Guild Wars 2

what is the best way to record WVW action? NO VIRUSES and free download/easy to use

Zyaq.6945:

Travlane.5948:

warriors have always had the highest dps melee aoe in game….thieves HAD the highest single target. now thieves are tied for 2nd/3rd with warriors even tho warriors deal more dmg by atleast double. speed of their gs is faster than our 1hs? wierd. dmg is higher too and targets up to 5 in 130 range. when mug was nerfed thief went from 1st on single target dps to 3rd.

Thief sword and warrior GS have the same cast times of 1/2 second. The damage is higher because they can’t stealth and they only hit 3 targets, not five. So the extra 3k-4k (?) damage from the crit drops the thief two spots? Not saying warriors dont have high damage, just dislike when people throw inaccurate stats around in arguments.

sorry i thought whirl hits 5….. idk thief whirl that is stolen from warriors hits more than 3 im pretty sure…could be wrong but i assumed warriors skills (excluding auto attacfk obviously) would be the same. lets exclud crits. lets say a thief hits 1 target for 800 per attack and the warrior hits about 700 per attack… that means the thief would have to hit 2200 per hit just out out dmg a warriro in a zerg fight….and thats only 100….(yes i know granted its potential 3 per attack for warrior but still lets just say its 2….) still outweighs thief. ther has to be some advantage to such low hp/defnse/lack of blocks/invul than just medium to good dmg.

i play a more beefy defensed up traitline than this but if u watch this is the bunker utility style way. another u can make it venom share another is 1 v x outlast.

this video is also with 4 sec revealed AND its also the same intiative regen amount as mine….theres no problem with intiative :P

Ghostwolf.9863:

Escthiil.3210:

Definitely agree that the current design is a huge crutch to thieves with a lower skill level that simply spams. The game should encourage more counter play. This will give thieves a higher skill cap as good ones need to be masters of timing. I mean honestly, it’s not even hard to break the aegis before you proceed.

And it is not even hard to apply aegis when the thief stealths.

And to break it and keep the same survival level, the thief is forced
to outwait stealth, break aegis and restealth.

And with 3 possible ways of activating aegis, this creates a
gap of 12+ seconds before the thief is able to perform any decent damage,
against the class that takes least damage as it is.

see this is exactly it…one small change “snowballs” into a plethora of other problems.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

So then you don’t disagree with the sentence I constructed for both of them where the only difference between them is that one only penalizes you when you succeed, the rest penalize you regardless.
Also, for the definitions, note that both include “require(d)”. A cost has the prerequisite of having enough to pay for it beforehand.

The only way stealth isn’t a “cost” of a stealth attack is if it didn’t remove it no matter what. However, if a stealth attack is successful, it is GUARANTEED to remove stealth. The way you define it, paying a lawyer that only charges you their fee if your side wins isn’t a “cost”, while paying one that charges you regardless is.

yes the both have a prereq….but only 1 has a cost in addition to the required condition. and on the lawyer comment…it depends what ur paying for….are you payig for his services or paying for a “successful” case….all depends on how you define it. as stealth is defined as successful dmg. its in a area of its own…placed there purposefully by devs. its not in any bug reports or flawed gameplay problems. its intentional. so im only trying to explain perhaps “why” anet did it that way.

Incurafy.6329:

Seriously Trav? Besides your trait allocation, that’s just standard P/D gameplay, and unless your opponents suck hardcore, you are killable, just difficult to kill.

