Guild Wars 2

Faux.1937:

I bring mine in 50 all the time, I love it.

agreed. thief actually has an important roll in fractals.

plus p/p works amazing there…. oddly enough to say. i wouldnt use itanywhere else tho.

thief stealth allows you skip ALOT plus revive.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Travlane.5948:

McFribble.2349:

godz raiden.2631:

When I run with my guild I blast into fields for stealth all the time. With pugs… well they just run out of range or kitten around and attack something anyway. I mean some ppl don’t even know how shadow refuge works still…

This. No point in trying to do it when all it takes is one chuckle kitten to walk out of the field 2 seconds before it finishes, and ruins the whole thing. At that point, it would have been just faster to kill the mobs, get some $$$, and move on instead of having a repair bill to attend to.

sad but true. bc when they drop stealth the aoe kills you all. arah for instance.

Kinda funny reading this, it’s a nice change to the usual ‘omfg stealth = invuln’ post ^^
Not that I disagree with what you said or anything, just made me chuckle.

when i said drop i meant break stealth :P

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

SaltyDave.7346:

I don’t get it what’s all the hate about that crit’s 5% is given back as health.

Abridging to save space. One of the biggest issues with this trait is that thieves already have this ability via Signet of Malice. SoM heals for 133 per hit, even on hits that do little to no damage, so they’ll heal on caltrop proc and choking gas. Also, this will proc on every hit instead of just crits, so in standard zerker gear (55% chance), this matches hitting 4.8k crits regularly.

In high end PVE, where you have high fury time and Signet of Agility, hitting 80%+ crit rate, the new trait will regularly outpace Signet of Malice. But… this is where we get another issue: in high end PVE, the other healing skills of the thief don’t do much. Withdraw can act as an additional evade, but in all my dungeon running it is rare for me to ever opt out of SoM. And the heals from SoM are massive.

I guess if you are in extraneous circumstances and you need a whole lot of healing that SoM doesn’t provide, you can trait into this. Barring that… I’m not sure I’ll be getting out of executioner that often.

i could kinda see this in a zerg build….. running this:

p/p + shortbow (key uses are SB skills 1+2 and PP skills 3+4+sneak attack)

Shadows embrace(drops conditions 2 per 3 secs)
Invigorating precision (hp gain on crits…5% of dmg)
Ricochet (50% chance of every bullet hitting up to 3 more targets and can crit)
leeching venoms (lots of lifesteal) —-———-(or assassins reward…not sure tho)
omnomberry pies (more lifesteal)
Sigil of leeching (more lifesteal)
Sigil of intelligence (yup…more hp! x 3)
Sigil of Fire (more aoe crit = more hp)
Thrill of the Crime (more crit chance = more HP)
Pistol Mastery(10% more dmg)
Combo Crit chance (+5% more crit chance on unload = more hp)

Signet of Malice
Roll for initiative (sometimes caltrops or another skill)
Devourer venom (3x life steal)
spider venom (5x lifesteal)
Daggerstorm (huge HP gains with SoM and invigorating prec and omnomberry pies)

Daggerstorm could potentialy be a fully refill.

Full zerk gear with scavenger runes (or HP steal runes liek vampires)

this might be a viable build

Zacchary.6183:

Trav… dude… its better than protection. And I know at least all of the theorycrafters will TRY it AT MINIMUM. I already have a s/d build planned for it.

yeah ima try it in wvw. dont see any other application for it. zerging….. is when i find that i really try avoid that aoe….maybe now we can get thru it. but still situational uses at best.

would liked to see 2 secs of protection on revealed. that would actually ahve made EVERY build more playable.

Auesis.7301:

Travlane.5948:

Zacchary.6183:

Holy kitten…..

They actually made took my idea and gave bonuses to reveal.

LMAO! Resilience of Shadows is a big middle finger to the people who keep complaining about the thief profession. Now every thief and their guild is going to be running it, even the part of the thief community that refuses to use stealth.

giddy all over the place

I 10% forgive you anet. Keep it up!

buuuuuuuuuut its useless :/ who would take that over shadow rejuvenation. 450hp per sec stealthed 100% guaranteed vs 50% less dmg if u may or may not get hit.

