Guild Wars 2

DeceiverX.8361:

I only went core D/D for a few games because the matchup volatility was so bad it didn’t matter what I played (I played meta Daredevil for almost 50 games and a lot of the teams were just so bad I couldn’t carry because my point-fight presence wasn’t good enough); I actually ended up winning more straight games on my “troll” build than I did on meta Daredevil just because of how the cards fell by luck on teammates – and my gains were more substantial since I was consistently getting multiple top stats due to the damage it pumps out, which the decap role doesn’t really reward at all. I’m back to power reaper and things are sailing much smoother now as people fall into the tiers they belong in and I’m in a position to actually hold points, and figure once I start pushing the build to its limits in the plat area where I can no longer carry fights on my own, I’ll probably go back to playing the meta Daredevil as I can then trust my teammates to not stand off-point, win a few fights to make decaps meaningful, and the likes.

kittening nailed it bro. this is exactly. ive been fighting this truth too. i main thief and never play guardian. but moved to guardian with copy n paste meta….. 9-0 first 9 matches and proceded to 13-2.

if classes were balanced/not OP there wouldnt be a real stacking issue.

0_o

nuff said. op|||

15 char bleh bleh

BrotherBelial.3094:

Travlane.5948:

Ragnarox yes they are in PVP not WVW….. whats the diff? forced to play on point and cap areas basically same size as traps.

tech u are right they are not OP but they kinda are in SPVP bv of point caps.

semantics anyone?

Then you need to play better. Traps guards are free kills 1vs1.

only if you are dumb. then you fight for a while yes you should win 1v1 (unless they have dragons maw …class dependent) but they got 15-20 points off you being a tardo trying to fight on a small point with traps.

make cap points 2x larger. problem solved

i never played guardian in pvp as its not my playstyle and ive been playing since gw1 and 2 release.

i decided to try it 2 days ago. 12-2. never before played. hmmmm also im in gold but thats neither here nor there. class is cheeze right now bc of cap points being so small

Ragnarox yes they are in PVP not WVW….. whats the diff? forced to play on point and cap areas basically same size as traps.

tech u are right they are not OP but they kinda are in SPVP bv of point caps.

semantics anyone?

double size of cap points. problem solved.

guardians are op in pvp but not wvw….HMMMMMMMMM what could the diff be?

its bc DH is easy and slightly OP. small cap points make it even stronger. its ok in mid at legacy……but not on sides.

dh is overplayed for obvious reasons. dont be dumb. they need a trap nerf. gg all

pelle no i was refuring to the dmg output being unblockable

how about make backstab unblockable? i mean thats pretty much the same thing.

anyway so i decided to be unbiased i had to give DH a try. im in gold….yes i know bad placement matches blah blah blah. ok that aside i went 7-0 to start. then lost 1 then won 2. 9-1.

ive….never….played….DH. i played staff heal guard years ago in WVW thats it. more to come

dragons maw nerf. that would make it ok for me. no way to counterplay that without invuln or huge blocks

yeah so much fun. (sarcasm)

yeah i agree. so lame. they should be supplementary. imagine if tripwire for thieves did what guardians traps do……. whole internet would break.

smdh.

no im pretty clear. thanks.

yes they can literally have all that in same build. maybe not in abundance….. but its all there

yes dadefyl. that would make more sense
2x bigger wouldnt be that much IMO

and yes i can beat guardians 80% of the time but problem is time. PPT (points per tick) during that time never equal out.

run straight into traps? u mean on points where anet tells us we HAVE TO go to win?

i mean pvp is literally set up for DH right now. most literally. they have everything but bleeds all in the same build. medicore mobility too to be honest.

they should make backstab unblockable. thatll level the field.

so a heavy who has access to

heavy burns and other condis
huge AOE unblockable point burst
CC (pulls) pushes
several skills to block for multiple seconds at a time
huge heals
1200 range backstab damage (true shot)
heavy armor (toughness)
teleports

def a lil much. but its ok bc DH dont really bleed people so it balances out (sarcasm)

DHs are just OP.

traps and can pull you in insta kills or darn close
1200 range hitting for 7500 on true shot 3500 on others.

psh yeah. no skill bubbies

Ok here is the way i view it. i run SP STAFF and staff is my secondary. dp is always first.

