“Observe, learn and counter.”
Has any math been done with remorseless + quickdraw?
Remorseless would pretty much affect half of the Path of Scars (1 out of 2 hits). It increases the damage of your next attack – which is pretty meh considering Rapid Fire is 10 attacks (boost would only go up to a 10,25) and path of scars is still 2 hits. So you’d get 2,25 of that.
It can’t even be compared to the global 10% damage buff.
If Greatsword was the second weapon and Thrash was the subject – it might look like something with potential, but Remorseless is a clear PvP spike damage trait.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Any thoughts on if zerk is still going to be the go to gear set for PVE rangers? the same goes for ranger runes vs scholar runes. Maths will have to be done once the patch actually hits and things are more permanent. If axe or sb did more direct damage i could see rampagers competing with zerk for best dps.
My guess is that Dungeons and such will … Most likely stay in Zerk Meta.
The End Game / Living World content will be dominated through Sinister Stats.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
edit: with the improved pet stats + Natural regeneration buffing healing power, would that make the invigorating bond heal worthwhile?
This is hard to say, but the Invigorating scales of your healing power, not your pet’s. But then again, things can change.
But I can see some interesting sustain thing going on with Invigorating Bond and Sylvan Hound paired. But then again… It’s just the combination that goes interesting. Not the trait itself.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
ATTENTION
Everyone who keeps talking about the “loose” of damage modifiers…
… We didn’t loose a single one. We got one for PvE in return.Before the changes you couldn’t afford to take all the steroids and boosts. Yes, you had a choice to take them – but by doing so you lost the access to the rest.
Currently you have better access to steroids than before. This is a fact.
Master Trait X.png Eagle Eye Increases longbow and harpoon gun range. Longbow and harpoon gun damage is increased.
Grandmaster Trait ranger.png Hunter’s Tactics Deal more damage while flanking.
You were saying?You mean that Eagle Eye that had ZERO place in PvE meta, and Deal more Damage while flanking that is the even higher steroid in PvE meta than before?
(10% crit with 200% Crit Damage is the same as 10% flat damage boost. But you see, I currently have 219% crit damage on my ranger. This is a buff to both direct and condi builds)Sir, you have no idea how Ranger and his mechanics work. I’d like you to stop being skeptical if you have no idea what the outcome is.
Eagle eye that had no place in said META? Exactly my problem with this META. If a classes main use is not viable it is in fact BROKEN. Thank you for making that even more clear. A RANGER that has it’s SPECIALIZED weapon be ineffective means it is in fact broken.
Rangers main use in PvE is Spotter Trait and Frost Spirit. And that’s viable. Sir, please reconsider your replies. You fall into category of people with lack of knowledge and you keep misleading other people.
Your numbers are wrong, so are your “facts” and opinions. Even after being explained where is the mistake in your thought process, you keep being bullheaded without any argument whatsoever.
If you want to prove something – do it by proving it, not repeating something that has already been proven wrong.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
ATTENTION
Everyone who keeps talking about the “loose” of damage modifiers…
… We didn’t loose a single one. We got one for PvE in return.Before the changes you couldn’t afford to take all the steroids and boosts. Yes, you had a choice to take them – but by doing so you lost the access to the rest.
Currently you have better access to steroids than before. This is a fact.
Master Trait X.png Eagle Eye Increases longbow and harpoon gun range. Longbow and harpoon gun damage is increased.
Grandmaster Trait ranger.png Hunter’s Tactics Deal more damage while flanking.
You were saying?
You mean that Eagle Eye that had ZERO place in PvE meta, and Deal more Damage while flanking that is the even higher steroid in PvE meta than before?
(10% crit with 200% Crit Damage is the same as 10% flat damage boost. But you see, I currently have 219% crit damage on my ranger. This is a buff to both direct and condi builds)
Sir, you have no idea how Ranger and his mechanics work. I’d like you to stop being skeptical if you have no idea what the outcome is.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Aegis means little next to a Ranger that can AoE Blind for 5s and Weaken for 4s every 4.75s.
Aegis means a lot when blinds don’t. And 1 AOE blind every 5s vs a Thief that can do it 100%… Yeah. When it’s blind, weakness means nothing. And between Weakness and Aegis, Aegis is better.
But with Thief that doesn’t belong to the meta (no party steroids) you can choose between AoE blind every 5 sec. and weakness every 4 sec for 4,75…
… I’d take Blind and Weakness.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
ATTENTION
Everyone who keeps talking about the “loose” of damage modifiers…
… We didn’t loose a single one. We got one for PvE in return.
Before the changes you couldn’t afford to take all the steroids and boosts. Yes, you had a choice to take them – but by doing so you lost the access to the rest.
Currently you have better access to steroids than before. This is a fact.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
2 x Ele
1 x PS
1 x SA Thief
1 x Frost Spotter with Axe OHMeta.
