Guild Wars 2

oh boy….so gw1 is broken? really? intersting that it was more balanced than gw2. ok heres how blind works ….90% chance to miss on a strike. all non dmg skills work. lasts only a couple seconds. if u modify smokescreen etc even if a thief were to blind you for 7 seconds he would use everythign he has and would then have to go all out. now most classes have ports or dodges +2 evades…blocks…invis….clones….. so if u canuse any of those for even a flurry of blinds….ur good to go. u can run a blind build AND a burst build. one or the other would be severely affected. there are ways to work it out. you really should go play gw1. just to know that it wont be a broken condition. atleast in the sense of “utterly shutting you down”:,,,,, plus your whole screen comes dark when u have blind on. i wish that were true when i had confusion on or target would glow blue with retaliation. ur trying to react to a character during a fight. not look at his boons every 2 seconds. blind is the easies thing to avoid. plus every character has remove condis. i think your scare of thieves actually being able to wvw. and if u think 1 v1 is called wvw’ing then ur just out of the picture.

yeah. what humorless said. if u have only played your class plz dont talk about others. wasting paper and killing trees and all :P

enige and mesmer have invernerable traits…just like guardiand and warrior…im just saying i think the answer is a lil blind boost. u dont have to rerol everythign. u ahve to change the timing of SOME things . and perhaps take out blind from smoke screen/field. no huge change has to happen. really

i like your idea about daggerstorm. i really do. but i still think that the blind boost is better. bc even with the boon hating coming that would let us get into the nitty gritty of a battle even for a moment and get out. which is what we need. we dont need to be in there like a warrior/guardian..BUT ….what about jump in with a couple blinds and drop 2 death blossoms them shadowstep out….you know….kinda like GW2s promotional video. that would be awesome and changing blind to gw1 style woudl let thieves fight. they could also give us 1200 range on blow…900 is a joke as a bow is supposed to outrange everything except other bows/rifle/pistols….. even ele ice skills can reach bow range….its a joke too

agreed. i dont play spvp or tpvp anymore. just cant do it on my thief. its sad. caltrops down to 10 secs….which is stupid too bc we dont have ANY DEFENSE so how do we bunker….caltrops….up…thiefs have somethign they can do…lets take it away. if u guys check another forum about A NEW DEFENSE i wrote about giving us options to go heads up with more than 1 people w/o being OP. check it out. just reverts blind back to gw1 style

ZenonSeth.5739:

Rayya.2591:

bad ideea.
blind is spammable
[snip]

What about reverting to GW1 style blindness? Stacks duration, gives 90% chance to miss, and only half duration on bosses.
Opinions?

most people are hating my idea bc they dont know or dont remember gw1. it worked very well there. 90% chance to miss . even if a thief wanted to spam it he would be out of all utilites…out of all intiave…..that would kill his burst and his sustainability
….silly people. i agree. they need to revert back to gw1 blind . it would fix the thief problem in fighting bc now we have to run from a 3 v 3 and not even consider at 50 v 50

Rayya.2591:

bad ideea.
blind is spammable
shadow refuge +cluster bombs -area blind
cloacked in shadow -stealth = area blind
signet of shadows -active
blinding powder
black powder

all but SoS are stay still near me while i cast skills to blind you type of skills. and obviously if they revert to gw1 style which is better for theives defense which is non existent pretty much. they would have to tweek a few things. if u are a thief im sure you would like this idea. instead of being a pessimist…(bc it DID work in gw1 and just fine too) make an idea to tweek the skills that might make it OP…… ty

daros.3407:

Travlane.5948:

thives get a mediocre shot at bleeds and only way to do that is p/d…..sorry d/d doesnt count…..6 intiative is too high for 2 bleed stacks ;P

First of all it is 5 ini. for 3 bleed stacks and with proper build you can use it 3 times in row. So 9 stacks in 3? sec. Then you refill ini. and you can use it again 3 times..:-D Only this will give at least 15 stacks. Plus every condition build shoud use caltrops at least on roll so it is another 3 stacks of bleed for every roll folowed by unending cripple.
And thief can easily boon himself..For example every roll can give you swiftness and might. And of cource thief have stealth and so on…And now i decsribet only one condition playstyle. Thiefs already have lot of different possibilities how to be really good. They dont have only bleed as good condition. They have also poison and tons of cripple as i said and this weak blindness as you said. He can also have lot of imobile and some chilled depends on skills he use ofcource. 3sec blind would be nice but i am not sure if he realy needs it. There are already many ways how to play it without even need of blind.
It is just my opinion no one have to agree ofcource :-)

