it peak efficiency. Clearly it does work. He proved it, and yes while some of solo queue is luck, you’re not gonna get in the top 100 or beyond just off of luck. In fact, pretty sure he said he stopped at 87-ish once he realized there was no reward for solo queue xD

I can play any Necro role, and any Necro build. I played it as intended. Regardless, it’s not effective. And it cannot be effective. Because the stats don’t work. You cannot beat skilled players with it.

Anyhow, solo queue is entirely luck-based. My rank either goes up because we get a good match, I win, we get a bad match but they are at disadvantage, and I win. Or my rank goes down, because they get a good match, they win, or my team quits, and they win. They get good players, or they get bad players. I get good players, or I get bad players.

Blaine Tog.8304:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I’ve already tried shaking up the meta with builds that worked alot better than this one, you saw how that ended up.

Yes, with your thread imploding due to an excess of priggishness on your part.

He stated specifically that this build is intended to counter the builds he’s seen at high ranking. Last I’d heard, you weren’t highly ranked, which implies you lack experience of the environment in which this build is intended to function. It might be considered wise to refrain from laying down heavy pronunciations regarding settings of which one is ignorant.

Because getting to a high solo queue rank is by in itself pure luck. I have played 10 solo queue matches today, and out of 10 games, 7 of them had multiple players drop from the game. Regardless it does not take an excellent build to pubstomp when you have a team to carry you. I tried his build, tested it against other builds, and it failed miserably. Which is far more than the naysayers did for mine. The problem is, it doesn’t have enough survivability to bunker, and not enough damage to tank. It’s split too much.

This build of yours doesn’t work. It’s a tank with no damage, and a bunker with no survivability. Vampire builds work much better than this, and that’s to say not at all.

Not to be mean, but this simply doesn’t work. The meta is based on Conditionmancery because that’s all anyone sees Necromancer as due to the overbuff. I’ve already tried shaking up the meta with builds that worked alot better than this one, you saw how that ended up.

A few hundred people liked my builds, and that was it. Certainly not enough to change the meta since all of the ‘pros’ that define the meta stuck with their crappy conditionmancers.

I hope you do change the meta, Xom. Though you won’t this way.

Hawatak.8049:

Same for me I won’t answer to such a troll. Play the game before coming to the forums.

I answered, and stated counter arguments to all of his statements. Any dumb statements he made I replied with dumb answers, such as accusing a developer of only using Necromancer. If you aren’t going to read, or say anything regarding the topic YOU asked me for, then don’t ask for it.

Very well, I shall respond to his false/moot arguments.

saVdoom.2067:

You sir… .Perhaps you should try to run those builds (cleanse on mantras and/or shatter cleanse) and taste some of your own advices. Instead everytime i meet you in a tournament match you’re on your necromanser

So I’m assuming you stalk him endlessly? What kind of toothpaste does he use?

saVdoom.2067:

Besides the “condi” meta that you want to keep as well as push the other metas, is completely bad and has the lowest skill floor since its all about spamming them

I could say that White Damage is simply spamming autoattack or certain utilities too.

saVdoom.2067:

there is no depth in WHICH condition i should use at WHICH exact time, no risk since you can do it from far, and most of the condi is RNG burning from a simple trait which people can’t even react against, people just spam those shots and suddenly they apply heaps amount of burning damage. The state of the game after the patch has never been so terrible and i’m sure 80% of the community including the people who play those “meta classes” would agree.

Let’s see… if they activate a heal and have high healing power, you might poison. If they’re very mobile, or have just used their heal/CDs, you might Chill. I can react against burning quite well, condition cleansing is fun. What weapons can you spam burning with? I’d like to know, so I can spam them. Also, ‘heaps’ of burning is moot, since burning doesn’t intensify. The patch did infact ruin alot of things, but your complaints are not about things that were ruined.

saVdoom.2067:

The only condi class, semi-balanced and fun to play is engineer.

Moot, and opinionated.

saVdoom.2067:

Necro has 1 main viable build which does everything, hard cc, hard dps and now hard survivability.

That is completely false. Necromancer condition meta builds tend to be one of the glassiest in the game. You obviously have never used Necromancer. Besides, I could argue Shatter Mesmer can do all of that as well.

saVdoom.2067:

Don’t even get me started or rangers.

