Guild Wars 2

Mammoth.1975:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Mammoth.1975:

BTW, if you’re new to necro, take a good look at this, because it’s much more effective than any of the builds in the first post. I really don’t want to be too critical because I appreciate people putting effort into helping out the community, and I appreciate theorists who try off the wall stuff even more, but this kind of misinformation isn’t helping anyone.

Don’t insult me, please, or if you are going to insult me, do it right and pull something better out. This is simply petty.

Little sensitive are we? I put it as tactfully as I could, and in fact I don’t see what’s so insulting about my post.

There’s nothing wrong with playing an alternative to 30/30/10, and in fact I did so pretty successfully when 30/30/10 was meta last year. There’s a problem with playing bad builds. Which is not to say that all the builds posted are bad. The ones that are ok look less effective on paper than 30/30/10, and you’d need some pretty solid evidence to change anyones mind about that. Anyone with a tiny bit of experience anyway.

If you really want to know what I think, it’s that you shouldn’t be posting builds when everything you post shows that you very clearly have zero experience in competitive tpvp, and no idea about the math behind maximising a builds potential. Get one or the other, and preferably both, before you start trying to ‘help’, because right now you’re not.

Clearer?

How about you learn to use them yourself for further evidence, because at the moment, you’re talking without knowledge yourself. I have tested these in competitive tPvP, and used them against extremely good players. They work. Now I’m done justifying myself to you, if you continue to lack anything productive, then I will continue to ignore it.

flow.6043:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Anything below 2,000 toughness on a toughness build is glass, if you didn’t know.

I sure didn’t know that. This basically means that in sPvP you either need to go with a Shaman’s amulet or go 30 in Death Magic and have a rune set with toughness as main attribute to barely make the 2k mark.
So, according to that statement almost every necro build is glassy.

Toughness alone won’t make you tanky. It’s generally the utilities/traits that makes one tanky.

Xom.9264:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Xom.9264:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Do you think me so bad that I couldn’t have thought of a 30/30/10 Rabid build when they announced Dhuumfire?

Well its a build with a higher skill cap however it a performer if you can play the class.

For beginners it might not be the best choice.

No it isn’t. It’s a typical glass cannon build, I’ve already addressed Dhuumfire as being extremely useful for hybrid builds, and I have made successful ones for it.

Glass cannon? You care to play the numbers game with me?

Gear is rabid thats a given. So lets start with 0.30.20.0.20 typical build. Runes of choice I tend to go nightmare toughness is a solid 1760 with condi damage of 1406 and condi duration of +10%.

Now the 30.30.10.0.0 say I go with nightmare toughness drops to 1660, but I dont use nightmare for this build because you already have a 30% condi duration build in, Runes of undead so 1710 toughness with 1492 condi damage. You get burning and still have terror along with 30% condition duration. I still run Spectral wall and walk sometimes with corrupt boon sometimes with spectral armor.

Really dont understand where you are getting this glass cannon opinion from….

Anyway Im sure you will have a response, you dont like the build for whatever reason. I did not like it before the patch, now I like it….burning is useful.

Anything below 2,000 toughness on a toughness build is glass, if you didn’t know. Unless you substitute the mitigation for healing mitigation, which Necromancer cannot do without protection. Besides, I find Terror to be far better than burn in the right usage anyway. You’re sacrificing reaper’s protection, and other possible nice things such as LF gen or high HP to go full damage. It’s a brainless build, and I dislike it intently. It doesn’t work as well as people think, either. Just because you can burn a single target doesn’t make it great for tPvP.

I’ll say it right now, 30/30/10/0/0 conditionmancers are orientated more to 1v1.

Bennet.2954:

I am rather confused.
Even if the 30/30/10 build is generic and whatever other adjectives you want to throw at it it is STILL a really viable build. If the Op wants to help people as he does, why not list it then?

Also the necro may or may not be OP now but it certainly was not viable pre patch. A skilled player could sort of make it work but it was limited in what it could be achieved with the class.

It’s not a matter of debate – the fact that it was the general consensus (both in high and low level play) is a reliable indicator that it was indeed sub par.

In regards to the builds, some of them are quite effective. I used to run a 0/20/10/10/30 build pre patch which is quite similar to OP’s 0/30/20/0/20 build in scope and purpose.
However I do not think it’s overpowered now nor do I think it was prepatch.

Honestly I would stay away from classifications such as UP/OP in a thread where the OP states he wants to help people out – it’s just going to get the thread derailed.

The effort though to write all this up and presumably test all these builds is much appreciated so thanks OP for your time.

I disagree with almost every point you made, but atleast you have the kitten ed courtesy to be nice about it. Good post.

Sweet, we’ve got two very fine teachers. Any more teachers or students want to apply?

infantrydiv.1620:

In its current state I’d guess a well played full necro team could absolutely steam roll just about any other team comp lol

Been there, done that. The teachers of my Necro school and I got together, played around 14 matches, didn’t lose a single one.

Xom.9264:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Do you think me so bad that I couldn’t have thought of a 30/30/10 Rabid build when they announced Dhuumfire?

Well its a build with a higher skill cap however it a performer if you can play the class.

For beginners it might not be the best choice.

No it isn’t. It’s a typical glass cannon build, I’ve already addressed Dhuumfire as being extremely useful for hybrid builds, and I have made successful ones for it.

Powermancer is virtually unchanged. Cooldowns were reduced, and I suppose they could use Dhuumfire now if they wanted to be flashy. Also, I will never understand why they believe running a staff on a power build is a good idea.

Mammoth.1975:

spoj.9672:

Mammoth.1975:

Encanis.4031:

Infect.2738:

This. Not to take away from your thread but my 30/30/10 build became meta in the high tier scene. and will probably put out the most pressure possible IF played right. I will say good job for offering up a list of builds people can try though.

