Guild Wars 2

I’m hoping the Wintersday is a light, fluffy affair with less world-ending overtones as the last events.

. . . I’m sorry, who and what? I’m not as up to date on my companies as I should be, apparently.

Re: Ascended craftables?
I’ll note “nothing yet” and we’ve only seen rings and back pieces. One of which isn’t craftable at all (something I was a little perpleced by).

As for your question?

A: Not any more than the professions were of dubious usefulness depending on who you asked. I am actually decked out in handmade gear, mostly, but a lot of people consider it an unwelcome and unnecessary expense. In my opinion, crafting is useful primarily to fill gaps as you level up and can be useful once you have the skill and materials to do Exotic.

Mandrax.7342:

If they do that, they would be outright accused of Pay to Win methods, something all self respecting developers would want to avoid.

Not all developers have the luxury of calling the shots, though . . .

DarcShriek.5829:

Assassinin.4963:

Veltoss.9135:

My god people.. they added one tier of gear as a one-time gameplay improvement, why the kitten is everyone acting like this is the apocolypse?

The term “slippery slope” comes to mind. Many players here have years of MMO playing experience and they can smell rats from a distance. And they are sounding a warning.

Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy. Congratulations for losing your debate.

Don’t tell him. it’ll break his heart like when I explained the Gambler’s Fallacy to a bunch of people one day as they sat camping something on EverQuest.

Astralporing.1957:

So, using the same argumentation, we could also say that 90% of the positive posts on the late patch came from only 2-3% of the game population.

I don’t think anyone is going to say your logic is flawed on that one.

Well it would be the path of least resistance normally, but now? Mmmm, no. Too many people deciding not to buy Gems. Black Lion isn’t the path of least resistance if you’re boycotting it. The next method is . . . not recommended for anyone.

Me? I’ve been collecting data and trying to figure out where to go get my T6 materials (or T5 materials) when I decide to take the plunge. I have a few options, though I’ll need to make a conscious effort to not overstay my welcome in the spot.

There are, supposedly, other avenues they’re planning on rolling out “soon”. They described there was an intent to have them available through doing WvWvW content, but they were kind of cagey on exactly how if I recall correctly. Point is, they did say they had plans.

People are funneling themselves to the BLTC, mostly out of the sheer convenience. On the other hand, it’s possible to do the farming route so long as you don’t overdo it. I’ll need to check but I think I have not used any of my T6 Fine materials, 25 sounds about on target . . . except for Ancient Bone. Mad King’s Labyrinth was a nice place to get those.

There’s another Mystic Forge method, which is fusing lower tier items upwards. Much more predictable than what you said, though I confess to not knowing the formula off hand.

Mandrax.7342:

I’ll be as brief as possible…

Each mystic forge recipe requires 250 crafted ingredients, plus a ton of ectoplasm. There are two main ways to acquire these items, you either farm for them, or you buy them. Whilst farming for them, because of the sheer quantity required, you are going to hit the DR wall. You are also going to run into a lot of other people trying to farm. This means that it’s going to take a LONG time to get all the mats you need.

Currently, Potent Blood cost around 2s each and Ectoplasm cost around 25s each. This is no small amount of gold when you tot it all up. Only those with a lot of time to spare are either going to have the gold, or the time to farm the mats, and farm the dungeons. This means that those who don’t have the time have a choice, they either miss out on the items, or they look at spending real cash on gems in the cash shop to convert the gems to gold.

My theory is that Arenanet are adding this tier of gear specifically to fund future development of the game.

The reason they are releasing items only a few at a time is because if they release them too quickly, people will not have the funds to keep up. By releasing them slowly, people can spend the money over a longer period which means people are more likely to keep paying real cash for these items.

It’s not quite pay to win of course, because everything is available in-game, but it is almost a cleverly disguised version of it.

It’s because of this train of thought that I am 100% certain that we will see more tiers of gear introduced in the future. That is if all goes how Arenanet expects in terms of gem sales.

I could be wrong, but it does seem to make sense to me.

Hmmm. Doesn’t quite add up. I agree there is a high likelihood of “more tiers in the future” because it’s a nebulous prediction akin to “at some point I will get a promotion”.

However, the staggered rate of release makes sense for a different reason – there were almost no back items on initial release except the Guild Backpacks and the one thing you get from the Personal Story. Mad Memories was the only other option, which is why everyone who got it wore it.

(I used it also for light instead of carrying my torch out at night, too.)

So because the Back Slot was kinda . . . well, very underutilized they opted to release those now rather than later to allow people to fill that slot first since it was likely they may have missed Mad Memories (totally plausible chance, mind you) and thus were stuck looking at a Guild Backpack if they wanted high-level gear for their back.

Rings? Well, those were added into the mix because they can’t ONLY release back items, that would be silly. So toss in about a dozen rings so the amount of Ascended is a little more robust and you can get three Infusions instead of just one.

Also, while it is possible Gems sales could have been intended to go on the rise so they could be exchanged for Gold . . . it’s worth noting that is only the quickest way to get the cash needed. Another is to sell off raw Orichalcum Ore, or other T6 crafting materials you won’t be using for your chosen Ascended items. Which is how some people funded their purchases of higher gear already, come to think of it.

