Guild Wars 2

only had 1 hand in thsi video (post surgery recovery) ….but p/d is VERY usable with the right build. onlly d/p is annoying bit its a draw if ur good.

i still play it in zerg/guild play.

i used one in a fight against a thief in tc….. i used SR….then 3 secs later he did. i hopped in the center of his and dropp trap….BOOM…..won with 100% hp. “when used” its an auto win button. its actually on video on the “stealth trap video in action” thread.

d/p if played perfect will never lose to s/d…… and d/p has blinds for group play which is better than what sword does…..s/d doesnt do anything for group play other than being able to hit more than 1 target if they group up. p/d does the most for group play when running condi hp build.

swinsk.6410:

Puandro.3245:

swinsk.6410:

Puandro.3245:

I have not ran into 1 trap so far from the enemy while i played my thief for 3 hours after the patch. Although i did use them against thieves and tbe result was hilarious when they drop shadow refuge and it does nothing.

Only because most players are noobs and it takes them weeks or months to figure out what it takes you about 15 minutes to figure out.

As soon as people figure it out, it’s going to be bad.

Probably but the stealth traps is a bandly implemented bandaid “fix”

Agreed. I think you should post video of your Mesmer using this trap in 1vX vs thieves. I bet thieves will be free points to your Mesmer after hitting them with trap. You can also use your stealth to drop it.

I know traps work both ways, but I don’t want to play a game where dropping traps on solo thieves is how you win. I don’t want to waste my time removing supply from a Zerg over and over because it simply kitten es them off.

These traps are literally the worst idea brought to gw2.

They should work more like PN from Daoc. Highly visible to the enemy. This way the will only be useful in large Zerg battles at choke points. More of a defensive skill vs offensive.

supply traps give thieves a new rolle…..(single handly stop zergs!!!) im going to made a video of this on raid nite…… Shadow refuge……go out of keep drop trap……go back in grab 10 supply….go back out drop another….. even if they do get thru first gate they will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER get thru the 2nd.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Travlane.5948:

overuse? could this be because anet attached EVERYTHING to stealth? :P noooooo couldnt be lol.

init regen
init gain
heal
health regen
aoe blind
2 might per invis
2 condi removed per 3 sec invis
backstab
sneak attack
surprise shot
tactical strike
Cloack and dagger
(basically all our important attacks)
50% increased mobility (only works 33% bug)
escape option

i mean thats not that much attached right? :P lol oh man.. 3 out of 4 utilities use stealth too…the 4th is shadowstep.

evade spam thief is …. interesting but not a highly competitive build.

CnD say deal dmg grants three seconds of stealth. for me at least it should say, deal dmg, grant four seconds of stealth, gain regen,gain two stacks of might, run 33% faster, next attack will be critical if from stealth

good point…… or u could rewrite it to say….deal dmg for 6 initiative…….if u trigger a trap or are near one that is triggered. the list above is to just show a thief is destroyed on these traps. offense …defense….boons….heals….blinds etc. way too much. if they just lost stealth or stealth attack thats one thing…but so much is attached. wait for the weekend to come. we will see whats up.

swinsk.6410:

Traps need to be highly visible to the enemy. Both stealth and supply.

This would cause them to not be used in open field or 1v1. They would used at keeps and large Zerg battles where the enemy is forced through a choke.

Clearly anet didn’t pick up enough from Daoc.

yeah and then u could place traps to curb enemies to attack where you want. although u could just send 1 warrior up to trip them so it would defeat their poitn. 20 supply each would fix the issue….or minimu of 15.

Zelulose.8695:

stof.9341:

There’s no need to change Backstab such. The longer you take to land a backstab, the more likely you are to land a facestab instead.

Unfortunately, the d/p thief allows you to create a blinding field and stealth without taking damage. Continuous spamming of this allows you to stay in stealth until you land your backstab. This is why I don’t mind the spamming. I simply would like dodge block and blind to reveal a thief.

you realize that the black powder shot blinding field doesnt kill melee dmg. only if the opponent is silly enough to enter it. you can do dmg outside of the field quiet easily. you can even do dmg inside the field. (every other hit) not only that if u stand next to the field they cant stack stealth bc they will hit u with HS.

