i have dreamer and about to make bolt and incinerator….however i may wait til anet changes the way precursors are gotten. dreamer i wish i could sell now after the nerf :/
its usually 4 intiative as you get more total dmg with blowing it up before it lands. and he brought up an example on necros so i elaborated in a “different light” . i mean making necros look horrible is just a travesty. ive met great ones that were just sick 1 v 1 like gorath for example. and they are superb in a group as they spread dmg and conditions around. thieves cant do as much dmg as necros (collectively). if a thief hits 1 person for 1k a necro hits 5 for 600. not as strong in 1 v 1 but stronger in wvw/team play. hands down.
Necros are nearly horrible. They have some skills with are hated to some professions, but excluding those cases, they are overall horrible. You just want to take a look to their traits to get an idea. People who plays Necro and are actually effective with it either are 10x better or they are playing the right counter to the build you are running. Anyway, we don’t want to talk about Necros here, right?
You don’t want to explode your cluster bomb, you won’t trigger the blast finisher. I sometimes like to run around with shortbow blast finishing in every field I see. You have no idea how useful I am. Unloading all my initiative in a Fire field means 15+ stacks of might on 5 people, which is an HUGE damage boost. Same applies to Water fields, light fields or smoke fields. Blast finishing into them is an huge support to your team and thief is the only profession capable to do so thanks to the initiative system. You are underrating this feature quite much.
To answer the resting part of your reasoning, I’ll just link you a video.
Keep in mind that most of the skill/traits used in this video did not get a nerf, so it can be still done today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OYniHrGqE
you used a video from dec 2012. culling was present…. :P
20 in shadow arts is like a staple for thief….run in all the best builds and like 80% of all builds in total.
That’s not true in pvp.
atleast 10 in shadow….or 15 for the extra second of invis. remove 2 conditions everytime you stealth? thats crazy good. its the best defensive skill or trait thieves have. plain and simple. to not take it is to make your build weaker. even if u dont rely on invis.
so i think these anti stealth traps were being implemented do to zergs running thru multiple/timed mesmer invis veils. i think it basically nerfing thief defense/offense is like collateral dmg. in other words i dont believe its intentionally targeted at thieves as they really cant do mass invis like mesmer and its not like thieves are causing and real problems when taking a keep/tower/camp etc….nothing op anyway.
im not a sad kid with icecream dropped. no not at all. ive stated facts :P i mean cmon necro is WAY better than thief in zerg fights…imean SOOO much better. all his skills are AOE and affect alot of people with multiple condis…. and on a pulse at that. plus regular attack skills. now a thief only affects 1 target….other than his caltrops skills which is really good but only used in p/d bleed build. venom share is the best thing a thief can do in zerg play. simple. and stealth is the only defense a thief really has other than a few evades that are never used really (excluding endurance bc we all have that)
in a debate always bring examples or facts to the table and not say “awww spilt your milk” or "well you are wrong that thieves are worse than necros in zergs bc i say so " :P back it up. if u have that opinion thats fine thats great just bring something to the table to go with it. kind of bland :P
Unless you’re losing. If you enter into a fight with a necro you have two choices: 1) Win 2) Die. . .which sounds romantic to say it, but really a necro is pretty much a mobile goth engi turret.
“But necros have a second health bar”
Which means you get stabbed for 25-50% longer, but it doesn’t amount to anything (see: warrior) since you have no escape options. There’s no leap finishers or stealth to rely on, one skill that teleports you to a target and two that return you to your original location. Necros also have no access to vigor and stability (which thieves don’t either, but devs have stated an intention to make Necros a meaty, frontline-type profession) only through plague form (an elite transformation on a long cooldown) which ends when the skill does. Necros have more interesting aoe tricks to use, but in the thick of a zerg fight, it’s unlikely you’ll get to use them because cc’s are as rampant as anything else.
