Guild Wars 2

Dasorine.1964:

since when is having a sword skill that removes boons new?

Also yeah would be ridiculously strong and target the wrong people, same way that so far all their thief nerfs have mostly effected the ones that aren’t being complained about.

yeah….thts why i was complaining. its the builds that dont abuse things that get hurt the most. s/d is a balanced build….0 30 20 20 0 does about 60% dmg less than 30 30 0 0 10

Kaizer.7135:

Travlane.5948:

Einlanzer.1627:

It’s a little odd thematically, but I think it makes sense from a game-play perspective. Their point was that Thieves are too capable at burst and not capable enough anywhere else, which ‘forces’ Thieves into glass cannon builds, and that’s a very accurate assessment. I think that nerfing their burst potential in certain areas while also improving their attrition through healing and mobility is a worthy endeavor.

They are trying to improve Thieves’ survivability and reduce their dependence on having glass cannon spec to do anything.

but this is not the answer….atleast not by itself. they cut 33% of burst dmg and give us like a 12% heal? OMG a heal we wont even use bc we mostly use it as a opener. they had the brass to call it a finishing move….NO NO NO! HS is a finisher! jesus lol isnt that why the dmg goes UP alot as they have less HP? point is to get them to have less HP for skills like HS and executioner / thief infilitrators runes….cmon we all know STEAL is a best opener skill for thieves bc they are melee. all a person would have to doo is run with a bow and keep firing. we need it as a gap closer. warriors have whirl…etc jump…leap… cmon. common sense anet

LOLWAT? Did ANet honestly call Mug a finisher? If that’s true, I am done with this game. TERA has better looking combat anyway I guess, it’s also free now, might try it…

yes sir they did. they defined it as usually a skill that characters use to finish off the last bit of enemies. thats why they give it 2k hp now bc its used in the end of combat….didnt you know? (sarcasm lol)

SOMEBODy….keeps telling me it can do 10k lol…..so many haters but nobody really knows much about this. i dont htink it needed to be touched

no HS spammer will kill anyone unless they are already dmg’d by somebody else alot. :P you cannot solo anyoen using HS. if they are 40% or so and under…HS is what u want. simple. its the trick/work to get them under that intial 50%

its a slow shot. take some practice to dodge it. but yeah this is right on. also use ambush….the npc u can stand in middle of back n forth etc. they really soak up alot fo backstabs.

ok. i have 4 sets of armor! 5% dmg on each dagger. 30 30 0 0 10 (highest DPS in game) full zerk gear/accs/rules/jewels. ……. wont hit 10k…wont hit 9k…wont hit 8……MIGHT get near 7k. and thats ONLY if you hit another glass cannon. or and upscale could be more depending on what it is! read whatever u want about whatever u want. its like you said we could also do 5 cluster bombs in 2.5 seconds…try more like 5 in 5 seconds……4 trick shots in 1 second? try like 4 in 4 seconds. thief numbers are all whacked. ask any thief

with that same build…u hit a guardian….and dont crit….u might do only 1200 dmg! with a burst build! yeah 1200…iver personally dont it to a guard! go figure.

instead of hating on mug like QQers try suggest somethign: heres my idea :
CAP THE DAMAGE at around 4500 or so….4000 minimum and have it never hit less than 1500. 4500 would be the d/d full 100% power dps build and a normal build like d/p or s/d would hit about 3k -3300

well u quote theoretical ideas a lot. I play thief. trust me they don;t hit for 10k with steal. 6.5k is usually the high end. it has been maaaaaaaaaaaaany months since i have hit 8k for steal and that was on an upscale.

ps…if you understood my sarcasm you would not have mentioned my “poor grammar”

Katsumoto.9452:

Trav, steal is in its current state pretty good. A lot of the steal skills are however useless or too niche to be relied upon. The trouble is like every class, you need to carry a stun breaker. In the case of a thief, shadow step is indisputably by far the best we have. 1200 range movement, can be activated again for a 2nd stun break and cleanses 3 conditions on shadow return. If you aren’t using shadow step, well i’d say you’re doing it wrong.

That leaves 2 spaces on my utility bar. Any sustain based thief is going to need a stealth access on there, and any burst thief will too to escape once the damage is done. Now 1 space on the bar….

Here we run into the issue of, there’s things like venoms which are nice, but not good enough to compete with say, a 2nd stealth ability, or some of the signets (especially agility signet, that thing is amazing). Why take a 1s chill on a few attacks, when I can just run 25% faster all the time. Why take vulnerability and weakness application to an enemy, when the enemy will be tankier than I and need the dodges less, that weakness would deny, when I can get 2 free dodges and a condition cleanse from signet of agility etc.

With unrealiable steal skills, and now a huge nerf to our damage rotations for the benefit of a tiny sustain boost, the venom skills should be available on the F bar to bring the thief in line with other classes. Now steal will hit for 1-2k depending on how much damage you’re traited for (with mug of course), every 36-45s depending on trickery depth. Compared to shatters, virtues, second life bars (death shroud) and so on this is nothing. It wouldn’t be overpowering either, if you limit it to 1 maybe 2 venom skills on the F bar.