24 hours, I think. At most 36 since that’s roughly the time it took until I got back there and it was present.

No, I’m not in the advertising industry. That’s a nice try though, you can keep guessing.

I am not in the business of coercion, though I’m pretty sure you already decided that was a bygone conclusion. I understand methods of verbal coercion, true, but as a matter of course for what I actually do as my work. I am not in the business of “truth” as you perceive it, because I work almost entirely inside worlds of things which do not exist. To me, truth is something which can be outright proven (2+2=4, that the steak I ordered medium was in fact medium rare, or that the car which ran into me is the same one with the crumpled bumper and same color paint job as the paint transfer on my car) and not something which can be subjected to interpretations (you gave me a drink glass half full of ice when I told you I wanted it half empty, therefore you did not give me what I requested).

I’ll make you a fair deal though. If you tell me what business you are in, I’ll tell you what I do for a living.

Godorn.2931:

“If you want the truth? Guild Wars 2 is a flawed game, but it does not deserve 1/5 ratings. "

That is your opinion, and I am not here to discuss that. You have deviated from the point at hand to suite your argument rather than discussing the issue, which you obviously want to deflect.

You assertion that others should not go on a “campaign” to smear ANet because it is “childlish” is the point. Your ethics are irrelevant, the behavior of ANet is.

You attempt to coerce does not deviate from the fact that you have no ground to tell anyone anything in regards to any attempt to inform the public at large about the unethical behavior of ANet.

Nuh uh. I didn’t say it was childish, that other guy did. I think it’s foolish and dangerous. I have no ground to instruct you to do anything, but you also have no call to instruct (or if you prefer “inspire”) others all the same. You or your friend.

As for the issue, I did discuss the issue. I think it is foolish and dangerous to manipulate metascores to the extent that has been discussed with a cavalier attitude such as: “It might not be the guilty party getting fired, or worse it could be an entire game.” “So what?”

I am making no coercion attempts. I am not applying any force to stop people you are also not employing.

Orion.7264:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leonard.2867:

Aye, thank you for answering. So from your experience, why does one need ascended gear then? Why do we need +stats and anti-agony?

You “need” anti-agony if only to buffer your survival in case you can’t dodge in time. It’s a safety net, so you can be a little sloppy and not be wrecked.

The stats? I’m not sure. I think the +Stats are there because the Infusions may . . . may . . . be overall weaker than gemstones/runes/crests since the Agony resistance takes the place of a stat.

Agony resistance does NOT take the place of a stat.

. . . okay, let me clarify.

Gems have three different statistics which they affect. Infusions only have one plus Agony Resistance (thus far).

So a Gemstone (Embellished Emerald for instance) would give a better boost to what it was in. Except you can’t put it into an Ascended item, you can only put an Infusion in there. Which (thus far) is significantly weaker than the possible Gemstones you can drop into things.

Hence, it could be . . . it would be my way of design, in other words . . . that Ascended items have better raw statistics because their upgrades (Infusions) are generally weaker than upgrades for Exotics (Gemstones).

Galen Grey.4709:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

This reminds me of old, old Everquest and . . . hang on.

http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20020315
http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20020612

Yeah, this happened before in a game I played. Though it was quite a bit of a different game than Guild Wars 2 is, and the gear treadmill was . . . significantly more pronounced even as the first content patch rolled out for that game too. Come to think of it, there also was a whole lot of bugged things in that game. Though they usually denied it was broken until it was fixed; that’s where a phrase crept into MMO player language: “Broken as intended”.

Do you really believe that every company copies what every other company does exactly? If that where so dont you think every single game would be exactly the same?

Just cause something went in one direction in one game doesnt mean it will be exactly the same in every other game thats starts from the same starting point!

No, I don’t really think we’re going down the same path. At least I am hoping it’s not, to be honest. I liked that because, well, this sort of reaction about “The Vision” came to mind when people started with “The Manifesto is all-important”, which is strangely close to “design is law”.

Godorn.2931:

“It’s not the what it’s the how, Godorn . . . that’s his point.”

That is your point, and its is irrelevant. There are no shades of grey here. Either you tell the truth or you don’t. You can be an apologist all you want, that is your decision, but you have no right to tell others not to disclose the truth about the practices of a company and their unethical behavior.

I applaud them to go out and tell the truth, because if that is what they do then there is no moral dilemma except on the part of ANet.

People keep sticking labels on me. Troll. Apologist. Fanboy. That kitten ranger. I really wish they’d stop or just go to “Hey dullwit” to save time. You can even go for the uncensored version if you’re not shy of letting rip with F-bombs.

If you want the truth? Guild Wars 2 is a flawed game, but it does not deserve 1/5 ratings. There are plenty of things which can be perceived as “wrong” with it, I could start a list from gripes with design choices to nitpicks about lore. But it is not utter trash. At worst this is a mediocre game which is worth the $60 and about 70 hours of play.

If you want to say what is going on right now is unethical behavior . . . I don’t know, it must be unethical to change your mind about something. That’s an interesting idea, if I suddenly ran around saying this game was complete garbage after giving it vague lukewarm praise to this point, does that make me ethical?

