Guild Wars 2

i dont fight i only defend myself. umm i think if the skills are moderated its fair enough. read on last page on teh guard/mesmer F skill vs thief. its atleast a 3 to 1 advantage on thier part. so if thats the case and we all have same amount of utilities….how is it unfair? not talking strenghtbc they arent added in at all or yet etc. in other words they are only OP if made to be OP. are you saying that having extra skills is unfair or the way he wrote them is unfair?

I dont mind dropping it but i cant stop myself from calling you out on BS/lying I QUOTE you said…… """"For starters, CAPS DO NOT HELP MAKE YOUR POINT, THEY ONLY MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE A PREPUBESCENT CHILD. Anyway, now that that’s outta the way.""""" YOU YOU YOU…….hence i believe it WAS directed at me……i even looked “you” up in the dictionary to make sure(sarcasm) nice try getting out of that one. you were rude and irrational and it showed. now your either wicked insane , dellusional or a liar as i ahve pointed it out a few times. but lets just drop it there since defending yourself any further would only make it worse. lets stick to the topic shall we? ty

anyone else have anything they think could/should be changed/added into this idea?

and i can show a video of me on an OFFENSIVE BUILD owning players but dying in zerg fighting. even tryign to be smart. it goes hand n hand. the game isn about getting away its about defending poitns and killing other zergs/capping enemies areas. getting away like i said….saves 10-25 secons and 1silver 50copper roughly. would u like me to send you 1g in the game so you feel thieves are on par and fair? :P

well said. or eles that use their speed RTL and stun AOE thats huge….or mesmers that clone/invis….or warriors which are the fastest movers in game by atleast double maybe tripple …..or engi with allt he bombs/immobs…..or necro life skills/ice AOE i mean every class can do it. thieves do have good mobility *2nd best or tied with warriors for 2nd best and can get out …..but dont forget thats only the case if another thief doesnt catch them. :P ive had a thief try to run away before. i infiltors striked to a Shadow step to a infiltraors signet to a switch to d/d to a steal to a CND BS HS finish all in under 3 secs. so if u say thieves can get away everytime plz put an asterisk saying against a zerg with 0 thieves. or it wont be valid or not AS valid. a thief only has invis skills after they recharge dontforget. if theyve been fighting all they have is kitten and a few HS’s. (btw that string was prolly around 4k distance)

you said that all caps makes me look like a prepubescent child? i merely stated that with that logic you would be a pedofile as i dont see the correlation. bc if caps = prepubescent …i am totally at a loss for words and if its true i’d have to accept the fact that you are a leading authority on prepubscent children. ikittennow alot about that and arent a doctor or psychologist or work in a school system. well what would you infer? well? what are you? are you a DR or something?

@sunflowers. just curious but what class are you? obv not a thief. idk about other people but i dont go to ele rooms and complain that they can spam skills 2-5 literally for hours making other classes look like fumbling infants. what you are doing is trolling. if u wanna post here plz do but be conductive to the chat and productive in suggestions. not saying “thats a bad idea and stupid/op” say “well maybe if they did it for this long or like this blah blah instead” you know? we would love to hear other classes input from their perspective. just as we play thief and u dont know the trials/tribulations we go thru….we may be slighlty more ignorant as to what u go thru as a non thief. try stay positive/open minded ya?

@SUNFLOWERS ….you define risk as surviving /escaping an unsurmountable force. one could also look at that as RISK = Saving 10-25 seconds of running back / saving 1silver 50copper. If u look at it that way. its still not a balanced/op matter. you could say its not fair that thieves dont pay more for repairs since they die less….but then you would sound like a cry baby so its remolded into “unbalanced capabilities”. just another perspective :P

memorizing how to “bold” or italicize doesnt make you more intellectual ….perhaps more computer typing “savvy” . and yes you were. bc what does some a boys body have to do with using capital letters? i dont see a connection. then again i probably dont know much about a boys body. according to your correlative aptitude that would make you a pedofile possessing such prepubescent carnal knowledge? :P also not having a social media account is a common rebuttal when people talk trash online bc they are only hiding behind their anonymity and can only back with opinion and unjustifiable notions of others “physical immaturity” .