WHY STAFF?

PROS:
Vault on others trying reviving players (best move for this)
great opener (dodge roll to steal to vault to weapon swap)
gets out of immob

CONS:
lose extra mobility with infil arrow to decap (HS can be used instead but obviously not as good)

WHY USE SB?

PROS:
Extra mobility to decap

CONS:
little to no offense
No pulmonary impact
cant interrupt
kills initiative bad when you have to swap after you get decap

Another way i look at it…SB vs no SB….. its basically about INFIL arrow right? ok lets say you are running from point B to C to decap far….. it can save you like 4-7 seconds depending on the map. basically 1 kill (5pts) that you COULD get with a more agressive DP STAFF build if played right and not over estimating your disengagement criteria. you should still be decapping obvioulsy. so the net gain/loss you would have to choose for yourself. to each their own. depends how good you are at thief. i find less thieves running SB these days.

another drawback: decapping works with a good team who knows how to rotate and disengage and not just jump into 2v1 and 3v1s (unless you already have the cap and saving points)

/15 char

lil buzzed for this. looking for good feedback or CONSTRUCTIVE critics. love playing new season…has its def drawbacks.

didnt run bandits defense as i like the extra initiative and dodges to create space and be more aggressive.

Maugetarr.6823:

Travlane.5948:

Maugetarr.6823:

I wonder if they thought about how much weaker this is mechanically than cloaked in shadow which can be used reactively also and would prevent both the CC and the damage from the attack in a shorter timeframe.

I’m happy that they are introducing “on reveal” traits to encourage aggressive gameplay, but how about something like “transfer a condition to your target on reveal” which would improve non-SA sustain and help curb the condi meta since crit damage is being brought down. It would also open up new S/D, P/D, and D/X builds.

This trait only seems useful for escaping guardian wards right now.

pfft. no. why do i say no?

the line of warding and circle ward they use with hammer are actually wider than they look. so by the time you get stability for 1 sec…it expires as you are still walking across and you get knocked down. you will be knocked down on the reverse side if you make it tho.

You would be able to dodge roll out, but that is literally the only thing I could stretch my imagination as to where the stability could be purposefully used. Everything else would most likely come down to luck since it would be dependent on their positioning and you being in stealth before the skill was activated as it would be ridiculously short to land a CnD and then stealth attack to gain stability after you recognize the attack and before it hits.

mmmhmmm. but thinkabout how few stuns in the game dont need a target right? and of those they have to be slow cast times bc thta would be the only way there would be enough time to react and exit stealth. this is def a supa-fail for anet. same ol’ same ol’

recap? a warrior has more long distance ability than thief. so i guess yeah a thief can do that if hes just recapping. not sure that makes thief strong tho. warrior is very interchangeable as well as other class (but they ahve to be very build specific….can still do it well just very niche’d)

1v1s? not really part of any mode in gw2…. so pvp? eh…other than capping i wouldnt play a thief (and i play thief main 99% of the time. 4 legendaries on him full ascended…the works. just saying so u dont thinkim a thief hater. i love mine)

defending points? thief? lol @ defending a point in pvp. thieves are always pushed off point from stealth, dodging, evading, hiding, porting and just plain avoiding AOE. all the while the opponent is capping and earning points.

De-capping w/ another player(s) on point? lol again. other team earns points while thief is acting all tricking going all over the place with the same things mentioned above but even if by some chance he does beat a player on point (not likely considering its a small area usually and thieves need larger ones to do well) he will have lost many points bc he couldnt contest the point or push another player off. there is NO point pressure other than cluster bombs and OTHER classes actually have blocks/invuln and pushes/pulls/fears and so much more.

wvw? thief is 100% the best here….at trolling. 1v1 sure still very good. def the best 1v1’er in wvw. ill give us that. however….1v1 has NO place in wvw. it doesnthelp anything other than the thief feel good about himself.

