I really want to know what Anet wants to do with WvW. How do they picture it in their heads? Whats the plan here? For example why should there even be a buff?
If you want a vision of the future of WvW, imagine a boot stamping on an outmanned server’s face — forever.
— George “Lolwut” Orwell, WvW Balance Consultant
All CC should have an immunity period of like 2-3s after using to avoid being constantly knocked down even with stun breakers and stability.
Yep, the game definitely needs diminishing returns and soon. Chain-stunning is a fact of life in most fights now.
They could give everyone stability. (This happened in LOTRO PvMP, except through consumables everyone had to equip). Or they could just give you a short immunity (which I believe they did in SWTOR).
[…]
We all agree that PvE population is much bigger than WvW or SPvP. The question here is, how did it get that big? I can guarantee at least 40% of the current PvE population came from WvW. They all left the WvW scene due to lack of developments and balance. Big scale fight was what drew players from all sort of game to GW2 because it was the only game that offered it. That was WvW. If people wanted to SPvP they would go LoL or DOTA, I know I would. If they wanted PvE they would go play Hello Kitty Online (hehe).
[…]
I can remember pre-launch and even afterwards when WvW was the most dynamic part of the game.
Forum posters had to say they were PvE’ers when asking for advice, because it was just assumed everyone was here for the WvW. WvW’ers were by far too the most ahead in terms of theory-crafting and understanding the game.
What happened?
The penny dropped. It became apparent WvW was designed (either intentionally or through poor execution) as an Arena for zergs. Culling was a major, major issue. Other fundamental game designs like the downed state and the AoE limit reduced skilled play, and made things frustrating.
In my opinion the real drop-off happened about late spring. The WvW forums went totally south, with most of the smart, theory-crafters disappearing, leaving mostly feeble posters. I can only assume it was tied to the AC buff, that gutted any PvP or GvG competition in objective-taking (the central focus of the game). Randomized match-ups were just another nail in that particular coffin.
The Ascended bait-and-switch had its effect too. Most MMO PvP does have some kind of gear grind, and it would have been fine if GW2 had that too. If it had launched with it. But doing a 180 two months in just makes your playerbase not trust you. This just compounded the rash of unfulfilled promises in WvW. (People waiting for WXP were completely underwhelmed when it was introduced).
Interesting point too about driving people to PvE. Guilds have to keep their people active, or else they fall apart. Many, many have in GW2. But for WvW’ers there aren’t many options until next year. So you do some WvW, and go through the motions in other parts of the game until you can jump ship.
Your post is 6 months too late.
As the responses to the OP indicate, healer and tank players have already left the game. Only the DPS are left.
And what do you get when you only have DPS left? Zerg city.
(Except for WvW, where if you have a 15+ person guild group you can have a Trinity of Tank Hammer Warriors, Healing Water/Blast Guards and Eles, and Necro DPS’ers — only available to the elite though).
Good question.
My hope is not until ESO is released.
But seriously, Ascended armor would be far more work to design than trinkets or weapons, as the stats on armor are fundamental to builds and traits.
So it will all depend on when they started designing the armor. If it was at the time of the November Ascended bombshell, it might be close to being done. But if they completed the other gear first, I would guess January 2014.
Armor doesn’t take a year to model. If I were on a full-time wage, I’d be able to pump out quality armor sets based off of concept art each week, for each race and armor class. Since I’m not though, I take much more time for my clients. See diagram below:
The issue isn’t the visual models, but all the possible stat combinations that go on the armor. These stats in turn interact with everything else in the game: runes, builds, traits, weapon damage etc.
It’s ye olde balance issue.
Good question.
My hope is not until ESO is released.
But seriously, Ascended armor would be far more work to design than trinkets or weapons, as the stats on armor are fundamental to builds and traits.
So it will all depend on when they started designing the armor. If it was at the time of the November Ascended bombshell, it might be close to being done. But if they completed the other gear first, I would guess January 2014.
Someone said:
Let’s pretent that the 400k concurrency number is from launch…well so what? Are you saying you can name an MMO where the bulk of the population doesn’t play less over time? Do you think ANY MMO has more people a year after launch than on launch day concurrently?
I’m not going to get into the middle of this cat fight but actually if you would recall, Warcraft actually gained subscribers (paying mind you) over the years. It increased year over year and only after cata and the 10 million mark has it subsided. Most would consider its current population of 6 million a success yet here we are talking about 400K active maybe at best and 3.5 million copies sold.
Look, not going to pee in the wind here but I do find it rather interesting that people ask “do you still play that game” (e.g. GW2). I really don’t know how it fits in the public space but for me, it is only really WvW that I care about and it is pretty much dead in regards to return on investment (playing time mind you).