Thieves have access to: vigor, endurance discount, leaps, reticle-targeted teleports, and stealth. I understand spamming trick shot/cluster/poison into a crowd isn’t as glamorous, but it tags just as many bodies and in the event things go south, you have more to do than run away 25% faster and hope your 1-second fear on your 30-ish-second cooldown Reaper’s Mark will distract them long enough to waypoint. (Spoiler: it doesn’t)
A thief’s toughness line improves the thief’s passive ability to stealth which can buff, cleanse and heal as he/she escapes combat. The first passive creates a smoke bomb which blinds and stealths
A necro’s toughness line summons a dying minion and improves minion strength, but not necessarily the necro. For many specs, the first two major traits are spent on staff offensively. There aren’t a lot of options.
A thief’s vitality line also improves evasion, which gives an endurance discount and can be used to self-buff and escape cc condi’s.
A necro’s vitality line improves life drain, which can’t be used to disengage combat and can’t outheal zerg focus.
listen dont get it twisted im not saying necros are godly and thieves suck. they each have a niche. necros are much better in larger group settings and thieves in a smaller more settled/controlled setting. necros are mostly AOE kind of characters….thieves are usually 1 targeted kind of characters. aoe is less dmg but more control….and the opposite for thieves. they are both different classes but since 8v8 and 50 v 50 and 100 v 100 and 20 v 20 all have important roles in this game…it leaves somethign to be desired to say the least. but bc thieves are very good at duels and win more often than not doesnt mean they need to be nerfed. Its not like the can go pick on any character and boom insta death them and not be dying afterwards…..so thief is alot to be desired on the larger group/fight settings and peopl wanna nerf them in the smaller 1 v 1 setting bc they are very hard to deal with…which is true.
@sorrow….stopped watching the video at 3 mins bc it only chose upscales…. typical thief vid. but yeah i get ur point that said and put aside tho. yes a thief can stay on the outskirts…like ive been saying on several threads and pick off the weak sheep. idk just not a viable build for group play to me. 90% of the zerg was ignoring him as he was 3 hitting upscales …..happens to me too. soon as they turn their attention you have to high tail it out. thats why i like my other build (in my opinion) bc you dont have to.
ok its 2 diff kinds of stealth…they even LOOK different when applied. any ground targeting skill are not made to be able to run into and out of or over and thru etc. shadow refuge is the only skill in the game that stacks stealth by itslef and that was my point. blinding powder….aoe fields to leap or blast finish giving aoe stealth…….hide in shadows….these are so different in effect to the mesmers stealth….thief clicks a button and just has it….a mesmer must set up.
ive seen this before and being a thief that does all the tricks out there….this usually sounds like a hacker. there is no way a CND troller is taking out siege against 20 people. aint happening. ive seen space hacks…speed hacks….invis hacks….and cross class skill hacks….even a dmg hack once.
Have you seen what I mention? Or did the guy have some crazy insane Aussie lag?
there is incredible lag going on …and it seems to be server based right now…but its usually skill lag and not visually based. if it seems off and somethign you never see even by the best thieves….its more often then not hacking. i experience one hacker every couple to few weeks at the extremem most…. seems anet has been cleaning up. so yeah if its only 1 person and hes trolling one area and seems impossible and not a CND troller (even a cnd troller would take 30 mins to kill a siege equip if they didnt aoe the area around it) then its more than likely a hacker. the best thieves go for kills….not just trolling….doesnt make sense
ive seen this before and being a thief that does all the tricks out there….this usually sounds like a hacker. there is no way a CND troller is taking out siege against 20 people. aint happening. ive seen space hacks…speed hacks….invis hacks….and cross class skill hacks….even a dmg hack once.
