Guild Wars 2

so it seems like zerk and carrion/rampagers is the most common sets to use.

im gonna make 2 ascended sets…. trying to figure outwhich ill use most.

Pwent.2639:

Lol thief is so much easier to play than most other classes excluding war and guard.

I use a mix of rabid and carrion armor most of the time.

other fun high skill cap classes for wvw are ranger (not as underpowered in roaming as most people think), mesmer (don’t go condi pu its not so fun), and ele.

def not true.

ranger is all about build…. only hard part is timing pet attacks with yours.
mesmer is 75% dmg from AI
Necro is about the right buildand skill rotation as most are self guiding or AOE

thief is hard to play well. if ur not good at thief you look like a fish out of water flopping around and getting nothing done.

engineer takes alot of skill to which is why im going to use it as my new 2ndary.

engineer should never lose to thief. nade/turret will always own.,., if played right

I like engineer. I am normally a thief. i find that engineer is the only other class that does well only if u play him well. i played warrior once in spvp my first try ever and nailed it. warrior is OP and a joke so im doing engi instead.

do i want rampagers gear first? or zerk?> or what?

i am interesting in WVW and SPVP/TPVP

deepwinter.9015:

Typical of most gamers, who fail to see how their suggestions are one-dimensional, this would end up causing a ripple affect that would affect (nerf) multiple classes. Aegis duration would have to be nerfed significantly (1-5 sec duration) to balance this, and that would just upset everybody.

good point. prolly much less than 5 sec. 2-3 secs max

MrForz.1953:

Alright so stale jokes aside. Yes, they’re very weak and they’re counterbalanced by a poorly designed stealth which gets them back on balance in PvP and nowhere near that level in PvE. It has the effects of pigeonholing them into very few builds.

what he said.

one thing tho…. stealth is very bad in PVP…try not to use.

Corpse Flakes.5369:

Karolis.4261:

Thief OP plz nurf.

Pls nerf OP 13.5k hp is too much.

10.8k actually.

Baladir.2736:

Travlane.5948:

wouldnt use this to call something OP. many of these “pros” are not as good as you think. you seem them being talked about and on this platform bc they use twitch etc. i have won 1v1 tournements and you havent heard my name. points is ur not a nub. ur above average ….. cant use that to test a build.

i did an experiment the other day…. i loggedon warrior for the first time ever. had a build i borrowed from online…high armor high hp high toughness high attack dps (full zerk) high mobility high condi cleans and super high healing (uncomparable).

i took 2ndin points, only 20 behind 1st (then again i didnt even cap a node once…if i had i wouldhave crushed the competition)….. i took highest kills….best objective defender…best objective assaulter. basically the best in offense and defense categories with highest number of kills.

FIRST….TIME….PLAYING. i literawlly have had 0 games on warrior….no lvled up warrior. theres basically no way i played warrior. as i proved and did super well. now thats called NUB doing well.

thief isnt op…. used to beback in 2012.

omg I like what you did there. So I have to ask if you enjoyed the warrior and will you play him again? I have to ask. I’ve been playing an ele since beta1 and just started a thief, level 28 now. I am having such a fun time playing this class I can’t believe it.

Sorry for the ninja of the thread guys. Nothing else to see here. Move along.

it depends. i like playing thief bc its fun and challenging bc the reason i win is bc i played very well…not bc i had a crutch. even if i go d/d signet build and backstab a player for 20k…. ill still die alot. there is equal risk to power on thief. however on warrior …. as i stated on another thread…i had never played or logged on onebefore. i did very well as the class can do everything well all at the same time which gave me such high score and highest kills. warrior is fun if ur just in the “hulk smash” mentality but as far as being creative and having to use your brain to respond to other players….a thief is much more fun. so if u wanna be effective at any team play…go warrior. if u wannd have fun and be yourself…go thief or engineer.

Introp.8465:

Travlane.5948:

Tree.3916:

Travlane.5948:

the OP doenst know the difference between thief dmg and GROUP dmg.

Oh, so I guess the thief was the only one with 25 stacks of might and 100% crit? Party buffs only go to the thief… checks out!

that said…warrior can do as much or more with a couple of skills like 100b or eviscerate.

nice story…not

Let’s see your video of your warrior doing 47k evis or 100b… besides Warriors are so 2013.

i dont play warrior. i play thief. i have tested EVISCERATE, 100b, and BACKSTAB all in wvw under same conditions.

full zerk
25 stacks might
25 stacks vulnerability
25 stacks bloodlust

and they were both the same dmg. only REAL difference is that warrior had higher HP/toughness/defense/armor and more attacks per X time.

yes a warrior can do this but i really dont do COE anymore as i have every legendary and dont need the money.

i would like to see this in a experimental set up. that means no group buffs and no group debuffs. its so unrealistic and even with group help …its PVE dungeon which are very easy. even COF is harder than COE. that build hes running cannot go anywhere other than easy nub areas.

as a matter of fact i could go get a naked engineer and beat that thief in 1v1…thats how fragile he is.

