Guild Wars 2

savints.6281:

Travlane.5948:

savints.6281:

Geiir.7603:

Before you start telling me how much you love this mechanic, please understand that I too love the mechanic, but it just doesn’t work. People don’t want to learn how to counter it and stealth have always been called OP in every single MMO that implemented it. ArenaNet didn’t implement Stealth in Guild Wars because they meant it would be impossible to balance a game with stealth. The Assassin and how that profession work was a much smarter approach and something that worked.

This is copied directly from the GW wiki:
The Assassin walks the shadows, a deadly viper ready to strike at the heart when the enemy least expects it, nowhere and everywhere all at once. Assassins are masters of their chosen weapon, the dagger, and are expert at inflicting Critical Strikes that cause massive damage. The Assassin is trained to efficiently link attacks together in a chain that does not give the enemy a chance to hit back. They have mastered the ability to move as shadows—Assassins wear only lightweight armor and prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy’s strike lands. Their other magical skills include Hexes that lower the target’s defenses and protect the Assassin from harm.

I would much rather have that kind of profession with tons of shadowsteps and quick hits than stealth. And as we already can see, they’ve nerfed us patch after patch, and now they’ve really started to destroy our core mechanic – so why not just remove it and buff us in other ways….

Removing stealth is never going happen in this game, you might as just accept this fact and rather then posting pointless suggestions that will never get implemented, just focus on the things that we need right now, and what “they say” we are going get like higher mobility, which I am really excited for, even if it just reducing the cool downs on some of our more mobile utility’s

I was worried about the stealth traps just as much as the rest of you, but in fact it was not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, so what if that 1% or 2% of the wvw’ers that are roaming at the time actually wast (because in fact it is a wast) a trap just to one kitten one thief (because you know they can’t/don’t have the skill to actually beat you with out one, hence the reason they are carrying it in the first place) it’s just so hilarious in my opinion I was fighting a ranger that was clearly being out classed by me the other day, and thought it was just the best idea to bust one of these traps down so they could get some easy kills, well I will tell you what, I swapped to d/p (main is d/d) and just trolled him with head shot on that last second of the trap being set, anyways, kinda off topic, stealth is not going any where, just learn to live with that fact, if you don’t like stealth in gw2 try rolling another profession, or find a new game in the mean time (because you know gw2 is free and you can ALWAYS come back to it at some point whenever you want)

they are worse than expected….. its not really fair to say well they arent affecting people that much bc they are not used like every 2 mins everywhere right now….but when they are used you are almost assuredly dead :P. they are horrible. you could say that mesmer immortal build is weak “when ur not fighting it” but when you fight it your as good as dead….i mean that doesnt make much sense. you have to look at in effect. not if in effect.

I do player on a lower tier server, so that might have something to do with it, but I don’t see these traps being used, it’s pretty rare.

So maybe my opinion them is a little jaded compared to the people that play on t1 and t2, if so, then I really don’t have that much experience with them as the rest, saying that everyone and there grandma is running with these traps, and they are placed every 5 feet in wvw… it’s just hard to make an honest judgment on the matter.

i get what ur saying but let me ….“rephrase” this to put it into perspective in the way im saying it.

what if….there was a trap that said this:

“decrease targets chance to survive / escape / win by 90%”

but they cost 1 gold each……….would that be fair or ok? i mean it costs 1 gold each… so should that be ok as long as the price is high enough?

what if one of these for 15 badges:

“target cant summon phantasms/clones for 30 secs”
“target cant change elements for 30 seconds”
“target cannot change weapons or use adrenal skills for 30 secs”
“target cannot use a bow for 30 seconds”

i mean if they costs 15 badges….they should make one for each class. would that be ok in your opinion? :P even if they arent widely used yet?

Necrochild.1497:

So I roam in WvW and still haven’t encountered one of these things.

I’m really not seeing this as a big deal, I know it’ll suck when I do trip up on one but as it stands I think this trap is a non-issue, and probably a waste of resources for the guy who buys it, only to have it tripped by a non-cloaking class (which I can imagine happens often).

lets be real…the only practicall use is for using against roaming thieves. if veil is never a problem….cool or annoying? sure but not like omg they used veil EVERYONE WATCH WE GONNA DIE! no no no. its devastating against roaming thieves only from what i use / see. i have been demolishing thieves with thiese….just demolishing them. that said… its a diff game on supply traps. those are zerg effective. 2 thieves can utterly stop a whole zerg from sieging anywhere.

yes . it killes like 3 -4 builds almost completely. only evade builds can survive. all other builds have atleast 20 in shadow arts.

also mesmer has the best burst/dmg in game. and they have invis…teleports and clones and phantasms. they have a plethora of resources/options. thieves only have 2nd or 3rd best dmg and stealth…..take away stealth is like taking away all clones/mesmers. how long do u think a memser will last without those? and the analagy/comparison is perfect. its literally like taking away all clones/phants for 30 secs. mesmer has no chance or survival .

savints.6281:

Geiir.7603:

Before you start telling me how much you love this mechanic, please understand that I too love the mechanic, but it just doesn’t work. People don’t want to learn how to counter it and stealth have always been called OP in every single MMO that implemented it. ArenaNet didn’t implement Stealth in Guild Wars because they meant it would be impossible to balance a game with stealth. The Assassin and how that profession work was a much smarter approach and something that worked.

