Guild Wars 2

Ok i will test it later during my guild raid on tier 2, but this is only to test it in a roaming sense. i wanted to see if this would work or rather how well it would work in a 1 v 1 fight and the implications obviously applied to roamers due to the low cost of only 10 supply which is generally always carried by all players at almost all times. how well would it work against a thief? lets find out. i wont say anything for or against as i would like to see what you guys think…..this is a random thief i met in tarnished coast and challenged him to a duel ! hehe .

well lemme put it this way. i think the WORST case scenario is when the ROAMERS use them. and theres plenty of them.

scenario: light fades in d/p thief is invis with 12 secs of stealth stacked……runs up to a poor unsuspecting thief cutting down a tree….plants an anti stealth next to him…..attacks with backstab…the thief rolls thru it….game over…… light fades out

AND CUT SCENE!

lol what do u think ?

thief is actually the worst leader as u are supposed to stay tight on the mark in mini map and on a full assault you follow the commander…..thief usually dies fast in frontal assault. plus the zip all over making it hard to follow. if a thief bought commander title…. pfft silly in my opinion. i see lots of warriors. the run hammer builds that are greta for knockdowns and blast finishers from the rear casters. u should see my guild BP or Tarnished coasts BT play. we have played 50 v 50s alot and in each one that we have played…..we didnt even have 1 downed player….thats pretty crazy if u think about it!!! not even 1 downed player. there are certain combos and ratios you need in a zerg to maxamize potential. i think we ran 3 thieves in our 50. blast finishers for the start and venom share a couple.

Ekemeister.8905:

What do I think about Anti-Stealth traps?
First, traps simply appease players without resolving the simple problem: thief class lacks multiple viable builds (only “Cloaked Ambush Rogue”). If it weren’t for backstab, I’d argue that hammer warrior is a better dps choice. The truth is that ambush build is too valuable due to its (near) monopoly over thief gameplay. Thus changes have too drastic an impact on thief gameplay.

Besides anti-stealth traps does not really affect Zerg vs. Zerg (WvW) since 1v1s don’t matter in that mode (1 person can’t cap a tower or keep). Thieves also only win 1v3s against zerglings who are newb to small scale fights. Hopefully, the zerglings are buying a lot of Molten Pickaxes so this nerf craze isn’t entirely pointless for everybody.

In the meantime, my beloved charr thief will collect dust unless i need to spend karma or thief class is actually balanced (hah!). That being said, I will continue to employ my current solution: make lv 80 alts and main another class!

yes the “invis rogue attack” thief is the number 1 type of builds for thieves….however i would like to say not only bc of backstab. but more than not bc of the defensive reasons.

AOE blinds on stealth
heals in stealth
regeneration on stealth
2 intiative per stealth
intiative regen in stealth
multiple condis removed on stealth
sets up special attacks (high dmg / daze / bleeds)
escape option
50% increase move
might on stealth

plus the obvious “you cant target me”…….those are much more important to a thief than backstab….. i am not downplaying BS im just saying its this that makes the build the best. even if backstab diddnt deal double it would still be the best thief build.

without invis…there is no other access to these traits other than one that procs after 60 secs…..and one that gives might but only for 5 secs….. both not really going to keep a build up and running long.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Travlane.5948:

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Melee bunker rangers in WvW have limitations of their build like any other. A good p/d thief can be a handful I would imagine. Will they kill the bunker ranger fast? No. they can be worn down. No shortage of CnD targets for a P/D thief to use in WvW. A good S/D thief can do it too.

a p/d thief is 100% dead if u catches a 30 sec reveal.

Ahh I see. So first one thief says “Some builds I can’t beat.” Once it’s pointed out there are builds that could counter unbeatable build… lay down the trap card. Well I suppose that’s a good way to completely evade the point I was trying to make. Fair enough.