So how on earth have you tested warrior dmg in wvw, if you yell in other thread that you have played ONLY 1 game of warrior in spvp? you are full of kittens in every thread you are in, arguing about anything.
your end point is – warrior so op, needs nerf. thiefs so up(and takes alot of skill to play, lol), needs huge buff
your every argument are based on nothing, you always bring random made up numbers and made up facts into it thinking that people will believe your word

True example of internet knight

btw travlone, if you are implying that you have masters as in education, since when you can obtain it at age of teenager ( or younger). You must be true genius then, as we see in threads

masters in psychology actually. not that that matters and im basically 30. 2 weeks away. there is nothing in life you will ever outshine me at. i can tell by your comments on your last thread. whole thread was basically saying 1 thing…u another and even when u had proof….a 0 xperience warrior doing VERY well…. it wasnt proof…just was absolutely nothing. you are a “nana nana boo boo i am rubber you are glue” debater. gluck ill be ignoring you til you come correct lil boy. show your facebook so we can laugh.

Delay.6908:

If we are talking PvE and highest DPS you have to assume max buffs for everyone since.. thats how it is in organized PvE parties where these builds shine, and im like 90% sure that if all buffs are met the thief will out DPS the warrior quite easily due to higher damage rotations that occur more frequently. You cant compare thief and warrior with no outside buffs since everyone knows the warrior wins due to his crazy self buffing power, but in an organized group where everyone si sharing buffs the warrior loses that advantage and the thief pulls ahead.

if the enemy isnt doing dmg and the thief has to heal up/invis/dodge/evade yes true.

also if u consider community buffs…the Thief isnt OP….

you say the warrior can do more dmg due to buffs….true.

so who does more dmg? thief or warrior? its warrior saying “well dont buff me i already have the buffs” and the thief saying " well buff me so i can do more dmg since i cant by myself" and the warrior saying “well HE is not doing more dmg if HE cant get the buffs HIMSELF…. i win”

get it?>

Solori.6025:

Travlane.5948:

Tree.3916:

Travlane.5948:

the OP doenst know the difference between thief dmg and GROUP dmg.

Oh, so I guess the thief was the only one with 25 stacks of might and 100% crit? Party buffs only go to the thief… checks out!

that said…warrior can do as much or more with a couple of skills like 100b or eviscerate.

nice story…not

Let’s see your video of your warrior doing 47k evis or 100b… besides Warriors are so 2013.

i dont play warrior. i play thief. i have tested EVISCERATE, 100b, and BACKSTAB all in wvw under same conditions.

full zerk
25 stacks might
25 stacks vulnerability
25 stacks bloodlust

and they were both the same dmg. only REAL difference is that warrior had higher HP/toughness/defense/armor and more attacks per X time.

yes a warrior can do this but i really dont do COE anymore as i have every legendary and dont need the money.

i would like to see this in a experimental set up. that means no group buffs and no group debuffs. its so unrealistic and even with group help …its PVE dungeon which are very easy. even COF is harder than COE. that build hes running cannot go anywhere other than easy nub areas.

as a matter of fact i could go get a naked engineer and beat that thief in 1v1…thats how fragile he is.

How do you extensibvely test in WvW and PvE when you only have a lvl 2?

By your words….

Unless you have been lying to everyone…

Travlane.5948:

bobomb.5209:

Level 2 anything just means that you only play PvP honestly.
I have a level 2 Elementalist

if i have a lvl 13 pvp account (is pvp character or account based?) either way it will prove.

lvl 2 warrior. no rank spvp.

all other characters lvl 80 (guard engineer THIEF necro) and no rank or 13 rank spvp.

i mean… pfft right? how does that say i dont play warrior? i have never logged onto a warrior until that experient.

Also, How do you test something…when you dont know what you are actually doing on it…since you have ZERO experience

Travlane.5948:

i have NEVER played warrior before. i did well. TOP kills. 2nd score. did well. top defenderand top assaulter. bottom line if u play a class you have never even logged onto before…. itllshow how bad you are too. btw i got all my points WITHOUT CAPPING so yeah. try again?

Explain how you were able to test so extensively in either thread if you have never had a warrior to 80 and never played it…

According to you…

my brother is main warrior only. we group alot. we compare dmg alot. stats alot. builds alot. like a brotherly rivalry. besides…not like i cant read or watch videos online

Tree.3916:

You seem to think you’re proving some kind of point, but you’re not. All buffs being equal, a Thief has greater damage potential over time than a Warrior in pve using meta builds. This is undeniable: they have superior weapon coefficients/time and superior base damage modifiers. If you compare coefficients of attack skills over time and base damage modifiers there really isn’t any debate whatsoever, unless you intentionally misrepresent that.

you said i dont know what DPS is. so yes there is a point proved …DUH….

and 2…. i will agree with you on the fact about thief over time dmg being greater than warrior in PVE under 1 condition only…. the target is a joke. if the target is a joke and doesntreally do much dmg or often or aoe or w.e. (fractals would be a better example….no way thief does more dmg dodging hiding, evading using SB etc).
but when you are a real enemy…one that u cant solo (like the one in the video) then the warrior is much more dmging over time. they dont have to run…they dont/cant invis…and they dont really pres any evades…they just heal and smash. so their dmg is higher normally …plus they are keeping the dmg constant….not backing off half the time…. its obvious.