Wishful thinking. Sure it will be a good comp, but the ranger hate will stop it from becoming meta & there is the thing that jack of all trades or not, ranger reflecting still sucks donkey balls.
I don’t really care about Puggy arrogant Full Zerk 32 000+ AP Kick if you are not warrior runs.
I play with people that play for enjoyment or effectiveness. And Ranger will be the one bringing numbers to the table.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
2 x Ele
1 x PS
1 x SA Thief
1 x Frost Spotter with Axe OHMeta.
I can see this coming.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I think it always did.
I might be wrong but I believe it will. Of course – you can’t knock down a downed target but traps should activate.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I rarely use Protect Me when with full health.
I usually take the 1st hit because mitigation abilities are my last resort. I always bet on control or mobility.
Same here mate, but now there is a good reason to try and mitigate their initial burst, they waste CDs and your pet only takes half the damage. After that, you still have everything else left, plus your regen and swiftness and PM is only 48s CD.
Just figure it is nice synergy and useful at times.
No I mean … Protect me and stuff is most likely the Shout build. By casting Protect Me you will get regen (I assume we’ll want healing power with that one) and that’s a waste if you cast it at full health.
But if you have quick reflexes you might get the full potential of pressing it at 90% and healing back to 100.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Well if it’s to be a rotation playstyle, why not go with gsword then? Quickdraw mauls and better autottacks than LB, altho the lack of cripple might hurt the predator’s onlsaught bonus . Maul/gsword aa are all cleave as well.
Having 3 Mauls instead of 2 (4 instead of 3 if you take the -20%CD trait) is not even a choice comparing to Rapid Fire.
Also, full AA-chain with Greatsword deals the exact same DPS as Longbow’s Melee shots.
Greatsword will have better mobility, defense, AoE and will be a subject for control. There is a nice synergy with Quick Draw and Moment of Clarity but that doesn’t belong to this thread.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I rarely use Protect Me when with full health.
I usually take the 1st hit because mitigation abilities are my last resort. I always bet on control or mobility.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Are you using Quick Draw as Skirmishing grandmaster?
Indeed. I thought it was obvious so I didn’t really mention it.
Without it – the double Path of Scars and Rapid Fires wouldn’t be possible.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
To be honest, you used Wolves for CC before.
Now you can use Bears for the very same purpose.I can see the BearBow meta becoming meaningful for PvP.
By the way – I made a new topic about PvE DPS. The Bow part is becoming meta there, too.Yep although i think condition builds will come strong. And BM line like a must.
We both agree here.
But I can still find some people cautious around that trait… Since pets will still have issues with surviving (much lover, but still) and if you wanted the pet to be extremely scary and sustainable – you’d have to sacrifice Quick Draw (Boon Sharing to pet in NM, Bark Skin in Wilderness).
“Observe, learn and counter.”
To be honest, you used Wolves for CC before.
Now you can use Bears for the very same purpose.
I can see the BearBow meta becoming meaningful for PvP.
By the way – I made a new topic about PvE DPS. The Bow part is becoming meta there, too.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Greetings people.
I got myself to look at numbers once again and see what’s been changed and what can be done about it. To begin with – I’ll be taking these number charts as a help https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tuDz1x50hIhREdfWni7Eim9MbG8cDRkIuuIsioXdruc/edit#gid=0
(thank you sebrent)
Note- Quickening Zephyr, Signet of the Wild, Spotter, Frost Spirit or any other boosts are not included here – these buffs are available to both current and upcoming system and have no effect on the results. Traits explained at the end
For PvE – the standard rotation will now actually include longbow as a set part of the rotation. Yep, the numbers go up if you do. Even in melee range.
We can easily assume that instead of auto-attacks we will be using rotations (10 sec long). These will consist of 2 sets of Path of Scars and 2 Rapid Fire abilities instead of one.
Today’s 10 sec. damage sequence goes like this:
Barrage > Rapid Fire >
// Path of Scars > Pure AA footage for 15 seconds // repeat
For clarifying I’ll write the cast times.
Barrage: 2,25 (760 DPS) 30 (10) sec CD
Rapid Fire: 2,5 (1575 DPS) 10 sec (3,3) CD
Path of Scars: 0,5 (2400 DPS) 15 sec (5) CD
Today’s DPS starts at
4,75 sec Bow precast resulting in 9000 damage initial damage >
> 0,5 sec Path of Scars for 1200 damage and a pure AA fest for 1055 DPS.
That’s a total of 10200 dmg in ~6 seconds (seconds rounded up from 5,25 for human factor) which equals 1700 dps
And from this point the DPS drops to 1055.
New rotation will consist of the very same opener with the very same results which is 1700 dps for 6 seconds and then it drops to:
Sword AA chain with another Path of Scars – which is sacrificing 1 attack of the chain (~630) for 1200 damage. The DPS will be slightly higher but with noticeable spike.