..p/d is my favorite zerg build when i actually do end up zerging……its just as good for 1 v 2s and 1 v1s …only bad matchup is d/p…..and thats a draw for me. if u cant stealth for 30 secs….the ONLY thing a p/d thief can do is use skill 3 and hope the enemy is a warrior or a melee ranger

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Travlane.5948:

if thieves are so OP why does nobody grab thiefs in a zerg fight

And by that argument, if thieves are so kitten in WvW why are there so many in WvW? Thieves have no lack of representation in WvW in roaming or zerg warefare. I’ve seen more than a few thief commanders. We’ve got a few on my server as well as the servers we fight. If they’re so bad in zergs, why would I see thief commanders?

And I sure as heck see way more thieves in a zerg than I see Engineers.

thieves in wvw are played only for fun 90% of the time. i play thief as my main bc there is no monk in this game. when im in wvw on my thief …..9 out of 10 times im roaming. its fun. thats why. does it have any affect on score…guild….or server? nope. its fun tho. in zergs they run dagger storm if they survive long enough or just pre battle blast finishers which means they start each fight with 0 initiative :/.

idk about small servers but in big fights (as gw2 aimed for) its 50 v 50 to 130 v 130 ish. thieves have no chance in those. maybe in a smaller 15 v 15 or 20 v 20 a thief MAY squeeze in there and not get tripple targeted…. but generally the most important things to have are AOE necros healing eles KD warriors/stability/aegis/retal/guardians and mesmers for portal-anti range-clones -haste. even engies have good aoe! rangers have decent aoe and their pets soak up marks/dmg/targets.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Melee bunker rangers in WvW have limitations of their build like any other. A good p/d thief can be a handful I would imagine. Will they kill the bunker ranger fast? No. they can be worn down. No shortage of CnD targets for a P/D thief to use in WvW. A good S/D thief can do it too.

a p/d thief is 100% dead if u catches a 30 sec reveal.

stale.9785:

Kain Francois.4328:

How about a trap removing clones from mesmers, preventing warriors from gaining adrenline, disabled pet on ranger, and locking all the guardian virtues.

Yeah, this is pretty dumb. Why discriminate against such an important feature for a single class?

Because the feature is hopelessly broken. There’s a reason that 30% of the forums are people complaining about thieves. It’s not that everyone who doesn’t play one sucks, it’s that having invisibility on demand has no place in a multiplayer game.

Were stealth actually, you know, stealth, wherein someone paying attention could see you, that’d be different. As it is, it’s broken. I’d have personally fixed it differently – changed it so that the name doesn’t show up when you hold CTRL, and the character model is 50% translucent, but I’ll take this. Probably 99% of all my deaths in wvw are from thieves. This is not a L2P situation, this is a game design issue.

if 99% of ur deaths are from thief…than that means ur class is OP agianst every other class. …. so bsically what u said is thieves are balanced and have a place. OR if thats not true than your class is overpowering by far. every class has another class that trumps it. always. thieves are bad against mesmers and guardians. guardians are bad at necros and whatever. point is we all have classes we are bad against. if thieves are so OP why does nobody grab thiefs in a zerg fight (outside of pre battle blast finish buffing)…… they just dont stack up well in big fights which is 90% of wvw. thieves are good at roaming.

you want a real 99% fact? heres one: 99% of all complaints against thieves are about roaming thieve’s.

heres another fact. roaming has little to nothing to do with wvw other than personal fun. :P

that said thief has very little effect on wvw.

Zacchary.6183:

That build looks pretty solid. It seems like it requires a unique way to play in order for this build to be effective.

I am going to try to make a “Trick and Treat” PvP build with Scorpion Wire and Traps, along with a weapon setup like your friend’s. It seems that is the growing trend nowadays.

i used to test a build with scorp wire and tripwire. was ok but rquired enoughdmg to capitalize on the downed players. i used the build with daze on steal and s/d for daze but i ran blind powder rather than sig of agility. good defense and free daze

Sebrent.3625:

At the comment by Travlane that “most people use auto-targeting so heartseeker isn’t good mobility”…

… most “bad” players use it. Good players long ago understood that by turning it off, they could better leverage their skills the way they want. If someone wants to turn on something that restricts them, that is their choice, but it doesn’t diminish the viability of the skill.

true alot of bad players use it and overuse it. i personally barely touch the skill. i think i have used it on more downed players to finish em off than when they are up. auto targeting is VERY usefull when playing a thief. other than that its a hindrance :P so is it better to have it on or off? depends on how good you are at targeting/how you ahve key binds setup i suppose.

