“Observe, learn and counter.”
PvP scenario?
I’m not sure. I’m not really doing that much of a burst, but I have considerable spiked. And much more utility.
I posted a power PvP build that worked pretty fine for me. You might want to take a look.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/PvP-build-Marauder/first#post5221438
Rangers never really had the greatest of bursts. We never could have compared to other Zerks with their bursts. But we have better survivability when it comes to PvP.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
But who knows, Druid is still unrevealed (we might get a buff through there), and Sinister Stats for the new maps would turn the tide towards rangers that are far superior in Condition competition (Sinister Already proves to have higher solo-DPS than a Zerk)
I’ve been trying out a condition build with full sinister gear, and its had great results so far. It uses WS/SK/BM, axe or sword mainhand with torch and dagger offhand, flame trap, vipers nest, and frost spirit.
It has pretty nice damage, possibly higher than that of the S/A Greatsword build everyone is using if you have someone else to apply vulnerability.
By the way – I suggest you using Sun Spirit with Sinister Stats. Everyone will hit the Burning from it which might as well result in better DPS boost. But I’m not sure on this. I just happened to love it.
Your Poison deals some nice numbers with Poison Master, too.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I’m not sure what personal DPS is like now, but I speaking more of those things combined. Rangers get frost spirit and spotter while warriors get 2 banners, Empower allies, and Phalanx Strength. The two essentially share the same role, but warrior has always been better at it.
Well, this much I knew. Warrior’s banners and Phalanx Strength have always been superior team support to Ranger.
But Rangers were able to pull of higher self-DPS. I haven’t seen any Warrior DPS video or promotion post-patch so I didn’t have the chance to compare. I don’t play warriors. Not really my cup of tea (and the IRL friend of mine who offered me to play his character is out of reach atm)
“Observe, learn and counter.”
It does.
-snip-
Again, no, it doesn’t. So, Rangers become more acceptable? Great small change there. Utility-wise? We’re still the same as before. Nerfing Frost Bow won’t change much – Rangers will still be a Ranger.
Give the class a unique support, buff, or boon that can fit into both old and new PVE content – now we’re talking.
You need both. Without nerfing Frostbow, our mechanic wouldn’t matter anyway, so we need something extra over Frost Spotter and also a nerf to frost bow, then we can be in a good place.
We bring perma AoE fury, over 15 stacks of vulnerability uptime, 2 unique buffs in terms of 15% dps increase and DPS that only got higher ever since we were able to out-DPS warriors and guardians before patch (I don’t want to jump to conclusions because I can’t say for sure if we do more DPS now, since I haven’t played Warrior or Guard, yet).
Do you really believe we “need” more? If I was to build a party without Icebow possibilities – I would definitely go for Warrior (banners), Ele (might), Ranger (unique 15% boost), Thief or Mesmer (skips / quickness).
As a matter of analytical and scientific results in terms of DPS and time economy. Not as a personal preference.OK, I need to clarify this ice bow business. Are we referring to icebow as in the icebow conjured by an ele or is there some icebow skill I am unaware of within the ranger traits? Granted it has been several months since I’ve invested more than a boss here & there into GW2 and just last week reentered and revamped and adjusted each character’s skills.
The conjured one.
This to be precise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCYXcr8zORY
“Observe, learn and counter.”
If they want to balance PvE then each profession needs important and unique mechanics and roles. We can’t have professions that are weaker versions of another (ranger vs warrior, both have the same role which is largely group damage boosts and personal DPS, which the warrior does better), or completely lacking ones like the necromancer.
Just wanted to ask – is this confirmed? We had better DPS before the patch. And I haven’t tested this myself, yet.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Warrior brings AoE perma-fury with less investment, while also giving out might. Engi can currently maintain 25 stacks of vuln by themselves while dealing more damage. Spotter isn’t amazing because a good number of builds are running with 100% crit chance anyways. We don’t bring anything unique to the table except a built in tank, which isn’t a necessity due to the DPS meta, and frost spirit, which isn’t super useful to begin with due to being completely stationary and killable.
The spirit provides 15 seconds of the Buff after dying. If it dies – you are left without the buff for 5 seconds only. Which means you can kill it a few seconds before the target dies and you’ll have it at every encounter you need.
But I cannot deny that warriors are good with fury application, or that Spotter has a cap unlike Empowered Allies (which makes it less worthy in record runs).
But who knows, Druid is still unrevealed (we might get a buff through there), and Sinister Stats for the new maps would turn the tide towards rangers that are far superior in Condition competition (Sinister Already proves to have higher solo-DPS than a Zerk).