The number of DPS in Sword Setup is 1169.
Then we swap to Longbow rotation that will include 2 Rapid Fire streams and the rest goes to melee shots:
8000 damage per 5 seconds = 1600 dps, the rest is auto shots for 735 DPS. This rotation results in overall 1167 DPS with 2 noticeable spikes and 20 vulnerability (this wasn’t available before – this is a huge buff). Note that we also get 50% fury uptime (that is irrelevant since we get it 100% of the PvE content in groups anyways – still a buff to solo)
Here comes the rage part we had not-so-long ago.
The traits and the damage modifiers we lost.
Well, currently we are in possession of Steady Focus (10), Spotter (7 crit), Predator’s Onslaught (10) from Marksmanship
Hunter Tactics (10) from Skirmishing
And that’s all folks. This is all we currently have.
Now for the upcoming builds we get:
Steady Focus (10), Predator’s Onslaught (10; note that pet damage is 10, up from 5) from Marksmanship
Spotter (7), Hunter Tactics (10 crit) from skirmishing
Bountiful Hunter (1 per boon, 6 is the usual amount of boons active) from Wilderness Survival.
So, while we all kept weeping over our precious 25% lost modifiers … Do you have any idea how overpowered would that become once you know what the new Ranger PvE meta looks like? Don’t forget you’ll get Protective Ward for better survivability as well.
And you can sacrifice the Bountiful Hunter for Beast Mastery for Quickness, Might and much more powerful pets (without fortifying bond, though – but this will be a competitive choice).
tl;dr Please Welcome Rangers to the new buffed PvE meta. Hope this insight helps.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
It does. You might really want that +3might and Quickness from Beast Mastery as a Zerk Sniper. There is that possibility you know.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Just wanted to get a clarification on the “AoE” cleansing part.
Only the “Guard” ability is a subject for Rune that cleanses, right? The rest affect us and pets only. Or am I mistaken ?
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Heal as One can now apply 10 seconds of Swiftness/10 Seconds of Regen and recharge 20% faster now with that Beastmaster adept trait
407hp/s just from cd reduction alone without counting regen. Gg wp
Meanwhile Invigorating Bond that has 110hp/s
“Observe, learn and counter.”
There might be a disruptor bunker build.
With so much defensive traits and evades we got I believe there has to be one.
Probably a Hound + Hyena BM, with Spike and Ice Traps, Signet of Renewal, entangle, Celestial stats, Healing Spring (you can basically have 2) and SA / AD
I don’t know… But Path of Scars on 5 second cooldown with 3 knockdowns from pets and taunts that fit into it, as well as spike trap and perma chill, not to mention blindness and weakness permanently applied…
It’s just a swift idea, I don’t have a clue if it works yet. No numbers made. Just an idea.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I support removing damage modifiers.
It helps close the gap between Power and Condition building, especially since they were careful to replace them with things like Crit-chance and Might that straddle the line between.I also wanted to say your Trait comments seem really on point, for the most part:
- Attack of Opportunity is weak and niche, and by extension, ‘Moment of Clarity’ is too.
- ‘Strider’s Defense’ getting some kind of closing is sensible and even suits the name better. ….Bonus points for somehow swinging that.
- AOE Condi Cleanse is exactly what is needed for Invigorating Bond and Nature Magic (and heck even Poison Master in a round-about way).
- Stacking ‘Light on Your Feet’ seems like a natural call.
One stack downplays the choice of purposefully burning defense for offense.
As one stack is so commonplace you may as well wait for it to come naturally, but dodging back-to-back is unusual and requires conscious commitment to trade it off for more offense. Gameplay about making use of a damage increase on your opponent’s terms isn’t bad – but it’s not nearly as deep as having the trait make you choose between pre-emptive risk/reward and reactive twitch tactics.- Precision to ‘Most Dangerous Game’ is…alright.
But honestly I kind of think this trait needs to feature something at the ‘end’ or otherwise increase non-linearly. :01 shouldn’t be exactly as rewarding as :08 ; the latter is alot harder to get to. And, honestly I’d likely unload while I still had SotW and Quickness from other traits, so getting to the full stack might actually feel anticlimactic as most things I’d want to ‘do’ with it would still be on cooldown.Strange, why ranger is ok to “remove damage modifier” to close the gap between condition and power, whereas other classes are allowed to have all kinds of easy 20% (like after using burst) and 10% modifier across the board.
I disagree with the idea of “closing the gap”.
Direct damage is supposed to be a double edged weapon. Deadly but fragile.
Conditions were … Safe and sound. But without burst.
Well Rangers have been the only class I can think of ever since I’ve been playing this without bursty direct damage. And no, Rapid fire is still not a burst, just as Maul isn’t a true burst either. Yep, the cooldowns are to be noted too.