EDIT: let me qualify this and say that it is extremely rare as these people are easy for anet to spot after being reported….. just report for botting and they will be banned. no worries. alot of them are low lvl thieves on throw away accounts just so they can have fun for a while.
im saying that SR is on a pulse and its the only skill that (by itself) stacks stealth. mesmer and thief stealths are 2 different kinds of stealth. if you stand in a blackpowder or w.e. and blast finish its a combo skill that can stack it. viels and ground targeting skills of the like wont stack…just like the ones that give swiftness. a mesmer cant create these fields like thieves and hence why they cant stack stealth. but that is purposeful and quite intentional as why would they allow a mesmer to stay invis as long as a thief when it has 20k hp on its strong builds and creates 4 clones / phants in a moments notice ….it would be crazy and you would never beat a mesmer.
lokheit…. the main problem is that thieves are literally the worst in many areas of the game. PVE…..defense…hp pools….boons…blocks…invulnerabilties…..base dmg……. the tradeoff (why we played thief) was good mobility (2nd or tied for 2nd best) and for the highest dmg(now in 3rd overall) which came at the risk of being killed fast/easy …basically making thief class more inclined to be played by pro/experienced players.
allow me to make a chart here to try explain the overall picture that we “feel” . there are 8 classes so each “topic” will be rated 1 (best) down to 8(worst ). ill just compare to to explain INV is invulnerability AD is area dmg(melee or range depending on class) STD is single target dmg CD is conditions dmg(yes thief can make em bleed but its abaout total conditions and dmg) let me also qualify that mobility is more than just moving in combat but also sprinting or catching up…..i know ill get flack for putting thieves 2nd there but ill put a 100g bet to anyone that wants to take it that warriors can get away from thieves without a chance of being paralleled.
do your own chart with your own areas and try be as unbiased and define each as you go then see what you come up with for classes. im willing to bet that thief and ranger are worst followed by engineer. top being mesmers warriors and eles and then followed by guards/necros.
this is rough/my opinion it may not be perfect however im sure its not too far off. but as you can see there is a huge swing between both
really dissapointed. i just dont know how they are going to implement this ….best ccase its high in supply to use it…worst case its not supply at all. people QQ at roamers bc its all thieves really excell at. yeah they can contribute but not like other classes in zerg/guilds/8v8+ scenarios. this is going to make them stay away from larger groups even more…..blowing up their whole class mechanic :///
d/p can stack stealth yes but he was saying that other single skills could do what shadow refuge can. d/p can do it “combining” two skills 1)black powder shot’s blind field 2)HS leap finisher. shadow refuge stacks stealth by itself. it stemmed from mesmers not being able to do what thieves do….but its bc of their mechanics….their skills arent made like thieves(SR). if a mesmer had 3-4 stealths on skill bar yes im sure it would stack.
nice to here a new thief players opinion. but gotta say you are way off. i run 0 0 30 30 10 on my bleed thief with 22k hp. he is still squishy as *#@! . thats running power vitality condition armor so even regular attacks should be doing dmg right? wrong. thieves have actually a pretty low base dmg amount….however with its 30 30 0 0 10 it does go thru the roof making defense twice as fragile. hence why anet said they wanna increase thiefs base damage so they can do dmg without having to invest in only attack traits (straight out of the devs mouth on camera). So that fact is undeniable :P s/d , when built/traited right, is a very good dueling set and sure you can get out of situations but it also takes a good while to down somebody with that unless going full zerk which means death in larger fights. Have you see any videos on youtube? if you have you might notice that 99.9999999999999999999999999 % of them are all trolling for upscales or doing 1 v 1 s and 1 v 2s maybe a very rare 1 v 3 scenario. yet ive seen dozens of other videos of guardians and necros / mesmers in fights that are much larger. this isnt some conspiracy ….its due to the fact that thieves rely on stealth and in stealth u cant be near to many people as you will catch incidental aoes and stuns and fears and dmg etc. go find a video with somebody running 0 0 30 30 10 or osmething close….see how long it takes them to kill….sneak attack does 800 dmg. yes….the powerful stealth attack does 800 dmg….same with backstab…make 1k or 1100 on that tho. but still . just goes to show you how 30 points not in power/crit is devastating to thief. every good build runs atleast 20 in crit and atleast 20 in shadow arts.
