Guild Wars 2

KeyLimPi.9031:

I have a build that’s 2500 attack, 57% crit chance, 1800 toughness, 99% crit damage (all unbuffed), it’s in the way you theorycraft. Thief can absorb a little damage but we have RFI, SS, and IA for a reason. To book it if things get bad.

wow 2500 attack is low. u must be running full condition build. :P anyway dont use IA…..HS is much muuuuuch better. IA only does about 175 distance more.

pistol whip would be fine if it wasnt self rooting and also add the 15% back. which is basically only 15% more than auto attack.

Arganthium.5638:

Travlane.5948:

i guess its my fault for assuming that targets wore armor in spvp :P silly me lol. anyway just tested it. nowheres near.unless naked. it got close

So let me get this straight.

First, you’re going to insult somebody because something they say is impossible, and then using veiled insults on us to assume our stupidity after we prove you wrong- after all, something can’t be impossible if there’s even a single combination of variables that allows for it to occur. In this case, there was, and your only excuse to it was that it couldn’t happen against targets wearing armor. Except that that wasn’t the original problem; you initially said that it was impossible to do in PvP.

Then, you tell me that the damage is “nowhere near”, unless naked- which is what I actually said.

Finally, you say “it got close”, even though you don’t have anything to prove that you used all of the buffs that I previously mentioned, or to prove that you got “close” to the damage that was stated. How close is “close”? 100 damage? 3k damage?

And of course, all of this is considering that you have a reputation for being a major whiner and trying to act as if thieves are the ultimate underdogs that are given nothing and are persecuted by the mighty and evil ANet.

… Alright then.

thieves are on top in areas and underdogs in others. im not whining i just merely said what was propest as 18k+ backstabs or 28k backstabs or 15k backstabs are not possible in wvw……they arent…. i assumed we werent talking about naked characters using frenzy. so basically 2 players did 28k :P,,, not 1. its like sayign i can backstab for 1.5 million. you would normally say its not true. technically ur wrong it can be done…against a rakitten etc. but generally its not possible. i mean really who bases numbers/hits/%s etc on naked players….or squirrels/owls/mosquitos. just seemed like a silly way to go about considering top backstabs. lets ask how many people u have got (roughly) to spread epidemic on. then one person says 120 people but FAILS to mention they were all in 2 guilds cooperating with him to do so. i mean its something you should mention. not pass off as a picture thats showing only 10% of the real picture. thats trickery nothing more. if ur going to do /say silly things thats fine. just put the qualifier in quotes or something.

Daendur.2357:

over 1M on a rabbit.

see? he didnt say just 1m….he qualified how. not veiling it to be passed as a player hit.

melandru runes are greakittens like getting 6k extra hp per 1 v 1 fight. minimum :P take that everytime if ur a warrior.

@melodey… im a very seasoned player. :P i know the difference.

hard to say. i think it was nerfed or changed. shadow return on both skills are supposed to use the same coding if they are meant to be the same. so that said why would it be different in the first place? its bc they made it like that purposely………. its the non stealth way of escaping……its why theres a 14 sec timer instead of 10. extra time…or is that a bug too?

i guess its my fault for assuming that targets wore armor in spvp :P silly me lol. anyway just tested it. nowheres near.unless naked. it got close

its horrible. NEVER use this trait. ull be regretting you did almost every time. if you have non venoms equiped it can still recharge venoms…… useless

AikijinX.6258:

Arganthium.5638:

See, this is why your arguments are dreadful, and, furthermore, why nobody believes in your ridiculous QQ. So let me display the calculations for you.

BS (Back) has a coefficient of 2.4.
Dagger has an average weapon coefficient of 952.5.
Total crit damage = 150% + 15% (zerker amulet) + 5% (zerker jewel) + 30% (30 Crit strikes) + 8% (scholar runes) = 208%, or 2.08
30 DA = +300 Power
Zerker Amulet and Jewel = +923 Power
25 Stacks of Sigil of Corruption = +250 Power
Scholar Runes = +165 Power
Total Added Power = +1638
Assassin’s Signet (Active) = +15% damage
Flanking Strikes = +5% damage
Dagger Training = +5% damage
Exposed Weakness = +10% damage
Executioner = +20% damage
Enemy armor = 1000

Damage = (2.4)(952.5)(1638+Base Power of 916)/1000 = 5838.4

Damage * Signet * Flanking Strikes * Exposed Weakness * Dagger Training * Executioner * Crit Damage (assuming a crit hit) = 5838.4 * 3.83 = 22,356 damage, and that’s with more power than I had previously said. With just 1638 power (including base), it would have been

Damage = 3744.4

Damage * (previously stated buffs) = 3744.4 * 3.83 = 14.34k damage.

