Guild Wars 2

So basically, what I wrote earlier turned out to be true after all.

Leuca.5732:

BlackBeard.2873:

Of course your best bet is still a mix of gear.

A mix of gear, yes. However, an ele’s inability to reliably stack conditions on targets with even modest removal ability should pretty much remove condition damage from your factoring unless you do nothing but regular PvE.

True, but damage can also be reduced through weakness and/or protection, which are usually left out of the calculations as well.

So let me ask you then, Grevender:

How much damage does a damage dealer need to do in Guild Wars 2 in order for them to be effective?

Azunai.5974:

ThiBash.5634:

Eles have a great sword already. It’s under ‘elite skills’. If that’s not enough, please roll a mesmer.

While it’s okay to have your own opinion, it is considered rude to tell other people what to do with their class.

What do you think of rifles, though?

Aplogies, that came out a bit more roughly than I intended to.

Rifles would seem like a cool idea, and would give the ‘ranged damage but no support’ requests something to work on.

silvermember.8941:

stale.9785:

ThiBash.5634:

stale.9785:

Skill doesn’t matter when the class itself is boned. Seriously, you could be god’s gift to ele’s, and you’re still not a threat to another player controlled character. Seriously, any player who’s paying attention will only ever allow 2 ele skills to land. Most of the skills can be stepped away from, no dodge needed. There are a very few where someone will have to burn a dodge, but that’s it.

Were ele’s alright, they’d have a heavy presence anywhere other than overworld PvE.

My guess is you’re the one who’s boned, because I’m not experiencing the issues you’re mentioning. But since very few people will even TRY to duel with staff, how can you expect hordes of staff eles in WvW? It’s circular reasoning: eles suck so nobody will play them so nobody will play them well so they suck. Sure, staff was never meant to be the top duelling weapon, but claiming you won’t land a hit is just plain false.

Feel free to disagree, because I disagree with you.

Dude, I played ele, a lot. Then I just stopped, completely. Doing more work for less output, regardless of the situation, is bad. The truly sad aspect of this is twofold; one is that it would be extremely easy to fix. The second is so many people who deny there are problems.

Each blatant problem has been brought up before, and as always, the people who believe the ele is fine crawl out of the woodwork and actively object to suggestions that would improve the class.

If you recall, Thi, I’ve suggested numerous things that would improve the ele – and we don’t get them. Since I’ve grown tired of bashing my face against a wall to no avail, the simplest option was to roll another class, and actually have fun.

Anyway, there’s no so blind as those who will not see, so there’s no point continuing this.

Later, eh?

Stale

Not too sure why you are concern with what he says, it feels like he is just punking us or laughing as he types each ridiculous comment.

Do you honestly feel that dismissing me as crazy is the best way to adress my counter arguments? Because to be honest, I could feel the same way about your arguments.

In most posts, people complain about basic things without taking all variables into consideration. They demand the staff ele to have high damage and still retain their support. Eles should get weapon swap. Eles should be able to win all 2v1 fights. Combos fields aren’t taken into account when balancing. Combining weapons with different utilities and trait builds is nonsense. And so on. And so on…

If an informed post comes along that makes a valid argument, I will consider it and support it. But for my part, I’m getting sick of the 95% ele wannabees that expect the staff ele to be a WoW mage, and then cry if they lose a duel against 2 other players.

The elementalist is a unique take on the classic caster profession. But it’s as much a stereotypical mage as Guild Wars 2 has the stereotypical tank/heal/dps setup. any serious attempt at balancing the elementalist should thus take these factors into consideration and THEN complain.

Fishbait.6723:

Attunement swap isn`t the same as weapon swap though.
I can swap from one to another & I`m still a pure melee only classs.
Weapon swap allows players to hit someone from range & swap to melee weapons when they`re being trained down in melee range.

You’re not melee when wielding daggers, you’re short-ranged.

Crossplay.2067:

No matter what I do, I’ve been near useless as a staff wielder in melee and a dagger user at range.

You can get by with staff in melee range by using Evasive Arcana dodges effectively, or make your opponent back-off by casting a Meteor Shower/Eruption where you’re both fighting. Granted, it’s not optimal, but you shouldn’t be defenseless when fighting in melee with a staff.