If you “close the gap” this way – there won’t be any competition whatsoever. Conditions will just overwrite Direct Damage and you won’t see a single Zerk. Just as you don’t see conditions today.
And Ranger’s direct damage is still worse than conditions. A condition you have to apply and wait. Ranger has to keep pressing #1 over and over and over again to maintain the damage. Not to mention that his damage stops if he has to dodge by any chance.
As the only class with direct damage without burst – Rangers need their direct damage to be higher than other classes. And I can’t see it coming with these changes.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
…
Do note many of the teleportation break-stun and can be casted while CCed.
It does nothing to blink Mesmer and Shadow-step thief anyway.For mesmer, it’s even worse cause they’d most like summon clones/ phantasm to waste your trap first.
Point taken. I just remembered Mesmers will reflect the CC back to me after the changes. Shame on me.
But I will come up with a valid build one day! Mark my words!
“Observe, learn and counter.”
jcbroe
There is one build, though that I believe has more potential then ever.
Sniper Ranger, that is.
You already know that our only weakness are teleporting classes that can sneak behind your back. Well guess what happens if they (by any chance) step on a spike trap that slaps them with a knockdown that will allow you to smack the hell out of them with Quick Draw Greatsword options.
But here is the twist. If you pay close attention, you’ll notice that Marksmanship… Does not really offer that much for Longbow apart from it’s Last Grandmaster trait.
Think of it this way: Full Zerk setup, Longbow + Greatsword
Skirmishing: Trapper’s Expertise, Spotter, Quick Draw
Nature Magic: Instinctive Reaction, Evasive Purity, Protective Ward
BeastMastery: Go for the Eyes, Wilting Strike, Zephyr’s Speed
Abilities: Healing Spring ; Spike Trap, Quickening Zephyr, Lightning Reflexes ; Entangle
The only thing to keep in Mind is all the reflects and stuff. But a Zerk build that actually capitalizes on people who try to come close is another story.
But well, having a healing spring sit under our feet while our CD is getting back with the same scenario on Spike Trap is what I call a safe Zerk.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
Mentioning or not, they could have just forgotten.
We don’t know yet. Any reply here will be an assumption that cannot be confirmed.
EDIT: As long as anduriell keeps his skeptical attitude, I’d like to mention that they haven’t said a word about healing skills and RaO becoming shouts,traps and survival skills.
And we all could take a hint that Healing Spring is becoming a trap. Yet, they forgot to mention it and it’s not in the general changes.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
I have my doubts on that. I think conditions will become very powerful and more people will start running it.
I just don’t see people getting past the condi-clear meta. Doesn’t matter if you can put 1500 stacks of confusion on someone, it just won’t stick. Unless things go back to small skirmishes instead of team fights.
I do agree more people will run condis; I think everyone will run them at first. But then once people realize warriors and eles (and now engis) exist, that will fade away.
Yep, that are my thoughts exactly.
But I still think that reapplying mechanics like spirits and traps might work just fine. I mean, they wouldn’t have last for long and if it’s cleansed it will just reapply itself.
And don’t forget that with beast mastery we are getting a high variety of condition protection via weakness blinds etc. Conditions will be a tough style but might have it’s place. Especially with the new stacking and Rangers being in possession of the highest poison access.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
They might have not mentioned it but it seems like off-hand weapon range was buffed baseline. Someone said that database had those increased numbers. If it isn’t the case, that’s pretty sad.
Speed for pets is a 3rd minor trait in Beast Master hand in hand with +30% crit damage.
They bring Pet Prowess your pets move faster.
I mean we miss the two most important BM traits in game right now: the one that reduce the CD in pet skills (F2) and the ones that make our pets attack faster.
Adept – Speed Training – Reduces recharge on pet skills.ANOTHER MASSIVE NERF
Not that massive. Our pets were buffed in predator’s onslaught, sharpened edges affect our pet now, too. Our pets will deal 10% more damage while we are above 90% hp.
And I don’t remember our pets attacking faster. There is no trait even today that makes our pet attack faster (except quickness). If you mean F2, I already told you to look at Minor Traits. http://imgur.com/a/xr2FQ
EDIT: If the ability had 40 second cooldown before the trait, it would have 36 second after the trait. The difference is so unbelievable that I might not fall asleep tonight. I don’t think I’ll miss it.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
With a bit of might stacking, which we will get to a degree, celestial ranger might still be a pretty good thing in PvP. Might be a decent buff.
I have my doubts on that. I think conditions will become very powerful and more people will start running it.
And with our condi removal hindered by facts which we all have been repeating for centuries (hello grandmaster traits) – we might not be competitive at all.
We might deal the damage but we will receive as much.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Very nice post and i agree with all of it.
