Mesmer:
With the recent changes to Illusionists Celerity (reduces cooldown on Illusion summoning skills by 20%) from a 5 point minor to a 25 point minor in the “Illusion” tree, many mesmers have felt that the recent patch has resulted in a net reduction of viable builds, as opposed to the stated intent of increasing viable builds.
One of the reasons is that Illusionists Celerity reduces the cooldown of offensive phantasms such as the Berserker, Duelist, Swordsman, as well as defensive Illusion summoning skills, such as Decoy, Phantasmal Disenchanter and Phantasmal Defender.
Will we see any mesmer changes in the future that would allow players to reduce the cooldown of Decoy, Disenchanter and Defender without having to invest 25 points into the Illusion tree?
Are there plans to further separate sPvP skills from WvW? Recent changes to skills and utilities have made some professions/specs that were already extremely difficult to kill in WvW basically impossible to kill in WvW. Without changes to segregate the behavior of these abilities, I fear that parts of parts of WvW, just as world roaming, are no longer viable to many professions.
Dunno if you thought about this Softspoken, but you could run two axe’s…one in each main hand slot so that you can have an “On Weapon Swap” sigil that will fire whenever you change your secondary…
Just food for thought.
I’ll admit, part of it is me being a miser and not wanting to grab a second axe for my necromancer. I also haven’t given too much thought to sigils yet, I’ve just got a stacking sigil on my Axe. What would you use in the off-hand weapons in that scenario?
Edit: Just testing it now, and I can actually proc the on-swap bonus with just one main-hand axe. Obviously that’s only one type of on-swap bonus, but still something.
Wait – you’re literally running with just one axe? Doesn’t that kitten your stats pretty heavily?
Looking at the June 25th patchnotes one thing seems to stand out:
Interrupt.
Did anybody look into this post patch and sees a way to combine interrupts and its side effects with some of the common Shatter and Phantasm builds in sPvP and WvW?
How hard does Halting Strike hit now?
For PVE, I’d recommend Close To Death.
For WvW / PvP, I’d recommend Dhuumfire as it deals damage AND helps protect your bleed stacks.
True, but the thread is about hybrid builds.
if you play condition necro then both will have like the same effect in pve, cause CTD won scale you rcondition damage, and DF will have better results in single target
First of all i`d like people to keep in mind that condi damage builds are… damage builds just like berserker.
Condi needs to deal some amount of damage. Condi builds may be tankier than berserker ones but you will never see the same amount of burst ( and dps as well most likely)
This is complete bull.
Don’t full yourself condition damage does BURST damage.
Look at this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Condition-Damage-vs-Direct-Damage/first
And the last post in that thread summed it up nicely. The original post in that thread, which you started, is completely misleading.
Burst damage is instant. Condition damage is DoT damage. DoT damage is Damage Over Time.
QED
The video says it all..
Must be a thief.
Edit: LOL – just watched the video. And a terrible thief at that. Go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure.
(edited by Thedenofsin.7340)
For PVE, I’d recommend Close To Death.
For WvW / PvP, I’d recommend Dhuumfire as it deals damage AND helps protect your bleed stacks.
Chained CC and focus fire is a Necromancer’s weakness. That’s as-designed.
Just like a Guardian’s is boon stripping, and a thief’s weakness is …umm.. stealth traps and lag spikes.
Disenchanter is quite good 1v1 for fights without a lot of AoE. He’s also useful against guardians. Not so great in PVE.
The retaliation nerf was over the top. Really no need to nerf it, as really the only builds that could truly take advantage of it were high power builds that put at least 5 points into inspiration.
I don’t think it should have been touched at all, but the way it was changed was really heavy-handed. They should have at least considered swapping Chaos 15 (Illusionary Membrane) for Inspiration 5 (Vengeful Images).
Hopefully they will fix Corrupt Boon to not be so kitten tempermental.
Also a cleave on axe or dagger would be really helpful for PVE.
LOL I can’t believe this thread.
OMG Anet content is too easy we need harder dungeons.
OMG Anet content is too hard we need easier dungeons.
WTF is wrong with you people! This dungeon is the CORRECT amount of difficulty. .
No it isn’t.
I’ve 1 shot Frizz with pugs and defeated the last boss after 1 wipe because the pugs couldn’t run out of red circles.