I also wonder, what would be overpowering if eles had access to 40 weapons skills?

For one thing, all eles regardless of build could use an ice field combined with blast finishers could give a whole party perma fury, protection and swiftness for little to no effort.

Or consider several blast finishers in a water field…mass healing, for any ele build. At the moment, that at least requires a partner or a (very) specialized build. With weapon swaps, all eles would have acces to that all the time.

Let’s just hope this was a sort of preview, and the mini will become available ingame (or through the store) at some later date. Though it’d be harsh on the eBay dude that wins it, it’d be a blessing for my wife who’s an avid Guild Wars supporter and spent tons trying to get all minis…

Eles have a great sword already. It’s under ‘elite skills’. If that’s not enough, please roll a mesmer.

After a lot of calculating and reasoning, I found that celestial and pvt would deal roughly equal damage (which makes sense, given that they fulfill the same role). However, on D/D celestial will be slightly better because it has more conditions. On staff, pvt wins because of the unpredictable nature of eruption, and not enough condition damage skills otherwise.

But they’re pretty close really…maybe when magic find gets removed, and celestial gets a compensation buff, it could come out on top.

stale.9785:

Skill doesn’t matter when the class itself is boned. Seriously, you could be god’s gift to ele’s, and you’re still not a threat to another player controlled character. Seriously, any player who’s paying attention will only ever allow 2 ele skills to land. Most of the skills can be stepped away from, no dodge needed. There are a very few where someone will have to burn a dodge, but that’s it.

Were ele’s alright, they’d have a heavy presence anywhere other than overworld PvE.

My guess is you’re the one who’s boned, because I’m not experiencing the issues you’re mentioning. But since very few people will even TRY to duel with staff, how can you expect hordes of staff eles in WvW? It’s circular reasoning: eles suck so nobody will play them so nobody will play them well so they suck. Sure, staff was never meant to be the top duelling weapon, but claiming you won’t land a hit is just plain false.

Feel free to disagree, because I disagree with you.

Erebus.7568:

Ryld.1340:

And let’s go through that List:
Soothing Wave: How does this help you? Do you use Ice Bow in PvP? How about Signet of Water? The closest thing you can use to this is Mist Form, but you can’t take this trait as Staff if you’re in Water because of the much better options. Also, if you’re in mist form, you’re not doing damage. Are you saying that you’re going to use Eruption then Mist Form next to them, using a 75 second cooldown ability just to chill them for the possibility you might land Ice Spike on them?
Glyph of Elemental Power: This cripples and chills, yes. But again, this doesn’t effect dodging. Also, you’re relying on a 2 second chill proc off autoattack of water (Which is NO damage what so ever) with only a 25% chance to proc. Stoning for a cripple then Eruption doesn’t work much better either.
Elemental Surge: This will not be taken over Evasive Arcana as Staff. If you’re going damage, you don’t go 30 Arcane either.
Glyph of Lesser Elemental: This is another case of a utility that is not taken nor used. Also, you’re only using it in one attunement (Water for Chill) and relying on it to use it when you need it.
Signet of Earth: Is a good signet and I wish it was better and had a stun break. This is a valid choice, but using just this and standard staff, you only have two sources of immobilize.
Glyph of Storms – Water: I’d go with this if it was more uniform in its chilling like the Earth version is. As is, it’s too unreliable to use it to help hit with.
Evasive Arcana – Earth: This has a few key problems. You have to be in range to use this on someone, and if you do, you only have 3 seconds of cripple to try and hit someone with one of your spells that is going to take 4 seconds to hit.
——————————-

And again. Relying on Chill and Cripple to deal hold a target in place (not immobilize) long enough for one of your 3-4 second AoE’s to actually hit them for a not-large-amount of damage is a bad flaw.

nicely answered, happy i didnt have to sit and write it :P

This is completely true

You support the guy when he doesn’t even know the Glyph of Elemental Power effect is determined when it’s cast and not what attunement you’re currently in (meaning you can cripple things with Fireball, Lava Font and Meteor Shower)?