ok…usually only 2stacks are causedd not 3. and everyclass has immob and a splash of stun/poison. but bleed builds usually dont spec for poison/stun.immobilize atleast not the best ones. bleed builds almsot always run p/d and have to use skill 1 and a backup set is d/d OR sb. but if u use poison on sb say goodbye to your defense. my point is ….the SPECIAL conditions like confusion/retaliation work well …..they should either remove after 1 skill 1 hit or let blind be boosted. and im also not sure what automatically refills 12 intiative. u can get RFI for 6…then stack 9 total….but then again if they clear your ONLY condition stack in those first several seconds….ALL your intiative is gone…..and 1-2 of your utilizes are gon and hes prolly around 80% hp while u are running with your tail between your legs. blind should act 2-3 secs at a time bc u really cant stack them more than 2 usually….blinding power after an invis gives 2…..maybe the signet for 3 . smoke screen COULD be an argument but idk its still not overpowering if they lower times. right now thieves still can decently burst. but they cannot play an attack build in guild v guild or zerg v zerg. it gets boring running around the map just looking to grab a loaner or a stray. we wanna get in there and mix it up. there is always venom share but thats a share build and is based on helping others and not getting as much done yourself. blind would help out or lack of defense THAT THEY SAY THEY ARE GOING TO GIVE A BOOST. so the point of my comments starting this thread was to give them an idea back they had from GW1.

obviously maybe a few small tweaks would be made to certain things but i could totally see this as teh asnwer to thieves defensive/survibility problems in pvp …even in PVE! i mean heck…it worked great in GW1……not like it cant here. thieves have a great class specialy buff as do all….. but they dont have a strong condition as all others do: warriors (5 sec immob and KDs) Guards (burn and RETAL) Mesmer (confusion/retal) engineers (everything) Necros (fear/ice) etc etc etc but thives get a mediocre shot at bleeds and only way to do that is p/d…..sorry d/d doesnt count…..6 intiative is too high for 2 bleed stacks ;P

issues…wrong not how it works but in essence they do work more together theres a difference to 5% dmg of skill and dmg from weapon so they are different but the 15% makes the 5% get more….

its not buggy ….just relys on 2 things :P and they never stay still for them so seems buggy but it does x according to position y…but y moves to position z and then x is trying to accomodate for that. its a most amazing skill AFTER you infiltrators strike then flank. u have to do it like that bc if u notice the skill is 2x faster when ur super close

doesnt matter….blinds are weak…..they leave after 1 hit. point is retal/confusion dont but add dmg….blind doesnt even dmg….it really should last around 3 secs and stay on til it finishes.

@arekai IF THEY do that ur going to see bursts for 12 seconds instead of 2…..in a burst a thief uses everythign then has to wait forever to even do anyhthing other than auto attack/run/dodge/evade etc. know hwat ur talking about before you talk about classes u havent played. playing thief is on of the 2 hardest(other bieng ele)

Confusion = mesmers most powerful condition
Retaliation= guardians most powerful condition
blind = thiefs most powerful……1 hit evade if ur close enough to get hit by it….condition

HERES AN IDEA>>>>> you keep saying (devs) you want to make us sliperrier etc this one idea MAY fix your problem and hoping serious thought is put into it. If a guardian is attacked with retaliation on a thief can die in moments….and retal lasts quite a while esepcially with boon duration buffs/armor etc. mesmers confusion just owns anyone especially if they try to heal and use defensive skills / evades…quick death. Now thieves get blinds as part of their “specialty” but it only lasts 1 hit each time……go back to gw1 style and you could fix our whole defensive problems….PLEASE MAKE BLIND last 3 seconds or sometimes (we could boost it with skills/armor to 5) but make it last thru all the hits until the duration ends. this gives us a real chance at defense especially against more than 1 person. i think 3 is the perfect number bc its not too short but also not too incapacitationg for an opponent. they could roll backwards waiting for it to end or remove it. but also alllows a thief to stay offenseive or near more than once person. its annoying having to rely on stealth defenses bc its all we have. if u gives us this option we coudl go hard at somebody and integrate blind as our main defense rather than stealth. it would create more options for thieves to play and when u see one coming u will think,,,,hmmm….d/d backstab……d/p backstab…..condi bleed invis build…or is he a blind aggro thief? all the builds HAVE TO use stealth right now. blind would give us a way out if made to work like it used to in GW1! thank you -orro the sly-

