Guild Wars 2

bobomb.5209:

Travlane.5948:

bobomb.5209:

Introp.8465:

bobomb.5209:

Level 2 anything just means that you only play PvP honestly.

i presume he doenst have level 2 everything because he said he is thief player in wvw. And what would being only spvp player has to do with his original statement? you make even less sense

Obviously you are not understanding what I am saying. OP stated that he was new to warrior, and that his level 2 warrior was proof of that, suggesting that a level 2 character means you have no experience whatsoever. But in PvP your character does not level up as in PvE. You can play as many hours and matches on a character and they won’t level in PvP, thus making the “My character is level 2” arguement invalid.

I apologize if you were confused, I will try to speak even more simply next time.

no you are confused. bc if i played spvp alot or tpvp alot i would rank up. so if i have a lvl 2 warrior AND no rank. you cant argue that. srry that you are confused.

You are obviously a new player and you are also misinformed. I would suggest going to the “Players helping Players” Section of the forums for some tips and general knowledge of the game.

im more experienced than you. just not in spvp. which was my entire point and also proves that warrior is OP. thank you for driving my point home

bobomb.5209:

Travlane.5948:

bobomb.5209:

Level 2 anything just means that you only play PvP honestly.
I have a level 2 Elementalist

if i have a lvl 13 pvp account (is pvp character or account based?) either way it will prove.

lvl 2 warrior. no rank spvp.

all other characters lvl 80 (guard engineer THIEF necro) and no rank or 13 rank spvp.

i mean… pfft right? how does that say i dont play warrior? i have never logged onto a warrior until that experient.

Pssssssssssssst this is PvP not WvW. If you have really played PvP long and on multiple characters you would’ve noticed PvP rank is account bound.

Also rank 13 is not high, that’s barely above Rabbit.

It seems to me as though you are either lying, or completely unqualified to run this “experiment”.

Edit: It is impossible to have a character with 13 rank in PvP and another character with 0 rank in PvP

THANK YOU FOR PROVING MY POINT! im a total warrior nub! so me playing a good thief and then 15 matches of spvp and crushin it…. that alone says warrior is set up so even nubs can play them on a competitive level.

so me showing a pic of a lvl 2 warrior with no rank in spvp….. DOES give validity that i dont play. i just found out from locuz picture i can show my pvp stats too! that would prove it again! theres no way you could say me showing a pic doesnt prove it. utter silliness. im sorry its beyond you

BlackBeard.2873:

Travlane.5948:

Disabling Shot: This skill now has an initiative cost of 5, up from 4. Damage has been increased by 7% to compensate.

7%?

try 75% to compensate. anet isnt very good at math.

im seriously done with stupidity like this.

You don’t use disabling shot for the damage. 7% seems arbitrary, true, but the skill is INCREDIBLY strong, especially given the init buff from a couple patches ago.

Also, Improvisation change will be OP as all hell. So many ways to just break it.

I’m sad with this power-creep. All buffs…few real nerfs (which is what is needed for most professions). The arms race continues.

so tell me this…is it stronger than 4 secs of invulnerability? (no it only lasts 3 secs if spammed)

is it stronger than 5 secs of block (no it only has 3 secs)

does it allow you to get away? (no each only pushes you back abuot 200-250 range)

does it do much dmg (barely any… even in full zerk its only a couple/few hundred)

does it give long cripple? (no only like 1.5 seconds)

do other classes have both weapsets on cooldown for 3 secs of dodgign? (NOlol that would be so bad…..eventho we sacrifice all attacks if we spam it)

so there is nothing OP about the skill no matter HOW you look at it. there is no argument. to say this is op you would have to nerf dozens of block/invuln skills and other long evade skills like blur. they dont even have a drawback. b ut thieves lose all initiative if we go for a full 3 sec dodge. get real.

bobomb.5209:

Introp.8465:

bobomb.5209:

Level 2 anything just means that you only play PvP honestly.

i presume he doenst have level 2 everything because he said he is thief player in wvw. And what would being only spvp player has to do with his original statement? you make even less sense

Obviously you are not understanding what I am saying. OP stated that he was new to warrior, and that his level 2 warrior was proof of that, suggesting that a level 2 character means you have no experience whatsoever. But in PvP your character does not level up as in PvE. You can play as many hours and matches on a character and they won’t level in PvP, thus making the “My character is level 2” arguement invalid.

I apologize if you were confused, I will try to speak even more simply next time.

no you are confused. bc if i played spvp alot or tpvp alot i would rank up. so if i have a lvl 2 warrior AND no rank. you cant argue that. srry that you are confused.

Locuz.2651:

Introp youre a hotjoin hero that claims that he wins 50% of his 1v1s vs other hotjoin people….while playing warrior. Hotjoin players are in 99.99% of the cases a lot worse than the guys youll meet in soloq (esp if youre in the top 1000). The only exception is a random soloq player that does some hotjoins while waiting for queues to pop.