back to the real topic. you dont get 4 casts of anything OTHER than heartseeker. where do u get your info. u are obviously an ele or somethign on a thieves forum trolling. death blossom FIVE intiative. dancing dagger FOUR initiative. CnD SIX initiative. OH WAIT . … now i get it…u didnt know how much initiative we get max to start with. that answer is 12. so heartseeker being 3….12/3 =4 12/5 =2.4 12/4=3 and 12/6 =2 im sorry where did you get "At base initiative you get at minimum four casts of any two skill. They all cost three you have 12 initiative. If your going to bring numbers into this then try your best to not to lie. " and anyone who spams heartseeker is just wasting intiative :P and usually by 25% on opponent the thief is out of intiative or has 1 HS left. also HS is a very slow skill. super easy to dodge. i hope a guy is smart enough to save a defensive utility or dodge for crunch time. (crunch time being when hp is in the red zone)(red zone being when hp is at a critical stage)(critical stage being when hp is low enough you could die any moment) just to make it clear. point is that what the threadstarter offered as an idea was a good one. perhaps a lil OP perhaps not….depending on how the skills worked and what they were replaced with. and comparing just f1 on a thief to f1 2 3 4 on mesmer/guard….thief comes up SUPER short. cant deny that. i showed allt he skills above. all to be accurate. you read his starting thread as a this is the way it should be …rather than a baseline starting suggestion. perhaps be constructive since you are so OBVIOUSLY not a thief and havent played one extensively enough to know how to survive and when you cant. jc but what class are you so we all know what/who is trolling us.

srry i should have used the word claiming a name rather than calling? “PREPUBESCENT CHILD”

well ther are other classes that could get ownd but not nearlly 1/2 as fast as a thief for 1…for 2 thief has 1 AOE dmg skill : cluster bomb :P nothing else.

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

i didnt say they were useless sunflowers i merely state/intended to show that shooting trick shots for MOST people is boring….we wanna use our teleports our blinds our big bursts our cool moves with evade like death blossom or in a zerg u dont really escape. more pull back. if u have to escape with your tails between your legs yes. but then again zerg v zerg isnt about escaping. you have to kill as many as you can depending on th ings like location….waypoint advantage…..how long would it take to run back if you died…..can you be revived…..only sometimes is it better to run “incase” you might die. those cases are USUALLY bc you are in a small group or solo. not in zvz. and i dare say d/d ele can do it better. and people that talk about 1 v5s and 2 v 1s a 1vXs really annoy me (no offense) bc it doesnt matter there is no 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 tournies like in gw1 and there is very rarely those cases in WVWVW….and if there is they have 0 bearing on score or reward. personal satisfaction is all that can be achieved and very ararely that bc usually people help and jump in less it be a civilized mutual duel. back to point. thieves have to stay on the edge of fighting. utilizing very few skills they actually have. if you can try SS into the middle of a fight in zvz…..not into the middle of their zerg just at the Point of Contact area….i guarantee u port back in less than 2 seconds having done very little of anything. you really have to…..or die from ranged CC/dmg. i have 12k kills on my thief. (not sure if thats alot but i know its enough to know what im talkin about) so its venom share and sb for me helping my guild in zvz. and we run a VERY organized ZVZ. to the point where running anything else is hurting my guild.

Yes, so in the end you agree with me that the risk to a thief in WvW is low.

The ‘boring’ argument is kind of pointless though. You don’t think mesmers want to shatter, or eles don’t want to use churning earth? Neither of those work in zergs either.

I don’t see glass cannon mesmers run into the middle of zerg fights and try to shatter people with 3 clones. Obviously if you do that on a thief you’re gonna explode too. It’s the same with every class. Some mechanics are locked out when you decide to stay at range.

before i agree define “risk” plz

it really needs a dmg boost…..i mean look at d/d d/p s/p s/d they all have good to great dmg on auto attack. p/d is horrendous and can ONLY be played with bleed build bc it doesnt require dmg. cluster bomb……2 options….dmg and bleed. d/d dmg and poison my favorite…..s/d dmg and cripple/weakness which is eh so so

Dasorine.1964:

Unfortunately WvW wasn’t meant to be balanced around by anets words, and even there a thieves strength lies heavily in their targets court, if that entire zerg cannot kill the thief or lock it in place with all the different ways to CC someone between their stealth (not to mention DURING the stealth at times for those who have managed to keep track of things) then its not just the 3-4 seconds of stealth thats making them “overpowered”, this is also the reason why many people can escape zergs with stealth or without.

Then of course you have the “roamers” who go around solo or in partial teams who then get attacked and die but then again the zone is not designed for those people so while a thief is potentially powerful against them (again depends entirely on the target really, if they know the thief mechanics then its not the thief mechanics that are strong its the player playing it) it comes down to doing something that’s really not intended by either side.

Thief is very very player skill dependant on both sides, take out those factors and thief mechanics are actually very weak, low damage coefficients, low staying power, lowest defense in the entire game.

Start adding them back in and it really comes down to the players, in a 1v1 stealth technically becomes the weakest it will ever be in a fight but the thief itself will be the strongest they ever get, with no one else distracting you from the thieves actions it becomes really quite easy to keep tabs on where the thief is and where they are going which lets you land hits on them while they can’t hit you, however should the thief land its damage with no support that high burst can be the winning factor.