Oh, please do tell us how Rangers can spew fire out of their ears.

Yes, Rangers are overpowered in today’s meta. However, I doubt you know explicitly why.

saVdoom.2067:

Guardians has been a must in every single competitive team since release – so you think that’s balanced right?

Because they’re one of the best bunker/support classes in the game? And balanced? We can’t have that…

saVdoom.2067:

Thiefs have some room for build diversity but they’re mainly funneled into one build which has everything in one skill which they can spam mindlessly – high damage, boon stripping, evade at the same time, no cooldown or risk in using it as many times you want.

Wait wait wait… they have build diversity, but then you say they are funneled into one build? Which is it?

I’d say that S/D is a bit too strong, if that’s what you’re referring to, but no risk? That’s a lie.

saVdoom.2067:

Elementalists also probably one class with some build diversity cept for staff, but got completely disregarded due necro/engineer/sd thief/ spirit ranger/guardian setup being godly in all situations, in all scales 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5.

Elementalist has build diversity? WHERE!?

Necro, Engi, Guardian, Thief, godly in all situations? WHERE!?

Spirit Ranger is godly in all situations? Kind of.

Know what class really is good for all situations? Mesmer. Good at roaming, best at 1v1, and has the utility to aid team in any situation.

saVdoom.2067:

Hell the winning team in PAX NA had what? 2 rangers? Yeah that’s fun to watch, a whole bunch of AI pets doing the heavy lifting.

Then whine to them about lacking class diversity. I know a few classes that could easily do Ranger’s job just as well.

saVdoom.2067:

Warriors also semi balanced probably one of the best designed class atm due their telegraphed skills which every class should have in order to see nice counter plays. But also mainly funneled now into a 1v1 role due the massive opness of the condi meta (were also brought viable due berserk stance mainly).

Warrior. Balanced. Best designed class because of telegraphed skills. Warriors good at 1v1 due to conditions.

http://cdn.meme.li/i/o6yzg.jpg

saVdoom.2067:

I’ll also not even comment on mesmers, we all and their grandmothers know what’s wrong with mesmers which is: no build diversity, essentially mesmers are FINE/OK within balance but since others are out of hand they also got no room.

So… Mesmers are terrible… because they have very little build diversity… and they’re imbalanced , because they’re balanced.

Hawatak.8049:

I definitely like you man. Anet 0 – 1 saVdoom. Anyway, good summary.

Hawatak, you do realize almost everything saVdoom said was incorrect, right?

Mesmers are superior to Engineer, Warrior, and Thief. The meta is condition based, if the meta switched to White magic right now: Elementalist and Mesmer would be at the top.

By the way, you were referring to a ‘rook’ from Chess, and 2 rooks can easily be more useful than a single queen, if used properly.

Whisper me ingame sometime when I’m on. I’ll help you, or find one of the Necro teachers to help you.

They do, actually. Sigil of Purity, knowing how to avoid some of the condition spam. I last for very long times in group fights with my Mesmer. Even longer than my Necro.

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Regardless, Mesmers are in a fine place, but the current meta revolves around Necromancers, and certain Necromancer builds are direct counters to certain Mesmer builds. Therefore people automatically believe Mesmer is completely utterly unviable, when that is simply not the case.

I feel dumb for responding, but I must respond to this…

Let’s get rid of the Necro condi spam meta… and turn back the hands of time. Which builds are viable for Mesmer in the high end competitive meta?

Oh that’s right Shatter… Sword/Focus. What else? Phantasm? NO!, Condi? NO!, Bunker? NO!… that’s right Shatter.

One build. One. 1. Uno.

Even if we got rid of the current meta Mesmers would still only have one build. One. How is that Mesmer’s being in a good spot? And if you mention crappy non viable builds like Phantasm and Retaliation Bunker as being a possibility in any meta then you are a joke and a terrible player.

GS Phantasmal is viable, it’s also the current roaming meta, and if you disagree with me, then you aren’t as familiar with Mesmer as you think you are. Shatter is viable, though significantly underused in today’s meta. Prismatic Condition was also made very powerful, but the stealth unfortunately makes it unviable. So yes, 2 builds. I agree, that’s pathetic. If you want to complain about build variety, then fine. However, Mesmer is still viable. Since they provide a burst and utility combination no other class can.