Obviously, then, it is possible. Also, I never said anything about PvP’ers being “upscaled”, I was referring to WvW there (I mentioned PvP later). Also, I suggest that upscales are hit harder, but only because they have different gear and traits, not because of their base stats.

Well put argument. I do agree with these calculations. I didn’t want to have to add my input. It’s all right here;)

1000 armor? is that what your entire argument hinges on? well i was assuming we were all intelligent…… idk… my thief have 2422 armor and runs full bersker or carrion. that is just as a theif……….

and aikijin…i really thought u were smarter than this guy. cmon. yeah i guess technically i am wrong u can do 14k in spvp on backstab. but if only if they are naked. im done having this argument. and upscales get hit harder….. no matter what that guy says. go pretend you can do stuff against naked players. real intelligent way to debate. heeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaw

idk what the ele team was running that i saw but one of them got me to 50% more than once so ….idk. i was running 22.6k hp so was no easy feat.

Azaruil.3406:

Travlane.5948:

ugh…i shouldnt have used p/d as an example. and i do die to classes other than thieve plenty of times. its not a kill all build. but any build thats offensive based should have a chance at some lvl to kill another. it shouldnt be a HARD COUNTER. ok let me switch to my necro. or my engineer. very condition heavy and reliant classes but also not great (perhaps some engi builds) in the 1 v 1 department. how do they deal with this?we all know that cripple/ice is a necros friend…..immobilize is an engineers lbest friend. why should they have a hard counter?

it doenst matter if you have +500% condition dmg….it wont mean diddly :P like i said the -40% cond dur is MUCH stronger than the +40% they are not equal.

The trait on ele and warriors is -33% immobilize, chill and cripple duration. This doesn’t effect other conditions.

You are right about the -40% condi duration being more powerful than the +40% condi duration but it seems you didn’t explain it clearly.

For starters, +% condi duration isn’t cumulative. It only seems to affect the base number. So lets say you have your base condi is 10 seconds and you have +30% duration from runes, +30% from traits and +40% from food. It wont add the +30% ones to 17 seconds and then apply the +40% to the 17 seconds, but instead the 10 seconds. The -% condi duration stacks on each other however.

Additionally, -% condi duration is applied after your total condi duration is applied. Let’s say your base condi is 10 seconds and you only add the food to give you 14 seconds. -40% would then put the condi at 8.4 seconds.

also the 65% is enough to cripple any build as is. but 98% on crip immob ice is just crazy……..ok check it out……when fightin an ele u know that they knock you down you know that they chill you alot and can even immobilize you. so the entire time you are tryign to catch up with them you ahve to do 2 things….. A) remove your chill/immob/cripple and cripple/immob/chill them which is 2% effective or basically might as well say 0. all the time they are just barely out of range and strike with the meat adn potatoes dmg ksills and then chill you or w.e. and step back until they are ready to rinse repeat. this is just what i noticed….i mean they have alot more heals than all but guardians so its hard to keep up the dmg when u cant keep them within range/enough condition dmg…..even conditions they dont have on 98% then can cleanse regularly. i mean i didnt lose to the ele…i could have if i didnt decide to accept the draw.

Azaruil.3406:

Travlane.5948:

ugh…i shouldnt have used p/d as an example. and i do die to classes other than thieve plenty of times. its not a kill all build. but any build thats offensive based should have a chance at some lvl to kill another. it shouldnt be a HARD COUNTER. ok let me switch to my necro. or my engineer. very condition heavy and reliant classes but also not great (perhaps some engi builds) in the 1 v 1 department. how do they deal with this?we all know that cripple/ice is a necros friend…..immobilize is an engineers lbest friend. why should they have a hard counter?

it doenst matter if you have +500% condition dmg….it wont mean diddly :P like i said the -40% cond dur is MUCH stronger than the +40% they are not equal.