If I’d make a dungeon most GW2 players would start crying after the first pull.
Then I’d suggest you go play some other game. GW2 isn’t for you.
Lol i think it’ s ridiculous that you have to focus necros first than everyone else or they melt your whole team in a matter of seconds.
If you have a zerg on zerg and let a condition necro sit in the back and spam bleeds on someone, and that person doesn’t cleanse them, and you then let the necro cast Epidemic, yeah, you’re going to be in trouble. If you have someone, anyone, put pressure on the necro, it won’t happen.
That’s really no different than having a zerg on zerg and letting an elementalist sit in the back and AoE spam your team. Except the AoE spam cannot be cleansed and the elementalist has much better escapes and survivability.
@Myrmidian Eudoros: Necromancers could stunlock even before the patch, a lot of Pvp powerbuilds, since October 2012 were running with Golem Charge + Doom + Wail of Doom. Condimancer could do that amount of damage even before the patch, the damaging Doom was something implemented long ago.
People forget old times in which Warriors were used to bishot Necromancers (or whatever walking thing without any escape CD), and now they fail to see that Thiefes and Mesmers are still more OP than Necromancers.
It’s a knee-jerk reaction. Previously, players would just steamroll necromancers. This is basically how I handled necros on my mesmer: have a condition remover, a stun breaker and burn them down. Death shroud was just more hp to burn down.
Now, a year later, necromancers got buffed and can’t be steamrolled anymore. Now necromancers are more like the attrition class they were supposed to be. The longer the fight lasts, the more likely you are to lose. Shackled Taint and burn on crit give necros that little extra oomph in the condition department that gives them an edge in prolonged fights. Previously when you fought a necro you’d have to worry about cleansing bleeds and poison. Now you have to worry about bleeds, poison, Torment and burning (depending on the build). Torment and Burning don’t seem like much, but they can act as prophylactic conditions that allow a necromancer to keep (and keep building up) his stack of bleeds.
Players now need to learn, for the first time, how to fight one. However, they aren’t really that much different than before.
Still, you need condition removal, a stun breaker and straight up damage will burn down a necro pretty quickly. If you have access to stability, that’s a big plus.
Engage the necro first, engage quickly and engage ruthlessly. A fresh necro has no vigor, almost no stability and will have an empty life force bar. Getting the initiative and putting them into a deficit will force a necro to use their fears defensively. Once they’ve dodge rolled twice, they’re basically a giant punching bag – unload your burst on them, and cleanse when necessary. If the extra conditions are giving you heartburn, then equip a Sigil of Purity.
If the necro got some lucky crits in or caught you with your pants down, just disengage and reset the fight. Necromancers can’t chase anyone worth a kitten .
Now, if the necro has necrotic grasp (ranged pull) and he’s not part of a group, he’s most likely a glass cannon dagger build. You fight those like you’d fight a skillseeker thief, but without the stealth.
Oh, and dont step in the crap on the ground.
(edited by Thedenofsin.7340)
@Myrmidian Eudoros: Necromancers could stunlock even before the patch, a lot of Pvp powerbuilds, since October 2012 were running with Golem Charge + Doom + Wail of Doom. Condimancer could do that amount of damage even before the patch, the damaging Doom was something implemented long ago.
People forget old times in which Warriors were used to bishot Necromancers (or whatever walking thing without any escape CD), and now they fail to see that Thiefes and Mesmers are still more OP than Necromancers.
It’s a knee-jerk reaction. Previously, players would just steamroll necromancers. This is basically how I handled necros on my mesmer: have a condition remover, a stun breaker and burn them down. Death shroud was just more hp to burn down.
Now, a year later, necromancers got buffed and can’t be steamrolled anymore. Now necromancers are more like the attrition class they were supposed to be. The longer the fight lasts, the more likely you are to lose. Shackled Taint and burn on crit give necros that little extra oomph in the condition department that gives them an edge in prolonged fights.
Players now need to learn, for the first time, how to fight one. However, they aren’t really that much different than before.
Still, you need condition removal, a stun breaker and straight up damage will burn down a necro pretty quickly. If you have access to stability, that’s a big plus.