OK! I get where they are trying to go with this trap. However I can foresee there is going to be a lot of collateral damage (in respect to tactics and abilities).

FACT : This is NOT a stealth trap. It is a REVEALED TRAP. You don’t have to be in stealth to trigger it! This trap places 30 secs of reveal, regardless of stealth, on up to 20 players within range. Hence this is a REVEAL TRAP.

Too early, as of yet, to see where and when players use this and also how frequently.

I think it is overpowered mostly due to the fact that it gives you reveal regardless of using stealth. really does aim at the heart of thieves, because unfortunately our healing, regeneration, blinds, spike damage, initiative gain + regeneration, and also our defense is attached.

Also the other trap is 100 supply taken away from a zerg (5 per x 20 people if all hit) for only 10 supply. you could literally have a team of 10 just obliterate every zergs supply. or 10 teams of 5 per map just placing one infront of bay/hills/garrison at the very least….or go invis/invulerable and run out and drop them. idk so many ideas. have to see what happens. this one should prove interesting. its already very hard to siege a tower on t1 / t2 when there are people there to defend.

i suggested having a cleric/monk class on another forum….yes i know it would be close to guardian but a more aoe heal aoe blind aoe kd ray of judgement kinda character and maybe mass boons. anyway point is maybe it can make these battles last longer? i mean most zerg battles are what….like 15-20 seconds? alot of running and organizing for that short period of time. would be nice IMO to have a lil bit longer of battles….somwhere around 30-40 seconds. maybe the monnks could revive 3x faster with traits or something. idk just ideas.

im a number 1 trap hater on theives. however i will say tripwire has uses! even in wvw.

practice practice and patience, lots of it. getting excited and jumping the gun can and usually does = death in wvw/pvp. Also try not to get discouraged. alot of these video makers are very good however they are always better on video than they actually are bc they pick and choose all of there footage and filter out the deaths/losses/bad clips.

take note between video 4 (outnumbered) and video 5(outnumbered) there is a 1 month span. ask yourself how many GOOD fights did you have in the last month that you would put on video? im sure atleast a dozen? try keep it in perspective and practice alot. challenge yourself and dont overstep what you can do with your build or get overly aggressive.

disclaimer: i was not diggin at many of the good video makers but just trying to show its a highlight reel and not representative of overall success

@Seb you keep avoiding my question : ill ask again: what avg % is fair for a successful BS?

you are right it is relative to skill lvl ….so its a good thign we are talking about average or in general. pretend everyone is on the same lvl. i hardly think so many players are that much better going for 30% to 80% on successful backstabs on a target player. pft :P i wanna see 10 mins of fighting UNCUT ….nobody will do that either i bet. (not all upscales and nubs either as it skews with outliers)

the 45 min one is fake right?

edit OIC> they stack up on thief. cool

ok lets try swing this from me to another thief that is generically considered good ok?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKzHTFfi3mk
yishis latest video. i only watched like 2 mins so far but his backstabs i counted in those coupel of mins were 5 successful 17 fails. no in order to understand those stats i counted a successful backstab as obvious high dmg. a fail is a missed/blocked/aegis/dodged/hit a clone NPC random mob/or leaving steawlth without being able to get one off.

5 of 17. i could review the whole video if u like for a larger sample population. so if ur at 80% ur are the messiah of thieves and yishis is a noob? plz show an Uncut vidoe of 10-15 mins of fighting plz.