Anyway – Figured I’d throw that out that at least one MMO grew. The others while good failed because they tried to measure success like the two ton heavy thing…
Actually, you’re right WoW did grow. But at the 1 year mark where we are now, it had less sales than Guild Wars 2 does now and it didn’t grow by that point to it’s high point. So how do you know what Guild Wars 2 will do in the same time period. If Guild Wars 2 has two or three years of updates, how do you know it won’t grow?
More to the point, Eve, also considered a successful MMORPG just managed it hit 500,000 subscribers…I think it was last year.
The fact that WoW was mega succesful at a time when there was virtually no competition and made a name for itself means what exactly?
EVE isn’t just successful because of it’s numbers, it’s successful because gamers, whether they play EVE now or have played it, respect EVE and CCP. They cater to a niche and they serve that niche, and serve it well.
I’ve tried EVE once and wouldn’t play EVE, it’s just not for me, but you know what? I respect it, because it’s not trying to be everything to everyone.
How many books or movies,or any medium really except MMO’s, do you know that cater fiction/non-fiction/science/fantasy/drama/comedy/horror/suspense all in one volume?
Developers in general need to stop making games that appeal to “everyone” because there’s no such thing as “everyone”. WoW was the only one to do this, and it was popular because of it’s polish and there was very little competition for it for years.
GW1 strength was unquestionably it’s PVP, and that’s been sidelined in GW2 not only for PVE but PVE that’s poorly written, poorly delivered, while the real meat of the game, WvW has been tossed in the backburner for a year.
Invasions, Rift does it better (and fits in their lore). Personal stories, ToR does it better.
GW2 needs focus, and less fluff.
One other point to make about EvE is that they actually listen to their player base.
When EvE had “Monoclegate” and tried to introduce an expensive cash shop (where Monocles sold for something like $99), the players staged a mutiny. Many quit, and EvE reversed their decision and removed the shop. And so EvE continues to grow.
What did Anet do with the backlash against Ascended gear? Double down against it and introduce more Ascended gear.
Ascended gear might lock in their existing player base, who can’t take their equity out of the game and so will do the grind. But why would anyone else come here when you can get better progression elsewhere?
Doubtful. How long have backpieces been out and we still can’t buy them in WvW.
As has been made clear recently, WvW takes second fiddle to funneling people into sPvP and PvE.
sPvP because they feel they can make money off of sponsorships, and PvE because that is where it is easiest to impose grind and sell cosmetics.
And once again history repeats itself. What killed DAoC was Trials of Atlantis, which introduced similar PvE grind for RvR gear.
I’m afraid this could begin the low, slow descent of WvW into bad MMO PvP.
And yet, here you are.
If you’ve moved on… why are you still here?
Most consumers who have been saddled with a defective product (perhaps through a bait and switch) see it as their duty to warn others of dubious practices on the part of business owners.
I commend this upstanding citizen for his zeal in protecting his fellow customers.
That’s most likely because GvG guilds are the hardcore WvW guilds
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.
It’s true. GvG guilds are the hardcore guilds.
Other dedicated WvW guilds (like ours) that don’t GvG understand why there is a GvG scene. Because Anet gutted WvW competition.
Also, why do you think there is a lack of PUG commanders now? Because the dedicated guilds who provided them don’t want to deal with hostility like this.
And be careful what you wish for. If the dedicated guilds leave, WvW will die. It will still be there as casual content for PvE’ers, but as a serious game mode it will stagnate and stop living.
Sacrx says it best, ANET harms WvW to funnel you into sPvP, to get more buzz around sPvP, to get more sponsors, to get a bigger eSports seen. The fact is, that GW2 will not be the eSport ANET wants it to be and ANET should rethink their strategy….
This is jut terrible tunnel vision on the part of the devs. Turns out that WvW is the kind of PvP that Anet’ customers want to play, not sPvP; but Anet just refuses to acknowledge this.
From what Sacrx says, it looks like it’s going to take some people leaving the company for this tunnel vision to be resolved.
Apparently leaving is what it took for sPvP to finally get non-Conquest game modes — 1 year later.
But WvW doesn’t have a year. It’s competitors are launching in 6 months.
GvG matches create way more community buzz and enthusiasm then sPvP ever will. Many WvW guilds aspire to play GvG because it is the purest form of PvP in WvW. Guilds are normally larger than 5 players so sPvP is pointless for many guilds. WvW Guilds are a large portion of the community.
GvG caters to a WvW guilds who want to test their skills vs other guilds. To me GvG is the PvP of WvW. It is something I thoroughly enjoy in this game.
