Guild Wars 2

Shadowskill.9852:

Sebrent.3625:

Travlane.5948:

Sebrent.3625:

Travlane.5948:

Sebrent.3625:

Here’s the problem with your “challenge”, travlane. You won’t be trying to actually fight them, you’ll be simply trying to “not die to make your point”.

If the point in this game was to run from people, Norn would be the most OP race in the game (Snow Leopard represent!).

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@Dasorine: other classes can suffer from those very same latency/technical issues. However they are punished for wasting abilities when blind, dodged, blocked, etc.

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I don’t think most thieves are OP … in fact, i think most are rubbish. However, I think their skill floor is ridiculously low (i.e. lowest in the game) due to the fact that they have “training wheels” built-in where they don’t follow the same risk/reward mechanics the 7 other classes in the game adhere to.

no…it wouldnt matter….if my opponent isnt invis im not on the offensive anymore. so not really sure how thats relevant. and dying.losing.gettingdowned is of irrelevance tot he challenge. the challenge is to see how many backstabs actually hit the back when a player enemy is good. hence nobody taking my challenge bc they realize they will seriously prove a point against their theories

Yes it would. When a thief goes stealth against me, yes, I’m reacting so I don’t eat a backstab. However, I’m also reacting so that I can smash him in the face for the limited time he’ll be visible.

There is a big difference there compared to simply trying to not get backstabbed.

thats exactly what im going to do. im going to react when u go stealth. so plz take my challenge so i can prove to the forums that BS isnt op and shouldnt be on reveal. TAKE MY CHALLENGE lol :
heres the rules:
everytime you exit stealth—=—————1 failed attempt
everytime you miss—————-=—————1 failed attempt
everytime you get blocked-=—————1 failed attempt
everytime you facestab——-=—————1 failed attempt

lets see if u can get more than 1/5 backstab tries successfull

Travlane.5948:

tell you what. i wont even use a mesmer to hide behind clones…i wont even use a guardian so i can block/aegis/pushback or l.o.w. lol….i wont even use an engineer to use turrets…..i could go on… bottom line bs is fine the way it is…its a l2 kitten ue

No, it’s not exactly what you’re going to do. You’re not going to try to hit them for the win. You’re going to “win” by simply not fighting and avoiding.

If you are honestly tricked by mesmer clones, here are some tips:

• Clones attack slower than the real Mesmer
• Clones don’t have an offhand weapon equipped
• Clones only use the auto-attack
• Clones will only move to get you back in range and the movement will be only what is required to do that
• Clones don’t have sigil stacks
• When the Mesmer is not 100% hp, their freshly summoned clones are still summoned with a bar showing 100% hp
• Calling target can only be countered by stealth (which Mesmers have a limited amount, if any, of that varies by build).
• Clones don’t have food buffs
• Clones don’t have the boons their Mesmer does
• The only signet that shows up on both the Mesmer and their clones is the Signet of Illusions

Despite all those things, I still think they are great … Thieves would gripe.

As shown by the video, guardian aegis won’t do a thing.

All melee classes have some trouble against a good engineer due to their plethora of CC abilities. It’s one of the beautiful things the engineer community has pulled out of their bag of tricks.

If a Thief is targeted then goes into stealth. The clones will still follow the Thief and and perform whatever action you sent them to do. I 1v1 mesmers pretty often in Yaks Bend and can confirm 100% this happens.

Those things are pretty much fire and forget.

i think you mean the follow you after you are revealed right? they dont really follow you “while invised” or is that what actually meant?

Piola.3782:

Anti stealth Traps?!?!? What?
Fix the ridiculous D/P Black Powder Thief and we’re ok…
We don’t need this traps!

even i say that black powder needs to be shaved off a little: some ideas are as follows but not including everything….either just 1 or amixture there of.

1) Shorten BPS pulse to 2 seconds in total.
2) Make the projectile from BS not blind
3) make the BPS diameter 2x larger but only pulse 1 second
4) add 1 initiative

or like i said before a humming red glow silhoutted around us or something

yeah there has to be revealed. but these “:traps” IMO should not cause revealed. maybe a 1/4 stun at most.

tell you what. i wont even use a mesmer to hide behind clones…i wont even use a guardian so i can block/aegis/pushback or l.o.w. lol….i wont even use an engineer to use turrets…..i could go on… bottom line bs is fine the way it is…its a l2 kitten ue

Sebrent.3625:

Travlane.5948:

Sebrent.3625:

Here’s the problem with your “challenge”, travlane. You won’t be trying to actually fight them, you’ll be simply trying to “not die to make your point”.