The trait on ele and warriors is -33% immobilize, chill and cripple duration. This doesn’t effect other conditions.

You are right about the -40% condi duration being more powerful than the +40% condi duration but it seems you didn’t explain it clearly.

For starters, +% condi duration isn’t cumulative. It only seems to affect the base number. So lets say you have your base condi is 10 seconds and you have +30% duration from runes, +30% from traits and +40% from food. It wont add the +30% ones to 17 seconds and then apply the +40% to the 17 seconds, but instead the 10 seconds. The -% condi duration stacks on each other however.

Additionally, -% condi duration is applied after your total condi duration is applied. Let’s say your base condi is 10 seconds and you only add the food to give you 14 seconds. -40% would then put the condi at 8.4 seconds.

above i said thakittens 35% stronger than the +% times. 1.5/4 . yeah the cumulative issue is separate but not going to touch that today as most wont follow.

ADD: i think the unplayability of this is due to the fact the evades are too short…..1/4 sec evade on a 1.25 sec skill? :P leave you haning free to be crushed for a sec….. ranged players eat this up….hell even a scepter guard could beat this.

i have a separate set of armor for this set and trying to make it work and….it just doesnt…yet…… ilooooooooooooooove playing it tho…so much fun

really? show me a vid. or a picture. since i havent seen any in spvp yet. and are you also suggesting that upscales dont get hit harder? thats just obviously not true :P and plz dont tell me you consider anyone in spvp/tpvp upscaled. they are all lvl 80 without the “up arrow” hence no upscales. they are upleveled…not upscaled….

even in pvp….its a super low BS number. id like to see any live hotjoin with a high backstab….i mean all the videos floating around internet why havent we seen one? oh bc they dont enter hotjoins with no armor/traits :P thats right lol.

Ray.2640:

Travlane.5948:

Ray.2640:

Travlane.5948:

ok i dont have any pics . but eles have a -33% condition trait….the runes of melandru give condition -25% and lemongrass soup food does another -40 % condition duration. this is a total of -98% condition time. if you give somebody 100 seconds of poison…..it now lasts a mere 2 seconds. so basically anything under 15 seconds is literally less than a blink of the eye. 10 sec duration of bleed is now .2 seconds :P its nothing.

The trait does NOT affect bleed and poison! If anyone runs with the -40% condition duration food then kudos to him, for every person who does there are 5 people who use the +40% duration food.
The runes are a massive trade off, you get 25% less condition duration but lose out on so many awesome rune stats you could have had otherwise.
But God forbid there exists a counter to a p/d thief… Even though they kitten themselves more then you get kitten by their counter.

ray im talking all conditions not just bleed/poioson….even 65% less bleed/poison is crazy! each bleed is usually only 5 secs or so…then down to 2? thats basically cutting condi builds in more than half. also you need other skills like blind…..immobilize….ice…. these are important.. all the ele was doing is runnig around and using his “meat and potatoes” skills when they recharged…in the mean time you are crippled / chilled and cant get in range. only way to catch up is to do the same to him…but oh wait…u cant bc 98%……. the bleeds/poisons at best get him to 80% maybe 75% if ur good. and we all know eles heal like bosses. :P i dont mind a counter to p/d. again maybe its over your head. this is a HARD counter. like NO CHANCE to kill kind of counter….there was supposed to be no kind of these in game. hence why thieves were giving LS to deal with bunkers in PVP….now thieves can go in pvp and have a chance…..invis wont let you cant or push off so its not good to run invis in spvp.

ok….so im betting that you think +40% and -40% cancel each other out? wrong. did u know that the -40% is 35% more effective?

First of all you lost the bet.

