Guild Wars 2

vespers.1759:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

vespers.1759:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

vespers.1759:

fractals and pvp obviously.

PvP doesn’t use Ascended gear, my friend.

PvP uses the stats from ascended gear. 2 rings wasn’t a big deal, but having all 6 accessories will make a difference.

i’d also be willing to bet there’s more ascended gear coming.

It makes a difference? But everyone is tuned to the same gear level when you get in, isn’t that so?

not in world vs world.

. . . you should have said World vs World. That’s why there was confusion.

No, the Ascended gear boost is not as important as you make it out to be. It’s one part of the whole, but the rest of it makes up for that difference.

Myzer.9403:

Shootsfoot.9276:

Answer the question, please.

Agony resistance? What about roaming in WvW? That little extra is important. You are basically gimping yourself in that respect if you don’t “choose” to do it.

Agony Resistance I’ll give you, though so far that’s sectioned off in a little corner of the game I never have to deal with, and neither does anyone else.

Roaming in WvW is subject to so many other things which feed into it that I’m not even going to get into it. Suffice it to say, if you are roaming WvW alone and have to fight more than one person, you are better off running for cover instead of fighting. And even if you have to fight one person, don’t take them on their terms, take them on yours.

vespers.1759:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

vespers.1759:

fractals and pvp obviously.

PvP doesn’t use Ascended gear, my friend.

PvP uses the stats from ascended gear. 2 rings wasn’t a big deal, but having all 6 accessories will make a difference.

i’d also be willing to bet there’s more ascended gear coming.

It makes a difference? But everyone is tuned to the same gear level when you get in, isn’t that so?

Shootsfoot.9276:

As you understand it.

Do you understand you get the required gear for those levels WHILE leveling Fractals?

Nope, I don’t level Fractals. I may poke it with a stick now and then and Swampland Fractal reminds me of why I hate it. Almost as much as I hate the asura.

Notably, if you check other topics, you’ll see I have argued that Ascended is only necessary (strictly speaking) for higher levels of Fractals. The effectiveness of it in other parts of the games is either irrelevant or debatable.

vespers.1759:

fractals and pvp obviously.

PvP doesn’t use Ascended gear, my friend.

I always assumed the globe was either:

1 – older than the recent changes to Tyria.
2 – modern art masquerading as something useful.

Shootsfoot.9276:

Myzer.9403:

Shootsfoot.9276:

Myzer.9403:

For all the people who say “you don’t have to do them!1!11!!1”

Where is the choice? Anet tries to pride themselves on “choice” but why introduce something that is this important without much of it? Why is the only way of obtaining the best items in the game boring? “I can’t wait to get home so I can get my daily done so I can get an ascended piece!!” Said no one ever. What if you have two or more characters? If anything Anet should at least enlighten us on how they plan on addressing this issue.

Tell me the event you have to have ascended gear to complete, please.

Why wouldn’t you want the best gear in the game?

Answer the question, please.

I’ll answer for him:
Jade Maw within Fractals level 21+

As I understand it, Agony is an unavoidable part of this fight, so Agony Resistance is required.

Where is this there were invulnerable ranged mobs?

Sarrs.4831:

No really. Here’s how you make Ascended items far less painful to attain. You make a vendor in the wuvwuv starting locations who sells each Ascended piece for 500 Badges of Honor.

BAM. Done. I have fixed the game.

No, you’ve possibly broken the heck out of it at that cost. You can’t arbitrarily slap a price on it, there is a curve it should at least partly conform to. Or else you run into issues.

Also, it’s probably taking so long because it’s on the end of the design once everything is done so they create the NPC and don’t have to go back and patch his inventory. That’s how I’d do it.

The Magic Wombat.5170:

Again, please explain how I can take a stack of 5 plates of food, and combine it with a stack of 3 plates of food, to produce a stack of 8 plates of food, but I can’t take two stacks of copper harvesting sickles (say with 12 and 13 uses) and combine them into 1 stack with 25 uses?

Because the database handles the two items differently. One is a counter which goes up and down showing stacks, the other is a counter which only goes down which shows remaining uses.

And, I am merely pointing out that stating the reason why we can can’t combine stacks—because it measures uses left on a single item—doesn’t hold up when looked at with the other items that do allow stacks to combine. I cannot combine a 1-use axe with a 1-use axe to make a 2-use axe, but I can combine a 1-use pig dinner with a 1-use pig dunner to make a stack of 2 1-use pig dinners? How about I simply make a stack of 2 1-use axes?

Interesting logic, and it holds up. However, that’s not how the items are written.

The simple fact is the lack of being able to combine stacks has more to do with selling gems than anything else.

People continue to go back to this as though it’s an unassailable fact. Really, it’s more about inventory management than “must get them to buy gems”. Even the Diablo 2 example above was full of inventory management issues. (Including “why does the book only have 25 pages?”)

ThiBash.5634:

There used to be this game, where you could have teleportation scrolls, or buy a teleportation tome where you could stack 25 scrolls. They were automatically added to the tome when you found them.

Must have been a very poor game because I’ve never seen it re-used since.

By the way, do you know which game I’m referring to? It’s quite old…

Yes, and it was also full of fun acceptable breaks from reality. Like a swarm of mosquitoes or locusts dropping plate mail

Chuo.4238:

Simplest answer – so they can sell you extra inventory and bank space via the gem store.

Better answer:

So you have a reason to spend for bags with more slots. General consensus last time the topic came up is that your starter pack (20 slots) and four 18-slot bags should be about all you ever really need. You could probably get by with four 15-slot bags if your money is tight.