If the point in this game was to run from people, Norn would be the most OP race in the game (Snow Leopard represent!).

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@Dasorine: other classes can suffer from those very same latency/technical issues. However they are punished for wasting abilities when blind, dodged, blocked, etc.

---

I don’t think most thieves are OP … in fact, i think most are rubbish. However, I think their skill floor is ridiculously low (i.e. lowest in the game) due to the fact that they have “training wheels” built-in where they don’t follow the same risk/reward mechanics the 7 other classes in the game adhere to.

no…it wouldnt matter….if my opponent isnt invis im not on the offensive anymore. so not really sure how thats relevant. and dying.losing.gettingdowned is of irrelevance tot he challenge. the challenge is to see how many backstabs actually hit the back when a player enemy is good. hence nobody taking my challenge bc they realize they will seriously prove a point against their theories

Yes it would. When a thief goes stealth against me, yes, I’m reacting so I don’t eat a backstab. However, I’m also reacting so that I can smash him in the face for the limited time he’ll be visible.

There is a big difference there compared to simply trying to not get backstabbed.

thats exactly what im going to do. im going to react when u go stealth. so plz take my challenge so i can prove to the forums that BS isnt op and shouldnt be on reveal. TAKE MY CHALLENGE lol :
heres the rules:
everytime you exit stealth—=—————1 failed attempt
everytime you miss—————-=—————1 failed attempt
everytime you get blocked-=—————1 failed attempt
everytime you facestab——-=—————1 failed attempt

lets see if u can get more than 1/5 backstab tries successfull

compensation? where is thieves compensation for the last 27 nerfs? thats another losing argument

@seb Do you think BS should be around 8% success rate? answer that plz?
if your answer is no then they should not get revealed on a miss. period.
i see nobody has taken me up on my challenge. so this conversation really should be over or are there any takers?

ps obv a bad player doesnt know how to get a thief out of d/p invis.
HINT: the key lies next to the blind field :P heeh

seems like its the same 3-4 people trolling thief forums as usual. the plethora of skills i poitned out were like 20% weapon skills. the rest were utilities or effects of F mechanics and elites etc

the only AOE dmg skill a thief has is CLUSTER BOMB the rest are all conditions. nice try tho i like the effort. if u wanna play like that i can add in another 20 necro skills that are aoe conditions. i didnt choose those i only chose the ones with direct dmg. but i bet you looked at them and noticed that? i dont half -a** things.

and again i ask you for examples how how a thief can not be predictable so i wouldnt bash your statement up front and give you a chance to elaborate. but you didnt. hence a thief kinda being forced to rinse and repeat the same combos til it works. only s/d has enough combinations with utilities to keep em guessing.

Sebrent.3625:

Here’s the problem with your “challenge”, travlane. You won’t be trying to actually fight them, you’ll be simply trying to “not die to make your point”.

If the point in this game was to run from people, Norn would be the most OP race in the game (Snow Leopard represent!).

---

@Dasorine: other classes can suffer from those very same latency/technical issues. However they are punished for wasting abilities when blind, dodged, blocked, etc.

---

I don’t think most thieves are OP … in fact, i think most are rubbish. However, I think their skill floor is ridiculously low (i.e. lowest in the game) due to the fact that they have “training wheels” built-in where they don’t follow the same risk/reward mechanics the 7 other classes in the game adhere to.

no…it wouldnt matter….if my opponent isnt invis im not on the offensive anymore. so not really sure how thats relevant. and dying.losing.gettingdowned is of irrelevance tot he challenge. the challenge is to see how many backstabs actually hit the back when a player enemy is good. hence nobody taking my challenge bc they realize they will seriously prove a point against their theories

TooBz.3065:

This is a terrible idea. For one thing, this would completely break the stealth at 25% trait (it’s already broken but this would be terrible).

of they put it at 10% hp it would work better. maybe 15%. by then ur gonna die almost anyway so its a saving throw.

Dasorine.1964:

but there is a bit of an issue all around with that, for starters I don’t think the game can actually tell the difference between an active block and an aegis (which is probably why it works how it currently does on those).