Korsbaek.9803:

cufta.7309:

I can’t believe this is the game that i payed for O.o….Instead of the guy who plays better wins, now its the guy who has the trap wins.Why don’t you make traps that have the effect of instant killing a thief, but just a thief not any other class i mean anything else would be unfair.
P.S I played my wvw thief for fun.It look’s like from now on i will play to lose to anyone who has this trap no matter if he plays better then i do or not.

plays better when thiefs is/was easy mode given the heavy regen in stealth you have/had acces to, then comes the damage to mind and the fact that there is/was no efficnat counter to stealth othere then predtions and gut felling where the thief had to run around like a idiot and waiting to eighter gain hes hp(if thats what he stelathd for) and then just before the end trow in a heavy hit on the oppenet.
but sorry thief is/was easy mode and take/toke a lot less skills then to counter a thief
and yes i have played a thief before tho not a 80

sorry but u are totally wrong and its very very very obvious you do not play a thief. ok 2 things:

A) lets 1 v 1 …. my thief vs your thief….u know since “thief”= “easy mode” smarty lol
B) then lets 1 v 1 ….my thief v your thief….ill use a trap…..i bet i win with full health or close to it.

if u are right you will win or come close to it. i bet im at full health or close to it when i beat you both times? this would prove that playing thief is not easy mode and actually is one of the classes that requires more to play.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Well if everyone is going to have a stealth trap and use them. And since they’re so cheap you can stock up on them. And since it’s so easy for you to drop them. Just use supply traps as your opener. Takes 5 supply away… which means they cant drop their stealth trap.

I’m being silly of course, but if you claim everyone will be using a stealth trap, then hit them with the supply trap first. I personally don’t expect to see the stealth traps much. I might be wrong, but that’s my guess. I still think they’ll be used mainly for keep and tower sweeps and maybe next to siege.

so you have to run up to them first and place it as a squishy thief. a thief is dead in 4 secs ….not just taht they will literally step back 1 hair and drp theirs at the same time. its silly to suggest that would work.

RedSpectrum.1975:

LightningBlaze.4913:

More likely this is because most thieves overuse the constant stealth mechanic in wvw.

But you can’t blame them, see how long you’ll last with an evasion build when a large group finds you.

gotta give a +1 here. evasion can “get by” in spvp but not really flourish anywhere . especially in the real wvw where big fights happen. a thief can take a camp with d/d or p/d or d/p ….s/d evade is hella hard if at all possible unless u CnD

overuse? could this be because anet attached EVERYTHING to stealth? :P noooooo couldnt be lol.

init regen
init gain
heal
health regen
aoe blind
2 might per invis
2 condi removed per 3 sec invis
backstab
sneak attack
surprise shot
tactical strike
Cloack and dagger
(basically all our important attacks)
50% increased mobility (only works 33% bug)
escape option

i mean thats not that much attached right? :P lol oh man.. 3 out of 4 utilities use stealth too…the 4th is shadowstep.

evade spam thief is …. interesting but not a highly competitive build.

techinically u dont “see” any as they are invis. but also there was no bright flashy notice that they were added. i didnt even know until i checked forums…. so :P watch…..come time for the weekend action you are going to see a big change……atleast in implimentation ways.

lol im sure….but its a wvw/tpvp player only. basically like my guardian. only run him if guild needs more guards or its a tpvp. special case thing. but then again thats what thief is for…..special cases….scouting ….roaming….camp capping. :P

most fights wont have this involved. but if thats the case its the case by choice. ok i have lots of karma (2million) and lots of badges(2k)…..why wouldnt i drop one after i shadow refuge in a roaming fight aginst antoher thief? tell me why iw ouldnt. i just roam anyway…not much i can do else as a thief :P i could go follow my zerg and blast finish on fire fields….yaaaaay thats fun. chance are you wont run into them all that often. but if roaming which is what we thieves do…… if it is dropped its an insta win button. thieves get to cut off the reinforcements on raid nites. .. all the reinforcements have to do is run with invulnerability and drop one if they get in trouble….no thief is going to try if they do. but back to the point…yes we wont run into them much….but when we do its an instant win button for opponent. do we ahve taht for anyone else?

you have to choose the only preset build anet wants you to play. evade spam :P its annoying and boring in my opinion.