Horrorscope.7632:

People now fear the reason why they lose in PvP is gear.

I like gear, I like better gear and I like different looking gear. However GW’s was sold on having balanced gear. Now I don’t want to get into the treadmill part of better gear. I just want to know why we can’t get the other, a lot of different looking gear? We want something to differentiate ourselves, we get balanced gear is a good thing at least to differentiate yourself vs the rest. But it’s boring how little variation there is from 1 to 80. That I know is a turn off for many. It’s like you took the candy and soda pop away from us. Take the candy, but I do get thirsty often enough.

I may be mistaken, but when I go to Heart of the Mists, my armor and weapons are replaced entirely and my gear I had in PvE or WvWvW is not there anymore.

If you meant to say “WvWvW” then that’s understandable, and possibly a valid concern. (I personally think it’s overstated, but that’s now more of a gut feeling based on personal experiences rather than something with solid fact.)

It’s not the what it’s the how, Godorn . . . that’s his point. My big problem with metascore manipulation is it can potentially bring about a stronger reaction than what was intended.

Raine.1394:

Galen Grey.4709:

Assassinin.4963:

But is there an OFFICIAL CLARIFICATION on this issue thus far? I afraid not. But no worry, the complaints will die down sooner than later (which I believe its the delay tactics Anet is using to tide them over this ‘crisis’) because those who complains but still cannot find closure to the issue would have left the game. I believe many of these players are having a fun time playing PlanetSide 2 now. Its a sad day for GW2.

The problem with an official clarification in my opinion is this issue has been so overblown and every single thing said has been jumped on analysed in detail and twisted to mean something negativite never intended that you’re not going to get an official reply before it has been vetted by a ton of people! No one is going to risk posting something that might be misinterpretted!

The issue hasn’t been overblown. The only thing I can suggest to help you understand the issue is to read the manifesto and the introduction of the Ascended gear piece side-by-side. If the non-sequitur doesn’t smack you in the face it’s probably best to just accept that some people get it rather than continuing to misrepresent the community’s reaction to the violation of the manifesto.

This reminds me of old, old Everquest and . . . hang on.

http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20020315
http://www.gucomics.com/comic/?cdate=20020612

Yeah, this happened before in a game I played. Though it was quite a bit of a different game than Guild Wars 2 is, and the gear treadmill was . . . significantly more pronounced even as the first content patch rolled out for that game too. Come to think of it, there also was a whole lot of bugged things in that game. Though they usually denied it was broken until it was fixed; that’s where a phrase crept into MMO player language: “Broken as intended”.

Andy.3950:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Andy.3950:

Missy.7356
This all comes down to added stats.. however small its still there,
Tobias Trueflight.8350
I beg you to indulge a question. These two items might possibly exist, so you tell me which is better.
+61 Power
+44 Precison
+3% Critical Damage
or
+44 Power
+61 Precision
+44 Condition Damage.
Take your time.

This post Tobias, explain this post.

It appears to be a post asking for a comparison of two different sets of statistics and a question about which one was better. The two things in question appear to be prefixes for Ancient Wood Inscriptions to be crafted onto one-handed weapons, though I might be mistaken.

I believe the question is a matter of how to weigh statistics which are obviously not equal to each other, so that you come to a conclusion of which is “better” and a request to please not rush to post “A is obviously better” without offering reasoning.

No, wait, I’m probably not reading it right. What do you think?

This is a joke right?

You have more to say than to keep leaving one sentence posts to me, right?

lcc.9374:

Well its fine that you want to do support and rez and rams and siege and stuff. But let me tell you this. When i started, i thought the same thing as you. I main a guardian, naturally i rolled the class because i wanted to support my team members. I wanted to build tanky, charge in the frontlines, take hits for teammates. Drop my wall of reflection and shield of avenger. Take out my staff and hammer to choke points. i wanted to stay at the back and drop my heals and let the tough guys charge in and start killing people.

yeah, i never thought i would become damage and kill obssessed when i started.

And basically what made the change in me was people like you.

What i found always in what seems like a 10 man pug. Is that half of my team are lowbies. The other half are undergeared 80s. and 2-3 people left that could actually kill anything.

I want to go support too. But when more than half of my team cant kill someone even if they afked for 10seconds. Someone has to do the dirty work, and “go for four kills before he’s brought down”.

Really, us “gear-chasers” are doing you “support” people a favor in WvW all the time preventing people from kicking your kittens. Appreciate us a bit more.

Yes and you can tell me good strategy and communication stuff wins battles. But without people like me to put all your plans into practice. You would just fail.

Gear matters.

I’m not support because my gear is bad, I’m support because I have no real hand for PvP maneuvers. I understand the theory, and I can grasp how to handle some situations, but I cannot execute well enough to actually have it matter. I could have the best gear ever and it wouldn’t change that I cannot fight for beans.

My first instinct, owing to experiences thus far, is that if I see one “Other Server Invader/Defender” then there is a high likelihood they’re not alone and it’s better to avoid conflict. (This is, partially, due to the “culling” which I won’t BEGIN to say is a fair thing and I really hope they can lessen that in the future.)