Meanwhile youre arrogant and pretend you have a clue. Play a couple of 100 games in the top 1000 and come back. Untill then, please be quiet.

thats a false statement as every hardcore/good TPVP player plays SPVP too ! its utter nonsense :P

warrior is OP and set up so any nub can play it. period.

bobomb.5209:

Level 2 anything just means that you only play PvP honestly.
I have a level 2 Elementalist

if i have a lvl 13 pvp account (is pvp character or account based?) either way it will prove.

lvl 2 warrior. no rank spvp.

all other characters lvl 80 (guard engineer THIEF necro) and no rank or 13 rank spvp.

i mean… pfft right? how does that say i dont play warrior? i have never logged onto a warrior until that experient.

i can show you my account. would u like to see the lvl 2 warrior?

all the mesmers i see are PU or focus on blowing up and stunning. basically AI does most the work ….kinda lame of anet to make AI so much more relevant than a player.

i notice its distance related…well % is higher of resetting if ur outside of like 600 range. im not saying like 1800 range or something. but more than melee.

Interceptor.2653:

No way those notes can be real. Five-venom builds are going to far too powerful with a free reset on Steal.

right. 10 0 30 0 30 full condi/heal and mug heal. wow. thats awesome if true. lets cross our fingers

this wouldhelp with the disabling shot bs.

Disabling Shot: This skill now has an initiative cost of 5, up from 4. Damage has been increased by 7% to compensate.

7%?

try 75% to compensate. anet isnt very good at math.

im seriously done with stupidity like this.

Auesis.7301:

No, don’t ask for more changes. Those changes will just be more nerfs. Make do with what we have now.

auesis….. this is pathetic and sad. but true.

anet has driven us to perspectives/comments like this. so very very sad and oppressed but so very true. :/

BV is our weakest elite :/ weaker than devourer venom. use TG like a real man! lol

Introp.8465:

Introp.8465:

Show me the video proof of non edited 1×1 with same skill level thief ( adding a proof that duel is not rigged, asking some buddy to lose) or gtfo with your dumb statements.

^ still waiting. You rank on leaderboards is pathetic, you can now stop pointing at it as if would be lifetime achievement. 52% w/l in any team game is average for a person who has normal reaction time and some game knowledge.

P.S. im too lazy to rip you words out of context, just imagine i did so

leaderboards mean kitten. seriously. kitten. you cant look at leaderboards and determine personal skill. only thing you can affirm is they are PROBABLY decent/better. its a team game. not individual. however that said they most of the time are pretty good. but even so that doesnt mean somebody who is not ranked ….sux. i beat ranked players all the time. good fights but i dont see them as “pros” …alot of them anyway…. i got most my 1v1 experience in wvw….. which is harder bc people hit harder. anyway all im saying is ASSUMPTION is the mother of all F ups. dont assume.

if you would like me to prove my point…come duel my lvl 13 arssse spvp. yeapo thats right im only lvl 13 ill put youin a video on this forum.

ReesesPBC.4603:

The only real way to have controlled experiments and results would be to take people who have never played the game and have them play all the classes against all the classes and then poll them to see what they thought was easy/difficult. And then would have to factor in what kind of builds they used and etc which would take forever and would result in the warrior being easiest as it is “user friendly” and probably ele/rng among the difficult. The OP is still just trying to relay his experience with the factor of time vs skill vs success rate. From what Locuz is pointing out it seems he’s also pointing out the contrary to what people are saying; that at higher level of play warrior loses its ground while he’s able to take down a Rank 20 thief when he’s rank 500, which is a huge gap if that’s any indicator of skill, which I think it is.

locuz is reaffirming my point actually not on the contrary. …prolly just a mistype you did but wantedto point it out.

IrishPotato.6327:

I hope you realize that to make an experiment on a warrior being OP against other classes you have to play against you know…other classes not just one. And I mean to fully test our your theory. One player doesn’t conclude an experiment. If you want I’ll test your theory with you on my ranger in spvp

i see your point. but i said that i did. i played 1v1 against a good thief. and did about 15 rounds of SPVP which i was in top 2 most of the time for poitns and kills. lets not nitpick the point was well proved. on thief i die atleast 3x as much per match if i go full zerk. engineer about 2x as much. guardian about1 more time per match. there is a big gap in stats /abilities . warrior can do ev erythign well all at once. thats not something any other class can replicate.

IDK … what im saying is…it wasnt lag or a slow channel or precast before invis. im talking i stacked invis even once….it was def AFTER invis. several seconds. idk many mesmer skills fromt he attack end but only from defense. i know none of them channel 4-5 secs+ …do they?

how about drop stealth… and im ok with it. but i want this in return bc we basically bc a warrior.

i want higher HP…atleast the middle class.

i want mug un-nerfed and CND and HS too.

i wont ask for higher armor but i want higher toughness

i want stability , protection, invulnerability, aegis, blocks or atleast 4 of them.

i want more mobility

i want burning

add torment removal on HiS

and lastly i would like more condi removal atleast comparable to warrior.

IF YOU ARE NOT OK WITH THIS………then you really have no right to talk about stealth in any fashion.

IF YOU AGREE WITH THIS….. i say we propose it !

Julie Yann.5379:

Travlane.5948:

Julie Yann.5379:

Ganathar.4956:

Julie Yann.5379:

@OP I dare you to take that warrior of yours and face a good engi or mesmer in PvP and then tell me it is OP. Even a good D/P or P/D thief would be you a run for your money. You could even add the Spirit Ranger to that list.