This is copied directly from the GW wiki:
The Assassin walks the shadows, a deadly viper ready to strike at the heart when the enemy least expects it, nowhere and everywhere all at once. Assassins are masters of their chosen weapon, the dagger, and are expert at inflicting Critical Strikes that cause massive damage. The Assassin is trained to efficiently link attacks together in a chain that does not give the enemy a chance to hit back. They have mastered the ability to move as shadows—Assassins wear only lightweight armor and prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy’s strike lands. Their other magical skills include Hexes that lower the target’s defenses and protect the Assassin from harm.

I would much rather have that kind of profession with tons of shadowsteps and quick hits than stealth. And as we already can see, they’ve nerfed us patch after patch, and now they’ve really started to destroy our core mechanic – so why not just remove it and buff us in other ways….

Removing stealth is never going happen in this game, you might as just accept this fact and rather then posting pointless suggestions that will never get implemented, just focus on the things that we need right now, and what “they say” we are going get like higher mobility, which I am really excited for, even if it just reducing the cool downs on some of our more mobile utility’s

I was worried about the stealth traps just as much as the rest of you, but in fact it was not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be, so what if that 1% or 2% of the wvw’ers that are roaming at the time actually wast (because in fact it is a wast) a trap just to one kitten one thief (because you know they can’t/don’t have the skill to actually beat you with out one, hence the reason they are carrying it in the first place) it’s just so hilarious in my opinion I was fighting a ranger that was clearly being out classed by me the other day, and thought it was just the best idea to bust one of these traps down so they could get some easy kills, well I will tell you what, I swapped to d/p (main is d/d) and just trolled him with head shot on that last second of the trap being set, anyways, kinda off topic, stealth is not going any where, just learn to live with that fact, if you don’t like stealth in gw2 try rolling another profession, or find a new game in the mean time (because you know gw2 is free and you can ALWAYS come back to it at some point whenever you want)

they are worse than expected….. its not really fair to say well they arent affecting people that much bc they are not used like every 2 mins everywhere right now….but when they are used you are almost assuredly dead :P. they are horrible. you could say that mesmer immortal build is weak “when ur not fighting it” but when you fight it your as good as dead….i mean that doesnt make much sense. you have to look at in effect. not if in effect.

jportell.2197:

swinsk.6410:

1. No. I don’t want to buy new gear and rebuild for the 3d or 4th time. I’ve had enough. I like stealth and shouldn’t be ostracized for it.

2. True, but they will be used in any 1v1 vs. a decent player.

3. If you hit one in a zerg you will probably die.

What game are you playing?

You really think you can come on here and tell all thieves to rebuild and regear and that everything will be OK?

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

Traps are the dumbest thing in GW2 and reason I refuse to play wvw anymore.

This is how mesmers felt about the confusion nerf in WvW… it’s annoying because there are still NPC’s that we have to try and wear down. It destroyed a build for us completely. We feel absolutely useless thanks to the massive confusion nerf.

you are 100% rright….but confusion was pretty broken. more so than mug :P .

@zikory im abusing the heck out of em and yeah ur right. i wonder if anet can see the class population…like how much of each class is played in wvw or spvp etc.

geiir…if they do this they will buff the heck out of our evades and mobility and make us harder to kill even visible. backstab wont need invis…. they will just find something else to complain about. have to just fight fire with fire. they want us to be the worst at zergs and mediocre at best in roaming? thats just silly. how about we are horrible at roaming but the kings of zerg? oh wait then they would complain about that. soon as FS LS came out that was the new flavor of hate. it wont change. i think this is jsut a bad idea and fueling their fire to the next thing

anet didnt make a huge mistake. this game is dumbed down too much from gw1. took most the creativity from the players so they can now focus on playing rather than building which makes a broader age range of players. this also killed combo builds which is bad and killed elitist groups for dungeons which is good. stealth is a combo build ….most other classes dont have skills that “mesh” with others so its realloy hard for them to keep up when thief have a true ebb and flow to their class(although some clunnky areas obviously)….guardian is prbabily the only other class that truely flows all traits skills with aegis/blocks and symbols.