Err, me. It’s actually 323 with 300 Healing Power from the tree. You can get perma-normal Regen instead (though it is weaker) so you don’t have to be in Stealth to benefit from it but then you will be able to use things like Blinding Powder to MASSIVELY reduce an incoming Backstab/Eviscerate/Fire Grab and so on, or just to turtle lots of smaller attacks coming your way, or to res allies in Refuge much easier (they take 50% less damage too). S. Rejuv heals you for more to replenish damage. Resi. of S. is for reducing that damage in the first place with the possibility of some weaker Regen to go alongside and includes support for allies (you could also give them Regen if you wanted to). If you use Hidden Killer but still have a sizeable crit chance, the new CS trait basically goes hand in hand with this.

People are heavily underestimating how much of a reduction 50% is. We had Protection in beta and it almost broke our class completely.

i like it. i think its ONLY application will be in wvw when zerg v zerg pops and a th ief can go invis to get thru AOE fields. i think its the best use. still tho in spvp/tpvp PVE and half the time in wvw…u wont be getting hit in stealth…atleast not alot.

and ya i meant 350 (usually every build has a lil extra heal power from word stats or w.e.)

anyway what im saying is most of the time you dont get hit in stealth more than once because you dodge or port out or withdraw or w.e. and other things like blinds. lets look at comparisons of 350 per tick vs 50% less dmg per hit.

you get about 19 secs from shadow refuge. thats 6550 hp from heals per tick plus like over 1600 from regen. thats 8200 almost hp guaranteed.

if you use blinding powder you get 4 secs. thats 1400 HP guaranteed if using rejuv. you would have to get hit for 2800 …which isnt unrealistic but also most thieves dodge after they stealth to maximize thatheal and avoid extra blindly swinging damage.

i do think ithas its applications…however i still think the heal is better bc its guaranteed. the way i look at it is…you CAN come out with more HP thanyou entered stealth with while using shadow rejuvenation …but you CANT with resilience. its all about gambles. do u like to gamble? if so resilience may pay off. if it doesnt….well there goes MANY thousands of HP you could have gained. plus you dont wanna stay stealthed long with resilience but you DO with rejuvenation.

most teams with thieveslose in spvp. ive beenkeeping tallies. its about 85% that the team with 2+ (or more thieves in general) loses. they are cupcakestodefeat and they 90% ofthe time only travel in packs and look for 2v1 or better situations. this puts their team at a disadvantage as other teamssplit up and try get points. the thief also stealths/runs/hides/dodges/evades and backs out of aoe so as far as defending or decapping goes…forget it.

right now i wouldnt play thief in spvp. maybe in tpvp if your team setup allows it on a 2 man wandering team…. butother thanthat dontexcept to contribute.

srry my space is not working well.

SaltyDave.7346:

RedSpectrum.1975:

SaltyDave.7346:

Tao.5096:

crit immunity – it’s funny if it’s against thief.

Question is, which trait has higher priority.
Thief 100% crit chance while in stealth, or elementalist’s u can’t crit me.

Garanteed crit doesn’t work on invulerable targets either, so it’s pretty garanteed it won’t work on Eles.

Well actually if you mean invulnerable by taking 0 dmg ala endure pain, you actually still crit, you just crit for 0 damage. Regardless Im upset to say I too think the ele will nullify it.

It’s important to know that this crit immunity will work only as long as the ele stays in Earth attunement, and has to use 30 points of traits in that line too, plus Earth weapon skills are not made for damage as a primary role. We are really far from the extreme people seem to think this will work, like we won’t be able to crit eles anymore.

Dust Devil: Blind your foes with a blast of sand.

Rock Barrier: Envelop yourself in a stony barrier that improves armor.

Magnetic Wave: Damage foes, cure three of your conditions, and reflect projectiles with a magnetic surge.

Obsidian Flesh: Envelop yourself in stony armor, making yourself invulnerable.

Magnetic Aura: Reflect projectiles with magnetic energy.

+ protection + attunement trait + regen + aegis etc etc etc

ele just became alot more sustainable. run dire gear maybe? idklots of choices but they will use earth attunement only if they hit like 33% and wait tilhealing skills pop back.

RedSpectrum.1975:

SaltyDave.7346:

Tao.5096:

crit immunity – it’s funny if it’s against thief.

Question is, which trait has higher priority.
Thief 100% crit chance while in stealth, or elementalist’s u can’t crit me.

Garanteed crit doesn’t work on invulerable targets either, so it’s pretty garanteed it won’t work on Eles.