In PvP however, which this thread was talking about, you’ll get stomped and you’re useless to the team.

i play tier 2 and never pick on upscales……and try to ignore d/p bc its a draw. i guess ill make a video. its an outlast build….u can run it as bunker in spvp too. just add caltrops…ambush….SR….withdraw or HIS and DS. with roll causing caltrops.

well it runs side side with venom share too almost so ….it can double. the thing about this build is that it is V ERY durable. if not ina zerg i run 5 0 30 30 5 for the 3 intiativeon steal. only d/p has enough condi removal to keep up. and thats a draw match. u think i go invis and then sneak attack after 1 sec? no you stay in the full 4 secs….4 secs of time = pretyt much 4 initiative regen…..HIS gives u 4 more every 30 secs…..which covers what u lose…plus u get more while revealed for 3 secs …u never run out of initiative here….its only 5 1 5 1 5 1 sure….and 3 as a desperate escape when SS is used and 4 as a gap closer if ever but very rarely. everytime i go invis its about 2k heal. and condi removal. in zerg play i chance out blind powder for caltrops and 5 in power for 10 in trickery for caltrops on roll…all small changes depending on what is going on. i will tyr make a video….. i promise u have my word i have to find one i can use first….all that wierd crap downloads = viruses and i dont have a backup for this computer so i need something reputable. dont get me wrong i do die. but i die about 1 in 10 times where i would with any other build is what im saying. is it dazzling and like wow ill kill somebody in 2 secs? no but it will wear anyone down and intiative is never a problem. its 22k hp…..basically close to wild bills build but less worried about 1 v x’ing and more about surviving/supporting guild.

i think we have different definitions of what a cost/payment is and what a prerequisite is.
Now i think we both agree for stealth attacks to happen the thief needs to enter stealth right? and for lets say dancing dagger 4 initiative must paid/drained/taken or depleted/given for it to even be thrown right? so which of the 2 definitions would u pair with the stealth “condition” and which would u pair with the quantifiable initiative depletion?

pre·req·ui·site
/pr??rekw?z?t/
Noun
A thing required as a prior condition for something else to happen.
Adjective
Required as a prior condition.
Synonyms
noun. precondition – premise
adjective. necessary – requisite – needful

cost
Verb
(of an object or an action) Require the payment of (a specified sum of money) before it can be acquired or done.
Noun
An amount that has to be paid or spent to buy or obtain something.
Synonyms
verb. be
noun. price – charge – expense – value – worth – expenditure

you are right …under 1 condition…..that the thief stays withing a certain distance during the fight. if u count resetting a fight a loss….then a thief will lose 4/5 im guessing. they really do have to get it just right with no mistakes in order to win. thieves have no room to wiggle/mess up

0 0 30 30 10 (made a typo here before) 0_o
Shadow Arts :

IV Shadows Embrace
Removes 2 conditions for the first 3 secs of stealth.
VI Cloaked in Shadow
Blind all nearby enemies when applying stealth.
XI Shadow’s Rejuvination
Heals while in stealth.

Acrobatics:

I Descent of shadows
-50% Fall dmg + Stealth on fall damage.
VI Fleeting shadow
+50% move speed while stealthed.
XI Hard to catch
Shadowstep away 1200 range when any CC is applied to you. +12 sec swift.

TRICKERY:
III Instictual response
blind powder when u take 10% or more of your hp in dmg causing invis/aoe blind

UTILITIES: Hide in shadows
ShadowStep
Blinding powder
Shadow Refuge
Dagger Storm

FULL CARRION ARMOR/ACCS with matching jewels and 2 krait centaur 2 afflicted runes
WEAPONS p/d + SB use +10% bleed and major sigil of corruption on other. bow is your choice.