TLDR

easy enemies – you right
hard enemies – Im right

NinjaEd.3946:

I don’t see 4 seconds being game breaking over 3 seconds, and I main thief for pvp play.

It’s a strange transition, because mental timers get skewed but it’s nothing impossible to adjust to.

mental part is the worst for me after playing wvw too long lol!

that aside tho…thieves are crippled in SPVP by the cap so they are generally weaker. why make them even weaker in spvp? makes no sense if ut hink about it.

hopefully gonna get it back down to 3sec gain in spvp. its wellneeded.

DPS is calculated…

X= Total cumulative damage
S= Total Time, in seconds, of which the cumulative damage was dealt

X/S = DPS

still dont think i know how? btw you are welcome for the 5th grade equation that u seem to lack TREE

Tree.3916:

mPascoal.4258:

Did you guys got the idea right here? This is a troll topic, the OP doesn’t even came here anymore after opening this. Also this is in a PvE envirement, builds are different from PvE to WvW to sPvP, so for all you thinking that he actually cares about this (the OP), who cares wich does more damage at PvE? Finishing a dgn faster? Thats what is it OP about this, finishing a dgn faster 1 or 2 mins. LOL

Pretending to be above PvE is top lel. People do care about top PvE dps, might surprise you.

Travlane doesn’t understand math and doesn’t understand how dps is calculated.

yyyyyyyyyet im the one explaining it and have a masters..and yet….. nobody could say i was wrong. bc they obv dont play thief if they think thief dmg is on average higher than warrior dmg on average (time average not hit average)

Damage over Time will be higher on warrior. they need not take breaks or great space or set up attacks. they just keep pressing forward to target in PVE and attack.

if you go to low lvl zones and count the 1 and 2 hit kills…. well this is an entirely different conversation. if we also count enemies that dont really hit you like the one in the video that has 1 attack you ahve to dodge…then yeah its a kitten ed close battle.

but….GENERALLY….thief is dodging…creating gaps….healing up….going stealth…running behind…setting up etc….then rinse and repeating. his spike hits are high…..but his sustained dmg over time….not so good due to the acrobatics his class uses for survival and deadly strikes

Redscope.6215:

Travlane.5948:

Interceptor.2653:

Warriors are too good, but not because of anything you proved in an experiment with some average-ish D/P backstabber. A competent P/D condition Thief would have beaten you up and taken your lunch money. That fight either ends with the Warrior 1) dying, or 2) running away.

They are scaling back Healing Signet some. That will help.

not to play “point-counterpoint” with you but the build literally had half a dozen ways of dropping conditions. some thru utility. somethru adrenaline. some thru 2 traits. and all thru lyssa runes. p/d wouldntohave done much. need 7 stacks of bleed justto get inthe positive.

Not to play “point-counterpoint” with you, but if you had played a zerker spike build war against a zerker spike build thief, you would have lost every single time. Hands down, no contest, resulting in throwing your mouse and keyboard through your monitor.

What you’ve proven is that bunker > zerker. Good job. This is WAI according to Anet devs from day one.

Travlane.5948:

i wanna see somebody else join theif…..play full zerk…. show that they have 0 experience in thief …… and then score in the top kills top defense top offensive ranks in spvp on first try.

try ranger. try engineer. 0 experience. that means no lvl 80s. and 0 tries in spvp .

I stand corrected…you actually think full zerk is the way to play?

Classic case of L2P.

/thread

so running full zerk plus 30 in crit dmg line and 30 in healing line isnt zerk? well its mostly zerk. ssooooo yeah. idk what the others were player but i did pretty much full zerk. had to put somein healing for condi removal and HS….. but i guess 90% zerk isnt zerk. soi should say MOSTLY 90% zerk next time. ok :P now i got it.

Solori.6025:

MiLkZz.4789:

Travlane.5948:

point was i led everything on my first try ever. fffffffffffpsh! lol like to see somebody else do this with 0 trieson thief full zerk and never logged on thief. have to proof like i didtho

The thiefs I qualify as good players never had any troubles against warriors. A pp condi spam thief can kite a warrior for a 100 years. A sd thief can steal his stability and evade into oblivion and a dp pomps out so much blind that warrior wont see his girlfriend again ever.

We all know warrior has a low skillcap to start playing with, congratz on proving that. But to be able to beat the best players out there, warriors lack depth. Their skills have such obvious animations that you hate yourself for failing to dodge them sometimes. I dodged a hammer warriors skills for 10min straight before he stopped fighting me and ran away. I didn’t attack back because I was laughing to much.

Warrior is a strong pick and a nub stomper, people who don’t really know how to play and only know their own class will get roflstomped by a warrior. But people who know how to bait out stability, skill interrupt and all the animations will take a warrior apart.

Point is that it is easy to play a warrior decently and perform well. But if you want to compete with the best, you either have to be a really really strong player on a warrior or you simply can’t. The warrior is just lackluster on high skill play.