Then you have what counts as a miss and what counts as an evade, its a lot more obviously able to work that out as shown by the fact they put in specific changes to certain skills to allow them to work that way, but at some point this complaint will pop up again but only now its “omg why can a thief spam backstab until they hit when my hundred blades can’t!!!1!” or some variation.

Personally I wouldn’t mind it giving revealed on a proper evade or an active block but with the game systems how they seem to be on top of ALL the other issues thieves actually experience against a competent opponent it currently would only make us weaker and preventing thieves ever being anything more than wvw 1v1 uplevel stompers.

And again sebrent your comparing apples to oranges the mechanics are different they will always be different, if you feel this is unfair then your out of luck because there will always be different things working differently otherwise everyone may as well be one profession and have 1 skill.

ur right . it hink they are programmed the same.

heres the rules:

everytime you exit stealth—=—————1 failed attempt
everytime you miss—————-=—————1 failed attempt
everytime you get blocked-=—————1 failed attempt
everytime you facestab——-=—————1 failed attempt

:) think hard

yes you could surmise that i am saying l2p from my last comment. but we will leave that up to results?

i challenge ANYONE here to come fight me 1 v 1. the challenge is not to win. but to see your % of successful backstabs. you have to make a video uncut footage of you trying as we will not see you in stealth i owuld love to see your successful bs hit . then we come back to the forums and tell everyone ur around 20 im betting lol. anyone take me up on this?

id do it …but 8 thieves vs 8 thieves? (if im understanding right) is just a matchup of which team can best utilized black powder shot. :/

in the same way stealth mitigates dmg for theives its also dmg mitigation for the enemy….just another way of looking at it. so you could say thank you as an opponent ? yes a thief can move in to attack but soon as we do we are being hit with the enemys auto attack. and when BS hits at like what…30-35% success realistically per try…. :P a face stab is like 2300 dmg.

all that “upping” our base dmg would do is change the 2nd thief to do more . not the first.

randomfightfan.4091:

For the record, I, and no one else, ever said thief was bad. All I said is that we should be outclassed in the areas where we’re supposed to be the best. Thieves are supposed to have the best stealth, mobility, and single target burst. We have the best stealth, are back to 1st or 2nd with mobility, but still 3rd on burst. Just wanting those things brought back up considering all the things we have to sacrifice to perma stealth (can achieve it but you won’t be picking a fight any time soon) or high burst.

even anet said they wanna up our base dmg. for those non thieves that dont get it:
GIVEN: ALL= ZERK ARMR BERYL ORBS + ZERK ACCS+JEWELS(est below)

EX————-TRAITED———-AUTO ATTACK —-——DIFFERENCE

THIEF 1—-30 30 0 0 10——-1400 1400 3800——-PWR/CRIT/CRITDMG/CONDUR
THIEF 2—-0 0 30 30 10——-450 450 1400———-TOUGH/HP/HEAL/BOONDUR

auto attacks are rounded up as if each hit were 100% critical chance)*

if not a crit first two auto attacks on thief 2 are 250 dmg each. :/

gw1 hotjoins were ….usually amazing talent every match. always 1-2 bad players but atleast half of every match were very elitely skilled players..,, they dumbed down gw2 too much i think. let people be lazy and fall into 5 1 2 2 combos too repetitvely.

@blood. ur right it didnt get buffed. he may have gotten his numbers full zerk with stacks of might/bloodlust and enemy boss had 25 stacks of vulern etc etc etc . somethign of that nature yeah. but thats not a good place to base a “omg sword is godly dmg” type of post :P

rmBossa.4621:

Sebrent.3625:

• I do think a thief’s backstab missing because of blind, block, dodge-roll, etc. should reveal the thief. The backstab did not miss. It did “hit”, but was countered so that “hit” is transformed into an “evaded”, “blocked”, etc.

LMAO – i would never get hit by another backstab again. EVER

I already barely ever get touched by BS thieves as is.