Also please tell me why a specific build which is pretty bad against classes without conditions should not give you a hard time when there is no way in the game to kill a p/d thief? I mean it’s totally fair that you can get away with everything but if you cannot kill a single target it’s too much for you to just reset the fight and look for another player to kill? I repeat; you play a build that is impossible to kill for almost every single player in the game and you complain that you have problems killing a spec that specifically counters yours?

ugh…i shouldnt have used p/d as an example. and i do die to classes other than thieve plenty of times. its not a kill all build. but any build thats offensive based should have a chance at some lvl to kill another. it shouldnt be a HARD COUNTER. ok let me switch to my necro. or my engineer. very condition heavy and reliant classes but also not great (perhaps some engi builds) in the 1 v 1 department. how do they deal with this?we all know that cripple/ice is a necros friend…..immobilize is an engineers lbest friend. why should they have a hard counter?

it doenst matter if you have +500% condition dmg….it wont mean diddly :P like i said the -40% cond dur is MUCH stronger than the +40% they are not equal.

Arganthium.5638:

Travlane.5948:

yea …math can prove a photoshopper wrong. like the guy claiming 18k BS’s in spvp/tpvp. its not possible. math can prove it/ him wrong. idk what ur talking about as i showed pics of me doing 28.5k against a fully armored warrior :P videos of 18.5k agianst a fully toughnessed armored engi. :P mine are authentic. what i said is if somebody photoshops all you have to do is math and can figure it wrong or right if its a full picture.

Yes, and, in this case, contrary to what you said, it is right, or at least possible. But you said that it wasn’t.

For example, if you have 3000 extra power, flanking strikes, 110% additional crit damage, Executioner active, Nightmare sigils active, Flanking Strikes active, Ogre Runes, and are hitting a player who is naked (meaning that they have the base 916 toughness), then you hit an average of 27.5k on a critical hit.

yeah i just never considered naked/upscale/frenzy as its kind of stacking the deck and unrealistic. i look at highest bs as what you can do by yourself without others helping you.

ok so the highest backstab seems to be in wvw 20k ish against a player. havent seen any others higher without naked/upscale/frenzy.

Ray.2640:

Travlane.5948:

ok i dont have any pics . but eles have a -33% condition trait….the runes of melandru give condition -25% and lemongrass soup food does another -40 % condition duration. this is a total of -98% condition time. if you give somebody 100 seconds of poison…..it now lasts a mere 2 seconds. so basically anything under 15 seconds is literally less than a blink of the eye. 10 sec duration of bleed is now .2 seconds :P its nothing.

The trait does NOT affect bleed and poison! If anyone runs with the -40% condition duration food then kudos to him, for every person who does there are 5 people who use the +40% duration food.
The runes are a massive trade off, you get 25% less condition duration but lose out on so many awesome rune stats you could have had otherwise.
But God forbid there exists a counter to a p/d thief… Even though they kitten themselves more then you get kitten by their counter.

ray im talking all conditions not just bleed/poioson….even 65% less bleed/poison is crazy! each bleed is usually only 5 secs or so…then down to 2? thats basically cutting condi builds in more than half. also you need other skills like blind…..immobilize….ice…. these are important.. all the ele was doing is runnig around and using his “meat and potatoes” skills when they recharged…in the mean time you are crippled / chilled and cant get in range. only way to catch up is to do the same to him…but oh wait…u cant bc 98%……. the bleeds/poisons at best get him to 80% maybe 75% if ur good. and we all know eles heal like bosses. :P i dont mind a counter to p/d. again maybe its over your head. this is a HARD counter. like NO CHANCE to kill kind of counter….there was supposed to be no kind of these in game. hence why thieves were giving LS to deal with bunkers in PVP….now thieves can go in pvp and have a chance…..invis wont let you cant or push off so its not good to run invis in spvp.

ok….so im betting that you think +40% and -40% cancel each other out? wrong. did u know that the -40% is 35% more effective?

knobby is so 100% full of lies …cmon aikijin ur not dumb. you know how much easier it is to post a full pic? it takes work to cut out the log box an zoom in. you could even do just 2 pics. one of the full screnn then one zoomed in on the bottom left but with a lil but of screen on it to compare. im telling you now its 100% impossible to hit any player for more than 9-10k ish in spvp. there is a cap on dmg.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Travlane.5948:

ok i dont have any pics . but eles have a -33% condition trait….the runes of melandru give condition -25% and lemongrass soup food does another -40 % condition duration. this is a total of -98% condition time. if you give somebody 100 seconds of poison…..it now lasts a mere 2 seconds. so basically anything under 15 seconds is literally less than a blink of the eye. 10 sec duration of bleed is now .2 seconds :P its nothing.