i get you on that ….its a lil pride. they should implement a new system for scoring where invidvidual kills and kill streaks could add to the score somehow. then i would say…yeah thieves are too strong at roaming and are causing problem all over. if u wanna run solo ur gonna die. thief or not. just a matter of time b4 u get outnumbered. thief is good at 1 v 1 which has no place in guild wars 2……yet they suck horribly in zerg play….. what if they were traded. what if thief was doing like 4k dmg to everyone in an AOE skill? then did a 2 sec AOE stun with a 3 sec AOE immob at same time . yet they sucked at 1 v 1/? would u still cry? yes….lose lose situation for thieves. just erase them…its the only way QQrs will smile. babies :P im an amazing thief at S/D P/D and D/P…..but even i lose 1 v 1s to great players. it happens.
we are stat wise one if not the worst in game. however even without stealth people would ask for a nerf on infiltrators step and anet will cave and do it as they have for the past 20 nerfs. its not going to end and the community is getting fed up.
According to arena net we are supposed to be the most mobile class in the game and yet we are the third most mobile class in the game behind ele’s and mes’s
Stop doing drugs. No class in the game even comes close to a Thief’s mobility, let alone a mesmer. Warriors and Eles can have similar “burst” mobility, but in sheer “warping all over the place” or long distance running, nothing beats a Thief.
I’m pretty sure OP is talking about in combat mobility. In that case, it stands truth for the mesmer, partially…
You are correct sir.
both wrong.
In-fight mobility = thief is champ
in run away race = warrior is champ
this is just not up for debate bc its obvious. if you can to challenge a race. bring 100g and we will bet who is best/faster i really hope somebody takes this bet!
You guys are missing an even more obvious effect, assuming it pulles out out of stealth, our stealth moves will also be stripped from us. That like, taking away an attack from another class
this is just cheap and a game ruiner…so many are goign to quit. watch :P
thief will lose backstab….heals….condi removal…blinds….sneak attack….tactical strike….surprise shot…intiative regen….health regen…
so unless they can add all this stuff into another thief mechanic (and only 1 so its usable) its going to be a showstopper for thieves.
thief is very powerful 1 v 1 but not so much that you have to destroy them. they owe us these promised “buffs” now for like what ? 3-4 months? our defense is horrendous. im ok with it as is but def need a little more dmg or good aoe dmg. if u add that then i think thief is fine. if u go play a really good mesmer….they will now kill you much faster than a thief. thats guaranteed. first the thief is too strong. then invis is too good. then LS is too good. then stealth needs to go. i understand its annoying to fight a thief. but even thieves fight thieves so we all deal with it. just bc u can go stealth doesnt make it any easier to hit somebody in stealth. and one class is always in any game going to be a lil better than the rest at 1 v 1. if u try to make them all even at all parts the game is boring. if thief gets too much AOE dmg then just play any class they would all be the same. guardians are buff monsters….eles are spam freaks…..necros are condition stackers….thieves “were” burst kittens……its nice so you can pick what playstyle suits you.
have all the haters even thought about asking for their class to be buffed instead of a thief nerf? no….they just wanna ruin another class that they dont play.
the reason u cant cross gaps is bc its not a Line of sight movement system where you go from point A directly to point B. you go from point A to point B by traveling the surface area between. you do actually physically travel across the land.