Yes, I agree, Mesmer’s build variety sucks, but that’s not grounds to say Mesmer sucks.

GS Phantasm build is a joke. If you play against a good team, you may as well 4/5. I can’t take you seriously anymore. Thanks for the confirmation.

Thanks for the meaningless argument. If you want tips on how to use Mesmer, let me know ingame, I’ll help you out.

jportell.2197:

I am not on the leader boards nor do I care about it I am a hard core theory crafter of mesmer builds and have been since I started playing mesmer and myself and other mesmers that are actually legitimately versed in all builds of the mesmer and their viability in team compositions for tournaments. These people (Pyro/Chaosarchangel/Xeph/Jasher/Osicat (best known mesmer in game to mesmers). Are all in agreement that mesmer is in a not so great spot. So congrats on using a mesmer build that has been the standard since beta’s. Here is a cookie. Most however will agree that mesmer is not viable in the current meta using any build. That is the sad truth.

Compared to what? Necromancer? NO class is as strong as Necromancer currently, because Necromancer is overpowered.

Mesmer is fine, it’s strong, viable, it does it’s job well. Don’t say that Mesmer sucks or is bad when your comparison are 2 broken classes. Mesmer easily topples Warrior, Thief, Guardian, and Engineer in numerous ways. The only thing I see, is that Mesmer lacks build variety. Period. That’s not grounds to say it sucks.

As I said, Mesmer seems weak because the top 2 meta-defining classes are simply overpowered. It really isn’t though.

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Regardless, Mesmers are in a fine place, but the current meta revolves around Necromancers, and certain Necromancer builds are direct counters to certain Mesmer builds. Therefore people automatically believe Mesmer is completely utterly unviable, when that is simply not the case.

I feel dumb for responding, but I must respond to this…

Let’s get rid of the Necro condi spam meta… and turn back the hands of time. Which builds are viable for Mesmer in the high end competitive meta?

Oh that’s right Shatter… Sword/Focus. What else? Phantasm? NO!, Condi? NO!, Bunker? NO!… that’s right Shatter.

One build. One. 1. Uno.

Even if we got rid of the current meta Mesmers would still only have one build. One. How is that Mesmer’s being in a good spot? And if you mention crappy non viable builds like Phantasm and Retaliation Bunker as being a possibility in any meta then you are a joke and a terrible player.

GS Phantasmal is viable, it’s also the current roaming meta for Mesmer, and if you disagree with me, then you aren’t as familiar with Mesmer as you think you are. Shatter is viable, though significantly underused in today’s meta. Prismatic Condition was also made very powerful, but the stealth unfortunately makes it unviable. So yes, 2 builds. I agree, that’s pathetic. If you want to complain about build variety, then fine. However, Mesmer is still viable. Since they provide a burst and utility combination no other class can.

Yes, I agree, Mesmer’s build variety sucks, but that’s not grounds to say Mesmer sucks.

zone.1073:

Step 1: Make five+ engi, mesmer, necro, etc characters.

Step 2: Pop elite in team fight. Swap chars. Pop elite in every team fight. Repeat.

You cannot do that.

Nik Rane.6431:

No, they’re not going to give you the option to switch your character in-game. You would just use it to counter the opponents’ builds after you learned what they are. Stop being bad and prepare based on the 2 minutes of information that they give you before the match starts.

So you want the game to be based entirely on matchups. What happens if your team happens to be entirely condition based, and your opponents team is entirely condition resistant?

What a wonderful match that would be.

I’d like to challenge you to a Rock Paper Scissors match, but you only get one chance at beating me. Esports.

Mammoth.1975:

Don’t waste your time Jasher. He made the same offer to someone in the necro forum when trying to argue that dhuumfire builds were not optimal for tpvp. He got someone else to fight a duel for him, that person lost horribly, he fired massive batteries of excuses and dropped out of sight for a few weeks.

Altroll, how you doing on that soloqueue leaderboard?

You’re a shining example of what is wrong with the community. I challenged the person to test his skill against 5 of my builds. The very first build he fought was the worst 1v1 build I had on the list, one that doesn’t even have any sustained capability on it’s own, since it was a control build, not a damage build/survivability build.