Too bad. Maybe you have to run something else than that ridiculous p/d crap. There is no way in hell the ele can take you down anyway, so it’ll be a draw at best.

tru tru but atleast my build CAN kill 98% of the builds out there…..theres a few like the ele 98% and the d/p condi removal that just is a draw at best. but idk 98% means no dmg….. so atleast with d/p you have to go invis and wait 3 secs to remove one i mean theres potential dmg especially if more than 1 is up. the 98% affects EVERYTHING. and p/d is dare i say…..becoming either FOTM or meta right now. d/p is kinda dying out a lil bit although still popular. i think there is a fair balance between s/d p/d d/p plyaers right now

and what arrmor? aikijin. who are u talking to?

ok i dont have any pics . but eles have a -33% condition trait….the runes of melandru give condition -25% and lemongrass soup food does another -40 % condition duration. this is a total of -98% condition time. if you give somebody 100 seconds of poison…..it now lasts a mere 2 seconds. so basically anything under 15 seconds is literally less than a blink of the eye. 10 sec duration of bleed is now .2 seconds :P its nothing.

why shoulndt a thief be able to? they lose so many things….why not give them atleast the thing that makes the class thief/assassin like…..fighting from shadows and hiding when u want. if u screw up u die :P simple.zergs isnt a real option….spvp/tpvp either. wvw roaming is pretty much all thieves have. why ruin it? you know they will buff the kitten out of thieves if this happens right? they will become real terrors in spvp tpvp and wvw zergs….. lets not even talk about pve as its pretty well known they suck in pve :P

my conditions were on this ele for the blink of an eye. i was running rare vegie pizzas and had basically the max cap condition time applied. everything was on double as long….but his % doesnt apply to my conditions until they are actually on him. so they dont cancel out my ’s making the condis last normal instead of double…… they do 98 less of what is applied. i wish they would counterbalance my +% rather than of the total applied…that way a whole build wouldnt be shut down.

and if u avoid 2 LS you reduce the dmg by 40% too. :P i dont get ur point

Arganthium.5638:

Travlane.5948:

pffft. lame. i dont get the point of that stuff. just seems silly. pure math can prove em wrong.

Nope, it’s possible. Obviously you don’t know the math whatsoever.

It’s just extremely difficult to pull off, costs a lot of money, requires a practically naked friend, tons of buffs via stuff like Flanking Strikes, Night Sigils, etc., extremely high crit damage, Hidden Killer, and a bunch of other stuff that makes this impossible to occur in practicality.

yea …math can prove a photoshopper wrong. like the guy claiming 18k BS’s in spvp/tpvp. its not possible. math can prove it/ him wrong. idk what ur talking about as i showed pics of me doing 28.5k against a fully armored warrior :P videos of 18.5k agianst a fully toughnessed armored engi. :P mine are authentic. what i said is if somebody photoshops all you have to do is math and can figure it wrong or right if its a full picture.

Evilek.5690:

FS+LS have same damage as autoattack chain.

6 sec combat vs heavy golem with 2347 power 62% crit dmg all attacks were critically

auto attack chain:

1890 Slice
1855 Slash
2643 Cripling Strike
1891 Slice
1858 Slash
3171 Critpling Strike
2278 Slice

Total: 15586 DMG

FS+LS
1657 Flaking Strike
3188 Larcenous Strike
1663 Flaking Strike
3192 Larcenous Strike
1774 Flaking Strike
3608 Larcenous Strike
1787 Flaking Strike

Total: 16869 DMG

you forgot to summarize. so allow me. so what this tells us…GRANTED is authentic data…….is that the auto attack and FS/LS combo are roughly the same dmg per time/attack. this means there is on fundamental difference: initiative. auto attack is free. so what did you just get for spending 4 initiative? a 1/2 sec evade on a 1 sec animation and steal 2 boons if they even have any. so again. 4 init = steal 2 boons (maybe) and 1/2 sec evade on a 1 sec animation. seems fair to me.