When we look at OP’ness we SHOULD be looking at how 1 character can do well and change outcomes of team or goal play. 1v1’ing doesnt change anythign in any mode. and since thief is a joke outside of 1v1 2v2 ….its the exact opposite of useful (in the sense you would almost always rather have another player class)

PVE? fun for farming and great class for skipping things. other than that most other classes are better at PVE. not much to be said here.

Why is this in its entirety? what will fix thief to make him a team player?

- since thief burst was cut over 50%…. we need more HP to help us outlast the lack of dmg we had originally traded for in lieu of defense.

- we need better non stealth condition removal

-we need f2 f3 atleast

- we need IR un-nerfed on s/d or a total rework of s/d

- we need AA fixed on p/d and skill 2 as well

- we need more team support options I.E. > utilities, aoe, debuffs or more range

- unroot s/p pistol whip and decrease dmg 15%

many other things too but some of the ideas that can make thief viable in team play other than going invis and staying at the edge turning a 5v5 into a 5v4 (in favor of opponents)

Selver.1307:

I trade out the 10 in acro for mug when I roam and use long reach; use it for the purpose of the thread too, when I forget to run by retrainer. the 21s cd on mug is sexy and solo roaming the vigor from bountiful is more than enough normally.
For this one however, I am usually within 900 of my target, rendering long reach useless, and I’ve explained my reasoning for my open utilities. unload, unload, steal, roll, wire, BP, unload. generally target is down (remember, you are with 1-4 others, and this target is injured already. i also don’t run any toughness aside from a little on the backpiece because if I am in the wrong place I am dead anyway to hammertrain if I am not fast enough on steps.
It really isn’t something you leave the garrison with hoping to pull off some crazy outnumbered fights, and it isn’t something you even win any 1v1’s with unless you really just caught someone off guard (“what the kitten? pistol pistol? No way I just died to unload spam…” [goes to GW2 forums to create a thread about nerfing thieves; pp in particular]).

Regardless, I am just wanting to share things that hopefully don’t devolve into woe and lamentation the end is near bullkitten. We do need some good healthy feedbacks on the forums – especially our side of the tracks.

I am waiting with baited breath to see how these new traits roll out before I even utter a word about them.

why wait to talk about new traits? guild wars 2 puts them out ther for us to see ahead of time to get feedback. it helps them adjust them more fairly and brings up points they may not have considered. also the fun factor is considered

Burnfall.9573:

Zacchary.6183:

infantrydiv.1620:

Thief burst is absolutely insane against terribads.

fixed*

I completely disagree with that statement

(even Yishi will too)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Lh8Oogl6Y

• as they all self suicide by attacking daggerstorm with ranged attacks**

then i turned it off. yishis very rarely plays good players. TIER 1 servers are HORRIBLE at 1v1 and small combat. this is notoriously know.

infantrydiv.1620:

How dumb are you people? Thief burst is absolutely insane in wvw.

Is this a joke thread? Are you all a bunch of trolls?

you mean they are good at 1v1 right?

You realize 1v1 has no place in wvw…no place in any format. so we are strong in something that has no relevance. and either dead last or 2nd to last in everything that matters. oh yeah now i get it :P

Maugetarr.6823:

I wonder if they thought about how much weaker this is mechanically than cloaked in shadow which can be used reactively also and would prevent both the CC and the damage from the attack in a shorter timeframe.

I’m happy that they are introducing “on reveal” traits to encourage aggressive gameplay, but how about something like “transfer a condition to your target on reveal” which would improve non-SA sustain and help curb the condi meta since crit damage is being brought down. It would also open up new S/D, P/D, and D/X builds.

This trait only seems useful for escaping guardian wards right now.

pfft. no. why do i say no?

the line of warding and circle ward they use with hammer are actually wider than they look. so by the time you get stability for 1 sec…it expires as you are still walking across and you get knocked down. you will be knocked down on the reverse side if you make it tho.

evilapprentice.6379:

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

anything im missing here?

A bunch of things, but here’s two important ones:

1) We have other sources of Stability, and they stack.

I’m super confused as to why you keep saying this. It’s such a weak point, and you keep leading with it, it makes it hard to take any of your arguments seriously. Even if it were true, this argument would be bad.