@STICKYPANTS drop sig of shadows for blinding powder. u already have 50% movement in stealth. its a waste of a utility if u get jumped.

destroy? nobody. lose to? quite a few. destroy means like no chance of winning or so little its not worth considering. basically what i meant was it wasnt particularly good play here :P. on thief or warrior.

Sil.4560:

That’s probably because they still seem incredibly uncommon. As was asked, honestly, how many of you have even been hindered by one of these traps?

its tough to say “well i dont see many used so its not affecting the game” when in reality IF THEY ARE used its more along the lines of “i lost 90% of my defense and healing and condi removal and blinds and speed and intiative regen and now im dead” type of thing. so yeah i get what u mean but once people start realizing they can use these while roaming if they see a thief coming for an automatic win…they will. sure it may not happen alot but its an “easy button” for people whent hey do use them.

offence.4726:

This thread seems out of this world for a guy like me who only logs in for WvW on a daily basis , cant say I saw any of these traps since they were implemented am I being that lucky ?

its not much. i used 2-3 per day of the stealth traps. they just are auto wins agains thieves…not that i ndeed them but i want them gone so showing how they can be abused.

Burnfall.9573:

Actually Geiir,

“Thieves BUILT FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent” that statement is ‘Dead Wrong’

Ninjas BUILD FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent, Arenenet mixed Ninja mechanism and elements to thief.

Once again,

NINJA STEALTH
http://www.cart-white.co.uk/ninja/stealth.htm

THIEF Designed for Steal
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1088048-Thief-Multiple-Designs-for-Steal

Last Note; Thiefs’ you call youself Assasins? Take this> Assassins GW1
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin

Interesting thing is that Guild Wars 1 Assasin weren’t “stealth dependent” and till this day, thiefs are no match to them, even with “stealth”; they can put thiefs stealth ‘to the dust’ with their Evasive Evasions skills.
Nor they weren’t “useless” without Evasions, yet they still managed to be a Deadly ‘class to reckon with’
;see thier other skills and mechanisms.

In conclusion, all indicates that Stealth doen’t belong to this class; it is a mixture of other classes designs and mechanism.

Therefore, I Encourage Arenenet to follow Asssasin gw1 model and ’Once And For All, Stripp Stealth Entirely From Thief class"

It is Time to adapt.

Or Follow the True Model of Thief class with Steal

dude…this is utterly horrible. i mean you really dont know much about thieves. really you dont :/ thieves are build around stealth. the ONLY thing the other trait lines can do that stealth doesnt is a intiative gains….and thats only like 2 options at that. stealth is our heals…or condi removals….our init regen……our init gains…….our health regen……our aoe blinds……or setup for attacks…..our escape…..our defense……..our speed buff (50%)…. i cna keep going on….all of these are basically soley part of stealth :P

all glass cannon kills too. they all had 14-15k hp

guy in the song was horrible. but in the video i noticed that its always 1 kill clips :/ anythign longer? i turned it off. also u can die from a downed player before you stomp so easily :P hate this build. i liked it better with mug crit :/

Coloxeus.3480:

Travlane.5948:

i used to catch alot of heat from the same 3-4 haters about running this build. they said its not good :P i personally love it. although its bad against d/p

this is fun to use in spvp cuz of placing caltrops on capping point. but in real P/D conditions is not good againts very good players if they know how to counter this build. just don’t ever try the P/D thief cast his CnD to u. when hes trying to gettin close. evade forward counter his movespeed cuz hes just trying to get close and cast his CnD

still tho p/d vs d/p is a draw. :P unless 1 gets overly carried away/overly aggressive. but i personally think p/d is the best overall build for thieves.

for me….they are about the same. i kill 98% of most thieves that stay for a fight……i now drop stealth traps everytime and kill them 100% without even dropping below 90%….. i dont NEED stealth traps but i want to abuse them until they realize they are taking away 80% of a thieves capabilities with it more of a wakeup call. stealth traps and supply traps are equally as bad/stupid. anet really didnt thinkt his thru

id destroy this thief….:P i know warriors that could too. SoR build works on him….boom gg.

idk. im stoping full zergs by myself when they attack a keep/tower. i set up 1 where they drop rams….then i have another in hand at inside of gate and go outside under shadow refuge soon as the first is triggered and drop a 2nd. then thats almost if no 200 supply gone. so unless they have 40+ they arent getting inside. even if they do….they have 0 supply left for inner gates. :P lol owned.

i used to catch alot of heat from the same 3-4 haters about running this build. they said its not good :P i personally love it. although its bad against d/p

Kallist.5917:

Travlane.5948:

there is no more best build. they all are horrible if running into a trap. well lemme give this a go.

granted you hit no traps: d/p with backup sb or s/d
if you hit a trap: run s/d and d/d full evade and hope to troll long enough stay alive.