Regardless, you’ve got a reaction out of me, so I can say well done. Though I really should ignore you, something about your arguments just make me want to slap you in the face with a book repeatedly. They’re so passive-aggressive skeptical and illogical. You’re so immune to reason it’s like I’m staring at a scientific marvel.

Noince.7364:

Just here to say my opinion and provide my feedback to any topic devs appear to pay attention to. I’ve said my piece and so did you. You feel mesmers are totally fine currently, and I do not.

Its not just the general population around the boards that agree mesmers are low tier in tourney and so do top teams apparently because not a single Mesmer was used. In addition to the supporting comments by top players in these said teams of feeling like a liability when using a mesmer.

I’m gonna respect the OP and not continue the discussion.

And I would disagree with 90% of the things these boards say. Though I’m glad you took a mature route and not tried to go “udun no wat u talk bout, u suk” on me. Commendable.

Regardless, Mesmers are in a fine place, but the current meta revolves around Necromancers, and certain Necromancer builds are direct counters to certain Mesmer builds. Therefore people automatically believe Mesmer is completely utterly unviable, when that is simply not the case.

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

I know you. I spoke with you in Team Speak one night when you were “teaching” me about Necromancers.

Obviously you weren’t one of my better students, since I tend to remember them.

Well I play a Mesmer, and I’m ranked in the top 400. I’m not the best player in the world, but I’m not terrible and I know more than a little about my class. Mesmers are NOT in a good spot right now.

I can prove to you that they are ingame.

Also, never point to rank as a viable argument. Ranking in the game is broken, and tends to be based more upon luck than anything, and most of the players that point to their rank for viability tend to not know what they speak of.

Jasher.6580:

I know you. I spoke with you in Team Speak one night when you were “teaching” me about Necromancers.

Obviously you weren’t one of my better students, since I tend to remember them. There have only been a handful of students I bring into voice chat, at that. So you definitely weren’t memorable.

Regardless, skill is not in question here. If we wanted to question personalities, then I’d argue over your attitude and intelligence, though that would get the topic on hand nowhere.

The topic I responded to was about Mesmer viability. I explained they are highly viable. I know many Mesmers, far better than myself whom would concur.

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

jportell.2197:

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

Hi, I’m a Mesmer. I can do everything you said we can’t.

Now what?

You’re not a Mesmer. You’re predominantly play a Necro, I know you. You’re also not that “pro”. (I’m trying to be nice here)

Obviously you do not know me, then. I main Mesmer. I gave up Necro when I realized I had an unfair advantage over most other classes. I only use my Necro in high-stakes games, or when I feel the need to theory craft. I decided it would be a good time as any to master the Mesmer.

Any player that knows me personally, and fights against me often, knows what I am capable of. You obviously do not know me, or never fought me.

Or perhaps you’re judging based off of a random solo queue, when I was testing a theory crafted build. Because those always show pure skill.

So you’re new to Mesmer and you play against bad players. Okay gotcha.

I’m not new to Mesmer. I play whatever players I end up fighting. As I stated, you obviously do not know me, and I do not know you.

Anything else before I ignore you? Skeptical people that ignore facts/logic and choose to discredit rather than disprove tend to annoy me, and I tend to ignore them. Also, here’s a tip for your arguments in the future:

Don’t try to discredit people’s skill, discredit their arguments. All you do is become provocative and pointless when you do the former.

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

jportell.2197:

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

Hi, I’m a Mesmer. I can do everything you said we can’t.

Now what?

You’re not a Mesmer. You’re predominantly play a Necro, I know you. You’re also not that “pro”. (I’m trying to be nice here)

Obviously you do not know me, then. I main Mesmer. I gave up Necro when I realized I had an unfair advantage over most other classes. I only use my Necro in high-stakes games, or when I feel the need to theory craft. I decided it would be a good time as any to master the Mesmer.

Any player that knows me personally, and fights against me often, knows what I am capable of. You obviously do not know me, or never fought me.

Or perhaps you’re judging based off of a random solo queue, when I was testing a theory crafted build. Because those always show pure skill.