Well, maybe stupid question, but what exactly is this super 30/30/10 build? I always have trouble if people only quote these numbers without further explanation on gear/traitchoice/playstyle (of course, obvious to them, but not for the readers)… some links would be great

You raise an interesting question. I’m curious what others are using on their new versions of 30/30/10. I can’t decide between 2 lyssa/4 nightmare, 6 nightmare, and 6 undead. Tier 1 spite feels like a wasted slot too.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjMah7dbub87JEpCPD0jdBXAxoHHTwoMA-TsAAzCpI+S9l7LzXyvsfN8Y5xGBA

Cheers Spoj. Have you tried higher bleed duration but preferred this?

BTW, if you’re new to necro, take a good look at this, because it’s much more effective than any of the builds in the first post. I really don’t want to be too critical because I appreciate people putting effort into helping out the community, and I appreciate theorists who try off the wall stuff even more, but this kind of misinformation isn’t helping anyone.

Neither is your form of misinformation. I tried that build, and it’s worthless. 5 seconds of being focused to death isn’t worth the amount of damage you get from burning. 30/30/10/0/0 is a nonsense build. Just like putting all of your eggs in a single basket. You’re literally offputting every single build I’ve listed there for a crappy generic build that’s focused on a brainless trait line up that a 3 year old could have attempted. Do you think me so bad that I couldn’t have thought of a 30/30/10 Rabid build when they announced Dhuumfire?

I’m quite tired of crap from people such as yourself, it grows old. The least you could do is have the decency to actually try some of the builds before throwing them out the window. When I state something, I have a reason to.

Report me for this post if you like, but I’m bloody irritated by people coming into my thread that I created to aid people, only to harass/criticize a LIST of builds they either did not try, or lack the skill to use effectively. Only to CRITICIZE me for not putting up a brainless 30/30/10 build that you blindly worship because it brings up big numbers.

It’s like people such as yourself gain all of their information from 1v1s, rather than actual team play. It’s people like yourself that whined about Necro being UP prepatch because you failed to use it effectively. People such as yourself whom thought Necro couldn’t do anything except spam marks to no avail. Necro was good prepatch, overpowered now, and you’re limiting yourselves again with a crappy build, just like last time.

Anyone with half a spec of Necro knowledge after seeing the leaked patch notes would immediately think of 30/30/10. That doesn’t make it good. Don’t insult me, please, or if you are going to insult me, do it right and pull something better out. This is simply petty.

Morvian.3270:

So you would be thinking something like this then?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjQal6taOb07JApHPD90TK+e8IFHHMA-TsAg2CrIaS1krJTTymsNN8YtweBA

Yes. Well done, I like the way your mind works by the way. You have the makings of a great theory crafter.

Death Nova, for 3rd DM trait. I’m still thinking and trying to remember my old theory craft version. Not sure why that one is messed up.

Morvian.3270:

I’m interested in the Minion Lord build, but have a few questions relating to the trait choices.

I was wondering why you selected Vampiric Precision without having a high crit chance primarily. But I was also curious why you’d pick Vampiric Master with only the Flesh Golem and Shadow Fiend would be regularly alive. To my novice eyes, it seems better to take Mark of Evasion, Ritual Master, and Fetid Consumption. Then you could use Well of Blood for the heal and take advantage of the healing power from Shaman’s amulet with higher regen uptime and the AoE heals from Well of Blood. My final thought is to change Chilling Darkness to Weakening Shroud. That would allow higher bleed stacking and doesn’t appear to be a big sacrifice. In that case would you suggest using Bone Fiend instead of Shadow Fiend?

To be clear, I’m a pretty low ranked player just getting my feet wet in pvp. But these are just my first thoughts on looking at the build and I was wondering if you could provide some clarification.

Thank you, I didn’t notice that before. The build is wonky, and I failed to notice that the build I posted is different than the one I theory crafted ages ago. You’ll want 0/20/30/20/0, and all of the changes you mentioned above are correct, however the idea behind the build is so that your minions survive long periods of time, that you can siphon conditions from them using Plague Signet, and then transfer them for a burst.

jportell.2197:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

You cannot kill a good Terror-based Necromancer on any class except a PU stealth condition Mesmer (As I have tested weaknesses numerous times in my Necro school)

Your best bet, however, is to pack numerous stunbreaks, and work with Melandru runes to cut the fear duration by 50% done to you. Pick ranged weapons. Here are some weaponsets that did somewhat well against our Necromancers in the test:

P/P (Had S/D as secondary) Acrobatics/Stealth burst Thief (0/30/20/20/0)

D/D Torment/Caltrop Acrobatics Thief (0/0/10/30/30)

Rifle burst signet Warrior (0/20/30/10/10)

Axe/Shield Longbow burst Warrior (0/10/30/10/20)

Prismatic Understanding Condition Mesmer (??? We never found out his build, but it wasn’t tPvP viable due to constant stealthing/mobility. However he did the best of all the builds in the trial with a 100% win percentage)

Phantasmal – Shatter hybrid Mesmer (20/20/0/30/0)

Rifle sustain Engineer (Must have automated response, can still lose to Flesh Golem)

Staff sustain Elementalist (Did not get his build, but it worked effectively, though still lost 60% of the time)

People finally figuring out how good PU is? Psh. This build was good before the patch now it is even better…. (Bunker mesmers gonna be taking over)

I wouldn’t consider it an efficient bunker considering all the stealth/necessary mobility. However it’s very good at 1v1-4s in open terrain with no objective.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

No offense, but that is nonsense. In one on one scenarios the terror necros are good, but they can be beaten. They are much more potent in team fight scenarios though, which is what makes them kind of unique in the sense that the mamoths of 1v1 have usually sucked at team fights up to this point.

A Necromancer efficient with my Tormentor build took part in my test, he dueled numerous opponents and only lost to the Mesmer running a very unique Prismatic Understanding condition build. Now the problem with that, is that his PU Cond build is not viable for tournament, since it relies entirely on stealth/mobility.