Cripple affects dodge, especially when it’s perma cripple. Glyph of Elemental Power and an Earth Elemental is all it takes for you to start hitting stuff with your staff. That’s just 1 utility and 1 elite slot, leaving you with 2 free slots.

But I’m guessing you’d know that because you’ve been testing non-cantrip staff builds for months right?

Traps and effects all over the game fail to show up since the recent patch. Non-transparent ghosts and ranger spirits aren’t game breaking, but this is a huge issue when it comes to environment traps. I’m in the Aetherblade Retreat jumping puzzle right now and I can’t see any steam vents, thus making it impossible to finish.

Note that I did NOT change any of my graphics settings before and after the recent patch.

It’s not just those boulders though. Traps and effects all over the game fail to show up since the recent patch. Non-transparent ghosts and ranger spirits aren’t game breaking, but this is a huge issue when it comes to environment traps. I’m in the Aetherblade Retreat jumping puzzle right now and I can’t see any steam vents, thus making it impossible to finish.

stale.9785:

The difference, I suspect, is those that are very good don’t play other professions. There is literally nothing an ele brings to the table that another class doesn’t do better. Especially since the other classes don’t have to sacrifice everything to do it.

Burst? Warrior and thieves have you beat, hands down, and are still survivable while they do it – and they haven’t lost their sustained DPS or utility to get the burst, either.

Group support? Guardian, banner warrior and necromancers all come out on top – and again, they haven’t sacraficed anything to achieve it.

Bunkering? Ele used to be king of that – but the ranger bunker, guardian bunker, and even the current flavour of the month healsig warrior has better survivability than an ele – and they still do damage while set for survival.

And that’s the flaw in your reasoning. You’re comparing the ele against individual professions when the ele does all of that combined. My current playstyle mixes damage, support and good self-survival. Can your warrior do the same? (And summon an earth elemental that can tank just about any ingame boss?)

LightningBlaze.4913:

In conclusion, the ele doesn’t perform as great as it used to within spvp/tpvp but it is not as horrible as forum posters make it sound. Keep in mind a lot of the complains comes from performing poorly within pve, which is the easiest area in this game even as an ele…. how can you expect these players to perform any better in more challenging settings such as spvp/tspvp and wvw solo/small group roaming?.

It’s not a popular sentiment, but I agree with you. The issue is not the profession. The issue is that people expect different things from the elementalist than it’s designed for. Or more damage than it should do balancewise. Ranged will always deal less damage than melee because they don’t have to walk over to the target. And the ele doesn’t have melee, even D/D is technically ranged (with all the benefits that come with it). So that warrior that on paper (and in supereasy fights) outperforms the ele will in practice (extremely tough fights) perform roughly equal.

And under no circumstances should you ever realistically expect to win Xv1. People who claim that eles should be able to do that in all cases to be considered balanced just don’t get it.

The main reason I play with 30 points in Arcana is because of Evasive Arcana. It’s just so much fun dodging about doing stuff. Unless they remove the trait, I don’t think I’ll ever go without…

As for water, I’m not running 30 points anymore. My main build includes glyphs so I decided to boost them a bit more. However, it’s still tough to go any lower than 15 points because the heal/condition cleanse on swakitten o useful….

The ele really gets good once you get the 30pts trait Evasive Arcana. Also, you don’t wanna miss the 10pts trait Elemental Attunement. Both are in the Arcana trait line.

Ryld.1340:

Staff Itself doesn’t have enough snaring to make up for the fact that EVERY SINGLE ATTACK it has (besides autoattacks) is incredibly easy to dodge or misses on its own. In an actual fight, your two main ways of trying to hit someone is Static Field and Shockwave (which misses a lot).

You’re half right. Yes, the staff doesn’t have quite enough snares of its own (although 4 is actually pretty much) BUT…that’s where utility skills and traits come into play. A short list:

Utility:
Glyph of Elemental Power (earth cripple or water chill)
Glyph of (Lesser) Elemental (earth cripple, water chill and elite air)
Signet of Earth
Glyph of Storms (water)

Traits:
Elemental Surge
Earthen Blast
Evasive Arcane (earth dodge)
Soothing Wave

As you can see it’s not quite so bad as you make it out to be, and while neither the weapon nor the utilities nor the traits have enough snaring on their own, when combined they have more than enough to really slow an opponent to a crawl. Also, bear in mind that the Ice Elemental’s ice field is also a combo field, so you can make use of that too.