Remember, Risen present in Orr are usually long-dead corpses shaped by Zhaitan. Outside of Orr you will see charr, asura, norn, humans, quaggan, krait, hylek . . .

I get the feeling you don’t see dredge, jotun, or skritt since they don’t have settlements near the Risen. So they’re not very available. Same for the centaurs, though I wonder about the southeast Kessex Hills sometimes.

ThiBash.5634:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Because the charr bring the war machines, and the asura bring the high technology.

And both races would have made better blacksmiths. Why does a Sylvari have to make the top three? It feels way too forced.

The asura would not make better blacksmiths. They’d make better metallurgists, perhaps. But not blacksmiths. And the charr don’t seem concerned with fine detail.

Be fair. The humans and norn don’t have technology of their own.

Actually they do. But the defense of Fort Trinity of course come from Sylvari. I’m thanking Anet on my knees that the humans were at least allowed to contribute to the airships.

The charr build the airships, I understood. Also, worth noting, nothing humans have can be considered as advanced as the other races. The best they have are trebuchets which . . . while impressive . . . were retired in favor of cannons for a reason.

People keep using these words. I don’t think they know what it means.

You’re missing the point. It’s not that I want the Sylvari to not be good at anything. I’m annoyed by the fact that they’re good at EVERYTHING.

They’re good at everything? Well, fine, but are they the BEST?

As for Mary Sue, I know what it is. It’s basically a Superman without kryptonite (and even with, Superman is borderline Mary Sue at times).

No. No it is not. Google “Mary Sue TV Tropes Wiki” and start reading.

As for Trahearne, especially after he gets the sword, he can do anything. He’s both extremely smart, a powerful spellcaster, and although the story forcefully tries to emphasize his inability as a leader, nowhere does it show that he actually is. In fact, there’s only one mission that I know of where one of his decisions backfires.

He’s also physically frail and tends to hug the floor a lot in massive melee situations, and his tactical sense comes largely from listening to options laid out by the leaders under him and deciding which one looks like it will work the best. Not that this is a bad thing, it’s generally how leadership works anyway.

And of course, he cleanses the whole of Orr. Nobody can do it, except this one guy with a sword. Thus giving him godlike powers.

The sword is the integral part to doing that, backed up by the fact the character has worked on rituals specifically to deal with this. So, really, “nobody can do it, except the person who’s put in the study time and has the sword”. In theory, anyone in the game could . . . if given Caladbolg and Trahearne’s notes, do it.

So to sum things up: the Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption, the can see into the future and they have godlike powers that can cleanse an entire continent.
How is that NOT Mary Sue?

1. The sylvari cannot see into the future, and nor are they privy all the time to the Pale Tree’s insight. Otherwise, no Faolain, no Nightmare Court, and no sylvari would ever be surprised. Ever.

2. It’s established in the mission where Trahearne performs the ritual that it will not be an immediate fix and still requires Zhaitan’s defeat to take hold. So while the purification is begun it will take time to finish.

3. There are weaknesses to being sylvari, which run deeper than simply there for the sake of being there. But we can run into what they are not immune to. Sylvari are not immune to poison or disease. They can be permanently injured or incapacitated. The only thing going in their favor is an apparent immunity to dragon corruption. Though it should be noted they die rather than become corrupted so it’s not as though they are immune . . . they simply don’t leave anything for the dragon to use.

4. They are not beautiful by standards of other races, not even close. They are not universally loved so anyone who doesn’t like them must be evil.

Here’s why it’s not a Mary Sue. It falls under the heading of "Mary Sue as ‘Protagonist I Don’t Like’ " heading in the page I alluded to above (but won’t directly link as it probably violates code of conduct).

ThiBash.5634:

The main reason I dislike Trahearne because after you meet him, the entire story seems to revolve around the Sylvari and how great they are.

Trahearne introduces the best blackmsiths? Norn, Tengu and…Sylvari (seriously, no Charr?).

Because the charr bring the war machines, and the asura bring the high technology.

All races can be turned into undead? Well, all but…Sylvari.
The greatest scouts ever? A group of Sylvari.

These two are related. But we know the truth . . . the greatest scouts ever are charr. “Well we scouted ahead and found some resistance so we leveled it and came back to let you know it’s all clear now.”

What knows the future? Only the great tree of the…Sylvari.

Well, and the Six, but they don’t tell.

The pact technology? Combination of Charr, Asura and…Sylvari technology (plants are techno yo!).

Be fair. The humans and norn don’t have technology of their own.

Which Destiny’s Edge member is the only one that knows keeping the group together is for the greater good? Of course…

She just wants some friends who are crazy in ways that aren’t trying to drive her nuts too. (Faolain, I’m lookin at you.)

Seriously, all Sylvari but Seiran are terrible Mary Sues

People keep using these words. I don’t think they know what it means.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

For sale: Logan Thackeray’s sword. Never been used. Only dropped once.

Also for sale, Snaff’s Monocle. Slightly chewed. May smell like dragon.

- Logan Thackeray, undeniable proof hair care products exist in Tyria.

- Eir: “You get one asura killed and suddenly everyone can’t stop reminding you about it.” Logan: “Tell me about it. I leave one time and suddenly I’m a-” Rytlock: “If neither of you shut up, I’ll see if you can keep it up without tongues. And I might take the coward’s anyway for good measure.”