I want to make 1 end remark and that is that warriors can completely shut down necros. Doing this makes them incredibly vulnerable to thiefs. But still this shouldn’t be possible. Hambow warriors with cleansing ire can remove 6condis/7s, that is to much. Adding an ICD of 7s to cleansing ire so 3condis/7s get removed would require clever play from the warrior to beat a necro.

But this is the only nerf needed for the warrior imo.

I agree with you Milkz

Also, when youtube wants to be cooperative.

I have a vid of my mesmer getting top score in an spvp game.
and my MM necro getting top score in an spvp game.

Ill grab one for the ele and engi when the other two are done.

Spvp, it is really easy to top charts when your team is good and you tag.

i had top kills too. and ZERO caps. i only looked for fights to show that one aspect…..and luckily got more. either way i have had never been on warrior. those glory points are soley the first ones ive earned on warrior as you saw. to NEVER play a class then do that well is insane. warrior is set up for nubs and bad players to do well. even high end players who are experienced on warrior can afford many mistakes. thieves cant afford any. maybe 1 if on carrion armor.

Turin.5243:

Travlane.5948:

i did an experiment the other day…. i loggedon warrior for the first time ever. had a build i borrowed from online…high armor high hp high toughness high attack dps (full zerk) high mobility high condi cleans and super high healing (uncomparable).

FIRST….TIME….PLAYING. i literawlly have had 0 games on warrior….no lvled up warrior. theres basically no way i played warrior. as i proved and did super well. now thats called NUB doing well.

Wow Travlane, this is a great build, i just tried it myself in sPvP and pwned noobs face! I even think i killed Serene in one of the matches. I linked the build below for all curious warriors who want to rise to the top.

yeah THAT one is pretty good too. still 0 0 30 10 30 warrior is more OP lol

Sanduskel.1850:

Travlane.5948:

Sanduskel.1850:

a thief whining about warriors. now i’ve seen everything. I play a thief, and I’ve never had an issue with warriors. I think this is a l2p issue.

what im complaining about is the no risk vs reward scenario. thieves have a high risk to run zerk. warriors have none. they can be one of the best rankings in EVERY category all in the same build. now you cant get any class half as good in that sense. hence why most are warriors …..

if they cut the mobility down…. and condi removal down to below thieves’ as that should be their weakness as anet stated….i think warriors would be in a good place.

I don’t think the ability to burst then pop right back I to stealth is a high risk. It s a high reward though.

3-4 seconds is a long time. 2-3 seconds of immob = death for a thief. thats how fragile we are. its 4-5 secs if u are a Carrion thief. high risk. crap condi removal…. crap hp…crap toughness…crap armor…. no blocks/invuln/aegis and stability and protection….anything defensive….or removes stuff like conditison…we suck at. its a high risk profession.

point was i led everything on my first try ever. fffffffffffpsh! lol like to see somebody else do this with 0 trieson thief full zerk and never logged on thief. have to proof like i didtho

mPascoal.4258:

Did you guys got the idea right here? This is a troll topic, the OP doesn’t even came here anymore after opening this. Also this is in a PvE envirement, builds are different from PvE to WvW to sPvP, so for all you thinking that he actually cares about this (the OP), who cares wich does more damage at PvE? Finishing a dgn faster? Thats what is it OP about this, finishing a dgn faster 1 or 2 mins. LOL

no they actually thing they are right. go to the youtube page. its hillarious. they wont even accept that its like 50% dmg giving by the group buffs :P

Heimdallr.7021:

coglin.1867:

Heimdallr.7021:

The OP didn’t prove anything.
I agree though that the warrior need to be toned downin some way, however it is not OP as many people claim it to be.

coglin.1867:

Actually it is. I am going to guess you have not leveled all professions to 80 so you do not even have a clue how OP it is or isn’t, yet you will make such statements.

I have 5 classes to 80, I don’t need to level every class to 80 to give my opinion on class balance, or i have to take for granted that anyone who claims warrior is OP has leveled every class to 80?

coglin.1867:

And yes, he did prove something. Unlike people who make blind claims based on what they read here or what someone afflicts against them in game, he at least picked it up and tried it for himself. You on the other hand are claiming “it is not OP” and offering absolutely no evidence, facts, or any argument what so ever to support your perspective.

The OP on the other hand never made any claims in the original post, he simply listed how easy or difficult he found certain aspects of his experiences.

Learn to read, I didn’t say that, what I did say is that warrior is not as OP as many people are saying.
Then again, the video posted by the OP doesn’t prove a think, the fact that he played a couple of matches in hotjoin taking a high score can’t be taken as a proof of that.

Yesterday i entered a couple a tournaments with my ranger and i scored 1st in both games, do you see me claiming ranger is OP?

So tell me, what exactly did he prove?

i have NEVER played warrior before. i did well. TOP kills. 2nd score. did well. top defenderand top assaulter. bottom line if u play a class you have never even logged onto before…. itllshow how bad you are too. btw i got all my points WITHOUT CAPPING so yeah. try again?

Tree.3916:

Travlane.5948:

nuff said here. warrior = stronger in every aspect

Except single target DPS.

arguable actually on a few variables.