@doggie i tried one on a thief i met in TC. dropped it while in stealth….was an insta win…. had 100% hp when he died.

ok ill admit its not going to happen every 5 mins ur in wvw. but when it does….its insta win button.

i rolled a necro… i wanna feel needed/usefull in a zerg fight. gonna make him beast mode.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

swinsk.6410:

Atoss.1056:

Alright! Time to spend my 150 badges + 5250 karma! 10 thieves sure are worth it!
>_>

Really?

You only have 150 badges and 5250 karma? Did you just start wvw yesterday?

I have over 1000 badges and 927000 karma.

Seriously, this trap cost 15 badges and 500 karma. It’s cheap as anything.

I could accept that argument if the trap itself cost 150 badges and 5000 karma for just one trap.

I’m pretty sure classes like ele and engi can easily set these by casting the trap first then hitting elixir S or mist form or whatever invuln they have to avoid damage. Warriors can pop endure pain. Avoid all damage while setting this trap.

This is going to get stupid fast IMO.

I didnt see one stealth trap tonight. But I sure saw plenty of thieves… as always. As the case was last night, didn’t have one fight tonight that DIDN’T have a thief in it. The only thing that’s stupid fast that I’ve seen in regards to these traps is the crying about them.

people are curious. i bet there is a larger influx of thief players tonite than the past 4 tuesdays.

Atoss.1056:

swinsk.6410:

Atoss.1056:

Alright! Time to spend my 150 badges + 5250 karma! 10 thieves sure are worth it!
>_>

Really?

You only have 150 badges and 5250 karma? Did you just start wvw yesterday?

I have over 1000 badges and 927000 karma.

Seriously, this trap cost 15 badges and 500 karma. It’s cheap as anything.

I could accept that argument if the trap itself cost 150 badges and 5000 karma for just one trap.

I’m pretty sure classes like ele and engi can easily set these by casting the trap first then hitting elixir S or mist form or whatever invuln they have to avoid damage. Warriors can pop endure pain. Avoid all damage while setting this trap.

This is going to get stupid fast IMO.

I used to have a lot of badges and karma, but made some alt’s which needed to be geared up, and last time I’m just buying siege which gets used up very fast
So yea, 1k badges and 1m karma is not much of what I would have, if I sticked to 1 class and /care about sieging up our towers. Even if I had 10k badges and 5m karma I wouldn’t give a crap about making some traps to catch some stupid thief

Sure, there will be some players with lot of badges/karma saved up, who will want to do some thief hunting/trolling, but you guys make it sound like you were falling into that trap at every few steps

its not about catchign a thief. its about nullifying a thief. stopping them dead in their tracks. its nto about a thief getting away. its abuot a thief losing its heawling its condi removal its blinds its speed ups its intiative regen its intiative gain its might stacks and its big attacks. ALL GONE> plz tell me anything in the game that can nullify all of these on any other class. you know that some guilds set up small thief teams to go cap camps bc they are fast and good at it? now 3 guardians can EASILY take 8 thieves at a camp where as before it would be a massacre. … pffffttt. anet didnt say what these were for bc its pretty obvious they want thieves to be A) rebuilt erased. i mean cmon every patch is another big nerf. CND to clusterbomb to revealed 4 secs to mug to stealth traps. the biggest changes have always been against thieves (ill give a tie to the one where RTL got nerfed tho)

BlackBeard.2873:

I play a thief too, and I think this makes things a little balanced:

1. You can still run away while visible, like every other class does. There are plenty of displacement skills and great run-speed.
2. Games are more interesting when there are plays and counter-plays. Thief has potential to not be only a predator who stalks other people and kills or runs at will. It may be upsetting, but every other class had to deal with being thief prey before.
3. The cost is too high unless you have tons of badges already. I am not exchanging 15 badges + 10s for the CHANCE that the theif is terrible and doesn’t know how to survive when he can’t abuse a broken mechanic. Its not like the trap immobilizes or reduces your damage significantly. It only reduces your access to stealth skills. If that hampers your play-style – RUN. I promise if you actually practice not abusing stealth, you will still beat most other classes in a foot-race as you run away, especially if you are clever with your shadow-steps and shadow-shots.

so are you going to drop all stealth skills to have run awawy skills instead? roll for initiative rather than shadows refuge? myabe infiltators signet instead of blind powder? sign of malic/withdraw instead of HIS? if u think being forced to play an evade build is ok. well than you are in the minority. for now now lets make the game so mesmers can only play scepter builds. would that be fun?

if u think 15 badges is high then u dont wvw much. i have thousands. ive used thousands. you make 150 per 2 hour raid easily. :P thats 1 sitting. not just that if u only use these when those pesky thieves show up AND you are alone…(obv wont use them 3 v 1 wqhen a thief shows up) then ull use MAYBe 2 per day. if u cant make 30 per day even with limited time…. wll thats a diff story

Ross Biddle.2367:

How does this stop the thief from utilizing their other main wvw tactic? That being, disengaging and running away.