I do agree that we are not as OP as other classes, but in terms of arzenal of mechanics, Rangers have quite a bit of everything hand in hand with 2 unique buffs (that, yet again, have some flaws).
We are just simply not OP in a specific area like Warriors or Eles. That’s it.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
It does.
-snip-
Again, no, it doesn’t. So, Rangers become more acceptable? Great small change there. Utility-wise? We’re still the same as before. Nerfing Frost Bow won’t change much – Rangers will still be a Ranger.
Give the class a unique support, buff, or boon that can fit into both old and new PVE content – now we’re talking.
You need both. Without nerfing Frostbow, our mechanic wouldn’t matter anyway, so we need something extra over Frost Spotter and also a nerf to frost bow, then we can be in a good place.
We bring perma AoE fury, over 15 stacks of vulnerability uptime, 2 unique buffs in terms of 15% dps increase and DPS that only got higher ever since we were able to out-DPS warriors and guardians before patch (I don’t want to jump to conclusions because I can’t say for sure if we do more DPS now, since I haven’t played Warrior or Guard, yet).
Do you really believe we “need” more? If I was to build a party without Icebow possibilities – I would definitely go for Warrior (banners), Ele (might), Ranger (unique 15% boost), Thief or Mesmer (skips / quickness).
As a matter of analytical and scientific results in terms of DPS and time economy. Not as a personal preference.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
Marksmanship is for Direct Damage – Wilderness Survival supports conditions and Shortbow Specifically.
There’s no discussion. Wilderness wins the day for condition builds.
For the Maths, you forgot Predator’s Onslaught. But that doesn’t really matter. Shortbow’s DPS is hybrid – ergo crits and conditions for this build from Wilderness are far superior in terms of DPS.
But then again, Shortbow has no place in constructive PvE. World bosses won’t let you flank them, you don’t want this weapon in dungeons, and the only place where you can run this is open world content.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
Yes, Frost Bow is powerful, but that never stopped Thieves, Guardians, Warriors, and Mesmers from being accepted into the meta since they are able provide something that no other class can and do it exceedingly well.
Look past the damage, mate. Asking for straight up nerfs does not accomplish much.
It does.
Thieves were accepted for stealth and skipping
Guardians for fine DPS but huge AoE damage mitigation or recovery
Warriors for banners = DPS boost.
Rangers bring 15% unique DPS boost via Frost Spotter – which can as well be meta. Also be noted that we have lots of % dmg boosters and Signet of the Wild for +25% damage which can be applied to Frost Bow.
That means we just as well be meta. But we aren’t. Because without the Icebow – everyone sucks. Everyone in the meta is just supporting the Icebow. That’s just a sad fact that we can’ get through, and we can just thank A-net for buffing Icebow further.
If Icebow gets nerfed to normal numbers that make sense instead of AoE instakilling machine – we wouldn’t need 5 people in the party holding Icebows in their hands.
I haven’t been able to understand how people are okay with this – and no one really cared. Everyone was fine with it and everyone is fine with it even now. If the thing that has dominated PvE gets nerfed to match everyone else in PvE content – even our unique 15% DPS boost would become meta.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I think I’ve been seeing this more and more. Playing as a Mesmer, is the Shared Anguish trait why I see so many immunities to interrupts and knocks? Just trying to figure out where those immunes are coming from, and I don’t know a lot about rangers.
One probability is Strength of the Pack that is basically Rampage as One elite on shorter cooldown and shorter duration.
The other is exactly the Shares Anguish that is now on 60sec cooldown instead of 90.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
From a dungeon perspective I think we’re doing fine. Really enjoying the new Zephyr’s speed.
From a dungeon perspective I find rangers as fine as before. Much better to be honest. And we finally have rotations so it’s not boring anymore.
But as long as Icebows keep their cheesy “press #4 to win the dungeon” mechanic, things won’t change.
People should start looking at the real problems in PvE – and that’s Elementalists’ single conjure weapon that pushes everyone out of meta. Without them – so many possibilities for various classes would appear. But currently that’s not possible because every record run is based on 2-3 eles.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I’d prefer it to be the long CD ability with boons application. I had various uses for it’s current functionality and I’d prefer it being buffed in might numbers than in cooldown.
I don’t find Rangers in such a huge need of blast finishers. We already provide all important fields in terms of support, and 2 unique DPS boosters (important) for PvE.
I’m that kind of guy who believes every class should be different. We have builds focusing on might stacking, We have builds focusing on raw DPS, on utility… It’s not like we have no options. But I don’t want every class to have the same options with same results. There would be no point in class diversity.