not yelling at you sunflowers lol just ranting bc yes i agree thieves are very very good at 1 v 1 but who cares it doesnt change anythign. put a sign up or advertise the game RIGHT! its not a hero kind of game where it rrevolves around a player. it revolves around guilds and the power/organization behind them. its in the name for x sakes. bleh
WHO CARES ABOUT ROAMING!? IT CHANGES NOTHING! IF YOU GO IN A WVW SETTING WHERE YOU CAN FACE UP TO 150 ENEMIES WHY WOULD YOU TRAVEL ALONE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
GoD! a thief is good at 1 v 1 which matters nothing anywhere in the game and is SUPER TERRIBLE at group play. so lets make them super bad at group play AND super easy to defeat at 1 v 1 too? wtf is the point in this its stupid. plain and simple. im done playing if they mess this up. as a consumer and osmebody who spends money ont his game now and then….i expect a FULL rework of thieves if they do this. if not im moving to the next game no big deal. i mean i like my guardian too but not as much. i played monk in gw1 and assassin as backup. this game has no monks. so i was sad about that….thief was closest thign to assassin so i picked that thinking it my be fun and now its a joke.
some people think its the most amazing skill in the game. i think LS is too slow. i like FS though. its much improved. if we could keep LS for longer….and maybe use it at a good time when its more appropriate then i would lvoe it. but 5 seconds for LS makes you go quick quick use it use it! its going to dissapear and dictates playstyle too much for a 1/2 second activate and another 1/2 sec to recover. idk… not a huge fan. cool tho
if they wanna nerf….or make stealth weaker…whatever. BUFFS FIRST!
Increase thief base damage
Increase evades
Halve endurance used per dodge
Increase Hp pool
Increase base toughness
Give us boons
Balance weaponsets
increase sword speed
increase auto attack dmg on pistol
theres some ideas to try before nerfing stealth. or atleast both at the same time.
no actually d/p is my 2nd fav matched with s/d as backup. p/d i use most bc of wvw being my main spot. and again shadow refuge is the ONLY skill that can stack multiple stealth duration
I used it all the time on my P/D setup. It’s very useful for getting out of immobilizes when people are trying to gang on you. Also if you’re out of dodge and some guard is using whirl (or whatever) it’ll get you out of there and prevent that damage.
It’s not a gap closer, it’s a gap creator. Very very useful.
or like maybe 3-5 per map or something? just as long as it takes more than 2 people to make i think it might be workable. i think the roamers are complainging about thieves and this fixes roaming…a little anyway. but you should never run solo anyway. even a thief should have a partner. solo runners are quite rare.
Size : 400 radius (same as swirling winds)
Cost: 25 supply
Effect: Remove Stealth on all characters withing area every 3 seconds for 3 minutes.
would something like this be ok? its enough so that one person cant do it and big enough so its not OP but also effective enough inside any tower and most “cappable” areas.
@ travlane: Each person you killed was 10 to 15 supply that did not get to a point it could have been used. Each one was also someone that could not bolster a zerg, identify a sneak attack by your server, harass your reinforcements, cap guards, dolyaks, and camps, etc.
I was highly amused to see you be a pistol dagger thief, though way to not just use 1 and 5 :-p I loved watching you shoot the other thief multiple times with sneak attack while they daggerstormed it back at you.
Anyone who thinks thieves are bad in organized group play is fooling themselves. When we do organized roaming, we have Rangers or Elementalists drop a water field in the middle of combat and thieves blast finisher in it to quickly heal up the group as he keep driving deeper into the enemy zerg we’re busting.
The thieves are also quite useful before fights when we’re might stacking (fire field) or swiftness stacking (lightning field from staff ele).
Thieves are quite versatile. I’d like to see them move more towards versatility and less troll-ish gankers with training wheels on top of training wheels.
u prolly didnt see my explanation of the vid from my other post but i have 1 hand right now as my left jsut got out of surgery from a body building incident. not much i could do hence me rolling 2 x and turning direction and invising to blow time . but anyway i still have yet to see any thieves with other builds in a VIDEO helping a zerg and not trolling outcasts or runners
thief stealth is one part yes. its also the only defense. nobody said it was the only facet of thief. but it is the only real defense we have.