- Little known fact: while in other worlds the slang “whipped” has a very particular definition, in Tyria it’s referred to as “being Logan’d”.

- Queen Jennah is descended from a long line of Paragons. Want proof? Watch how fast her shout makes Logan move.

Cloud.7613:

… and seems to have a way of soaking up the credit like a sponge.

Citation requested.

interpol.2397:

Gems have always cost coins have always cost gems have always cost coins. If I buy a pick at 2s and mine with it until 0 gathers, it would cost the same as doing 100 gathers costing me 2s. There is zero difference.

There is a very significant difference: when the fee is charged to the player. You might say it doesn’t matter. I might agree with you. And yet there are doubtless hundreds of people prepared to call us all crazy.

So, saying that Infinite Tools would lead people to claim p2w is the same as saying Finite Tools would lead to people claiming p2w. I don’t see anyone crying out because of any BL Tools, as a matter of fact, and those are literally from the gem store.

I may be wrong, someone check but the Black Lion tools have fewer than normal uses to balance them out. Also, you only get them via random chance from a Black Lion Chest. Which will require a key to open and there is a large chance you won’t get one. In short, you don’t see anyone crying out about them because they’re not a significant part of the game.

Your option is a significant change and a significant part of the game. It also would allow anyone to “reload” their pick with Gems. (I think instantly.) I don’t know if you were aware, but there are still a non-zero number of people who draw the line from Cash to Gems to Gold as a proof that there is a “pay to win” already inherent in the game.

Which game have you seen the system used in? I’d like to check it out and see what the consensus on it was.

It was a mobile game I tried for a time, and while I can look up my entire purchase history I cannot recall just which one it was. I tried a lot of free games with “premium currency for X” inherent in them. The way it was handled, if I recall right, was you got a limited uses per day for free, but you could pay an increasing amount of premium currency to go beyond it, starting at a low amount and picking up rapidly. And of course, you weren’t guaranteed what you needed. For reference, this would be about as often as you get a gemstone, dye, or “hidden cache” off gathering currently.

Soon as I crunched numbers realizing you’d be pretty much playing with the daily limit free for several months to get anywhere with it, and even paying you run the risk of not getting anywhere . . . well you know the rest.

interpol.2397:

1. How is that any different from the current system? You can use an Ori Pick to mine copper ores – that would cost more than mining it with a Copper Pick. If someone wants one of each Infinite Gather Tools to use in appropriate areas, what’s the problem?
2. Cost is the same. For one, I doubt there is anyone running with 0c at any time. And how would one be able to gather if they can’t afford tools to begin with? Per gather cost would be exactly the same as it is now, you just wouldn’t need to find a merchant if you ever ran out of tools – you can keep going.

3 and 4 are really reaching, to the point where I don’t see how it’s at all relevant. How would having Infinite Tools change the fact that you can buy gold with gems and vice versa? I never said they would be a gem store item.

You’re not paying attention. Those are four steps from your proposed choice to where players would become very upset. Not four distinct points to discuss on.

. . . and yes, I’ve seen this system in use once before. It really wasn’t all that good.

interpol.2397:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m going to ask you to excuse me but this is an idea which feels inherently wrong to impose on the players.

That’s fine, but I really don’t see what the issue would be. The price for gathering would be exactly the same, and if someone doesn’t want to gather at all, they just don’t go to the nodes. I can’t understand what the “imposition” is. It would actually be more convenient.
No one is obligated to gather.

I should also add, I have zero issue with the current system – I just believe it would be more convenient to never worry about a tool running out of gathers. One could argue that it would make gathering more “mindless”, I guess.

I’ll explain in four steps.

- Gathering Tools cost an increasing amount of money for the rarer materials, and instead of a one-time fee you have a continuous surcharge every time you use it.

- You cannot use it if your pockets don’t have any coin in it.

- You can buy Gems and turn them into coin.

- Forum touts this as proof the game is “Pay To Win”.

interpol.2397:

Personally, I’m not for stacking, I’m just trying to clarify how the stacks should logically work. I’m more for infinite-use tools that charge a per-gather cost equivalent to what that cost is now when we buy them.
I never calculated, but let’s say if a mithril sickle costs 200c (idr real price) and has 50 gathers, an Infinite Mithril Sickle would take out 4c each time you gathered – if you don’t have money, then you cannot gather.

I’m going to ask you to excuse me but this is an idea which feels inherently wrong to impose on the players.

Heinel.6548:

I actually do not find those quotes to be motivational at all. It’s just him actively trying to suppress his own nature by verbalizing a supposedly internal monologue. This is indication that he had outside influence and that he’s trying to learn to be not pessimistic, that’s a far cry from suddenly becoming in a position where he could potentially lead a squad, let alone a legion.

They’re not supposed to be motivational. They’re said to a handful of people and mostly in the presence of your character. This is not him assembling the troops and saying “One day I would have given up this as futile but now I carry on!” . . . this is him saying so in what amounts to a semiprivate location.

And if you actually study real leaders, you’ll find that most of them have strong personality and tend to show strong emotions often, and their ability to infect others with the same emotion is often proportional to their ability to lead others successfully.

Don’t make me Godwin you. I know it’d only prove your point, but I really don’t want to.

There are of course exceptions, as strategic leaders tend not to need charisma, but you won’t see them giving motivational speeches, and they usually require a strict hierarchy to already be in place and people have no choice but follow the chain of command.