I believe rangers are fine at the moment. We finally have high-spike DPS and there already are different classes designed for burst.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I have no idea what you’re yammering about, rangers are as good as, if not better than, they were before the patch.
The issue is not about being good or not. It’s about not being on par with other classes that are more good aka better than us.
“In this world there are people who are equal, more equal and equal the most.”
Rangers are fine. But not fine enough – is the deal. I hope Druid brings some stuff to the table.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Whichever change it might be to make Warhorn a worthwhile weapon – I wouldn’t mind.
If the Blast Finisher has shorter cooldown and durations are reduced – I wouldn’t mind
If the stats or damage provided by this weapon are buffed – I wouldn’t mind
I just want my warhorn to have a rightful place in my hand in at least one scenario.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
The trait is not fine. It was a reliable blast finisher when you were in combat, now it’s not. You have to mentally keep track of the timer if you want to use the blast and if you screw up and hit it early you are locked out of it until your pet swap refreshes.
Ask yourself honestly would this skill be over powered with a 15 second cooldown or would it make a lot more sense?
The trait is fine. No one ever told you this trait is going to be the permanent reliable on demand blast finisher. It told you to cast Warhorn skill #5 and you keep expecting something more from it, because you already experienced that (unintentional) feeling.
This game should remain reasonable. Casting an ability with 30 second cooldown every 15 seconds is not reasonable at all.
But then again, buffing Icebow in this update is beyond my comprehension.
In my opinion, Call of the wild is the one that needs to be addressed, not Clarion Bond. If you could get 6 might for 15 sec by running Warhorn and Clarion bond – you would be satisfied with 30 second cooldown, wouldn’t you?
It wouldn’t be OP because of the cooldown, your off-hand weapon would be occupied with low-DPS utility weapon – but your utility would be up.
Does it sounds better now? I always think that problems should be addressed at a place of the problem. Not in the middle of the way of it.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
A lot of people came complaining about the fix to Clarion Bond lately, and I can understand the reason why.
But I feel that the trait as it is is completely fine with no need to be addressed. It’s main purpose wouldn’t be changed or improved with lower cooldown and I find that people’s demands on this one are mostly because they lost something they found amazing or powerful, thus they fall prey to the one of basic human instincts – trying to get it back.
The problem though can be addressed with better precision and would hit 2 birds with one stone. To address the ability itself, not the trait.
Proposed change:
~ Call of the Wild:
Grant Fury, Might and Swiftness to yourself and nearby allies.
Blast Finisher
- Now adds 3 might instead of 1*
Reasoning
- There have been literally no build in PvE or PvP that would include Warhorn as a weapon. This has been our least used weapon across all and every content and does not have what it takes to fulfill it’s purpose of a utility weapon.
- By increasing the might to 3 stacks, it would (finally) hold a potential of supportive/hybrid weapon that would focus on on-hit effects such as Sharpened Edges or Sigils and providing utility for the party. A utility that could be noticed.
- 1 might doesn’t increase the damage by any valid amount at all. This is a very poor design since the 1 stack of might doesn’t provide any benefit apart from “protection” against boon stripping.
- This change would by no means be powerful or overpowered since we already have classes running around with abilities that are able to provide 12 might at will without flinching an eye, and these classes have access to solid AoE swiftness,too. And party defensive support on much better scale than a ranger (Guardian/Ele talking).
- This change is needed to make warhorn a viable utility weapon ever since it was implemented*
“Observe, learn and counter.”
You have not accounted for the fact it feels awkward, slow, unreliable and no fun. Why do you factor in might and regen that are not part of this trait ?
How is might not a part of this skill?
“Observe, learn and counter.”
rather have clarions bond every two pet swaps that way i know which pet will be out when the blast happens.
I fail to see how getting it once every other pet swap is positive in any way compared to every pet swap. You could get the effect every pet swap, and in turn get it on the pet you want it on in addition to your less desirable pet.
It’s just clunky and it’s current form and it makes Remorseless trigger less, which in my opinion was the fun and gameplay changing build I’ve always wanted.
That also means you started to play a build you didn’t want.
The 30 sec. CD part of the trait was designed ever since implemented. If they change it – I’ll be glad. If they don’t – I wouldn’t mind.I expected it to work that way regardless. I found it way too exploitable with 15 sec CD. It basically said “F@#k you” to Warhorn. If you use the trait and warhorn – you now get 100% uptime and both blasts.
If you want to address something – address Call of the Wild. Not Clarion Bond.
I find it strange that people want adept trait to be 200% of a Weapon’s Ability.Totally agree, but this is also why I suggested to reduce the duration of the buffs from Clarion Bond. It’s difficult to find a correct balance between both issues.