Just one reminder:
We lost several trait that also were used because they were very impportant:Off hand training Now off hand axe lost all the range. Also the split the weapons traits so now if you only want the CD redunction and larger range in torch and dagger you has to chosse two different trait lines.
This is a nerf considering that other classes even got the opposite. Mediguardian only need to use 1 trait point to have all the bennefits of 3 actual traits.Keen Edge We lost the bleeds it could give on crits.
Speed Training this basic trait to make pets faster is lost. At least i can’t find it and it is one of the most important for pets.
Commanding Voice is this one available after the patch? I mean having a lot of new effects when F2 and not being able to reduce the CD (that could be even 40 secs) is silly.Those ones are the ones i can think of right now. But i’m pretty sure they deleted more.
Instead they give us some shiny trash and expect us to not notice (like the +150 point in pets attributes)
They might have not mentioned it but it seems like off-hand weapon range was buffed baseline. Someone said that database had those increased numbers. If it isn’t the case, that’s pretty sad.
Speed for pets is a 3rd minor trait in Beast Master hand in hand with +30% crit damage.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
Few things:
(1)
Moment of Clarity also works with Shortbow’s #5. It mainly benefits from the +100% duration on the daze/stun as it doesn’t have any strong single-hit attacks … but you could interrupt with it, swap to Greatsword, Maul, Hilt Bash, Maul again … I have actually been playing around with non-standard builds lately on my Ranger and having such long dazes/stuns is really nice … people definitely don’t expect Shortbow / Greatsword, lol.…
Do you see the point here? You yourself said Shortbow doesn’t benefit from the trait. The stun duration is a stun duration. It would work regardless of the weapon. The trait has close to zero effect. 50% damage bonus damage is like bonus 200 bonus damage on shortbow on a 25 sec. CD. No point in having the bonus damage in the 1st place.
Maul and Path of Scars are the only abilities that can be considered a burst and are useful with this. Path of Scars cannot be triggered within the weapon set (and will trigger on useless low damage auto-attacks) and Maul has it’s own weapon interrupt.
The damage portion of the trait is wrong-made. However much you’ll try to defend it, it needs a change.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
@mistsim
Now that you mention it, you have the regeneration from Healing Spring buffed too. Okay, I take my words back. What you said makes perfect sense.
For a strange reason I didn’t think of the fact that with current functionality you invested into Prec and Fero stats and all the traits were blown there.
Yup, I can see the potential. I’ll correct myself in a second.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Just a question, is Lick Wound still bugged under water?
Pretty sure, it used to be that the pet would keep rezzing even while dead, when under water.
I saw people complaining about it not so long ago. And I think there wasn’t anything mentioned about fixing this issue.
I believe the bug still is here.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
@Mistsim
I can see your point but the idea still persists.
Why isn’t anyone speccing for traps in sPvP now?
Because you were too vulnerable if you did. You couldn’t choose utilities for Condi Clear or Signet of the Stone, neither Lightning Reflexes because you were glued to traps and you couldn’t afford both Empathic Bond and Wilderness Survival.
And guess what’s going to be the very same problem again. Except the choice of both Wilderness Knowledge and Empathic bond now goes for every ranger out there.
It’s not like that AoE conditions and slight disruption isn’t good looking on paper. It’s just that I still can’t see it anywhere near competing the immortal elementalist with 4 blast finishers, AoE damage of the same (if not higher) scale but much better sustain and mobility. CC too. Elementalist just has to choose a weapon to get every single mechanic he might have wished for.
If you want one, you just have to dedicate 2 trait lines, 3 utilities, a pet, an Identity Card and a Bank Account and Last Will to get something that doesn’t even compare to stuff that meta classes already have baseline and you wouldn’t believe but it’s getting buffed further this update.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Rapid Fire is a channel skill – and like all skills it goes on cooldown after finishing it’s cast.
Lick Wounds is an instant cast that orders your pet to go into a state of reviving you. Think of it as RaO. You cast it fast but the effect lasts much longer. The same goes for Lick Wounds. The ability stops only if you kill the pet or the ranger, or the caster sets another order such as F2 ability or swaps pets.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
…
Traps – They got major buff, now don’t take this wrong way but your complaining about Trap runes come on mate that is just plain stupid they have nothing to do with Ranger class there rune set. That aside now at first I figured losing being able to throw the traps would be a problem but when you take look at some of the other trait lines I can see some major combo’s you can pull off using the traps.
Traps will be doing more damage and buff to Spike/Frost trap was rather big, you can combo that with other trait lines rather well hint “beastmaster”. Traps will become meta again and be rather strong, they will lose their effectiveness I believe in team fight’s with buffs to Bunker Guard getting more condition remove and more effective ways to heal there team but that is fine its apart of the game.
…
Some clarification on this.
Yes, it’s true that some traps were buffed. Ice Trap and Spike Trap are the example. But condition damage went down a lot. The “buffs” to condition traps were nothing else than a standardization to current condition system. By not being able to apply them from a safe distance – you risk a lot.