wow thats alot of crits. how did you get 100% crit rate?

im kidding but i see your point…just a side by side comparison

idk…i ran against an ele like this with my p/d bleeds…had no chance! =idk about d/p tho

pffft. lame. i dont get the point of that stuff. just seems silly. pure math can prove em wrong.

i agree sifu. i wish you would tell that to all the thief haters asking for nerfs. 1 v 1 really doesnt matter. but id hate to see 20 eles in a =zerg running this then causing knockdowns dmg heals and AOE control :P would be kinda rough

ahh ok. so people that use log boxes only are pretty sketchy right?

so you think the 25% 33%40% condition time removed is OP? i guess its pretty strong as you dont need much heals or anti stuns or w.e. u can focus on just using heals and dmg.

shadow return no longer has long range :P it was nerfed. no worries about that anymore. even so you only have to survive 10-14 seconds from the time of use before the nerf

theres ur problem…. p/d is best as a condi build. the auto attack is slow and horrendous for dmg. run full carrion armor and carrion accs with power condi vit jewels on accs and 2 krait runes 2 centaur runes 2 afflicted runes. i like 5 0 30 30 5 or 0 0 30 30 10. in SA rune remove condi per invis…..blind aoe on invis….heal while invis. in acro run 50% dmg and invis on fall dmg…..50% faster while stealthed…..hard to catch SS away on any CC used on u. then if u choose 10 do the caltrops on roll. the one with 5 is good for poison on a 1 v 1 but caltrops is better if zerging. p/d and shortbow backup. dagger sigil is corruption pistol sigil is 10% bleed duration bow can be 50% endurance or hydromancy.your choice really. rare veggie pizza and master tuning crystal are very important for wvw.

theres 2 difkittends of mobility……in battle and out of battle. in battle thieves are first and eles at a close 2nd perhaps. out of battle….warriors own everyone then id say thief/ranger. eles have good in battle mobility.

is there any good way to tell if something is photo shopped?

Psybunny.8906:

Travlane.5948:

Psybunny.8906:

snip

wait wait wait wait…..99% of D/P thieves run 25 30 0 0 15 ???? really wow. tell me what is the “meat and potatoes” of this build? where does the dmg and defense come from? im gonna love this one. :P

It’s a tPvP spec obviously. It’s pretty much the regular backstab spec that is very similar to D/D. Only difference is that it has much more utility than regular D/D. Main combo is (basilisk) 5-2-steal-1, execution speed is around a second. Dazespam to autoattacks against single players is quite effective finisher aswell, shuts down very slippery targets pretty well. It’s not played like the wubwub “permastealth” build where you stack up invis.

Combo damage comes from:

• Steal gives you fury/might/puts a condition on target (+10% damage)/mug non-crit damage
• 5-10% dagger damage (force on mainhand+dagger training, you can use an “Improvisation” or “Back fighting” as alternative if you don’t want dagger training)
• Can use might for Assassins signet trait if you prefer it. Personally I don’t like it, staff guard can buff you well enough in midfights.
• +20% damage from executioner when target is below 50% (heartseeker from the combo will take target below 50% when you don’t do the burst against a full hp target).
• +10% damage when you’re over 90% hp from Scholar runes (you’ll do your burst from full hp usually)
• As a bonus Sigil of Air on offhand that can proc from mainhand skills

Your main active defense is shadowstep for stunbreak, sbow for mobility, spamming from offpoint and Z-axis abuse and d/p 5-2 for stealth to drop target, but again 5-2 chain plays a much lesser role in tPvP than in hotjoin/wubwub for example. If you fail your combo you retreat and try a clean opener a bit later.

Shadow refuge plays both an offensive and defensive role. Offensive uses are solo or group stealthed bursts. Defensive uses are of course clutch target drop when getting trained (needs very clever placement, since the area will get nuked hard), as a distraction (positive side of the last reason), very good clutch stomp prevention (someone is almost finishing stomp on your guard->drop SR and cancel their stomp attempt->2 people rez and get him up in 1.5 secs).