No, they need charisma all the more, because their troops do need to trust them to avoid there being an “accident” and “please send us another CO who doesn’t have a rectally-misplaced cranium”. There may be a chain of command, but people don’t fight well for superior officers who can’t instill even a little trust.

Trahearne is supposed to be the diplomat who united 3 factions that has shown mistrust towards each other for as long as anyone remembers. Trahearne does not actually possess the skills to pull that off.

There’s the trick. It’s not just his doing. The Commander, which is to say, you . . . has to get that ball rolling as well by going “no, we need to do this together or not at all”. And that resentment fades from mistrust towards grudging respect the longer the orders fight together and see how well they can reinforce each other.

So it’s not just Marshall Trahearne saying “play nice kids” and them going “okay”. It’s one of the things I really find perplexing is that people seem to think the player character has nothing to do with any of this and it’s all put on Trahearne.

Edit: And just as you edited yours, I posted.

Anet basically setup a no-win situation with the way the story goes. There’s not enough supporting characters, and the ending is rushed. It shows. People complain. Hopefully the living stories will not have the same mistakes, and its cast should be more like GW beyond/ winds of change, and not in anyway resembles the mess that is gw2 personal story.

Yeah, we can agree on that. They were in a no-win scenario, or at least one which was going to be really hard to win. And honestly? I’m expecting the same out of the Living Story.

I’ll put 50 Silver down that no matter what they do with the Living Story characters they revealed, people are going to complain.

interpol.2397:

The point of stacking gathering tools would be that the number of gathers stack together, not the number of tools.

Not a difficult concept, guys.

If you have a pick at 54 gathers, and you buy a new pick of the same type (100 gathers), stacking them would give you 154 gathers, which is what should be displayed on the icon.

That would require them to set it so you can “overcharge” one tool, which can run into a lot of potential troubles if the item type is not set to allow that. And there would have to be an upper limit, where people would still be saying

“. . . why can’t I have more than 999 uses? I can use a real axe more than that, why not this fictional one?”

Mithion.1830:

Vayne.8563:

Because they’re not stacks. You don’t have 50 axes. You have an ax that wears down and is useless when you get that number of uses. You can’t stack weapon axes. You can’t stack the axe you’re using to harvest, because it’s 1 axe, that you eventually where down.

So the concept of sharpening the tool is beyond the realm of possibility? Let’s put a little common sense here. Thanks.

The Minecraft pre-release versions would like to say hello, and hand you two Diamond Swords with only about 10% durability left. What are you supposed to do with them? Well before 10/6/11 you could only just glare and use them til they broke. After that, you could combine them and get the uses plus some extra returned. And there was much rejoicing.

Now. As for your real-world logic? Tools are not just about sharpening, it’s about metal fatigue and wear which is not immediately apparent to the layperson. A knife can be sharpened for a long time, but severe nicks in the edge can’t be dealt with so easily. Nor can you really repair a crack in it, or corrosion.

Hammer heads can sometimes snap in half around the post, and you cannot just patch the two halves together and get a brand new hammer. It’s not even safe to use a hammer like that anyway.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

wait…. are ALL sylvari supposed to be emotionless?

cuz uhh….. like when the npcs are talking in beginning of Twilight Arbor…. they sound pretty upset about the chick who got eaten by the hounds.

sounds like THEY have emotions….. so why not Trahearne?

Not emotionless, but higher emotions are largely emulated far as I can reason. Far as I can tell the people at the front are also those who were touched (but not turned) by the Nightmare Court, so it’s possible that’s how Sylvari learn to feel horror.

I don’t have answers though. Far as I can tell, Trahearne’s are just subtly stated. So is Caithe’s most times . . . except about and concerning Faolain.

Heinel.6548:

For comparison, Keiran Thackeray from GW Beyond was also a good-for-nothing turned charismatic war-leader. That story was a lot more plausible because firstly, the guy likes interacting with people to begin with, secondly, he was motivated (because of Gwen, who was higher ranked than him, but didn’t have the magnetic personally he had), thirdly, he had the player hero who was supposedly the most well-known perfect embodiment of virtue blah blah who was his mentor, and fourthly, the events lead up to giving him the moment to shine in the war in kryta. This all give us much better context and most importantly a believable path, along with real feedback, that a character has indeed transformed. Where is that level of writing in GW2? Honestly I think GW2 is better off without the personal story in it.

Lieutenant Keiran Thackeray had a few things going for him.

- He was introduced one Wintersday as a side-quest which would happen meant to give Gwen some depth. And some humanity aside from "seething frothing ball of anti-charr hatred.

- He was further developed some time later trying to get her to lighten up and go on a picnic. By the way, that quest had the bonus of being very well written as far as his responses to various ideas pitched to him. His responses were witty, and human as the story finished.

- When the War in Kryta popped up, he also had some allies in the “Ebon Falcons” who were interesting as supporting cast. And the writing was of someone who had his heart kicked and was taking his mind off it by just focusing on something else.

- “Hearts of the North” was the capper on this. It was told from Keiran’s perspective so we could see, not just be told, what happened to change him. He was pushed into becoming a leader, and Gwen got to watch through the pool and accept that he became a better man than she gave him credit for.

In short, we were given a lot . . . a lot more with Keiran than with Trahearne. Which has been my major issue with him for a while. He needed more exposure.

Heinel.6548:

My beef with Trahearne is that his characterization is implausible. Charisma cannot be a hidden attribute. The entire thing about charisma is in the way one deals with and handles other people. If his personality is not outstanding, then at least make him physically attractive? Whatever that means for a plant… But to convince us that a sulking, pessimistic, withering necro that shows negativity at every turn and speaks like the a pre-recorded propaganda broadcast would also be an extremely well-liked leader with bffs all over the world? No amount of suspension of disbelief could make this fantasy sound right.