L2P thieves.

stealth is the way to disengage. if the trap goes off preventing stealth….. ummm yeah. i don need to finish the rest i think

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t know why anyone would ever allow these traps to be used in organized duels…

That’s like that one guy who dueled me and used GEARS back before they got removed xD

its not about oragnized duels. totally missed the point… woosh right by lol. point is the debilitation. unless ur accusing him of not trying? in that case challenge me on your thief.

can you guys tell the devs/decision makers dont play thief? lol

Kajin.5301:

that poor p/d reduced to ping #1 autoattacks …

rip P/D

I’m glad I run a no stealth s/d.

I’m curious about the change of supply usage. Would ppl start to waste towers/keeps supply for these. Roamers don’t care about the bigger picture of battles or join zerg / door fights, so I imagine they will use precious supply.

Also curious if thief scouts invisibly lay anti supply right outside a camp that just got capped ? And to counter this would the group cappin the camp lay anti-stealth before taking said camp or depot to counter this. Paranoia paranoia

lol it would save more supply if it were more expensive….people wouldnt use it as much…this is so cheap that any one person can do it if they have a grudge against a bully thief…….waste the zergs supply :P ….bet thatd make the ommander mad

swinsk.6410:

ShadowLordX.5148:

Honestly, you really shouldn’t be stepping on the trap in the first place. it’s very obvious where its at except vs thief mirrors. Further, even if you do happen to step on it. Disengaging for 30s then reengaging wouldn’t be particularly difficult. Even if you don’t reengage, you just cost them 10 supplies, 15 badges and 500 karma. Which is arguably a higher cost than actually dying and repairing is.

What happens if someone sets a trap while your not around and roams that area and kites the thief into that trap?

It’s not like we can see it on the ground.

People will get smart with the trap. I think it’s pretty obvious if an ele pops mist form to drop one of these a thief isn’t going to run into it on purpose, but if someone sets a trap before hand how a tra kitten upposed to be set and not during the middle of combat, then yea it will be very useful.

Thief vs. Thief, this trap will be a fight winner unless you are evasion built and don’t have any stealth.

Shadow arts is freaking useless in wvw.

I am very frustrated with this and recent changes to thieves in general. I may be taking extended break from gw2.

Screw ANet and all the QQers who ruined my class.

i agree. id prefer to play monk but they too my monk away in gw2….. anyway the worst area is in the SE and SW camps at the entrance in the small entryways….u CANNOT avoid this…or juts put it infront of any camp….almost awyas you will hit it. same at north camp…….. put 1 at each entryway…… ownage….. on infront of longview…… NE camp entrance too…..so many obvious spots that you really dont avoid them. makes rangers stronger too now. nothing worse than multiple volleys of arrows comgin at you and 2 dodges only ;/

PopeUrban.2578:

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Once it’s pointed out there are builds that could counter unbeatable build… lay down the trap card. Well I suppose that’s a good way to completely evade the point I was trying to make. Fair enough.

Honestly the “trap card” is a viable argument when it comes to thieves. Stealth is literally half of all of our defensive traits and skills.

It’s the equivalent of dropping an anti-aegis card. Some classes will be minorly affected by it, but guardians would be majorly effected by it.

I understand WHY the traps exist. Veil zergs and stealthed portalbombs can make a joke of defensive preparations. However I feel that the implementation is lacking. Applying 30 seconds of revealed is extremely harsh if you’re a stealth thief, and almost ignorable if you’re running any other build. This isn’t like the confusion nerf. Confusion mesmers can still kill people, can still use the build. This trap effectively removes an entire trait line from play for thieves for 30 seconds, regardless of where they go.

A better implementation would have been to create an anti-stealth field around the trap once triggered than ticked 1s revealed every 1.5 seconds. This would be just as effective against those problem tactics.