This is…..mark my words….the best overall build for thieves and especially viable now that revealed is back to 3 secs. ShadowArts/Acrobatics shouldnt be touched….but you can move the other 10 however u want. put it in last traitline for blind/invis on 10% of your hp in one hit…..or for mug which heals in first trait line. i did 5/5 split so i can apply poison on steal for those pesky healing 1 v 1 fights and the other 5 for 3 initiative when i miss CnD sometimes….the extra 3 can be a lifesaver. Your Defense lies with stealth….blinding neawrby foes and invis should keep the melee at bay……..daggerstorm/stealing whirl shoudl keep range at bay…..and removal of conditions in stealth should keep condi dealers at bay. make sure to dodge once after you go invis to screw with their idea of where you are at….never make patterns and keep switching it up…i love running right thru enemy lines as they never expect it. the zergs usually kill most builds/classes but with hard to catch ….you SS away then use blind powder or whatever u need or use SS away then invis then shadow return and run thru enemies…they never see it coming. ive personally trolled 20+ people for 5-10 mins….and not while invis i was letting them try. descent into shadows is the most undrated thief skill ever …especially in this build…..use it on large jumps to troll zergs into jumping after you (you have 22k ish hp with this build) when they see you at 50% hp on a jump…they need 23k+ to survive the same jump that puts you at 50%. also use it on small jumps….everytime u land (4-5sec reset) you get stealth…area blind….remove 2 conditions and a free setup for sneak attack…..in wvw / spvp there are so many small areas where you take lik 800 dmg for jumping down…now u take 400 and get several benefits from it. the biggest key to this build is patience….make sure you get the most of of every invis…time every attack….and place yourself but dont make it a pattern. this build can also run venom share just by switching utilities….so it doubles as 1 v x or works in zerg v zerg. the only nemesis to this build is d/p thief build as they drop condis….but IMO that build sux (although very fun/good at duels) it wont hodl up in big fights bc of fear…stuns….pulls/pushes and aoe dmg…..but in that same respect the d/p build u prolly wont beat…..wont beat you either. guardians are slow killing….but they WILL go down after the 25 sec mark in a fight they run out of gas usually. lil tip as when u run out of utilities….. dont forget to use the mosquitos etc the small creatures to go invis on or steal to to get away etc. if all u have is 6 intiaitve and steal left use CND…then quicklly press steal to finish the CND at your target…..its quick and rarely misses plus invis/blind/remove condis etc. also on stomps u have 2 choices when u 100% need to get that stomp off….use daggerstorm then roll out of it (lets u keep 8 secs stability) then stomp…OR trickier yet…make sure u always try CND then stomp as the blind usually blocks there KD or pushback. one trickier yet….is press F to stomp…then shadowstep away then shadow return right before it finishes and you wont be able to be stopped……if its a thief….just F then steal to wherever they teleport to. enjoy the build if u have any questions contact me in game.

this is what i wrote for my guild since i dont have video recorder yet. hope it helps :P

many thieves would be ok , including me, not playing with any invis….however i doubt we will get compensated for it if it is taken/nerfed. that is the problem. 20 nerfs and we finally just got a small boost….that being the boon steals on a build that is mediocre and not played much.

stealth attack has no cost…….this is why i keep explaining :P there is no cost upon a successful hit. there is a resulting “condition” the resulting condition of a successful stealth attack is “revealed” ……stealth attacks have no cost….just a qualifying state to activate/attack. attack skills 2-5 have a cost (initiative) because it is depleted and used.

on the 2nd part of your message i totally agree with you! for once….lol we SHOULDNT be so reliant on invis….but our healing…defense ….attacks….and condi removal are all connected to it….making any build that doesnt use it….well …just not as good or overall balanced. id rather be able to do a dodge..flip evade pow kick em in the jaw kinda build sometimes…..but not really an option bc base dmg is low …so without hidden killer or gonig GC….its really hard to put out that dmg that can kill and be evasive at same time. if anet upped base dmg like they suggested and maybe gave us 20% more armor (i mean we are medium armored right? yet we get hit harder than light armor classes) and maybe like a 10% boost in HP it would be amazing and help make thieves stealth….""nerfable"" ….this is coming from a thief player ;P

hrm…hence me asking how to make my own video above on colloxeous’s thread. i never hate. i give my opinion. help other players by suggestion weak poitns vs strong points. i even give the weakpoitns of my builds/ my ideas. being unbiased and attempting to be fair. mroe than i can say for most and that post u responded to was repsonding to a hate msg about me"being lucky" to do a successful CnD. he made a point..then me counterpoint. not sure anyone woudl like my videos anyway. i dont roam as much as i like to help my guild/zerg/server

bc people who hate thieves….dont play them. and then when a good thief comes by and does well (bc thieves are ONLY good when good players play them) they say he beat me 1 v 1 or 1 v 2 and thats not fair blah blah blah like 1v1 is the messiah match of making a hierarchy of skilled classes which thieves would be so whiningly put on top.