Ive played WvW all day and havent seen a trap yet. Their not that big a deal.

u havent played me. and its still early :P ull find out when people get smart /see others leawrning how to use them. im already stopping medium zergs single handily from taking towers…..yes 1 thief stoping 20-30 from taking a tower. also dropping trap against 1-2 even 3 thieves is an instant win for me. thieves are totally abusing these traps

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Run out of… heals? D/P is basically survivability in a different way by whoring around with Invisibility and Blind. It’s essentially a 1v1 build, that loses in group fights when your stealth goes down hill.

fully 100% agree. although its more 1 v x than 1 v 1…..and def not a zerg v zerg build.

Mujen.5287:

Travlane.5948:

Mujen.5287:

Travlane.5948:

cookie cutter backstab hasnt worked in months :P….

Yet I still encounter around 7 out of 10 thieves still using it! They live and die by their heartseeker.

either ur on the smallest server in the game….OR….ur misidentifying it. d/d cookie cutter backstab hasnt been a viable build in a long time. not even when mug would crit. it make seem like it as people that were using heartseeker/backstab alot.

actually people are sheep and i think yishis or w.e. his name is did a new d/d video of a few random clips of d/d doing ok here n there. i think people might be trying it out again as they feel that if yishis is doing it they are going to do well too. the real deal is that 75% of wvw thieves (saying this to be safe…id be closer to 85 or 90%) are using d/p with backup sb or s/d……the other small % is a mix of s/d and p/d users. ….of course a small few outliers might run d/d but so small i cant remember the last time i saw one on t2 servers.

Tarnished Coast, and I play primarily fight in sPvP.

im dragonbrand and am soley speaking of wvw. i cant vouch for spvp as i only play maybe 6 matches a day .

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Travlane.5948:

Lighter.5631:

Ruggan.4102:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

swinsk.6410:

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

dont thieves have nearly constant evasion if built right?

Yea, you can build a thief for constant evasion… well semi-constant… of course you sacrifice damage and other things for it… but to be serious… ok, so what you are saying here is simply this… build a thief so you can enter combat but all you will ever do unless you want to die is evade…. ooooh that sounds like sooooo much fun.

your logic is flawed

quite the contrary. if u ever played an evade thief that constantly or near constantly evades…their dmg is as bad as guardians and minus the boons. all the do is evade and hope that catrops can kill :P …… if u die to caltrops than just shouldnt have a discussion at all lol. caltrops is good but not going to win any fights by itself. you cant do dmg while evading…..and look at the evades (the damage evades)

death blossom : 1 sec of animation for a 1/4 sec evade
FS: 1.2 secs for .5 secs evade :P

the only great evade is roll for initiative (3/4 sec evade) 1 sec animation

out of all the evades in the thief arsenal…..only deathblossom can do any decent dmg and not enough/fast enough to matter. its a joke and a troll build.

S/D would like to have a word with you.

evade all you want :P wont kill me anyday. ive never lost to a s/d while in d/p. and i wont either :P at the extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeme worst case scnario is it is a draw….but s/d will run out of heals before i run out of invis.

Geiir.7603:

Arheundel.6451:

Geiir.7603:

People seem to fail to understand that a thief built for stealth, that then can’t stealth, is a dead thief. No survivability, no defense, no burst, no damage – that’s a thief without stealth as they have designed it.

Lets just remove stealth already, since that’s the feeling they’re giving me doing this. It looks like they want us to be warriors with 11k health, 1k toughness and only damage. No boons or other useful utilities..

Thief players have rightly complained about bunker with too much bunkering…but now we’ve got stealth thieves with too much stealth, the d/p build is completely broken and need to be changed asap

I agree. And the change needed to accomplish less stealth from that weapon set have already been mentioned by the devs, but they scrapped the idea. Make it impossible to stack stealth and give you 3 seconds of revealed wether you attack from stealth or not.

That would pretty much solve it.

it would also cut defense and healing/removals etc etc intiative etc….running etc…by anywhere from 30-80%. its a huge jump. and this is soley bc everything is attached to invis. attacks…defense…blinds….regen….heals…init regen…init jumps…heals…..condi removal. you add reveal you halve the time thieves are invis….or you keep them there longer making a longer more trolling fight. best option is to boost other classesx rather than dumbing the game down even more.

Arheundel.6451:

Geiir.7603:

People seem to fail to understand that a thief built for stealth, that then can’t stealth, is a dead thief. No survivability, no defense, no burst, no damage – that’s a thief without stealth as they have designed it.