I did a GvG last night. The 60 minute matchup was the most fun I had in weeks. There is nothing else out there like it atm. If Anet was smart enough they would try to cash in on this before somebody else does.
If GvG dies I am willing to bet that many of the community’s best players and guilds will be leave the game.
Also the best theory-crafters behind the PPT game are moving over to GvG.
On TC, one of our best, who helped TC rise from mid-tier to tier 2 on PPT, recently moved to an EU server so he could theory-craft GvG’s.
This is where the excitement is.
Also, remember that GvG’s arose because of reduced competition caused by 1) the AC buff, and 2) randomized matchups. League play, again because of low tier vs high tier matches, will further encourage GvG’s, and discourage PPT, for those who want competitive fights.
But at the same time, Anet is setting out to undermine GvG’s with the Bloodlust buff. Yet, the huge advantage Bloodlust gives high tier servers will also undermine the PPT game.
So where does that leave us other than a giant cluster-kitten with no GvG and no PPT modes?
A PvP game with absolutely no competition (except dueling siege).
How did it come to this?
Just wanted to confirm this is the case.
We have to craft the new Ascended Weapons?
They said they’re not going to do it, even though I never saw an explanation why. But then again, why is a commander tag , something that is 100 gold a pop, character bound? Why are party sizes in WvWvW limited to 5 players? I could go on.
The game isn’t just unfriendly to alts, it’s becoming unfriendly to players period.
Haha, player-unfriendly. How true!
5 man party limit (and other system like 5-man AoE limit) come from balancing the game around sPvP.
GW2 launched with high hopes that sPvP would become a breakout e-sport (since cruelly dashed).
Just go do a few fractal runs to get some of the vials of mist to make a back piece. It is not hard. What is hard is getting say 250 armoured scales after that. But creating a back piece this way will be quicker than waiting to get laurels for what ever cost they stuck on them IF the ever added them to wvw vendor.
I did a few fractal runs, got 7 vials…np
Having to do any PvE for WvW gear is just lame though. And having to do a dungeon is even worse.
Now with the addition of Ascended Weapons, there is one more piece of BiS gear you can’t get through WvW.
Who comes up with this kitten?
In the spring I’ll get ESO, and I’ll play it as long as it doesn’t feel like a job, but I won’t be bitterly angry at Zenimax.
If you think ESO has no farming, you are in for a big surprise." Almost everything there involved farming" (from closed beta friends)
I get that, but Zenimax hasn’t been telling us that they’re going to do anything different. They haven’t been shoving “You don’t have to grind to get to the fun stuff” down my throat for a couple years.
Truth be told, I’ll also be getting it because I’ve been playing TES games since Morrowind, and because I have several RL friends who will be playing ESO no matter how much I’ve told them they should play GW2. Granted, I’ll probably burn out on ESO sooner or later, but what are the odds I’d still play GW2 on the side/after I’m done? Each new round of ascended gear makes that much less likely.
But the difference in ESO will be how they treat alts.
There, your main character is essentially your alt, because you can equip almost any skill in the game (except for some class, race, or guild specific skills).
So while GW2 grind makes alts unviable at the highest levels of WvW, in ESO, if you want your heavy armour wearer to experiment with healing, or stealth, just equip the weapon and have a go.
The system could actually balance need for MMO grind with end-game viability of alts.
The problem is that Anet views WXP as a proper character advancement system.
Does any in WvW actually share this view? Most people just see it as some siege-buffing perks.
Who cares? Ascended items are made for those people who are only looking for raise their stats, not improving their builds. People who were really interested in playing with builds and alts have been progressively leaving this game since 15th Nov and specially now with ascended weapons (and ascended armor coming).
If they were interested in offer us build variety, gear would be cheaper and diversity would be greater. But it’s just the opposite
Yep, Ascended Weapons were the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Ascended Trinkets you could sort of tolerate, because they were kind of on the edge of making a difference. And there was always the hope that Trinkets would be the end, and no more Ascended gear would be introduced.
But they went and did it. So if you are a theory-crafter, build-maven, find another game.
People panic too much and in the end it was for nothing.First of all for 12 months we received only 6 Ascended items.Which is not what i would call a gear tread mill.Gear tread mill is when you have to upgread your armor every 2 or 4 months.In GW2 we don’t have such thing.
Second thing that i find funny is that Anet stated Ascended will be the last tier of gear.So WTF are you talking about OP?Endless tread mill?!?!?Are you kidding with me?Now when Ascended weapons were introduced people started to panic again.Come on people calm down.It’s not such a big deal as some try to make it.Fractals are no even uncapped yet and the differrence in stats is no so high than exotic.People in no time will have their Ascended weapons.