On a larger scale though, I’m expecting to see more of these traps. I wouldn’t be suprised to see anti-speed traps, anti-boon traps, and all other manner of harsh defenses that will likely hit other classes just as hard. It only makes sense as it promotes combined force efforts and discourages homogenized and stale WvW tactics in favor of being creative and adapatable.

This is a good thing, but only as an end result. These traps really shouldn’t have been released piecemeal as the message that this sort of release sends is a pretty clear “We don’t want stealth thieves in WvW” whether it’s intended or not.

i like this idea. i think that the team that makes these changes DEF dont play thieves. and in theory its like yeah …might work out…lets go with it….next project up?

Lokheit.7943:

Is the trap placement interrupted if attacked? If it is then roamer thieves are more or less safe from this, if not if someone is really sick of fighting a roamer thief he can use this and just taunt the Thief (and if he can be interrupted he might use some sort of invulnerability while placing it). To be fair the cost of using it would be more than repairing one piece of armor, but it’s an option if they get sick of it.

My main problem with this is not that it damages survivality, it is that most thieves builds are oriented around the stealth skill (I hated the day they made them because I knew most thieves would be forced to play around them when they originally intended and stated for stealth to be very secondary). If a Thief is part of an assault affected by the trap, his build is completly damaged so he can’t add much to offense.

No matter if the original target was veiled zergs, this kills whole builds when a Thief is affected by one of those traps be it individually or as part of a group. Stealth isn’t something exclusive to Thieves, but the Thief is the only profession where offense isn’t optimized in a lot of builds if they can’t access stealth.

I think now it’s a good time to get rid of the stealth attack concept. It’s silly IMO, it would be like warriors getting extra skills for using Might, all players can be affected by stealth but Thieves are forced to use it to get use to some of their most powerful skills. I know that there are builds that don’t need it, but stealth skills are powerful enough to be the cornerstone of most of our efficent builds. If they get rid of them and rebalance all weapon sets to work without needing stealth I would be really happy given how the current system is producting nerf after nerf after nerf.

dmg or attacking does NOT intterupt it.

swinsk.6410:

Atoss.1056:

Alright! Time to spend my 150 badges + 5250 karma! 10 thieves sure are worth it!
>_>

Really?

You only have 150 badges and 5250 karma? Did you just start wvw yesterday?

I have over 1000 badges and 927000 karma.

Seriously, this trap cost 15 badges and 500 karma. It’s cheap as anything.

I could accept that argument if the trap itself cost 150 badges and 5000 karma for just one trap.

honestly you prolly waste 2 per day at most.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Travlane.5948:

really the onnonlygeneral bama. care to duel? me and my stealth trap vs you and your thief?)

I do believe he mains an engineer, some thief you are for not analyzing your enemies first

well that wouldnt make any point. why would i do a battle with anti stealth against a engineer? it owuld have to be against a thief to prove my point :P

RedSpectrum.1975:

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

@sunflowers. lets pretend ur a ranger for a moment. you have 10supply+ stealth trap. you are alone and found a thief coming at you from afar starting invis. what would you do? try place trap? or pray you are better than the thief and fight to risk running aaaaaaaaaallll the way back if /when you die. if i were the ranger, i would personally use a quick invulnerability and drop a trap leaving 1 sec of free hitting. usually dodged. wasted a trap/10 supply but ur alive and theres a dead thief or running thief.

not just this scenario….but a thief can abuse it……….shadow refuge + set stealth trap wherever. nobody would know. amazing in thief v thief or thief v mes

If I am a Thief I will see that he is placing a trap and not fight him there. It’s like if someone runs to an supply camp I won’t fight him there either, because of all the guards.

i fight people in supply camps but depends on build. anyway point is. IF YOU FIGHT….its a loss tothe thief and a WIN for whever placed it…..if they DONT fight you…you still win by not dying / waiting for backup. either way its auto win / auto life. its a game changer.

point of the game is not to run in a 1 v 1 ……or in a 5 v 5. its to fight.

Are you serious? Think what happens if they use the trap:

Roamer uses 10 supply
Thief chooses not to fight at that area
Roamer wastes 10 supply.

How does anyone not see this?