Since this is not wubwub spec, you’re not on ini regen/stealth focus. 15 points in trickery is to accommodate the quite expensive opener combo. It relies more on positioning/mobility as an active defense rather than stealth chaining. It’s because you don’t have the time to play around as a roamer, target must be dead in less than 10 seconds in sidepoint fights.

my point is you are basically relying on auto attack …..if u miss 5 2 steal 1 then ur out of initiative and a sitting duck. might as well use shadow refuge and try again 15 secs later. costing your team -1 man. its a bad idea and hurts the team. you have no initiative control in that build and in spvp/tpvp you are hitting a good BS around 6k maybe more depending on armor n runes etc. 9 initiative if u miss is huge. ur a sitting duck afterward :P

Fuzzion.2504:

Mod pls move this thread to Elementalist forum. Thanks.

its a wvw issue as its only in wvw not in spvp/tpvp. warriors can run it too…although not as well. ill take the word ele out of the title there ya go :P

eles have the heals and aoe fields to deal with much more than warriors. you only have to deal with 1 heal on a warrior. quite easy. especially since their mobility in combat isnt as great as it is in a str8 line sprint. eles have the superb heals to match basically condition free build with the mobility tied with thieves.

u guys see how i showed the WHOLE PICTURE when i posted my proof? DO NOT SHOW COMBAT LOGS! they dont mean anything without a pic to prove it. its easy to recreate and easy to capture.

Erebus.9276:

This thread needs pix!

15-20 Might/Vul… no bloodlust

lots of bloodlust …..or you would have shown the whole pic? umm nothing wrong with bloodlust. its more about highest BS rather than how u got it show it all!

hey guys just wanted to see what everyone else thought of this build that ive seen a few times in wvw. Ele with food/runes/trait can get negative 98% condition time. they have insane heals great mobility and boons/toughness galore. dmg is decent too…not great but enough to kill somebody. What are your thoughts about this? i 100% shuts down maaaaaaaaaaaany many builds. unless ur running spike…and i mean like berserker spike you wont have enough dmg to kill this type…..not just that but you cant stop them. literally…how can you stop them? immob for .05 secs? :P pfft its not even up enough to see it on their condi bar. anyway is it just a troll build? roam build? or OP? what do you all think?

ps warriors can run a similar version although not as well…so can other classes but it seems ele runs it best bc of their mobility/heals and ability to spam skills without ever stopping (elements)

FinalPatriot.8034:

After getting killed by thieves 1v1, I finally leveled mine up to 80 so I can fully understand the class. Though the random roaming fight can be really fun, I’m finding that the typical zerg is just boring as hell. Currently, I’m running a D/D + SB build similar to Yishis and feel like I’m stuck using this SB all the time with no real benefit to the group. The animation also looks like I’m shooting a spaghetti noodle at the target….

I leveled up as a full condition P/D and it was lots of fun for PvE and zergs but I’ve heard that in roaming fights, they get destroyed pretty quickly. Is there some sort of balance between them or something more exciting I can be doing in zergs that is also effective in 1v1 situations?

if ur having problems with p/d than its just a L2P issue…and sorry i reaaaaaaly hate it when people use that phrase. p/d is actually better for zergs and amazing at 1 v 1 or 1 v x also….however its bad against d/p condi removal builds and some eles with full condi removal. i could give u a few tips if u need.

this is exactly what a thief is…..stay back and wait to pick your fight….. why is this fair? bc he cant wade into a battle and do much :P he has to pick a fight on the outskirts. stealth builds suck in spvp/tpvp…..even in pve thieves are teh worst/tied for worst. so wvw is the one highlight a thief has bc of open area and roaming choice. let em have it. necros guardians rangers love spvp/tpvp. let em have it.