In small group fights stealth becomes the strongest it will ever be but the thief overall becomes much weaker, with people distracting you its hard to keep track of the thief but at the same time you have lots more CC, AoE and ability spam that can take them out accidentally while the thieves attack power isn’t sufficient in those situations, they can potentially down 1 of your glass cannons but outside of that they are below average at dishing out damage to the group and generally a liability as while they may have taken 1 target out they themselves can be taken out just as fast if not faster.

In massive zergs both stealth and thief power plummets, while theres lots to distract you from keeping track of the thief the sheer AoE and skill spam plus the massive burst potential once they pop up can (and should in good groups) mean the thieves death, while the thief again can take possibly 1 person out in a burst build if they are also glass cannons.

Of course there are non burst thief builds that have much better staying powers but those builds no longer have the stealth power of the burst build AND are still technically much weaker than others doing the same.

Had to give you +1 for this. very well said and accurate. But as you subsequently said…. zerg they are bad…..and in wvw zerg is everything. they need to be able to contribute on a lvl as the other classes. they do not! i read alot of “If’s” and “Can’s” in your message. point well taken.

i didnt say they were useless sunflowers i merely state/intended to show that shooting trick shots for MOST people is boring….we wanna use our teleports our blinds our big bursts our cool moves with evade like death blossom or in a zerg u dont really escape. more pull back. if u have to escape with your tails between your legs yes. but then again zerg v zerg isnt about escaping. you have to kill as many as you can depending on th ings like location….waypoint advantage…..how long would it take to run back if you died…..can you be revived…..only sometimes is it better to run “incase” you might die. those cases are USUALLY bc you are in a small group or solo. not in zvz. and i dare say d/d ele can do it better. and people that talk about 1 v5s and 2 v 1s a 1vXs really annoy me (no offense) bc it doesnt matter there is no 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 tournies like in gw1 and there is very rarely those cases in WVWVW….and if there is they have 0 bearing on score or reward. personal satisfaction is all that can be achieved and very ararely that bc usually people help and jump in less it be a civilized mutual duel. back to point. thieves have to stay on the edge of fighting. utilizing very few skills they actually have. if you can try SS into the middle of a fight in zvz…..not into the middle of their zerg just at the Point of Contact area….i guarantee u port back in less than 2 seconds having done very little of anything. you really have to…..or die from ranged CC/dmg. i have 12k kills on my thief. (not sure if thats alot but i know its enough to know what im talkin about) so its venom share and sb for me helping my guild in zvz. and we run a VERY organized ZVZ. to the point where running anything else is hurting my guild.

Issues.5789:

Travlane.5948:

calling people names actually makes you look like a prepubescent child. im a grown man with a family i support im 6’3 and a body builder with a BS in psychology (more than willing to trade facebook info but im sure you wont which says enough ). yeah so nice try tho. Caps is only on the important KEY words incase you were to simple to notice. You could read just the caps and understand the hole message in a nutshell. personally i like skimming most messages as they have lil to nothing of interest/value and putting certain words like that can allow others to quickly decide if they would like to read it or not. most recipes online are in caps…doesnt mean its rude or yelling….i cant put bold or italicized on here as i dont see the option. but im sure you took this into account being more smarter lol.

how is using 3 2x in a row maybe 3 if speced then waying 15 seconds for initiative to get back full a trade off compared to spamming skills without reprieve? i dont understand? yes i did forget fury might swiftness on steal. good point. thieves do get a lil offensive boost from steal if specced right however guards get alot more offensive and alot more defensive and alot more heals….. so…………..? :P it is does matter where it comes from bc from steal a thief has an option to get up to lik 6 or 7 things from it at a time whereas a guard gets triple that from f1 f2 f3 etc. utility skills cancel each other out bc they both ahve the same amount. so you can really only look at the class specific Fs.

Do you even lift?

brah…..

here’s one more hint for you if u don’t believe me. try reading my message as if all the cap words were italicized ….aka putting emphasis on the word with a hard inflection.

calling people names actually makes you look like a prepubescent child. im a grown man with a family i support im 6’3 and a body builder with a BS in psychology (more than willing to trade facebook info but im sure you wont which says enough ). yeah so nice try tho. Caps is only on the important KEY words incase you were to simple to notice. You could read just the caps and understand the hole message in a nutshell. personally i like skimming most messages as they have lil to nothing of interest/value and putting certain words like that can allow others to quickly decide if they would like to read it or not. most recipes online are in caps…doesnt mean its rude or yelling….i cant put bold or italicized on here as i dont see the option. but im sure you took this into account being more smarter lol.

how is using 3 2x in a row maybe 3 if speced then waying 15 seconds for initiative to get back full a trade off compared to spamming skills without reprieve? i dont understand? yes i did forget fury might swiftness on steal. good point. thieves do get a lil offensive boost from steal if specced right however guards get alot more offensive and alot more defensive and alot more heals….. so…………..? :P it is does matter where it comes from bc from steal a thief has an option to get up to lik 6 or 7 things from it at a time whereas a guard gets triple that from f1 f2 f3 etc. utility skills cancel each other out bc they both ahve the same amount. so you can really only look at the class specific Fs.