Actually it’ll be a stalemate, while you’re all like “uh uh I ain’t goin over there”
They’ll be like “uh uh, I ain’t leavin here”
<.<
>.>

wasting that 10 supply at the VERY least just saved his butt.

saving it = a waste.

i did not know this.

really the onnonlygeneral bama. care to duel? me and my stealth trap vs you and your thief?)

sure are ! ….wth else would u spend badges on? once u have everything….i have over 2 million karma…… 1k badges left after i bought 3 gifts of battle and lots of other exotics and siege spent like7k already.

thief def drops it the easiest….and in that respect has the easiest win. other classes have sanctuary…clones….invulnerability…blocks…..plenty of ways to drop it……pulls/push. def a broken.

you may see anet up the costs to 20 supply or atleast 15. if it WAS meant to target zergs…then 1 player couldnt drop em.

@ sir vincent. ill be carrying one everytime i roam…..its the “EASY WIN” button when i face a thief. i cant lose. lol.

lol. its funny …….ill tell you what. i will ALWAYS have one of these in my arsenal ….when a fight a thief in wvw…… GG youza dead hoss!

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

@sunflowers. lets pretend ur a ranger for a moment. you have 10supply+ stealth trap. you are alone and found a thief coming at you from afar starting invis. what would you do? try place trap? or pray you are better than the thief and fight to risk running aaaaaaaaaallll the way back if /when you die. if i were the ranger, i would personally use a quick invulnerability and drop a trap leaving 1 sec of free hitting. usually dodged. wasted a trap/10 supply but ur alive and theres a dead thief or running thief.

not just this scenario….but a thief can abuse it……….shadow refuge + set stealth trap wherever. nobody would know. amazing in thief v thief or thief v mes

If I am a Thief I will see that he is placing a trap and not fight him there. It’s like if someone runs to an supply camp I won’t fight him there either, because of all the guards.

i fight people in supply camps but depends on build. anyway point is. IF YOU FIGHT….its a loss tothe thief and a WIN for whever placed it…..if they DONT fight you…you still win by not dying / waiting for backup. either way its auto win / auto life. its a game changer.

point of the game is not to run in a 1 v 1 ……or in a 5 v 5. its to fight.

my guild uses mass invis. it gives us MAYBE a suprise 2 sec jump on enemy zerg….but its hard to run 4 secs of invis as a larger group and surpise anyway anyway….u know whewre they are bc they are too big to move in any 1 direction :P….

srry went off there on a tangent…..my question is …was INVIS ever that big a deal on mass scale? never heard a complaint. kinda reminds me of trick shot.

@sunflowers. lets pretend ur a ranger for a moment. you have 10supply+ stealth trap. you are alone and found a thief coming at you from afar starting invis. what would you do? try place trap? or pray you are better than the thief and fight to risk running aaaaaaaaaallll the way back if /when you die. if i were the ranger, i would personally use a quick invulnerability and drop a trap leaving 1 sec of free hitting. usually dodged. wasted a trap/10 supply but ur alive and theres a dead thief or running thief.

not just this scenario….but a thief can abuse it……….shadow refuge + set stealth trap wherever. nobody would know. amazing in thief v thief or thief v mes

ShadowLordX.5148:

Poxheart.2845:

The only reason why the player featured in the video was able to set the trap is because he did so while in stealth. If he had tried to set the trap while not in stealth, the other Thief would have burned him down in 3 or 4 hits (probably before the channel was half complete). In a typical 1v1 encounter against a Thief, anybody that stops fighting for 4 seconds to set one of those traps is going to find himself looking at the respawn screen. The only probable exception to this are Warriors or Necros that stack Vitality, and even they would find themselves in such a HP deficit that the Thief shouldn’t need stealth to finish them off.

Seriously, all the histrionics being displayed in this and other threads do nothing but identify the bad players. If a Thief can’t burn down an opponent that isn’t fighting back in 4 seconds, you were never good.