Lets just remove stealth already, since that’s the feeling they’re giving me doing this. It looks like they want us to be warriors with 11k health, 1k toughness and only damage. No boons or other useful utilities..

Thief players have rightly complained about bunker with too much bunkering…but now we’ve got stealth thieves with too much stealth, the d/p build is completely broken and need to be changed asap

so ur saying 1 skill that you THINK is op(and it may or may not be) should give anet a reason to nerf a whol trait line….to nerf healing…regen…blinds….defense…offense….condi removal….intiatiave jump…initiative regen….and speed boosts? just bc people think black powder shot is a lil strong? d/p is that strong. in the history of the game its like the 5th strongest build….which is why players since day 1 havent been playing with it. until nerfs forced us to the next best build. other classes get skills nerfed…..thieves get whole builds nerfed. huge gap in equivalence here.

there is no more best build. they all are horrible if running into a trap. well lemme give this a go.

granted you hit no traps: d/p with backup sb or s/d
if you hit a trap: run s/d and d/d full evade and hope to troll long enough stay alive.

jportell.2197:

Even though people are saying cookie cutter backstab hasn’t worked in months then why is their so much rage about the mug nerf? Wasn’t that trait necessary in the rotation of a cookie cutter backstab build?

mug was good in any build with hit crit dmg. s/d ….d/p…………. best case scenario is when people would open with mug CND Steal BS then switch back to a real weapon set as d/d offered such little defense the thief would immediately (as it felt) DIE if there were other around. generally mug did around 3-4k on a crit…..if u sacrificed all defense you could do a lil over 6k…. so before this a GC thief could still kill 1 person and stomp before they die. now after the mug nerf….there really is no reason to go GC anymore. its dead :P a GC thief cant even burst my thief down nevermind a real player with higher defenses.

Mujen.5287:

Travlane.5948:

cookie cutter backstab hasnt worked in months :P….

Yet I still encounter around 7 out of 10 thieves still using it! They live and die by their heartseeker.

either ur on the smallest server in the game….OR….ur misidentifying it. d/d cookie cutter backstab hasnt been a viable build in a long time. not even when mug would crit. it make seem like it as people that were using heartseeker/backstab alot.

actually people are sheep and i think yishis or w.e. his name is did a new d/d video of a few random clips of d/d doing ok here n there. i think people might be trying it out again as they feel that if yishis is doing it they are going to do well too. the real deal is that 75% of wvw thieves (saying this to be safe…id be closer to 85 or 90%) are using d/p with backup sb or s/d……the other small % is a mix of s/d and p/d users. ….of course a small few outliers might run d/d but so small i cant remember the last time i saw one on t2 servers.

cookie cutter backstab hasnt worked in months :P….

Lighter.5631:

Ruggan.4102:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

swinsk.6410:

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

dont thieves have nearly constant evasion if built right?

Yea, you can build a thief for constant evasion… well semi-constant… of course you sacrifice damage and other things for it… but to be serious… ok, so what you are saying here is simply this… build a thief so you can enter combat but all you will ever do unless you want to die is evade…. ooooh that sounds like sooooo much fun.

your logic is flawed

quite the contrary. if u ever played an evade thief that constantly or near constantly evades…their dmg is as bad as guardians and minus the boons. all the do is evade and hope that catrops can kill :P …… if u die to caltrops than just shouldnt have a discussion at all lol. caltrops is good but not going to win any fights by itself. you cant do dmg while evading…..and look at the evades (the damage evades)

death blossom : 1 sec of animation for a 1/4 sec evade
FS: 1.2 secs for .5 secs evade :P

the only great evade is roll for initiative (3/4 sec evade) 1 sec animation

out of all the evades in the thief arsenal…..only deathblossom can do any decent dmg and not enough/fast enough to matter. its a joke and a troll build.

EpiChlo.4072:

swinsk.6410:

I just refuse to play a game with those things in it.

I know I can still kill people and even possibly get away if I hit a 30s reveal trap using shadowstep + hs spam.

That still doesn’t mean I think the traps are fun.

ANet ruined wvw for me. So I quit playing it.

sPvP for me only now. No biggie.

You could argue this with any mechanic. There are people who think Perma Stealth isn’t fun. Does this mean it should be removed. No.

niether is playin a class than cant take more than 2 good hits before running/quitting :P but we have that. so either nerf stealth and make us into warriors or nerf traps :P

10k range? mine dissapears after like 5 seconds :P

Mathias.9657:

ANet finally realize they designed the thief horribly and should have went with a more Assassin from GW1 approach, that’s why they are forcing everyone into the S/D dodge meta, with stealth being rarely used. I suspect we won’t even have stealth at some point, what sucks is it’s our only survival vs any decent player and they are doing nothing about certain traits being completely useless with the new anti thief traps.