I do not engage unless there are at least 3:1 odds in my favor, because I know I am going to be minimally effective because of my habits and my inability to execute. I’m not built for damage, so I can’t take someone down in 10 seconds without an extra damage source (usually). I generally clocked it at 20 seconds, with 15 when my criticals were flowing well and the other person wasn’t fighting after the last 30% of their health, but trying to escape.

You people who are capable of fighting on the level I can’t? I do appreciate you, yet when you say “gear matters” I still think . . .

“Does it really matter as much as you think it does? Does squeezing every few points make that big of a difference on a battlefield where you are not the sole producer of damage?”

Andy.3950:

Missy.7356
This all comes down to added stats.. however small its still there,
Tobias Trueflight.8350
I beg you to indulge a question. These two items might possibly exist, so you tell me which is better.
+61 Power
+44 Precison
+3% Critical Damage
or
+44 Power
+61 Precision
+44 Condition Damage.
Take your time.

This post Tobias, explain this post.

It appears to be a post asking for a comparison of two different sets of statistics and a question about which one was better. The two things in question appear to be prefixes for Ancient Wood Inscriptions to be crafted onto one-handed weapons, though I might be mistaken.

I believe the question is a matter of how to weigh statistics which are obviously not equal to each other, so that you come to a conclusion of which is “better” and a request to please not rush to post “A is obviously better” without offering reasoning.

No, wait, I’m probably not reading it right. What do you think?

Columba.9730:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Samhayn.2385:

The whole issue could be nullified if they made ascended gear available they wvw.

Make it purchasable thru badges, make badges auto loot when the target is downed, remove badges from pve stuff (jumping puzzle awards more badges then actualy fighting. Really?)

I thought they said they have plans to, but hadn’t rolled it out yet.

“Over time…” Whatever that means, they should have done it from day 1.

This is a point you and I can agree on.

Andy.3950:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I argue because I don’t agree with them, not because I want to troll. I genuinely do not agree with their assessment, to figure out why they’re coming to this conclusion.

That wasn’t precisely “arrogance”, because the first time I saw the two sets of stats I wound up weighing it for a while in my head before making a decision. I probably made the wrong one, too.

To reiterate my position:
From what little I have seen of the Ascended items, I believe the statistical advantage is less important than people are making it out to be. Especially in WvWvW, where . . . and this was drummed into me through several actual attempts . . . you do not attempt to take someone 1v1. Comparing things 1v1 is not a good metric to use, because people generally don’t fight that way if it can be helped.
The problem with people barring people without “good gear” from participating in their groups is not solely because the Ascended items exist, because it was going on beforehand. It is a social problem with how people reason, fueled by the concept that having the top tier gear means you know what you’re doing or are exceedingly powerful. This is a mistaken assumption to make, a statement I will make without qualifier; all that gear means nothing if they turn out not to know what they’re doing.

I am holding to this discussion and not shutting up only because I really need to understand . . . why I should feel dirty for playing this game and enjoying the time I play? Why should the guilt rear up and smack me around because I actually take part in events and such with sub-par equipment? Why should we be calling for a blood price from ArenaNet?

Do you even know what you are talking about now?
Explain that post and what you think you posted.

Sigh.

I think I posted that I feel guilty for taking part in a game I enjoy, and these posts are me trying to discuss both my intellectual estimation of the problem and the trouble I have reconciling that for some people in the last few days merely saying “i had fun” is like saying “I eat babies”. It’s simply unacceptable to have fun, and that has me feeling less like having fun and more that I am wasting myself playing a game.

I think what I was trying to get across is that I don’t believe the same things some posters are saying is true. To be more precise, I don’t want to believe it because it doesn’t “feel right” to my sense of empathy and my innate optimism for humanity as a whole.

I think what I have been saying is that I view WvW from the position of someone who will never, EVER, be “elite” at it yet i have been present for both the bad “throw enough people and it’ll die” zerg rushes and the focused ones where organization permitted victories we probably shouldn’t have had by all rights. Those were my observations and I stick to them because they are, in fact, what conclusions I have drawn from what I have seen.

I continue to post out of a desire to become rich and famous and live in a manor made of Exotic gear nobody wants anymore with slave-asurans at my beck and call . . . no wait, someone gave me the wrong script.

I continue to post because I need to assure myself I am not crazy. I am losing that battle because every time I try to formulate things with my typey-fingers everyone seems to react like I said Michael Bay is an underrated genius and Lord of the Rings is a hack fantasy. Well, and actually meant it instead of being a sarcastic example.

I believe I have made abundantly clear I remain utterly mystified, perplexed, and unsettled that people are calling for “someone” to be fired over this debacle. I am especially unsettled by at least one note that it would be worth this game failing to take a certain company with it.

Do I know what I am talking about? Probably not. Do I know what I am saying? Yes, though I’m not entirely certain what you think I am saying. I’m pretty sure, though, you are completely convinced I don’t believe any of this and am posting just to get a rise out of people.