Ghostwolf.9863:

The thing is, backstab is the only powerful skill a backstab build has.
Warrior for instance can clunk out 3 times more damage by using all
of his weapon skills then what a thief can do with 1 backstab and heartseeker spam to 0 iniatiative.

Edit: was refering to GS warriors.

yeah and most NON thieves dont realize a GOOD thief hits BS about 50% of the time max.same with CND. an average thief maybe 40% and supar to bad much less. its not easy….dodges…..blinds….blocks …invul etc….running in different directions and etc. but to make it this much weaker by revealing in on non dmg attacks…. would ruin thieves to a point that nobody would play

so ur arguing that the game designers are idiots and made a mistake? or are you arguing that they didnt realize they did this or are you arguing that it shouldnt be this way even tho its obviously intended to be? im glad that you finally agree that intiatitive is a cost to use attacks 2-5….however stealth isnt a cost. its a qualifying condition that activates the ability to use stealth attacks. and as stealth reads you dont lose it unless you deal a successful hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth read this it may help. its this way bc you realize if u drop stealth on any attack …excluding wiffs….. then you weaking the ENTIRE thief by around 40% (estimating but def not far off) …..not just the backstab. granted your idea makes CnD stronger and tbh you can abuse CND by chaining it ….blocks….blind …invulnerability would thenactivate stealth and making it much harder…imagine that….just 5k dmg sometims 6k dmg…ill just chain it all day….i dont know bc of blinds….blocks etc. they made it this way bc its more balanced. its why they made stealth its own category….not just a regular/general buff that is different on different skills. every invis gives 3 seconds….its very generic and not skill specific. SR = 3 secs invis each pulse. kinda like the huge AOE blind that necros have per pulse. blinding powder 3 secs. CND 3 secs. HIS 3 secs. combo finisher 3 secs. etc etc. where as OTHER buffs are usually all different times depending on class….skill….weapon etc.

i have almost everythign i need for 2 incinterators….waiting for anet to change the way of getting them. its redic right now.

2 of them were scepter users right?

ahhhh. i run a similar one …atleast when i play s/d….i run 0 30 20 20 0 as i can run s/d and d/p at same time. gives me more options against more builds and better survivability with s/d against larger groups that know what they are doing.

i stopped the video at 5 mins. only targeting upscales 5 kills in a row is a really bad way to portray strength/efficacy in build. usually they have ground targeting and stun/cc instead of reviving the one guy thats downed. idk not picking on it just wanna see it against real players that might give a challenge.

how do you record anyway? i dont even have the program.

but you had to qualify that. so ….now basically thieves are wolves picking off the sick from the edge/rear of the herd? :/ if only picking on sick it must mean the burst cant handle the strong players anymore…..alot of undertones in here that agree with the thief community IMO>

i write in caps for emphasis on certain words too…..you can use italicized but i like to make mine loud with REAL emphasis …like that

what is this about/showing us?