1) location
2) type of target
3) pve
4) wvw
5) spvp/tpvp
6) large groups
5) small groups.

if you look at in on paper i give the slight edge to thief on SINGLE target tdps but even so warrior is close on paper and with smae skills does multiple targets.

if youlook at it in practicality then it goes to warrior having highest DPS. dont forget dps is damager per second. not highest average strike. warrior doesnt have to set up or anything they just full on blast that dmg out. thief has to back up…heal…hide….stealth again then run around for a backstab….. see the difference? all the time a thief …is acting like a thief the warrior is just looking to smash like hulk bc his defense is all passive

Shinobi.3240:

Arkantos.7460:

very interesting notes,
but plz explain burning on autoattack, never seen this
also my respect for going separating stealth and give a favourable opinion to stealthless thiefs

I was away from the game for a while (6 weeks in Thailand .. jihaa) so i don´t know if they are still up to date:

There are more i guess .. but not sure …

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Precision
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dhuumfire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder

Another Change to Thief i would like to see .. if a stealth attack is blocked you get revealed.

Best regards!

they wont reward any class that can sit still…press blind, block, invuln, aegis, etc and give thief revealed. that is a horrible reward for horrible play. so the best thing to do against a thief is afk til thye attack after you hit aegis? cmon thats stupid. if ur that bad then i understand. but if u cant dodge roll after 2.5 secs then idk what to tell u. l2p issue there.

DavyMcB.1603:

Klocknov.8219:

You know, Moa isn’t an I win button, I have gotten away many times as one. Moa is more of a your an annoying theif and I am tired of you popping stealth every 3s seconds so I am going to make you actually fight.

+1

Especially when they “think” they are so good for constantly stealthing amidst the group of enemies and be like “muahahahahhaha nobody can catch me”

every 4-7 secs. preferablly i like opponents going into stealth. easy to bunker dodge on 2.5 secs andhes screwed. if u think its a problem ur a bad player. this is spvp i talking about.

did they make this MOA skill 5 shorten in spvp or something? i used to remember it doing like 2x longer distance way back.

its super suprising to notsee engi in there.engineers are possibly 1 of top 2or 3.

and s/p is a joke :P lol seriously. once they pop devourer venom….there goes their chance if they missed it.

s/d thief too? eh not anymore since Shadow Return nerf….its really beat back alot and too risky to play.

id say p/d thief is the hardest to play against 1v1 when rightly built.

everyone i have ever dueled says id rather face d/p all day than my p/d build. d/p is pretty easy if u knowhow to CC :P

vrilek.4038:

Azawrath.7304:

vrilek.4038:

10/30/30/0/0 build thief has no access to vigor. Your point of view is WvWvW i presume. Someday you will learn that d/p thief is the most difficult class to master in this game on pvp level. Thief is very weak against condies compare to other classes. Everything you said is so wrong … And PU mesmer which is banned on most 1v1 server? Where did you come from buddy?

I mistyped and i meant to say that not all thieves run 10/30/30/0/0 which means that they can have access to vigor.

Yes I’m talking about WvW.

Can’t tell if you are trolling but D/P thief is one of the easier builds in game. In any game mode in GW2. Period.

You are right, thieves are weak to conditions. Never said they weren’t. I just said that thieves have stealth as a migration to avoid getting attacked or conditions in the first place.

I originally came from Yaks Bend and then transferred to HoD. When PU mesmer first came out I was having a hard time, but I learned how they worked and used their clones against them. What makes thieves so strong is we have all the time in the world and when you realized that you will be a way better thief. I’m still working on it myself.

Maybe in dueling PU mesmers are OP because it is frowned upon to wait in stealth which is why I really don’t duel on my thief.

Also I have thought that we could be in different tiers where average skill is different, maybe we are just facing different difficulties of players which is the reason why our views are conflicting.

Dude im not trolling. If you are thinking WvW is pvp we are losing time seriously. Come try it you will realize thief is soo bottom tier unless you are reallllly pro d/p thief player..

this is VERY true. stealth in PVP is bad. very bad. 4 sec revealed is also VERY bad. now that said let me also point out that thieves have to go condi andbunker. if they go direct dmg they are at the mercy of other classes.

put it this way 0 0 30 10 30….full zerk warrior….23k hp….high toughness…high hp high armor… high healing high condi cleanse high dmg and eveyrthing else too.

10 30 30 0 0 thief full zerk = medicore healing…..decently high dmg but inconsistent….10.8k hp (this alone says we should do double dmg over warriors persay in a math perspective) medicore condi cleanse (1 trait basically) low toughness low armor .

but the REAL bias is this…… 66% crit dmg cap. who does thishurt more on these builds? obv the thief is VERY reliant on dmg….. the warrior has good defense healing and condi cleanse so a lil hit wont affecth im overall very much…… this crushes thethief tho bc he cant just go bonkers and drop 3-4 attacks in a row and get a guy to 25%.

SPVP is biased against thief bcof the nerfs and crit dmg cap. thief is low tier spvp player by far.

Sanduskel.1850:

a thief whining about warriors. now i’ve seen everything. I play a thief, and I’ve never had an issue with warriors. I think this is a l2p issue.

what im complaining about is the no risk vs reward scenario. thieves have a high risk to run zerk. warriors have none. they can be one of the best rankings in EVERY category all in the same build. now you cant get any class half as good in that sense. hence why most are warriors …..

if they cut the mobility down…. and condi removal down to below thieves’ as that should be their weakness as anet stated….i think warriors would be in a good place.