So you want a player who has barely played a warrior to go against a GOOD engi or mesmer? Yeah, tell me more!

If the OP faces a good mesmer or engineer and loses it proves nothing because he just started warrior. However, if he wins it will further prove the point that warriors are OP.

Alright, I dare him to get good with warrior then take on a good engi or mesmer in PvP and then come back here and tell us who is OP. As it has been said many times before, Warriors are OP when nubs are fighting but the higher up the skill ladder you go the less and less effective it becomes until it is pretty much balanced. I would love if Anet made warriors a little more difficult to play while still maintain it’s effective at higher levels. That way there would a whole lot less QQ about from all these nubs.

i was a nub when fighting with mine. literally the first time i had every even logged on a warrior. so nubs = better than pro warriors? hrm idk about that. i was doing amazing in spvp..MUCH better than thief. i was dying 1-2times per match and always in the top 2 maybe 3 players on a bad round. and im a VERY good thief. i have won tournements with him and everyting plush ave 4 legendaries…i have spent most my time on thief…. so experience or lack ther eof really goes to show you. unless u are saying soon as ihopped on warrior all the opponents were nubs….. then ill say yah i can see your point.

You talking spvp hotjoins? That place is full of nubs.

My points was, it’s easy to pick up warrior and do well with it. The gap between a bad warrior and a highly skilled one is not as big as with other classes. Once you start facing more and more skilled opponents Warriors aren’t quite as effective and in the higher levels of play warrior is actually pretty close to being balanced. Still needs a few things to be toned down or a few profession to be toned up but it’s no where near as bad as all these nerf threads are claiming.

oh ok i didnt know u were going to call 100% of all players across 15 or so matches all nubs. i didnt think anyway was that silly :P yes theres somenubs but even the best players like to do SPVP for some toned back relax time. tpvp can take a toll bc its more serious. spvp is fun and EVERY ONE…of the best players does it. so be realistic.

1st time player beats nubs/mediocres/pros …. and you can also tell but playing them . of course some were crappy but some were really good.

kibbles i said that wasnt it. i have been playing since day 1….. i have won tournements…i have full ascend…full legendaries… im not a nub.

i said there was some kind of anomaly … ill try go back and get a video today.

i was only getting their ranged skills if that matters or not.

Grimreaper.5370:

“i was clicking all the skills with mouse and reading them as fighting. popping all my signets when i shouldnt have been (figured that out after first battle which is why my left over HP went up so high).”

Oh man, I’m dying, just picturing this fight going on between the two of you as the thief is desperately trying to beat you to prove a point and yet fails to someone clicking skills while READING them. LMAO

my true saving grace….was having 1 evade every 1.5 secs on warrior. i think thats the reason i truely was about to make up for my lack of experience.

Kibbles.9813:

A lot of these discussions overlook a rather major issue that causes a slanted perspective between who perceives Warriors as broken and who has no issue dealing with them, and it partially comes down to Poison availability.

A Warrior running the Healing Signet (along with Adrenal Health) has access to a baseline heal that ticks no matter if the player is stunned, interrupted, low on health, high on health, running away, engaging or subjected to any other numbers of external modifiers. The only way to mitigate any of the passive Healing is using Poison, which cuts it by a (huge) 33%. Any Profession that can deliver constant, reliable Poison application is effectively engaging a hilariously nerfed version of said Warrior and will have a much easier time dealing with the now severely reduced regeneration rate.

The ability to apply Poison between each Profession and even weapon set ranges from noticeable to nearly nonexistant, with Guardians, Elementalists and (ironically) Warriors at the absolute bottom of this chain. Their only potential source of Poison comes from a three-second Sigil on weapon swap, which can either instantly be cleansed or expires before it has any noticeable impact. On the other hand, a D/X Thief, Necromancer, Engineer or Sword Ranger applies Poison by merely using weapon skills, which can change the entire perceived dynamic of such encounters drastically.

I have no reliably fair suggestion on how to fix this issue, but it’s something to keep in mind. Any Profession that can cut a Warrior’s entire healing ability by 33% is much less likely to perceive the constant uninterruptible ticks as major contributing factor when it comes to balance suggestions.

they have 5 ways of removing condis. all in the same build. 2 of them are “remove all conditions”….anothe 2 are remove 1-3 conditions…. i doubt poison is a problem. good point….just moot in the realistic picture tho.

Sanduskel.1850:

A thief complaining about a warrior?? Really??!!

Some of we thieves don’t struggle with warriors. They aren’t that bad.

Lol just noticed an earlier post. D/P thieves are definitely NOT high risk. Sorry, I’ve played one.

i had no problem on warrior….first time ever….staying outside of black powder. even with 100blades or furry or bow…its soo fast only 1/4 attacks get blinded. :P

and i moved around alot too so the thief would have to chase back n forth in stealth. wasvery annying for him bc i made surehe spent most his time chasing to set up backstab rather than just banging it out. oh yeah and i had 1 dodge roll every 1.5 seconds. thats alot on warrior too!

lupi has been doint this… yes.

however others do it too.

i have also noticed this but its nto a constant. some do some dont. anet should look into it.