Well actually if you mean invulnerable by taking 0 dmg ala endure pain, you actually still crit, you just crit for 0 damage. Regardless Im upset to say I too think the ele will nullify it.

imnot very good at math but whats 5% life gain of 0 dmg crit? lol. (justmaking fun of our new GM trait)

Zacchary.6183:

Holy kitten…..

They actually made took my idea and gave bonuses to reveal.

LMAO! Resilience of Shadows is a big middle finger to the people who keep complaining about the thief profession. Now every thief and their guild is going to be running it, even the part of the thief community that refuses to use stealth.

giddy all over the place

I 10% forgive you anet. Keep it up!

buuuuuuuuuut its useless :/ who would take that over shadow rejuvenation. 450hp per sec stealthed 100% guaranteed vs 50% less dmg if u may or may not get hit.

McFribble.2349:

godz raiden.2631:

When I run with my guild I blast into fields for stealth all the time. With pugs… well they just run out of range or kitten around and attack something anyway. I mean some ppl don’t even know how shadow refuge works still…

This. No point in trying to do it when all it takes is one chuckle kitten to walk out of the field 2 seconds before it finishes, and ruins the whole thing. At that point, it would have been just faster to kill the mobs, get some $$$, and move on instead of having a repair bill to attend to.

sad but true. bc when they drop stealth the aoe kills you all. arah for instance.

McFribble.2349:

wolfpaq.7354:

Every class is getting new traits. That is part of the trait preview. Where the hell are our NON TRAIT balance changes? Sorry, but our only mentioned balance change being a nerf to shortbow is preposterous.

Read the Warrior section and then complain. They literally had nothing for us. And you think thieves got jacked with terrible traits, lol. Most of the Warrior ones that look like they COULD be good aren’t even in the right trait line…

100% Crit chance on Burst skill…conveniently NOT in the trait line all about burst skills, lol.

1k toughness is beastlytho.

wait wait wait….overwritten? yeah bc a guardian cant reapply burn every couple secs.
and even so it doesnt overwrite. if it maxes out after 3 hits it doesnt add time or any dmg.

If Player A(1000 condition dmg) applies a 10s burn and Player B(500 condition dmg) applies a 10s burn immediately after…. what happens is the 10s burn from Player A burns with 1000 condition damage and after that first 10secs expires…Player B’s burn begins (using his 1000 condition damage).

just like immob after 3 applications it caps and have to wait to reapply.

RedSpectrum.1975:

For once, for the most part..as a thief…I am happy

really? why? thief is getting a HUGE blow and no useable traits.

well the power one MIGHT be used but will mostly offset (MAYBE… havent done math yet but wont be more dmg) the damage loss from zerkers which is morethan 10% according to several other people’s math on other threads.

Tremain.4623:

Travlane.5948:

Tremain.4623:

Travlane.5948:

wow. we got 1 useable skills.

50% less dmg in stealth is nice…. atleast its 100% of the time or it’d be garbage too.

gotta say overall theif got the worst traits.

guardian gets 33% more dmg on burn (highest dmgin condi in game already)
3000 hp extra too!

pfft…thief. pfft.

The best part is how you picked the two very worst guardian traits to complain about. Guardians by FAR got the worst traits, at least they were in a pretty good spot already. Second worst are Rangers. The DA trait is pretty kitten good, the complaints about backstab + heartseeker spam with 400 more power (since most people never went more than 10 into DA before) are going to be incredible. The 50% less damage in stealth also includes other people, that is pretty decent really, although it is mostly a “rez people without getting mowed down like wheat the second you lay down shadow refuge” trait. The rest are meh, the critical strikes heal will get used in farming situations and possibly zerging in wvwvw, i would have loved it during the LA events actually. But those things are not very exciting so even though it is a very useful trait for certain situations people are kittening about it. The confusion trait is great for anyone using a perplexity build. Can’t get excited at all about the acrobatics 1s stability, just meh.

you dont play thief obviously. ok let me clear somet hings up for ya. if u ever see aHUGE backstab…they are running 25 30 0 0 15. now….even with the 200 extra power…. nobody is going to run 30 points in DA… its not worth it. watch. the power is going to be nice and make you wanna be more aggressive but its only going to help heartseeker and thats it… not worth losing utility of 30 points in trickery or SA for a lil bit better finisher.

next is …WTF ARE YOU KIDDING? 33% more dmg to the highest dmging condi in game and its likenear perma on guard builds? yeah ok… then theres the 3000 extra HP on the hardest class to kill in the game. plus 10% less dmg across the board which makes thieves not even be able to kill a good guardian. GOOD guardian.

imagine this…. 10 of your choice class or classes against 10 guards. guards run burn on aegis… judgements hallowed grounds…burn on crits etc etc…aoe heals aoe stability aoe aegis aoe burn aoe blinds and knockdowns/dmg and all the time with 3k extra HP. the 10 guards would whup dat butt man. thats crazy op. can anyone say precision/tough and condition dmg/healing …ooooweee!