Out of curiosity, would anyone be really opposed to Clarion Bond not casting the Warhorn skill anymore but instead just giving a couple of different buffs for a few seconds? Or what about some stat increases like 100 power and 10 seconds of fury?
How about giving Call of the Wild 3 might instead of 1?
That 1 might is as much of a joke as the Nature’s Vengeance’s contribution to Frost Spirit.
I personally like it to be Call of the Wild. It has some nice synergy with Nature Magic talent tree. And I was really curious if a supportive build with double blasts and Windborne Notes can be made.
I didn’t really forced myself into a brainstorming, though. I was hoping I could get a synergy of spirits with this, but spirits are just plain bad for PvP atm.
I believe the 30 sec. cooldown on a pure utility ability (not offensive because perma fury is already there and might isn’t noticed, not defensive but a pure utility one) should be rewarded with something meaningful.
I don’t remember considering Warhorn as a full-time weapon. I only keep it for out of combat speed boosts. The weapon in combat is useless and yet it could be such a nice hybrid weapon with all the on-hit procs (16) with utility purposes.
But it needs the love. It’s not Clarion Bond that needs a look-at. It’s the Warhorn.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Percent damage multipliers are actually very powerful because the way they are calculated. They are multiplied so after a certain point, that “10% damage” trait can end up being an ~14% damage increase.
For instance, with Steady Focus, scholar runes, and a force sigil, you are currently looking at a (1,000 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.05 = 1,270.5) 27% damage increase, not 25%.
If we add another two 10% damage modifiers on there, which the old meta build had, we have a (1,000 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.05 = 1,537.3) 53.7% damage increase, not 45%.
If you add on the 25% from Signet of the Wild, 10% from potions, and 10% from night runes, to the old build, you are looking at a (1,000 * 1.25 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.05 = 2,325.173) 132.5% damage increase, not 90%.
So losing out on those two 10% damage modifiers is a significant hit, something an occasional 25% damage modifier from remorseless and faster weapon swapping might not make up for.
Edit: After doing the math on how much criticals increase your damage, if you have ascended berserker, ranger runes, and spotter, you should have 85% crit chance and 220% crit damage. With Hunter’s Tactics, which was converted from % damage to critical chance, you will have a 95% critical chance which will increase your DPS by ~11%. However, guaranteed crits from remorseless and precision from other sources that would put you over 100% would lower its effectiveness.
In short, Hunter’s tactics is around the same DPS as it was before the change as long as you don’t use remorseless or go over 100% crit chance, in which case its a lot worse.
Same goes for Crits…
Edit: For a reason, the post wasn’t with your edit when I made the reply and I didn’t notice it in the quote. My bad.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
Exactly the opposite way.
With power build you deal high damage at 1st and then it lowers down.
Conditions will deal low damage at 1st and then ramp up to higher DPS.
Dire/Carrion/Sinisters are the stats you’d like. Depends on your gold status and access to armor.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
current PVE content, record runs, etc are completely irrelevant imo, with all the sweeping changes coming in HoT. something tells me people wont be able to run full glass in Maguuma jungle.
I think there will probably be 1 tank at best and Sinisters/Zerks all around. That’s my guess.
Even 50 fractals are played on full zerks.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Yes Ranger is in a worse PvE spot than before. Ranger actually lost damage modifiers through the patch, although Damage is overall higher now due to new options when it comes to skill rotations it’s not that much of a buff compared to before.
We got one steroid buffed (from modifier to crit) and we haven’t lost any.
We gained one in return. Our pets got buffed, too.But yes, it’s nothing really that would burn our way through the ceiling to the new meta.
+10%crit chance while flanking vs +10% damage while flanking is not a buff.
If your crit chance is already 100%, this trait does exactly nothing. If your crit chance is less than 100%, it will increase your damage, but not by nearly as much as a flat 10%
It boosts crits – from which on-crit effects trigger more often (bleeds, sigils) – that’s a DPS boost by itself. Moreover, Ferocity increase my mg by 219% now. Which means 10% crit chance is more than 10% DPS boost without on-crit effects itself.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
What’s the tooltip for it, damage wise, now?
Tooltip says 720 (3x).
Nothing breath-taking but helps.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Yes Ranger is in a worse PvE spot than before. Ranger actually lost damage modifiers through the patch, although Damage is overall higher now due to new options when it comes to skill rotations it’s not that much of a buff compared to before.
We got one steroid buffed (from modifier to crit) and we haven’t lost any.
We gained one in return. Our pets got buffed, too.