This. Realistically the thief mirror(where the opponent can do it to you, and maybe the mesmer fight) are the only fights where in a 1v1 situation anyone can get this off if they haven’t already pre-set the fighting area. Any class who invulnis and drops this will be super obvious what they are doign and you can easily avoid the trap.

the invuln + tra kitten uper obvious… TRUE. but let me ask you this. if you are a ….ranger (notorious for thieves picking on them) would u put the trap down? or risk dying and running back? :P i , personally, would drop the trap and sick my pet on the thief. ….the trap is thick enough to stand on and move back n forth width/legnthe to get the thief to trigeger it. …. imagine push/pull skills + trap. what if a guy is stationed at a camp to guard it….thieves are the best at capping these…..not like the wont have enough supply to spam them every 30 secs. just another niche taken away.

its not about being obvious or quick to cast. its about not being able to fight as a thief….and barely run away.

Poxheart.2845:

The only reason why the player featured in the video was able to set the trap is because he did so while in stealth. If he had tried to set the trap while not in stealth, the other Thief would have burned him down in 3 or 4 hits (probably before the channel was half complete). In a typical 1v1 encounter against a Thief, anybody that stops fighting for 4 seconds to set one of those traps is going to find himself looking at the respawn screen. The only probable exception to this are Warriors or Necros that stack Vitality, and even they would find themselves in such a HP deficit that the Thief shouldn’t need stealth to finish them off.

Seriously, all the histrionics being displayed in this and other threads do nothing but identify the bad players. If a Thief can’t burn down an opponent that isn’t fighting back in 4 seconds, you were never good.

theres a few points this video / thread is showing:

1) any ONE player can make a trap.
2) thieve’s can particularly abuse it.
3) every other class has 3 secs of invulnerabilty….soon as its down. gg again
4) thieves cant drop classes in 3-4 hits or in 3-4 seconds unless they drop all defense and go down to 11k hp. which most wont bc they die…..

if u think im wrong. would u care to challenge me in a fight? ill use any class with this ready. :P

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

you have a point about the supply in the middle of nowhere….but if they roamer that is attacked by a roaming thief is going to die and have to start from waypoint anyway….dont u think he would use it for a trap real quick?

.

If a Thief can’t recognize an obvious 4 second cast time and avoid the area, I don’t know what to say. Maybe he will die like if he played any other class.

oh no no no. u read it wrong man. i used the trap while under shadow refuge. couldnt see me use it at all. was already placed. no chance :P

So what if I’m not a Thief (or Mesmer, I suppose)? Against 3/4 of classes the setup of the stealth trap will be there for the Thief to see.

Besides, if the target is gonna die who cares if the Thief has a 30 second reveal? Not like a dead person cares whether the Thief is revealed or not.

im sorry i made a point about thieves using it in stealth and bc of that making it an auto win. i apologize again not trying to argue but im not following what you are meaning when you say " 3/4 of classes the setup of the stealth trap will be there for the thief to see." etc etc. can u plz try to explain this another way as i dont really see what ur saying.

Mathias.9657:

SR is widely accepted as shadow refuge, not shadow return ;p

lol u beat me to it…mine return was longer. hes pro tho. GOOD LUCK TO U SIR lol

SR is more commonly known as shadow refuge. ….shadow return is said shadow return as to not double up on acronyms. :P its ok tho. best of luck to you too. and no i dont look for arguments. i have nothing against your build…..but sorry s/d porting all around vs 30 people has no real heals on it. you would die or they are blind / bad. no video i assume? if u wanna debate/contribute plz try use examples….stats…facts…..suggestions. generally stories are hard to confirm without video. i mean “my build is prolly gonna get nerfed soon as i had a bunch of people watch me in aw beat up on 30 people” :P…..thats called well….let the forum decide :p

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

you have a point about the supply in the middle of nowhere….but if they roamer that is attacked by a roaming thief is going to die and have to start from waypoint anyway….dont u think he would use it for a trap real quick?

.

If a Thief can’t recognize an obvious 4 second cast time and avoid the area, I don’t know what to say. Maybe he will die like if he played any other class.

oh no no no. u read it wrong man. i used the trap while under shadow refuge. couldnt see me use it at all. was already placed. no chance :P

Crawford.4135:

Travlane.5948:

no cnd on mobs? you are taking away from what a thief does….uses his environment to be sneaky and tactical …..jump in and jump out. strike and dissapear. none of which works well in zerg fighting….hence why thieves stay on the outside. all of our defense is revovled around stealth. if we had more HP i think i could live with no stealth……like if our base HP was up with warriors and we had the same defense.

right now we have the worst overal defense worst boons no blocks no invulnerability and tied for worst hp pool. this is why we have stealth. unless you change most of those…..u cant take stealth away. i would prefer tied for highest hp….average game defense and regular boon access and blocks and invul……in expchange for stealth….u know since mesmers outdmg us and warriors are on par.