So idk if this is SPVP only or not but…

i noticed i have mesmer clones or phants attacking me while i am invis. no this wasnt channeled while me casting a stealth skill. it was well after…like 2-3 secs. happened several times last nite. thought it was just badtiming but….not that much.

anyone else experiencing this>

im sure its not my error. i have been playing thief since day 1 and have won tournements with him. very experienced.

can i just say when i played warrior for the first time i put 2 engery sigils up and had a -4 swap time. idk that seems pretty strong and OP itselftoo? no?

Julie Yann.5379:

Ganathar.4956:

Julie Yann.5379:

@OP I dare you to take that warrior of yours and face a good engi or mesmer in PvP and then tell me it is OP. Even a good D/P or P/D thief would be you a run for your money. You could even add the Spirit Ranger to that list.

So you want a player who has barely played a warrior to go against a GOOD engi or mesmer? Yeah, tell me more!

If the OP faces a good mesmer or engineer and loses it proves nothing because he just started warrior. However, if he wins it will further prove the point that warriors are OP.

Alright, I dare him to get good with warrior then take on a good engi or mesmer in PvP and then come back here and tell us who is OP. As it has been said many times before, Warriors are OP when nubs are fighting but the higher up the skill ladder you go the less and less effective it becomes until it is pretty much balanced. I would love if Anet made warriors a little more difficult to play while still maintain it’s effective at higher levels. That way there would a whole lot less QQ about from all these nubs.

i was a nub when fighting with mine. literally the first time i had every even logged on a warrior. so nubs = better than pro warriors? hrm idk about that. i was doing amazing in spvp..MUCH better than thief. i was dying 1-2times per match and always in the top 2 maybe 3 players on a bad round. and im a VERY good thief. i have won tournements with him and everyting plush ave 4 legendaries…i have spent most my time on thief…. so experience or lack ther eof really goes to show you. unless u are saying soon as ihopped on warrior all the opponents were nubs….. then ill say yah i can see your point.

nicknamenick.2437:

Travlane.5948:

scabrous.7835:

Going to leave this here…
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIEQNAseSjkOtwBPGPMxBE0DNsK4iThxT9wO2w4A-j0CBYfCiEEg0yQkFA5mKrZnCiVNFRjVbDT5SQW7KpGcASBY1WA-w

Look at the stats of that spec (change to exotics if you wish to, but it won’t change much). Huge HP pool, remarkable amount of toughness, high power, crit% and critdmg. Now what it can achieve: AoE CC on relatively short CDs, blocks, passive regen, good cond cleanse, gap closers/opener, high DPS with hammer and burst potential with Final Thrust. You don’t have range dmg but that’s where infamous HamBow shines, doesn’kitten

I don’t want warrior to be hard nerfed but adjusted. Shatter mesmer, D/P trickery thief are great examples of high risk/high reward specs. You need to know your opponents and act accordingly to their actions, not just mash buttons. Warrior is just too EZ, imo.

TLDR; You can build a warrior in such a way that it has not a single weaknesss while still being plain sailing to play effectively.

basically my same point! well said bro!

Here is an example of someone thinking stats means all.

if they dont mean much give them to every class. my thief would loooooooooove the extra HP/toughness/condi removal/armor/defense/healing

RedSpectrum.1975:

Runty Choir.4893:

Form.8741:

The reality is, warrior is too strong for thief because thief lacks the damage output to balance the scales. I could try 1000% harder and lose to that war no matter what. I could be a better player and lose to that war over and over again. All he ever had to do was spam..1…2..3..4..5…etc., swap weapons, spam 1..2…3.4..5…repeat. Easymode.

Are you serious? Warrior has 5 skills, most thieves only use 2. Who is really trying to play the easy mode class?

Guys I found another one

Travlane.5948:

so ur saying they can run well….dmg well…sustain well…drop condis well…hit extremely high and high insane defense/healing capabilities.

ok ….. see this is the problem. not one single aspect of warrior is OP by itself. and anet lookst at things like that as well as warriors. but you put them all together its soooo OP. not one other class can compare as warriors can add all these together at the same time.!

Well I’m not going to say they are in the realm of 30/30/30/30/30 but yes, they have a higher sustained damage, better toughness, great healing thats passive mind you , Cleansing Ire and food for condi removal, and let’s be real here. At least we have the decency to disappear before we run. They just flat out run, a large distance and all you can do is watch them. See we hit hard in bursts. They hit hard in bursts and then can keep hitting hard. My experiences with a warrior, if you’re fighting him and you find the opening to unleash on him, and he still has a good amount of health left after you’ve used like two of your utilities, its not worth it. I once saw an axe warrior auto attack my thieves guild away after I had just summoned them (hence when I’ve seen the AA do 3k damage per swing)

In Conclusion: The warrior is the best class. There other classes in the game solely to compare them to the warrior.