But yes, it’s nothing really that would burn our way through the ceiling to the new meta.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I like the build mate.
You use the trap as an ice field for chilling and frost aura? As well as the ability to flee chilled foes too I suppose.
Exactly.
And it’s the thing that helps you bunker a point if you really have to. Well, the damage on it is nice, too.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I’m not sure if Support Berserker build is what you are looking for. As I see it – you don’t have enough condi cleanse and not enough defense.
Yet the weapons are not really bursty. I’d consider Healing Spring with Clarion Bond for double Blast heals and double leap finisher. Would help you and your team survive much better (when you decided to play support).
I can’t tell for sure, but that’s just what I can tell from my experience and theory. I haven’t tried the build, yet.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I believe that Rangers might become a thing if a content with Sinister Stats appear.
Till then, Rangers got behind from meta to viable, only.
Viable as not being a burden but still not suitable for record runs.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I don’t think it’s too much to ask to be honest. Other professions provide more damage and more group utility than even the best rangers. The fact that guardians just got the best quickness skill in the game edges rangers out of the meta even further.
I just think it would be better to ask for attention at different places than mechanics that you already can get up to full potential.
I believe we both could agree on that.
About PvE meta – I fail to comprehend how meta can be measured when every single content is being facerolled by Icebows and Fiery Greatswords. There would be much more competition and space for Rangers and everyone else if every single group didn’t have to consist of 3 eles.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Greetings Ranger Community.
I came here to share one of my other builds I have been playing with.
Please, be noted that this build might not be a complete build you would end up running, but is to work more of a template for a different play-style you might find effective or fun.
_____________________________________
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-Jo-g;1wEVu-u2JEF-0;9k2Y;1YZ_;0057236157;4I7m6X;1LNW4LNW4a0N
_____________________________________
This build is a Sustainable variation of Zerk with nice access to damage mitigation as well as condition cleanse. The damage it deals is significant and it is able to provide team support via various uses such as soft or hard CC.
Thanks to Quick Draw – this build can dance around Stealth – repositioning, disrupting, straight damage dealing if not focused.
Thankfully, Quick Draw allows this weapon set to go absolutely adaptive to the situation – which allows 1 utility space for this wonderful ability – Frost Trap.
It takes some time to learn the trap, but it definitely pays off.
______________________________________
Cons:
Mediocre Mobility
Lacks True burst of Thief
Doesn’t have a full cleanse
Pros:
High Direct damage spikes
Nice disruption in both soft and Hard CC
Can be played extremely defensively regardless of full offensive stats
Has nice high access to condition cleanse and Direct Damage mitigation
Has immense access to damage combinations and disruptive sequences
___________________________________________
Any feedback is welcome.
I had success with this build, so far, won several bunkering fights but I found myself having problems only against d/d eles. Engies, Warriors, Necros, Thieves, Mesmers were all easy matchups unless I screwed up.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
rather have clarions bond every two pet swaps that way i know which pet will be out when the blast happens.
I fail to see how getting it once every other pet swap is positive in any way compared to every pet swap. You could get the effect every pet swap, and in turn get it on the pet you want it on in addition to your less desirable pet.
It’s just clunky and it’s current form and it makes Remorseless trigger less, which in my opinion was the fun and gameplay changing build I’ve always wanted.
That also means you started to play a build you didn’t want.
The 30 sec. CD part of the trait was designed ever since implemented. If they change it – I’ll be glad. If they don’t – I wouldn’t mind.
I expected it to work that way regardless. I found it way too exploitable with 15 sec CD. It basically said “F@#k you” to Warhorn. If you use the trait and warhorn – you now get 100% uptime and both blasts.
If you want to address something – address Call of the Wild. Not Clarion Bond.
I find it strange that people want adept trait to be 200% of a Weapon’s Ability.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
IKR, nobody complained about CB having a 30s CD back then, or that you would be able to trait it with Windborne notes for 12s of regen and get the 24s CD.
If you look at the patch notes, they added the CD to the Call of the Wild skill, not the trait which triggers it.
It is still 50% uptime of swiftness and fury and far better than the other adepts in MM. Just saying.
And now you’re going to get pointed out for stating the obvious just like me. It’s a kitteny duty, but somebody has to do it.
Still, I find it funny that people want it to “be reliable” to have it on every weapon swap. Which is 20 seconds CD (This trait has nothing to do with BM) and not 15 seconds as they claim. Not to mention I sincerely doubt they used pet swap on cooldown.
I always use it when my pet is about to die (PvP) or at the beginning of the fight for the blast (PvE). I said it before and I’ll say it again. I never felt the need to have shorter cooldown on it because in PvP I swap pets when I need it (not for the trait) and in PvE I never got the opportunity for the 2nd blast. The boss already died.