Ugh I think i’ll go to bed. Gets a bit annoying having the class nerfed over and over because some glass cannon ranger newbie or something got backstabbed because he didn’t so much as pack a stun break.

im not saying steal sux. i think u misunderstood me or maybe i didnt state myself well enough. i mean it sux in comparison to what other classes get for their F mechanics. id trade it any day for a 2nd HP bar like the necros have…. :P mesmers dmg from f2 f3 f4 f1…sure…name any id trade it for…..warriors? sure theirs reuses fast and is reliant on hitting people which we do fast ….plz trade! steal is NOT a stun break. so its really only a gap closer and a small % that the skill we steal is usefull. i mean the on u steal from eles never hits them (ice) bc of their mobility/mist /blocks etc. warrior whirl is good in group play but 1 v 1 = death bc ui stand there taking dmg….(better hope u ahve enough HP before you start it) thief stelaing from a thief is alot of the time a miss if not u do get a free 3 sec stealth out of it…but wtf is that compared to what other classes get. my point is that we come up extremely short in compared to others in F mechanics. ravvy or whaver his name is thinks we get initiative to counter that. but intiative is a bad thing for us. its so we can spam attacks like elementalists. dmg? nope the trade off for that is super low HP and the worst defense in game. there is no trade off to coming up short in F mechanics. :/ this nerf is going to hurt until they add some more healing in . even just small ones that can be done many times and add up. then the 2k heal is really goign to work well. it would “mesh” well. but as for now. its not a productive tool. hopefully they will implement something to make this an integral part of thief play. a norm if u will

ok mug doesnt do 8k dmg. so stop with that nonsense….the high end is like 6k6.5k on full 30 30 0 0 10 burst build (strongest in game) also dies the fastest in game. and only hits this hard against upscales. your ‘average’ build hits 3-4k with it. and backstabs in those builds are about 5.6k usually “ish” now this said…..its not OP. is it op in D/D ….eh maybe ….probably slightly yes. but in that build u WILL DIE! you have a 50% chance of killing 1 person ….then a what…90% chance of dying if theres several enemies around…..so who cares……but nerfing it for the high dmg build means nerfing the low dmg builds that really rely on it for a decent push. should it belong for 10 traits? prolly 20 to be honest. but if u look in the power line…there should be some dmg somewhere in there…but theres not….we have mug…and a 5% dagger dmg boost. pfft …thats ALL we have for real dmg in the power line. rest are a few immobs….vulnerabilites….venom crap….might /signet this n that. so mug is really our only viable huge dmg burst from our big bad power line.

Rayya.2591:

Travlane.5948:

nothign wrong
think you ahve all the facts.
no. see this is where learning inglish good works right nice lol.

you should stop for real with the english
And in the end, it is normal that most of thieves to disagree with the nerf, since is thief forum.
Bring this to wvwvw forum and 100 ppls will disagree, 10-15% of server population will agree with you.
I got one trait that require 10 trait points (adept) and got skill coeficient 1.5
now that means
if i use 10/30/30 build with full berseker gear utility’s shadow refuge / assasin signet and SoS (signets of power )- an common burst build i will reach 2400+250 (bloodlust) + 700 (20 stacks of might) 3350 power
weapon damage 952 * 3350 (power) * 1.10 (first strikes) * 1.5 *1.15 assasin signet/ 2000 (target defence- an glas cannon) -3025 damage MUG – but is not enough you want to crit for 2800 *2.70 =8000+ damage in 1 trait

What is your first language? not English right? you missed my sarcasm…poor grammar and horrible spelling was meant as a dig. You obviously missed that bc you dont speak english well. yes well….not good…hence the first being sarcasm…ask anyone . peace kiddo.

adaneshade they havent come thru on any thief promises yet…other than nerfs….so lets keep hoping :/

its over now get over getting over it

@KATSUMOTO well said friend. we were discussing the lack of steal being up to par of the other classes although 1 guy did disagree but i proved him wrong. ive been saying the builds that really get hurt are the ones that only hit for 3500 with it. not 6k…the medium builds that need that burst to really help do some dmg. they did say they wanted to buff up our base dmg to compesated for the millions of dmg nerfs we already got but then again we been promised to be made more defensive/sliperrier too….and that hasnt happend yet….so it may be time to reroll really soon. id like thief to be viable in tpvp or wvw. and not just venom share condi build which is boring as hell staying back to share venoms.

the trick is to stand there spin and then dodge out. the purpose it to get hit by HS and avoid the BS……it works. its how i play when i use S/D against it. works fine for me…although it does take some practice. i use ambush alot too. stand right in the middle of him and move back and forward….rarely get hit :P then i just stay invis the next 10 secs til i summon another. cheap? sure! so is d/p tho :P not hating…d/p is my backup. s/d is better and p/d is better in zerg play. d/p and sword pretty much own dueling tho. too much aoe……collateral dmg….fear….to deal with when playin d/p ……and i am not helping my guild by staying on the edge kiling strays.

Volrath.1473:

Complaining because mug will heal for 2k on top of dealing dmg and its on a 45 sec cd…

FLASH NEWS!!! IT IS NOT A HEALING ABILITY!!!