His negativity does get better, as does the pessimism.

I just wish the Sylvari . . . other than the Nightmare Court members . . . had a slightly different voice direction. While I can pick out inflection and emotional responses, they really are subtle.

When dealing with large amounts of people you should not attempt subtle, because there’s a high chance nobody will pick up on it.

I have encountered this problem with voice direction before, mind you, so I know this was probably something that sounded good to the people conceiving it . . . but it fell flat to the audience. And you don’t blame the audience for not getting it, you wonder how you missed it.

Farzo.8410:

What I think is annoying with ArenaNet is that most of their talk is ‘’We can’t talk about it.’’

I understand the reason, but it’s far too annoying.

I rather hear ‘’This is what we want to do, and this is how far we have developed this feature, we hope it will be something more like this than that.’’

Given the response they get in the forums, inevitably and demonstrably, from everything they do not being good enough or being an attempt to ruin the game . . .

I’d rather hear “we can’t talk about it” over “we would talk about it, but then you’d pick apart every word and ask us what ‘most’ actually translates to”.

Edge.4180:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

The rest of the list, well, you didn’t respond to them so I can only conclude you conceded them as being valid points.

Now who is trying to score points on whom? Didn’t you scold someone twice recently in one of these threads for doing that to you?

I did no such thing. And stop trying to score points on me.

Actually, it really wasn’t an attempt to score points. It was a “I’m going to assume you agree with me”. And I put it there in case you didn’t.

No, I didn’t cover the other specific events in your list because I know you’re unable to monitor the status of all of them on your own server 24/7, much less all of the servers, thus making the list rather pointless. The truth is, you have no idea how often those locations are being completed.

No, but I have seen them go untouched for long periods of time. Especially Laughing Gull. And even now Blood Witch is kind of in the “shunning box” due to . . . well, krait, underwater, and champion frustrations.

Cripes, I have yet to participate in Laughing Gull Island because it has been broken on my server every single time I go by there, and I drop by that zone a lot.

The way I understand it, what has to happen is the Risen Captain needs to be killed, the NPCs then need to get off the island before the event starts again from the top. But as I’ve gotten “LOL no” in response to “anyone want to take the Risen Captain?” . . . I just monitor it and sigh.

I spend time in Bloodtide for the Gold Ore and Aquatic Slayer. I need Gold Ore for some things (not Powered Rails, alas) and since there’s a large amount of water with Inquest floating around waiting to be killed . . .
. . . and I hate asura anyway . . .

Three for the price of one.

In no particular order.

1. Veteran Risen Giants. Why? Because they’re a pain to kill and I have to carefully balance killing additional mobs along with them. They throw down Grubs, which add to the problem of dealing with them. Yes, I can take them solo but they’re still a pain in my butt.

2. Hrathi Lancers. The charging knockdown annoys me, as do the blocking they do from time to time.

3. The Mossman. Stealthy, annoying, and makes the Swamp Fractal very hard to deal with once you have to get the wisps.

4. Champion Risen Covington Captain. Nobody wants to kill him, but to reset Laughing Gull Island he needs to die. And he attacks through floors.

5. Champion additional monsters at Claw of Jormag. Seems like nobody deals with them, and just lets them wreak havoc. Almost was present at a total wipe due to the Champion Goliath running around in the back.

I’d assumed they were recruited to produce weapons and work metal for the Pact.

Zenith.6403:

TwoBit.5903:

Sigh, just read through the topic again, this time not half asleep from work. Am I right in saying that no one thinks GW2 is immersive because they don’t think that MMOs can be? What’s the point of having lore then if you don’t expect the game to immerse you in it? I think it’s a truly sad day for gaming when everyone agrees that distilled mechanics and achievements are more important than aesthetics. I may as well go build myself a hamster wheel if I want to experience games then. At least that way I’d get some exercise.

- Being immersive is like telling a good story. Anyone can verbalize a sequence of events, but few of us can tell a story that is interesting and relevant. I felt I could momentarily connect to the personal story (thanks to great voice acting), but mostly it was like watching The Lord of the Rings with all the bloated pompousness and tropes.

You do know Lord of the Rings and others of Tolkien’s work are perhaps the codifiers for most of those tropes right? I can agree about the pompousness, though only because it was written as legend and myth. You can’t write in that mode without resorting to it.

Besides, this was not Lord of the Rings, it didn’t come close. It’s more like War of the Lance. (Not a slam on this game or War of the Lance; there’s just some thematic differences.)

Edge.4180:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I say unto you: Straits of Devastation. It is not uncommon to find it completely untouched as far as the three-front invasion scheme. It is not uncommon to find other Temples not taken, as well.

And that’s because it’s not at all uncommon to find the events in these chains breaking down in some way, making it difficult or impossible to complete them, which is why they keep getting patched. And you know this.

I agree Balthazar has lots of issues, owing to the complexity of those events interacting. Right now I have that situation framed in my mind as “why you should be careful about making things too complex”. But!

The other Temples I have rarely seen bugged. I’ve seen Grenth fail a lot but it’s not bugged, just difficult and full of people going “don’t tell me what to do!” in response to “Stay off the stairs! Kill the shades! And don’t stand in the red circles.”