This is yet another nerf that would lessen the viability of thieves in high end TPvP just to make all the lil boys n girls in hot join happy.

yeah. idk what other peoples problems are but no matter what class i play i barely and rarely ever get hit by BS. like i said it will drop to around 7-8% chance of a successfull backstab. and lets say crit chacne is 50% that means that 3.5-4% chance of a successful crit bs….lol….so fair right?

lets say 50% is the success for bs. (i think its more like 33% or less but hey ill be generous) now the amount of tries for BS is generally 2 per invis which is 2 per 4 seconds. then 3 seconds of reveal and 1-2seconds to re invis so in all its 2 bs attempts in a total of 9 seconds in a pristine/perfect scenario. now you cut that down to revealed on misses you are now looking at 1 attempt(lets say the first usually misses bc if there is 2 per 4 secs the first has to miss for a 2nd chance)….so now we have a 4 sec reveal after a 2 sec atack in invis …now ur getting beat on etc and u try to CND (granted it works) or you 5 2 2 for invis on d/p (granted they dont reveal you….. you ahve to heal up /play defensively longer to make up for the miss. so in all your dps is cut in half (minimum…most likely so much more.) and your incoming dmg is atleast 33% more. now this is all under the assumption that you arent CCd/aoed/blocked/KD or blinded and crippled. add in all the other variables and its a very dibilitating nerf all bc a l2 kitten ue. go look at a few videos of people fighting thieves….(not thieves videos) but of videos other people fighting against thieves……watch how many times they get bs. and dont go find the one video of a nub getting owned. its quite easy to avoid when u know how/when/where to do it.

so you wanna say that it averages 3 people? or lets up the scenario to a 40 v 40 thieves vs necros. i did 5 v 5 so you could easily comprehend the numbers and %’s . (not a dig its just easier for anyone). 5 v 5 was just low numbers and its easily divided/compared/ratio. realistically its minimum 25 v 25 when a fight happens. more often its 35-50 vs 35-50 on average ….and up to 100+. so yeah i think that more often than not AOES hit more than 3 targets. hence the conversation being about dmg in group fights. even if its only 8 v 8. lets say that it only hits 2 people. if the aoe dmg is half of what the thief single target dmg is they are even. wont even try to go into the fact that necro ice debilitates melee players or what timed fear chains do. or the fact that a necro has access to about idk 6x more hp than a thief. just talkign dmg here.

Shemsu.8721:

I like how you post a video about how great thief burst is, and the video uses both mug and haste, from before both have been nerfed by 50% or more. nice try but fail

this will happen months from now….“look what a thief can do” lol

Ralathar.7236:

Travlane.5948:

when i say horrendous….we have a 45 sec timer on an F mechanic that is no longer a huge dmg skill. boon ripping is never traited for as its more skill for a “lets deal dmg” kind of build even tho its in “condition” trait line. even if u steal them its a 45 sec recharge for probably …on average… a 5-6 sec boon.
2k dmg? pfft averages 800-1100 on average attack build. 2k would be full traited 10k hp kind of zerk build. might fury swift is good but again its more of a damage dealer still stuck in condi line.

Again someone is being selfish. It’s a bit weaker because it’s shared with your allies. It allows my thief to quite viably play support. With buff duration, the charr roar racial, and runes of altruism I can maintain permanent fury, and 2/3 uptime on swiftness, 6 stacks of might, and vigor on me and some allies. Plus whatever boons I steal spread to them (It’s funny to strip that other thief of his 15 stacks of might or his dagger storm stability), and more boons for me stolen from an enemy via sword/dagger.

Is it your typical damage build? Nope, I am damage/support and with wise stealing I can also provide regen via both stolen boons and F skills at will. I can also enable my team to take out problematic enemies like that guardian or ele who just lost their protection/swiftness/stability. Also makes me a better chaser for my team. The F-skills can be very nice too.

I understand that all you are worried about here is damage, but one of the prime reasons thief is in such a bad spot is because of exactly that kind of focus. This is exactly why the devs are trying to make them a more balanced class so they won’t be so easily countered.

my point on his 4k top end INSTANT dmg skill…. was that its not far of from the 6k mug dmg. but its not tweaked or downgraded…… so you cant really avoid a teleport dmg skill unless u are already mid roll :P so idk what u mean by not doing my job. nobody can respond at a -.01 sec response time.

Yeah but it ends there. That skills doesn’t do anything else and the guardian doesn’t have near the ability to escape thief does. They teleport into combat, and then they stay there. We can move in and out at will. That is a huge difference. Makes a great initiation, but remember that guardian has about the same HP and if built for damage can’t exactly take a beating. They go in to win the fight or die while a good thief lollercopters away from the lost fight.

and no matter how you look at it….added traits or not F Steal doesnt compare to any other classes F mechanics….

I’ll agree. But then I’ll also agree the same of warrior. Adrenaline moves are nice, but not up there with other F mechanics. Ranger’s is very hit and miss. Their pets are either good or worthless most of the time.