Never heard anyone complaint wen it only dealt dmg… Not that it also heals it is suddenly useless and needs a buff?!

Think a bit before posting this kind of garbage next time…

it is garbage….really….now….when they fix steal to telport u 900 ft without a target….then its an escape tool and you can get away. id settle for that. but right now its not good. nboody steals for 6k anymore…bc d/d burst sucks and you just die die die. so in reality we are doing 3-3500 max on it. its great additional dmg for a sword or mediocre d/p build. thats what i think most are complaining about. bc if we save steal til the middle of combat we have to find antoehr way to get closer to the enemy….HS? eh that wastest way too much intiative. invis? eh why was intiative/utility skill? shadows step? cmon need to save that for emergency. steal never did much other than gap close and intiative dmg to help get them under 50% so we can do our real dmg. now its going to hit for 1k to 1.5k and heal 2k. its not really gonna help…..if it was an integral part of thief mechanics…..it would add up….IF FOR EXAMPLE : we had a 300 hp heal everytime we shadowstepped or shadow returned and had a 150 hp heal everytime we entered or leftinvis or a 200 pt heal everytime we hit with an offhand weapon! see these arent much but if u add them up and then add up the 2k heal from steal….we have sustainability . i really dont wanna hear this is OP bc eles can heal 3 x better than this and guardians even more. we have no defense . but right now….by it self…. the 2k heal is not helping. this is a nerf. mechanically and perspectively as a thief….it doesnt not fit or work. ……..yet…..soon i hope tho. id love to have a setup like said.

nah. nothign wrong with being clueless…..just means u dont have the knowledge prior…if u did that would mean you are stupid. i do not think you are stupid. i just dont think you ahve all the facts. and you cannot cast 5 clusters in 2.5 seconds…..that is a fact…..trick shot is .25 seconds does that mean you can cast 4 in 1 sec? no….SHOULD you be able to? yes. can you? no. see this is where learning inglish good works right nice lol. they are not true to their counters. .25 secs on trick shot is in reality .95 seconds (check other forums as this is a reported bug) same with cluster bomb. its about .9 seconds per cluster bomb. you can check if you dont believe me. im sure ur a good enough at whatever character you play but thief is my specialty.

swinsk.6410:

I think this thread is hilarious.

I stated in another thread that D/P > condi builds, no one believed me.

I said that I killed two thieves in 2v1 as D/P and people said they could easily over come my shadows embrace…

P/D = crap unless you are fighting noobs IMO.

if ur dueling ur right…if ur in zerg play ur 100% wrong :P depends where the interest lies.

randomfightfan.4091:

Rayya.2591:

Travlane.5948:

well my point was your english is horrible and my point was correct. steal isnt half as productive as any of the other classes’s “F” mechanics. check and mate. and pvp is all that you do? well congrats. so you can only comment on wvw. and for 2…. whats that like almost 2 kills per minute? thats impossible unless all you do is zerging. im a thief. single targeting killer. i skirmish and 1v1 1v2 1vx bc its fun not bc its productive. point is i could go with trick arrow do minor dmg or daggerstorm just to get bags. i also do pve alot and spvp/tpvp. i havel also played about 6.5 months myslef. so again its not my mistake ur just claiming it is….PROVE that those buffs dont happen? and are we splitting hairs about VOJ? it gives a burn buff……it actually shows up on your bar of buffs as VoJ…..says burn on next attack. either a small or big one depending on activated or passive effect. and all the ones i listed most can be used and used more than once especially with renewed focus. since we are adding in skills now….. lol lets add in renewed focus so we can multiply everything i mentioned by 2….. again. no matter how you look at it. F mechanics on guard and other charactersa are atleast twice as productive/twice better than steal. and even more so no after mug nerf. how about this. lets drop all the TRAIT crap and look at it str8 as it is.

THIEF :
F1 = STEAL: 900 range teleport to enemy & get 1 skill——45 second cooldown.

GUARDIAN
F1 = Passive = Burn foes with every fifth attack x 1 second
F1 = Active = Burn foe for 1 attack x 5 seconds———30 second cooldown
F2 = Passive = Regenerate health (constant heal)
F2 = Active = Heal yourself and nearby allies———60 second cooldown
F3 = Passive = Grant Aegis every 40 seconds
F3 = Active = Grant Aegis to yourself and nearby allies———90 second cooldown

THIEF F’s = 80 max uses per hour.
GUARDS F’s = 120(dmg)/60(heal)/40(block) = 220 max uses per hour.

()=minimum excluding passives.

this is not hard to figure out. if we add in traits itll make it even more so lop sided . fight might u wont win :P

your point would be valid without any traits if :
1. guardians or any other clas in game had initiative , the ability to blast 5 times in row / leap 5 times in row , drop 3/4 smoke/poison fields in row
2.steal would not steal skills :
warrior -area damage -whirl finisher
ranger – area heal -water field
necro -area fear
mesmer – all boons
engineir -ethernal field
thief -stealth

steal hits block, invuln, dodge, distortion, certain mobs/bosses, etc. You get nothing.