Now, am I confused about myself. No, I know what I am. I am, in essence, “nobody important, and never will be”. There is no future “fan club” for me for anything I do. I will never be a celebrity or have the spotlight thrust upon me with accolades for my genius. Nothing I say here will matter in three weeks’ time, nor will my opinions have any weight in anything at all. What I say here, and the conversations I am undertaking right now, are not for some grand crusade to prove I am right. These posts are not for you to marvel at my words and reconsider your position in the face of infallible logic.

No, these posts are for me to know whether I am sane for enjoying a game which obviously is so deeply flawed nobody in their right mind would enjoy.

Sardonia.8196:

1. Come out and explicitly state that Accended gear is the end all gear. Nothing over this.

2. Create other venues of aquiring the gear besides just the dungeon in a reasonable manner. The recipes now are way over board and need adjusting. To me I would make the recipes slightly larger than the exotic by just uping some of the ingredients by lets say 10 or so more for each item. Be able to obtain the gear through WVW with badges.

1 – I would not make that announcement, because it’s really hard to be honest and make blanket denials. Sure, they may not care about honesty anymore since they’re already all sinners and liars . . . but words like “we have no plans at this time” should/will probably be used instead. YES it gives them room to add more in later. But it’s better than them outright saying “no we won’t do that” and then a year later going “You know how we said we wouldn’t? Well, now we’re going to have to take that back.”

2 – I’m suspecting this was planned but they rushed the gear out feeling it was necessary. By now I’ll say they miscalculated the reaction and now are paying for it with all this forum chatter. This is the only certain change I’d have made to how this was rolled out.

Samhayn.2385:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Samhayn.2385:

The whole issue could be nullified if they made ascended gear available they wvw.

Make it purchasable thru badges, make badges auto loot when the target is downed, remove badges from pve stuff (jumping puzzle awards more badges then actualy fighting. Really?)

I thought they said they have plans to, but hadn’t rolled it out yet.

Anet said it will be available thru wvw. I’m just pushin to have it sooner rather then later and maybe In the future they will bring both out at the same time to avoid the mess we currently have.

I agree this multiple-staged release is part of the issue because we have this speculation about what the full Ascended picture might look like and we don’t know for sure yet. If we did know for sure, I’d be a lot more secure in saying “I don’t think it’s as dire as all that”.

Andy.3950:

You make multiple posts arguing with peoples valid concerns and then you post this.
You didn’t even remotely know what you was talking about and then you had the arrogance to type “Take your time”.
Was it Troll gone wrong or something?

I argue because I don’t agree with them, not because I want to troll. I genuinely do not agree with their assessment, ankittenrying to figure out why they’re coming to this conclusion.

That wasn’t precisely “arrogance”, because the first time I saw the two sets of stats I wound up weighing it for a while in my head before making a decision. I probably made the wrong one, too.

To reiterate my position:
From what little I have seen of the Ascended items, I believe the statistical advantage is less important than people are making it out to be. Especially in WvWvW, where . . . and this was drummed into me through several actual attempts . . . you do not attempt to take someone 1v1. Comparing things 1v1 is not a good metric to use, because people generally don’t fight that way if it can be helped.
The problem with people barring people without “good gear” from participating in their groups is not solely because the Ascended items exist, because it was going on beforehand. It is a social problem with how people reason, fueled by the concept that having the top tier gear means you know what you’re doing or are exceedingly powerful. This is a mistaken assumption to make, a statement I will make without qualifier; all that gear means nothing if they turn out not to know what they’re doing.

I am holding to this discussion and not shutting up only because I really need to understand . . . why I should feel dirty for playing this game and enjoying the time I play? Why should the guilt rear up and smack me around because I actually take part in events and such with sub-par equipment? Why should we be calling for a blood price from ArenaNet?

Rich.9503:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I know nothing about the Bioware situation other than the people I know of who didn’t like the game still didn’t like the game just because the ending was changed. See: Shamus Young.

I’m not going to speak to what I think of it because, frankly, I’m too far in ignorance of that situation to make an opinion.

Its well documented if one is willing to look. Personally i liked it even before the new ending, but that’s another matter. But what it shows is that if enough people show displeasure over a games direction it can be changed if the developers are willing to listen. For the fans our voice is all we have, its our only weapon. No matter how many times they silence us we should never give in, because only then does it really set a bad precedent later on.

I have looked, I’ve read and heard plenty of opinions on it. I mentioned Shamus Young a few times elsewhere, also Chuck Sonnenberg has taken shots at it, Noah Antwiler, Joe Vargas . . . and these are just people whose opinions entered my awareness not through having actually sought it out.

I say I have ignorance because . . . and this is important . . . I never played any of the games. I have no context with which to judge whether or not all these people are overreacting, underreacting, or whatever. So I consciously avoid assuming they’re absolutely right.

dalendria.3762:

If I knew how to fix this mess I’d be starting a thread about it like everyone else. I don’t know where to begin thinking of an answer other than a rollback but I don’t think it will solve the problems. I don’t have a big magic bullet answer because I don’t have all the information (and no, nobody here does, only the devs have all the information about what’s coming up or what they have/had planned).

The review bombs I already addressed – this is a very poor way to do things and it has the potential to explode in ways not intended.