But whether our F mechanics are as good as other classes and whether thieves are good are two entirely different things. Thief is currently just fine, BUT they need more build variety. This is exactly what Anet believes too. Be patient and in time thief will be able to do more, as well as keep high damage as an option. But I highly suspect to achieve that it’ll mean less dependence on stealth and more in combat survivability.

i get you on some points but you say thief is in a troubling spot now and they can be easily countered bc they rely on dmg so much…… so many would disagree with you here (thief haters) …i dont. Yes warrior F mechanic isnt OP like some but u gotta compare teh cooldown times….its still better than thief bc of the attacks and also on a super short timer compared to our 45 secs. also sharing fury might swiftness 1 stack each is….cool but not really a “selfless” build. those are all offensive. look at a guardians f1 f2 f3. pick any one of them and they do more for a group then thieves steal. not whining but there is a huge gap. i think if they do what they say and make steal a single line teleport regardless of target….it would help.

nope. but we are strong in the parts that dont mtter and people want us nerfed again and again so we dont matter in anythign :P woah the truth :/

Sifu.6527:

Orpheus.7284:

The tooltip for sword autoattack has gone berserko…

and my actual attack numbers (pve) was 3.5k x 2, then crippling strike hitting 6.5k~7k with berserker gear and only 10 points in Deadly Arts…

Was there a hidden buff somewhere? or has it always been this powerful?
I know DPS wise its not THAT great as the autochain is quite slow, so its not much stronger than a pistol whip’s dps

My backstab does 1,000,000 damage to a bunny. So what? Stop posting numbers from killing lowbies…

yeah sorry it usually does like 1.5k per attack and 3500 max on 3rd. realistically with a decent bersker build and 15k hp to make it playable. if running a 0 30 20 20 0 or of sorts…its more like 1200 1200 2700 which zerk geawr. and im willing to say almost half of auto attacks miss if not sometimes more due to the incredibly slow speed of them. they are so slow you could dodge the first strike then roll dodge again on the 2nd and again on the 3rd. :P

Sebrent.3625:

travlane, take a look at how many of those AOEs can actually fit into a single necromancer build. They can only have 2 weapon sets, 1 heal, 3 utilities, and an elite.

Additionally, your list ignores how difficult it can be to make use of many of those AOEs like wells and putrid explosion.

Stop talking about things you don’t or barely understand.

i dont understand that necros can add in X aoe dmg skills and thieves can add in Y single target dmg skills and when y=x ….the quantity of dmg that x produces will ALWAYS be greater…… :P

Sebrent.3625:

Common one?
[Cloak & Dagger] -> [Steal (Mug)] -> [Backstab] -> [Heartseeker Spam]

You can easily see this all day every day.

Another common one?
[Heartseeker Spam] -> [Stealth] -> [Repeat]

Some more?
[Unload] -> [Repeat]

And this is a personal favorite when I’m running Mirror as my heal on my Mesmer
[Stealth] -> [Sneak Attack] -> Repeat

Do please note that that post was talking about bad thieves. They merely learn some combination of buttons (a rotation) and try it. They don’t adapt. This is why they die.

glad to see somebody giving auto points in an argument. well played. however, you say this is why they die (predictability) ….could u perhaps add in a few alternatives that work (proven) just as well? if not the argument would be null :P i mean if there is no choice u cant really call em bad thieves right? if they are forced to play a certain way.

sorrow.2364:

Travlane.5948:

@sorrow

Necro Aoe damage skills:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grim_Specter
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_Transfer
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Water
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Necrotic_Grasp
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feast
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frozen_Abyss
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Catch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Feast
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Putrid_Explosion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrosive_Poison_Cloud
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Locust
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Suffering
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Darkness
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Wind
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wave_of_Fear
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Mark
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mark_of_Blood
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilblains
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Swarm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Corruption
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Grasp
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crimson_Tide
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wicked_Spiral
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Feast
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Scythe
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Locust_Swarm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wail_of_Doom
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Touch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Enfeebling_Blood

so necros have little access to aoe dmg?

and im comparing dmg ignoring stuff like CC even tho that would help argument. necros are MUCH better in larger group play. bring facts when u come. not JUST opinions.