d/d bs is the most rare build in the game :P just sayin

you dont understand the basics of thief. ask another they will tell you the same. DMG is what gives stealth on CND….and DMG is what removes stealth on BS. NOT blocking. initiative is a prerequisite cost for activating skills 2-5 …..where as a cooldown is a pos activation cost for using a skill that doesnt require anything. despite the skill causing dmg or not it still had a requisite to use. otherwise….there would be a refund for successfully connecting on a hit. and that would just be so silly :P

i cuold beat it without even using CND. but thats not the point….in a real fight id use CND anywhere….i run infiltrators and steal….thats 2 free CnDs. 2 sneak attacks is more than enough to get a thief with no condi removal to 25% hp. plus blind powder…..HiS….and SR…..thas 3 more sneak attacks plus just as many evades….poitn being the very vest s/d could volley for a draw bc of escapes and reclusive ways. its a 1 v 1 build….and 1 v1 builds shouldnt be used to baseline good/bad ways/builds of a thief. p/d is amazing too but falls apart in wvw bc of aoe dmg /fear n stuns etc etc. IMO running 10 in shadowarts for the condi removal is not even a choice for thieves. i run it in every build. plus the extra heal points help bc i most offten use heals like withdraw and heal while stealthed.

@ensign……speak it brotha lol…..and hitting a BS every 4 secs is insane…..would never happen but that just goes to show u how the sustained dmg of a thief isnt near warrior.

wookie.8934:

ITT: Thief complaining about warriors.

Nothing to see here, move along.

u missed their points i think…..i mean yes they complained about warriors but the deeper ideas totally bypassed ya :P its about thieves….not warriors……about how they dont fit their role anymore and others do even tho they are nto supposed to. its about thieves coming up short in the best at what they do without being boosted at their weakpoints for obvious nerfs. thats all. warriors are fine not asking for a nerf/change :P just asking for thief to have a role :P used to be burst dmg then bouncing. not anymore. so its a reconfiguring time.

condi builds own this….. good 1 v 1 i suppose against alot of builds…. but not in group play :P not fast enough to kill…..and no sustainable recovvery in hp or in condi removal. fun as hell tho. i play 0 30 20 20 0 and works alot better in larger group play…or i play 10 0 30 30 0 for p/d bleed invis escape build for zergs that i never die in but to each their own. fun to watch.

how twisted….“you lose the intiative if you fail CND?” lol u lose the initiative as its activated….not because it failed….and its the same if it lands. and its the difference in definition of buff. i guess everything that is"positive" in nature towards helping a character is a buff rather than a trait or background “boost” so lets divide it into 2 kinds of buffs……1 kind of buff can be removed/shortened/changed by outside interferenance……the other cannot be changed …dropped…or shortened by outside (enemy) interference. stealth….well it goes in with the ones that cant be. and like i said…..if hitting a block/invulnerability/aegis counts as a hit….CND would go off and give invis…..but bc it doesnt……… ew dont lose invis on hitting the same. It would ruin a thieves offense…defense…and heals/condi removal if made to be weak and easily affected. there are ways of removing thieves from stealth…..aegis/blocks is not one of them. stealth is affected by damage…..direct dmg…not misses or blocks….but by a knife going into an enemy ….on poking a shield. just the way it is. if it were to change it so bad players could beat even the best thieves….then even uncatchable trait (since ur not a thief ill explain that to u….it gives caltrops on dodges) would remove invis….making stealth builds impossible…same with traps….and etc . btw all classes have to pay something for activating skills ….cooldowns…..intiatitive….adrenaline….. something… despite failing or connecting.

warrior has the best running/sprint away skills in game….hard to call mobility into question as that is a combination of speed….sprint…and evasion. but running away….it goes warrios then thief/mes tied. the average backstab is 5.5k dmg…and thats IF and ONLY IF thieves are using hidden killer wtih an above average dmg build. without hidden killer BS averages around 2850 ish i would venture my guess. same with CND ……. but the thing about thes 2 skills is they barely if at all have a 50% average hit to miss ratio. thieves are having a hard time finding a place in group play. they still can do decently in 1 v 1 but in zerg/8v8 its hard to really contribute …..especially only being single target dmg builds……remember less dmg but more targets is always better in group play. so not only do thieves have maybe the 3rd or tied for 2nd highest DPS…..they have the worst defense….and the worst AOE dmg in game….and 2nd worse hp total. idk…..without that insane burst i dont see the trade off. stealth helps. but low hp…low defense….no invulnerability ….no real burst….no blocks….no dmg reduction….. just hardly seems to come relatively close to balancing for the stealth ability.