Well said bro.

heres another reality to add to your comments

lets compare thief heal HIDE IN SHADOWS to HEALING SIGNET on warrior

heal per sec on healing signet 407hp….no cooldown…its a constant.

hide in shadows is 30 sec cooldown and heals for 5800 with 30 in SA.

now to compare them you find outhow much each canheal in the same amount of time. but heres where most get it wrong. u dont do it per 30 secs. the thief heal is NOT constant therefor its not used right away. its not used until about 10-15 (call it 12 for a fair number) seconds into battle. thus its only 5800 per 42s (30cooldown +12seconds into battle).

so letslook at it.

you get about 12k hp in 30 secs from HS (great bc of high hp high toughness/armor it actually happens and works well. would not work well on a 10.8k hp thief as they have low toughn ess/armor too.

thief is about 138HPS (5800/42) or 4140 per 30 secs.

u can look at it in the sense warrior gets ANOTHER 3200 if he pops it… for a total of 15.2k per 30 sec period. thats alot.

no matter how ulook at it that skill is about 30% too strong. should upthe heal on active about 1300 hp and drop the passive by 30%

scabrous.7835:

Going to leave this here…
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIEQNAseSjkOtwBPGPMxBE0DNsK4iThxT9wO2w4A-j0CBYfCiEEg0yQkFA5mKrZnCiVNFRjVbDT5SQW7KpGcASBY1WA-w

Look at the stats of that spec (change to exotics if you wish to, but it won’t change much). Huge HP pool, remarkable amount of toughness, high power, crit% and critdmg. Now what it can achieve: AoE CC on relatively short CDs, blocks, passive regen, good cond cleanse, gap closers/opener, high DPS with hammer and burst potential with Final Thrust. You don’t have range dmg but that’s where infamous HamBow shines, doesn’kitten

I don’t want warrior to be hard nerfed but adjusted. Shatter mesmer, D/P trickery thief are great examples of high risk/high reward specs. You need to know your opponents and act accordingly to their actions, not just mash buttons. Warrior is just too EZ, imo.

TLDR; You can build a warrior in such a way that it has not a single weaknesss while still being plain sailing to play effectively.

basically my same point! well said bro!

ReesesPBC.4603:

Introp.8465:

Travlane.5948:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Fenrir.3609:

Having a low skill base requirement and being OP are two very, very different things.

All you are demonstrating is a combination of two things –
1. Warrior is potentially easier to pick up and play for new players (hard to deny).
2. You seem to be unclear about the difference between something OP and something easy to learn to a basic level of competency.

Warrior may be OP, but your experiment and post certainly does nothing to prove that to be the case.

Chappy stated when they see tPvP teams running 2 of a profession, it’s a sign the profession is imbalanced.

Cheese Mode has been mopping up tournaments running double warrior.

QED

correct. i ran a warrior (first time player EVER) the other day in spvp. i was mopping up fools i never died more than once or sometimes twice. i play thief all day and still die alot more. i only played thief hard core (some engi some guard too) since release. warrior is way OP. cut the healing in half and the condi removal in half and make a longer cooldown for distance attacks that are gap closers when they dont hit and that willhelp balance alot.

Just because you play class for a long time doesnt mean your are good with it.
You statements sounds like this –
yesterday i played thief for the first time, was on top score always, never died, always killed people in me versus 3 fights not dropping below 80% hp.
thief is way OP. They should remove any healing spell, change stealth that taking damage reveals thief, remove half on initiative points.

That comparison doesn’t really help because the comparison he is making is that of his experience with, I’m assuming his main class, versus that of a class he has no familiarity with being far more successful. Meaning to say that he was more easily rewarded for the class he spent one day on versus the class he, assuming, spent one year on.

point was beyond him or he mis read it . thanks …but most people on here agree so :P no worries. and i actually spent not 1 day…not 1 hour…not 1 min. i joined warriro blindly to prove a point. could have backfired in my face and did horrible. but i was even more astonished to how my hypothesis was conservative. warrior was way to OP.

best way to see this is hit PVP ….count the first 10-15 games as warm up…. then see how you are doing. that will show you alot. dont count roaming in wvw bc its a very skewed perspective.

you put your zerk thief against a PVT class….he wont be matched up well against you and you will think ur a god. i say try SPVP it puts all players in small combat builds and level playing fields.

• spvp is slightly biased against thief due to the crit dmg cap at 66%*

Brando.1374:

wvw thief is much more potent because we have the liberty of not being constrained to a circle to win. we can move and dodge where ever we want to help us win.

youmust clarify you are talking about VERY VERY small battles. not real battles like actually ahppen in wvw. this is where the thief is selfish and goes off to do his own thing and have fun/making videos. if ur actually in a zerg ur pretty much better off re rolling. not harping on your points….just keeping them in perspective.

thief kinda not grat inpvp…. put it this way. if u have an 8v8 PVP…it owuld look something like this>>

1ranger
1engineer
1 necro
3 warrior
2 guardian

or

3 warrior
2 engineer
1 necro
2 guard

gotta remember pvp is not abuot killing each other but staying alive and getting poitns.

thief is absolutely horrid in wvw…. i mean HORRID. however let me say he is a good roamer. with food and insane gear he can do 1 v 1 well. but then again 1v1 has no part in wvw so its kind of irrelevant in the discussion.

bottom line is dont play thief for gameplay. youplay him bc he is fun and enjoyable. dont expect to contribute in battles too too much. spvp could be fun if u find a map that doesnt just zerg…which most do bc people are really bad players and/or just glory farm.