He defeated Beastmaster Rangers, Warriors, Engineers, Thieves, Shatter/Phantasmal Mesmers, Minionmancer Necros, Condition Cleansing Elementalists, and many other 1v1 builds.

So keeping that in mind, I firmly believe the only way to consistently beat a good Terrormancer is to play a Necro better than he does.

Tego.3129:

I am so anti religion. Well I am anti ignorance. I’ll leave it at that. So..
I’m not overly thrilled about High Priest being most similar to the build I hashed out from scratch for myself last night.

I think the only difference is you chose Thief, and Axe/Focus and D/WH over my personally favored use of Staff, Axe/WH set up.

So kitten close to being the exact one makes me wonder if you seem me describing it in the Mists map chat… —_-- haah. gg.

Well, I’m actually pleased there was someone whom was theory crafting on a similar track as I. I don’t really see many people that go for anything but brainless 30/30/10/0/0 or 30/20/0/0/20 builds.

I’d like to personally invite you to my Necromancer school to see if you can become a teacher, if you do not mind.

Zayle.7253:

I’ve been getting pretty frustrated in WvW trying to kill those blind/stealth spamming thieves that can tag team and vanish forever. Pinning down just one is difficult enough, but if they stealth after you immobilize them they can just cleanse it all and come out at full health. I usually run with a longbow and bolas but that isn’t enough to make them stay put. Dashing at them in melee rewards me with a blind every time they stealth.

Is there any way a Warrior can actively counter this? Fighting a Thief using that build is a nightmare. They can backstab or throw some conditions on you and just vanish to heal fully while you flail around like an idiot trying to hit them.

Want to beat Thieves? Go tPvP. In WvW, no class except Mesmer can kill Thieves without the Thief simply being bad.

Burn.5401:

Another self-proclaimed guru. After reading your statements on Spectral Walk being a bad skill, staff not being a good choice and glasscanon thieves being bad in spvp I’ve pretty much had enough.

As I said, I misspoke, Spectral Walk is not necessarily bad, it’s a selfish skill, and is merely a stunbreaker, not really effective damage mitigation. Well of Darkness is AoE damage mitigation, and can aid an entire team.

Staff is not a good choice for Bursters. It simply is bad for that purpose.

Thieves are bad in tPvP.

Mesmer/Engineer School

[Ill]

I created a Necro guild not too long ago for teaching Necromancers that actually became quite effective ingame, I have helped/aided over 45+ new Necros. What I need, is for good Mesmers/Engineers willing to teach (Or bad ones willing to learn) to step up, and join the guild (there is no need to represent). If you wish to give your expertise back to the community, to help players learn a class and get better at PvP/PvE/WvW, please use this application and either PM it to me, post it here, or simply whisper me ingame:

• In game name:
• What class do you main/wish to learn:
• What class(es) do you play as your secondary/tertiary:
• Are you applying as a teacher, or a student:
  (If you are applying for a teaching position, please answer the following questions. Student position applicants may ignore these)
• How many hours on your class do you have:
• How many builds have you theory crafted:
• Would you consider yourself a good contributor to your community:
• Are you friendly/helpful:
• Would you be willing to prove your skill/knowledge ingame:

I hope to grow this idea to further benefit the community, and I appreciate any help/feedback.

I will not run this guild forever, and once the guild takes off, I will elect the best teacher of both classes to run it standalone, so that I might manage other schools

Mesmer/Engineer School

[Ill]

I created a Necro guild not too long ago for teaching Necromancers that actually became quite effective ingame, I have helped/aided over 45+ new Necros. What I need, is for good Mesmers/Engineers willing to teach (Or bad ones willing to learn) to step up, and join the guild (there is no need to represent). If you wish to give your expertise back to the community, to help players learn a class and get better at PvP/PvE/WvW, please use this application and either PM it to me, post it here, or simply whisper me ingame:

• In game name:
• What class do you main/wish to learn:
• What class(es) do you play as your secondary/tertiary:
• Are you applying as a teacher, or a student:
  (If you are applying for a teaching position, please answer the following questions. Student position applicants may ignore these)
• How many hours on your class do you have:
• How many builds have you theory crafted:
• Would you consider yourself a good contributor to your community:
• Are you friendly/helpful:
• Would you be willing to prove your skill/knowledge ingame:

I hope to grow this idea to further benefit the community, and I appreciate any help/feedback.

I will not run this guild forever, and once the guild takes off, I will elect the best teacher of both classes to run it standalone, so that I might manage other schools

Blake.2973:

Fellow necro aren’t happy killin’ stuff ? I’m more than ok with our damage now, in wvw, but we aren’t op. Try to play a condition spec engi, and you’ll see what op means….

How to balance necro ? Remove the cooldown on dhuumfire, as 100% to burn for 4 seconds on crit. That would be faire for a grand master trait !

You are so incredibly wrong it hurts me to contemplate how wrong you are.

It’s an interesting variation to my high priest, but I can’t say it’s more effective. Just focuses different. Staff is probably a better idea for the Putrid Mark AoE.

You cannot kill a good Terror-based Necromancer on any class except a PU stealth condition Mesmer (As I have tested weaknesses numerous times in my Necro school)

Your best bet, however, is to pack numerous stunbreaks, and work with Melandru runes to cut the fear duration by 50% done to you. Pick ranged weapons. Here are some weaponsets that did somewhat well against our Necromancers in the test:

P/P (Had S/D as secondary) Acrobatics/Stealth burst Thief (0/30/20/20/0)

D/D Torment/Caltrop Acrobatics Thief (0/0/10/30/30)

Rifle burst signet Warrior (0/20/30/10/10)

Axe/Shield Longbow burst Warrior (0/10/30/10/20)

Prismatic Understanding Condition Mesmer (??? We never found out his build, but it wasn’t tPvP viable due to constant stealthing/mobility. However he did the best of all the builds in the trial with a 100% win percentage)

Phantasmal – Shatter hybrid Mesmer (20/20/0/30/0)

Rifle sustain Engineer (Must have automated response, can still lose to Flesh Golem)

Staff sustain Elementalist (Did not get his build, but it worked effectively, though still lost 60% of the time)

NapoleonMP.7964:

Thanks for this post Altroll. I’m a engie coming into necro lands after getting ate up in zerg battles in wvw by yall. I believe its by wells, but I’m not 100% on that by any means. Is staff more a condition weapon? The range concerns me on the Wellomancer is all. I don’t really care if i run a power build or condition build but prefer to be on the outside of battle not in the middle. ( I get tunnel vision and in the middle of a enemy zerg that leaves me dead.) What is your suggestion for a zerg necro. Thanks ahead of time for any responses.