rafahil did u know that pistol whip is less dmg per (time) than auto attack? :P u tell me if it made adifference. 15% on 6k dmg is almost an extra 1k dmg. it adds up

skill 3 and 1 have decent dmg not great but also not high initiative cost when using p/d. it can be made to work although id have a 2nd set of wewapons as a finishing set with a hydromancy rune on it

still….if thats the case…ur still within any range other than melee
and really isnt worthy of a grandmaster trait. idk just doesnt feel right. its once per 60 secs. you should stay on your feet…as for the rolls…..what the guy said above may be theoretically right but its not. you roll and halfway thru the roll the condis are removed…..and then you finish 2nd half of roll…so they arent removed BEFORE or AFTER the actual roll.

withdraw is better than HiS…but like a 51 to 49 differential

thieves dont have the defense or longevity to be a hybrid. sword builds can….kind of. but the 2 builds u mentioned are too hard to mix. not enough trait points to spread around. d/p is annoying jumping across a cloud puddle for invis 3 × .....hence very easy to get caught in AOE by GOOD PLAYERS. i like p/d as even zergs wont kill me
but then again thats my build not the average p/d

not sure if the mechanics were programmed right or if its a bug or what.

WITHDRAW/ROLL 4 INTIATIVE- when you are immobilized and use these….you roll a bit then removes the conditions then finishes rolling but you only roll half way if you are immobilized/ice/ etc …….shouldnt it remove condis so it can roll the full distance?

HARD 2 CATCH – i run this in my bleed build bc people zerg ALOT and CC kills a thief. i love it but everytime it procs i only get SS about 900 instead of 1200 ANNNNNND i also get a 1.5sec knockdown….wtf….hard 2 catch is the name but i end up face flat on the ground for 1.5 secs….should name it fumble step or something……im pretty sure we arent supposed to be KD especially since it looks glitchy.

what do you other pro thieves think?

if u can see a thief in stealth at any level or sort they need to drastically reroll the way a thief works mainly in defense. u can kiss backstab goodbye if that happens. they arlready took a 50% defense/offensive hit from the extra second of revealed. thieves are pretty close to balance . just need a few very minor tweeks

def on the factor. but not sure which movie refers to him as a ranger>?

yes i know. and it stems from players inability to….well just think…..they already dumbed the game down about 80% to increase target consumers. now they complain about invis and revealed not being long enough.

and tbh looking at it from a mathematical PoV…..decreasing dmg 33% or so and making NO revealed debuff actually increases outgoing dmg during a fight maybe double or tripple. even if u took 75% of outgoing dmg away a good thief will still win without a revealed buff.

ShoeMoney.5249:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

ShoeMoney.5249:

If someone asked you to define a thief what would you say in 144 chars or less? Now I know its a fantasy game and not meant to be real life but play a long.

My definition – A Criminal, someone who is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve their goal. No morals or ethics. A bad guy. A outlaw.

My thief is a hero not a criminal. He is born into nobility and recognized as honorable. He’s a good guy and part of society.

But that doesn’t mean he can’t dress in black at night and hunts bad guys.

So you are like Robin Hood… only not a ranger

srry to be the one to pop your bubble….ROBIN HOOD is a thief. not a ranger. and yes thieves use bows bc i know ur gonna mention that :P

Nex.2450:

Daecollo.9578:

If backstab and mug and cloak and dagger does less damage, what is the problem with that? You would have to guess where your enemy is.

People complain already that thieves stealth to often – and in comparison to other MMO’s we have access to stealth way more often as it is already. It isn’t fun fighting something you cant see. Even with the reduced damage, the ability to backstab at a much higher rate would end up as higher DPS. Also this play style would be hellishly boring, following your opponent hitting 5, 1, 5, 1 constantly.

u know how long stealth is….that said u know when to evade…. right before the 3-4 seconds is up.

u know once u get a thief immobilized/chilled/stunned they are dead……do it

u know if you retal/burn/blind a thief is a dead one…..do it…..

you know if u evade/block a thieves first OR second strike they lost out on 75% of their burst dmg…..DO IT.

L2P and stop complaining.

Deified.7520:

Travlane.5948:

Dasorine.1964:

Deified.7520:

If each class gets one skill that if they hit a thief or someone invisible with, it pulls them out, there would probably be 50% less complaints about thiefs. Now of course they really need to buff the other theif builds before doing this.