@Sebrent you say its not fair that a thief can use backstab two times in a row if the first misses (lets be real nobody can go 1 1 1 1 unless they just used shadow refuge and are really nubby :P). you are saying you want it to cause reveal and make stealth in the same category as other buffs i suppose. A) why do you want it to be the same as signets or buffs or etc when its obviously made to not be the same? Is this to make thieves easier to kill? i mean the real goal should be a balance in each profession….notice i didnt say a balance BETWEEN each profession.
lets take this one step at a time. i imagine you want balance right? lets pretend you said yes to this as it would be silly not to. now the next question you have to answer.

At what % of Back stab attempts should a thief be successful ? <——-plz answer.

this is the ONLY type of build i have not pesonally tried in wvw/pvp …..how does it fair?

also keep in mind that this is very strong 1 v 1 build but int he fray of a real battle….not having stealth….u can take a real beating.

vinceftw.5086:

I can’t stand S/D. Brb spamming 3. It’s literally nothing else.

forgot to add dodge rolls lol

Sunflowers.1729:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Thief is pretty kittening broken dude.

I would just like to add that the Thief in the video isn’t a particularly good player either (he’s not horrible, but not amazing either), so before everyone says ‘oh his enemies suck’…

Edit: You know what, before I get flamed, here is a list of things that he did wrong.

1) Using Shadow Refuge with the revealed debuff on him for ~2 more seconds.
2) Using Heartseeker in stealth with the enemy facing away (Shadow Shot is better, since it guarantees Backstab)
3) Using Shadow step’s part 2 skill halfway through the stomp (perhaps to avoid the ranger downed skill)

your eye is keep young grasshopper but not keen enough.

i didnt cast refuge while revealed. rewatch. i was eithe rmoved or pushed out of refuged intitally and restealthed me at last moment.

the shadow step stomp was used in response to a fear that was used to great space. i countred that and as i was stomping the ranger i still had it active and if u noticed he missed hs KD by me using return :P]… so it wasnt used to STOMP the ranger. i had return left over and used it to avoid KD+dmg

shadow shot is a gamble…. yes certain points i could have used it but IF and only IF it missed then im in the position where i dont know for sure i can catch up having wasted 4 intiative on a miss and still not any farther.

zoom in on the 4 on 45 . u can tell quite easily with a 10x zoom

pantsforbirds.9032:

I one shorted a shatter Mesmer with the cloak and dagger and mug combo with this build last night. I had 25 stacks of bloodlust on and it was probably the funniest thing ever. Unfortunately a warrior whirlwind attacked me and insta downed me, but it does make for some laughs

and thats why they wont nerf that build. just melts right after.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

scratches head

“There is no burst build anymore” “Here’s a build where I can do a 20k backstab” — said by the same person.

If a 18-20k backstab isn’t your idea of “burst” — you’ve lost perspective. Yea I get the whole “give up all defense to do it” part — but that’s true for any profession when trying to maximize damage — they always have to give up defense.

20k backstab is more of a spike dmg (meaning 1 shot) combo is lieka 2 shot. burst is like a 3-5 all within a very small window of time. so since quickness was nerfed and mug we lost the chance to really bang alot of in a small time. not saying thieves are weak or cant do dmgtho.

nice video: 2 comments.

Thief : switch out BV for thieves guild…only bc the first BV never works against mesmers in my opinion and alot in your video (2nd usuallydoes tho)

mesmer: your running in such a larger circle stay tigh if u can and keep those close close and shatter at the LS strike timing.

maybe yah. i think they will definitely add one….and def at or by the 1 year mark. new games will be coming out and they need to keep this game evolving and fresh. hope they do it

haha ….transform into the oppenents ally and come green for 20 seconds …would be some crazy kitten

coulda been 1.8 million i bet. 5 more stacks of bloodlust 20 stacks of might. and signet of malice.

Does QQ = defend your class? if so yes i am a 100% QQer :P.

Arganthium.5638:

Travlane.5948:

swinks…..there is no more burst. i can give you a signet build that can kill anyone in 2 hits…but ur usually dead right after. lemme know if u want it.