Listing all of AoE necros have won’t prove your point. I hope you bothered to read the skill effects before you listed them all. I’ve said that Necros have no reliable access to direct damaging AoE skill, that’s all. Never said they have poor access.

my point is they do have reliable. only a few of those are “marks/ground targeting” so even if it only says 275 dmg and a thieves is 450 per auto… i mean that 5 v 5 scenario is still a blow out :P each necro is doing 1375dmg total each per second and each thief is doing 450 :P ….. aoe dmg is always better/goign to out dmg single target dmg in an even match UNLESS that aoe dmg is LESS than 1/5th of the single target dmg.

Mathias.9657:

Play a thief then come back and realize how dumb this suggestion is… lol.

i gave u a +1. obv non thief trolls here. BS hits successsfully somewhere around 25-30% as is. yes thats right boys and girls around 25-30 % . now if u implement a miss = revealed. now we are talking around 5-8% successful hit which means you are dropping the intended best dmg class down to around 5th. pfft horrible idea. plz listen to mathias and go play a thief in pvp for a few weeks :P ull fail. Now i do understand that thieves are good in 1 v 1 scenarios although those are irrelevant in game i guess pride is the problem. this is also a l2 kitten ue. if ur getting slammed by BSs easily you are a bad player. im sorry but you are. the best thing you can do is hop on a thief and learn their movement inclinations and respond accordingly when u switch back. when i fight a thief (lets say in a 5 min battle) it MAY get hit once max by a backstab. id give u tips but i find most people, once in a certain mindset, have to wanna learn or will be resistant to being taught.

also: if you dont actually touch somebody why would it reveal you while ur invis….if u roll u make noise…shouldnt that revealed you too? what if i fire a cluster bomb in stealth and hit nobody….should that reveal me? it sounds more along the lines of a sore loser/bad player issue. thieves are like bees….swat them away/move or stand still and by annoyed/stung :P . i know they wont attack you in groups. i doubt you will go into a real jungle by yourself….why would you go on a warzone solo?

its near impossible to factor in stealth as mitigation as its pure chance/choice dmg. if u stay near the dmg is 100% if you run away its 0 or almost 0. everytime a thief stealths there is usually 1-2seconds they take dmg….after that its basically a choice to either keep fighting or take a break and try again. so as mitigation goes there isnt really mitigation when it comes to stealth….just a choice of to attack or fall back/try again when ready . i get what you mean…i mean if u go in stealth for 12 seconds ….5 people could do 150k dmg to you….but doesnt mean that you mitigated 150k…. its very hard to count it. a good guardian still rarely loses to a thief. i play thief as my main and guardian as my 2ndary.

there is only 2 skills that have positive evade times for thieves . Roll for initiative and withdraw. both roll backwards. in order for an evade attack to save from dmg it has to have an animation/recovery time less than the actual evade. for instance. death blossom takes about 1 second from leaving the ground to landing. the actual evade time is only 1/4 of a second. so you have 25% of the move evading and 75% of the move allowing you to take dmg/stopping you from dodging/invising etc. basicaly you avoid 1 attack you get hit by 1 attack and break even . thieves have the best IN COMBAT mobility and tied for 2nd best sprint/str8 distance speed. and again….while in stealth ur not doing dmg….and your not using CCs etc….while a guardian has block/aegis/retaliation/heals going on…hes still attacking. so factor that in too. thats a HUGE + for guardians.

anyway gnite all. gf eyeballin me

i only added 3 areas for the thief warrior comparison bc i was earlier talking about how thieves should have higher dmg than they have….even ANET agrees….or are they wrong too?

sorry they both are a 2 in the hp pool then :P still doesnt change the average enough to make a difference lol….if there was only 1 category…sure….yes thief ele and guardian all start with liek 10805 hp…but eles/guards can take dmg forever….a thief has none of the tools they have…hence stealth giving them a chance to get out.

you were talking about my question being rhetorical so how could it be as you meant it when it was me who said it? i literally meant it to be answered bc i didnt know what you were meaning….LITERALLY.

you will implore me as to why? implore means beg……i think you mean you will show me why in the thread.

thief and warrior are considered low bc they dont have enough control. warrior is still ahead unless its a 1 v 1 scenario as AOE dmg wont automatically own them….why?(now its rhetorical)….its bc they have higher hp and higher defense so they have more time to do damage.