Solori.6025:

Travlane.5948:

i wanna see somebody else join theif…..play full zerk…. show that they have 0 experience in thief …… and then score in the top kills top defense top offensive ranks in spvp on first try.

try ranger. try engineer. 0 experience. that means no lvl 80s. and 0 tries in spvp .

This is the problem with this experiment.

You arent showing that the class is great in the hands of a good player.

You are showing that its easy to pick up for new players.

I could go into a spvp game on my mesmer and do fine ( in fact this warrior crap people keep crying about is funny to me because they cant stand toe to toe with me in a 1v1 scenerio). But I main mesmer.
I can go into spvp on my guardian and do just fine, but I played guardian
I can do this for every profession, because I have played every profession.

I know what to use to tag the most people.
I know how to follow the zerg.

This experiment would hold much much more weight ( because you are trying to prove the Overpoweredness of warrior in pvp) if you did a couple of tournament games.
And had the same results.

Again.
Spvp, following a zerg, tagging enemies.

Anyone can do that.
If you want I can make a vid of my thief doing exactly that, following the zerg and tagging.

My point.
If you want to prove how OP the warrior is.
Do tournament’s
Record a couple of tournament matches ( they have solo que’s)
Post the results of said tournament match’s

ReesesPBC.4603:

ReesesPBC.4603:

Wow this went way overboard. Really it seems like extreme bias or just denial now. I’ve only been WvW’ing recently but I used to Tpvp when every warrior ran the usual Bullrush mode and played a carry. Now they are just mobile bunkers, from more recent Tpvp play. I’ve only been hotjoining but after doing both modes in sPvP again, after a long hiatus into PVE, you can see the obvious need for toning down. The sheer amount of hambow hero’s makes sPvP annoying. Even applying poison doesn’t help as much and is sad that it is a necessity along with boon stripping to get most hambow/lyssa/dodging warriors to go down.

There probably isn’t anyway to sway Introp to drop his bias. We can only suggest that he uses a class he’s never used before, like mesmer, and see how his success rate is in PVP. But I fear he’ll just make the usual unfounded comments that the class is easy and warriors have a harder time.

I main a warrior, have played it since launch, have 3k hours on it. I agree that we need some adjustments and some skills need to be toned down a bit. What worries me and a lot of other warriors (and why I think many are so adamant about it not being OP) is that Anet will take the same approach it did with the Eles when Eles were at the top of the PvP food chain. Is warrior too strong at the moment? Yes Is it grossly OP? No It won’t take much to bring us back in line with the rest of the classes.

They are reverting the Ele changes.
Just like they had to do with some mesmer changes to traits.

spvp…owning it on first try…says enough. 2/5 players play wawrrior on high end. check the rankings/results.

Zero Day.2594:

Dagins.5163:

Golden rule of MMOs says:
,,If you want a trap to be any useful, you must plant them directly on top of your enemy."

…

RF Online Assassin class, basically a trapper class, breaks that rule…. X.x I wish there were traps like those in this game…. 1-2 trap hits = dead squishy, 2-3 = dead medium, 3-4 = dead heavy, able to lay 15 at a time…. With them you could kill anyone or anything, without them you couldn’t do anything.
Hold choke points, troll spawns, troll entrances… Countless uses…
And the best thing is you didn’t have to place on top of anyone, you waited for them to walk into your traps (provided you set them at a choke point or at entrance…. or baited them into it).
Traps in this game are just sad.

i agree. thief traps are a slap in the face. who would EVER use one. MAYBE ambush trap…but even that only takes 2 hits.

Viking Jorun.5413:

I encourage most organized teams to run a Killshot warrior in their group to deal with thieves. 2 channeled bursts, one of which does ~10k and the other up to ~25k. It makes group roaming so much easier without having to deal with a single thief thinking they can take us on. If you embrace the fact that these types of skills channel and counter stealth directly, you’ll be a much better player. Thieves can do this too, with skills like unload, sneak attack, and scorpion wire. In all honesty, canceling all channeled skills targeting a thief would be pretty OP, considering that channels and AoE are the only things keeping a thief down when trolling zergs.

any necro,mesmer,engineer and thief can dothat without channels with pulls/pushes immobs bursts fears marks signets of spite type and many more. channels are annoying as they keep you located for the enemy….not so much the dmg.

nuff said here. warrior = stronger in every aspect

ShadowNinja.1238:

Run p/d. Beat everything cept dem op condi necros with dhuumfire and signet of spite which are slow just stealth and run from anyway.

and engineers.

wouldnt use this to call something OP. many of these “pros” are not as good as you think. you seem them being talked about and on this platform bc they use twitch etc. i have won 1v1 tournements and you havent heard my name. points is ur not a nub. ur above average ….. cant use that to test a build.

i did an experiment the other day…. i loggedon warrior for the first time ever. had a build i borrowed from online…high armor high hp high toughness high attack dps (full zerk) high mobility high condi cleans and super high healing (uncomparable).

i took 2ndin points, only 20 behind 1st (then again i didnt even cap a node once…if i had i wouldhave crushed the competition)….. i took highest kills….best objective defender…best objective assaulter. basically the best in offense and defense categories with highest number of kills.