How do you fix this mess? Frankly, if Ascended had been in the primary build when it was released this wouldn’t be as big an issue. The fact it was added on the first actual major content update was perhaps not a well-reasoned move but I expect there are other reasons I don’t know.

A half-reasoned fix from my corner would be to release Ascended as planned, broaden the ability to receive it so it’s not tied to just participation in Fractals, and make sure the next major event planned goes smoothly so people know you’re on top of things. Delay it if it needs more time, but it must go smoothly. Once December arrives do something fun and fluffy for Wintersday, and hold off major content patches for a time so people can settle into a sort of normalcy before shaking it up again.

Astralporing.1957:

Social troubles cannot be resolved if we’re not willing to remove their underlying cause. As long as Anet is unwilling to even discuss that, the only other way to resolve that social problem is to remove the whole society that is troubled.

The underlying cause is, in my opinion, based on conjecture and preconceptions. (I’m not saying “baseless” because there is a base, but we’re seeing people go way out beyond the mark.)

This sort of problem was going on before Ascended was even hinted at, and it was going on in GW1. I do not think you can just say it is only a problem now due to Ascended existing and being developed. The kind of elitism which is bred out in this case simply has more fuel to power their notions, but it’s still . . . in my opinion . . . a misplaced expectancy that some metric is the only important measure of someone’s worth.

Siofra Crumble.2098:

azizul.8469:

how many do you get from the rich ori node ? 12 ? 16 ?.

Somewhere in between.
Depends on how lucky you are.

You get 10 whacks with your pick. Sometimes a strike can give 2 Ore instead of 1 from a Rich Node. Sometimes with WvWvW or Guild Banner buffs you can get an extra Ore per strike.

The presumed maximum is 30, assuming ALL random chance happens to fire in your favor. I have generally averaged out between 10 and 15 most often.

Southern Lord.7254:

I think people who expected everyone to have got the best items 3 months into the game and for it to remain that way for the next 6+ years I think are deluding themselves a bit…

Full disclosure. GW1 never moved the stats on their gear. It started that heavy armor maxed at a point, that the best sword range you could get was 15-22 (how do I still remember that?), and that you only got so many points to allocate to your profession traits and no more.

So, for 7 years, the max gear was always the max gear. The skills, however, were always being tweaked and the metagame shifting over time through various stages. Something that plain was awesome the first year of the game was not the same in the last year. Dervishes got a MAJOR overhaul so that their skillset worked differently.

I think people wanted to think GW2 was going to be the same kind of pattern . . . though I threw that preconception out when they talked about how the skills were more closely linked to a weapon of choice. Once you didn’t have the myriad and massive potential amounts of skill customization from GW1, you couldn’t assume anything in GW2 was going to be similar.

You know, other than the charr being fuzzy horned animals who really like fighting.

Rich.9503:

Bioware did the same by adding a new ending to Mass effect 3 after enough people complained. The voices of the community were so damaging that they had to take notice. Bioware gained my respect after that. It showed they are as human as the rest of us and can make mistakes and really do care about their fans. I believe Anet has made a mistake with this patch and the community should show there dissatisfaction. I believe Anet can make amends if they really wanted to.

I know nothing about the Bioware situation other than the people I know of who didn’t like the game still didn’t like the game just because the ending was changed. See: Shamus Young.

I’m not going to speak to what I think of it because, frankly, I’m too far in ignorance of that situation to make an opinion.

Leonard.2867:

Thing bring Material not loops. Tell a woman with breast cancer that same line and see where the real insult is.

I wouldn’t TELL a woman with breast cancer that line that bluntly. I would tell my own mother that line, but that’s because she needs a swift kick sometimes to get her self-motivation in gear.

I would also advise you not equate this . . . the forum and the game we are talking about . . . to something like cancer/HIV. That cheapens what those people are going through and it isn’t fair to them.

I am not using that loop to suggest “you can only not fly with your bare arms if you haven’t tried hard enough”. Some things are, in fact, physically impossible. Social problems are not in that category, they can be fought against.

And not being accepted for a PUG over not having good enough gear? That’s not a problem revolving around the gear, it revolves around the people. It’s the same as “LF2M, no rangers”. Or, if you prefer: “LF1M, must speak English”, “Underworld, LF1M, pay 1 plat for admission”, “Recruiting for [Guild], must be L80, 18+, and have Vent.”

Jefzor.7145:

GADefence.5634:

“Compare total stats of your character with full exotics, then replace the backpack and 2 rings with ascended and check your total stats. The difference is 3%”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mad_Memoires:_Complete_Edition
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Quiver

I’m sorry, but have you even SEEN the top tiered new items? Items tend to add more stats your characther then you think – it’s why with your base 900 precision, you have ~2% crit chance, while that with 1’900 you have 60+~% crit chance.

If you want to compare it to something, you should compare it to guild backpack with a jewel, not mad memories.

Oh, and I’m an E.

Someone did compare it to a backpack, though not jeweled.

. . . wait, you can put a jewel in a backpack?

Samhayn.2385:

The whole issue could be nullified if they made ascended gear available they wvw.

Make it purchasable thru badges, make badges auto loot when the target is downed, remove badges from pve stuff (jumping puzzle awards more badges then actualy fighting. Really?)