HP does matter. theres anotehr way of looking at this too. let count BLOCKS/HEALS/PROTECTION/INVUL/TOUGHNESS as extra HP. if u count the higher toughness (which means less dmg per hit) its a much higher HP pool for guardians. all the blocks? more hp that they have instead of losing. heals? add them to the hp pool too. if looked at like this (plus minus ratio) the warrior has like 40k hp and the guardian around 125k hp. so the trade off for guardians low hp low DIRECT dmg is high dmg mitigation (basically added HP)

anything that targets stealth basically targets thieves…..no other class has TRUE access / reliance on it. only thieves. :P but we still have to wait . might be over reacting

now let me do thieves/warriors

CLASS——————ATTACK—————DEFENSE—————HP
WARR———————-9——————————9—————————10
THIEF————————9——————————5—————————-2

so if the stats are “roughly” rated like that IT DOES MATTER>….if HP DIDNT MATTER THEY WOULD GIVE THIEVES THE SAME AMOUNT lol…..cmon hp DOES matter

the question was not in the rhetoric sense. it was qualifying a term that needed it. it could have been player skill or class skills or traits . nvm anyway…. but i asked u to define “tanky” so we can avoid arguments that are about to follow.

a guardian actually has a pretty high DPS if u add in burning and retaliation damage … its hard bc its not direct dmg and depends on build/gear. lets put it this way ill categorize it into major areas and see why guardian is better overal 1 is the crappiest and 10 is the absoluet best it can be in game.

CLASS —HP--HEALS—DEFENSE—-DPS—-BOONS—-DMG MITIGATION

WAR——10——-5—————-8——————9————5———————6
GUARD—3——10—————10—————-6———-10——————-10

GUARD : total avg = 8
WARR: total avg =7

hence me giving warrior 45% win chance and guardian 55% its close but guardian should win by a little bit.

see what i mean whenu look at it in a mathematical sense?

yeah….so even with mug doing 6k….u are still dead :P you could do 100k with a burst…wont matter much.

equal player skill? hrm….. its a really close fight to be honest….i think guardian gets the edge 55-45

your grammar is ok but its tough to infer what you are trying to “get at” sometimes thats all. you are not bad but i figured u were not primarily English. not a dig….just hard to get what u mean. im not digging into you…u are ….80% of your messages are attacking me…even that other guy said something about it. not just me seeing it.

so back to business what do we define tanky as?

it might be your most proficient language but its not your first language.

about answering yoru question there needs to be a mutual agreement on “tankier” definition. and how hp isnt “underpowerd” im not sure what the 2nd part means

thought u said there was one in what you quoted on (which there wasnt)

the quote above the challenge to find a ? was ………

if ur going to ask me “this is getting kidna rediculous you keep on bringing up the hp values” …. i must say sorry….im not sure how to answer that :/

and i never asked….im not sure anyone did. other than you. which makes it irrelevant as you wouldnt need to type yourself an answer.

not being mean here so plz dont mistake my curiosity. you are bilingual right?

nope…no question mark in there or question without a question mark. i feel like im in a neverending wheres waldo ….trolled

OK …. has anyone noticed anything different about auto attack since the big patch with the larcenous strike added? i feel like its more aggressive/touchy/intelligent. before if you were in combat mode….dropped target then click on him again it would not activate auto attack. Lately i have been doing that and as long as im facing the person and in combat mode it attacks regardless…..just a very subtle difference or something of the sort i have noticed. something is def a lil different. what have you guys noticed?

@hexs srry which are you talking about? been so much going on in these threads lately.

as i mentioned well before you….. and to have an answer there needs to be a question…which i have not asked. hence my message having no ?’s and being all statements. :P oh wait u were answering your own question which i already answered in several msgs earlier.

if ur going to ask me “this is getting kidna rediculous you keep on bringing up the hp values” …. i must say sorry….im not sure how to answer that :/

id be happy with anything. steal by itself leaves much to be desired :/ dont think that stealing boons is a good idea but something that helps damage but not a huge burst so we dont get QQrs and f3 would be a short term poison like devourer venom for 1 sec or poison for 5 secs…something of that nature. nothing op but something to give us more facets as a class.

what do u mean grimwolf?

@teamkiller true but higher hp…higher armor..access to boons and blocks is the trade off.
but while a warrior is doing MOST of that he can stillb e on the offensive…a thief in stealth is still taking dmg (bc he still hast o be withing melee range to reapply stealth) if hes not hes running away to do the d/p combo. either way hes away and not doing dmg but possibly recieving some still which is very common.

thief defensive mode = no dmg but still receiving some
warrior defensive mode = still doing dmg and recieving some if not against thief.

its a trade off no matter how u look at it.