Don’t listen to him, he can be a pesky little QQ’er at times swinsk.

we have chatted several times in game. seem to have several similar views. well played hoss.

To all others: if you dig a monk what would you suggest as a role? if not what other kind of class would you suggest/?>

yeah ….80% of thief QQers are just QQing about problems that could be fixed by L2P. 20% are ones who know but still dont like us lol.

i meant races they didnt go as far….hence (classes) were mentioned prior.

iits not a guardian. its a cleric/healer/monk etc. i suggested more aoe dmg more aoe heals/buffs/blinds/burns/Kds. somethign healing more than a guardian …… necro has AOE blind pulse but doenst use it as much as other better marks….guardian has judges intervention….. im suggesting this bc usually zerg v zerg is about 15-20 secs before one wins and the other dies/splits and runs for the hills. they basically turn a huge battle into a quick skirmish as one guild is usually more organized than the others. my guild has had 50 v 50 battles and almost everytime we have 0 downed players and just steam roll the opponent guild. i mean just obliterate. these battles laste less than 8 seconds. there is a big gap in play strength from guild to guild or zerg to zerg. this would help lengthen the fights….. and also bring in revenue and keep the enviroment fresh and changing by adding in a new variable. i mean if you are going to be happy with this game for the next 2 years as is….well thats gr8 for you. id like to see a lil more diversity down the road. god knows we havent had any new lands/content. i mean a dungeon we got is cool but its not exactly more than a 20 min exploration expansion in the sense of running tip to tip. lot of that map is open too. havent had any new skills come in….as they are still balancing the ones we have. you act like im suggesting something outlandishly horrid. :P

Lightsbane.9012:

Teamkiller.4315:

Lightsbane.9012:

Travlane.5948:

horrible idea. you would have to up there total defense about 75% making it just under what a warrior is.

or you could stack vitality and toughness, like everyone else trying to counter this OP broken class.

OP broken class -_-

I would like to hear your reasoning on this?

Also travlane says things just as bad as what you just said so don’t think I’m singling you out. He’s just beyond hope.

because as a bunker engineer i’m still taking 6k backstabs. just how much armor do i need to reduce damage from a thief?

not sure if this will help you or not but is a pretty good engineer fighting good thief(s) …. anyway check it out. might help a lil.

Many MMORPGs through the rich history of MMORPGs have always ended up adding a new class or new race…(generally class). GW1 never went as far but then again it didnt have the aggressive advertising that GW2 had. So hopefully they add something new in to keep the game from going stale and allowing people to start from scratch and also spend more money on the game which i am quite sure they would like.

Question is: How many of you would like to see some sort of Monk class return to GW2?

I, for one played it in GW1 and loved the class. I notice in zerg play and large group play that all heck breaks loose and battles usually never last longer than 15 – 20seconds. its just a mash of aoes and stability/CC. spike dmg doesnt matter as much since aoe will always do more in these battles.

So, i was thinking they could make a monk class (yes i know they wanted to stray away from reliance on a heal class ..hence giving every class self heals). however i was thinking somethign SLIGHTLY more powerful in healing a group than a guardian and also add in ray of judgement…….lots of aoe protection …maybe a group invulnerability for 2 secs? give them medium armor. something like in the middle grounds of hp base pool. staff shield mace scepter focus. lots of blocks and fire damage and also lots of blinds. i think they could definately find and important niche withing wvw/pvp and pve community, especially with more content coming out and getting harder as it does!

what do you guys think and if it were added how would u implement them. details etc?

thief isnt broken. could use some polishing and some insight for QQers…. most classes need polishing tho … so :P

i run 0 30 20 20 0 and a mix of all bersker armor with beryl orbs and valkrye weapons with force daggers and berkser accs all ascneded ….the ones with the lil bit of vitality on them. i use s/d main and d/p for when it gets too hairy.

if people use it well against you and you are a thief then you just need more practice. mix it up. dodge thru the enemy then withdraw which will put u on his back for insta bs. if u go invis dont chase …just strafe left or right and let him reveal his back. try different things. theres a few videos all ov er online if u just watch the movements of enemies and you can respond accordingly. soon as you get your movements down pat it will be easier to respond/defend against other thieves backstabs. i always say i cant remember the last time i have been backstabbed. itll come. just keep trying. be patient too….rushing gets u killed. the best thieves stay invis a lil longer than your average thief. not because they are scare or playing sissy style….they let the opponent play scared. if u pop out after 1-2 secs everytime it wont be confusing enough or keeping them on their toes.