It is the last tier. That’s tier. Not level.
When they raise the level cap, you will have to grind out Ascendeds all over again.
Why are there 144 different stat combinations for Exotic trinkets and only 13 for Ascended?
Obvious answer: Tiering traits and skills (BOO!) didn’t narrow the amount of possible builds enough for ArenaNet’s tastes. Limiting the stat combinations on Ascended items funnels players into yet fewer viable builds, thus reducing balancing headaches just a wee bit more.
That, or perhaps sheer incompetence.
I would actually put my money on this. It’s abysmally sloppy that Ascended isn’t even worth building because many of your builds aren’t supported by the stat sets :/
Yeah, it’s actually incomprehensible that Ascended doesn’t provide all the same stat combos as Exotics, which it is supposed to replace. How hard can that be (it doesn’t require new skins to switch some stat text or flags).
Maybe it is connected to the coming trait update.
But then again, Ascended was introduced in an absolute last minute rush, so perhaps all the man hours are dedicated to introducing it for all the slots before stats are padded out.
Interesting puzzle though.
So a company that said literally thousands of things before launch can be called on five of them.
You keep trotting some iteration of that phrase out, Vayne, and you keep missing the point: one of the key concepts the game was marketed on was the idea of horizontal progression, without gear grind. They said it over and over again. And then they trashed the idea.
If I had known the game would turn into a “gear grind, chase the shinies so you can chase more shinies” game, I would not have bought it.
No, I don’t think it was one of the key concepts the game was marketed on. In fact in thousands of videos it was mentioned a handful of times.
Dynamic events are what this game was marketed on. Personal story was what this game was marketed on. Vertical progression quotes are few and far between in comparison. They are important to you, personally, so you latched onto those few mentions but this isn’t big big new. People trot out the same three quotes. In five years of marketing, a handful of quotes doesn’t make what this game was marketed on.
Iteration, on the other hand, was mentioned in post after post, after post. Go back through the old blog posts and see how often iteration and iterative process was mentioned, and even an entire blogpost was devoted to it. It was in virtually every post by arena net for over a year.
No, it was clear throughout the pre-launch marketing period there would be no end-game grind. (To the point where people were even complaining about that before the game even shipped).
They even had a TM’d slogan for it: Play Your Way.
So a company that said literally thousands of things before launch can be called on five of them. Some would call that a pretty good percentage.
Others would say that people are being too judgmental and focusing on the negative because it doesn’t fit their idea of what should have been done.
I think Anet, over all, have gotten it right. I think they got the ascended gear wrong, but not wrong enough for me to dig out two, three year old quotes and try to hold them accountable.
Bringing out those quotes won’t stop ascended gear. But it will derail the issue against vertical progression, because reasonable people will look at what you’re saying and remember the time they said something that didn’t work out the way they wanted it to.
If you’re against ascended gear, talk about that, not something that was said 3 years ago.
Or someone else will just bring up the quote about iteration and how Anet has said publicly in the blog post how they try things and if they don’t work, they’ll change them, even complete systems if they have to.
But when those 5 things are the core of the game, we are talking about a central issue.
It’s like a used car salesman promises you your car has an engine, among other parts. But when it’s delivered, it’s only empty under the hood.
You ask him, hey, where’s that engine you promised me? And he says to you: I also told you it had power windows, A/C, dual airbags, satellite radio and a sun roof. Why are you calling me on that one little thing? Aren’t you being unreasonable?
This is one possible solution to the problem of alts and Ascendeds (where because of time-gating and RNG, it is prohibitively time-consuming to gear alts).
There is no question GW2 launched as a very alt-friendly game. Exotic gear and leveling xp could be obtained in a relatively grind-free way. That change drastically after launch. However, it may be possible to salvage some of that original promise.
The proposal is that once an Ascended slot has been filled on one character it becomes progressively easier to fill that slot on other characters.
The best way to do this would be to establish a system of blank precursors for Ascendeds. Blank precursors would then be turned into the Ascended item of choice (while adding whatever other resources — ore, shards etc — that are needed to get the grind time right).
The blank precursor is where the main time-gate would be (with the purchase token still being laurels). However, since it is a blank precursor, and not the Ascended item itself (which has stats, useable by only certain classes etc.), it would be easy to reduce the time-gate for each subsequent alt who needs it.
The best way to do this is that each alt, when they reach level 80, gets an heirloom token that would count for so many laurels, but could only be spent on a blank precursor.
Either the heirloom token could be at a static amount for each subsequent alt (say 75% of laurels needed), or the amount could increase for each subsequent alt (say 50% then 55%, then 60% etc.)