In a WvW situation, Wellmancers are not very strong, even in zergs. Wellmancer builds work extremely effectively in tPvP due to the fact that opponents have to stand on points to capture them, but, obviously in WvW, opponents have alot more room to navigate your killing fields. If you want to be on the outside looking in, I’d recommend a variation of Tormentor:

20/20/10/0/20

Make sure to keep Terror, and Master of terror from the original build and instead of “Weakening Shroud” since you’ll be from a distance, I’d recommend you take something else. I’d also recommend you take Spectral Walk instead of Well of Darkness.

Rym.1469:

Passive aggressive insults.

Firstly, Staff is terribad on Berserker builds since all it can really do is CC, condition cleanse, and Putrid mark. If you switch to staff, your damage goes completely down, also Axe/Focus is superior since you can use it against downed opponents to recharge life force, stack double bloodlust, and strip boons. It’s simply ignorance to think Staff can be useful in tPvP as a Berserker.

Secondly, I mispoke, Spectral Walk is good. However it’s a very selfish good. I prefer WoD because it’s an immense aid for team, and yourself, cutting damage done to you in half. You can either go for Spectral Walk and have a double stun breaker, or go for Well of Darkness to have insane damage mitigation for your team.

Thirdly, Life force regeneration isn’t necessary to focus on my builds, since the proper playstyle will involve you sitting in Deathshroud for no more than 1 second at a time.

Ara.4569:

I have a question about Tormentor rune choice: why not giving up 100 condition damage for +20% duration on every condition, not just fear ? Sounds juicy.

for 100% extra duration on fears, when we already have 50% from master of terror, 20% from runes and a 1.15 multiplier from sigil, we just need at least 5 points in spite for guaranteed extra tick. So maybe instead of 0/30/20/0/20 it could be interesting to go 10/30/10/0/20 ? Especially when we can’t control that reaper’s protection fear, and it can easily waste a 90 sec CD (Im torn because 4 sec fear in crazy good). Or maybe 5/25/20/0/20 or 10/20/20/0/20…

I have said before, in tPvP the only thing worth speccing in duration for happens to be CCs. That’s it. I would much prefer the 20% boost to Fear and 100 condition damage to the 20% to all other conditions, since my main damage comes from Fear and I want it to do as much as possible.

I have used that before, I prefer Reaper’s Protection for the extra survivability/AoE bursting. Besides, I don’t really need that super extra fear duration, since my 85% really stacks up when I use my strategy, and if I get stunned during my burst, RP comes out and finishes the job.

I thank you for the comment, and I’m glad you’re thinking this way, however I have tried most of that before in my theory crafting.

poptartbrger.1349:

What gear would you reccomend for a WvW variant of the Potentate build?

I wouldn’t recommend Potentate in WvW, it’s incredibly strong prepatch and postpatch in tPvP, but not so much in WvW. However, if you really want to use it there, go full Berserker.

Greenfish.1270:

Well of Darkness does not chill unless you trait it and in your tormentor build you do not have it traited, as for spectral armor a reduction of a 30 seconds on its cool down for a stun break, protection, and life force on damage is great I do not see how its bad.

Spectral Armor still does not grant stability, and if you’re going to use it for Mitigation, Well of Darkness is superior. Any person standing inside your well of darkness has his damage output reduced enormously for 5 seconds, and it’s an AoE. That’s incredible support to your team. Spectral Armor is decent, Spectral Walk is better, but they’re all selfish things, and still not as good as WoD. If you’re going to be doing alot of 1v1s though, I’d suggest Spectral Walk for the double stunbreak.

Sounds good man.

Pestilence II (Condition/Power hybrid) (Tankier variation of the first)
30/20/0/20/0
IV, X, XI(or XII), IV, IX, I, VIII
6 Runes of the Thief
Carrion Amulet (Berserker’s Jewel)
Scepter (Sigil of Air) Dagger (Sigil of Geomancy)
Dagger (Sigil of Air) Warhorn (Sigil of Geomancy)
Consume Conditions, Well of Suffering, Plague Signet, Signet of Spite, Lich form/Plague Form/Flesh Golem

New build added to “Roaming/Bursting” list. Variation of my hybrid.

Mammoth.1975:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Mammoth.1975:

Jabberwock.9014:

Yobculture.5786:

At least Necros aren’t going to be killed last anymore.

We’ll get the honours of being killed first.

Which is horrible balance… being forced to kill a tank first is just bad. Glass cannon nukers are supposed to be top priority to kill in any game, but condition necros put out so much pressure even with tank stats that they need to be dealt with immediately.

A tank necro doesn’t have dhuumfire.

Man this is awkward. I think the buffs were too much, but everyone who else who does seems to be a kittening idiot.

You do realize that you don’t have to spec for Curses to be effective at conditions anymore, right? 30/10/20/10/0, Rabid Amulet, Undead Runes, and defensive utilities. The burn does most of the work, you don’t need terror with our already massive access to other conditions. You can simply play a more effective Engineer.

Yeah, that looks pretty tanky. Against bunkers. Plus, dhuumfire on that build is worth about 275 dps, so I sure hope it’s not doing most of the work, because a real tank necro outheals that with staff 2.