Lightsbane.9012:

Teamkiller.4315:

Lightsbane.9012:

Travlane.5948:

horrible idea. you would have to up there total defense about 75% making it just under what a warrior is.

or you could stack vitality and toughness, like everyone else trying to counter this OP broken class.

OP broken class -_-

I would like to hear your reasoning on this?

Also travlane says things just as bad as what you just said so don’t think I’m singling you out. He’s just beyond hope.

because as a bunker engineer i’m still taking 6k backstabs. just how much armor do i need to reduce damage from a thief?

if u have protection up u shouldnt be taking 6k + backstab . espeically in a bunker build. if u are….u should be able to melt that thief as they ahve low hp and even lower defense

Rolls* ….right?

horrible idea. you would have to up there total defense about 75% making it just under what a warrior is.

i do. i have one wrist. i keybind only 2 of my utilities…..keybind steal…keybind CND/black powder and the rest i click 1 2 3 4…. the video i only have 1 hand bc of surgery on my left wrist from a body building accident.

@authority Why not for tpvp? …im notsaying its wierd i have my own thoughts but id like to hear more details.

wow . you have so much resentment issues. theres plenty of different ways to play. roaming. zerging. 1 v 1 duels. 1 v 2 duels. have videos of em all. big damage spikes. got those too. sure i almost have my 2nd and 3rd legendary but thats not what makes you good. maybe knowledgeable ….but not good. work thru your issues and plz try to contribute to conversations with more than just hate like that. maybe back up whatever you say with REAL examples…..your perception on some stats? even better yet a video of you playing? but no….havent seen any…..all we see is the same 3-5 people on our thief forums stirring up trouble and arguments from the minority perspective. plz act like and adult and respect others in here. thank you.

feistyweasel.1790:

Coloxeus.3480:

2 great thief will always be a draw.. or if someone wins its just a matter of luck or very close match! i enjoy their duel!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06VyDlzyuZU

You’re such a troll.

technically he is right. ive had a couple of thief fights wher ive taken a draw. very very very very few tho. most thieves make the mistake of attacking when all their aces in the hole are on CD…..leaving them 0 room for a mistake or dmg/stun. patience is the key along with talent/experience.

@ demented …. are u 100% SURE on that? if so thats great. i always felt they were harder to target….

i personally run 0 30 20 20 0 when i run s/d that whay if i get into the 1 v X scenario i switch to d/p to get a lil more defensive with stealth. build can double as both.

heres a lil clip. only a small one as im making a 15 min video but waiting to stockpile enough footage. d/d is fun but it cant do wghat p/d or d/p can do. :P

typographical usually …..not grammatically. yeah im sure you are so amazing…..lets see your video. i havent even shown a roaming video yet. ewll i tried but it got cut at 20secs. im in the midst of making another. so…all you do is crack nonsensical accusations that are groundless and make your comments look absurd. back it up or be quiet.

ahh ok so its the typical invis backstab builds. yeah thos are about as balanced as a thief can get even tho they are all zerk gear with a bit of valk usually. yishis thief isnt really that good. (hes a very good player) but his build isnt zerg worth. its a 1 v 3 and 1 v 2 1 v1 build. i could show you a video that does better in zerg style ….well atleast a build that allows a thief to get in the fray and do stuff . not just on edges. hence you never see thief vids of helping in zergs. only roaming 99% of the time. :P even in spvp all the videos (other than wild bill) are all of 1 v 1 or 1 v 2 max ….cant really do 1 v 3 in spvp with the dmg reduction.