Best thing to do is just quit this game / class until they make up their minds on what they want to do.

yeah i havent really played the last 3 days. i mean its like driving an 8 cylinder muscle car and having the shop keep changing the engine parts every week. u fall in love with so many things and it changes all the time…… id rather them just do something big and make thieves good rather than all these QQers. honestly theives even with the pre mug nerf were fine. they had their spots (roaming, 1 v 1 , blast finishers, scouting, camp capping) thats what they did. did they do 1 v 1 and roaming better than anyone else? YES! however do the best players in spvp and tpvp play thieves? NO ….why? bc guardians and necros and mesmers are so much better at it…not to mention even rangers now. in wvw are thieves great in zergs? no …one of the bottom 2….. but since we are sooooooooooooooo good at roaming we cant have one lil place to play in this big world of gw2…..cant have just roaming? not even 1 thing we are best at? we are the best at roaming… SO WHAT!? lol we dont have the highest dmg….. we dont have the highest mobility (solid 2nd place)….. obv lack of boons hp and defense…… take away stealth and what are we? just a softer(armor)….less hearty (hp) ….less boon’ing….less mobile…..less invulnerable…..less healing……..less damaging version of warriors. who wants to play that.

Ps….plz dont pick apart the fact i said less mobile/dmging (i know its very debatable, but in overall damage over time …aka minutes….warriors win bc we have to hide so much……….and mobile….we are a lil better in combat but they cream us in sprinting. so :P)

Meridian.8730:

p/d cd is pretty much useless in 1v1 but can be good in 2v2 etc…pvp. Only ever saw one good p/d cd thief. Ever.

i keep meaning to try a p/d in wvw (trying to make an effective one). you can steal during whirls….daggerstorms….cloack and daggers….heartseekers……i mean all kinds of things….perhaps if u stick daze on steal…. and it can work with p whip….could be a viable combo there

maybe on the d/p….however that would have to change the necro blind fields and make them near useless too. the necro fields are so much larger(full aoe) would be a crippling blow.

the healing is fine in shadow rejuv. u compare it to a signet that need 0 trait points. 350-400 per tick is good for a 30 point GRANDMASTER trait. :P

mug doesnt do 2000 dmg unless u have a perfect hit and the thief is running 0 defensive traits and 0 defensive skills and 0 defensive utilities. and if he hits for 2k for some ungodly reason then the heal is low. 10 30 20 10 0 is like a 700ish hit :P mug is weak sauce now. that aside prolly more like 2 secs on daze….. IMO daze is preferable than stun so idk….2 secs + extra time really adds up.

hard to catch is bugged as it causes a KD to the thief…..not much to complain about here unless u wanna fix it so we dont get knocked down :0 that would be great.

i like your change to richochet….makes p/p and unload almost useable….perhaps with pierce in the 20 point category?

60 secs on instinctual is nuts! should be 20 secs tops. i totally agree. its just regen…especially for 20 traits…..

if u think of assassins sig stripping 5 boons or 4 in one move (FS to LS) thats a bunker killer instant :P maybe a lil too strong. i think assassins signet should cause a 2 sec KD and stack of 5 bleeds for 5 secs……60 sec recharge. now that would be great. OR i think steal should have a 1.5 ssec KD….would make the 45 sec CD survivable

i believe things like needle trap/tripwire etc should be 400 radius circle traps that triggers only when sombody is close to the center (so to get more people) and should pulse once per second for 3 seconds.

dancing dagger……vital shot…….body shot………trick shot………pistol whip ……these skills need love like an abandoned child.

Scrambles.2604:

Zikory.6871:

Scrambles.2604:

isn’t the anti-stealth trap a 4 sec cast? Good luck pulling that off in a 1v1.

Most thieves use shadow refuge so that is more then enough time to pull it off. Also if your fast any of the thieves stealth skills will give you enough time to drop it and only be out of stealth for a short time.

shadow refuge – aka “spam shortbow 2 here”

I didn’t say it couldn’t be done. But good luck pulling it off.

I feel like there’s a bigger ratio of thieves “speculating the effects of anti-stealth traps” vs “experiencing the effects of anti-stealth traps”

i made a video of a thief i dropped it on getting owned lol……its an automatic win button! they lose about 50% of their dmg without invis. pffft not just defense. if u think its not…ill be more than happy to “test” one on you in a 1 v 1. ive already dropped a few in random fights against roam thieves…..ive won everyone with pretty much close to full HP!

yeah 50% speed is nice when it works. i run next to others when they are 33% and somteims it feels like im running 40% other times 50%. its always 50% while in combat but out of it is on/off.

d/p is better for mobility when escaping/resetting. s/d is better for striking and confusing and in combat mobility. theres 2 diff kinds of mobility….dodging and porting….then speed and escape/reset mobility. d/p is the latter and s/d is the first. both differ both better at each’s own.