Ranger already has access to perma swiftness, Perma Fury, Perma Regen, and most of it on 1 trait and 1 off-hand weapon alone. I sometimes think that Rangers are getting much more like warriors in terms of whining.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I think you are giving yourself too much credit for something no one from anet said.
The QoL shouldn’t have ICD because the boons don’t last enough except for swiftness. You would know that if you would have used it.That you don’t use that trait doesn’t mean other users find it useful and is very irrespective from you to say is ok when is not. Very bearbow like if i may say.
In my case i didn’t find the exploit i don’t use tonics. But i was using QoL as intended, every pet swap while in combat and that was useful.If the Devs must they should have stablish an ICD as a lot of ppl said: a trait that is activated by other actions that have CD should have the same ICD as that action’s CD.
Otherwise is just hell to manage that. Here just using common sense.See what happened to the spirits with the: i don’t know how much time has left to cast the skill .
They keep nerfing instead fixing other stuff like sword#1 or even to be able to see in my bar what conditions/boons are affecting my pet.
Let me get a few things straight…
I stressed it like a hundred times, but it might not have been obvious enough. My whole past response was nothing but a huge load of sarcasm.
You have mistaken every single letter of my thread, including that I don’t use the trait, even though I do. Learn to read properly. I wouldn’t have made a use of shorter cooldown – is what I said.
In PvE – Other people provide swiftness, too. The boss won’t last longer than 15 seconds, so that I wouldn’t really need the second blast. Outside of combat – swap to warhorn makes the deal.
If you want it for perma AoE fury – you already have Red Moa for that.
In PvP – I found myself in better need of Enlargement even when pet swap was a thing.
But the biggest issue that I have mentioned 1st and everyone ignored:
~ The ability was designed to have a 30 second cooldown from the beginning. No one said a word! Everyone cheered to death! You all saw the CD back then and you all praised the A-net gods. Now that you realized the current mechanic was unintentional – you smack the head to the wall sticking heads up talking balance stuff.
I was not referring to strength / value / QoL – I was referring to the hypocrisy of people who pretend to know better based on their feelings rather than numbers that have been set months ago.
Let me take a guess. Do you remember what the topic of this thread is?
Exactly, it’s the exploit. Not a thread about whether the CD is fine or not. They solved the issue of the exploit – and here it goes.
If you want to address Warhorn’s #5 ability – address that one. That, after all, is the problem you see. Not Clarion’s Bond.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I am not sure guyz. Ranger is now able to blow 4 blast finishers in combat, one after another. I find it enough. I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be nice to be as OP as eles have been for years, but I just don’t need more.
4 blast finishers? ô.o
How do you do that? I only know Hunters Call as blast finisher, which you can trigger 2 times with weapon and trait. And there is a blast finisher on drake pets, but you can’t control that.
The long CD ability is the 1st ability a pet will use if you don’t give him any order (not even the attack order).
Yes, for this you need to keep them on Aggressive.
It’s close to as you say – you don’t have control of those abilities – but you know when to expect them.
Yep, you only can cast 2. Tragic Positive is a positive thinker and always tend to make ranger looks better than actually it is. There are a couple of users like that in this forums, and i think because of that anet don’t take seriously anything we write here.
…
Yes, this is definitely the whole and only reason and I’m definitely the one responsible for so many changes we received from A-net the 2 last big updates (but only the bad ones, of course).
And it doesn’t have anything in common that they rarely read any ideas in Ranger forums, or that they do not main rangers themselves.
And it’s exactly that I disagree with the QoL buff to make it a 15 sec. CD. And you can even see it in my comment. Oh wait. I accidentally left that out. I only mentioned that I wouldn’t make a huge use of it in PvE or sPvP anyways (since I don’t WvW much theses days)
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
It’s amusing how people start to cry over a reversed change that was supposed to work like this from the beginning.
The note saying: 30 sec CD; was there ever since the trait was designed. The description of the ability used was exactly there.
The same design was on Keen Edge trait for years and none of you complained. An exploitable bug was removed and here the fest begins.
I am not sure guyz. Ranger is now able to blow 4 blast finishers in combat, one after another. I find it enough. I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be nice to be as OP as eles have been for years, but I just don’t need more.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Thanks all for the positive Feedback.
Yes, sadly, this build has pretty much everything except AoE possibilities. That’s why I called it a “duelist” build. But it has pretty much everything including damage and survivability.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
You are welcome, Sir.