0 blocks
0 invulnerability
0 protection
0 stability
2nd lowest Hp pool
squishiest class in game regardless of build
so stealth is the only defense. our healing…condition removal…blinds and attacks/get aways are all tied to it. its always been our only defense. well i guess you could say back when thief was op backstabbing for 20k….the best defense was a super strong offense. but after the nerfs we only have stealth. and yes it would be nice to have a choice between stealth and osmething else. seems the devs/ anet team is too busy nerfing rather than fixing :P
That’s not entirely true. We have access to Evade that is better than Block, and we have access to Blind that is better than Invulnerability. Our Dagger Storm deals damage, reflect projectile and stabilizes with 30s CD — in addition to stealth and shadow step.
So I have to disagree with everything you have said.
Vincent have you ever played thief? Every class has access to evade but it is true we do have better access. It is not better than block though as someone can block and still attack/be offensive whereas when someone is evading, they are dealing 0 dmg. Also, don’t forget, everyone has access to evade. It’s not a class mechanic. You also have to be active to be evading where which block, it’s usually just passive (mostly thinking about guardians here). Invulnerability is multiple hits where nothing can hurt you from any thing. Blinds only help you vs the few targets that might be affected while you’re still vulnerable to anything outside of the smoke field. Blind is also only 1 attack then it’s gone. You could have a 30s duration blind but after 1s it’s all gone. Dagger storm has a 90 second cd, not 30. The reflect is decent but it’s only a self reflect so it’s very selfish. At least with ele, they can give their self-reflect to the entire team, warrior self reflect also makes them basically invuln, engi self-reflect also has a knockback. The damage it does it pretty junk though. If you use it against a single target, you’ll be lucky to get 5 hits over the course of is entire duration. It’s really only good when you’re surrounded.
Also @ trav, thief has the lowest hp pool, not the 2nd lowest. Since all 3 light armor classes have good access to invulns and/or protection and 2/3 have higher hp pools, thief has the lowest defense in the game.
The only way to survive as long as other classes is to abuse evasion with the help of sigil or energy and a using all of our traits/utilities to spec for dodging. This can be a very strong troll build for surviving but you’ll be giving up a lot more than what most other classes need in order to survive just as well.
Do you play a thief? Don’t confuse “DODGE” with “EVADE”…and no…all classes DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO IT. You can damage while evading…
there are very few evade skills. all of which on attack for the 3 button( FS/DB/ and both shadow strike/shots) of these only FS is used in pvp. roll for initiative is nice but also 60 sec recharge(not getting much done in a big fight with this as its meant as a saving throw kind of skill).
next there is 2 things about evade skills is that each skill has an animation. there are 2 parts to each animation: the actual evade time and the animation time. for an evade to be effective the evade has to be longer than the residual animation time. lets take deathblossom as an example. Death blossom is a 1/4 second evade skill that has an animation time of around 1.15 seconds. this means you can only spam the skill basically once ever second. so out of the 1 second evade you only dodge 25% of it , and consequently the last 75% of the evade leaves you open to dmg. if it was 1/2 activate time like its supposed to be then it might be worth it. but for that 1/4 second you have to be absolutely perfect timing. many of the thieves evade skills are like this ….minus roll for intiative…that one is just darn good and hence the 60 sec CD. but with a 60 sec cooldown you cant really say that makes up for the lack of defense there of or qualify it as a reason to not count stealth as the only defense mech.
You see it in every profession forum. Whenever a counter(regardless of its strength) is implemented people rarely ever jump up and say “About kitten time. Finally something to spice things up.” Can you imagine how good it would feel to still beat somebody with an antistealth field? We also have no details on how these traps will function so it is way too early to be paniking.
And remember WvWvW is not balanced around 1v1s. Its about large scale tactical fights and right now A-Net is introducing more ways to perform said combat tactics. I’m sure in time more traps will be introduced so there really is no need to feel like this is thief only persecution.
The only thing anti stealth fields will promote is smarter gameplay and less cheese. So how about instead of moaning we either avoid dangerous situations like a smart assassin or outplay anti stealth opponents like a Dante must die hero.