Engage the necro first and quickly. A fresh necro has no vigor, almost no stability and will have an empty life force bar. Getting the initiative and putting them into a deficit will force a necro to use their fears defensively. Once they’ve dodge rolled twice, they’re basically a giant punching bag – unload your burst on them, and cleanse when necessary. If the extra conditions are giving you heartburn, then equip a Sigil of Purity.
Oh, and dont step in the crap on the ground.
Explain what brain cells are required to avoid the random canon fire. It’s RANDOM and sometimes you CANNOT avoid it. How is that a test of skiill?
It’s not random and you can avoid it. But maybe my guardian angel is looking after me since I completed this dungeon 6 times so far – ONLY PUGS – and I didn’t die a single time from cannons.
+ how the fudge can you not avoid it? After the red circle appears you have like 1-2 seconds before you get hit…
Seriously people, what is wrong with you. Go play Sims or whatever ><
I’ve done kitten encounters like this many times in the past in games like WoW. Once you learn the dance you’re good to go. Here, though there’s an element of RNG to the cannons.
One circle is easy. Two is easy. When 4 or more appear, and they all overlap you need to dodge roll out. Sometimes you have to double dodge roll. Then you’re out of dodges for a while. If that happens again, you’re in trouble or down.
Also, the red circles on the ground are misleading in that the aoe damage extends slightly beyond the circles.
(edited by Thedenofsin.7340)
How about one for WvW? It would go something like this:
A) perma-stealth Thief
B) no class/spec this close to A
C) no class/spec this close to A
D) other thieves
E) Mesmer, elementalist
F) Guardian, engineer
G) everyone else
ANet needs to give classes abilities that slap a 10 second ‘revealed’ debuffs on enemies.
Start with an Asura…
Shatter wasn’t really affected, except for Blurred Frenzy.
I tried a 0/20/30/0/20 Prismatic Understanding build today, it was surprisingly effective.
That’s what I’ve been running in WvW. It’s really quite good.
There is no basic problem with the condition itself, or the mode of application. The problem is that it’s on the scepter. You have the worthless autoattack, and you have confusing images, which is slow, clunky, and applies a worthless condition. As much as the block is now fantastic for condition specs, the scepter is still so bad that it’s painful to use.
To be fair, this is really more commentary on the scepter than Torment.
If I had my druthers, I’d change the scepter auto-attack to apply a random condition (burning for 1 second, bleeding or poison for 3 seconds) on chain #2, and chain #3 should spawn a clone that does damage and applies 2 stacks of confusion for 1 second.
Torment, in principle, is far worse than confusion. FAR worse. In application, it’s just a nice little boost.
I think when they came up with the concept for Torment, it probably started out much like how Havana described – huge damage if you moved and practically nothing if you did not.
Quickly playtesting would reveal this doesn’t work well. It makes the people feel rather useless and would actually make the gameplay all the poorer for it.
I suspect they realized this and tweaked it to be less punishing for movement. Eventually they realized they basically had to balance the DoT around the idea that a person would be moving with this condition on them. This is something I conjectured when reading the patch notes.
(edited by Thedenofsin.7340)
MOST of the people that probably have no problems with this dungeon are probably still enjoying it in game or doing something else. Vocal minority (imo) =/= the majority.
BTW, completed this multiple times with multiple toons, each time we only had 1 guardian at most in the group, and even then the didn’t always take swiftness/staff.
Please don’t state your opinion as fact. It’s not. It’s exactly that, your opinion. YOU think that most people probably have no problems with this dungeon. YOU think the vocal minority are the ones who find this dungeon overtuned.
Why don’t you delete your post instead of trolling?
My skill is just fine. In fact, I’m usually the one that gets marked for the other people to follow.
The dungeon is overtuned.
Period.
I pugged this 5 times now and they all failed on the last boss during the canon phase. Every time we grouped up and ran in a circle. Sometimes you stay ahead of the red circles, sometimes they are right on top of you so you have to dodge roll out. You only have to get unlucky a couple of times and you are down, and you cannot be saved.
The last run we got the boss to 25%. Why? Because we had a Guardian tossing out swiftness.
Look at the dulfy video: they had 4 guardians.
4.
Over tuned
ANet look at your server stats – you’ve way overtuned this instance.
How many times do you need to be told you have to set up a test server?
How many people need to stop playing before you listen?
Happened to me as well.