Dodging by the way, works against ANY attack and thus is not a valid reason to claim the staff is any worse than the other weapon options.

Erebus.7568:

its impossible to hit any of these on a half competent player, you dont have a single root which would ever hit. you can have 1 utility skill which can root (if he kittens up and doesnt dodge it) now you have 4 seconds to lay a burst and reroot for it to do dmg.

You can also immobilize a target through Elemental Surge. If used correctly, you can immobilize them for more than 5 seconds in a row, and the best part is that condition removal won’t work because it’s fired in seperate bursts.

After a lot of tries, I too can now join this club.

My build was an S/D ele with Signet of Air, Signet of Water (for the passives) and Mist Form.

Personally though, I have no illusions I’ll be able to get the 8 orb achievement. I’m just not skilled enough for that.

As for the feedback, I still do not like instant-kill mechanics. It just makes the gear and build choice so trivial. Why pick defense when it’s negated at the moments it really matters?

Erukk.1408:

lordkrall.7241:

So, people shout about how this should be in-game.
HOW would this be in-game?
The only one that could tell us all this would be Scarlet (if she even can due to the experiment) and I have rather major doubts she would tell us.

Other than the parts in Scarlets PoV, and her dialogue in space, we could have ran around and talked to the people named in the story. We would have needed a powerful necromancer to summon the headmaster’s spirit out of the Mists though…

It would be nice to get a story udate where we talk to people and get to seek out lore…

Kinda like the Mad King scavenger hunt…that was actually well done, with lots of lore behind it.

Namica.2951:

Well, reading her short story made it rather clear that those people talking about her past having depth were dead wrong. We can add more to her sueness:

Master Smith
Master Sniper
Evil for the sake of being evil
Responsible for Asuran personal story

When will the sue-ing end? She was already a genius of stupidly large renown, and pretty much a female Traeherne. She is one of, if not thee biggest sue I’ve ever seen in an MMO.

Was gonna say the same thing. The fact that she is in fact Sylvari, and not something else, and was already a master genious before she went to Rata Sum…

Seriously…

SERIOUSLY!

I’d delete my Sylvari if I hadn’t already. Sylavri’s had so much potential yet ended up being the worst written of all Tyria’s races.

Even a random, stereotypical Charr would have been better as a personal nemesis…

She may be a personal nemesis, but she’s not mine. Anyone want to take her on? Anyone? Nobody?

SpeedFiend.4521:

What advice I can offer:

• Kill only the marked stuff, kite the rest

This is very good advice if you want to get Faren in under 3 minutes.

silvermember.8941:

ThiBash.5634:

Your friend just doesn’t get the profession. No worries, not many people do. Those that do know most complaints are way over the top (and having been on both sides of the fence, I can say it’s not nice to hear you need to shap up to play ele, but sadly I have to admit it’s true).

I am sure that is totally the problem. It is not the classes it is most people, oops I mean noobs, having the problem. Afterall ballers like you don’t have a problem.

Over the years are I have played MMO, they always people like you that claim they are no issues with a class, it is because everyone else is bad, they are a pro at that class.

The reality generally is that be good at the class, but they are only good against noobs. Elementalist is one of those classes that against noob it is a strong class, in PvE there is almost no thinking involve so the elementalist in that scenario is also great. IN WvW, most of the flaws in the elementalist is made by the fact that gear+food + the downtime between fights is+ effect of the nerfs are less significant in PvE, but mainly because a lot of WvWers are not PvPer.

Like I said, it’s hard to have this discussion because there will always be people that won’t accept it (and I don’t blame them).

I don’t claim to be a top notch ele player. I’m not the guy that invented the evasive arcane style, nor the D/D bunker ele. But when it comes to eles, there’s 2 groups: those that get it and those that don’t. Unlike some professions, the ele’s effectiveness is directly scaled to the player’s skills. That’s a harsh reality to face for some, but that’s just the way it is.