burst is dead. we now have combo builds like CND to BS or SHADOW SHOT to HS to BS…..no more burst builds :P imo burst is severawl skills stacked to bring insane dmg at the price of having nothing left for a while/term of recovery and low hp/low defense. now its low defense low hp…..less recovery and less dmg. good combo builds but only burst build belongs to mesmers now. :P

10k hp? yyyyyyyouch……good luck ….horrible build :P

swinsk.6410:

Looks like a lot of fun! I wish I could play atm but I’m still recovering from surgery.

me2….had my left wrist surgery on 5/1 :P can barely type

kittenzlenit.7648:

0 / 20 / 30 / 20 / 0 with Berserker Amu + Jewel is hands down the strongest S/D build imo

try it out jumper

0 30 20 20 0 is my personal preference….only …and i mean ONLY bc of hidden killer boosting the dmg so much on average.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Travlane… Stealth is a buff. Period.
All of those things that lose charges from counterplay enhance offensive, control, or survival capabilities. Which stealth also does. Everything else in the game is penalized for failure, especially when it’s because someone else forced them to fail.
But stealth is not.

buffs can be lengthened by traits….skills…..food….etc. not stealth. its in a category by itself…..kind of like stun…..or defiant…..or signet passives…..they can be viewed as buffs but really are just “buff like” ….as hard as it is to explain….. but even if u were 100% right….the fact that if u attack and get blocked and removes invis = stealth perma lock/half as usefull….affects thieves defense….offense….heals…and evasion and condition removal by making stealth half as usefull.

now we know that if you do a Cloack and Dagger attack and its blocked you DO NOT get invis right? well its contact….blocked…but contact right? so if we dont do dmg and still invis gets removed….that means regardless of blocks it counts as a hit…..that means ur saying that conditions should apply to enemies regardless of dmg……invis should be applied on CND regardless of blocked or not……. well it cant be both ways…… maybe its better left as it is? :P

EDIT: also if u press 1 twice in a row its almost 2 seconds of time. u would have to use BS the first second after you go invis incase you m iss to use it again….super hard if osmebody is moving…..so you have 2 secs instead of 3 to land a bs WHILE they are moving……cmon….its a L2 kitten ue……BS/CND barely hit at a 50% success rate….im willing to bet its more around 40 % or so.

thieves dont have burst anymore tho….burst…in my opinion is more than a 2 strike combo……right now its CND to BS….mug is gone so idk if i would define burst as a 2 strike combo especially when each is a 50% success to hit rate. :P just me tho. only burst in game belongs to mesmers now.

stealth….is not a condition….a buff…..or a stance or w.e……its in its own category bc it needs to be treated different. if its not thief gameplay will fall apart…literally……dmg goes 50% less…..defense 50% less (guessing) all bc of stealth….our offense and defense relies on it so heavily that it if were to take a big hit it would affect EVERYTHING…..not just one…..defense…offense….utilities…..heals……condi removal….everythign would change. its so interwoven that u really cant put it in the same category and downgrade it to be removed on a bunch of extra “examples” its fine the way it is…..u would be suprised the changes it makes
a
anet isnt stupid….they wanted to downgrade eles a lot…guardians too….the did this with mobility debuff (which hurt but they can still spam skills for hours and heal/reduce dmg) so instead of taking away more to make it on par with other characters they left a lil to probability (basically if a few thieves are running s/x they can remove buffs) but its not 100% SO …. wont ruin eles but can ruin their day…maybe.

warriors have always had the highest dps melee aoe in game….thieves HAD the highest single target. now thieves are tied for 2nd/3rd with warriors even tho warriors deal more dmg by atleast double. speed of their gs is faster than our 1hs? wierd. dmg is higher too and targets up to 5 in 130 range. when mug was nerfed thief went from 1st on single target dps to 3rd.

thief is weak right now…fun to play….but not really a top kitten for pvp. mess with stealth and make it weaker(basically make thief defense weaker) and you destroy the thief….i highly doubt they will change this. if they do it will be on weapon skills blocks only i imagine.