The point of trapper ranger is that you have to sacrifice all your utility skills to put them to work. And in melee range that’s a problem.
It’s not the numbers that were nerfed. It’s the use-in-practice that carries higher risk than reward for the changes.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I can get their idea.
It’s more responsive like this. You feel like something’s changed in your play-style.
Sadly, the numbers are too weak. But 20% recharge means 20% more poison, faster evades, more cripple uptime (bleeds via pet), faster stun… And you can stun 5 people if lucky with #5.
The trait itself is not supposed to be damage boost only. It shouldn’t be a straight 10% damage increase like other weapons. At least that’s what I think.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Result of the changes
- Rangers are currently out of any competitive environment. We lack competitive PvP strengths.
- We have nothing to offer for WvW Zerg environment and we aren’t even best at roaming and we are weak at solo or scouting.
- Our class is still not the top tier in PvE.
- Every class should have a place in the current system, at least one. While Rangers didn’t have any single scene, there were classes that excelled in every single one (Eles, Warriors, Guardians). While other classes got buffed in every single scenario, we got nerfed at places we never were strong at.
Conclusion: If ranger as a class wants to hold more than 5% of GW2 population, changes need to be made. Currently as it goes – no one is going to appreciate the Ranger. Not even players who played the class for enjoyment.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
—Condition Cleanse
This has been mentioned several times. Rangers lack condition cleanse apart from traits. And both Condi cleansing options are in the same trait line and the same Grandmaster tier. That’s wrong and this needs to be addressed.
We either need more condi cleanse on our abilities/glued to other traits or we need Empathic Bond on a lower tier. It’s not worth the Grandmaster anyways.
~Consider adding condition removal to Invigorating Bond / Warhorn / Spirits and reconsider Empathic Bond with Wilderness Knowledge overlapping each other
—Survivability
Rangers are now in immense range of defensive options, tools, traits and utilities that have been addressed with nice precision. Good job on that one A-net. You really deserve a thumb up for these changes.
—Support Options
As the title says – we currently have the potential to keep 100% uptime of swiftness, regeneration and while in combat even Fury. We also provide unique 7% crit via Spotter.
But the question is… Is any of that a difference? Fury is provided by 3 other classes, swiftness is not really unique and we are not even best at applying it. Perma Regen sounds like the only thing that is unique and has potential for sPvP.
With the new spirits we lost our disruptive potential because you could activate the spirit 2 times. Casting the ability and on it’s death (and you can be sure it died fast). We lost our supportive nature (we can’t support anymore, we can only bunker a point and even that is nerfed because we lost the only reliable source of Rally – which was Elite Spirit dying).
Rangers need a defining way of supporting people, and if we get none – we at least need to be on the same level as other supporting classes in case we dedicate our whole build to it. We all know I’m talking about Eles and Engis here. They can support by speccing into offense.
Traits with wrong idea/value
- Moment of Clarity – this trait only works with Greatsword. It’s weak with other weapons including Longbow.
~Consider making this trait affect no auto-attacks but abilities only - Strider’s Defense – this trait is not appealing. The abilities are used in times of need, not on cooldown. For PvE runs Spotter is still the answer which means this trait needs utility. 25% RNG deflect is just not worth and cooldown reduction is pointless. One of the biggest problems of the Sword is no gap closer. This is a wonderful place to hit the nail on the head.
~Consider giving 25% movement speed while wielding sword to it’s current functionality - Light on Your Feet – the idea is good. The numbers are far below the grandmaster. It’s worth Adept at best. Consider increasing the duration to 7 seconds and ability to stack this effect (not per attack dodged but per dodge used) – than it’s going to be okay. We have high access to vigor and there are Sigils of Energy. But currently – the damage boost is a joke.
- Most Dangerous game – this trait is currently not worth a grandmaster. Under 50% health you are putting your life on the line and for this trait to work you need to stay below 50%. Enlargement is currently better this trait in functionality and value.
~Consider buffing this trait to add Ferocity in addition to Might every few seconds for better synergy with Remorseless - Poison Master is not going to be picked. Ever. Reasons is that this is the only place for Condition Removal. And even the Poison Master got nerfed. This trait can be saved only if Rangers other issues are addressed.
- Invigorating Bond – explained in survivability. This trait has potential but needs more than 110 heal per second value. For a Grandmaster that is.
~Consider adding cleansing mechanic to it’s current functionality - Honed Axes – I just don’t get why would anyone want Ferocity on this. No one’s ever going to focus on Direct Damage with Axes. And Ferocity is a Pure Zerk stat. The AoE part of the trait is fine.