TY FOR AGREEING lol this guy up here is just a clueless mob sheep steal by itself sux. the only skill i get happy at is whirl….but if ur fighting more than one player it will kill you bc you are taking dmg that you cant avoid for 4 seconds or more. you cant even use it unless you have like 60% or more hp…or ur dead. gunk? pfft hits once…adds a random condition…nobody stays in it. fear? 1.5 secs of fear? pffft lol big dea. consume plasma is nice….but 10 secs aint saving our kitten #8230;although it is def nice…but u also cant cast it unless ur invis bc its like 1.5 sec cast time. ranger ?? well remove conditions we already have…regen we have….the heal is ok b ut too risky to waste intiative in a battle especially when 1/5 may heal somebody who needs it. CLUSTER bomb is so slow that it wont even heal the dmg you take while activating it. has to be just the right condition. 3 secs of stealth is good …prollyh the 2nd best thing we have to be honest but it doesnt heal or dmg. but dont get me wrong very usefull. now compare these to direct heal direct blocks direct fire burning…….all steal is ….is a gap closer to open the fight with and maybe usefull if fighting 1 or 2 of 8 classes. :P

@rayya thank you for admitted im right. your admission is in the form of rationale. aka…you rationalized that we have intiative and HS’s and etc. well the fact is 2 CnDs = death if u miss bc thats all the intiative we have. 2 skills and we are done. anyway…th reason we have intiative is to control how much dmg output we do…..and we have decent dmg out put( not even the best 1 or 2) is bc we have NO defense practically…we are the squishiest of all classes. THAT is the reason. has nothing to do with steal lol…so stop side stepping or shirking the real facts . Guardian mechanics and every other is better than steal. no contest.

well my point was your english is horrible and my point was correct. steal isnt half as productive as any of the other classes’s “F” mechanics. check and mate. and pvp is all that you do? well congrats. so you can only comment on wvw. and for 2…. whats that like almost 2 kills per minute? thats impossible unless all you do is zerging. im a thief. single targeting killer. i skirmish and 1v1 1v2 1vx bc its fun not bc its productive. point is i could go with trick arrow do minor dmg or daggerstorm just to get bags. i also do pve alot and spvp/tpvp. i havel also played about 6.5 months myslef. so again its not my mistake ur just claiming it is….PROVE that those buffs dont happen? and are we splitting hairs about VOJ? it gives a burn buff……it actually shows up on your bar of buffs as VoJ…..says burn on next attack. either a small or big one depending on activated or passive effect. and all the ones i listed most can be used and used more than once especially with renewed focus. since we are adding in skills now….. lol lets add in renewed focus so we can multiply everything i mentioned by 2….. again. no matter how you look at it. F mechanics on guard and other charactersa are atleast twice as productive/twice better than steal. and even more so no after mug nerf. how about this. lets drop all the TRAIT crap and look at it str8 as it is.

THIEF :
F1 = STEAL: 900 range teleport to enemy & get 1 skill——45 second cooldown.

GUARDIAN
F1 = Passive = Burn foes with every fifth attack x 1 second
F1 = Active = Burn foe for 1 attack x 5 seconds———30 second cooldown
F2 = Passive = Regenerate health (constant heal)
F2 = Active = Heal yourself and nearby allies———60 second cooldown
F3 = Passive = Grant Aegis every 40 seconds
F3 = Active = Grant Aegis to yourself and nearby allies———90 second cooldown

THIEF F’s = 80 max uses per hour.
GUARDS F’s = 120(dmg)/60(heal)/40(block) = 220 max uses per hour.

()=minimum excluding passives.

this is not hard to figure out. if we add in traits itll make it even more so lop sided . fight might u wont win :P

SO…now steal can heal allies…what are u talking about? how is everything i say fairy tales? i just listed what guardian skills (from F1 f2 f3) could do. they are all 100% legit. I play a guardian who is full maxed and well used. I have legendaries with over 20k kills in wvw and full ascended gear…etc etc and so on and so forth. That is why you dont… and wont here anyone here saying the possibilities listed are BS. And yes, I did say guardians “can” do this…. not guardian F skills “all do this” , as if it were generic or a set base for skills.

now allow me to quote you:
1) “read what you write” —-———- write is present tense …you mean “wrote” as in past tense because it had already happened.
2) “Cause everything you say are fairytales” —-———- “Because or ’cause” then “said” not say. and its fairy tales….as in 2 words.
3) “Interested on your build who can buf 25 ally’s …..” —-———— “interested”? who is? we? you? them? they? qualify it plz. and my build is a thing. not a person. so its "..your build “which” or “that” can “buf”(I believe you mean buff here) 25 “ally’s” (here the apostrophe exclaims ownership) hence it should be written “allies”
4)“And thief steal can do water field” ill just do it in one shot here since its all too much to count lol. Proper: Also, a thieve’s steal can produce a water field"
5)“and because of the initiative system thieves can blast 5 times in row to heal 5 ally’s for 35000 hp” proper : "which, through intiative and blast finishers, can heal 5 allies for up to (x amount) of hp.

please, you obviously did not finish English very well or obviously go to college. Do not try tell me several times what i said or what i meant. It is apparent you cannot discern intent through written English well or at all.