Harper.4173:

Swagg.9236:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

You are not fleshing out GW2. Guild Wars 2 is already fleshed out since 1 year and a half. While not everything is perfect, it works (somehow).

“Somehow working” isn’t exactly stellar. That’s why I’m here.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

You on the other hand want to change the whole gameplay. You are fleshing out your own game

GW2 is the square peg that ANet is trying to fit into the circle slot. GW2 is a strange, unique game that doesn’t necessarily play like a traditional MMO. Despite this, ANet has chosen to introduce mechanics into GW2 that clearly belong in a more traditional MMO with things like dedicated healers; or just ignore some obvious boundary rules when it comes to designing combat without a dedicated healer/damage-mitigation class present.

I’m here to help shave the edges off of the square peg.

Except you’re not realizing that perhaps the peg is square because a full round approach wouldn’t work.

I get that you have a very good opinion of yourself. I get that you feel you’re some sort of " savior " sent to balance and make the game better.

The only problem is that you’re not. The balance changes you’re proposing here are somewhere between bad and terrible with an odd improvement here and there.

You’re not trying to “fix” the game – you’re trying to make it what you feel it should be.

Yes – GW2 does blend traditional MMO traits with new ones – but if it went full on in one direction or another it would lose out part of its appeal to a greater number of players.

Example : if it were to become a trinity based traditional MMO – players like me who hate that would up and leave.
If it were to go the complete other direction and cast aside all similarities to a traditional MMO – most players who are into that would live.

Get the picture?

Also if you feel you’re so good at balancing games by all means start making one and balance away to your heart’s content.
Just leave this one be.

these are just HIS suggestions. the place where he is putting his changes…shoudl be where you focus your attention. warrior needs many many….small nerfs. no other class can be the best of everything at the same time…which makes warrior OP. that is the problem. try not to focus on his changes….. the point is underlying.

focusing on his changes is like a democrat changing the topic of conversation to avoid the obvious point…..warrior = OP

Swagg.9236:

Chuck Nizzle.6283:

Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerfedy nerf nerf nerf?

Sorry, I don’t speak nerf.

IMO these aren’t the best ideas, just saying. Warrior’s better off now than what YOU’RE planning on doing with it.

Of course Warrior is better off than it is now—because it’s overpowered in many respects. We have to tone it down and then give it other options for inflicting damage or getting an edge over opponents aside from popping god-mode and using [Healing Signet] as a crutch.

arrow radius are def way too big. makes ranger (pro bowuser) look like a novice

warrior isnt OP (other than heal sig) in any fashion of his class. HOWEVER

1st in healing
1st in condi removal
1st in dmg
1st in toughness
1st in armor
3rd in buffs
1st in distance gain(after 3k distance which thief owns first 3k)
1st in attacks per minute

i mean the list goes on. a couple of those warrior is tied for 1st like dmg. he is tied for thief but thats not the point.t he point is he is on top.

the problem isnt being first…its being first in all and if all put into the same build hes like 2nd in all with a few 1sts. THAT is the problem. and then to cherry the top…. all of it is super easy to do in combat bc its the nub class.

Form.8741:

p/d doesn’t touch wars or bunk rangers, the damage isn’t enough to tick them under 90% health at any time even with the “bursts” they have, and war always goes -%condi duration food plus immunity to various conditions/damage/etc…

i stopped running p/d and i was realll realllllllly good at it. i did this bc of 1 trait that seems a lil OP.

i wont say what it is or what class. i want those who donthear about it to really think about it.

“take no conditions or condition dmg under 25% HP”

basically only direct dmg can kill you. wish my class had this although there would be such outrage.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Fenrir.3609:

Having a low skill base requirement and being OP are two very, very different things.

All you are demonstrating is a combination of two things –
1. Warrior is potentially easier to pick up and play for new players (hard to deny).
2. You seem to be unclear about the difference between something OP and something easy to learn to a basic level of competency.

Warrior may be OP, but your experiment and post certainly does nothing to prove that to be the case.

Chappy stated when they see tPvP teams running 2 of a profession, it’s a sign the profession is imbalanced.

Cheese Mode has been mopping up tournaments running double warrior.

QED

correct. i ran a warrior (first time player EVER) the other day in spvp. i was mopping up fools i never died more than once or sometimes twice. i play thief all day and still die alot more. i only played thief hard core (some engi some guard too) since release. warrior is way OP. cut the healing in half and the condi removal in half and make a longer cooldown for distance attacks that are gap closers when they dont hit and that willhelp balance alot.