There are some obvious objections to this, most importantly “welfare Ascendeds”. But then the “welfare” argument has been made about the whole game, which was at launch based on sharing of resources, reduced grind, easy gearing up and so forth.
It’s not too late for Anet to institute a system like this, before attitudes like “welfare Ascendeds” take root in the future, and make it impossible.
Colin Johnson plans for this to be the last tier of gear. Exotic was just to easy to ascertain and anet had collectively come to the decision to try at it again. Googling quotes doesn’t help your cause. We all know what they said and they know what they said.
If exotics were too easy to acquire, why not focus on that then? Work the problem. Dont come up with a solution you know will enrage lots of players. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to see a few steps down the road with this one.
Work the problem, dont change the situation.
I don’t believe exotics were ever the problem. Colin was either mistaken or being disingenuous. The quotes from the AMA show that the issue is the gap between exotics and legendaries.
That’s interesting. Why would the gap matter between stat gear and cosmetic gear?
Only because not enough people grinding for that cosmetic gear, I assume.
Then why didn’t they add Ascended as cosmetic gear to give people a lower bar to shoot for?
We’ll never know, but I assume they panicked and lost faith in their original vision of the game.
I’ve been involved with customer service for a long time, and I’ve seen companies I work for fail and succeed based on their level of customer service. Interwebz gaming is no different. Customers will always migrate to where their needs can be better met.
I’m curious to know if Anet has ever considered having volunteers for filtering through forum suggestions, ect.
This is so important. And I know Colin Johansen has said in couple of interviews, that MMO’s are “software as service” i.e. a consumer service product.
That idea seems completely lost on the WvW developers though. All the recent design decisions seem to go out of their way to frustrate the desires of their customers. They are just lucky it is almost a captive audience, as there is little competition for this game mode.
Now maybe they’ve calculated their PvE/casual WvW’ers are their better customers, and those are the ones they are going to cater to. I’ve never seen that work in any PvP game though. They all need the dedicated (or “elitist”) layer of committed players.
If they do alienate this group, WvW won’t be worthy of any future design. (But it could well continue to exist in maintenance mode as extra content for PvE’ers).
…
Thanks for the translation. You’d figure being a part of forum communities for nearly a decade would help me understand posts like… that.
And no, Dyno, that’s not what I’m saying. Not wanting a gear treadmill =/= “wanting anet to hand me my gear for not doing anything”.
I do have my disagreements with your points as well, Irrodesia (I read your huge post in that other thread), as well as some of the people swinging that old pre-release quote from Colin around like it’s holy scripture (they said we’d all have NPC sidekicks before the game was released too, guys). I can see where you’re all coming from, but I really don’t see ascended weapons as in any way unattainable for casual players such as myself.
If they were to put in a gear treadmill — an actual gear treadmill, as opposed to what some of you guys are trying to redefine the term to entirely — I’d have my pitchfork and would be marching right along with you, especially if that gear treadmill occurred in such a way that made it time gate content like dungeons a la WoW. But a gear treadmill is not what this is; ascended gear is (apparently, judging from the interview) merely what Anet had planned exotic gear to be on release.
EDIT: To clarify, I’m not saying that people opposed to the time gating on ascended gear or even ascended gear in general should simply shut up about it; I’m merely suggesting that you guys stop strawmanning and misinterpreting the issue. ANet’s probably not going to listen to people that don’t even know what a gear treadmill actually is (yes, if you’re calling ascended gear a “gear treadmill”, you don’t know what that is), but they may listen to people who feel that the requirements and time commitment for getting an ascended weapon are too steep for casual players and pose solutions for solving that issue.
It’s not a “gear treadmill”, in the traditional sense. Traditionally it would mean you are constantly getting brand new gear that has more powerful stats.
They don’t intend on adding any more tiers after Ascended for one simple fact, they don’t have to.
What they plan on doing instead is, as time goes on, players will be upgrading their Ascended gear through infusions and the like for more stats. By their definition a ‘low power curve’.
So in reality it is a gear treadmill in disguise.
Does that make sense?
They have their blinders on.
They will get new gear to grind every few months (how did ANet put it, every 3-6 months like in other games) and that piece(s) of gear will take as long to get as whole tier set in other games to aquire.
When all possible avenues in ascended tier are exhausted, depending on what will they develop, it will either be time for expansion with level cap raise so it will obsolete all previous gear, and if that wont be ready new tier will be released.
What they said so far is they DONT intend to stop with vertical progression – aka gear tradmill.
This is a good point.
There may be no new tiers.
But if they raise the level cap, that means you still have to regrind the top tier (Ascendeds) all over again.