@SUNFLOWERS zergs score in wvw…thieves are bad in those too. unless u like shooting trick shots all day. but thats no fun. pickin off strays is fun but not helping much. venom share is helpful but not really doing much action (again with sb)

@SWICKHOBO……. really? eles can def spam SKILLS 2-5 for HOURS without stopping. YES …..its a fact. also look at engis skills f1 2 3 4 etc….engis dont even use their utilities bc of those skills they want them up bc they are better! also look at guards… JUST with ther F1-4 they can do this :
REGENATION-
RETALIATION-
FULL HEAL –
MULTIPLE AEGIS-
REMOVE SEVERAL CONDITIONS)-
MULTIPLE BURN-
MULTIPLE PROTECTION-
STUN BREAK
STABILITY
REGENERATION
MIGHT

ON these you can also get RETALIATION from removal of aegis ….HEALS from removal of aegis….HEALS from sharing all these with allies…..AOE burning…..and other stuff that doesnt come to mind…..

ALL FROM …thats right……….. F1 F2 F3 F4

no posibilities on thief F1 (yeah only 1 lol :P )

EXTRA DMG
EXTRA SKILL (50% of them are bunk)
1 SEC STUN
CHANCE AT REFRESHING SKILL
STEAL 2 BOONS

On the guardian you can spec for ALL! on a thief u can get umm….maybe 3 of them. you telling me its OP if we get a few more skills not even the same power but modified down? ….sounds like….hate :P fail. if u are going to argue/debate great. theres no hate on my/our side as thieves. however come correct. come with facts, correlations and not feelings/opinions that are just i dont like it its overpowerd.

about skill 1….ud have to add them both togther or make it super fast or youd never get more than 2 stacks of bleed up :P too slow as is and if u add a vuln slot as a 2nd shot it would be 2x slower. i agree thosomething like that should/could be done! bounce ideas off each other guys.

HatasGunnaHate.3627:

Before you people cry about imbalance please post a video of you playing and your build so the community can determine whether you have a right to your claims. I’m 99% sure most of the cry babies either have sub par gear, builds, and movement (Back peddle, Clicking, Key turning, not dodge rolling). I strongly believe if these things apply to you then you have no right to come to the forums and whine. You are not playing the best you can be playing so of course good people are going to make short work of you “handicapped gamers”.

i agree it is very hard to determine winers from a legit complaint. i am a very very good dueler. however…that said…i cant get into zerg play on my thief. wish they would make blind like gw1 or give us some more armor idk.

SwickHobo.5096:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

I’ve got a better suggestion. Before you press the “Create new thread” button, reread what you just typed, and really really think about what your saying. Its getting quite old to see a new thread on a near daily basis that has you suggesting things that are completely out of whack and just insanely unbalanced. Your class mechanics are steal and initiative. Thanks to initiative you don’t get a f2-4. Get over it.

thanks to intiative…what a noob thing to say…. eles can spam spells nonstop for hours…LITERALLY. we can use 2 skillls and then wait for it to refill ……. look at engineers/mesmers they get f1-f4 with GOOD DMG skills cmon. atleast have a general idea of how other classes are played before making a hate comment. FAIL.

30% wouldnt let u fight in a zerg. and 90% is not insane. wierd how millions played gw1 but didnt quit or reroll bc of the 90% miss chance on blind. infact the ele class was better than anyone at it….they call them blindbots and used RTL (ride the lightning) and anet didnt approve this idea. what they said was they were going to boost our defense somehow by intending us to be a more “sliperrier” class. i suggest this as a way to do it without having to rework mechanics. its a fantastic idea if balanced right. 30% miss chance and a thief still dies in any zerg in the same amount of time. dont forget blind only works on close up melee types unless using SoS. and thats a long recharge.

thats a lil much mr warrior guy.

Ekemeister.8905:

Aberrant.6749:

This would be far to strong…

As opposed to far too weak? Like we are now. I don’t see how this is more powerful than engi’s gadgets, guardian virtues, warrior burst, or death shroud. Care to offer thought or constructive criticism as opposed to a mere complaint.