PS sorry got off tract there. Steal can 100% NOT heal allies. a skill FROM steal you drop AND combine with cluster bomb AND having nearby allies that are hurt AND none that are not hurt nearby will cause heals. Its so circumstantial that the heal is a very low success rate in a large zerg. usually rarely healing unless only injured players stand close and healthy ones do not. this is because healing is chose randomly and not by necessity! if we can talk like this about steal….guardians aegis causes heals….burns…..and retaliation……again outdoing thieves ….and i can list more "sub-effects that can by caused by f-mechanics but only if traited and only if in the right circumstance or “combining skills” . u cant claim a skill to be good by using a qualifier like “its good when you use skill x before and skill y after and under condition/variable z as a given” srry not how it works.

Zuer.2814:

That looks like it’s hilariously fun to play and I CAN’T WAIT to try it!

Thank you for sharing!

well said. cand hold a bunker at best. i ran somethign similar with a lil bit of direct dmg tho myself. its fun but other than bunkering a spot…..cant do much. it would be a top 2 build if the caltrops on roll “uncatchable” were larger. thats the only thing i wish. :P

bottom line is devs said they will increase our base dmg on most skills. this is one that is very well needed. just like pistol skill 1.

now like ive said in other posts….maybe if we got a skill or trait or sub trait that gave us like 200 hp on leaving stealth early. or maybe 300 HP everytime we shadowstep or shadow return. then the steal would make sense bc we would have a heal system that could heal us up and would add up enough to make a difference. right now that 2k is a nerf. nothing but a nerf. it wont help anyone .

no no no…they dont have to take mug. however mug is onloy OP in the full zerk full 30 30 0 0 10 set up. with full zerk jewels and runes and accs etc. in every other build it fits in fine and is not op. it helps most build add a lil extra dmg bc most builds other than all offensively traited ones kidna dont do alot of dmg unless ur using hidden killer even that is minimum 50% offenseive traited. they are just nerfing it bc of D/D which isnt a viable build. hence why nerf it if its not abused? 1 in 250 thieves right now play d/d. its pretty bad bc of the overly done nerfs.

“guardians F skills “CAN” do this:" read before you correct. i listed everything that COULD be done. if you trait properly u can get about 70%-75% or maybe slight more of those running about the same time. i never mentioned heal on roll. and its not poor compared to caltrops bc 2 rolls =3300 hp easily. 3300 hp is better than a dinky area of caltrops on ground givin 2 secs of cripple and 225 dmg….u REALLY think its better? you are not good at math.

point is Guardian mechanics from F can buff/heal about 25 people and hurn/retal on just as many if not more. they can also give about a total of, im guessing, 40 ish boons maybe even more but i dont wanna add it up. and many many heals. now steal gives like 5 things. fury swift might vigor and steals 2 boons and 1 stun if traited right plus dmg from mug. all of this goes to one person (lets say on average 4k dmg which is high but. w.e. ….low end 1200 and high high end 6100 ish) so 5 people get 3 buffs each …owner gets the same 3-4 boons plus steals 2 which he prolly already has so may or may not get more and stuns 1 person. the Burns /retaliation alone outdo the dmg of everythign here easily. that said….u cross it off like a math equation. now all we have left to compare is boons and heals. thief gives out a total of 15……guardian shares about 25 and another 10 or so for himself plus multiple heals and condi removals and stun removal and area blinds. you cant compare teh to to be equal. anyoen will tell you …..the math is there. im doing it rough but still …steal is barely half as good as f mechanics on guardian. u can get about 70% of everythign chosen as a guardian and about the same chosen as a thief. either way it scales the same if ration a =ration bx2 then it goes to say that (Y=.70) and ratio A * Y = (B * Y)2 . niether class can trait for them all but basically a similar ratio of chosen traits = same ration of choosable quantity. dont argue that steal is in any way comparable to any class…we can compare any one of them…… if you do try debate this. you must be of the mindset that you would rather have a character hit 4k dmg hitting 1 person RATHER than a chacter hitting 2k dmg in AOE up to 5 (or heals). since its a team game and not a 1 v 1 game…..doing 10k total dmg from AOE is usually better than doing a 4k shot to one person. 10 people doing the aoe dmg will down/kill more people much faster than the 10 people doing 4k per hit.

Ps the only 2 classes i have mastered are theif/guardian. ive played every other but cant claim to have an intimate knowledge of their workings yet.

nope ur right. same problem ive been ahving. it sux. huge dmg hit. somethign is wrong.

half right half wrong @ savints…..For ONE….nobody uses D/D burst….its not a viable build although yes you can go with a 40-50% success rate kill 1 person at a time then die or try run away for the next 60 secs to recharge everything. but thats useless and does nothing for or against the community. changes nothing….its like an annoying fly on the larger picture. the builds that are upset are the ones that spec into defense like me. 10 20 20 20 0 …..bc of that we do really crappy dmg. crappier than mesmers by far….crappier than warriors….. but that 10 in mug can help us get another 3-4k dmg off if we get lucky on a crit. (yes it can do more in those crappy burst builds which arent used bc they are suicide/suck). so now if we wanna play s/d or d/p or s/p or p/d our dmg entirely is going to be lower than 3-4 classes. even with some specc’d into power/prec and other half in dmg. thieves need dmg. we keep getting nerfed now the best burst/best hit class is MAYBE 3rd at best. nobody is crying for the burst builds. its the builds that need a kitten of burst to help them get along. our overall dmg is soooo low.