Let’s keep the build discussion to your build thread.

275 DPS?… I don’t even know how to get a burn to do that little damage on a pure power build.

Way to lie and show your lack of knowledge of Necro.

Mammoth.1975:

Jabberwock.9014:

Yobculture.5786:

At least Necros aren’t going to be killed last anymore.

We’ll get the honours of being killed first.

Which is horrible balance… being forced to kill a tank first is just bad. Glass cannon nukers are supposed to be top priority to kill in any game, but condition necros put out so much pressure even with tank stats that they need to be dealt with immediately.

A tank necro doesn’t have dhuumfire.

Man this is awkward. I think the buffs were too much, but everyone who else who does seems to be a kittening idiot.

You do realize that you don’t have to spec for Curses to be effective at conditions anymore, right? 30/10/20/10/0, Rabid Amulet, Undead Runes, and defensive utilities. The burn does most of the work, you don’t need terror with our already massive access to other conditions. You can simply play a more effective Engineer.

TheMightyAltroll

Pestilence (Versatile Condition/Power hybrid) (Very effective post-patch)
30/30/0/0/10
IV, X, XI(or XII), IV, IX, X, IV
6 Runes of the Thief
Carrion Amulet
Scepter (Sigil of Air) Dagger (Sigil of Agony)
Dagger (Sigil of Air) Warhorn (Sigil of Accuracy)
Consume Conditions, Spectral Grasp/Well of Corruption, Spectral Walk/Corrupt Boon/Spectral Wall, Signet of Spite, Lich/Plague form/Flesh Golem

Potentate (Wellmancer) (Most effective burster available)
30/20/0/20/0
I, X, XII, III, VIII, I, VIII
6 Runes of Divinity
Berserker’s Amulet
Dagger (Sigil of Air) Warhorn (Sigil of Air)
Axe (Sigil of Bloodlust) Focus (Sigil of Bloodlust)
Consume Conditions, Well of Suffering, Well of Corruption, Well of Darkness, Lich Form – * Potentate was originally theory crafted by Nihlatek Remortis, and improved/modified by Altroll

Those are tPvP builds but could be adapted for PvE. However, honestly the most effective builds for Dungeons/PvE roaming are Vampirism wellmancers. To be honest, there are three ways for a Necro to tank, Vampirism, CC-based Toughness, or Minionmaster.

Minionmaster sucks in PvE, so that brings it down to two choices, and for sheer usefulness in dungeons, Vampires have it in spades. I wouldn’t use many Vampire builds in tPvP though.

Xom.9264:

lol holy ego batman

Anyway Ascii is correct 30/30/10 is solid, all the good condition build just got a little better the builds did not change a ton other then a few power builds. 0/30/20/0/20 , 0/30/10/0/30, 30/30/10/0/0, etc are all still where its at for conditions for the most part.

“The Tormentor (Terrormancer Variation of “Death” (Overpowered post patch))
0/30/20/0/20
IV, X, IX, II, VIII, IV, IX
6 Runes of the Necromancer
Carrion Amulet (Rabid Jewel)
Staff (Sigil of Parylization)
Scepter (Sigil of Parylization) Dagger (Sigil of Geomancy)
Consume Conditions, Spectral Wall, Plague Signet, Well of Darkness, Flesh Golem”

That is my flagship condition build post-patch, and when used correctly it’s rather overpowered. You can also go 30/20/0/0/20 if you’re alright with aiming using Marks for massive terror duration/burn.

CharlieBear.2741:

In PvP duels this class is terrible. I’ve tried every build I can think of and they’re all absolutely terrible. All a class has to do to win is kite or stun. And every class can do this.
We have almost no stun breakers and almost no mobility skills compared to other classes. It makes it almost impossible to duel someone. ANet fix this because this has really kitten ed me off.

Edit: Another thing that came to attention is the lack of life force in PvP, why don’t we spawn with any, it would actually make DS builds in PvP viable.

Try my Tormentor or Potentate build. Both are very good in 1v1s, and both are exceedingly effective in tournament play as well.

KarlaGrey.5903:

This looks more like a perfect case scenario then something that occurs frequently though. If they’re constantly moving (and most good players will be, too), they could easily be at a spot that makes them hard(er) to fear into the wall.
Placing the wall right ontop of them, or yourself (when engaging in melee range) seems a more reliable method to get at least the first wall fear in.

It’s not easy to do, but I have done it more often than not. Firstly, you have to land a chill, and then a fear. After that, it’s simply guiding them back in/out. If you’re fast enough, you can place the wall IMMEDIATELY behind them when you fear them, so they run into it. Then you can Dark Path to them, Doom them, Roll forward, and send them through it again. It’s quite doable, and very overpowered. However, there is no way for you to really be in a “Spectral Wall safe zone”. If you hide in a corner, you get corner trapped, hide in plain sight, and I can still use it on you.

Lumop.4702:

Hey Almighty Troll! I’m looking for a dungeon/pve build. Don’t want minions, and dont want to go full out conditionmancer, leaning more towards a burst. What would you reccomend?

Well Minions are ineffective in Dungeons/PvE, I’d personally recommend going Well based power Vampire. 30/0/10/30/0 with 60/40 split with Knight’s and Berserker’s gear/trinkets and siphoning wells will get you far in non-PvP gametypes. Make sure to get some Omnomberry food too.

Ascii.9726:

Not to be negative, but i really don’t see how any of these can be considered “meta” or even “Overpowered”. 30/30/10 would out-preform every build here from a PvP point of view.

Ascii, from a PvP point of view, no, they wouldn’t. Yes, they might do more damage, but are generally worthless from a practical standpoint, since you’ll get focused in mere seconds. Survivability and Burst are good balanced. Why do Thieves whom go full GC Backstab suck at PvP? Because they’re too glassy and worthless.

Ostricheggs.3742:

How about this for all you people asking why necros are broken.