Replace refuge with blinding powder, and this idea is genius. Refuge is buggy and constricts player to an aoe to get the full effect. This idea also frees up utility slots so the class can do more to help a group.

i have to 2nd this. although i like SR the way it is.. if it wasnt buggy we wouldnt get 12 secs of stealth. if we did get 12 secs and could leave right away it would be too OP. it has just the right amount of give right now. although i think enemies should be blinded in it. and that blind should not remove unless u hit somebody or atleast blind with a 75% chance to miss for the duration of it like in gw1 *(although that was 90% chance to miss)

PopeUrban.2578:

BlackBeard.2873:

I agree that blindness is pretty useless as is. Here are couple of suggestions:

- Blindness stacks, and each stack multiplies hit chance by 0.85 geometrically (i.e. you have a 0.85, 0.7225, 0.6141, 0.522, 0.4437, 0.377, 0.3206, etc hit chance for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc) or 0.8 geometrically (i.e. 0.8, 0.64, 0.512, 0.41, 0.327, 0.262, 0.2097, etc. for 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, etc) for each stack for 3 seconds. Thus, 1 stack isn’t debilitating, but it can become some very good damage mitigation at higher stacks. Also, by scaling geometrically, you get diminishing returns and never miss 100%.

-Have blindness stack give 0.8 miss rate (20% hit rate) and stack for # of attacks. (these numbers could be tuned. Again, this doesn’t 100% shut down attacks, and can be overcome by proccing many times, but still offers some decent damage mitigation.

These changes would have to come with some burst reduction on thieves with greater sustained damage (as planned).

“effectiveness stacking” Is actually a pretty good idea for blind as mitigation, provided it still clears the entire stack with a single remove so as not to overpower it.

i like your base idea but those numbers i think are horrible off. .80% chance to hit is nothing……i mean if we had blindness in an auto attack like sword….would be good but by the time the rotation starts againt he blindness is off. so by that math you would have to put 3 blinds on per second to have any real dmg reduction…..or more like 7 if you can still remove it by swinging blindlessly in the air.

ATTACKING IN STEALTH DOES NOT REMOVE STEALTH> UNLESS YOU HIT.
ATTACKING IN BLIND DOES REMOVE BLIND > EVEN IF U DONT HIT.

daros.3407:

Travlane.5948:

you say 1 hit now you say 1 sec. can u make up your mind. and its NOT the topic but your language is very bad. its hard to debate with you bc your english is horrible. i dont mean to knock you im just saying that you dont make any sense. and if u have been reading spvp tpvp wvw and pve are going to be SEPARATE …that means that each skill will act DIFFERENTLY in each according to power. and yes its a good idea. every one of the skills form Gw1 transfered pretty much the same except for blind. it will not break the game…wanna know why? it didnt break the other game? it might act different….but if regulated for time or % then yes it will work perfectly. maybe you think my idea is bad bc u cant understand it due to lingual barriers. some players might not like this bc thieves are hard to target but they are not hard to kill. thieves need and already are PROMISED a defensive boost. doesnt matter if u like it or not. they are getting one bc they are unbalanced in a lacking manner.

I undeartand you absolutely WELL. Do you know difference between passive and active english? No i suppose. And you are first IN YEARS who is complaining on my english. So i do not take you seriously…..Maybe problem is in you….Or in your dialect if you are from english speaking countery…..My english exams from my University can prove that i at least understand english perfectly :-DD
I do not ( i am avoiding don’t becouse it is hard to wright it on my non english keyboard :-D ) agree with you becouse i do not agree with your idea….This is true reason and not english :-DD
Thies could use more deff. but not this.

disagreeing with me is fine but again your not understanding. or writing correctly. you are right….you CAN understand me….but as i was SAYING……“I” cannot understand you because your lack of adequate english! my idea is fine and workable within the game. it may not be liked by thief haters or other non thief classes but i guarantee alot of thieves would start playing wvw again. incase you havent noticed…there are many that quit playing thief in wvw. there is a reason for that.

full acro full shadow 10 in trickery. SB and d/p for invis or d/d for leaping distance. shadow step. Signet of shadows. shadows refuge. hide in shadows. (no other choice) ignore the initiative signet as its garbage for this build. would u rather be invis or be running while visible? :P u cant use intiative skills and stay in stealth. best option is SS to SR to HiS to a bunch of heartseekers away. siometims its better to run thru a zerg as they wont see it coming. for instance run away a few steps while invisig then turn on them and run thru.

would be nice. bc i gotta say there are only usefull traits in shadow arts. the rest are mediocre (choosable ones) other than maybe 2-3 like 20% dmg under 50% hp and another 1 idk….but most the grandmaster ones are so so. even in shadowarts i have granmaster and dont use x xi or xii :P sometimes i do use xii but thats in bleed build. but a coupel hundred hp in invis aint that strong.

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

No.

That would make your class OP as kitten.

im pretty sure that engineers have just as many strong skills in f1 f2 f3 f4 from their utilities…but not thiefs…too op…yeah ay too loll ….imo its a sound idea!

and ther eis no invisble forever. just seems like that. and going invis for a long time takes away all initiative and some utnility skills. be thankful for that. you see invis as offense…u should really see it as defense. but you obv dont play a thief. the ONLY good thieves right now are the ones with a really fast reaction time. the rest get ownd.