Void.4239:

Authority.6145:

Void.4239:

BIG Boost to my build , totally will love the new mug steal

it will make it even harder to kill me now , whuahuahua

DD dodger build ( spvp/tpvp)
( fully adapt to any burst or stealth nerfs they would ever consider in the future )

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

Glad to know. Been a while since I saw that thread. Probably two months ago or so I believe.

I like thieves that find openings in each patch to tweak their builds and bring more diversity.

That is what patches are for thieves – opportunities to overexploit other builds.

To be honest i think this DD dodger build has been available since release , just not played a lot. i hope they boost it even more in the future , its a really fun build to play.

i’ll be experimenting with S/D dodger and D/P dodger next , the flanking strike and the shadow shot could be used instead of deathblossum ( making this build available for crit stats) . its still in testing fases tho

really glad they finally nerved mug damage( took them to long already in my opinion)
hopefully more thiefs will finally drop the BS 1shot kill combo build cause it really was BS

there is no backstab 1 shot combo. a combo is 2 hits or more and no one BS =death. well i guess you could count low lvl upscales in wvw? and in spvp dmg is basically halved….so its def not there. anyoen who does run this build is dead in the water to die waiting 45-60 seconds to try it again. so they die or are useless in real game play. everyone here talks like 1 v 1 means anything. it doesnt. get over it….you get owned in 1 v 1….dont say one word. bc it does not matter….if u cant do anythign in a zerg? then complain…cant do anythign in 8 v 8 then complain about spvp in reference to your character / skill lvl.

krixis.9538:

well as a pve thief who runs fractals i welcome the healing. besides i mostly use steal for the int regain trait

you have to actually spec for mug in order for steal to have the heal.

gotta understand ….they complainersa bout nerfing MUG are NOT the d/d or the d/p players…..its the s/d players….its the p/d players the ones that go mixed dmg and want mug to really help round off that dmg. who cares if a d/d wants to spike high. half the time they miss you know…..and whether they miss or go off they have to wait 45-60 seconds to try again…until then they cant even invis or hide or defend….they are sitting ducks…..its a huge gamble….but the fact is 1 v 1 which the ANET devs th ink is the base of this game……it can happen where thieves own somebody in 2 secs…yes…but if u slow…AND glass cannon…OR slow and upscaled…. burst cant kill ANYONE in spvp….lets be real. if they are they player just tried to get owned. dmg is sooo low in spvp. in wvw its easier but also very condition where you need a perfect scnario and alot of luck. half the time if u do gank somebody you die by their friends right after. so what really got hurt is the mixed builds that were not spikeing for 6k dmg on steal. the ones that were getting 3500 to 4k. thhose medium builds prolly around 1200-1500 now. big deal. one free dagger hit. pathetic.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Wonderer.1790:

Meh, everyone in this thread that’s crying is a burst player, everyone else counter crying is sword dagger or condition. Looks like S/D will be the most played build coming up.

D/P and S/P hybrid survive/burst here, I’m not crying though
Retraining S/D though right now, I wanna test that flanking strike when the buff comes.

Also another option for counter criers: Ppl who don’t even use mug at all?

Its So Overpowered only like 15-20% of theives actually use it. :P

crouze.3078:

Recharging all skills of a type that you have equiped would be to strong.
Everyone would one around with only 1 skill type and get 3 to 4 skills recharged with steal.

But it would help to increase the number of skilltypes that will recharge.

There are 5 skill types for thieves.

you can equip:

heal – signet
utility 1 – deception
utility 2 – trap
utility 3 – trick
elite – venom

with this setup you would get 1 skill recharged.

My idea would be to increase the number of types that recharge to 2.

This way, the trait would be viable for more builds since you only need 4 different skilltypes equipped to get a granted bonus instead of 5.

WRONG: venoms signets tricks deceptions traps. but u didnt read what i said. so try reread it since it didnt stick. it is said correctly. i dont want everything equiped to be recharged. but if you have 2 deceptions 2 venoms up…..i dont think when you use it ….it should recharge tricks (bc you dont have any up) it should only recharge one type and have a minimum of 2 types up. recharging them all isnt so op anyway. guardian gets f1 f2 f3 recharged on a kill…revival….rally etc…. but right now the skill is useless….i mean hell what is preferential is (recharge heal or elite or the 3 utilities) steal doesnt have many options attacked to it compared to every other class.

Volrath.1473:

Well I’m not seeing myself playing with a S/D weapon set nor am I seeing a thief with that setup taking me down ever! It is very slow, vulnerable and almost harmless.
On a thief vs thief perspective ofc.