Our sources of stability are a stolen ability, stealing it with Bountiful/LS, Lyssa’s, and Daggerstorm. We can throw daggerstorm right out – no one is running a serious PvP build that dodges out of a 90s elite for 8s of stability, and it clashes with Lyssa’s. The stolen ability is highly situational, seeing as you need to steal from a specific class to get it, and saving it for an opportune time denies you access to steal (which a lot of builds rely on as a gap closer and for its traited effects)

Let’s pretend we take your comment at face value, and we do have good access to stability via other sources. If that’s the case, what good is an additional One second with such an odd use case? To even have the opportunity to extend an existing stability, you have to be in stealth first – stability isn’t useless in stealth, but it certainly reduces its value (Since you know…you’re in stealth) – you’re reducing the value of stability for 1-3 seconds (Since most players aren’t just going to stand around and wait to be hit once you stealth) just to extend it by 1 second…not a great tradeoff.

If you plan on granting yourself stability after you’ve come out of stealth, congratulations, you wasted most of the stability granted by this trait casting the ability to grant you more stability. If you’re having trouble seeing how silly that is, there’s not much else I can do to help.

2) Fights don’t take place in the Danger Room. Real combat is kinda chaotic.

You seem to think thief plays like a Warrior – getting into the thick of things, absorbing hits and damage, etc etc etc… Thief relies on avoidance rather than mitigation to survive. The only thief specs that are going to be under constant fire from multiple targets are the kinds that evade alot like S/P or S/D. They gain very little from stability because their goal is to not be hit at all.

In short, 1.3 seconds of stability triggered by being revealed is an awful, nigh useless mechanic that is poorly designed. Even if we ignore nearly every other issue with its design, It can’t be used on it’s own tactically due to how it’s triggered. Attempting to extend an existing stability using it is also generally a wash, since being in stealth helps reduce the need for stability in the first place and consumes more than 1.3 seconds of your time, as most targets will not sit still and wait to be hit when you stealth.

The kinds of specs that would see the most use out of mindlessly generated stability(S/D and S/P, due to their ability to mix it up in group fights) have even less incentive to take it because their survival is based on evasion rather than mitigation, so they’re already trying to avoid most hits, and on top of that neither of those specs have much use for stealth in the first place.

All it’s going to be used for (at least in the current meta) is for guaranteeing you wont be interrupted using HS once after a Backstab – that’s a pretty kittenty “best case sceanrio” for a grand master trait, especially considering the stiff competition in other trees.

I’d rather stop at fluid strikes and take Serpents touch, since poison is a strong debuff and it can be used intuitively, tactically, and skillfully.

this.

i think he might be trolling…. idk. just for giggles….(i know its a sure bet) but lets make a bet with him. and anet can hold me to this. lets bet 50g each to his 100g. so he gets 50g each from us (100g total) and we split his 100g (50g each of us) depending on who wins.

BET: show us withing a 10 minute CONTINUOUS time frame in random SPVP (has to be shown random) that you can use it 3 times and have it actually counter a CC.

you might get ONE…out of pure luck. but according to you… you should get ATLEAST 2 per match.

if you dont take that very generous and conservative bet….. then you should just stop debating its good. everyone else things its insulting to give us a 30 point trait for 1 sec of stability on a non stealth trait line that only affects AFTER you drop stealth. really. if the guy with the girly hair on ANET team really played thief…he would never have said this is a high skill cap kind of trait. . . unless he mean AI level of high as in our reaction time could never use it outside of pure luck99.9% of the time.

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

he means its better under no circumstance. which means it sux. and i agree. the only time i see it work is when a zerg hits you with aoe….even when thathappens you are usually dead anyway.

No, it means you’re not thinking it through. This new SA trait means that I can throw down a Shadow Refuge on top of a bunch of Ram masters at a door, and they will just huehuehue at the Arrow Cart damage for 19+ seconds since it’s going to be reduced by 75% or more. And it can be combined with Shadow Protector, which is going to see more use now.

It also means that I can blast a smoke field with Cluster Bomb and get my group past the a blob’s front line relatively unscathed.