Raze.8467:

I’d be happy if they just dropped or buffed tooth stab. 20 levels in and I’m just now getting used to stealing regularly, because the game kept turning me off to it by giving me this awful ability over and over.

Make it 4 or 5 stacks and ranged. And it doesn’t actually have to last a minute for no reason.

the fact it lasts a min is its downfall….crap dmg as for DPS…..and im sure it will be gone b4 about 10 secs are up.

devaking.2397:

Travlane.5948:

Henrik.7560:

To my opinion, even though I play a thief, the skills steal gives you is a little overpowered.
Necro: Fear
Ele: 10s chill… wtf?
Mesmer: Every boon for 10s… wtf?
Warrior: Axe whirl
Guardian: 3 or 4 second daze
The rest are fine, but the skills from ele and mes are way too OP…

pve maybe….in pvp….u know thief has low hp low defnse right? whirl? onlyu use this 1 v1 or u deeeeeeeeeead lol. lots of incoming dmg no way to dodge with whirl up. fear? slow cast….use it while invis…best to save allies from a stomp…decent not op at all. guardian 4 sec daze? vvvvvvvery nice…however less than 50% of these lands with a 1.25 second activation/use time…..it almost never hits and in meantime ur taking dmg…..mesmer boons? very nice….well worth it i wont say anything although 10 seconds of boon sis nice….its more for escaping / blocking BS bc ur invis half the time bc defense /hp sucks. ele chill? now this is strong. but also like the guardian daze….. rarely hits. go look at thief videos…;people usually (inclucing me) end up just wasting these to get rid of them so they can use steal asap again….the teleport gap closer is stronger than all the skills l isted…..seriously go watch some pro thief videos…..they really dont use em/connect with em ……thief steal blind for 3 secs is prolly my favorite……..gunk being the worst for pvp…..best for PVE…… i am a thief and would….in any moment trade for any other f mechanic. we have 45 sec recharge…..for ONE F skill…other classes have 4 and less of a CD. hrm….. they could def rework it so its fun/gives us more to play with. im not even asking for anythign powerful. but even just that str8 forward telport with no target would make it atleast a lil more worthwhile. and with the mug nerf its hould be on a 30 sec timer. minimum.

nobody stands in the whirl it does soooo much dmg and what do you have to fear from afar? it destroys projectiles

ur so not a thief….very obvious. ur right…nobody “stands in whirl” however…..if a thief whirls it leaves them at “crippled” speed and yes they do dmg but if they are at half hp they are usually dead unless they roll out….this is bc anyone can immobilize …stun….and kill you fast…..bc …u know…thieves have that low hp/defense and all. basically as i was saying you ahve to use whirl at 66% hp or higher ….OR…ur really takinga gamble…..maybe not as much 1 v 1 but there is no 1 v1 situations that matter. so in the perspective of being able to play in team/group play (hence the game named guild wars rather than hero wars or hero quest :P) the whirl isnt really a gr8 skill….its great on warrior…..much much better bc they have the hp/defense to stand there and deal dmg while taking it same time. also u can get close enough to deal dmg to whilr without getting hit by it….same as black powder shot. and if ur jsut trying to argue…be constructive dont just pick peopel apart….bc choose 1 out or 9 things i mentioned doesnt break a point.

lLobo.7960:

Sebrent.3625:

I don’t care whether KillingFrenzy or any of you can be Civil … that list I showed shows that this game is supposed to reward/punish you for good/bad play. Backstabbing someone who is blocking/dodging/has_aegis/etc. is bad play and you should be punished for it by being revealed.