I’m no futurologist but its not hard to predict that this changes will not be enough to make the S/D viable for competitive pvp nor any other aspect of the game tbh…

there ya go bud 2 v 1s a d/p thief and another d/p thief……guess he got lucky? he does use d/p as 2ndary as do i….but he did use s/d mostly.

volrath wrong. s/d can play agsint d/p anytime. its a draw if both are played right. d/p is actually more vulnerable bc of aoe and also bc it has to stay and cross the black powder shot base area. just hop in that and they are screwed. s/d is just as good as d/p just in different ways. i do agree teh auto attack needs to be about 15 to 20% faster to be totally usable/like-able.

ensoriki.5789:

I didn’t say anything contrary to that. Pressure isn’t valued well in GW2 because of the score ticking constantly. Similarly in pve you rather roll somethings face down then pressure it down. So the more they push S/D outside of burst the possibility of it being abstracted more from the game. As it was after the Tactical nerf haste was a good way of leveraging it, and now post-haste to burst you put usage on flanking strike to bridge an otherwise significant damage gap or you can try relying on allies to make up for your damage by setting them up with CC. Now they’re changing flanking strike.

However to answer your before question “why give something without burst, means against bunkers”. Because it makes sense, thieves role as gankers taking out generally the squishy and the weak, Bunkers are neither of those. So a thief that can put bunkers into a situation to allow for either gankers to finish off or for him to take down himself makes sense. Unless we’re going to change Heartseeker to Guardianseeker. 3x more damage if you hit a guardian. Hopefully the FS change works out, based on how they said I think there has to be other changes slipped into this patch that just weren’t covered.

i agree… i dont think they wanted to say too much lol… i mean cmon…u think 1 boon steal on a weapon that is pretty much broken and crappy will help us live longer or be more productive for our groups/guilds/zergs? cmon yeah right…..they have to hav added more especially with the mug nerf….sorry its a nerf….healing isnt what we do so 2k wont help . maybe 5k but 2k is useless :P people hit is for 2k bc we are so squishy….basically gave us 1 free aegis on the next decent hit……pfft

@volrath……agreed…

ok so that said lets take more dmg away from thieves even tho they are the easiest to kill by far…..and keep in mind retal/burning. you will NEVER ever ever ever ever ever win against a bunker guardian in spvp after 4/30 unless hes just a total noob.

Volrath.1473:

Travlane.5948:

Volrath.1473:

I have edited the original post and added another question, if someone knows the answer ple share.

Ofc if a dev answer even better!

in removal and as in most games its removed/taken/stolen as last one stacked. so if u go protection…fury…..might…… int hat order ….might should get stolen as it has the highest % of usage time left.

That makes sense! But for instance, if the first applied boon was swiftness and on a longer timer then the following boons? Will/should it steal the last applied one even though it has a short duration, or the boon with the longest duration left?

well i imagine its the last one placed on that is stolen. put it this way….remove condis is similar. i put on bleeds first….then cripple then poison beforethey heal…so when they start removing…i want my high stack of bleeds to stay on! so i gotta strategically place it so the others remove and not bleed.

agree stooperdale……. nobody uses burst anymore so its really not OP. burst builds die and are no good in any format. that said…the most u do is like 3500ish usually with a crit. now we will be around 2k dmg. it was a really good tool to get people under 50% so we can do our real dmg. now :P you ahve to use it mid fight which sux bc if a fight lasts long you dont get to use it a 2nd time usually. opening fight u may just be able to go a 2nd steal. idk….sounds liket his idea was made by a non thief… or non player…..i DO like the idea if other heals of this nature were added in like a trait that gave us a strong regen everytime we used a heal for like 12 seconds. or maybe a 350 point heal for evertytime we shadowstep/shadowreturn …..or a 250 poitn burst heal everytime we exit stealth or enter it i dont care….point is if there were a few more we could add up i would be friggen stoked about steal heal but….just 2k…..eh you will never notice this….45 sec cooldown…..not gonna change a kitten thing. this is not a trade off . its a nerf.

Rayya.2591:

Travlane.5948:

the ONLY thing worth stealing is whirl from warriors. the rest are kinda neat….or kinda tricky…or kinda fun…..i mean the ice stab COULD be usefull but its SOOOO slow and SOOO small range i think i hit like 10% or less of those :P

and the water field from ranger is bad, specialy when you got an shortbow to area heal 5 ally’s for 1400 x5 blastsx 5 targets -you actualy can heal in 3 seconds 35000 hp with 1 steal and 15 initiative
also the area fear from necro is bad /the daze from guardian /all buffs from mesmer… etc

oh the sarcams :P not a thieves job to heal buddy. did you know that water fields overlap fire fields? did you also know that fire fields are the ONLY ones commanders want down during zerg fights/raids? giving people 25 stacks of might and burning foes i suppose they prefer. anyway yeah but u gotta understand that the 25 might is always better than the heals. bc they are abviously all random… healing going to somebody who doesnt need it….doesnt help. if 25% of the people are hurt and 75% are full HP or close…you have a 12.5 % chance of atleast HALF of the heals being used on somebody that needs/can use them. :P

see the problem is as now….lets say u wanna spam like an ele for atleast 15 seconds lol (as close as we can get to infinity like ele but oh well) you would put 20 in SA 20 in acro 30 in trickery. lots of rolls lots of intitiative gain. but then you would be like a guardian. avoiding dmg but not enough to kill anyone….well then agian a guardian heals others…protects others….has retal…burning….thieves ONLY have dmg ….and bleeds. but not enough dmg to really add bleedsin. its all in dmg all in bleeds or all in defense. most of the balance builds like my beloved s/d are fun and good at duels but just dont really produce anything good for zerg play or fast enough for spvp/tpvp. as the devs said we need more base damage…and fast