I can’t tell you how many times I have wanted to switch to another toon to bring a superior edge to my team. Let’s say, the match starts, and I suddenly realized I’m stuck with 4 sub-par teammates against a premade (Yes, I have had 10 matches recently where my teammates with between rank 1-10, and my opponents were rank 40-50). Suddenly, I have to do more for my team than I was prepared to. So I decide “I’ll switch to my best class/build”

And then I’m locked out of the game.

If you don’t want to include an option to switch/save builds. Then please enable toon switching again.

Some players, like myself, are highly specialized, and have builds for every possible situation that excel beyond his opponents. If you want to restrict everyone to singular builds, and less capability for adaptation and just lock everything in, the only builds you’ll see are the trusty meta generic ones. Which you already see, by the way.

Noince.7364:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

They’re perfectly fine.

First things first, I do not agree mesmers are “perfectly fine”. Every role the mesmer is supposed to fulfill, is simply outdone by others. Having no role to call his own in a team is far from “fine”. Something needs to be done, be it to mesmers or the other classes.

Assuming the tournament build of shatter:

Teamfight: Rangers/necros/engis bring more to a team fight than a mesmer with considerably less risk involved.
-Why bring a mesmer which exposes himself to so much danger in order to fulfill his role in teamfights when others are able to do more and also in a safer way.

Roaming: Thief/warrior have much better mobility and better 1v1 matchups in a tourney setting compared to mesmer which has 2 heavily disadvantaged matchups against the ranger/necro, both of which are almost always there.
-Why bring a mesmer, the lesser roamer which assists home points slower, assaults far point less reliably and needs help more often than not?

The only “advantage” of a mesmer is portal and moa, but the team with a mesmer is essentially running a 4.5 vs 5 just for these abilities. So are these abilities worth it for bringing half a player? I think teams and players have concluded no, which is why we do not see a single mesmer in PAX and the general exclusion of mesmers in teams.

In teamfights, Necromancers are at most risk, since they are generally focused first. Rangers do not provide nearly as much damage or utility as a Mesmer in teamfights. Engineers are either glassy AoE Condi spammers (Which Necromancers fulfill better), Heavy Static bursters (Which very few people bring or know how to use), or tanky bunkers. That’s it. Period.

If you think Thief, and Warrior have a better chance of 1v1ing a Ranger, you’re sorely mistaken. Mesmer is literally the best 1v1 class in the game. Overshadowing all other classes. Don’t lie.

Assists home points slower? Have you ever heard of Portal? Good god. Half a player?

I’m noticing a pattern that the Mesmer community on these forums exaggerate and lie about alot of things on their class. I main a Mesmer, it’s my primary class. I am also a master of the Necromancer. Mesmer is very viable, and very useful. More so than a Thief.

Darnis.4056:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Shatter. Basic Shatter build. 20/20/0/0/30

Anything else?

Yes, what utilities weaponset amulet, are you running, and what is your basic strategy most of the game?..

Berserker’s Ammy. Runes of Divinity. Staff (Sigil of Purity), Sword (Sigil of Air) Pistol (Sigil of Force). Ether Feast, Decoy, Portal/Blink, Null Field, Moa/Mass Invis. My primary strategy in group confrontations is to fight all targets at once. I’ll deploy clones for each opponent, and Daze/MindWrack AoE them during the fight, until I determine whom is more susceptible to a full shatter. I then shatter them, eliminating them from the fight, and generally leave my team to mop up, I place a portal, and then head to far point. In 1v1s, I’ll focus all of my attention on keeping up 25 vulnerability for full shatters. Some opponents cannot be beaten in this way, such as Spirit Rangers, as they’ll simply outheal my primary damage. So I pick my targets carefully. Terrormancers will always beat Shatter Mesmers, and always have. So you cannot expect to win some 1v1s, but that doesn’t mean Mesmer is unviable. They’re perfectly fine.

jportell.2197:

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

Hi, I’m a Mesmer. I can do everything you said we can’t.

Now what?

I’ve theory crafted builds like this before. The main problem is that it’s only good against glassy targets. It doesn’t have enough damage to deal with heftier opponents such as Spirit Rangers, or Elementalists.