I can see where Bloodlust was added in response to players wanting the Orbs to return.
I can see where players on DB or FA wanted to go up against BG/SoR/JQ, but not players from BP, YB or CD.
However, I can’t see the new league season as a response to anything that the players wanted. Except for a BG/SoR/JQ matchup, we know who is going to win the current matchup five seconds after reset.
I’m still waiting for the solution to stacked servers and night capping.
Hopefully Bloodlust is a mechanic that stacked servers will need in order to win in a league where the score is handicapped.
You can sort of guess why the League was introduced. It appears to be a response to dwindling competition caused by the randomized matchups and the AC buff.
The devs can’t really go back to the old tier system. (Where you competed week after week in your tier to get enough PPT to go up a tier). So instead they try to reintroduce competition externally with the League structure and its rewards.
Can’t see how it will work though. Most people have stopped caring about PPT. I don’t see how they can get the enthusiasm back.
If you want the buff to make an impact on WvW warfare in general, why not make it so you take 15% less damage from siege for each 3 capture points you control? Siege Wars are bad enough with tons of people hiding inside their keeps and towers rather than coming out to fight. Plus, it would make it very valuable to take before attacking the more important objectives, like well defended fortified keeps.
This is the best idea I’ve heard on the issue.
Agreed.
It also seems strange that Bloodlust buffs stats, when the WXP abilities are all about buffing siege.
If buffing stats is so important to get people to WvW, then why does WXP not buff stats? They don’t, so clearly the devs believe buffed siege is a motivator.
So, if seige buffs is a sufficient WXP motivator, why can’t it be a sufficient Bloodlust motivator?
Colin Johnson plans for this to be the last tier of gear. Exotic was just to easy to ascertain and anet had collectively come to the decision to try at it again. Googling quotes doesn’t help your cause. We all know what they said and they know what they said.
If exotics were too easy to acquire, why not focus on that then? Work the problem. Dont come up with a solution you know will enrage lots of players. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to see a few steps down the road with this one.
Work the problem, dont change the situation.
I assume that is what the karma nerf is partly about. Limiting people’s ability to store up karma for Orr temple exotics.
Yep.
And one other thing that is forgotten is that Arrow Carts used to be buffed early in Beta, until they were nerfed by BWE 2 or 3 for exactly the reasons people complain about them now.
As has been said, current design choices appear to show a poor understanding of WvW as it is actually played, or even the history of past design choices.
Speaking just for me- I think that the people who rushed to 80 as fast as possible, missed everything in between and then farmed Orr, come from more traditional MMO’s where the “endgame” is the holy grail.
I understand that they were disillusioned by GW2 but honestly how many of those people do you think are still here?
Personally I think they caught the shiney train to all the other games out there since then.The thing is, I also don’t think Anet had a choice back then.
Now is a different story though because they do have systems in place and the resources and assets to keep content fresh for those who constantly want new stuff.
Yet despite a very loud outcry – we now have even more Ascended.
Arguably the least creative, least fun and most boring alternative
As for chasing the money- personally I have never bothered, that is why the most gold I’ve ever had is less than 30. I don’t care because I can get what I want and have fun playing.Just from my personal experience:
I belong to a very small gaming community in my country.
A bunch of us started a GW2 thread back in April last year.
We all joined the same server and we all see each other in the game.
That thread has never dropped off the front page, until about a week ago.
The last post was mine.
Since, I have seen one person in game- once.I realize this is just a small example- but it leads me to think that more people than just a couple, play the game just for fun and don’t appreciate being lead around by a to do list.
Some people just like to play games.
Some people just like to play games.
So true. About the time GW2 started to go south (for us this was the AC buff in WvW which destroyed small group play), our guild moved on to Steam in a big way.
Steam has been absolute Godsend in keeping us together until we can be dedicated to another MMO (as WvW fans you probably can guess what that is).
There are so many different F2P or cheap games on Steam, in so many different genres, that everyone in your guild can find something to play together. And the social networking functions they have built in are just amazing. I would recommend all MMO guilds join.
Does anyone else feel this way?
I felt this tonight when I logged into my alts.
It really felt like I was taking them out for the last time. That all these guys I wanted to raise up and make fully fledged characters at level 80 would now be put out to pasture. With no realistic way to kit them out in Ascendeds, I know they would just be a drag on my teammates in WvW. So everything I had planned out for them is gone.
I didn’t play Star Wars Galaxies, but I read a lot about how they changed the game from something special into just another game to bring in a mass audience. In a way, I feel the same sense of mourning those players did.
R.I.P. Guild Wars 2
(You can read about the Star Wars Galaxies NGW here).