Ten guardians = one burn, thats why that trait (and guardian burn) is completely useless. You cannot make condition builds when one class only has one single easily overwritten condition, that’s why they turned retaliation into condition based damage on another of their GM traits. Claiming any kind of burn guardian build is viable just shows how little you understand about this game, anyone who has ever played a guardian is laughing at you like a thief would if a guardian was claiming last refuge was awesome.

there are alot of burn guardians right now…and theyare prettty good. a bunker guard doesnt HAVE to run a full defensive set of gearor trinket….it can be in their boons and traits that do their defense likethief. now idk how u cant add but 10 guards = 1 burn just isnt true. 1 stack? yes….0% duration increae? no! 2 burns = twice as long duration. DUH lol! 1 guard’s burn can be removed. even a couple in a row. but not getting aoe burns every 2 seconds….. plus they increase duration by stacking. so

ukuni.8745:

ive got a mate who runs a pritty solid turret build, but i think these changes will be more beneficial for pve, but we cant play with em yet so its still all out in the open for what we can do.

the turrets in wvw…awesome! will cripple range dmg towards your whole group/zerg

or turrets fire rate is 50% faster when they are above 50% hp …something like that

Rozbuska.5263:

All those engi traits are just useless crap…

bubbles will be super good in wvw and bunkering points!
but thats it

engi and theif get the crap

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

youhave to react. if u dont …well thats your fault. any class can melt a zerg/ramp/valk in seconds.

as an engineer let me suggest things that are in my build

static shield
static shield discharge
Dodge #1
magnetic shield
magnetic shield discharge
Air blast (flame thrower)
Dodge #2
smoke vent (flame thrower)
Elixir S
Supply Crate
Gear shield
Detonate healing turret (explode + knockback)
Dodge #3

there is about 35-40 seconds of not being able to be touched…..

no excuse

Dude, I honestly don’t care about your l33t suggestions, since it’s not a L2P issue (and apparently the only argument of every thief).

when players cant comprehend why you have a hard time playing against a thief…. yes….yes it very much IS a learn to play issue. would u care for me to demonstrate against YOU in a video and have me post it here?

I’m waiting.

msg me ingame!

does anything forget to consider if these new changes hurt thieves more than other classes? i think thats an important perspective to have in this situation. and if so…wtf do we get for the indirect nerf?

Thieves deal 15% (estimated) less dmg which makes conditions stronger
+
Guardians + 3000HP
Guardians + 33% more burning dmg to the already highest dmging condi in game
Guardians + Retaliation Damage scales with condition damage instead of power
Warriors +1000 Toughness after a stun
Elementalists + Cannot be critically hit while attuned to earth.

wow. we go down. they go up. im only comparing that we lose so much dmg and other classes get survival buffs.

does anything forget to consider if this hurts thieves more than other classes? i think thats an important perspective to have in this situation. and if so…wtf do we get for the indirect nerf?

Thieves deal 15% less dmg
+
Guardians + 3000HP
Guardians + Retaliation Damage scales with condition damage instead of power
Warriors +1000 Toughness
Elementalists + Stone Heart : You cannot be critically hit while attuned to earth.

Tremain.4623:

Travlane.5948:

wow. we got 1 useable skills.

50% less dmg in stealth is nice…. atleast its 100% of the time or it’d be garbage too.

gotta say overall theif got the worst traits.

guardian gets 33% more dmg on burn (highest dmgin condi in game already)
3000 hp extra too!

pfft…thief. pfft.