This trait is going to be huge in coordinated WvW. Thieves were already better than people expected in group combat, now they will be even moreso.

if you think you can get away from combat and change it back to rejuv when the battle begins. sure i could see that as a use. :P

heres reality.

many builds that use stealth get AOE blind on stealth
many builds that use stealth get away from potential dmg in stealth

^^^^^^^^^ these mean 1sec of stability will almost never be used ^^^^^^^^^

s/d is most likely to use this trait.

S/D stealth attacks (skill 1) gives opponent blind or daze. either way when they wear off so will have stability. hence….useless.

anything im missing here? other than the fact you would have to luckily be in stealth….the opponent would have to target you with a SLOW cast AOE stun/push/pull etc AND you would have to amazingly use mug to get out of stealth in order for the stability to cancel the cc.

if you only count SLOW cast CCs….theres prolly only a couple. literally prolly like 2 or 3 max. the rest are fast or target only….meaning if you are in stealth they cant cast them.

THIS TRAIT is 99% USELESS ! the only time u can use it is when u see 1 of like 3 aoe slow cast targetless stuns incoming and have a quick attack like mug to get you out of stealth if you are in range and if you are not blinded and if opponent is not invul and if opponent is not under aegis. useless.

Cush.4063:

Thief is good at every game mode lol. PvE=damage. Every class is essentially viable for PvP although Rangers probably have it the worst. PvP=Thief is part of the meta. Its pretty much required to have one thief on a team in high end tPvP. Then WvW=roaming and scouting although I wouldn’t say scouting is a great role at all and you don’t get good loot in zergs. But let’s be honest, the only classes that don’t belong in all game types are mainly Else’s and Rangers although Else’s a getting a little bit of love this patch and might make it into the PvP meta but who knows.

wwwwwwwwwwwwow. u have no idea aboutthis game. are you talking gw1? i think youlogged into gw2 by accident :P

oscuro.9720:

The nerf isn’t just to us… Cannon Necros, power warriors, dps guards, zerk ranger, all of them are going to be majorly impacted. I think there are still going to be effective power builds, though condis are gonna be so much more op since you can build bunker Condi and be immortal. My thoughts are regen thief but that may not end up working out, I’ll have to see.

wow…such depth in your perception! (sarcasm)

necros take the same nerf even tho they have like 3x more hp than thief?

warriors even tho they have best condi rem/heal/hp/def + arguable offense in game?

DPS guards? even tho they r best def/heal +3000hp and 33% more burn dmg?

Ranger’s? pfft lol

Bazzoong.7145:

I am going to comment because the thief forum is in desperate need of “constructive posts”.

Basically you suggest a variation to a trickery build, your build stays “remotley viable” because of trickery and the utility it offers, this build can be used because of that utility.
However there is a good reason against useing it: Retaliation will destroy you, especially if you use Ricochet, retaliation has very high uptime and basically destroys any build relying on multiple fast hits, it is based on your opponents power and can not be mitigated by tougness you will hurt yourself more than your opponent.

if actually p;laying pvp with this build…have to run sigils that drop boons and food that steals hp as well as bountiful theft. it should be enough. easy rally chance with this buildtoo. hits a lot of animals giving so much extra hp.

really decent build. amazing in fractals. been pushing my version of this build for many months on forum. many laugh at it but they dontknow how actual usefull it is. great for tagging healing damage and more!

just take the 10 and put it in mug. so much better with sleight ofhand and drop thrill for long reach (VERY good skill very very VERY underated)

few other things….

Sigil of restoration
sigil of fire (bow)
Sigil of blood
Signet of Malice
Roll for init
blinding powder
(choice here)
Daggerstorm

Runes of perplexity or speed

full zerk(maybe valk weapons)

Rome.3192:

Lucem Ferre.9205:

hey,

Generally Speaking,

Shadow Arts: Resilience of Shadows – Stealth you apply reduces 50% incoming attack damage (does not work against condition damages)..

this is NEVER better than Shadow’s Rejuvenation .. it heals direct AND condition damage !

Trickery: Bewildering Ambush – Stealing applies 5 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds.

This should ALSO have CD on steal like Sleight of Hand .. else its very weak as grandmaster.