Batresh.3958:

I came up with this armor combination for my male Human Necro. I’m not quite satisfied with the colors though (combination of Midnight fire/ice/yew in the pic). Any suggestions?

Also, if anyone knows any other good Human light armor combinations, feel free to share.

Iron, Sincerity, Brick/Midnight Ice are my tops.

Faction.4013:

Everybody seems to love the “Black & White”…

I went ahead and separated myself from the rest of the trendy “Black & White” Hipster crowd.

Sapphire, Iron, Sand, Tangerine, Lifesblood, Gray, Antique Gold, and Dust.

8 different colors.

So you call us hipsters, yet use Orrian. Then go on to choose the most nonnecromancer color scheme ever.

7/10

Lady-like a scary Necromancer does not make She looks alot more like a Witch.

Certainly an interesting combination though.

This is my Wellmancer Krystal. She’s more innocent than she looks.

SinerAthin.2374:

Hey guys.

I’m currently trying to make up my mind whether or not I should go with a Power or Condition focused PvP build, or a mix between the two.

What do I gain from going with Power, in contrary to Condition Damage?
And what do I gain from going with Condition Damage, in contrary to Power?

Or should a Necromancer both mix Power & Condition damage in PvP?

I am thinking about a build to use mostly in small group fights/solo and skirmishes, such as in unorganized sPvP and WvWvW, with an even focus on damage, survivability and mobility.

Power Necromancers (Unless you’re a Minionmancer) are good for one thing, and one thing only. Point assaulting. The strongest Powermancer builds all require heavy well-usage, which make them a pain in the kitten to use off-point.

Conditionmancers can do quite a bit, but unless you’re running a good build, you’re easily countered in a number of ways. Plus I feel it’s going to be nerfed again very soon.

Hybrids are very versatile fighters. Though it’s rare to find a good tPvP hybrid build, I posted a couple a while back in my Mighty Altroll’s Mighty Metas thread. 3 good hybrids, I believe. One was a wellmancer I dubbed Lictor due to the axe/scepter usage, and the others are my pestilence variations. Both are effective at roaming, and assaulting.

6/10

Doesn’t look very Necromancer-ish. Though, I like the color scheme.

I’m also going to cheat, since I have multiple Necro toons and post more screenshots later.

Volrath.1473:

The Boz.2038:

…no, I don’t think attacking a condition necro with a condition build is gonna work…
A somewhat sturdier power build with some CC? Yeah, that’ll wreck him for sure.

power builds are squishy and dye in 2 chain fears. You need a small group to take them down… If you watched the PAX you saw 4 ppl jumping necros from steath and the necros survive almost every time, 1 single person can’t take a necro down, unless he is afk off.

That’s false, the current Necro meta builds are 30/30/10/0/0 and 30/20/0/0/20 Rabid Ammy. Both are HIGHLY glassy, and easily killed by conditions, or focus fire. Granted, I have some builds that are incredibly hard to kill, those aren’t the ones you are fighting/complaining about.

Lordryux.9785:

anyone have any good builds for this wanna test it out a bit. but ive looked around the forums and couldnt find any up to date builds as of yet. im guessing not many people like to share but if u wouldnt mind linking me some would be appreciated

If you need Necromancer builds for tPvP, I’m your man. Send me a message ingame.

flow.6043:

I agree on most of what Altroll wrote. But…

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

weak in WvW outside of zerging

not true at all.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

no strong single target burst (Wells are a Necro’s strongest burst, and they are stationary, AoE, but still avoidable).

Also not true.
There are lots of ways to burst down single targets as a necro, not just power builds with wells. Laying down Well of Suffering will increase your burst damage regardless of the build, but that’s not all there’s to it.

One more thing:
In WvW the biggest difference besides the support role in a zerg is this: as an ele you can suvive longer (or indefinitely) against weaker players than yourself. The necro can’t, either you finish the fight early or you’ll be worn down eventually.
However, on equal skill necros are stronger than eles. In 1v1 encounters, even if the ele tries to counterbuild, the necro holds the stronger cards. Doesn’t matter if you play conditions or power… if both players are on a high skill lvl the necro will likely be the winner of a duel.

None of the Necromancer’s burst is strong single target, it’s strong AoE.