The best part is how you picked the two very worst guardian traits to complain about. Guardians by FAR got the worst traits, at least they were in a pretty good spot already. Second worst are Rangers. The DA trait is pretty kitten good, the complaints about backstab + heartseeker spam with 400 more power (since most people never went more than 10 into DA before) are going to be incredible. The 50% less damage in stealth also includes other people, that is pretty decent really, although it is mostly a “rez people without getting mowed down like wheat the second you lay down shadow refuge” trait. The rest are meh, the critical strikes heal will get used in farming situations and possibly zerging in wvwvw, i would have loved it during the LA events actually. But those things are not very exciting so even though it is a very useful trait for certain situations people are kittening about it. The confusion trait is great for anyone using a perplexity build. Can’t get excited at all about the acrobatics 1s stability, just meh.

you dont play thief obviously. ok let me clear somet hings up for ya. if u ever see aHUGE backstab…they are running 25 30 0 0 15. now….even with the 200 extra power…. nobody is going to run 30 points in DA… its not worth it. watch. the power is going to be nice and make you wanna be more aggressive but its only going to help heartseeker and thats it… not worth losing utility of 30 points in trickery or SA for a lil bit better finisher.

next is …WTF ARE YOU KIDDING? 33% more dmg to the highest dmging condi in game and its likenear perma on guard builds? yeah ok… then theres the 3000 extra HP on the hardest class to kill in the game. plus 10% less dmg across the board which makes thieves not even be able to kill a good guardian. GOOD guardian.

imagine this…. 10 of your choice class or classes against 10 guards. guards run burn on aegis… judgements hallowed grounds…burn on crits etc etc…aoe heals aoe stability aoe aegis aoe burn aoe blinds and knockdowns/dmg and all the time with 3k extra HP. the 10 guards would whup dat butt man. thats crazy op. can anyone say precision/tough and condition dmg/healing …ooooweee!

umm is the 5 stacks of confusion trait a grandmaster too? if so its dumb.

wow. we got 1 useable skills.

50% less dmg in stealth is nice…. atleast its 100% of the time or it’d be garbage too.

gotta say overall theif got the worst traits.

guardian gets 33% more dmg on burn (highest dmgin condi in game already)
3000 hp extra too!

pfft…thief. pfft.

Amonatory.2453:

Overall, good video! I won’t call you cheese, because I can handle perplex on my thief. I wasn’t to big of a fan on the 7 minute clip, maybe add different clips next time, not just a really long one, but I enjoyed watching scrubs die

long clips show how it REALLY workstho. not just a bunch of nub killings…. seeing deaths along with kills keeps it in perspective especially when QQers wanna go QQing on the class.

save spider venom til you get target to 75%. you wont get the HP steal and u want the poison to apply kinda close to targets heal

we were SUPPOSED to have a balance patch right?

Agony.3542:

When it comes to thieves and record speedruns I would say they are somewhat similar to warriors, most of the time you want one, but not more.
The damage a thief can put out might be pretty good, however a thief is not an ele (well duh), and because of that he lacks the “OP dps skills”, icebow, FGS and LH.
A single thief can provide stealth to your group (aswell as area might), however the “efficient” application of these traits require you to coordinate with your party. Droping a shadow refuge often times costs more time than it saves and stacking up 16+ stacks of might needs a firefield, which only a party member can provide (and even then the main usage of it is prestacking might).
There are rare cases where the aoe blind of thieves can be useful and most of the time a guard or an ele could provide enough blinds aswell.
For inexperienced groups a “good thief” (who knows how to blast a smoke field…) can be a saviour when it comes to skipping.

IMO thiefs suffer from the same issue rangers have. Their class is actually really good when it comes to running dungeons (even if you clear, blinds OP…), however a lot thief players just give the class a bad name, by running dual pistol or similar junk.

p/p is actually the best set you can run in dugneons like Fractals …especially lvl 50. but i THINK what you mean to say is BAD players running bad builds…not bad weaponsets.

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

youhave to react. if u dont …well thats your fault. any class can melt a zerg/ramp/valk in seconds.

as an engineer let me suggest things that are in my build

static shield
static shield discharge
Dodge #1
magnetic shield
magnetic shield discharge
Air blast (flame thrower)
Dodge #2
smoke vent (flame thrower)
Elixir S
Supply Crate
Gear shield
Detonate healing turret (explode + knockback)
Dodge #3

there is about 35-40 seconds of not being able to be touched…..

no excuse

Dude, I honestly don’t care about your l33t suggestions, since it’s not a L2P issue (and apparently the only argument of every thief).

when players cant comprehend why you have a hard time playing against a thief…. yes….yes it very much IS a learn to play issue. would u care for me to demonstrate against YOU in a video and have me post it here?

how was this tested?

flow.6043:

Silinsar.6298:

…but with lyssa both skills will become extremely effective moves.