Resilience of Shadows isn’t supposed to be “better” than Shadow’s Rejuvenation. It has a completely different use, mostly team support (think downed cleave reduction – more so than what a guardian can give out via protection). Bewildering Ambush probably isn’t of much use if you’re in WvW and have Perplexity available to you. In PvP however (where we don’t get to have Perplexity runes, and for good reason), it’s a really strong trait, at least in theory.

he means its better under no circumstance. which means it sux. and i agree. the only time i see it work is when a zerg hits you with aoe….even when thathappens you are usually dead anyway.

attrail.8613:

Hmm I switched over to engi as well. I feel like its a trend im noticing

as an engineer…i totally destroy thieves. its actually quite laughable.

p/s = 2 dazes (skill 5) 1 pushback (skill 4) + confusion poison etc and burns on crits

healing turret (blows up for dmg and pushes back)
tool kit (pulls + 4s of block + 5 confusion stacks)
flame throw kit (aoe blind + aoe push back + aoe fire burn + aoe explosion + burns)
Elixir S (3 sec invulnerability + 4 secs of stealth)
Supply Crate ( 2s stun + burns + immobs + heals + regen and more)

this totally destroys thieves. shadow refuge? ok i blow up push back pull or air blast them out. works 75% of the time.

thieves are a joke against good players. thieves do take higher skill level to play well…and since ive mastered thief i find it easier to play other professions well as im using my intuition and reaction time ratherthan just dumb dumb skills like aegis and passives like warriors or AI like mesmers.

Interceptor.2653:

This is not a strong Grandmaster trait, but I think people around here are going a little overboard with their criticism of it.

The natural constituency of Assassins’s Equilibrium is going to be the S/D Thief who has 10 in Shadow Arts, 30 Acrobatics, and 30 <whatever> (probably Trickery). There are at least three really strong SA Adept traits that work in that slot, and this new GM trait turns CnD into a source of 1.3 seconds of Stability on a move that you’re already using to damage an enemy while either blinding them or removing conditions from yourself.

+1 here. i agree.

Assassins Equilibrium is near impossible to use unless u see a 2 sec casting time coming AND are right next to target AND have not already channeled a different skill AND the skill being used is actually a stun/push etc. this is so high a skill cap trait that only a computers AI character could make use of it.

babazhook.6805:

>>A lot of new builds will show up that people will have no clue about how to deal with, stealth support thief inc, FINALLY. Condi thieves will be insanely strong, start thinking about the changes to stuff like the Balthazar Runes

Indeed. I can forsee myself taking bewildering ambush along with this Runeset and a sigil of hydromancy in each off hand.

Use the withdraw heal to lay down an aoe fire for 3 seconds + duration boosts by rolling into a group with the heal then swap to your other weapon set for the chill.
Use bewildering ambush for the confusion.

I think we are going to see a lot more burning and a lot more chills.

A lot of classes will be doing something similar so there is going to be a lot of moaning about this until people adapt.

balthazar runes are garbage on thieves.
hydromancy is also bad/risky on thieves.
condition thief will be still the same exact thing as it was before. condi=bleed :/
bewildering ambush is worse choice than sleight of hand (rather interrupt a 6k heal)

so much is off in what you suggest. i thinkthe traits have potential but just not made to work appropriately. the crit dmg heal should be at 10% atleast…for example.

Karolis.4261:

Travlane.5948:

p/p w/ SB is great in FoTM

10/30/0/0/30

ricochet
RFI
blinding powder
Daggerstorm
shadow refuge
Signet of malice

proc HP steals galore

doing 8k-15k unloads + thousands of HP heal + AOE dmg + hp steals + ranged and much much more.

only the cliffside boss is hard with p/p bc of reflection ability. other than that its great. especially at the molten bosses.

s/p is ok too but i find it a little more risky bc it puts you in harms way for the same damage and less healing and less chance at rally if u need it. range is always better in fractals.