Sil.4560:

It still blows my mind that they want to make a class that can effectively remain invisible forever in WvW be even more “slippery”.

sil u have to play a thief to understand. 99.9% of complaints are from 1 v1 scenarios…..if u complain abut those you are an IDIOT bc they mean nothing and anywhere. the only viable builds are bleed invis and d/p invis bc its OUR only defense. maybe if blind worked the way i said ti should u would see other kidns of thievs that dont wanna go invis. without blind they way i say or invis. thieves will 99.9% NOT BE PLAYED bc they die in less than 2 secs in any zerg fight….unless they invis/ss out even then its a small chance of getting out. the best wvw players and pvp players have AOE effects and AOE CC. medium dmg to match and the team with the most CC / aoe dmg wins. its simple. would u rather have a player that hits 10k per ONE player or 2500 per 5 players? the answer is 2500 per 5 incase you are bad at math. thieves really suck if u think otherwise than you are just a skirmisher and should play mesmer/thief. think outside the box plz.

Rayya.2591:

they are decent
comparation :
mango pie wich can provide you 70 hp /sec = 2100 -30 sec
hide in shadows – 6000 /sec
omnomberry pie /ghost 325 /2 sec – 4875/ sec if you use them at maximum potential

4875 a sec from omnom pie? wtf?

true yam but it would have to be modified. this is how i see it should be: Invis 2 secs each for 90% chance to miss (stackable time) which means ur around 4 secs max. dont forget its removable. that said you could steal or SS into a big zerg battle….then pop blind powerder backstabe death blossom SoS deathblossom then SS out. it allows you to get in there and atleast be able to attack. u do that now ur dead before you attack. i mean right now we cant even get an attack off in zerg play. this would help. or maybe 50% less dmg recieved for thieves. we have low hp low low LOW defense no blocks and no dmg reduction. :P fail on devs part. sure we have good dmg but its not really op since they keep nerfing t hieves…which is fine but its time for a buff on the defensive side. right now we do dmg on par with mesmers and just above some times of warriors. before it was a landslide….now its comparable if not less than phantams shatter memsers. poof dead theif in 1 sec. OR theycould boost dmg on trickshot 40% and make it .25 seconds to shoot each arrow like its supposed to be but right now its bugged its about .95 seconds per shot…way too slow.

you say 1 hit now you say 1 sec. can u make up your mind. and its NOT the topic but your language is very bad. its hard to debate with you bc your english is horrible. i dont mean to knock you im just saying that you dont make any sense. and if u have been reading spvp tpvp wvw and pve are going to be SEPARATE …that means that each skill will act DIFFERENTLY in each according to power. and yes its a good idea. every one of the skills form Gw1 transfered pretty much the same except for blind. it will not break the game…wanna know why? it didnt break the other game? it might act different….but if regulated for time or % then yes it will work perfectly. maybe you think my idea is bad bc u cant understand it due to lingual barriers. some players might not like this bc thieves are hard to target but they are not hard to kill. thieves need and already are PROMISED a defensive boost. doesnt matter if u like it or not. they are getting one bc they are unbalanced in a lacking manner.

steal life isnt extra dmg. just heals you that part :P so if every hit you do does 1000 dmg and then you pop a ghost….now you steal 200 life per hit too….you still do 1000 dmg but get healig200 hp. i COULD be wrong but long time ago this is how everyone explained it to me!

keeping the same duration and id take it. not too good but still better. i wish some people here still remember playing or have played gw1 before

ok your english is horrible for 1. for 2….im a condi thief 80% of the time i play. the other 20 % is sword/dagger. i have 12k kills on my thief alone. i can prove with a screenshot. you …mostlylikely cannot on a thief. 3…i NEVER said 1 hit retal would be useful. what i SAID>..was… it would STILL be MORE USEFULL than blind even with 1 hit. plz learn english good before go and comment on other speaking right forum talk. lol

might help our defense too ya?

style.6173:

The better question is why are thieves so scarce in WvW these days.

bc they suck in fights. they are good at roaming/ 1 v 1 maybe 2 v 1…..but defense is just horrendous. u go into a zerg fight u have to use a SB or die. that help?

ensoriki.5789:

15% damage nerf
Quickness nerfed by half.

said it perfect. theives get nothing but nerfed. we kidna suck now. only good if the player is good/can react fast enough. ummm also….auto attack has more dmg per time than pistol whip. :P

Amins.3710:

oZii.2864:

Jeez people just make a thief and learn it. It really isn’t that hard to counter its just that thief isn’t a straight forward engagement. Just like mesmer’s aren’t straight forward. Thats why they are 2 of the best skirmishers in the game I would put engis there now along with D/D ele’s. Those 4 classes aren’t straight forward fights, you have to ask, read, or play one to understand how and what they are doing if you don’t you can get wrecked. If you don’t want to roll one just ask someone that plays that class what to look for. Go to the mist learn it otherwise your at a disadvantage because of lack of knowledge.