Right, Lyssa. The balance forum is already full of complaints about this rune, because in most cases it surpasses the elite itself.
If there was an elite that gave all boons and a full condi cleanse on a 40-60 sec CD then almost everyone would use it. As it is now some classes just enjoy the luxury of getting an additional “minor” side effect, like a stun or more boons. Not because those elites are particularly great, but because they happen to have a low cooldown.

lyssa runes suck. u basically get stability + aegis for 5 secs. saves you 1 CC and 1 hit. thats all lyssa does. nothign else. unless u wanna nit pick and say the fury or might gave u an extra couple ofdmg pointson one attack

EDIT: the only really nice thign about lyssa isthe condi removal. the boons are laughable if u really analyze them.

flow.6043:

Travlane.5948:

no such thing as cheeze elite.

Moa?

To be fair, a basilisk stun or the boons from rage signet are fairly weak compared to the pressure the supply crate adds to a 1v1.
When I duel on my necro I rarely use my Flesh Golem because it’s usually overkill, so it really depends on your opponent if they are worthy of your elite or not.

i seriously dontknow if i ever died to moa….. if i did its prolly a year ago as i dont remember it.

that said…. bleh lol.

supply crate is best bc ofstun …. w/othe stun the rest is dodgeable. rate of fire is 1 shot every 13 secs on NET turret….1 shot every 3 secsonfire turret …. andthats it. well heal turret and healing bags too but those dont put pressure. so there is 1 stun 1 burn and 1 immob every 13 secs. not too OP when u look at it on paper.

its all bc the condition system in PVE ishorrible. they shouldlimit stacks at 250 but give them less dmg or something. idk what to do really but the PVE condition system on mobs is horrible.

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

youhave to react. if u dont …well thats your fault. any class can melt a zerg/ramp/valk in seconds.

as an engineer let me suggest things that are in my build

static shield
static shield discharge
Dodge #1
magnetic shield
magnetic shield discharge
Air blast (flame thrower)
Dodge #2
smoke vent (flame thrower)
Elixir S
Supply Crate
Gear shield
Detonate healing turret (explode + knockback)
Dodge #3

there is about 35-40 seconds of not being able to be touched…..

no excuse

Vanthian.9267:

It seems all the decent people truly have left this game to rot with its horrible systems. Simple systems seem to elude the vast majority of what is left in this game (including developers). Time to pack up and leave yet again and wait for another failed patch to pull through and watch the game I had such high hopes for sink ever lower.

It is both sad and amusing that all the great players left and voiced their opinions to change this horrible system along with others (dumping adrenaline on miss, block, etc., micro controls for pets, among other great suggestions) while the developers just kept on milking that cash shop. What is worse still is some of you people actually think that stealth in this game is fine along with attacking from stealth not revealing on a block/miss.

I couldn’t imagine what would happen if League of Legends or any other decent pvp centric game (which Guild Wars 2 was marketed as) launched a patch with such hand holding systems in place. Enjoy your stealth and continue to misplace skill with a broken system.

they tried making a game to please everyone…. young….old….boy…girl….nerd….jock…. everyone. they over-reached with their goals and came up way short in everyway. still the best MMORPG available….for the moment.

they do less dmg than traited clones/phantasms. less skills. only 2 for a 20secs every few mins. only 1 condition (blind). mesmers make stronger allies and can keep 4 up at all times ..well soon as they die the mesmer makes more…. but still.

thieves guild is not OP. its good but they literally take 3 seconds to kill if u focus on them first. at best they are a great distraction and if scorpwire hits a gap closer+blind. they might get 2k dmg out of them if they survive and actually get some attacks in. its really notm uch. they deal 210-250 dmg (dagger thief) and 108-118(pistol thief) from what ive seen per attack. there is unload and the regular auto attack chain for the other thief.

i agree mr forz.

on my thief …i love when mesmers complain about me using thieves guild. they are weaker than clones. they get 4 i get 2. they get 1 every 1 sec if they want. i get 2 every 3 mins.

cant stand when people cry about it. use elites. no such thing as cheeze elite.

ever notice Supply Crate cast time is longer than its supposed to be? it says 1 sec cast time…but feels like 2.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

even so if he does get it off…. 9 init for 1.5s invis? lol really? are you going to complain?

RyuDragnier.9476:

kitsumen.7390:

why not just throw some aoe down on the black powder since you know the thief is there?