You’d also have a lot less thieves, because why would anyone play cannon fodder profession that has next to no usable defense in any situation?

exactly…u have to remember…invis….is a thieves ONE AND ONLY DEFENSE> :P also…. to the person above saying that 90% play D/D backstab b/c its the best build….obv u have never seen d/p p/d s/d and s/p builds bc they are ALL better than d/d backstab. d/d backstab is the highest burst but also worst dmg bc if u miss…u ahve to run…if u suceed…u ahve to run….if u get blocked….u have to run….and wait for 60 secs on skills to recharge to have any shot at trying again….no offense but if u dont have many thousands of kills on a thief…u really cant say what the best build is. best 1 v 1 builds are d/p and s/d hands down. how much dmg u think a s/d build can do with 2 consecutive stuns for 1.5 seconds and 3 seconds? u just gonna chill for 4.5 seconds and take a beating :P not going to tell u what u need to do that bc its prolly garbage since 90% of thieves dont run it right? Cmon bro think outside the box. d/d is the easiest to play not the best

I’m not gonna lie, you’re right with the stealth being only defense. Hence why I said they need to buff the other things.

Things I’d like thieves defense revolve around

Evading/dodging
Blinds
Movement/mobility (like those skills that flip around to a person side)

I hate the classic class that does lots of damage and goes stealth, so uncreative.

if u use x/p you hav SO MANY BLINDS
if u use s/x you have SO MANY EVADES
if you usex/d you have SO MANY INVIS

the real problem for thieves revolves in the fact we have medium armor that gets hit like its light armor and ALSO have no dmg reduction or defensive skills. its all or nothing….evade or die. invis or die. we need maybe a 20% boost on defense or a 15 % decrease in total incoming dmg to hav a chance at being a viable class to pick in zerg builds.

or just decrease SOME skills. kittening eles can spam skills LITERALLY for hours without stopping. tell me how tahts not OP and the fact they have the best healing best defense / dmg reduction best mobility and best all condi removal/cc removal in game….soudns balance right? all these nubs complain bc thieves can burst and kill nubs in 2 secs once every 60 secs……which does NOTHING to the wvw scores or the other teams/zergs…..has no real bearing….its actually BETTER. ill tell you what i run with the best guild in tier 3……that said i would run our guild against a guild of the same amount all thieves burst build and we would own them all in less than 8 seconds. i guarantee that…..plz keep this in perspect when u hate on thieves.

we need a starting 15 intitiative amount.

good players dont die to d/d backstab…..its true…..if u dont think so u are obviously a less than good player…..and theres nothing wrong with that….just stay with a zerg and keep zerging on

shadows protectors regeneration limit? whats that mean? ive never heard of a limit

ROLL FOR INTIATIVE/WITHDRAW…..when u have immobilize or w.e. that holds u down…….u roll but it doesnt get rid of it until half the roll is gone and you only go back half the distance…could u plz make these so they remove the condis FIRST then roll instantaneously?ty in advance…also like above…plz helps us bcome more sliperier…..its why 90% play d/d backstab. HELP

ATTENTION DEVS>>>>>>. plz tell me this is a messed up trait….HARD TO CATCH cmon…..u give us a free anti CC for grandmaster Trait……..but it doesnt work….we only get kitten about 900 distance and a KD for 1.5 secs….how does that help. not really grandmaster trait worth. its why nobody runs 30 in acro. i run it sometims in bleed build bc it dissorients small zergs but still that knockdown is brutal….is it really supposed to knock us down? the words HARD TO CATCH kinda condtradict the fact we lay on the ground so they can catch us. :P can u pleasssssssssssssse fix this?i really wanna run some different builds….u say you wanna make us sliperier…. :P plz do!

JonPeters.5630:

Perfect! Thanks. We will sticky this and star hitting these. Reminder bugs take time to fix and about a week to test. I’ll look into us recently breaking heart seeker functionality again.

Jon

if it helps its bc the way its programed is 900 range on a surface area. rather than 900 range from point A to point B. it counts the distance between as if u were running rather than porting point to point. although if somebody is chasing you its kinda like an advtange if its point a to point b….although i believe it should be like that….it needs the advantage bc without it the skill is useless…..infiltrators arrow shoudl be 1200 distance especially since its extremely heavy on intiative…ore atleast add some invis…id settle for invis. the skill sux right now. when using SB…. u have 2 skills that get used…1 and 2…sometimes 4. cant afford to use 3….better off using a utility and saving the intiative.