From,
Somebody who likes to have a challenge.
the only stealth that a zerg uses is a veil from mesmers….if there is a problme with that skill then nerf/fix it. dont ruin thieves defense and offense in 1 shot. we have limited roles as is.
I"m gonna go with Mesmer, the vast majority of players will be to confused by clones to kill you, the rest them can still be delt with very well on a Mesmer.
Mesmer wouldn’t be so bad to deal with if killing the clones didn’t give such strong debuffs and condition pressure. It’s especially bad since almost any mesmer can put out 3 more clones near immediately after their original 3 (or 6 or 9) have been destroyed. Just not enough downtime sometimes for one to get their bearings.
very true and thief can only surprise a class with full burst attack if the class player is slow and not good. its easy to get out. cnd / bs miss more than 50% of the time so its a huge gamble…if d/d does go all out they literally go all out and if they kill the target or dont they have to get super lucky to stay alive if others are near by as they are now sitting ducks.
SEBERT SAID: “Compare this to a poor necro, probably the worst class for roaming, and they can’t escape from anything except their own grandmother … and that’s only if they cripple her first :-p”
so yeah a necro was def brought up in converation :P reread above posts.
being good at group fights is useless when enemy zerg is 3x bigger? 100% correct hence me saying guild/zerg is most important and the specs for those are very few for thieves…. when i said group play it was more 8 v 8 for tpvp/spvp :P.
im not a sad kid with icecream dropped. no not at all. ive stated facts :P i mean cmon necro is WAY better than thief in zerg fights…imean SOOO much better. all his skills are AOE and affect alot of people with multiple condis…. and on a pulse at that. plus regular attack skills. now a thief only affects 1 target….other than his caltrops skills which is really good but only used in p/d bleed build. venom share is the best thing a thief can do in zerg play. simple. and stealth is the only defense a thief really has other than a few evades that are never used really (excluding endurance bc we all have that)
in a debate always bring examples or facts to the table and not say “awww spilt your milk” or "well you are wrong that thieves are worse than necros in zergs bc i say so " :P back it up. if u have that opinion thats fine thats great just bring something to the table to go with it. kind of bland :P
I’ve already said what I think about the matter.
Also, don’t misunderstand what Sebrent said. It is pretty obvious that he brought the Necromancer into the topic just as an example, for argument’s sake, not to incentivate a comparison between the two professions.
What I said in my previous post is that Thieves, in individual play, which is present in ANY form of PvP, starting from WvWvW to s/tPvP are the best, while being also quite capable in group fights. For instance, Thieves have a blast finisher on a 3 initiative cost, which is worth any mark/AoE/well/condition etc Necromancer has in terms of group fights.
There is a reason because people who plays Thieves are that much.
its usually 4 intiative as you get more total dmg with blowing it up before it lands. and he brought up an example on necros so i elaborated in a “different light” . i mean making necros look horrible is just a travesty. ive met great ones that were just sick 1 v 1 like gorath for example. and they are superb in a group as they spread dmg and conditions around. thieves cant do as much dmg as necros (collectively). if a thief hits 1 person for 1k a necro hits 5 for 600. not as strong in 1 v 1 but stronger in wvw/team play. hands down.
they dumbed gw2 down from gw1. that is a fact. another fact is that they are business first kind of mentality….money = more players playing gw2. sooooooooo. if people quit b4 they learn how to counteer thieves…which is very possible…they lose potential money. this is the problem. the other problem is nubs on forums complaining and making people thing that 1 v 1 is sooooooooooo important. how about telling new wvw players ‘stay in groups’ or always have a buddy of the whole is larger than its individuals…meaning work with the zerg/guild to help your community/server world. the priorities are entirely in the wrong area….. if i am wrong plz rename the game to hero wars 2. thank you
i really hope somebody takes this bet!