A thief is in black powder for around 1 second before using Heartseeker. 1 second isn’t enough time for any AoE to appear. Even thinking it’s a counter is laughable.

most of the time i play engineer in spvp lately. i see BPS and 90%+ time i get him stuck or out of Black powder shot. then i laugh and say “silly thieves….hope anet buffs that weak class soon”

i always pick the team with less thieves. THAT team wins 90% of the time or more.

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

The thief definitely was running glass. Condi engi running very few bonus health items.

However this is an Engi complaining about thief?

And I can tell you that he critted CnD and that HS. Failed the stab, and managed a kill by heartseeker. ~1/3 of the damage dealt is from a gap-closing skill which can stealth (this thief was running D/D though), which frankly does just a little bit too much damage.

I do wonder, though. Why did you let him get off all of these hits? As an engi you shouldn’t be having much trouble with melee-range squishies which have little condi removal and low health. You chased him down with a pistol is all I got from the combat log meanwhile you have a ton of other skills at your disposal which could have easily shut him down.

Frankly if you wanna talk about DPS, thief isn’t the best. Axe warrior does better burst, and eles have the best DPS in the entire game of all classes.

Question of the topic was, why people think thieves are OP. I posted Screen showing why. Sure probably fgs ele can do best PvE damage on his own, but on WvW it’s nothing more than free kill. On the other hand theres cannony thief which isn’t, due stealth.
I would consider myself as good player, but there’s not much you can do when your health drops from 19k (including WvW bonus not shown on stats) to about 5-6k in 3hit chain with BV. My first call was to heal it up which frankly, I did pretty well (thief did 33.2k hp damage on my 19k hp so think how fast I healed up with everything possible I had). I was already fighting and seen thief on his way, so I was prepared to get my hp downed by a little (or apparently not, lol). Idk how could I possibly react. Everything is smooth in theory, but good luck surviving that.

i never lose to thief on my other classes. findthem annoying at best. then again i main thief 99% of the time and thats a little to do with it but still. you cant CND for 6500 if ur target is tanky….unless its nighttime with night rune (10%) you are under 25% hp with the traits that boost dmg under X% hp and have scholar runes and have awesome food up along with 90% or more HP and stacks of bloodlust with some nice might stacks too. but i guess thats all the perfect setup thing that we always talk about on thief forums.

thief dmg is fine. actually i think they should un-nerf mug… a little atleast. thief dmg is high but it comes at a cost. MORE so than any other class. other classes can compare in dmg burst without the sacrifices thieves make and much easier too. some like ele can do it at range! not a really fair thing to say about thieves when you are more experienced.

Vanthian.9267:

Karolis.4261:

Can’t counter stealth …. didn’t actually read the previous post.

That is correct, there are no direct counters to stealth (or true counters as mentioned in the previous post). Once the person is in stealth there is nothing you can do but wait for it to end or for them to attack and land a hit.

I don’t understand why you thieves have such a hard time understanding the simplest of things. Everything else in this game can be interrupted or dodged before and then have another option for you to handle it after the fact.

---

If someone stuns you, you have a stun breaker.

---

Some one puts a condition on you, you have condition removal.

---

Someone blocks, you can use unblock-able skills.

---

Someone heals, you can put poison on them and keep it on them.

---

Someone stealths…. well then you just have to wait for it to wear off or be hit.

There is only one other state in this game that doesn’t have a “direct” counter. That would be invulnerability, but no class can access this state every 4 seconds.

Interrupting is a soft counter to many things. But interrupts are no where near as available as stealth is to a Thief.

Being a better player and dodging the CnD isn’t a direct counter. A direct counter is like the list of things above. I can easily dodge most of these horrible thieves CnD and backstabs but the very nature of the stealth in this game is so forgiving it doesn’t matter if I dodge 5 of them. They will always be off cooldown and ready to go. You have 0 draw backs for using stealth, but you have a ridiculously huge amount of payoffs for using this cheap system. It takes 0 skill to stealth around and have 100% of the control of the fight in his game.

Only the ones who are to bad to understand that this stealth is hurting this game and lowering the skill bar like it this way. You are not being skillful when you vanish in thin air every 4 seconds and run away.

there are several direct c ounters to stealth. what are you talking about?