I thought they said they have plans to, but hadn’t rolled it out yet.

dalendria.3762:

Other gaming companies that introduced a new feature that the core customer base hated did rollback. EVE Online, LOTRO.

Unfortunately, Sony did not when they introduced NGE into Star Wars Galaxies. The president later admitted that it was a bad change and hurt the game/their financial model. But it was too late and the game was officially closed down last year.

Yeah, thing is, I really don’t see a rollback helping in this case. I really do expect it won’t do anything to score them any points and will only make more people upset. It might remove the thing that everyone was complaining about, but it runs the very significant risk of alienating the people who made progress during the time between the time of rollback and the time it’s rolled back to.

And if they do a rollback, it tells the people here that if they complain long and loud enough about something they can force the devs to cave in. Whether or not it is the right thing to do in this particular case . . . it sets a bad precedent later on.

I have a lot of time to play.
I enjoy PvE and WvW.

I do not use all my time I could be playing, instead I limit myself to 2 hours a day so I can get other things done. When I do play, I tend to just drop in on a zone I feel like going to today and screwing around. Or maybe I work on my crafts. I check and see what the guild is up to, maybe synchronize going with them to take a Claw of Jormag.

I do not expect to put a major massive impact by myself on the WvW battlefield. I do whatever minor tasks are needed and try to act in a support capacity due to not having the best PvP skills in the box. Not even the third-from-the last. I am the newb knife with the rubber guard on it to keep me from cutting myself.

I am absolutely okay with the idea I will never be “teh best”, own anything I look at and go ’that’s neat’, and will probably never see 100% of the content.

Though according to this matrix, I am deeply dissatisfied with my life and am probably still a virgin to boot.

Leonard.2867:

@Tobias Trueflight.8350
“It only becomes an issue if you let it become an issue.”

Psh, for real? Stop posting. Next….

To paraphrase someone else here, if I stop speaking up and let my voice go unheard then it’s a grave injustice. You do not have to get condescending and insulting, I have at least attempted to remain civil and not tell you to shut up even though I don’t agree. Do me the same courtesy.

Shayde.2564:

I posted this in another thread. I just made the Ascended backpack, here’s a comparison to my old one:

The stats are 20-25% increase, apply that to every piece of armor and weapons and I think you’ll agree it’s going to be a problem in WvWvW.

Thank you. I can see the comparison clearer now, and agree that might be a significant difference.

However, in WvW, as I keep saying, superior gear is only one part of an advantage to win. You could have the most awesome full Ascended set you worked for but if you get jumped by six people and you’re alone? You’re dying. If your whole server squad is decked out in it but the other servers don’t play ball and face you directly, snatching points from you where your squad isn’t at? You’re bleeding points.

Everyone’s so hung up on “statistical superiority” they forget “tactical and strategical superiority” will close that gap.

Leonard.2867:

If it does affect a player, no matter how small, then it becomes an issue.

It only becomes an issue if you let it become an issue.

Do I care that it might give me a +20% edge? (I’m not conceding that that’s a fair number, by the way – we haven’t seen enough to judge, only extrapolate.) Sure, all right, I can safely say it might enter my mind I’d want that. Do I want to go through the trouble to get it? Probably not to the exclusion of everything else. If I get lucky? Maybe I’ll consider it, like if the next time I do the Cathedral of Silence the chest drops a Precursor into my lap.

Would I let that my potential is not at the absolute best it could be stop me from playing the game? No.

I do not think it matters.

Yeah, thing is, I’m not in WvW for one-on-one fights and comparisons. I’m in WvW for purely other reasons than squaring off against someone who was going to smear me. I’m not the one in front trying to lead the charge and go for four kills before I’m brought down. I’m the guy doing combat revives and running supply to the gates to delay them breaking. I’m the guy putting the Arrow Cart plan down for defensive siege, or buying a Ram to sneak in onto a gate. I’m the guy escorting Dolyaks and keeping an eye out for enemies trying to sneak around and hit supply camps.

I’ll also say it again – WvW isn’t really about two exactly matched groups meeting on the field of battle and fighting it out. It’s not about calling a duel between two warriors and may the best set of equipment win.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Those are for different specs. Not sure what you are trying to get across, atleast compare two items of the same affix. That means zerker vs zerker, valkyrie vs valkyre and such.

Someone posted a comparison of two rings: Ruby Orichalcum Ring and Vine of the Pale Tree. Like these two affixes, there was some overlap of statistics but some non-overlap as well.

If I have to compare the same affix? Then you can’t compare these rings. If you compare those rings, then I can compare two different prefixes/suffixes.

So, really, which one is better?

Leonard.2867:

@Tobias Trueflight.8350

I’m sorry but I did not read your life story. I played GW1 from day one until my final deployment to Afghanistan in 2010. I stopped playing GW1 and tried WoW then went back to GW1. I stopped playing GW1 other times as well to either, enjoy real life or other non-mmo games. Either case, from the start, I always came back to GW1. I promise, that if Anet continues in the direction they are going, when I leave GW2, I wont come back unless they, at Anet, revert back to their Mission Statement. I did not go back to WoW, I went back to GW1 and now GW2.