Sentinel VX.1392:

Travlane.5948:

evade thieves dont last very long in wvw :P stealth also has +50% movement which in d/p is perma speed so :P idk….and when u use speed your heartseeker goes farther too.

I’m using shadowstep a lot not really evading, although I do evade a lot in during combat sometimes with endurance reduction trait which let you dodge 3 times. Sword skill 2, infiltrator signet and steal give you a big leap, you can also run with shortbow skill 5 afterward.

From what I understand 33%(out of combat) is the max speed possible, that 50% movement speed only affect you when you are in combat since your speed is reduced significantly otherwise it’s capped at 33%(out of combat) speed. Also it says that trait is bugged on wiki.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fleet_Shadow

EDIT: I also enjoy catching unsuspected victim with basilisk venom from far away because they thought I could not reach them :P

s/d only has more IN COMBAT mobility. out of combat d/p is the champ. infil strike only works in one direction then you go back until aobut 14 secs later is when it resets to use again…… shadow shot, however can be use on rabbits and mobs/other players to get away or to a certain direction. so they both have the same utilities but infiltrators step only works once every 14 or 15 secs. you can spam shadow shot 5 times or so maybe more if u use other skills

the 50% speed on stealth actually does work….rarely but it does work. even the times that it doesnt….it still gives 33% minimum so you are still going faster than d/p…..they both get swift on rolls so d/p can stay perma swift if he wanted to

evade thieves dont last very long in wvw :P stealth also has +50% movement which in d/p is perma speed so :P idk….and when u use speed your heartseeker goes farther too.

x x 30 30 10 roll with catrops + caltrops blind powder shadow refuge …. u can death blossom or just sneak attack….whatever i preffer sneak as it gives area blind after stealth for extra defense….u never have to leave caltrops circle. maybe even a few cluster bombs. camp goes down in 30-40 secs if done right

very true! i run s/d as main and d/p as backup for when i run into thieves

in wvw i run d/p and s/d backup or p/d and sb backup

in pve d/d and sb or d/d and s/d

i try caltrop bunker build too it works well

Iavra.8510:

Most thieves in WvW run D/P just because of it’s incredible survivability, high damage and (really) borderline OPness.

So i would suggest S/P. It’s at least something different and for the most part won’t be affected by any Stealthtraps.

its high survivability in roaming. and i run it in wvw. when im in zerg i run a p/d build as its 22k hp high condi dmg high heal high condi removal and a several anti CC skills.

WVW roaming = d/p with s/d backup 0 30 20 20 0
WVW zerging = p/d with sb backup 0 0 30 30 10
TPVP = s/d and d/p backup 0 30 20 20 0
SPVP = s/d and d/p backup 0 30 20 20 0
PVE = d/d and s/d or sb as backup 20 30 20 0 0

this is what i run and find it to work perfectly for me!!! hope it helps. the trait lines change alot but is a general idea.

even in t/spvp you kinda need it in the 4 v 4 or larger fights…..too much incidental dmg …..

So i gotta say. not only is the stealth trap absuletly devastating and pretty much takes all thieves out of the fight if they want to survive……but the supply trap is just as crippling. I was in eb…..just me……myself….and I. i wanted to see how good they were. i saw that an enemy zerg was attacking the supply camp next door to the west. i decided that they were probably headed here to i think mendon’s…..so i decide to drop my first supply trap at the door for when the rams are built….usualy they wait for everyone to get there before dropping. so anyway they come up….almost trip it (i had already grabbed 10 mpore supply from the 250 there was already there)…… and i used shadow refuge inside….i go out as the ball up and soon as the first ram went down i was already half way through dropping the 2nd trap….then 1st trap springs and everyone backs up a lil to try avoid it as unlikely it would work…..and they literally walked all ontop of me as i finish the 2nd trap. boom 200 supply gone from a 25 man zerg. then i dropped caltrops and 2x clusterbomb on the siege drops and then blind powder and infiltrators step into the sally …… now its like what 10 suppy per 60 seconds or whatever at the supply camp? so by me spending 20 supply…i was the soul protector of the tower. im not bragging….bc any nub with shadow refuge and dodge skills can do this. my point is we now can put 1-2 thieves per tower or 1 thief per gate at a keep/sm and its prettymuch good. i mean ok lets say its a 40 man zerg……they manage to drop 2 -3 rams……both thieves go out and drop a couple of traps draining the rest of their supply. now they have 0 chance at breaking into the inner plus we can solely focus on destroying rams and ignore the zerg. its such cupcake work. this ruined wvw .

any thoughts/ experiences for u guys?

its not a super high dmg but it creates pressure for 1 person and with all the aoe dmg/stuns/kds/conditions and fear etc in wvw…..thief is toast. usually stealth gives thief a chance at staying in a fight or atleast coming back. very rarely does a thief have enough time in a zerg fight to stomp unless on the very skirts of combat.