I’m guessing ANet has put in some groundwork for either new levels (new expansion), or additional perks you get as you ‘gain levels’ once you hit 80.
Explain what brain cells are required to avoid the random canon fire. It’s RANDOM and sometimes you CANNOT avoid it. How is that a test of skiill?
No, this completely sucks.
I don’t ever intend on coming back to this instance unless it gets NERFED.
TO THE GROUND.
way too hard for it to be considered ‘fun’
The canon part needs a REALLY substantial nerf. We ran it with 100% guildies and kept getting nailed by the canons. Not every profession has access to vigor…
!
Illusionists Celerity has been one of, if not the, most powerful Adept Minor traits in the game. It’s easily as powerful as any Adept Major trait, and many people have long expected it to be nerfed or promoted.
If you look at that minor Adept trait, pre-patch, it’s better than most of the Grandmaster Adept traits. Thank God they didn’t tough Critical Infusion, or we’d really be screwed…
Now, that out of the way, I agree with most of Prometheus’ post.
However, it’s not all doom and gloom as he says. Condition mesmers got a nice little buff with scepter and Prismatic Understanding. Also, the speed movement buff is great -
Yup, it’s definitely OP on it’s own. However, I think ANet knew this and they’re probably seeing what falls out from the nerf to Illusionists Celerity before making more changes.
Yeah it’s ridonk-a-donk! I couldn’t believe the patch notes when I saw it.
Run 0/20/30/0/20 or 20/20/30/0/0 with torch, decoy, mass invis and you’ll see how good it is.
Though I’m considering running 0/20/30/20/0 to see how much of an impact the extra 150 condition damage does with scepter.
(edited by Thedenofsin.7340)
In tournaments Corrupt Boon tends to work better. I think this is because a lot of the fighting happens on nice level ground and there is something about the Corrupt Boon utility that fails on uneven surfaces.
Signet of Undeath was the Necromancer’s double-edged sword: blatantly overpowered, which is why every necromancer ran with it. It’s the reason necromancers would get assist trained, and, at the same time, the only reason why necromancers were brought into Tournament PvP.
Back on topic, CB fails entirely too frequently for it to get nerfed. It needs to be put back the way it was, given how inconsistently it behaves.
The nerf makes it downright useless. Now it may or may not work, but if it does it will only remove 5 boons. Most likely there is no precedence on what boons are removed. And it’s still on a 40 second cooldown. AND it still poisons the caster. AND it does terrible damage.
No longer worth it, which is sad because I always perceived that utility as truly class-defining – condition/boon manipulation and control.
If Corrupt Boon worked reliably AND didn’t self-poison AND had a boon removal priority AND Save Yourselves didn’t grant 7 boons AND the 6 pieces Rune of Lyssa proc, which grants all 9 boons, had a 120 second cooldown, then I could see this change being somewhat sensible.
Given this isn’t the case, I can’t possibly agree with the changes to Corrupt Boon.
Maybe if CB was reliable, had boon removal priority and increased the duration of corrupted boons by 25% for each boon still remaining on the opponent, then I’d be OK with reducing CB to 5 boons.
(edited by Thedenofsin.7340)
Very nice! A spike condition build!
That seems logical. For your logic, ANet will perma-ban you!
It needed a buff, not a nerf. It needed to be fixed to work consistently.
It was a bad change, and I’d like to know what the reasoning was behind the nerf.
The logic is baffling to me. Corrupt Boon is subject to some kind of hidden game laws such that it’s a total crap-shoot if it’s going to work. It seems like it only works if you are directly facing your target on completely level ground and your opponent doesn’t do anything odd like jump, run up a hill or sneeze.
It’s so inconsistent that, as much as I’d like to use it, I can’t rely on it. I only equip it for a lark.
Furthermore, it makes no sense that a utility that transforms all boons into conditions on a 40 second cooldown is considered overpowered, while a 6-piece rune bonus on a cooldown as low as 45 seconds allows a player to remove all conditions AND give all boons.
in con sis tent
Anyone uploaded a video of the new tainted shackle animation?
Anyone snicker when they say ‘tainted shackle’?
Death Shroud is brutal now. Place wall behind, torment, fear through wall.
We are going to be annoying as all get out now. People will hate us, maybe as much as mesmer. Heck I fought some 1v1s today pre-patch, and the guy hated how much CC I had already.