“Has ArenaNet put something in the game which is against their manifesto? Are
Ascended items something they promised they wouldn’t do?”

First question yes, and it started with Legendary Weapons, hence so much animosity. Next question, I do not know. But I do know it was not GW1 and its not what I payed $80 for the game and another $50 on gems.

“Same answer to both situations. I don’t think it matters, but I can’t say for certain. I am neither clairvoyant nor am I capable of peering into alternate realities.”

It does matter, otherwise the forums would be flooded with, “fix your bugs” and “your dungeons are still too hard” instead of, “WoWzerz Bowzerz Anet, OMG for real?”

I didn’t really expect anyone to read my life story. That’s just a selected fraction of it, mind you. My life story is quite boring and uninteresting, and I am relatively certain once I close the final chapter there will be nobody wanting to hear it. I made peace with that long ago.

Again, I disagree about “does it matter?” because I honestly don’t think it will make a difference. Legendaries didn’t make a difference, for all that they were highly grind-y. They’re there, you need to invest time and effort to get them, but in the end I’m not seeing a big compelling reason to chase them other than “because it’s there”.

Missy.7356:

This all comes down to added stats.. however small its still there,

I beg you to indulge a question. These two items might possibly exist, so you tell me which is better.

+61 Power
+44 Precison
+3% Critical Damage

or

+44 Power
+61 Precision
+44 Condition Damage.

Take your time.

Phy.2913:

What’s the total stat difference between rare and exotic? If people are going to proclaim the complete destruction of WvW because of this stat increase lets compare it to the current state of the game. What’s the difference between an 80 in exotics and a lvl 2 in WvW?

. . . don’t go there. I got a guy constantly insisting +20% but he won’t give me numbers to work with. The numbers I do have can be examined, debated, and held under tight scrutiny to notice they don’t exactly directly compare in some ways.

ginzo.8792:

ye it was something they used to believe , an ideal….

now its just a joke cos they sold out on their ideal

Funny thing . . . I wrote a novel-length story at one point from a sentence scribbled on a memo pad. I didn’t intend to, it just kind of grew as I wrote. I was cleaning out my stuff while moving earlier this year and found the paper and sighed. The novel which I had written had wound up a science fiction novel rather than the fantasy I had envisioned. The supporting characters I’d thought would be important had disappeared about midway through the second act, and the third act was a mess trying to reconcile something I forgot I’d written in the first act but fit so well I needed to keep it or scrap the whole second and third acts.

Leonard.2867:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I don’t think it’s “you people”. I think it’s a small knot of very disgruntled fans. This is the same kind of mentality as fans who will throw stuff on the field of a ball game when their team is losing . . . causing the game to be ended prematurely and with no chance to recover.

Those fans you are referring too are the fans who have either played GW1 and know the philosophy, or the fans who have accepted the GW1/2 Mission statement.

“Read my lips. No new taxes”
-George W. Bush

. . . yeah, there’s a thing with trying to promise absolutes. Someday you might have to go back on it. I had to, within the last year, entertain a young daughter of a friend. This meant I had to do something I had said a couple times (jokingly, but I said it) I would never do.

I actually recommended MLP.

If you want something a little heavier, and with more meat to it, let’s try this. I once said I wouldn’t ever move back in with my parents. I got a good job working for a restaurant and party hot spot. It closed and I looked at moving back but I had made a promise . . . so I went to work managing for a small company at a mall kiosk. I did well enough, not the top sellers but not the worst. My employees respected me, liked me and I had one quit and come back after seeing I’d resolved the issue that made him quit.

They opted to go online distribution at the end of the year. I wound up making all kinds of promises to interested buyers to have the product there for the new version rollout in March but . . . oops. Not only that, but my roommate had accepted a promotion and now was moving out of state.

I moved back in with my family. A year and a half later my mom wound up in the hospital for four (count them, four) Pulmonary Embolisms. For that whole year, I was pretty much there supporting her and keeping her sane, while having to pick up the slack since she couldn’t do very much.

In the end? If I hadn’t moved back in, she probably would be dead right now.

What does that have to do with this? The same kind of thing “no new taxes” had to do with it. If you want to go pulling in real life examples?

What if Kennedy hadn’t made the rash promise to put a man on the moon in a short timetable? If the Apollo 1 accident had delayed the timetable and he missed the promised date would he be a liar? Objectively . . . yes. Demonstratably, the date passed and it hadn’t been done. Would it have mattered if they landed Apollo 11 a month . . . a year late?

Has ArenaNet put something in the game which is against their manifesto? Are
Ascended items something they promised they wouldn’t do?

Same answer to both situations. I don’t think it matters, but I can’t say for certain. I am neither clairvoyant nor am I capable of peering into alternate realities.

Patience, grasshopper. Karma does not work immediately. You need to do Plinx about 400 times first.

(Just kidding.)

I don’t think it’s “you people”. I think it’s a small knot of very disgruntled fans. This is the same kind of mentality as fans who will throw stuff on the field of a ball game when their team is losing . . . causing the game to be ended prematurely and with no chance to recover.