Daendur.2357:

Sentinel VX.1392:

As a non-stealth thief this doesn’t change anything for me, ha!

yeah, you’ll die exacly as you did before.

lol. loved this +1……. non stealth thieves die fast in wvw :P….can get by in spvp/tpvp tho

lamehater.7986:

swinsk.6410:

I don’t like the evasion thief. I prefer stealth.

Ill continue to spvp but I am not setting foot in wvw only to give free points to players with traps that kill my entire 30 points in shadow arts.

I’m tired of “adjusting” every patch and learning to play my class a different way. I just want to be able to login and have fun. I feel like my class is being persecuted. I used to play wvw almost exclusively until you nerfed revealed to 4s. Since then it has been all down hill for me and my fun in wvw. This patch just killed it.

If these traps make it to spvp, I will quit the game.

I highly doubt that you’ve properly thought this through. You do understand that no one is going to throw up something that costs more than an AC to kill a single thief, right?

These traps are never (rarely) going to be used outside of large groups of people. They’re only ever going to be good for denying veils, portal bombing and such. In massive groups your stealth doesn’t matter all that much anyway due to all the AoE damage everywhere, and when you’re just roaming around you won’t see these traps.

In a week from now we’ll see even less portal bombing and less veil. I think that’s as far as it goes. Thieves will barely feel the effects of this.

ill tell you what……if i have 2 thieves attackign me….im giong invis and dropping this sucker……everytime….u can bet on that. if im on my guardian….and im trying to get to my zerg while a thief is trying to gank me….im going to drop it rather than risk dyign/running back by the same thief. they will be used. its too early totell how and how much.

Zelulose.8695:

Travlane.5948:

Zelulose.8695:

stof.9341:

There’s no need to change Backstab such. The longer you take to land a backstab, the more likely you are to land a facestab instead.

Unfortunately, the d/p thief allows you to create a blinding field and stealth without taking damage. Continuous spamming of this allows you to stay in stealth until you land your backstab. This is why I don’t mind the spamming. I simply would like dodge block and blind to reveal a thief.

you realize that the black powder shot blinding field doesnt kill melee dmg. only if the opponent is silly enough to enter it. you can do dmg outside of the field quiet easily. you can even do dmg inside the field. (every other hit) not only that if u stand next to the field they cant stack stealth bc they will hit u with HS.

There are ways to HS out of blinding field without hitting your target. The blinding field pulsing blind every second is the damage delay needed to stealth again and black powder also can hit with a blinding shot. Furthermore, it can be stacked for double blind pulsing. My honest questions that I will present to you, beside defending my point, are why are you so interested in defending this skill? Is it so overpowered that a nerf to this skill would ruin your builds ability to spam stealth while preventing other players from interrupting your HS? If not what is your honest intention for claiming this blinding field does not skill damage considering it is a BLINDING FIELD?

To end this I will quote you from another forum. And to defend yourself you may want to delete it lol.

d/p if played perfect will never lose to s/d…… and d/p has blinds for group play which is better than what sword does…..s/d doesnt do anything for group play other than being able to hit more than 1 target if they group up. p/d does the most for group play when running condi hp build.

Ironically, I’m pretty sure you said blind does not kill melee damage. But it sounds like its pretty effective according to this statement.

s/d played perfectly should never win aginst d/p played perfectly…… this is granted nobody runs. this is bc d/p has more heals / condi removals/blinds/intiative regen s/d only has a lil extra intiative gain. i could literally switch to p/d 2ndary and bleed you to death without a worry in the world. its just a bad matchup for s/d thats all. s/d is more for boon builds and melee builds. d/p can stay invis…..

blind field is very small. im not saying its not super strong/useful. what i am saying is u can work around it ikittennow that the range of your attacks is greater than the fields. ok also i have brought numers thieves out of that by hs hitting me….ok sure…whatever 1200 dmg to give them revealed? ill take it. gives me time to beatdown and use head shot.

that said i think the the pulse is fine but the duration is a little too long. drop it a second and it will change drasitcally….it will blind less and stack less stealth. then re evaluate.

Florgknight.1589:

Why would anyone waste 10 supply to make you revealed for 30 seconds. The stealth trap counters veil, not single players.

really? i showed a video of it revealing a single player :P ….many people ahve millions of karma and thousands of badges…… like me im going to use it everytime i find a thief.