Oh hey now… S/P does way more damage then p/p in aoe and single target fights. Pistol whip is 10-15 % stronger then unload (including pistol mastery on p/p)+and you cant even compare sword auto attack and pistol auto attack. + Sword cleaves by default.

i feel you onthat….but unload + ricochet + SOM and life steals make them even. i get about 30% up to 50% more dmg on unload from ricochet alone AND they dont have to be close together…AND im not in harms way….

that extra 10-15% dmg comes at a Very high risk. and cant heal as well as ricochet+unload …ontop of that ricochet can make the dmg equal on fights over 1v1.

yeah but 1k toughness will happen several times. 4 secs of no direct dmg every 60 secs is a maybe shot at dmg reduction. could only be one person and stop 1hit. if ur stunned ur def gonna get hit almost.

ive been merging over to engineer class. thief is so useless in every mode of gw2. only viability is in wvw roaming. and that doesnt help anyone really. killing a player 1v1 while roaming gives no points or strategic advantage. spvp/tpvp thieves can only do 2v1s and gang up on people which also hurts their team bc they usually end up clumping together rather than spreading out to cap and focus on poitns/winning.

p/p w/ SB is great in FoTM

10/30/0/0/30

ricochet
RFI
blinding powder
Daggerstorm
shadow refuge
Signet of malice

proc HP steals galore

doing 8k-15k unloads + thousands of HP heal + AOE dmg + hp steals + ranged and much much more.

only the cliffside boss is hard with p/p bc of reflection ability. other than that its great. especially at the molten bosses.

s/p is ok too but i find it a little more risky bc it puts you in harms way for the same damage and less healing and less chance at rally if u need it. range is always better in fractals.

it might be in a p/p with SB build. only way i see it.

scavenger runes
ricochet…

ETC

NinjaEd.3946:

I wish it was a healing value that scaled off healing power, not 5%. 5% is not much even if you cleaved 5 players with PW with every single hit. It is off crits only, and rather low in effect. Should be 15% with single target skills and 10% with cleaving skills, that way aoe doesn’t get called op. Remember, this trait has to stand up against executioner and hidden killer, if its going to remove a chunk of dps it should add a chunk of healing.

exactly this. i have been saying this.

5000 backstab gives 1000 extra dmg with executioner and 250 hp with invig prec.

its obvious which to take.

also….

even auto attacks at 2000 each would give 400 dmg extra each hit on exeuctioner or only 100 hp heal on invig prec. it def needsto be at 10% minimum

scabrous.7835:

Numbers based on my spec.
Sample backstab on 0/30/30/10/0 against 2300 armour target with foods deals 7412 damage (excluding might and trait bonuses that are based on the amount of ini or hp of attacker/ foe). After ferocity nerf, the very same backstab will hit for merely 6349. It’s almost 15% nerf on burst.
I am aware that overall DPS nerf might be equal to that 8-10% that has been mentioned, however dealing with cond specs will be impossible from WvW perspective. After April 15 it will be either Perplexity P/D or cheesing on 10/0/30/0/30 D/P.
How does it promote build variety?

Also, SA still won’t be viable in tPvP and apparently no Last Refuge fix (I hope that I am wrong on this one).

they wont fix last refuge. they are laughing at us behind closed doors …saying:

“bwhahahahha…..last refuge is our chance to make sure they dont get away when we getthem that low….after all we deserve that kill …..this allows us that chance”

i think we are going to see less and less builds. we have never ….ever…ever had diversity increase since day 1. other classes have had new builds bc of new changes. any build we have ever had….was able to play on day 1.

McFribble.2349:

Travlane.5948:

McFribble.2349:

wolfpaq.7354:

Every class is getting new traits. That is part of the trait preview. Where the hell are our NON TRAIT balance changes? Sorry, but our only mentioned balance change being a nerf to shortbow is preposterous.

Read the Warrior section and then complain. They literally had nothing for us. And you think thieves got jacked with terrible traits, lol. Most of the Warrior ones that look like they COULD be good aren’t even in the right trait line…

100% Crit chance on Burst skill…conveniently NOT in the trait line all about burst skills, lol.

1k toughness is beastlytho.

Again, may look good at first, but then you really have to look at how much an extra 1k toughness is actually reducing (and for 4 seconds), compared to having 4 seconds of pure damage immunity that is already in the same Grandmaster trait line. You don’t get to have both.

Clearly the 4 seconds of free Endure Pain is the better option, since not all classes actually HAVE a stun (or easily on hand for that matter).