The new patch gave a very wide variety of buffs to the necro.

These include:

Burning at the same level as a standard bomb/nade condi engi.
A reason to go up spite to actually get condition duration
A reason to drop the roll of team-fight support and pick up the role formerly occupied by the condi engi (just kitten kitten up)
Torment with an immob on a pretty short cooldown
Increased defensive capabilities with absurd buffs to gains on deathshroud

That said, the reason why necros are overpowered right now is simply because both burning and torment combined with the utterly massive number of junk condis, bleeds and CC, both hard and soft, in addition to their already powerful defensive mechanisms when using spectral skills. All of this is with what necros already had. The buffs just simply made necros over the top.

Furthermore their access to weakness is the most consistent in the game without having to sacrifice anything.

That isn’t even to mention epidemic, their condi transfers and how easy they are to play. Necros are a face-roll in a good player’s hands post-patch with the insane amount of death shroud gain they have."

So yes, necros are the most powerful condition class EVER at the moment. Not even was HGH with incendiary powder giving perma-burns this strong.

Necros are insane, anyone who argues otherwise has never played an engi

I agree with you completely, I stated long before the patch when the leaked notes came through “If even half of this stuff is true I’m going to have to start asking for Necro to be nerfed. I really don’t want to though, so hopefully we get more reasonable fixes.”

TooBz.3065:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Penguin.5197:

More removal? There has already been a boat load of it since forever. Sure I can shoot bleed/poison/burning etc on you but after you remove it Its not like I can instantly reapply it all again, we have cooldowns too you know.

And to op, conditions havent changed for engie, why complain about them now? Seems to me people aren’t used to having necros be competitive.

Necromancers were viable, now they are OP.

I don’t think that’s true. Everything I’ve seen suggests that Necro’s were only viable if you build a whole team around them. Which too me is not really viable.

Everything you’ve seen simply suggests, and you haven’t seen me, or my builds apparently. Take it from me, a guy who mains Necro before any other class. Necromancers were highly viable prepatch, and were superior in PvP to many other classes.

Caffynated.5713:

If any glass canon catches you without stun breakers, you’re dead. If a glass thief nails you with basilisk venom he could auto attack you to death before it ends. A 30 30 0 10 0 ele can EQ -> LF -> fire attunement -> ring of fire -> 1 tick of drakes breath -> arcane wave -> firegrab -> air attunement -> ride the lightning, all in a span of 2 seconds for nearly 30k damage. A shatter mesmer can kill you in 1 second or less. Stun break or die.

Why should a glass cannon necro be any different?

A) Those things you listed only work on other GCs. I waste bunkers in seconds on my Necro.

B) Necromancer is not glass cannon, any competent Necro will either pack some traits, or a utility to avoid being glass cannon.

C) Also, those skills you listed have incredibly long cooldowns, or take more setup, a Terrormancer when set up properly can do them much faster, and win a fight based on attrition. Though still incredibly quickly.

I played my Tormentor build today in Solo join tourneys, there was only one player that lasted longer than 18 seconds against me. It was an Engineer with the automated response trait. He still died 6 seconds later from my Flesh Golem.

Tobbygnome.6793:

I’ve been playing conditions in sPvP all day since the patch, the more i play the more i see people getting better at dealing with us already.

Zerkers are really easy to pick off, some even die before i leave DS after a combo, but people with proper gear are very fun to verse now.

There are still ignorant people though who think they can still ignore Necros damage and let themselves bleed a ton before doing something about it.

My advice to anyone with extremely strong opinions towards one side of this Necro discussion, is to play the other classes first. Back when i was having trouble with Mesmer, i made one and was blown away by some of their damage potential.

If you consider yourself a good player, which most of you probably do, then you can pick up the other classes easily within a couple hours, and you will have a better perspective of where Necros stand in terms of balance.

I play every class in the entire game. Necromancer is currently the best class in the game. No other class can match it’s output, while still taking as much input as it can. It’s to the point to where I can’t play any of my Warriors in tPvP, or even my Ranger. I had enormous condition cleanses on my Mesmer and I will still get dominated by a Terrormancer. I’m FORCED to play one of my Necromancers just to compete.

My best build prepatch was my Potentate, I thought that build was borderline OP by the way I could dispatch people. This? It feels like I’m cheating.

Necromancer has always been my best class, but this is just awful. I wanted BUG FIXES not buffs.

emon.1863:

1."What if " is bad argument.
2.How often do you fight alone in tpvp ?
3.Necro is not immortal
4.Necro cant escape
5.Team should support each other
6.Necro can be CC’d as well

1. No it isn’t, especially when my conditions are on a shorter cooldown than their stunbreakers.

2. Quite often

3. And? Neither is Beastmaster Ranger. However we still have the strongest condition output in the entire game now.

4. So what? Warriors can’t escape effectively either, and are certainly in a much worse position than we are now. Besides this is tPvP, where if you ‘escape’ you lose a point.

5. I won 6 tournaments today running an all Necro team, we didn’t come close to losing a single time, and even fought 2 premades.

6. So bloody what? I don’t know if you realize this, but we have stunbreakers too, and we can use our Class mechanic while stunned to interrupt WHILE doing damage, and now, our interrupt lasts longer, does more damage, and allows us to chain more damage even after being stunned. Plus Reaper’s Protection at that. Not to mention opposing CC doesn’t matter much when they’re dying from burn, bleed, poison, torment, and terror all at once.

Necromancer potential wasn’t realized prepatch because of ignorance. Now everyone is facerolling it and people still think it’s UP. I have never been more disgusted by my own class before.

Penguin.5197:

More removal? There has already been a boat load of it since forever. Sure I can shoot bleed/poison/burning etc on you but after you remove it Its not like I can instantly reapply it all again, we have cooldowns too you know.

And to op, conditions havent changed for engie, why complain about them now? Seems to me people aren’t used to having necros be competitive.

Necromancers were viable, now they are OP.