FIRST….TIME….PLAYING. i literawlly have had 0 games on warrior….no lvled up warrior. theres basically no way i played warrior. as i proved and did super well. now thats called NUB doing well.

thief isnt op…. used to beback in 2012.

TG is way better than BV…BV is the WORST stunin entire game hands down.

godz raiden.2631:

Yeah but even with half the skills in the game being able to track me in stealth, my stealth is still OP! There’s no way any of those skills you named could be considered a counter play to my ability to stealth. Besides, when I stealth I am I also invulnerable…

Says the majority of the forum community.

i kill almost as many thieves IN stealth as i kill OUT of stealth. such horrifically false statement.

babazhook.6805:

Interesting. I myself was toying with the concept of using part rampagers in a might build using noble runes. You can get your crit chance to over 40 percent quite easily and while the damage will not as high as a crit build , with 16 stacks of might on in perpetuity with little effort needed , one can generate high condition damage as well as direct.

Life steal that procs on crit along with assassins reward and or leeching venom might be interesting.

As to the Runes of Vampirism . I am unclear as to how you use them. When it triggers the mist do you through up a Shadow refuge and stay inside? You would be immune for damage for the first part and then get the full benefit of the refuge not so or are all skills disabled?

all skills are disabled but still condis hit you and you can stay in stealth of SR…yup. its quite lovely.

NinjaEd.3946:

Didn’t say the op thinks they’re op, I’m saying (some of) the people who watched it and commented are getting that idea (not naming anyone).

Many people before though already expressed their points, thief isn’t on that spike dmg pedestal alone.

the people might get the idea….from his thread title…

“Thiefs (think he means Thieves here) are OP (means OVERPOWERED) Nerf pls”

:P fail.

hybrid.5027:

NinjaEd.3946:

Well in pve where people think zerker is unstoppable, yeah I tend to see a lot of dead thieves. Heck I even see a lot of dead warriors. Point is OP posted a video of a thief hitting hard and people seem to delude themselves into thinking ONLY thief can do that which is not at all true.

The OP doesn’t think that, the OP is quite well informed of how much damage each class can do.

so the OP is being 100% sarcastic then right?

did i also mention you get free hits on a thief by attacking why they are in stealth? i mean… as you say… YOU KNOW they are coming for backstab. . .

@Original Poster.

i bet you realize that less than 33% of your attempts at backstab hit backstab right?

no imagine you lose stealth everytime.

things an opponent can do:

1) walk backwards
2) dodge at 2 secs
3) aegis
4) block
5) invulnerabilty
6) stealth
7) AOE (immob,stun etc)
8) blind
9) shadowstep/blink/leaps/dashes etc
10) use walls/corners to position body
11) cripple thief/freeze thief or use swiftness so they cant catch you while stealthed
12)Sic Em
13) stealth trap
14) ground traps (ranger/thief and a few others)
15) hide inside of summons (clones/phantasms/pets/thieves/minions etc)

i can list another 10 more but i think you get the idea. some are easy some are a lil more…experienced/intelligent ways….

bottom line is a thief has to be smart and predict…then maneuever and GUESS which way is best to backstab. all this is on the players intelligence , intuition and skilled actions…. THAT SAID….TELL ME WHY….. do you think a player who sits still and presses aegis on f2 should get a thief revealed for hitting backstab on that aegis???? its so obviously a very skilled action VS. a 1button sit still with eyes closed EASY button action

NinjaEd.3946:

Small test:

Both character’s were made to have equal power, and analyzed for their single high damage hit skills. Thief with backstab, and warrior with eviscerate. I added 7 points into DA for thief so the power values would be as close as possible due to the fact that axes have a naturally higher damage bracket, but all other traits/gear were removed. Then to show the scaling coefficients of these skills, I added a berserker amulet with a berserker jewel. Here are the results.

Without amulet
Warrior http://imgur.com/Xyw49bT
Thief http://imgur.com/stQWpFY

With amulet(to show the scaling)
Warrior http://imgur.com/BC1nWC6
Thief http://imgur.com/2i0KVs4

So what does this prove exactly? It proves warrior is just as capable of spiking nasty hits like thief, in fact more so. Thief only has the luxury of repeating this process slightly quicker but in return has little to no defenses and is punished heavily for mistakes. A dead thief = 0 dps.

thanks for posting this…saved me some work. people dont keep it in perspective.

kudos!

Tree.3916:

Travlane.5948:

i dont play warrior. i play thief. i have tested EVISCERATE, 100b, and BACKSTAB all in wvw under same conditions.

full zerk
25 stacks might
25 stacks vulnerability
25 stacks bloodlust

and they were both the same dmg. only REAL difference is that warrior had higher HP/toughness/defense/armor and more attacks per X time.

Forgive me for not taking your word for it but do you have any physical proof for these results? It must be incredibly difficult to get control like conditions in WvWvW for experimenting. I would like to see how you did it so I can try it myself.