Thieves are so easy to counter its not funny. Their ability to disengage at will is a design of the class that you have to deal with.

Sintacs, you and I both know how easy it is for a thief to pull a mob into combat to use as your stealth trigger, only to bail out, jump to 1200 range to get out of combat for your reset, only to re-engage before your opponent is OOC.

This is compounded even moreso when thieves are grouping w/ say, a guardian or ele who can bunker down a bit.

People will not kill a good thief if a thief chooses not to die.

Yes, if the rotation is screwed up or missed, you ~can~ die. But good players don’t mess up very often. More importantly,Thief is the only class that can go full zerker w/o much downside.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want the damage nerfed. But stealth mechanics are just so grossly OP… from the zerg stealth bombing down to the 1v1’s… and the only reason they haven’t fixed it is because they can’t figure out what to do w/ the thief class, which relies soo heavily upon stealth:

They built the class around stealth rather then building a class that has access to stealth.

They can’t/won’t fix it until the figure out how to make the thief class better in the other aspects of it’s gameplay.

I love the class, I love people who play the class in a group setting, I just don’t like the Stealth Mechanics of this game… there is ~no~ downside to Stealth: Movement isn’t impaired while stealthed, there’s no chance to see / reveal based on proximity & the re-stealth timer is ridiculously low.

Every mechanic in every MMO, which made stealth ~not~ OP, was removed and no counter was added: there’s no ability that allows people to see stealth (boon/ability) or reveal stealth (on dmg) etc.

That’s the gripe.

Not the damage.

again a non thief complaining…..id like to tell you that ATLEAST HALF of CnDs (cloack and dagger) which is incase you dont know HALF OF OUR INITIATIVE. u dodge 2 CnDS you win the fight….so u really cant say we dont mess up alot. and leaving a fight to reengage? ahaha have you seen our utilities? 60 sec recharges 45 on the low end. in that time a guard can recover the same if not more bc of heals. pffft. way off dude. who cares if we can stealth and get out. unless a person is sayin LETS TAKE AWAY STEALTh and give thiefs a 40% defense boost……get lost bc ur not even in the right ballpark. with our current lack of defense/blocks/dmg reduction and by lack of i mean 0….we are owed a good invis and even more actually. pooof.

Sunflowers.1729:

I did make a thief, why do people claim that the thief isn’t low risk?

If I can’t beat him I will stealth and run away, simple as that. How is that not low risk?

Edit: If you get perma-locked down by someone with tons of cc, find the dodge button and press it. Use Shadowstep. Dodge while inside Shadow Refuge. Nobody will ever catch you.

ur not a thief very long or ur lying about even having one. in a 1 v 1 its kinda easy to get away. but guess what there are no 1 v 1 scenarios in this game. well maybe 2% of the time in wvw u might run into one. so its irrelevant. anyway ….no blocks….. no defense to take dmg….no dmg reduction….. we do have decent condi removal although thats not what kills us…its direct dmg….we are very easy to CC so in a 2 v 1 or more you are goign to get CCd its why i run 30 in acro for wvw. thief is the HIGHEST risk. if u look at which classes die most….thief is up there. unless we are talking about 1 v 1 scenarios. and as ive said those are irrelevant.

@SILFERAS so what did they do in gw1 …nerf every viable weaponset /build for assassinS? no it worked fine bc they downgraded the time u were blinded for. and if there is only 1 viable build for tpvp….there in lies a problem…..thieves cant hold up bc they die to fast. im asking for devs to BOOST blind only so we can get in there and mix it up within multiplayer fights. its why thieves have to stay invis all the time…its why there is…accroding to you only 1 build for tpvp…although the caltrop bleed bunker build is no good? ive held spots for 90 seconds against 4-5 players all the time with that build…..and im sure if ur any good at math u can figure out that if 4-5 players are stuck at 1 spot…the rest of my team owns everything else/attacking their lord. so by buffing blind….In NO WAY will any build be destroyed in the thieves repertoire.

@DAROS you are really hard to understand so ima try respond the best way i could infer your words. what skill/trait refills AND invis you unless u mean ur talking about 2…bc no one skill does both. and if ur really using death blossom more than once ur a bad thief. the skill is totally bunk for the intiative and requires you to be too close….which as i said u only get 2 bleeds / hits off almost everytime. if retal was 1 hit it would STILL be more usefull than blindness. BLINDNESS DOES NOT BLOCK AN ATTACK ……. QUOTE ME>>>>>>BLINDNESS BLOCKS ANY SWING OF A WEAPON INTENDED OR NOT INTENDED TO HIT>>>>>hence the condition is useless. its only usefull with skill 5 pistol against melee and even melee SHOULDNT get hit by it bc the range of every melee weapon is LONGER than the radius of the cloud produced from the shot. oh? whats that? the shot blinds too? ok…..swing as soon as u see it……BOOM blindness gone….real pro right? right now the only usefull blind is blinding powder bc its basically instantaneous and can get you out of a crunch. the rest are pretty much bunk.