Jinchuu.4208:

bckerr.4798:

Stop QQ.
Thieves have become stealth dependent now, not damage dependent. Would give you many more dodges with +10% damage. Having stealth -10% damage is QQ.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding this because it’s worded so poorly but not all thieves rely on stealth. I can’t even remember the last time I actually put myself in stealth on mine.

since the infil return nerf yes most of them rely on stealth atleast a little. there is no more competitive non stealth builds. go play high end TPVP …ull get the idea.

condi removal (stealth related…unless u wanna count your signet for 1 condi)
blinds (blinding power is stealth related and so is the blind on stealth trait)
backstab/sneak attack(if you go condi or dagger direct dmg…both are used)
healing (best healing in class is in stealth)
defense(best defense other than dodging is here…every class has dodge tho)

s/d p/p s/d are just not played right now at a competitive lvl. yes your very very occaisonally see a s/d thief or a s/p thief but not enough to say its commonplace or even close to meta.

RedSpectrum.1975:

They arent just nerfing thief damage, they are nerfing crit damage period. And yes, it seems warriors are now hard to beat with regular dagger sets, even with DP sometimes. It isnt that we lack dmg output, its that they can do our damage and outlast us so much longer. In fact, they have a much higher sustain than us. Ive seen the axe autoattack hit for like 3k each swing. It was ridiculous, and infuriating. Ridiculously infuriating. But its the eviscerate thatll get you if you are not careful. My main gripe though is that when you get them low they run and there isnt a thing you can do about it. Most of the time if you chase them theyll turn around and open up the hurt.

so ur saying they can run well….dmg well…sustain well…drop condis well…hit extremely high and high insane defense/healing capabilities.

ok ….. see this is the problem. not one single aspect of warrior is OP by itself. and anet lookst at things like that as well as warriors. but you put them all together its soooo OP. not one other class can compare as warriors can add all these together at the same time.!

Cygnus.6903:

All this thread proves that was not already known is that the ‘other player’ is bad.

Warrior is easy to start with.

At high levels, you get owned against a LOT of classes.

that is so wrong. well u are arguably correct in the sense most BAD players play warriors. not that most warriors are bad. your premise is wrong. even a bad player on warrior will do well. that doesnt mean he will win most of his matches….but he will be competitive tos ay the least. u put them on anengineeror thieve they are a free bag.

most people in high end spvp/wvw/tpvp play warriors. much more so than ANY other class. this is not coincidence.

Jelzouki.4128:

Travlane.5948:

when i made this post. i meant OP is…

a class than is… (1st = tied or 1st by themselves)

1st in HP
1st in toughness
1st in Armor
1st in dmg
1st in distance mobility
1st in weaponswap times
1st in healing
1st condition removal

and has invuln/blocks/protection/aegis(rarely)/blocks and the whole nine yards.

yes most classes can accel at a few things. althought they cant do what a warrior can all at the same time.

the warrior build i used was full zerk (well it had 30 in tougheness line so almost full zerk) and had insane heal insane dmg insane condi removal insane mobility insane EVERYTHING. that is op.

you give my thief…. all of these qualities and take away stealth….the GW2 community would be in an uproar. OP thief waaaa. but only way that would happen is if ANET plays thief…which they dont so apparently.

and I don’t think they’re going to be putting this post into consideration when you call out an entire profession, not one aspect, but you called out many aspects that are supposedly “OP”

thank you for proving my point.

can you name me any other class that is as high in EVERY aspect. that can do everything with ONE build? no? ok point proven ty!!!!!

see your problem of comprehension is in your definition. OP does not = 1 aspect of a class. but it can mean the overall combination of aspects. would i care if warrior has healing signet and moderate tolow condi removal? no that would be fair. but HIGHest condi removal and highest hp regen? cmon thats a lil much. ok now lets look at his dmg…he can do as much dmg as a thief…..and still have 23-24k hp and super high toughness and highest armor in game. see if you look at any 1 aspect its not OP but when you combine it turns into a superpower.

again…. try to change your understanding of what OP means. its incorrect.

Jelzouki.4128:

Travlane.5948:

Ok i claimed warriors are OP and anybody can play one decently without having every played the class before. they can make a bad player look decent or better. basically the class is the beginners class (not in the sense they arent high end playable…just in the sense its a safe class bc u have MUCH room for mistakes and still succeed).

Another in game player (thief/warrior were his to pro classes…mainly warrior) claimed the opposite. warriors arefine. not OP at all.

I said lets test it. i have never ever….seriously…ever even created a warrior. i just hate the whole “hulk smash” type of characters, they just dont appeal to me. point is i suck at warrior and could never be good if i duel without some time on the class. so i challenged himto a 1v1 , his thief (d/p general blind backstab build) vs a warrior i would make up on the spot. he accepts.

i make 0 0 30 10 30 warrior with full zerk gear and lyssa runes (crit) while using GS/LB with energy sigils. Basically my build had 23k hp. 3100 attack. 1500 toughness. very very high condi removal. very nice hp regen (410 per sec plus every 3 secs few hundred more from adrenaline), and great dmg with regular burns. a very strong well rounded build. i used ENDURE PAIN and HEALING SIGNET and DOLYAK SIGNET OF STAMINA. im sure most of you are familiar w/ it.

match one i win 40% hp left

match 2 i win 85% hp left

match 3 i win 100% hp left

each match took 45-1min 15 seconds. obvouisly i missed alot and fumbled and bumbled so im sure most could do it faster. hes not the best thief in the world but id give him a 7.5 out of 10 on the perfection scale. just to be fair and keep this in perspective. id guess i was like a 1.5 or 2 out of 10. i was clicking all the skills with mouse and reading them as fighting. popping all my signets when i shouldnt have been (figured that out after first battle which is why my left over HP went up so high).