99.9% of Sword thievs arent quick thinkers and just cant handle the build. but the ones that can just own. ask me in game ill be happy to duel u if we are in wvw. (spvp isnt a linear debuff with the dmg reduction so thieves get killed there unless condi builds) anyway yeah pistol whip sucks! it has less damage per second than auto attack and thats a fact. 90% of the time you dont get past the 2nd swing before they dodge

2 secs from tactical strike 1 sec from steal….with proper boosts its a total of 4.5

what 4 sec daze are u talkin about?

Dasorine.1964:

Deified.7520:

If each class gets one skill that if they hit a thief or someone invisible with, it pulls them out, there would probably be 50% less complaints about thiefs. Now of course they really need to buff the other theif builds before doing this.

You’d also have a lot less thieves, because why would anyone play cannon fodder profession that has next to no usable defense in any situation?

exactly…u have to remember…invis….is a thieves ONE AND ONLY DEFENSE> :P also…. to the person above saying that 90% play D/D backstab b/c its the best build….obv u have never seen d/p p/d s/d and s/p builds bc they are ALL better than d/d backstab. d/d backstab is the highest burst but also worst dmg bc if u miss…u ahve to run…if u suceed…u ahve to run….if u get blocked….u have to run….and wait for 60 secs on skills to recharge to have any shot at trying again….no offense but if u dont have many thousands of kills on a thief…u really cant say what the best build is. best 1 v 1 builds are d/p and s/d hands down. how much dmg u think a s/d build can do with 2 consecutive stuns for 1.5 seconds and 3 seconds? u just gonna chill for 4.5 seconds and take a beating :P not going to tell u what u need to do that bc its prolly garbage since 90% of thieves dont run it right? Cmon bro think outside the box. d/d is the easiest to play not the best

sorry to add 2 comments in a row….but…

ALSO…. ikitteneep using CnD to re invis after the previous invis ends…u can wipe all condis and heal up with (heal while invis) trait….ive personally had a few challengesi put on myself to revive a friend when theres 5-7 people attacking me….if used right HiS is not crippled at all…..it took about 60 seconds for me to keep reviving him til he got up while these 6 or so people attacked me in wvw….buti got up bc i didnt leave invis early and kept reentering. revealed crippled our defense and damage….not our skills… remember that. we recieve more dmg and have to blow our dodges early bc of those 4 secs…..we also lose alot of dmg bc of defending during that time and not attacking……

HiS is great for PVP/WVW bc it gives you 4 seconds extra to hide/heal/reset in most builds. in SOME builds withdraw is better….it has a higher direct heal per 30 seconds and kills some CC skills/condis on yourself. in a bleed build with 22k hp i like withdraw bc i use the trait SHADOWS EMBRACE which allows me to remove 2 condis OR MORE if i use Shadow Refuge or dual invis skills EVERYTIMEi go invis!! …so….Cloack and dagger….then withdraw …removes pretty much every condition on you….most people can only stack 5 conditions at a time. make sure youlook how they stack as they remove conditions as the last one stacked first. so u might waanna withdraw then CND. all depends. i personally like withdraw…then CnD bc invis removing traits is unbiased and takes whatever u didnt get off from withdraw. so if ur using any sort of shadow arts aka invis build …withdraw is technically better. if ur NOT using that shadows embrace skill… Hide in shadows (HiS) is better…i very very very rarely use signet bc of the 40secs and mediocre direct heal. its good with dagger storm and caltrops and trick shot and suprise shot….but only in a zerg v zerg situation in my opinion. so again Withdraw is best…..then HiS……then signet……thats if ur looking at the skills when used with most builds….if u look at the skills just by themselves….HIS gives the best heal….but then again if ur chilled/crippled ur going to recieve alot more incoming dmg …..so u can theoretically add that into your heal on withdraw. there are very few thieves that use withdraw….but the ones that do are generally more talented thieves and much harder to kill. lemme know if u have any questions/comments. -orro the sly-

Deified.7520:

Rememebr guys, this thread is for thieves. If you really want to talk about 100nades and SD builds for engineers, go to that forum. You’ll get more than an acceptable amount of answers to your questions.

The problem i have with thieves is that the whole way to counter a thief is dependent almost entirely on player skill. No other class in the game (besides mesmers) relies entirely on player skill to counter.