Lucentfir.7430:

Travlane.5948:

guardian push / pull skills ruin our day…ill tell you that…so does those kitten aegis/retal builds….a great guardian will win 90% of the time against a great thief. that is the truth. this is why they gave LS to thieves. does it ruin your day? yup. is it meta for thieves to run? only in spvp.

let me poke something out there that i think most players dont notice. anyone ever see VITALITY – TOUGHNESS – HEALING armor? no? thats bc its not in the game? now heres the part were all the players should say to themselves? i wonder why they dont have that type?! well lets figure it out could it be bc anet is lazy and/or forgetfull/idiots? they are multi millionaires so i doubt it :P ok ok ok hrm…. could it be purposeful/intentional? yes! eureka! ok now the next step is to figure out why! ok ok ok….what would vit/tough/heal do in the game…..it would make a full 100% defensive/heal TANK that cant kill anyone….. aka a Tr0LL. they dont want a tank build that is meant to be unkillable and not be able to kill. in the same sense why they dont let thieves have good defense. just isnt good for the game. they chose to stay away from the option of tank/tr0ll …..its why they took out shadow form and unlimited range on shadow returns. some dont know/remember gw1 assassin hot join trolls….and the neverending matches we made :P lol. anyway yeah they dont want bunkers….in the sense of 1 v 1 u cant kill me. they want you to be able to be killed. is it annoyign that anyone can spam it? yes. its not OP imo bc its a what like a .5 sec evade on a 1.25 sec move? so that still leaves time to roll and time to give free dmg while they are stuck. the evade is at the first .5 so you ahve to catchthem on the back end i believe. but i do understand the pain in seeing FOTM n00bs come in and spam stuff just to be annoying. its 5 initiative which is fair. id rather see it cost 6 and up the dmg of tactical strike. as of right now its the only reason i dont use TS

/shrug even if there was Vit/tough/healing stat combos it’d be a stupid stat combo ,something I wouldn’t ever use. Also push and pull(Shield 5,GS 5, Hammer 3) ruins thieves in refuge. Doesn’t stop them from using “HIS” or the usual D/P set I see every other theif and their mother for perma stealth and perma blind afterwards. Also Great thief vs a Great Guardian? No it would be a stalemate, because said thief would just keep stealthing and keep playing smart. Also perma stealth can be a equivalent of trolling like bunkering. /shrug like I said I just find thieves annoying with the new LS, and since FoTM i see the same D/P set every other thief runs, also including S/D from time to time, becoming more frequent.

if both players are playing to kill the guardian will win. yes the thief can troll invis away and reset….. but they also cant do dmg while trolling…..but the guardian can while they are trolling….thats the difference. bunker trolls deal dmg……stealth trolls deal no dmg.

the probabilty of getting even just 0 out of 20 is .70 to the 20th power. :P yessum thats 0.000797 or 8/1000th’s of 1% chance at happening. but larger sample size from a larger sample population is always preferred

guardian push / pull skills ruin our day…ill tell you that…so does those kitten aegis/retal builds….a great guardian will win 90% of the time against a great thief. that is the truth. this is why they gave LS to thieves. does it ruin your day? yup. is it meta for thieves to run? only in spvp.

let me poke something out there that i think most players dont notice. anyone ever see VITALITY – TOUGHNESS – HEALING armor? no? thats bc its not in the game? now heres the part were all the players should say to themselves? i wonder why they dont have that type?! well lets figure it out could it be bc anet is lazy and/or forgetfull/idiots? they are multi millionaires so i doubt it :P ok ok ok hrm…. could it be purposeful/intentional? yes! eureka! ok now the next step is to figure out why! ok ok ok….what would vit/tough/heal do in the game…..it would make a full 100% defensive/heal TANK that cant kill anyone….. aka a Tr0LL. they dont want a tank build that is meant to be unkillable and not be able to kill. in the same sense why they dont let thieves have good defense. just isnt good for the game. they chose to stay away from the option of tank/tr0ll …..its why they took out shadow form and unlimited range on shadow returns. some dont know/remember gw1 assassin hot join trolls….and the neverending matches we made :P lol. anyway yeah they dont want bunkers….in the sense of 1 v 1 u cant kill me. they want you to be able to be killed. is it annoyign that anyone can spam it? yes. its not OP imo bc its a what like a .5 sec evade on a 1.25 sec move? so that still leaves time to roll and time to give free dmg while they are stuck. the evade is at the first .5 so you ahve to catchthem on the back end i believe. but i do understand the pain in seeing FOTM n00bs come in and spam stuff just to be annoying. its 5 initiative which is fair. id rather see it cost 6 and up the dmg of tactical strike. as of right now its the only reason i dont use TS