Can’t figure out if I want burning or not though, lol.
This is exactly what I was thinking, basically a roamer power build. Drop a wall, DS5, fear them then switch to dagger spam for 5 seconds while they run around. Then golem charge and bone fiend attack while you spam them with dagger 1. That would be like a 10 second lockdown. haha
(edited by Thedenofsin.7340)
I’d challenge any dev to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.
I’d challenge any 3 developers to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.
I’d challenge 5 to try solo a good perma-stealth thief.
Is that glassdoor estimate accurate? If so, then YES! they are underpaid by a good 20-30%.
I enjoyed more in a tongue-in-cheek kind of way. I hope that was the intent.
As a person with a Mesmer main, I’m still against giving Mesmers and Thieves more buffs, especially this new condition. In fact, I’m against this kind of condition in principle.
That being said, I do think the best way to implement this bad condition would be the way it is suggested for Mesmers in the “?patch notes?” – as a proc from a reactive ability. Torment supposedly will proc only if you hit the Mesmer while he is blocking, otherwise – no torment.
I could see this working very nicely in the exact same way for warriors – blocks proc torment. Would be decent.
We are aware of this issue and have a team looking into it.
Thank you to all that have posted!
Unfortunately that team has been sacked and been replaced with an intern.
The intern quit to go work for Blizzard, so ArenaNet gave the bug to one of their graphic artists. He spent 20 hours drawing CG bugs bouncing on top of stakitten .
Unfortunately he overspent the budget allocated to fixing all mesmer issues for Q2 and Q3 2013, so the lead developer has retcon’ed this bug. It’s now “as designed”.
Enjoy!
PU buff seems overkill – it’s already an amazing trait.
Ah, I’m not complaining, but I’d be surprised if it remains like that pulsing every second – it’s already pretty much guaranteed protection or aegis.
Ssshh! It’ll be our secret!
Giving torment to what are arguably the strongest dueling professions in the game is just so backwards that I don’t know where to begin and I say this as a full time necromancer. Mesmers and thieves were already a major pain in the kitten to catch and now it’s just completely out of the question. I would have much rather shared this condition with rangers and warriors.
I kind of agree with this post. As a person who plays a mesmer, I’d rather see warriors get this too.
Also, if the developers are actually reading this, can you tell us what boon “Well of Power” converts this condition into?
They are all fundamentally different.
as I said before, I don’t PvP so there is my bias, but I feel like people should wait and see how this pans out before crying foul.
Experience with ArenaNet patches suggests otherwise.
Perhaps it will be dependent on speed moving, or length of time moving. Maybe if it is length of time all you need to do is move a few steps, stop for a millisecond, move a few steps etc.. That’d slow you down less than cripple.
It clearly does not do this, as it deals damage even if you are not moving, just less damage.
Currently chill, cripple and immobilize will stop you from moving too, but they are unavoidable. In this instance, you could move and take damage, or sit still and not take damage. The choice is yours and it’s a trade off. This game needs more trade offs like that imo.
I think you need to go back and re-read the description of Torment. It deals damage regardless of whether you are moving, so the trade-off is: stand still and take damage or move and take more.
However, you admittedly do not PvP, so you may not truly realize how important movement and positioning is to the PvP. It’s extremely important.
If this is the case, then I expect torment to also be difficult to time for effect. It will just be spammed whenever it’s available with little regard for skilled play (because the reward is not sufficient).
If that’s the case, then I’d argue it does not increase the complexity of the meta, nor raise the skillcap. If it does neither of those, it should not get added.
Hmm, I think it will just mean that condition removal will be more important. It’s no different than any other condition really..
Weakness your ability to dodge is hindered
Bleeding punishes you for having flesh
Confusion punishes you for attackingTorment punishes you for moving
In all situations, must use condition removal. Maybe we need to see it in action before we claim that it is breaking the basics of the game mechanics. Perhaps, instead, it will simply increase the variability on each fight and how one reacts.
You just listed how fundamentally different Torment is from the other conditions, and yet you cannot see how it’s different? Torment punishes you for moving. That’s actually worse than Confusion (which, I believe, should never proc if your opponent is activating a condition removal ability).
If ArenaNet puts something like Torment in the game, it should be used very sparingly, and not given to classes with good mobility.