Stealth – Countering = predicting. No way to bring people out of stealth
The “one shot” combo – Countering = predicting, knowing when to dodge, etc

In any game where there is competitive PvP, if there are some classes/heroes that rely entirely on the enemy players ability to play the game well to counter and then theres other classes that have hard counters (counters that are in game), then i creates an imbalance because not all players good.

you must be new to the game i take it…..any push back skill…any interup skill all push people out of shadow refuge…CND is easy to dodge….u know a thief is in stealth for 3-4 secs….try running at the thief then dodging backwards at the 2.5 second mark. there are plent of ways you can mix it up…if a thief misses CND thats half of his intiative gone…then he only has auto attack….also use block or some kind of anti cc for his openier….if u can survive the first 5 seconds…. u have the next 50 or so seconds to really do your dmg before all his traits cool down. thief is very easy to avoid.. its been over 5 or 6 weeks since ive been backstabbed in WVW. i get stoned sometimes but then again i play a thief. if im on my guardian…it never works lol i embarass him …i dont kill him but he runs away :P….also use retaliation….use fire….and blind is a beotch for thieves bc they waste oh so valuable intiative. Cant get mad at you for not knowing but now u know and u can stop complaining. if u wanna complain go yell at mesmers phantasm build which has just as much dmg ast hieves and all they do is make phantams and run in a cirlce/dodge while the AI does all the work….so much talent there :P nubs lol

oh..P.S. —-— people much more rather have a game where skill is more prevalent than character choice. why dont you just go to a turn bases ADnD game if u hate the fact that new games require skill to play/defend. cmon thats just a silly thing to say. ive seen rangers kick thieves’ arses ….that said….should they buff the hell out of thieves and make the average player good and make the good player godly? get real lol

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

so long as you keep your wits about you, you should be okay.

The same thing can be said about AoE skills. All players have to do is realise they are standing in a big red circle and should expect it to damage them.

But instead Anet limited AoE skills to only affect 5 players, even if 80 players stand in it!

So on one side devs are saying people should learn how to keep an eye out for skills, whilst at the same time giving in and putting a limit on AoE skills so zergs can be lazy.

Makes absolutely no sense at all!

i agree…i think they should dmg more than 5….and perhaps even all…that said….2 100 nades engineers could kill 100 people in less than 2 seconds if they were stacked? see the problem man? i think should be around 8 people each. zerg v zerg u have dozens of AOE on the ground at the same time…thats alot of dmg. if u wanna do what ur saying….cool…but we need a true healer if thats the case

Travlane.5948:

randomfightfan.4091:

Rengaru.4730:

Thief in general is not be OP but Mug is, at least for a 10-point-trait.
Kit refinement was OP for a 10-point-trait and got nerfed (as in: “Pretty much erased from the game”)

So we have two OP 10-point-traits, one has been nerfed, the other one (even though it has been announced by the devs to be OP and to get a nerf) remains in the game, why?

Let me just say this. Mug deals 4k damage on a 45s cooldown. It has no added effects of anything anywhere… just damage… on a 45s cooldown.

Now I do understand that mug with cnd into a quick backstab is a really good chunk of burst and you want it nerfed. So how would someone like you react to lets say mug now deals 20% less damage but steal is now on a 30s base cool down? The burst is a lot less but now we have the profession mechanic on a decent cd. It might even get used more than once in a good fight! We’d be losing out on that burst but be getting a lot more utility back.

Sounds like a good trade off for both sides to me. Thief still has spike but not as insta-gib spike while getting the possibility to have more utility as so many other things rely on using the steal skill. The other side gets some breathing room but now even if they countered the initial burst, they have to take advantage of the situation. They can’t just bide their time b/c they’ve already won.

from a thief……..i have to say i could live with that….they set us up so burst is = target one…kill him….go hide for 45 seconds. . . . .steal…assasins sig….shadow refuge….haste…..basiliks venom….blind powder….EVERY VENOM…. are all 45 secs and most are 60 seconds…ontop of that ONE CND is HALF>..yes 50% of our entire intiative…and id like to say about 40% of CnDs miss against good players…..so we get 2 skills and 2 big attacks then we have to hope and pray not to die in the next 6 seconds before we get another attack ready….

hmmmm you make him a zerk build to prove a point? can you tell me why a zerk build you made has over 21k hp? heh…nice try bud

randomfightfan.4091:

Rengaru.4730:

Thief in general is not be OP but Mug is, at least for a 10-point-trait.
Kit refinement was OP for a 10-point-trait and got nerfed (as in: “Pretty much erased from the game”)

So we have two OP 10-point-traits, one has been nerfed, the other one (even though it has been announced by the devs to be OP and to get a nerf) remains in the game, why?