Rayya.2591:

Travlane.5948:

for 45 secs.. you should get like 3200 health minimum…any less is just a joke.

steal can be trained also swiftness /furry /might /vigor /stealth (regeneration or remove 1 condition and heal for 700 )
want the trait combo ? is simple -10 /x/ 30/x/20
With new mug you get another 2000 hp + x* healing power and deal damage
everything in 1 single button and 36 seconds cooldown(trained)

raya…ill break it down for u….(and yes i know how it works) since you dont understand anything other than thieves….let me pick….guardians…they only have f1 f2 f3. not even 4 but 3….so ill start here….guardians F skills can do this: : ready now? count these up. all of them including several each bc they affect 5 players or 5-15 enemies.

Multiple large ally heals. (5 total per heal)
Huge self full heals(total well more than total HP)
Remove 3 self conditions.
Self attack cause small burn
5 allies cause small burn (1each for 5 total)
Self Attack cause BIG BURN
5 allies cause BIG BURN (1each for 5 total)
Self Regen (several Stacks from few activations)
5 allies get regen (several ways)
Self activated aegis every 40 secs
Self activated Aegis
5 allies get aegis on activation every 40 secs
5 allies get aegis on activation
Self Retaliation (3x …each virtue)
Self might stacks
Self stability
Self break Stun
Area enemy blinds (5 total)
Each = automatically cooled down on a kill/revival/rally etc
Each Passive is Stronger and Reduced in random activations

if traited correctly. would u like to tell me that steal stacks up to this? if u like me to i can do mesmer….necro….engineer especially…..steal comes up short by far in comparison to everyone. sooo…..unless my math is wrong…..steal is not half as good as guardians f mechanics :P ……is my math ok? :P if u add up all the enemies that get affected…..its like 6-7x better than steal……

it hasnt “killed” it….lemme rephrase….how about it “finished” it off lol. cmon burst as is could only kill a glass cannon thief (excluding people with 25 stacks of bloodlust) nobody smart goes GC in wvw unless they have thief response capabilities. anyway. USUALLY speaking high Steal-4500 CnD-5000 BS-6500 on normal / average player. yes it can hit 6k 7500 and 10k however thats class cannon/upscale. watch the videos and add up math. most the players in those “edited” videos have 13-15k hp. obv GC’s. so basically at 15k average dmg ur only killing class cannon players. yes i know guardians have only 15-17500 hp but they get hit half as hard too!. necros (2nd bar of HP) mesmers get out….. rangers have plenty of evades…ele plenty of condi/stun break/CCs etc op etc. point is now if u use burst you are around 11k dmg on full burst and have 0 intiative and 0 utitlities and 0 elites left. so to sacrifice everything on a burst to get 11k dmg and leave yourself a sitting duck? wheres the trade off? most the time steal misses on a roll….block…among other things. CnD is prolly a 50% hit rate for the same reason. so high risk so medium reward . until we have another 2-3 heals. the steal wont add up enough to make a difference.

Volrath.1473:

I have edited the original post and added another question, if someone knows the answer ple share.

Ofc if a dev answer even better!

in removal and as in most games its removed/taken/stolen as last one stacked. so if u go protection…fury…..might…… int hat order ….might should get stolen as it has the highest % of usage time left.

Volrath.1473:

Auto attack is not burst….

s/d can burst. just requires a specific setup.

D/ kitten till not as good as P/D. if u think p/d is better than you are a 1 v 1 selfish boring player! RAWR not being mean just saying it to the very definition rather than being demeaning or derogatory.

Mug nerf killed ANY kind of burst. thief burst officially doesnt exist. they cant kill anyone like this anymore unless its an upscale or another thief using full zerker gear. ok so i suggest since only about 10% of us will actually get healed with steal…that maybe they could make IMPROVISATION acually recharge any and all type of a certain type of skills….you may say yes this already does it. but it randomly choose one of any of the types rather than one of any of the types ACTUALLY equipped. Basically so that it only recharges something you have. so if you have 2 deceptions 1 trick it wont recharge traps! :P that said u may say its too OP if u have all the same kind… remember that everyone else gets f1-f4 and we only get f1. if they dont they ahve a 2nd HP bar or use it very fast on a slow cooldown. ours is 45 seconds. thats once per fight at best. once per skirmish. usually once per zerg fight MAYBE twice. point is it could really give us a little bit of longevity in a fight and not be such a gamble.

anyoneelse realize that our F skill is 1/3rd at best of everyone elses? F skills and yes i said skills as plural bc ours is only 1