4 secs of endure pain on a 90 sec timer would never outweight 1k toughness. my character doesnt evne have 1k toughness to start with. not even really close

blinds isthe only thing we have. sometimes stealth too. if uthinku are going to stomp a character in 4v4 or higher….forget it. unless u wanna waste your SS (ace in the hole)

Tremain.4623:

We weren’t going to get a 30% more damage to people under 50% trait, we weren’t going to get a 100% crit and 20% more crit damage coming out of stealth trait. Hidden killer and executioner were not getting replaced on their respective builds, instead we got a GM trait that is useful in a completely different situation than those other two traits. That is PERFECT, it is EXACTLY what the new traits should be like. Sorry you don’t get to replace hidden killer on your backstab build, and you don’t get to replace executioner in your dps build, but both of them were mostly useless in a zerg situation.

they shoudl be different. not crap. these are crap.

for instance….

for somebody to want to take a trait that heals over executioner….. (which is an amazing trait) youwould haveto up the heal percentage from 5% to 10%…..outside of that it has no real comparison of effectiveness. executioner turns a 5k heartseeker into 6k. thats 1k damage for that 1 hit. thats an extra 500 damage on auto attacks …..each hit. so to take invigoration precision for 125 hp heals every 2nd auto attack hit on average? to heal 250 on a 5k hit (which would be 6k normally with executioner)……. NO THANKS.

its not about replacing…u have atleast that part correct. but it has to be comparable in effectiveness on what it does.

1000 extra dmg on a 5k backstab
———————-or————————————
250 hp heal on that 5k backstab

As it is…. a thieves surivability relies mostly on downing an enemy (away from others) the extra dmg will help achieve that.

Can also look at SP or SR same way.
350 hp per sec GUARANTEED or 50% less dmg while you cant attack in stealth…IF you get hit. average stealth is 4 secs so basically you get 1400 hp per stealth if u stick itout…. most of use dodge roll once in stealth or aoe blind.

95% of the time people will choose the same one.

Lets look at a combo CND BS AA AA HS HS (cloak/dagger backstab auto auto HS HS) lets call the combos 4500 dmg 5500 dmg 2500 2500 4000 4000.

now lets add in both traits to see which one gives more benefit. lets say the last 4 hits are the 50% mark and every 2nd hit is a crit ….just keep the numbers the same so its even.

executioner would give + 2600 damage
invig prec would give + 600 hp

so 2600 extra dmg in 5 secs or 600hp heal in same 5 secs? obvious right?

Dakota.4591:

Revealed Training – Depends on how quickly the 200 power is applied. If it’s applied to the hit that breaks the stealth (backstab or whatnot), very nice. If it’s applied after the stealth is fully broken and not to the initial hit… much more meh. Still, will be useful in wvw if it applies to the revealed caused by antistealth traps.

Invigorating Precision – Nice idea, but nobody will ever use this over Executioner.

Resilience of Shadows – Good for wvw permastealth thieves when people are trying to AE them down, I suppose. Not worth a 30-point trait for.

Assassin’s Equilibrium – Whoever came up with this one needs to be shot in their god kitten face. Thieves already have the least amount of stability of any class in the game, and when we finally get some more, we still can’t control when it goes off. See that stun or knockdown attack incoming? Awesome, all you have to do is fire off stealth, get close enough to hit them (assuming that you already didn’t have to get close enough to CnD), and hope that you timed it right that the attack doesn’t land after a paltry one second. Assuming that it didn’t already land when you were trying to get it to fire.
I suppose that this trait has one saving grace, in that there’s still no reason to dump the full 30 in Acrobatics since all the GM traits suck.

Seriously. In his god kitten face.

Bewildering Ambush – Not bad, but is it worth dropping Slight of Hand for? Probably not.

tl;dr version – None of the traits are really worth using. Either they’re good, but not as good as the old GM traits, or they’re abysmally bad in a line with other abysmally bad GM traits. Also, in his god kitten face.

i think this kinda sums it up. well said. i cant disagree with anything.

i WILL suggest that ANET moves the 5% on precision heals to 8%. % wont be enough to matter. we are mostly single target attackers