Let me just say this. Mug deals 4k damage on a 45s cooldown. It has no added effects of anything anywhere… just damage… on a 45s cooldown.

Now I do understand that mug with cnd into a quick backstab is a really good chunk of burst and you want it nerfed. So how would someone like you react to lets say mug now deals 20% less damage but steal is now on a 30s base cool down? The burst is a lot less but now we have the profession mechanic on a decent cd. It might even get used more than once in a good fight! We’d be losing out on that burst but be getting a lot more utility back.

Sounds like a good trade off for both sides to me. Thief still has spike but not as insta-gib spike while getting the possibility to have more utility as so many other things rely on using the steal skill. The other side gets some breathing room but now even if they countered the initial burst, they have to take advantage of the situation. They can’t just bide their time b/c they’ve already won.

from a thief……..i have to say i could live with that….they set us up so burst is = target one…kill him….go hide for 45 seconds. . . . .steal…assasins sig….shadow refuge….haste…..basiliks venom….blind powder….EVERY VENOM…. are all 45 secs and most are 60 seconds…ontop of that ONE CND is HALF>..yes 50% of our entire intiative…and id like to say about 40% of CnDs miss against good players…..so we get 2 skills and 2 big attacks then we have to hope and pray not to die in the next 6 seconds before we get another attack ready….

This is FINALLY one of the more intelligent and KEY hints to defeating ANY tough build in the game. PLAY THE BUILD YOU HATE! That is right! Then you learn to defend how they play because you know what is coming and when it is coming at you!
He also said something quite ridiculous. He did not own people in SPVP like god mode especially with a class he has never played. Thief is one of the 2 toughest classes to play, or play well. you cant spam 2 and kill anyone…if u mean spam 2 when somebody is at 35% or so ..then yes 2-3 will do the job even with all that i get my attack at about 3850 and i still can kill anyone with 2 spam strait out.
Ok. To add some more insight on the difference between SPVP and WVW. there is a major dmg deduction or a damage cap in SPVP. Backstabs on glass cannon in wvw can go up to 10k ish (yes more if you use Assassins Sig and Food/buffs) and about 5kish in spvp so we have about a 50% dmg deduction. This debuff in damage or in “capabilities” of classes is NOT linear across the board. allow me to explain. When u deduce dmg from all classes and NOT their HP / Defense the class that relies on it (not the highest dmg class) the most its hurt MORE than other classes. Ok so its like taking half the defense away from a guardian and the same half away from a thief….the guardian will be hurt more bc thats what keeps him alive agianst a thief….a thief loses half its defense…its still very very squishy…but it can also still kill very fast. in this case the guardian would lose out the most. if you dont believe me go play the best dueling thiekittennow in wvw…then go in spvp…u will see an amaaazing difference. Why you ask? i mean theres the same dmg deduction across the board right? hrmmm….
Thieves are not broken my friends. i want to go back to 3 secs on revealed…that extra second killed about 1/3rd of p/d bleed builds’ defense adn about 50% of its attack output. i can explain this if you dont believe me but it compounds bc of the time avialable to target. if u want the truth thieves usually go invis for 3 secs sometimes 4……..they are only invis for half of that if u attack just before they go in because the attack follows them as long as you click it before they invis.
the dev also brought up the perfect point. bring CC and AOE and u will have no problems against most thieves. if u dont have anti stun and CC you dont belong in wvw or shouldnt have a right to complain. also learn the classes you hate it will help tremendously.
if u wanna know 2 REALLY broken classes : ELES/MESMERs………. no way right? yeah right…obviously devs favs are eles/mesmers as they ahve recivied the least debuffs other than RTL 5 sec longer nerf… ok mesmers…..zerk phantasm build does as much dmg as any thing burst build …all they do is make phantasms and boost them up and run in a circle and dodge….they dont have to really do anything and the phantasms make soooo much dmg…and they follow you even after you come out of invis…they wont target summons…minions or pets….just you. too much AI and too much dmg. i jsut dont like the fact they have so much dmg and dont even have to target the enemy really other than to engage their phantasms. then not too mention the base effects of confusion should have been more on the gw1 setup. SECONDLY elementalists….plz name me one other class that can be first in several different categories……they are first in mobility….condition removal …..healing….dmg reduction …..and also first in spammability of skills as they can literally cast spells FOREVER wikthout stopping….so not only are they first in that they are the only class that can do that. they have decent dmg too! not low like guardians…(which are low bc of their defense/heals…funny….ele has the same but not low dmg) also an easy fix….. you only have to add a few seconds of extra cooldown time between each element OR….just make realistic casting times on most of their skills…they are all pretty much instant or 1/4……spam spam spam spam spam they prolly average 2.25 skills per second…which is insane….thieves use skill 3 and 5 and they ahve to wait for more intiative before they can use another skill…oh what switch to a diff weapon set to have more? you CANT! lol sthey all still use initiative. so having slow skills and low defense and NO blocks no burning…..low healing…..dont u think thieves deserve somethign!? i mean cmon stop hating classes you guys never play. you make kill alot as at hief yes….but i die more on my thief than any other class….if im actually engagign in fights regardless of size!