The rest of the list, well, you didn’t respond to them so I can only conclude you conceded them as being valid points.

Edge.4180:

critickitten.1498:

No, you don’t find it fun. There are people out there who find it fun to play an event primarily for its rewards.

No, what you’re finding “fun” there is the reward, not the event. We could replace these boss events with me standing around handing a rare out to anyone that comes by and whispers me a joke, and you’d call that “fun” because you’re only there for the reward handout, not the experience. That’s the problem.

Not what he finds fun, if I’m gathering things he’s said in other topics. But for some people it’s worth their time and energy. Personally, I’d find both instances fun, the boss fight and the “find me, get a joke, get a rare”. But I’m weird like that.

critickitten.1498:

What you are proposing is nothing less than the death of most open-world events, because instead of rewarding players for trying to run content (as any good game does), you are punishing them for not doing it. That doesn’t encourage people to play, it encourages them to find a new game.

Holy over-exaggeration. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but 99% of the events in this game do not offer you a chest reward at the end and are continually participated in regardless. And yet the world keeps on spinning..! Where is your “death of most open-world events”?

I say unto you: Straits of Devastation. It is not uncommon to find it completely untouched as far as the three-front invasion scheme. It is not uncommon to find other Temples not taken, as well.

There already are some Champion events which people do not do. Champion Bandit Lieutenant in Bandithaunt Caverns is one that isn’t usually done. The Blood Witkittenessex Hills often goes untouched until a few people get bored and go take care of it. Gargantula in Harathi Hinterlands? Champion Risen Megalodon in two places. Captain Rotbeard. Laughing Gull Island.

Laughing Gull Island even has an Achievement for finishing it properly, and nobody does it.

Okay, I see what you’re talking about.

He’s still not a Mary Sue, the player character is.

TwoBit.5903:

@Tobias
He was a contrived Mary Sue officially stated by one of the writers to have been conceived to do whatever the game didn’t want the player to do. Contrivance.

Citation requested.

Honestly, though a lot of these complaints do potentially fall under “time/money constraints”. Remember, voice actors are not cheap.

TwoBit.5903:

• Dailies and the Reward System are arbitrary time-grabbers and gates

Lorewise, the Zaishen aren’t quite as big as they used to be far as I can tell. Nor as ubiquitous. Your complaint by the way does nothing to erase the point you make that they are arbitrary time-sinks. Even if attributed to some organization or individual . . . they’d still be that way and your complaint could morph into:

“So why is he/they having us do these?”

• Mundane and Generic NPCs

Same thing can go on in Skyrim or other games. Also, fleshing out more specific lines takes time and money. Which might not have been in full supply. So, yes.

• Guild Missions

Who’s assigning these guild missions to me?

The Guild Trek is handled through the Tyrian Explorer’s Society. The Bounties are not explicitly stated who is setting the bounties but does it matter too much? The bounties are picked up and you’re expected to cash in on them. Would you prefer some Cowboy action here? We do have Steve Blum voicing Rytlock . . .

• Achievement system

I’m not sure what your point is. Which mundane tasks, do you mean crafting, salvaging . . . what?
As for why? If anyone can successfully answer why my character should care about an arbitrary achievement score I’ll forgive the concept from ever being established. However, it is fun to have something to go “hey . . . I did that” for a few games.

• Why did this Skelk drop a breastplate?

Now you’re descending into nitpicking lil fiddly bits and crying about tropes which were old when the Elder Scrolls were yet to be written.

• Why is the writing so bad?

Not entirely related, but honest question. Really. Who conceived of Trahearne and where can I find him!?

The problem is not with the conception of Trahearne. It’s with the execution.

Okay, I read the thread, and saw this point was made but it bears repeating.

Single player games are conceived differently than Multiplayer ones. Single player games can be focused, honed, and shaped in ways that MMOs can’t be. Or rather should not be. In a single player game you can realistically predict things and if the player breaks something or unbalances the game . . . it will not affect anyone.

I present to you as Exhibit A . . . Morrowind. A predecessor to Skyrim and somehow I understand it feels much bigger despite covering a smaller area. But importantly, in this game you could work with your Alchemy skill to create potions which would make it possible to win the game within 20 minutes for sure, but I think the record was within 15 minutes. This would be an unacceptable problem in an MMO.

Exhibit B. There are ways of fooling the training system, in Morrowind and I think in its successors. “(Skill) Destruction” could be made to self target and reduce your skill by any amount. If your skill went low enough you could train for free to a level most trainers could put you to . . . and then the spell wears off and you keep the new gains on top of what you had. Who needs Grandmaster trainers? Again, if this was left in an MMO? Heads roll on DAY ONE. Single player game? Eh, so what? It only helps and hurts the player’s experience.

This is why you can’t take a single player game and hold it against a massively multiplayer online game in comparison for “how to do games right”.

killcannon.2576:

Fun and challenging game play would be immensely unpopular, gotcha.

Stop trying to score points. Again. I don’t care, and nobody is keeping score.

Fun and challenging play for one person is frustrating for another. Several people I know adore Nethack, while I have a cautious respect for the technical achievement it represents. I don’t like it as a game however, because it is punishing and brutal.

Other people find other games fun and/or challenging but I don’t want that gameplay brought into Guild Wars 2 because it would simply not work as well. And it would annoy the living crap out of them.

I’ll lay my card on the table here. The best form of boss battles I’ve experienced which tread that line between difficult to the unskilled and fun for the skilled lies in the Monster Hunter franchise. Say what you will about the RNG and grind of that game (I’ll probably agree) but the battles were more often than not superbly done.