thats interesting. or maybe themeslves if nobody is around? something would b nice

damunk damunk damunky…making me shake my head. the point is that thieves have no defense other than invis and even invis we get hit alot…i mean ALOT. we dont have dmg reduction and we dont have blocks. we dont ahve clones to deflect dmg to. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. i suggested that we REVERT blind back to what it was in GW1….that means guild wars 1. 90% chance to miss for a few seconds. btw u really never see the BIG hit coming . its random or too fast. or comes after ur stunned/immobilized. and big hits are NEVER 1 shot …only 1 shot big hits are from thieves. the rest are whirls or combo dmg like shatter or bombs. so nothing u said really makes sense. thieves have no defense and this small change would make a world of difference for thieves being playable in wvw. as of right now thieves can only venom share and chill they cant really participate in wvw. if u think (well how come they can 2 v1 alot?) well if anything thinks that 2 v1s being owned can change scores in gw1 or the flow of a zerg battle you are a dink and should never comment again to save us the time reading your thoughtless dribble. and using evades? like what? u mean dodge rolls? 2 per 10 secs? lovely….yeah lets rely our ENTIRE defense/dmg avoidance on the same rolls EVERY class gets. even our utilize skills…what use SS? ok great heres 1 avoidance skill…now way 60 secs to try again. srry without a BASE skill thats build into your 1-5s OR traits theres nothign that can help sustain a calss in a fight defensively. blind being build in as a 2-3 sec block 90% attack can help with moderation a thief fightin withing zergs and jump out aftger used up without dying in less than 2 secs everytime . if u say u dont die in a zerg its bc ur stand outside like a kitten with a shortbow using skill 1 and 3 all day. yay fun. the WORST PART about blind is you dont even have to attack anyone to get rid of it. just attack the air… poof gone. blind is a joke. might as well not have it at this point. revert it to gw1 style or give thieves the proper defense they need. one has to happen. as they said it would btw

again…like i said above….the blind skills will have to be downgraded in duration. again…..small tweaks. but having the blind like gw1 would overall be better . it would prevent remaking the entire classes defense.

most of the skills are the same from gw1

and phantasm zerk mesmers are a nightmare to deal with on my thief. every class has another thats hard for it.

Amins.3710:

Humorless.1573:

Amins.3710:

The problem is the thieves ability to get out of combat via stealth and back into combat while their opponent is still stuck in combat… giving the thief a full health bar during re-engagement.

It’s a joke. The “Revel” buff did absolutely ~nothing~ to skilled players. Rotation changed by adding in an auto attack (oh my!), but that’s it.

There is still ~zero~ downside to going full glass cannon.

More importantly, the Dev’s comment about “Just AoE” for their ‘hard counter’ is a joke: I should just walk around swinging my sword blindly to counter a stealth thief…. I mean, really? How ~LAME~ can you be?

Good job talking when you don’t have a clue how the game works. Stealthing does not remove combat… ever. You can agro a mob, use refugee and afk near the mob and you’ll never leave combat as long as the mob lives and you’re near.

Clearly you missed the point, so let me spell it out….

Yes, stealth and ~staying by the mob~ does nothing for getting out of combat.

Stealthing and port/blink/leap (whatever you feel like calling it) 1200 range, however, does. It gives you full health and full initiative while you walk back into combat.

More importantly, you can apply a condition or agro mobs and train them into your opponent and then do this… leaving your opponent in combat while thieves have the luxury of getting out of combat.

Maybe it’s you who doesn’t understand the nuances of the class.

[EDIT] I do not want a thief’s damaged nerfed… I never have, but stealth needs a big fat kick in the nutz.

you so obviously dont play a thief. if u nerf stealth would u be ok with us having aegis…protection…retaliation and confusion? or just give us the warriors standard defensive levels? i mean if ur going to kick our stealth in the nuts ….its funny…even as stealth the way it is…the devs wanna give us a lil boost to our defens……i guess stealth cant be that strong.. point its is that its SOOOOOOOOOO annoying for other players….just like mesmers doing it and making clones at same time. atleast a thief doesnt do constatn dmg in stealth. a mesmer can tho. also a thief cant drop battle mode by running away. if he DOES get far enough away the other person will heal up too just like the thief. if he does its bc he has a condition….which is totally 100% circumtstancial as im sure the thief could have had condis too. trust me nobody is putting condis to do dmg then running far enough to heal. if they are …then the other person ihas a really bad build. bring anti stun….condi removal…and CC of your own to wvw. if u dont go play pve. ty