~Consider changing Ferocity into Precision for synergy with other traits (bleeding & might for pet on crits)
__________________________________________
I’d like to continue this thread with a calm and constructive manner to keep it as clear and easy to follow as possible. Any comments, ideas, shared proposals, intents or disagreements with my proposed changes are very welcome.
Let ArenaNet know they made a mistake but they still have plenty of ways to improve and fix their miscalculations. We, after all, are the ones who suffered through so many years of being inferior to other classes in positive attitude and objective views
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
This thread will contain constructive criticism about the Ranger changes that need to be reconsidered. As a low-to-mid tier class in every single environment we need to avoid getting nerfed at this important time of changes.
This thread is a highly recommended for developers of A-net to read through as a suggestion list to correct their decisions that are clearly causing a frustration within a large community of Rangers.
I tried to do my best to gather all the issues at 1 place.
______________________________________
The thread will include:
- traps
- spirits (important)
damage modifiers (important) - condition cleanse
- survivability
- support options
- random traits from every line (important)
- result of the changes
—Traps
Traps got nerfed in arming time and got their condition durations buffed just like every single condition in the game so far. Overall nerf with the only outcome of Destroying the Rune of the Trapper for Spike Trap and now even Ice Trap (damage added to pulses).
Moreover, the definition of traps is even more ignored since no one cares about stepping in them – everyone will just want to walk out. We still have them as condition bombs that we no longer can throw from a safe distance, the 2 sec cripple is not even funny as a compensation.
- The Trap changes are a nerf we didn’t deserve. No one was using them before, no one will use them now.
~ Consider giving traps a defining mechanic that will make people want to avoid them such as 1sec. Daze, Root, Knockdown, Fear, 1 Boon strip. We already have options to cripple or chill the enemy
—Spirits
They got a whole rework, but whoever designed them forgot the main point of the Spirit Ranger. It’s Support. To do this efficiently – we sacrifice every utility slot – being unable to support ourselves. Moreover, the support comes in 2 ways – defensive in terms of mitigation and recovery and offensive – in terms of damage and control.
What PvE says – the spirits are ruined. Frost Spotter now lacks “Frost”. If you can’t move your spirit and the cooldown increased – it clearly means your Frost Spirit won’t be even at 50% of the dungeon assuming he can’t follow you.
What PvP says – the main reason for Spirit Ranger was his multi-rally button. That was the only reason the Spirit Ranger had a place in PvP teams – and now we got stripped of the “multi” part and got stuck only with the unreliable activate button that can be interrupted.
Spirits were nerfed for it’s main competitive purpose for PvP where spirits die to AoE and conditions that we have no awareness of – meaning that Active Part of the skill is not available for the most part. If you decide to use it – you may as well consider spirits an active abilities on 30 second cooldown without passives because you have to blow them immediately. Spirit Rangers are Team Supports where their mechanic die on sight.
~Consider giving us back the “trigger on death” mechanic by default and reconsider death of Elite Spirit upon activation as well as reducing it’s cooldown by noticeable amount (30-50%)
—Damage modifiers
Rangers were at a decent place in PvE environment including dungeon runs. Now that Frost Spirit is annihilated (explained above) for PvE, we need something to compensate this loss. Strangely enough – the only thing we received was a straight damage nerf in terms of missing damage modifiers.
Rangers lack Direct Damage spikes which logically asks for other mechanics in return. If we lack damage spikes – we should have unique support on a massive scale, but we don’t. Or we should have immense utility that would make you want a Ranger, but we don’t. If we have nothing of the above – we should have the highest passive spike-less damage output – but we don’t, since classes that deal damage in burst form have even higher DPS by doing that.
- By taking out Ranger damage modifiers – the only damage Rangers deal is way too low even if everything is invested into damage. That being said – while this game is about killing targets – classes that can’t do anything but kill stuff should be rewarded by doing so. Warriors can run Phalanx, Rangers can only deal damage, thus we need to deal a lot of it even if passively. We do not want the damage back. We need the damage back.
~Consider giving us back the damage modifiers at whichever place you feel like it. Bountiful hunter giving 5% baseline and 1% for every bonus boon is one of the options
Edit: I made the maths behind. I am terribly sorry for my mistake from earlier. With the Quick Draw we are going to possess damage spikes and our DPS went up a teeny bit.
Thank you A-net, we love you.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
The support build might happen to tumble over wanting to get people up… But that’s probably it. And you don’t really need the support dedicated build that much as a ranger.
Your job is to prevent people from getting downed, after all. If you want to ress people up, you’d need protection in the 1st place.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
…
That’s new, i need someone to create a meaningful and complex topic to complain about everyone else sees. Interesting…
Every single topic made is nothing but a mere loud cry with a slight scratch or hint of the problem till now. Do you, by any chance want to tell me that what everyone else sees is not true?
I don’t even know why I’m replying to this when I already know the point was to attack my person in a passively aggressive way…
“Observe, learn and counter.”
because Anet sees the rangers as the pariah in GW2. Not funny at all after all the hours invested in my ranger.