If your opponent is out of stunbreakers, they are simply dead now. Which is blatantly overpowered for Necro. It’s to the point to where I can’t beat Necromancers on anything but my Necromancer anymore, even my beastmaster Regen Ranger will lose to a terrormancer.

This is not a l2p issue, I have played Necromancer for a long time, this is simply overpowered.

STOP CRYING!

Necro is overpowered as is, and you’re whining about something no one even takes anymore because of the nonsensical fear buffs. It’s people like this that make me hate playing my bloody Necromancer.

Symbolic.7910:

‘Hi, i’m TheMightyAltroll, i criticize players who dedicate hours of their time to find the most optimal builds for teamplay, I don’t take into account that these players test viability of several builds because i’m always right.’

Hi, I’m TheMightyAltroll. I’m a player who dedicates hours of time to find the most optimal builds for teamplay, and I test the viability of numerous builds, even builds that aren’t my own to compare them to builds I’ve made. I learn from other people’s build and precision craft. Oh, and I’m always right.

Pleased to meet you.

emon.1863:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Login.5102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Login.5102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Terok.7315:

carlos the dwarf.1038:

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

Necromancers were good before patch, they simply took far more skill. The biggest mistake you could make on trying to run a prepatch Necro was thinking they were good at conditions, prepatch Necromancers were terribad at them compared to other classes, however we had alot of potential in power/bunkering areas. Unfortunately, this patch is more or less for the facerolling masses that don’t know how to play. Now Necro is OP.

Add “Strength of the Underworld” to Grandmaster Spite tree.
Strength of the Underworld
Wells last 50% longer, and do 20% more damage

WOW, all I see here is " I play a powermancer!!, Please nerf condis and buff the build i play!!!"

Let me guess you spam wells on a point and hate condi builds. If you think “Strength if the Underworld” is a good idea, your bat kitten crazy.

Hey, guess what. Conditionmancer is overpowered. And I play both. Infact since the buff, I have played nonstop Terrormancer, because it’s overpowered, and easy.

Speaking of which, Strength of the Underworld wouldn’t be overpowered at all, since you’d have to decide on making your Wells stronger, or your overall weapons stronger such as Close to Death on Daggers. That trait would allow for stronger support/team play power builds. If you noticed, I also buffed Minionmancers there, and I hate Minions.

So get over yourself, bro.

Pretty sure you believe you are king of the necros. What is you rank, team, win/loss tournament ratio, or position on the leader board? Pretty sure its all embarrassing

Pretty well known condi was still the favored build for necro in top tournament pvp before the patch. Every necro in the top 50 played condi for the most part. Not saying power build are not good, but your statements are just false. Btw lol at the bro comment, forgot school was out.

Ignorance spreads amongst the masses. I’m tired of reiterating my points to people such as yourself. Don’t believe me? Test it. I tested it, and I used to think the same way you people did until I learned from good players, not the false idols.

Ok, if necro was good before the patch, then why less top team had necro with them ? And if Terror mancer was a bad spec, why top teams run with them ?
Its not about “learn to play”, its about team requerments. Just think like this : what kind of player will you have in you team , one who is running effectevly + supports you in game and if he make misstake its not so bad or one who mb run more effectivly, but every mistake can cost you a game ?! Thats why necro was so kitten unpopular pre patch. And thats why most of necros were (are) running terror mancer.

Because most of the ‘top’ Necromancers are ignorant, and run crappy builds. I have used the builds they deem good, and they are terrible. Here’s a thought, if all the bad players in the universe decide to use a meta build given out by a ‘top’ player, and that build happens to be bad. What are they going to say? Necro is UP.

You obviously do not understand Necro, then. Well of Suffering, Well of Corruption, Deathshroud 4 is an immense damage burst, and it’s much easier to land compared to Elementalist Stakitten which is our only other competition, unless you count bad direct damage Engi grenade builds. Which we still beat.

Login.5102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Login.5102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Terok.7315:

carlos the dwarf.1038:

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

Necromancers were good before patch, they simply took far more skill. The biggest mistake you could make on trying to run a prepatch Necro was thinking they were good at conditions, prepatch Necromancers were terribad at them compared to other classes, however we had alot of potential in power/bunkering areas. Unfortunately, this patch is more or less for the facerolling masses that don’t know how to play. Now Necro is OP.

Add “Strength of the Underworld” to Grandmaster Spite tree.
Strength of the Underworld
Wells last 50% longer, and do 20% more damage

WOW, all I see here is " I play a powermancer!!, Please nerf condis and buff the build i play!!!"

Let me guess you spam wells on a point and hate condi builds. If you think “Strength if the Underworld” is a good idea, your bat kitten crazy.

Hey, guess what. Conditionmancer is overpowered. And I play both. Infact since the buff, I have played nonstop Terrormancer, because it’s overpowered, and easy.

Speaking of which, Strength of the Underworld wouldn’t be overpowered at all, since you’d have to decide on making your Wells stronger, or your overall weapons stronger such as Close to Death on Daggers. That trait would allow for stronger support/team play power builds. If you noticed, I also buffed Minionmancers there, and I hate Minions.

So get over yourself, bro.

Pretty sure you believe you are king of the necros. What is you rank, team, win/loss tournament ratio, or position on the leader board? Pretty sure its all embarrassing

Pretty well known condi was still the favored build for necro in top tournament pvp before the patch. Every necro in the top 50 played condi for the most part. Not saying power build are not good, but your statements are just false. Btw lol at the bro comment, forgot school was out.

Ignorance spreads amongst the masses. I’m tired of reiterating my points to people such as yourself. Don’t believe me? Test it. I tested it, and I used to think the same way you people did until I learned from good players, not the false idols.

Terok.7315:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Terok.7315:

carlos the dwarf.1038:

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

Necromancers were good before patch, they simply took far more skill. The biggest mistake you could make on trying to run a prepatch Necro was thinking they were good at conditions, prepatch Necromancers were terribad at them compared to other classes, however we had alot of potential in power/bunkering areas. Unfortunately, this patch is more or less for the facerolling masses that don’t know how to play. Now Necro is OP.