Truth be told, after the recent patch, I don’t find many flaws in the staff ele anymore. Pretty much anything that was a true issue (and not just exagerated by unskilled players) was fixed.

But I get it that you won’t accept that from me. Just like I wouldn’t when I was in your shoes way back.

‘Worth it’ is in the eye of the beholder.

You’ve already answered your own question when you mentioned that the simple, might+hundred blades combo is something you enjoy playing. You also realize you won’t get that on an ele. The real question you should be answering thus is what it is about eles that you like.

From my perspective, being able to pull of elaborate combos is part of the fun, and I’ve never felt them lacking (a well placed Frozen Ground can result in 20+ seconds of chill for example). However, that doesn’t mean it’s a ‘better’ way of playing, and you shouldn’t feel obligated to learn a more complex profession just because ‘it feels more pro’ or something like that.

In short: play what you like.

Erebus.7568:

is it only me that think the staff cast time should be removed/reduced?.

i really dont think its abilities are strong enough to have the cast time, self roots, that it got right now. i think it would still be fine and not op if the cast time was completely removed on it.

Well, yes, in a way, it IS you.

The very thing you mentioned was adressed in a recent patch, making Healing Rain able to cast while moving and reducing the cast time on a few skills including Gust, Shockwave and Meteor Shower. In essence, the only ele skills that the ele has to stand still to cast are Meteor Shower, Churning Earth and Fiery Greatsword. Apart from the greatsword (which should be cast on move imho), those abilities would be overpowered if they were castable while moving or instant cast.

As for the whole “you can’t hit stuff with staff” discussion, ever considered snaring your opponents first? Because the ele is rather good at that. Besides the weapon skills, 3 out of 4 elite elementals have some form of snaring, you can rig arcane skills to snare, there’s a glyph that gives you a chance to snare on each hit, a signet, traits, etc.

There are other ways to get shards too. Fractals, orrian jewelry boxes and laurels for example.

VOLKON.1290:

How about a Hobo-tron plushie in the BLTP?

No, how about a Hob-o-tron Finisher move?

He could jump on a player and then say something like:

You-had-better-find-a-new-job.

It seems to me that the answer would be in giving the Living Story a 3-week rotation. That would give the staff time to polish up those loose ends we constantly seem to fret about, while destressing the players who feel constantly rushed into having to complete stuff OR ELSE!

Basically, even though it may sound very hippy, the game could benefit greatly from a deep, relaxing breath.

Also, reading the Snaff comment, has anyone considered this may be one of those early Sylvari that Kudu experimented on?

Wouldn’t be as cool as a Mursaat in disguise, but it’d make her…acceptable.

Also, why aren’t we talking to that tree to find out more about her?

Funny how the ‘dislike Scarlet’ thread is almost 3 times longer as the ‘like Scarlet’.

Think the main issue here’s that everything is so predicatable, that when it finally did happen (machines run rampant, Queen gets attacked) people weren’t entertained. Like spoiling the end results of a sports game you recorded to watch later.

Did you notice that the Hob-o-tron and Faren were the most liked bits of the new story? That’s because they were actually new…

neon.4863:

They are pretty easy for a well-geared level 80, but without a group poorly geared lowbies are pretty much screwed out of the Pavilion (if they weren’t already because of the 5+ invasion requirement when they’re all spread out in level 25+ areas).

Not that it’s impossible for a lowbie to get help from a level 80, of course, but when you call it soloable, remember it’s not soloable by everyone.

Then I have a question for you:

“Why would the lowbies want to get back in?”

They get way more loot during the invasions than they do in the Pavillion, and if they can’t solo the dungeon, they’re unlikely to win the Gauntlet anyway…

Scarlet is everything I dislike in a Sylvari, and then some.

However, the Hobotron is awesome!

The Sylvari is perfect on paper, but in the dungeon she’s an extreme pushover.

Your friend just doesn’t get the profession. No worries, not many people do. Those that do know most complaints are way over the top (and having been on both sides of the fence, I can say it’s not nice to hear you need to shap up to play ele, but sadly I have to admit it’s true).

Agree with the OP. You have to work to make the ele work. The profession is a direct extension of your skills as a player.