Just stop it.
It’s not funny, it’s not interesting and I already saw that on twelve different places today. Just stop. However much your feelings got hurt you haven’t even tried the bloody changes and yet you cry here a river.Dude, if the Ranger is too weak we’ll find that out ourselves. But for Christ’s sake, I couldn’t really care less about the exaggeration you make. Do you think I’m playing the Ranger because it’s the meta? Do you really believe that anyone here does?
Just please, pretty please… Stop that bloody circus of yours.It is not about being meta and you know that already. But when no ranger is meta there is something objective yo can use to get a reference point of how bad this class is.
And i like to call the things by it’s name and ranger right now is the pariah of all the professions in GW2. You maybe don’t like the truth and that’s all right but with this balance changes we have been deeply nerffed that will aggravate the feelings when compared to other classes in game.
I can’t find any other adjectives to define the changes in this class and i think the final use of the profession will mark that feeling in all of rangers. You only need to read the forums to see how much the community is very disappointed with Anet.
Don’t get me wrong, I intend to make a summary of what went wrong (and there’s plenty of it) with their current changes tomorrow, since it’s late night at my place and I’m kind of tired already.
But all the fuss you make about these changes really feels like I’ve mistaken this place for a rebel camp. And I really had higher hopes for this community.
If you feel like something is wrong – say it. Do not try to show that your life is an agony, do not make yourself a victim, just say what went wrong, why and how it can be improved.
A-net clearly listened to us in several things, so far, from which some were really good ideas and some were … Well … Pointless fancy stuff (like healing Spring a trap) that wasn’t needed and I said it when the idea came out in forums. But no one listened and now everyone complains about what we asked for. And I fail to get amused once again.
But that’s how it goes. So calm down till I create a meaningful and complex topic about all the changes, explanations and reasoning. There will be plenty of space to express your feelings about that particular subject.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
because Anet sees the rangers as the pariah in GW2. Not funny at all after all the hours invested in my ranger.
Just stop it.
It’s not funny, it’s not interesting and I already saw that on twelve different places today. Just stop. However much your feelings got hurt you haven’t even tried the bloody changes and yet you cry here a river.Dude, if the Ranger is too weak we’ll find that out ourselves. But for Christ’s sake, I couldn’t really care less about the exaggeration you make. Do you think I’m playing the Ranger because it’s the meta? Do you really believe that anyone here does?
Just please, pretty please… Stop that bloody circus of yours.Post like these from blind Anet fans is why Anet doesn’t see anything wrong with how bad the balancing in this game is.
Well at least you can point a finger. Too bad you can’t read what a person wrote. But I don’t blame you. You all are probably at an overly aggressive state because of the nerfs and I feel for you.
But don’t drag me to the desperate state of yours. I’m not interested. If my days as a Ranger main end – I’ll reroll. No offense, but I don’t see how degrading my behavior to an 8 year old kid would help me get anywhere.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
because Anet sees the rangers as the pariah in GW2. Not funny at all after all the hours invested in my ranger.
Just stop it.
It’s not funny, it’s not interesting and I already saw that on twelve different places today. Just stop. However much your feelings got hurt you haven’t even tried the bloody changes and yet you cry here a river.
Dude, if the Ranger is too weak we’ll find that out ourselves. But for Christ’s sake, I couldn’t really care less about the exaggeration you make. Do you think I’m playing the Ranger because it’s the meta? Do you really believe that anyone here does?
Just please, pretty please… Stop that bloody circus of yours.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
The stream broke right as they were getting onto Beast Mastery trait line.
The info is from there. They are currently hosting some random players.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Yep guyz, just wanted to step by and tell you that our idea from another post of Search and Rescue being the ability cast instead of the trap has been confirmed on stream just now.
May Lyssa bless us all.
Cheers!
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Simply because several rangers were using the trait, it had a nice synergy with Shared Anguish and there was no reason to exterminate the trait in the 1st place.
The trait was used, the trait had it’s useful builds and was rewarding. It might not have been the most powerful trait in the universe, but then again, it’s like saying we don’t need Predator’s Onslaught because we have Peak Strength.
We might have the same mechanic somewhere else, but it doesn’t mean we might not welcome both.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
I won’t probably use it much in sPvP even if I’ll dedicate myself to melee builds. Quick Draw is a clear answer.
But for WvW… I can see the efficiency rising up a bit. One way or another, it’s still to early to set a verdict. We all will have to wait and see.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
It takes too long to test but melee attacks can be considered even Maul, Serpent’s Strike Hilt Bash etc.
When the chance is 50% I’ll definitely get a see into it. But currently I might spend 20 minutes testing without a valid proof because of RNG. It’s something different from auto-attacks that are without a cooldown.
“Observe, learn and counter.”