So we were awful at conditions and had “potential” at power/bunkering..? Ok then!

Yes, we did. Our condition application was one of the weakest in the game, but we had the strongest AoE in the game. We also had an effective bunker build no one learned how to make except Spazzcromancer.

Login.5102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Terok.7315:

carlos the dwarf.1038:

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

Necromancers were good before patch, they simply took far more skill. The biggest mistake you could make on trying to run a prepatch Necro was thinking they were good at conditions, prepatch Necromancers were terribad at them compared to other classes, however we had alot of potential in power/bunkering areas. Unfortunately, this patch is more or less for the facerolling masses that don’t know how to play. Now Necro is OP.

Add “Strength of the Underworld” to Grandmaster Spite tree.
Strength of the Underworld
Wells last 50% longer, and do 20% more damage

WOW, all I see here is " I play a powermancer!!, Please nerf condis and buff the build i play!!!"

Let me guess you spam wells on a point and hate condi builds. If you think “Strength if the Underworld” is a good idea, your bat kitten crazy.

Hey, guess what. Conditionmancer is overpowered. And I play both. Infact since the buff, I have played nonstop Terrormancer, because it’s overpowered, and easy.

Speaking of which, Strength of the Underworld wouldn’t be overpowered at all, since you’d have to decide on making your Wells stronger, or your overall weapons stronger such as Close to Death on Daggers. That trait would allow for stronger support/team play power builds. If you noticed, I also buffed Minionmancers there, and I hate Minions.

So get over yourself, bro.

Terok.7315:

carlos the dwarf.1038:

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

Necromancers were good before patch, they simply took far more skill. The biggest mistake you could make on trying to run a prepatch Necro was thinking they were good at conditions, prepatch Necromancers were terribad at them compared to other classes, however we had alot of potential in power/bunkering areas. Unfortunately, this patch is more or less for the facerolling masses that don’t know how to play. Now Necro is OP.

My Roamer and my Tormentor.

Poplolita.2638:

The more I read you, the more I hardly take you seriously. Particularly since you clammed necromancer had one of the best bunker build pre patch. A “build” you didn’t want to reveal in fear arenaNet will nerf it. How ironic from you.

Here is a question for you: I main Necromancer. If I claim it is overpowered, if I have no problem killing/doing objectives easily to the point to where it no longer takes any forethought/skill. Perhaps it is simply all the Necromancers whom say it is underpowered that are doing something wrong. We didn’t need a buff prepatch, we needed fixes and minor changes.

Anyhow, if you want to see the bunker build, talk to Spazzcromancer, his build. If it were my build, I would have revealed it already.

I main Necromancer. We’re overpowered.

Here is how to fix us:

• Remove Fear from Spectral Wall

• Add Torment (6s) to Spectral Wall

• Remove “Dhuumfire”

• Add “Strength of the Underworld” to Grandmaster Spite tree.
  Strength of the Underworld
  Wells last 50% longer, and do 20% more damage.

• Make Greater Marks default on Staff

• Move Staff Mastery to replace Greater Marks

• Move “Death Nova” down to Master Traits

• Add “Vengeful Servants” to Grandmaster Death Magic tree
  Vengeful Servants
  When a Minion dies, you receive Fury(5s) and Vigor(5s) (Does not apply to Jagged horrors)

• Change “Vampiric Precision” to heal yourself for 20% of the damage you inflict from Critical Hits

• Move “Vampiric Precision” to Grandmaster Blood Magic tree

• Move “Vampiric Rituals” to Master Blood Magic tree.

• Move “Terror” to Grandmaster tree.

• Move “Withering Precision” to Master tree.

• Move “Target the Weak” to Grandmaster Spite trait

• Remove “Siphoned Power”

• Move “Furious Demise” to Minor Curses trait

• Move “Barbed Precision” to Master Curses Trait

• Increase bleed duration on “Barbed precision” bleeds by 100%

• Add new trait “Myopathy” to Grandmaster Curses trait to replace “Target the Weak”
  Myopathy
  Apply 2 seconds of Immobilize and vulnerability when you apply Weakness (10 second CD)

• Remove trait “Reanimator”

• Move “Ritual of Protection” to replace “Reanimator” (Only applies protection once per well)

• Add new trait “Summoner” in Master Traits
  Summoner
  Summon 2 Jagged Horrors when you use a healing skill in combat. Capped at a maximum of 5 Jagged Horrors. (Remove the constant negative health effects from Jagged Horrors)

• Remove trait “Strength of Undeath”

• Add trait “Specter” to replace “Strength of Undeath”
  Specter
  You regenerate 50% of your life force when out of combat.

Above is a nerf to the OP Terrormancer you see lately, and a buff to lesser used builds, also a buff to make Vampires viable. Numerous fixes to crappy traits too.

Red Raven.7824:

That sounds like a pretty big exaggeration.. 30 sec. Did you do anything in your defense when fighting the Necro? I’d just like to know what gave you that kind of result.. I’d like to say that 1v1 is not an accurate scenario in which to test a tpvp build though.

It isn’t, but it is an accurate way to test matchups and a build’s limits. The Necromancer was using one of my builds, and he saved his main burst for when my Stability/Cures were finished. I couldn’t do enough to him to kill him, and he simply wore me down until I wasted my skills/made a mistake, and dominated me with a massive fear chain. The problem with this build is, for tPvP anyway:

A) It doesn’t provide enough support/AoE Damage to merit bringing it over a different class

B) It doesn’t provide nearly enough damage to win fights in many instances without hand holding from your team

Those are my only problems with this build, but that’s more or less a problem of Warrior in general. Warrior and Guardian should’ve received torment, not Thieves/Mesmers. If this build had torment, I’d have a much better opinion about it.