Why would you want chill if you already have an ice combo field, an ice elemental elite and some random skills to makeup the gap (if the projectile combos don’t do that first)?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Whats this “stupid OP” build? Guessing D/D?

That’s the flaw in your reasoning. You’re looking for a build, when you should be looking at player skill. In the right hands, an elementalist is awesome (yes, even staff in duels) but it’s not because they have overpowered builds.

And in general: elementalists aren’t healers, nor are they meant to be. Healing is just another one of their many tools.

Reikou.7068:

Now we have cannon that says Sylvari are indeed smarter than Asura.

Sylvari are immune to Dragon Corruption.

Sylvari are able to glow…

I think its pretty much set that in Tyria, Sylvari are indeed the master race.

You forgot a few things:

-They can predict the future (or at least their tree can).
-They’re among the best blacksmiths in the world (Norn, Tengu and…no, not a Charr).
-The first magical sword they make can cleanse an entire continent. The first magical armor they make is inpenetrable.
-They’re the foremost expert on undead and Orr.
They get to lead the pact, but suprisingly also appear as seconds in many of the other organizations.
-The whole ‘curious, rookie, emotions are complicated’ thing has been dropped entirely. They’re now noble paladins that know all, can all and must be seen by all.

It may have been a bit more enjoyable if it weren’t for the rediculous ‘passed all 3 Asura colleges in record time’ while also being Sylvari.

That’s just lame.

Durzlla.6295:

I personally LOOOOOOVE Scarlet, why should every villain need to be super cereal? I think it’s more fun when they’re a total loon.

Then I’m missing the joke, sorry.

And for everyone being kitten about all the stuff she supposedly completed, even that asura thinks those rumors are full of kitten. So why are you believing them? And if they were true, so what? She could be a prodigy, it’s not really outside the realm of possibilities especially since she’s a Sylvari and can kinda be born with an obscenely large amount of knowledge..

Because she’s a Sylvari, and Sylvari in this game in general always outshine the other races. Asura are smart? Sylvari are smarter. Norn can drink? Sylvari can drink better. Charr can fight? Well, a Sylvari that doesn’t see himself lead an army does it better. Other racers become undead, but of course not Sylvari. Other races don’t want to work together, but Sylvari ‘will make them see reason’. And when it comes to brilliant blacksmiths, we get Norn (logical), Tengu (logical) and…well, a Sylvari because he apparently created an inpenetrable plant harness.

Sylvari seem to always outshine everything else, and quite frankly, I’m sick of it. The whole ’can’t grasp emotions very well’ bit was lost somewhere along the road, with only Seiran being a decent character. The rest are just one-dimensional Superman-clones.

AWESOME! The best content since release makes its triumphant return!

The gauntlet is nice. Little buggy, but the concept is good. Pity I can’t acces it for a few days now…

Any lore with Lord Faren in it is awesome!

Katran.9186:

Invasions in 4 letters.
Zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerg.
(In a bad way)

Lol.

You make it sound awesome yes. Unfortunately, to me the experience is mostly auto-attack for 45 minutes straight, complimented by whining in the map chat about things not going well enough.

Danomeon.3201:

This isn’t a zergfest, it requires coordination.

To me, the gameplay difference between a zerg of 20 and a zerg of 80 is minimal…the whole ‘invasion’ is still 45 minutes of mostly auto-attacking.

Unless she turns out to be a disguised Mursaat, the background story is utter garbage.

Then again, ArenaNet can’t be THAT bad at story writing can they? I mean, the human starter stories were a lot of fun…

Massive zergs…because auto-attacking for 45 minutes equals fun gameplay…

Sorry, but this patch is not for me. I’ll be glad once I can finally get back into the Gauntlet again.

Larkir.6502:

ThiBash.5634:

Yes, and WHERE are they?

Read what the living world “quest” box on the right of the screen says..

Unless an event is active, that’s completely unclear. And judging by the map chat, I’m far from the only one.

Apparently, you get a notice ingame after several minutes.

Finding the content seems to be getting HARDER each patch, not easier…sheesh…

EDIT: Sorry about that. Just find that ‘uberSylvari’ a major buzzkill. The only thing that’ll fix it is if it turns out not to be a Sylvari…

Yes, and WHERE are they?