So all of you people that complain about ascended in wvw, you don’t kill up levels right? I mean, that would be just hypocritical. You also make sure to party your enemy and make sure they’re wearing the appropriate gear so that you’re both on an even level right? Do you at least make sure to ask them how many hours they have been playing and their estimated skill level?
Wait, you don’t do this?
Then stop complaining.
By all means, deride those offering solutions to Ascendeds in WvW.
But let’s be clear: they’re trying to save the game.
When full Ascendeds arrive, WvW is going to be like every other MMO PvP game out there, where long-term grinders have an absolute advantage over noobs, and those who don’t put in the same number of hours flipping keeps etc.
The great thing about WvW was that end game gear advantage didn’t exist. This let you concentrate on strategy, skilled play, trying out new builds, or just spending hours defending a keep for no great reward.
Now it’s just run of the mill PvP, though really the only contemporary game offering fleshed-out RvR. That’s going to change in the Spring when competitors start arriving.
I know, why can’t everyone be as good as you are? It’d be better if they didn’t play the game.
Unfortunately, a mechanic that was geared towards casuals (downed state, rallies) actually makes the game more hostile for casuals.
Just another example of poor design in GW2. I know Anet tried to think outside the box, but this is one point where it was fail.
I think the main argument is that the maps are so small, and zergs can move so fast, that zerging up still may be the most efficient way to cap/defend those points.
This depends of course on using scouts, and some stalling bunker builds to prevent the cap until the zerg arrives.
So a skill that is meant to make you temper your skill usage is making you do that and you want it nerfed?
I believe others might say working as intended, is it OP? Well it has been nerfed once, I suppose it could be again.
Retal promotes face rolling zergballs, AoE damage does not. You are countering what already takes a good bit of setup, like ele AoE, with a faceroll use of abilities. Retal makes for boring meta and thus boring WvW.
AoE sure does encourage faceroll zergballs. Heard of the 5-man AoE limit?
Get in a group of 6 or larger, and play the odds.
It’s funny. WvWvW has been the same for an entire year except for some new abilities. The same mechanics for the most part are the same. It got old after 3-4 months and TONS of players left the game completely. The forums here are riddled with people who don’t want any sort of change….. let’s face it… you won’t quit because of the following:
1. GW2 is hands down one of the best PVP/WvW games on the market right now. No other game offers this sort of combat/performance and balance.(sure it has its issues but every game does..)
2. It’s free.You will not see massive xsfers to servers… do you want to know why? cus its expensive. You may see a one Xsfer by some guilds, but that won’t last. It’s just too much gold/gems.
The League will eventually get to the point the game is already at.. the top servers on top fighting one another and the rest followed suit.
You people need to deal with the change or quit. But we all know your not quitting.
Actually, that’s completely untrue. There have been massive changes in WvW since launch. Here are the main ones:
1) Removal of culling. Game-changer. WvW before and after were almost different games.
2) AC buff. Opening salvo in Anet’s self-induced Project Kill Your Own Game. Drastically lowered PvP competition in WvW and lead directly to the rise of GvG’s.
3) Randomized Matchup’s. Part II of Project Kill Your Own Game. Even further reduced competition. Began PPT’s descent into irrelevance. Cemented existence of GvG.
And in the near-future we have these changes coming:
4) WvW Leagues: Project Kill Your Own Game Part III. PPT will fade into obscurity and who you are actually fighting will cease to matter. WvW will become all about the GvG and open field fights.
5) Full Ascended Gear. Not necessarily Project Kill Your Own Game IV, as it may stabilize gear treadmill hampsters as the PvP population. But is a complete 180 on WvW as it was at launch. It is now full MMO gear grind PvP.
If it’s really a 10% increase, then I guess I got my answer. This game is turning into a gear grind.
Apparently you’ve never played a game that is a gear grind if you consider Gw2 to be anywhere near a gear grind.
Typically a gear grind game completely locks you out of content if you don’t meet certain levels of gear. Gw2 doesn’t have that. Gear and a proper build does make things easier, but you can do all content in greens/exotics and some even in blues. Heck, you don’t even have to be max level to finish most of the dungeons in Gw2.
The game is very casual as far as gear grinding goes.
No, it doesn’t lock me out but it puts me at a continuous disadvantage in an environment which is supposed to be about skill.
Agreed. Gear in grindy PvP games is never about locking you out.
Why? Because grindy PvP games are based on out-gearing your opponents and then killing them based on that advantage. That is, they need a steady stream of under-geared noobs that are not locked out.
I don’t think it was GW2’s intention that WvW end up like that — it is after all the lame model in every other MMO PvP out there. But, since they broke the Manifesto and introduced a grind treadmill, it was inevitable this would happen.