honestly….all those upscales…did u notice? all those easy ranger targets….. none of them used ANY CC skills. they deserve to die they sucked and just ran and didnt fight. any class can cut together a video of fighting crap players. i just did an 8 min fight 1 v 1 with a mesmer and a thief. i dont care how you play. u have to have 2 good players in a 1 v 1 to last 8 mins or more. that said. he prolly showed you about 10% of his fights for the day…the other 90% consist of 1 v 1 2 v 1 and 20 v 20s ect where GOOD PLAYERS use blind…immobilize….stun…. knockback and the thief dies inless than 2 secs. would u like me to make a video of the same build getting owned? and i can make it with all the evades/ports a thief can have and still how you how easy it is to die. how many times CND misses or u dont click SS fast enough. its hard to respond to CC in a perfectly timely manner. thieves are EXTREMELY FRAGILE. the most so in the game. they are SOOOO fragile that infact having the dmg they do is BARELY a fair trade off for their defense. its like showing a film of michael jordan dunking on 100 people. but in reality thats only the first several years of his long career. so u cant say he dunked on everyone everday throught every year of his career. :P

i have seen a few of these thieves that attack while in stealth and go into stealth without using a skill etc. they are hackers … they are very rare and non skilled players. they just use in laymens terms a cheat code. ignore it…go on about your day…report them and take a pic/video if u can although a pic doesnt prove anything. ic an show you a tip to get their names. ive stopped a few this way m yself. target them click /join or /invite …at first it wont show the name…and obviousl a cheater wont join ur party so u can get his name/ ID…so immediately after u click join or invite his blank face will come up on the top left of your screen QUICKLY NOW go to waypoint in SAME ZONE and when u go to the WAYPOINT QUICKLY LOOK at his name. it will show up if he didnt cancel it. then whisper him u have him on video and then go report his cheating kitten

so ud make an opponent invulnerable? thats worse than what it is now! atleast with the 1.5 secs u are hoping they arent ready for it and can capitalize on that fact. but i know what u mean. its a specialized skill and only works in a burst build. taking 1 person out of a fight changes nothing :P moas ahve 2 good skills 1 rupter and 1 amazing run skill number 5 skill. theres no pre requisite for elite skills to have a super long cooldown. they can be 240 or just 45 :P depends on the power of them.

well u cant really upgrade it. anything more than 2 secs is just = to death. u can make it a 5 min cooldown. at 2.5 or 3 secs any nub can pretty much autoattack + haste anyone to death. maybe you mean the skill needs to be totally done away with and made a new one? if increase the CD and increase active venom duration….proportionally its still the same….1/2 as readily usable but also 2x stronger. ive killed a few poorly spec’d players in .5 seconds on my thief. thats their choice to go to glass cannon with no defense tho. if i can do that in .5 secs imagine what the worst player can do in 2 -3 secs. they would totally have to do away with the skill in order to change it. the 45 sec CD is just right for the 1.5 seconds of stone.

trait 1 is AMAZING in PVE i NEVER die. almost never anyway. skill 2 is good if it were longer ranged….skill 3 should be longer invis OR summon thief. if these happen i think its fair and balanced IMO

2 options to fix this skill:
1) make it almost instantaneous (less than .2 seconds)
2) make the knockdown last 2-3 seconds like every other classes KDs