i wanted to go against other classes he has never played so it would have been a real experiment. nub vs nub so its more focused on class ability rather than personal skill. he wanted to play warrior vs warrior which i declined bc u cant test OP’ness on same class battle. OP vs OP = even. OP vs UP(underpowered) = obvious winner.

anyway what do you guys think of this. i can try it again and get video or even with a diff opponent to prove the point. but i think warrior is OP …by alot. they lead or almost lead most categories in game, dmg, hp, toughness. armor, condi removal etc. very high ranked in everything and i dont see many weaknesses other than mobility which is why i added the sigils of energy and using 5 sec swap.

how OP do you think warrior is or is not, with consideration of this and your own experiences. i know alot of you can BEAT warriors. i can too on my thief. they are not impossible. but def OP. dont think always 1v1 either. think in battle. think about running thru AOE. think about gap closing or sprinting (warrior currently is number 1 and thief close 2nd atleast up to 3k distance) etc etc.

I believe Mesmers are more of the class you are describing…and you still have a general idea of what kind of build to put together, this does not deem you a “new player”.

warrior/mesmer/guardian. the 3 classes anet loves the most without argument. i agree. while warrior…like i said…has the biggest nub factor bc you can aford many mistakes….mesmer u cant afford as many by far. however mesmer the AI usually does 75% of the dmg and the player only 25% so yes mesmers are cheese most of the time. they both are OP in their own way but just different

ahh yes… Condition dmg is soooo strong… anet is dropping direct dmg to -10% or basically90% of what it used to be overall. love you anet! fail!

we recieve most of our dmg while in revealed. probably about 85-90%. since w have low toughness and low hp and less overall attacks than other people per minute…. the protection choice is really amazing. it will stop the stealth spammers and people who stay in stealth 8+ seconds…it will make stealth USE THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO BE…..in ….attack ….revealed. not in….stay in….stay in longer…..longer…..recast stealth….ok healed up now lets try again.

Zacchary.6183:

Form.8741:

…No, give us back all the evade and damage we deserve instead. Problem = solved.

Actually that is just going to add to the QQ train’s kittening power. I do think this is a good idea since a thief has very little access to defensive boons.

I would also like to suggest a few other traits based on this concept as well as offer a few other concepts aswell…

Shadow Guard 30s cooldown (replaces Hard-to-Live)
If you are Stunned while stealthed, you gain Revealed (3s) instead.

> The purpose of this is to increase survivability by offering a stunbreak to thieves while revealing them to sorta balance the passive stunbreak. I also want to bring to light the possibility of Reveal-to-Aid type traits.

Caught 15s CD
Revealed replenishes 20% Endurance.

Shadow Salve 10s CD
Remove the most severe condition on you. (Meaning longest duration, highest stacked or both.)

Just a few off the top of my head.

Karolis.4261:

Fihed last refuge description for you
“Gain Protection on revealed " and thats it.

What about “Stealth when health reaches 25%. Gain Protection (5s) on revealed.”?

none of those options would help us where we need. detrimental if u ask me.

you need the .25 daze so it makes sure you dont break last refuge. its actually a helpful thing not hinderance.

when i made this post. i meant OP is…

a class than is… (1st = tied or 1st by themselves)

1st in HP
1st in toughness
1st in Armor
1st in dmg
1st in distance mobility
1st in weaponswap times
1st in healing
1st condition removal

and has invuln/blocks/protection/aegis(rarely)/blocks and the whole nine yards.

yes most classes can accel at a few things. althought they cant do what a warrior can all at the same time.

the warrior build i used was full zerk (well it had 30 in tougheness line so almost full zerk) and had insane heal insane dmg insane condi removal insane mobility insane EVERYTHING. that is op.

you give my thief…. all of these qualities and take away stealth….the GW2 community would be in an uproar. OP thief waaaa. but only way that would happen is if ANET plays thief…which they dont so apparently.

so … we have another nerf incoming. poison on bow and 10% overall dmg reduction across the board (words of anet).

thief is in a rough spot. most teams in tpvp wont bring thief. warrior right now is the best class and slightly OP.

what canhelp thief become better or more well rounded?

simple. 1 word. Protection. now before you get all worked up hear me out. its a passive. triggered ONLY on reveal. probably add it into LAST REFUGE likethis.

LAST REFUGE:

Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches a certain threshold.
Gain Protection on revealed after becoming dazed

Health threshold: 25%
3 secs Protection
.25 secs Dazed

what do you guys think. feel free to tweak or like or object. i think this will fix our outcry for lack of defense/condi removal.

exactly interceptor. its usually a run away. p/d is and d/p can getaway. but still warrior is too OP…atleast its getting toned down a lil (healing sig).

elite and 1 signetalone clearall conditions. after that is basically just bleeds and maybe poison/torment once in awhile. unless u have all 3 up at all times its not going to be much of a chance.

im 100% onthieves side here. imnot evenasking for a nerf. what i WOULD like is to buff us or unnerf most everything they F’d Up.