First problem. Spending 15 RL minutes on a treb pressing one button. I’d rather be homeless in the winter time than do something that mind numbing. At least being homeless you could feel something, like being cold. Pressing one button for 15 minutes gives one finger feeling and the rest of your body jack kitten. Lol god this game is just a haven for people who don’t like to think.
Yep, the only people who can think and also like siege are map commanders and siege leaders. These people are fully engaged at the overall strategic level (like Napoleon or something).
For those who just want to fight other people, they’re just an impediment.
If it’s really a 10% increase, then I guess I got my answer. This game is turning into a gear grind.
Yep, WvW is turning into the standard MMO PvP. Grind for an advantage, and ossified meta. And GW2 started with such hope.
The real problem here though is that the original gear/stat system was designed around easy to get gear. Now that end game gear is time gated by ludicrous amounts, good luck changing your build.
Just more evidence Ascendeds were tacked on in a panic.
Yeah. This is REALLY bad for WvW. Once Ascended armors come, those without Ascended gear will be way behind.
I can see the forum posts now about going into WvW for the first (and last) time — being one-shotted by an invisible thief with full Ascended gear (weapons, armor, trinkets) and the Guard Killer line maxed.
If Ascended gear were easy to get (like Exotics) they would still be a bad idea, but with the way they are now, with the heavy amount of grind necessary, they are an absolutely terrible addition to the game.
Together with the terrible proposed implementation of Leagues, WvW is in for a rough future.
Our guild just hopes ESO is out by the time Ascended armor is introduced.
Part 1: Is Ascended Gear Required?
First of all, there are people doing naked runs of dungeons (absolutely no armor, only weapons), there are people soloing AC/CM/TA at their intended levels, without access to Ascended or even Exotic items. I’ve seen a level 24 Necromancer doing 30+ fotm, it was fun and “unique”. Overall, Ascended gear, and really ANY type of gear isn’t required at all, provided you have enough skill to compensate for the lack of it. I doubt Ascended gear can make much of a difference in large scale WvW battles or sieges either, there are siege weapons to be used, and I’d take a properly built (skill-wise) team mate using greens (for example a support Guardian with a Staff) over a bs Thief in a large scale battle.
As I’ve said in multiple posts, if you are doing a variety things (like, everything in the game) you can get an Ascended Weapon without ever doing the same thing twice.
ascended gear kittens up wvw. it’s not debatable. if it was pve only, i wouldn’t probably care as much—i would simply not get the gear.
such stupidity. no, you’ll have to do the same thing twice, three times, or 10 times, or 500 times. think about all the combinations of stats. dumb. (and amount of weapons)
No it doesn’t. Ascended doesn’t make as much of a difference in large scale WvW battles, sure it affects roamers and duelers a lot, but not large scale combat. Profession/build matters, gear does not.
It sure will affect large scale battles once full Ascended is in WvW.
Not your PUG zerg vs PUG zerg, but any Guild zerg that knows what they are doing.
That’s Anet’s intention too. It has to affect WvW, so people will grind for it.
Welcome to Project Kill Your Own Game Part III.
Part 1: AC Buff
Part 2: Randomized Matchups
Part 3: Bloodlust stat buff
It has effected our server, in that more people are waiting for ESO.
The removal of the orbs was one of the best things to ever happen to WvW. Just below the removal of culling.
But of course, Anet brought them back.
As the AC buff, and random server matchups indicate, they have no idea how their own game is played.
Exactly.
All League rewards are essentially “Coverage Trophies”.
(Which granted is a bit of a skill. It is actually pretty difficult to lure off-peak guilds to your server).
The finisher is like a trophy you pass on to the next winners? I like that a lot. Cool execution.
Yeah, it would be great if the trophy actually rewarded skill.
But it rewards one thing: coverage.
People were complaining about coverage winning since launch week. At the time, the Anet response was: deal with it.
Now you are reaping the fruits of that decision. It makes it impossible to implement server-wide rewards in WvW that actually recognize skill. (Unless being able to lure off-peak guilds to your server is a skill).
Sadly my money is that they will be a large advantage. This is based on how anet has handled things in the past (poorly). Being forced to pve to enjoy wvw is a bad idea.
My goal is to eliminate the latter scenario. And I promise to do as much as I can to meet that.
A better overall solution is to have WvW-only gear.
People rail against PvP-stats, but there is a reason they exist. It is still the most efficient way to give PvP in a PvE game its own gear progressions system.
I realize the horse has left the barn though. Anet has chosen casual WvW’ers over the dedicated.
EDIT: The PvP stat could be easily added through infusions.