I personally would enjoy fighting the a Claw of Jormag not unlike wrangling Kushala Daora, of a Shatterer like Fatalis, Or smaller dragon champions like a Rathalos. Or in the Crystal Desert having something like Diablos to fight in a Dynamic Event. There are two problems with these fights though.

1 – They require a lot of positioning, dodging, blocking, and can be very much a war of attrition. Especially since your recovery inventory is limited. In Guild Wars 2, it’s not limited and nor can you limit it to only four people . . . unless it was a dungeon instance or Fractal. So it wouldn’t balance out at all well.

2 – When you get skilled enough it still becomes routine. There are people who never manage to beat some of the monsters, but Nargacuga? One of the more notorious “wake up calls”? I used to shred him for the lulz, and it was easy when you knew what to do. Same trouble in Guild Wars 2. When the enemy has been understood the challenge drops sharply.

I played one game . . . one game . . . where big boss monsters could crash in at any time in certain parts. It was fun/interesting the first few times. Then it became highly freaking annoying.

Same series also handled big boss fights happening in a variety of locations. Surprise, it wasn’t quite entirely random but predetermined places where there was enough space to fight in. To do that would require GW2 to have been built with that idea and there would have been semi-obvious “boss battle locations” people would have scoped out to watch.

I don’t want them trying those here, I don’t think a translation of those fights over here is a good idea because it would be a immensely unpopular change.

killcannon.2576:

Not trying to score points at all. Been posting about the dragon “battles” for quite awhile and why they are broken in there current form. I’m too lazy to copy pasta earlier posts.

I haven’t seen a single game suitably handle this problem. Well there was one, but it was so patently unfair I don’t want it emulated.

Jemmi.6058:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

If we got rid of timers, then people camping out for the events would do one of two things:

- Stop camping out there in real-time, but leave an alt there and wait for a buddy to tell them it started.

- Camp there 24/7 and wait for it to start.

Some would, not all. The amount of people willing to do that is drastically lower than people who go ALT+TAB google Dragon Timer, select server – ALT TAB back to game, map to next dragon – repeat.

You’re correct. Some would . . . and I’ve actually seen people abandon at Claw of Jormag because it wasn’t going down fast enough so they could go to Tequatl or Shadow Behemoth.

Sadly, I don’t think there’s much you can do to discourage them.

killcannon.2576:

Then also change the location of the events, make them “Random”…gasp.

Stop trying to be clever and think you can “score points” on me. One, I don’t care. Two, you shouldn’t either.

The events have specific locations for a long laundry list of reasons, and these are now nigh impossible to change without serious reworking of the whole game landscape. On top of that, there is a not-insignificant challenge to having the fights change location while still being interesting and not having one encounter be easier than another . . . or more accessible . . . or some other reason people would do that event instead of the five others.

Variables and random chance are all fine and good, but they’re really not a friend to people trying to put together a large-scale battle.

If we got rid of timers, then people camping out for the events would do one of two things:

- Stop camping out there in real-time, but leave an alt there and wait for a buddy to tell them it started.

- Camp there 24/7 and wait for it to start.

Mystic.5934:

I would also like to see group events in other areas drawing you to the dragons for a final culmination. like several places have to complete events that push Dragon forces out and back CoJ into a corner, then he finally has to emerge.
this would turn it from “3 hours after last encounter +/- 30 minutes” into “an hour after last encounter, Dragon tries to recapture his land, is then forced out again from the completion of ~8 events in other zones, then emerges for a fight”, which might take all day or 20 minutes.
I’d also like to see Dragons move around the map like that Ancient Karka, and be less predictable, but I do know how hard that would be. it’s just silly to be able to stand in a specific place and spam ‘1’ without fear of death.

While I read this and my first reaction was “that sounds kind of cool” . . . I had to stop and think on it for a minute. And after thinking, I can see why this wouldn’t really work out. I’m pretty sure you can too if you take the event at the end you were comparing it to and remembering exactly how well that turned out.

This is a good idea. It needs a lot of work and refinement.

For the technical side of the game? No, no longer in beta. Most gamebreaking or crash issues have been solved with a few which are the result of massive numbers of players which most possibly cannot be replicated in a test environment. (Yes, you can stress-test network loads. No, you cannot have 200 people running around throwing pretty particle effects and keeping the game processing where they are, where their effects are, where the video effects for their skills are . . .)

For the story side of the game? No, not really, the problems with the story aren’t because it’s a beta. It’s because there was a problem at some point with implementation and direction.

For the content? No, the game was playable to the end without “stay tuned for part two!” at the end.

Mystic.5934:

I like the idea of having to kill a dragon to gain control of areas of the map. there should be a chest reward, and it should contain something in between how it was and how it is now (maybe 0.5 rares on average), but maybe also have it where the dragon takes back the map as events are failed (or would this encourage people to kill dragon and leave?)

We had that, it was called Straits of Devastation. Actually, we still have that. and it still often has major issues getting done at any given time.

Edge.4180:

I’m going to use the Shadow Behemoth as an example. When you arrive in the swamps you’ll find upwards of ~50 players standing around waiting for the event to start. Many of them will have been waiting for over an hour, competing against other players via the “waiting game” for a spot on the map specifically so they could do this.

Are they standing there because they’re excited about the upcoming event? Or are they standing there because they want some loot? We all know it’s the latter, and to any designer that should be the wrong reason.