Anytime.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Invigorating Bond is fine as it is. on a 20s CD, with no bonus healing power its
7740 health per minute.
If you use fernhound, it’s a whopping
14640 health per minute (actually MORE than that because of the minor that makes pet boons last longer, so even more healing form the fern hound’s regeneration boon.) >> 2580 + 1000 + (minimum) 1300 health * 3
You do realize that a fight lasts for 5-15 seconds at best, right?
And you do realize that FernHound heals as much as the Grandmaster trait itself, right? And it delays your own regeneration that might benefit from healing power unlike FernHound’s.
And you do realize that in a PvP match, you are not waiting for the day Z – you are casting the ability when you need it – usually when you are too away from the pet to get any heal at all – throwing the heal on cooldown without benefiting from it.
Getting protection for 4 seconds (from Protective Ward) helps you mitigate damage much better and in much higher numbers that the unreliable heal of 2500 per 20 seconds.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
If nothing else, you can push yourself to taking Beast Mastery tree that is finally viable and powerful and take the Shout Trait – and sacrifice 1 utility slot for Guard (and you can take Heal as One, too).
This way you’ll get perma swiftness and regeneration. Hope this helps.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Did you ask them what the exploit is?
There’s no point.
I faced a warrior (I know right…) the other day. I taunted him. He died.
He whispered me that I was a cheater, he’s reporting me and blocked me after…
… And the legend says he has been dying ever since.
We won the fight with 500-220 score? I wasn’t even using the Clarion Bond at that time. I was running full evade (SB + s/d) Carrion BM build.
Children have always been this way. They hear a whisper about a bug and they misunderstand their ego for justice and roll around whining, blaming and accusing everyone playing the class without having a slight idea what the bug/exploit is.
If I’m correct you can’t even use tonics in a sPvP match. WvW is the only environment where this can be abused.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Note:
Poison Volley has been piercing targets ever since I can remember.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
- Tried Power, Condi Surv., Trap and Spirit Ranger.
Power – viable; Condi Surv. – viable; Trap – viable; Spirit Ranger – not viable. - Frost Spirit stays as a PvE option. In PvP – no spirits are really worth the investment. They are either used as 2-click 20cd actives or they die 2 seconds of the cast.
Consider buffing their Health Pools significantly / On-Death Activation / Boosting “Nature’s Vengeance” boon application. - Not as a pure source of damage, no. There is a clear answer that needs to be addressed:
Pets die to conditions extremely fast because they lack resistance/condi cleanse and our only condition cleansing option in Beast Mastery (Empathic Bond, Signet of the Renewal) kill the pet in seconds flat. - Yes, remorseless GS + BM trait for it becomes an option to PvE meta DPS that competes with the standard LB opening > sword swap. It beats this setup in longer (11 sec+) scenarios.
- ~ Support Shoutbow definitely seems to be a viable option, but it still lacks the synergy with bugged Rune of the Trooper. But it has a success.
~ A strange build of Zerk (Valk) Longbow trapper (Frost Trap especially) became much more interesting (I can’t say if viable yet). I need further testing, but looked like really promising with the Projectile Finisher synergy.
Things to be addressed:
~ Conditions pulled onto pet – unrewarding, toxic, we have no counter-play to sacrificing our pets
~ Spirits – dying too fast for PvP environment. Frost Spirit (Nature’s Vengeance) 1 might for 1 second every 3 seconds is way too of a bad design with absolutely no impact on DPS whatsoever. Other are quite fine (33% uptime on duration stacking boons is fine)
~ Most Dangerous Game is weaker than other below 50% HP traits. In this fast meta, you can’t afford to stay below 50% hp for more than a few seconds. And the only reward being a few might stacks is way too low for a GrandMaster trait. Staying below 50% for 8 seconds is non-comprehensible.
I believe if I missed anything, my Ranger brethren will fill the space.
(Edited for better appearance)
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
It’s easy to test.
Your last tick of the DoT (damage over time) should be different as from before.
Try testing it on #4 Throw Torch
With and without the trait. It worked for me.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Sounds like a good build, but the Sigil of Generosity can be a problem, i heard it procs without conditions, wasting cooldown, is that true ?
I think it is. But in PvP with 12% crit chance I didn’t have a slightest problem with it. It almost always transfered a condition since it doesn’t proc on cooldown but only later in fight where you already have 32% thanks to fury.
Of course, feel free to swap any sigil you prefer. As you see the comments – different people prefer different game-styles.
[edit] Sigil of Air is the next best DPS sigil choice in case you’d prefer a non RNG sigil [/edit]
I just thought it might help people get the starting idea.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
How does frost trap help doing this? Why LB #4?