Xiahou Mao.9701:

It’s not a bug for Renewed Focus to go on full cooldown in a case like that. If it didn’t, then you could activate it to get invulnerability, dodge or weapon swap before the animation finishes, and then be able to use it again in 3.5 seconds for more invulnerability, and so on.

Because of the skill’s nature, how it gives invulnerability during its casting, it needs to go on full cooldown if it’s interrupted or cancelled.

thats fine and i agree….but its still a bug bc it should renew f1 f2 f3 regardless if you finish. if it goes on full cooldown it should have worked. simple.

i find grenades (on land) very hard to aim and unless i see a zerg i really dont wanna use them…or if a thief is chasing me theni just throw em right behind me.

is there a reroll option? if not….when i do play thief outside of wanting to roam(bc thats all we have)

i play…

10 0 30 0 30 p/d carrion
10 30 0 0 30 s/p d/p zerkish

RoyalPredator.9163:

Karolis.4261:

RoyalPredator.9163:

Assassins became Thief because they lost all honor in fighting! Now you’re the kind of dirty rats 2hit killing people out from nowhere and gone to nowhere!
End of Story

I feel someone got hid kitten handed to him today

True. Sadly there is no Thief you can trust. In WWW they’re quite a big trouble for my Ranger…
Y’know what? Thief Initiative should be Ranger’s!
And then, Thieves should get back GW1’s Assassin chain-skill methood, as well as Warriors should get back the adrenaline-building skill useages instead of stupid CDs.

Sorry if I were rude, but … just try to play Ranger versus anyone who isn’t braindead.

ill actually agree with this…. however weneed the other skills that go with it. with allt he aegis…dodgeing…invuln etc…chain skills wont work here. not without more unblockables and old traits. good idea tho

if it were to go back to the oldway…. doesnt anyone realize that its weakness is ranged builds? ranger, p/d thief and so on love this matchup ….my engineer LOVES seeing sword thieves. tears right thru them…not to mention they cant stay on point so i dont even have to do much anyway.

Zacchary.6183:

DeceiverX.8361:

Travlane.5948:

you realize 2 other classes arguably 4…can do the same exact thing within less than a second of thief or just as fast? mmmm? so lets nerf all 4 and buff thief defense bc the lack of defense is thewhole reason for our burst. agreed?

Thief doesn’t need a buff. The class is good at what it does and if it did any more it would just be overpowered. If anything, offhand pistol and/or heartseeker need a nerf.

Keep it a one-trick-pony but nerf the trick? Gotcha.

You wouldn’t need to wait for a nerf if you would just learn the profession.

i gotta say …the ONLY time HS is terrifying is when im outnumbered. other than that i kinda hope they spam it :P

EDIT: this is exactly what ive been saying too! so… +1 for you. we all know thief has low defense no boons defensive no blocks no invuln…and the list goes on…this is all bc of our offense. if we lose even more than we already have… (we lost 50% of our burst since day 1…maybe more) then we need a HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE defense buff. huge brah lol. he cant disagree with that without sounding dumb

Juston.6817:

Zerhoth.1528:

CobOfCorn.6352:

the only build I believe is truly OP would be the 10/0/30/0/30 P/D build with full dire gear.

out of curiosity what utilities/traits did you slot?

I would say:
DA: Mug
SA: condi remove in stealth, blind on stealth, regen in stealth
Trickery: Steal 2 boons, Daze on Stealing, last one open to you. I prefer caltrops.

Utilitys I would take:
1. Shadow Refuge
2. Blinding Powder or for another interupt Scorpion wire
3. Shadowstep

Elite: BV

Healing: HiS

Take runes of Perplexity (Daze on stealing and Scorpion wire to trigger #6)

Greeting Juston

this is exactly what i run several months before dire came out. works great with carrion bc u have the extra dmg u need against condi cleanse builds. dire is too safe :/…. aslo dont use BV….it hurts your build when u put up several stacks of torment …and BV is only good for burst or stopping a heal…but when u stop a heal u can only stop a 3sec cast heal…. 1 sec to cast BV 1set to shoot bullet last sec to stop heal. just not gonna work. use Daggerstorm for 4v4 + or thieves guild for spvp/tpvp point control. if u plan on doing 3v1s and just tearing people apart…u are better off with BV. if u plan on 1v1 3v3 etc….use somethign else.

id say its biggest enemy is necro. however automated response basically owns every necro that isnt zerk…. that said i also run turret for cleanse and there are so many other traits to help too. 2nd behind necro…. id say is SOME mesmer builds.