I can’t help but notice people completely glazing past the list …

From the January 2013 Patch Notes:

My first toon was a thief, and after that I made a guardian…
I couldnt understand why guardians would not get their VoJ removed when something blocked/dodged/invul the attack. Even on GS auto-attack you get a second chance to hit something with the third attack if you miss!!
While on my thief, if I popped a skill on the wrong time, it goes to waste…

Stealth should not be removed on passive blocks/invuls, it should not be removed on misses/evadeds… on active blocks, yes… but I think thats not possible to distinct atm…

Oh yea… if you want to get on it…
Make skills cost (lass than) half initiative when they miss/block/invul…
Seems all other classes I play get less than half a CD when they screw something…

if u press an actual skill 1-5 to block sure i might agree w. that….but the programming says that its the same so far. i hera ya

lol well i did test what could happen…u could attack anyting on ground lvl…..but nothing higher like up a hill/ramp…was stuck on its own lvl. was def wierd looking. hsoul dhave taken more pix

if it wont remove the buff……then aegis = 100% protection from stealth? :p i see ur point but also dont forget…u screw with stealth …..thieves are removed from the game. period. i feel you i really do….and i see ur point. but cant make thieves any weaker….they go down in seconds as is. :P

shadowstep breaks stealth…idk y….but not shadow return or any of the eothers…..but yeah…what he said go back to ur spam ele :P

why do people still suggest steal as a finisher? is 800 dmg erally that “boom” got you now kind of deal closer? :P

well every class has blocks…..ever class other than thief. so even an aegis/block would lock thieves bs to less than 10% success. u really cant differentiate aegis from skill blocks…..im almost positive they are programmed eh same.

Henrik.7560:

To my opinion, even though I play a thief, the skills steal gives you is a little overpowered.
Necro: Fear
Ele: 10s chill… wtf?
Mesmer: Every boon for 10s… wtf?
Warrior: Axe whirl
Guardian: 3 or 4 second daze
The rest are fine, but the skills from ele and mes are way too OP…

pve maybe….in pvp….u know thief has low hp low defnse right? whirl? onlyu use this 1 v1 or u deeeeeeeeeead lol. lots of incoming dmg no way to dodge with whirl up. fear? slow cast….use it while invis…best to save allies from a stomp…decent not op at all. guardian 4 sec daze? vvvvvvvery nice…however less than 50% of these lands with a 1.25 second activation/use time…..it almost never hits and in meantime ur taking dmg…..mesmer boons? very nice….well worth it i wont say anything although 10 seconds of boon sis nice….its more for escaping / blocking BS bc ur invis half the time bc defense /hp sucks. ele chill? now this is strong. but also like the guardian daze….. rarely hits. go look at thief videos…;people usually (inclucing me) end up just wasting these to get rid of them so they can use steal asap again….the teleport gap closer is stronger than all the skills l isted…..seriously go watch some pro thief videos…..they really dont use em/connect with em ……thief steal blind for 3 secs is prolly my favorite……..gunk being the worst for pvp…..best for PVE…… i am a thief and would….in any moment trade for any other f mechanic. we have 45 sec recharge…..for ONE F skill…other classes have 4 and less of a CD. hrm….. they could def rework it so its fun/gives us more to play with. im not even asking for anythign powerful. but even just that str8 forward telport with no target would make it atleast a lil more worthwhile. and with the mug nerf its hould be on a 30 sec timer. minimum.

@ASOMAL perhaps….but thieves rarely beat good guardians now if at all…..that would just make it a lock,.

stealth is ONLY removed by owner when giving direct dmg to another player ….npc….or mob/target. this is the way it is. get over it. stealth would be useless if u attacked air and it ended. even as is less than 50% of BS hits….u wanna make it 10%?