People step on the trap – get hit for nice numbers – get chilled – you push them back into the trap with a Projectile Finisher #4 (or behind the trap – forcing them to take a round around the trap).
Then you hit another Projectile Finisher of Hunter’s Shot – another chill and you get a chance to reposition. The target should be at around 9 seconds of chill and you should have all the time in the world to snipe them down.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
This thread says it all. I 100% agree.
People just like to complain instead of actually trying them. That being said I am all for a little bit of flavor for flame/frost trap. They are completely viable right now and lack of ground targeting certainly is not a problem but I wish they also made those traps a bit more interesting.
Frost Trap gets pretty interesting with Longbow #4. You know, kiting around with bonus damage and Chill through Ice Field is an entertaining game-play.
You can try the double stealth (Quick Draw + Hunter’s Shot) with this trap, too. It works wonders. I wouldn’t call it meta or anything, but it definitely is fun.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I made one build like that. I’ll give you a link to the thread.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
They nerfed the longbow/gs combo. The GS might be better if you spec for it but then you can’t fully spec for the longbow. Not sure why they would change everything up that didn’t need changing so that returning players can no longer play their favorite builds.
They can play Longbow builds without traiting for it.
They buffed GS thousandfold. Do you realize you are asking for playing double buffed spec you played before? Which is not really playing the one you played before but the one 2 times more powerful.
LB/GS is still a thing in PvP.
And for PvE: LB was taken before GS just because the highest DPS output came from sword #1 spam and we didn’t even swap weapons. So you started with #5 LB and #2 and never took it out again.
Edit: They can play more powerful versions of their former build. If they do not like it – they can run with 0-0-0. Or leave some of the traits out.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
The only useful trap is spike, pairing with an interrupt build.
GS (2 potential interrupts) / Shortbow (#5) / Taunt on pet f2 / Spike Trap / Nightmare runes .. Paired with quick draw puts your concussion shot untraited from 25 seconds to 7-8 seconds… Allows for alot of interrupts.
Other than that, traps are utter kitten.
Poison and Flame traps are both viable in PvE.
And Ice Trap is pretty viable on power builds now. It deals considerable damage.
So you’re saying you would take Ice trap over
Lightning Reflexes, Renewal Signet, Stone Signet and lose stun breaks and defensive utilities that you would need for a power build? Because you kind of need those for a viable power build. Atleast from a PvP perspective who scrims good players constantly like Phanta, Noscoc, etc…. Traps will never be viable on that tier of gameplay, ever. Not before the patch, not after the patch. Traps are just a ‘well, they’re not great, but i enjoy the playstyle’ thing and it ends at that. Which is fine, if you like the style of play traps bring then so be it, but they are FAR from viable.
I was having my moments of success with Flame Trap, Spike Trap, Signet of Renewal alone. I had condition cleanse, I had lots of evades, I had Stun Breaker, I had sustain and I won several 1v2 fights. Once won a 1v3 where I downed all of them (got downed myself) but a friendly stealth thief came to stomp one to help me out.
Yes, I can imagine point bunkers with traps even in competitive. There’s lots of ways to utilize. People were saying that morph Necros are unviable and yet some tournaments included those (even though the team was built to support them up).
Yet you are ignoring the most important fact here.
Traps are not sPvP oriented only. Have you ever used Guard in PvE? Well I haven’t and I wasn’t complaining about it’s “usefulness” in the game. And some people made a very powerful build of the PvE useless ability for very powerful sustainable regen Ranger. And it was powerful in both WvW and PvP.
Abilities are not made to be perfect and meta for every single game mode at the same time. You had the game going for a few days. The meta’s going to change a lot in time.
Just because you haven’t found a single use for the trap it doesn’t mean there is none. The Frost Trap alone now deals more damage than Maul, provides 15 seconds of AoE chill, provides Ice Field for better sustain (Frost Armor).
And just because you don’t see the potential of this ability in PvP it doesn’t mean it’s useless as an ability itself.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
The least amount of coding then would be to move the activation of Quick Draw’s activation at the start of a skill or buff it by 1 second. Altering Whirling Defense is another issue entirely.
Also, Quick Draw’s ICD starts on the weapon swap, not after it is used. Just tested it and held back doing a Maul with 1s left on the buff and obtained it on the next weapon swap.
And that’s why there is that 5 second interval as well, to prevent the abuse of tripple ability uses.
I’m aware that Whirling Defense is a completely different issue – but changing a completely different issue might hit 2 birds with 1 stone since it would solve it’s own issue as well as the subject of this topic.
“Observe, learn and counter.”