Travlane.5948:

yes a warrior can do this but i really dont do COE anymore as i have every legendary and dont need the money.

That’s fine, but if you can’t back up your claims with evidence then it is not wise to make such claims.

Travlane.5948:

i would like to see this in a experimental set up. that means no group buffs and no group debuffs. its so unrealistic and even with group help …its PVE dungeon which are very easy. even COF is harder than COE. that build hes running cannot go anywhere other than easy nub areas.

How can you say that it is unrealistic when the goal of dungeons is for 5 people to complete a path; not one.

Travlane.5948:

as a matter of fact i could go get a naked engineer and beat that thief in 1v1…thats how fragile he is.

Good thing this is a team game. Most people get upset when challenged and offer “1v1 fite me bra” but the reality is, in PvP there is no guarantee of a 1v1 so why force such a situation. There is no best player, there is the best team.

1) read the comment just above this. warrior does higher dmg.

2) it is provable. d/d cannot make 25 or even close stacks of vuln and you had 19stacks of might given from teammates along with fury.

3)yes i can back up my claims. check pic at bottom of this.

4) it IS unrealistic. bc for it to be OP it would have to be self reliant and applicable by yourself. if you get every buff in game from teammates and then hit hard…u cant say its OP bc its help from teammates. what dont you get?

5) you are right…there IS no guarantee of a 1 v 1. tell you what. ill get 5 engineers. you get 15 thieves with this suicide build. u will die everytime. THAT is fact. i could get 5 necros or 5 guardians too. doesnt matter. bc 1v1 was me giving a CONSERVATIVE example. the higher it goes…like 8v8 or 50v50…the worse it gets for this thief build.

bottom line is its ANYTHING but overpowering. perspective buddy….perspective. keep it in perspective and you will find the truth wherever you look.

AikijinX.6258:

I main a build with rampager trinkets and weapons right now. It’s a life steal build. I still have yet to release, and put it on forums though. I’ve been so lazy.

this is what ive been doing too…“TRYING” to do anyway.

i run vampire runes….the 10% mist thing is gr8 and helps me save when last refuge goes off and is like a free kill.

swap leech sigil runes..

i cant seem to work any points into power traitline

Tree.3916:

Travlane.5948:

the OP doenst know the difference between thief dmg and GROUP dmg.

Oh, so I guess the thief was the only one with 25 stacks of might and 100% crit? Party buffs only go to the thief… checks out!

that said…warrior can do as much or more with a couple of skills like 100b or eviscerate.

nice story…not

Let’s see your video of your warrior doing 47k evis or 100b… besides Warriors are so 2013.

i dont play warrior. i play thief. i have tested EVISCERATE, 100b, and BACKSTAB all in wvw under same conditions.

full zerk
25 stacks might
25 stacks vulnerability
25 stacks bloodlust

and they were both the same dmg. only REAL difference is that warrior had higher HP/toughness/defense/armor and more attacks per X time.

yes a warrior can do this but i really dont do COE anymore as i have every legendary and dont need the money.

i would like to see this in a experimental set up. that means no group buffs and no group debuffs. its so unrealistic and even with group help …its PVE dungeon which are very easy. even COF is harder than COE. that build hes running cannot go anywhere other than easy nub areas.

as a matter of fact i could go get a naked engineer and beat that thief in 1v1…thats how fragile he is.

well according to the notes (if they are real)…its not going to basically be like a summon. 1 thief for 20 secs…every 30 secs. not bad. if u get it on lower cooldown its like running with a thief at all times.

that said…. it kinda makes TG look weak being on a 180s CD timer.

PS…. to all those whom thing TG is OP….

they hitfor 108 (pistol user) and 220 ish (dagger user) and each have 1 utility… scorpion wire and ONE black powder shot (4s). this is weaker than ranger pets…this is weaker than all of memser summons…. not really OP and especially when u can kill them both in 2-3 secs flat. pfft.

alchemyst.2165:

Travlane.5948:

d/p doesnt need tuning DOWN…i think they should INCREASE the aoe circle from BPS by 60 radius….POSSIBLY turn it down to 3 secs and 5 init isntead. that way the thief can actually use the BP rather than get beat tohell inside it. right now its almost useless against good players.

Actually, I’m a thief, and I really don’t think it needs a radius increase. Then no one would be able to melee you….60 radius is a big change from like, what, 120? The diameter of it is 240, so you’re adding another 120 on to it. Also, you can easily position yourself so that people can’t melee you. Just go to the edge of the powder.

point is …its either fine. if it needs a change…it should be buffed bc thief defense is so bad right now.

hihey.1075:

Alex Behemoth.4952:

This is the only problems I have with the class. Hopefully I will get replies of how about I need to learn to play or such. Since I think that if most of the community has these complaints then they must step up their game and improve

Fixed it for you. Nice try though.

Also, fun fact: the people who are complaining are only (bad) WvWers, as almost no one in PvP is complaining about stealth thieves.

really good point. cant realy play stealth well bc of 4 sec revealed in pvp. i think its way too long. they should have put thieves in medium HP range. not lowest.