Bad example. I knew people who did that event solely because it was “the only cool meta event they found”, and they liked the way the boss looked . . . there were a lot of people who did it just because of nostalgia from BWEs, much like I ran into people doing Shatterer for the same reason.

You know, it’s funny (and by funny I mean really sad).. the people who actually deserve the rewards are the ones completing the pre-events, not the ones pressing their auto-attack key and aiming in the direction of the Behemoth for two minutes. Because, when those pre-events start.. 99% of the people standing there in the swamp can not be bothered to lift a finger to help out with them. They would rather sit there and wait like a stump for another thirty minutes than spend two minutes moving outside the swamp and advancing the event.

And many of the people completing the pre-events are only doing it for the loot also, but are trying to get to the event faster by helping out. It’s impossible to tell motivation without really knowing the people involved.

Even then, they could just . . . lie.

We are rewarding the wrong people, and with the wrong things, and for the wrong reasons. Do not misunderstand me: I want to kill a cool boss and find a shiny treasure chest rewarding me at the end. But it does not seem like I can have that without having the garbage we have now, and if I have to pick the lesser evil I would rather have no chests and people only attending events because they’re genuinely interested in being there because it’s fun and they’re accomplishing something that has nothing to do with loot.

I confess, I’m one of the people who would do the events over and over again if there weren’t loot there. However, I also think the place would be devoid of people if there wasn’t some kind of bonus in it for them.

I can prove it too. Exhibit A is well and truly alive on the servers – go to an area where there’s a couple really interesting events with either no chest or no enormous chest. Say, south end of Timberline Falls. Or westernmost Brisbane Wilderness. The Blood Witch in freaking Kessex Hills. Usually, nobody is there and these encounters can be balanced for more than a few people.

Even in Orr! The southernmost part of Cursed Shore has two events almost always active that few people go do. The Champion shark and the Champion pirate captain. I go down there now and again and wouldn’t you know . . . always up.

Transistor.8746:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Transistor.8746:

Ok a lot of people seem to think I’m bashing the HoM reward system. I’ve put a clarifying comment back in the OP for people that can’t seem to read/understand what me and others in this thread are saying.

I have a strong suspicion that most of the people claiming I’m entitled have unlocked HoM rewards and somehow feel threatened. And the people saying the UI issue “doesn’t matter” are not really offering much in the way of discussion.

No, I have the full rewards unlocked and don’t feel threatened. I’m not sure anymore if you’re asking for the pets or want them removed from the UI (which if that happened, how could we choose them?) . . .

Bear in mind, “hidden” items still will show up on listings so really there’s a small slice of people relevant to this discussion at all. The ones who look at the greyed out portraits and go “I need to have that filled” . . . while the people who look at the actual listing and go “I need to have it all” aren’t going to get any help at all.

So, no, don’t feel threatened, do think you’re acting a little bit “entitled” to something you didn’t earn, but hey, to each their own. Some people consider their character incomplete if they miss an achievement, and bemoan about how they will never be complete due to missing Halloween and Wintersday.

Hey, ty for the reply and being constructive. To answer your question, my ideal solution would be to make the pets available in-game via rare spawn, some event-mechanic, etc. Unfortunately these have already been labeled a HoM-only reward and (very clearly by this thread) it would upset the people who earned them in GW1 to go back and make them available in-game.

My second solution would be to remove them from the UI. I have already stated the reasons for this.

I understand what you are saying that even if it was taken out of the UI, it would still be something unobtainable without playing GW1 and that guides created on the internet would still include comprehensive “collections.” I find it hard to believe anyone could have a problem with this somehow, but then again, I guess people are surprised that I’m having the issue I am having in this thread.

Thanks for backing down from that “trolling” accusation. It was a little snarky at the end but I really only want that bow so I can entice a friend who likes MLP to play

“I’ll give you this bow that shoots ponies. No, seriously.”

The description of “imagine if your fifth skill was greyed out” . . . you reached, but that’s okay. It’s your right to.

Frankly, while I can understand the frustration (I will probably not go digital deluxe because I’d like to spend my gems on other things if/when I purchase them) . . . I think it’s less serious than some of the other concerns floating around here. Guild Missions, Laurels, Ascended gear . . . I think those have far more teeth and impact than this problem.

And I think that simply removing them from the UI unless you have them would not solve the problems of completionists wanting the pets. They wouldn’t see the spots anymore but they know it’d be there. Waiting, lurking . . .

Transistor.8746:

Ok a lot of people seem to think I’m bashing the HoM reward system. I’ve put a clarifying comment back in the OP for people that can’t seem to read/understand what me and others in this thread are saying.

I have a strong suspicion that most of the people claiming I’m entitled have unlocked HoM rewards and somehow feel threatened. And the people saying the UI issue “doesn’t matter” are not really offering much in the way of discussion.

No, I have the full rewards unlocked and don’t feel threatened. I’m not sure anymore if you’re asking for the pets or want them removed from the UI (which if that happened, how could we choose them?) . . .

Bear in mind, “hidden” items still will show up on listings so really there’s a small slice of people relevant to this discussion at all. The ones who look at the greyed out portraits and go “I need to have that filled” . . . while the people who look at the actual listing and go “I need to have it all” aren’t going to get any help at all.

So, no, don’t feel threatened, do think you’re acting a little bit “entitled” to something you didn’t earn, but hey, to each their own. Some people consider their character incomplete if they miss an achievement, and bemoan about how they will never be complete due to missing Halloween and Wintersday.