Name me one way Necromancer is superior to an Ele as a roamer in WvW.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Hello guys,
i decided to start today my next char and i’m really undecided between necromancer and elementalist. I know really few of them so i thought you could help me… and i post this here simply because ele’s forum isn’t really hospitable… I hope you are

So, can you make a lists of pros and cons of the actual gameplay for those you classes? (i’m mainly interested in WvW/HotM) Because every research on google led me on old posts (like 2012 of early 2013) but recently there were a lot of changes for both classes…

thank you

It all depends on your purpose. Elementalist has a much higher learning curve, but a shorter skill ceiling. So while it’s super hard to learn, you can only be so good at it.

• WD Sustain Viability
  Elementalist 8/10
  Necromancer 4/10

• WD Burst Viability
  Elementalist 10/10
  Necromancer 9/10

• Condition Viability
  Elementalist 1/10
  Necromancer 10/10

• Bunker Capability
  Elementalist 9/10
  Necromancer 9/10

• Mobility
  Elementalist 9/10
  Necromancer 2/10

• 1v1 Viability
  Elementalist 10/10
  Necromancer 10/10

• Support role viability
  Elementalist 8/10
  Necromancer 3/10

Pros and Cons********************************

• Necromancers
  Pros: Numerous viable builds, strongest condition presence in the game, strong white damage presence, strongest AoE in the game, strongest Elites in the game, very high skill ceiling, strong in tPvP, highly versatile
  Cons: Very prone to CC, very little mobility, high learning curve, weak in WvW outside of zerging, poor tanking capabilities outside of condition builds, no strong single target burst (Wells are a Necro’s strongest burst, and they are stationary, AoE, but still avoidable).

• Elementalist
  Pros: One of the highest single target bursts in the game, very high mobility, one of the best tanks in the game, excellent in WvW, strong AoE, good at supporting teammates
  Cons: Almost no build variation, some weapons/builds are unviable in tPvP, high learning curve, short skill ceiling, the only viable builds Ele has other classes can do better.

Mesmer is fine, Necro is overpowered.

Anything else?

Wellmancers are best used in PvP, not WvW. In WvW, smart enemies can easily escape your main source of damage with ease.

Regardless, in PvP, I tend to hit around 900-1.6k per pulse from Well of Suffering, 700-1k from corruption, which rockets up to nearly 2k-2.9k and 1k-1.9k in Lich. I tend to enjoy activating Locust Swarm, Well of Corruption, Deathshroud 5, Well of Suffering, Lich on a group of opponents fighting over a point or buff. It’s a hobby of mine. Almost as fun as trapping players in corners with Spectral wall, and waving at them as they die.

I still don’t see why you hated Shatter Mesmer.

Spirit Rangers, the kittened half cousin of the Minionmancer. The thing everyone thinks is more effective, for whatever reason.

Hakkology.3189:

Hello dear spvpers.

There is a certain matter that i noticed in the last couple of days i would like to discuss.
Is it me or TTK (time to kill) is drastically reduced ?

I’m not a very experienced spvp player, but i always enjoyed a couple of fun games, to do the dailies and such.

Back when i started this game, i used to duel with other players on my necro for about 20 seconds or so on 1v1. We used to throw skills at each other, try to survive and see what happens.

Now its all a damagefest. Most of the time i don’t even survive 6 seconds. It’s more noticable on my rabid engineer, necromancer has access to deathshroud but engineer is like a pancake. Just warriors and thieves rushing on your face, smashing buttons, smashing and stunning your face, necros spamming conditions and watching you fall, killing you in 5-6 seconds.

Maybe i forgot how to pvp, i don’t know. Imo ,such high amount of fast damage doesn’t really allow players to actually play the game or use the element of “skill” to cope well with other classes.

I think this is what people call, power creep ?

I hope i could make my point.
All the best.

You need to be a bit more specific. Taking glass cannons against glass cannons generally results in a match lasting 5 seconds. Taking tanks against tanks lasts around 60 seconds, bunker against bunker 2 centuries. Bunker against Glass Cannon, around 40-60 seconds, Bunker against tank, 4-5 minutes or 2 centuries, tank against glass cannon, 20-30 seconds.

It all varies.

You could use some improvement. Mostly in your rotation, and positioning.