In PVE we have ‘the’ worst defense, but in PVP I have to disagree. Thieves are not about toe-to-toe by any means. I, however, go into massive groups on my server and take out players over and over by teleporting in and out. I get touched, but I get out before dying. Sometimes the enemy gets lucky if they ‘all’ focus me, but that is very rare.

“right now we have the worst overal defense worst boons no blocks no invulnerability and tied for worst hp pool. "

This is very, very untrue. We do not need blocks, we do not need invulnerability and we do not need massive HP. I’m not sure what setup you’re playing, (assuming you’re D/D since you mentioned you might be using CaD?) so I can’t answer you directly, but what you’re saying is not how a thief in this game works . . . . by any means. We are “go in, kill, escape” artists. We are a tactical fighter, not a bludgeoned fighter like most of the classes in this game.

However
I do see a very, very huge nerf coming to my setup soon. A bunch of players watched me teleport behind a group of 30 people over and over as they tried to kill me. I simply toyed with them the entire time without using stealth one single moment for about 15min. They pulled me in, I teleported out. I made them chase me down, I teleported behind them. Over and over they were unable to touch me, hardly, and I walked away.

At some point ArenaNet is going to say “Enough” and nerf SR horrible. When that day comes, I will be done with the game (it’s bad enough it has massive bugs in mass fights). I don’t need stealth to be tactical against who I am fighting. I choose when I want to hit them without needing stealth. I choose when I will start and end the fight. If things get bad, I get out and go back in when I am ready, not them.

SR is probably one of the most under used abilities in this game, yet ‘the’ most single best ability any class could have. I’m glad we have it — I just don’t know for how long.

if ur talkin trolling anyone can set up an evade troll build…..unless ur picking on upscales it doesnt have the go go to do anything agsint 20 people…. would have to back bold accusations with a video which is very easy to make.

Crawford.4135:

Travlane.5948:

no cnd on mobs? you are taking away from what a thief does….uses his environment to be sneaky and tactical …..jump in and jump out. strike and dissapear. none of which works well in zerg fighting….hence why thieves stay on the outside. all of our defense is revovled around stealth. if we had more HP i think i could live with no stealth……like if our base HP was up with warriors and we had the same defense.

right now we have the worst overal defense worst boons no blocks no invulnerability and tied for worst hp pool. this is why we have stealth. unless you change most of those…..u cant take stealth away. i would prefer tied for highest hp….average game defense and regular boon access and blocks and invul……in expchange for stealth….u know since mesmers outdmg us and warriors are on par.

In PVE we have ‘the’ worst defense, but in PVP I have to disagree. Thieves are not about toe-to-toe by any means. I, however, go into massive groups on my server and take out players over and over by teleporting in and out. I get touched, but I get out before dying. Sometimes the enemy gets lucky if they ‘all’ focus me, but that is very rare.

“right now we have the worst overal defense worst boons no blocks no invulnerability and tied for worst hp pool. "

This is very, very untrue. We do not need blocks, we do not need invulnerability and we do not need massive HP. I’m not sure what setup you’re playing, (assuming you’re D/D since you mentioned you might be using CaD?) so I can’t answer you directly, but what you’re saying is not how a thief in this game works . . . . by any means. We are “go in, kill, escape” artists. We are a tactical fighter, not a bludgeoned fighter like most of the classes in this game.

how is that not true? u did nothing to disprove it lol…. i mean they are pretty well known facts. we have horrible overall defense ….10.8k starting hp…. only have decent access to fury might and kinda swiftness. no aegis no protection barely any regen no retaliation no stability (yes i know DS but its during skill only so its more than limited)… our toughness is also game low starting pool.

i can run p/d bleed build that runs 22k hp with full focus on condi/hp and that can get in and do some dmg ….but as far as d/d d/p s/d s/p you cant really get in there and mix it up like a warrior/guardian/ranger/ele/necro… not for more than a moment….. well maybe ur zergs are smaller on yoru server ? idk….ours go way up to 130 140ish and just gets ugly.

Sunflowers.1729:

I don’t believe these trap will have much of an effect on roaming Thieves
-They cost a lot (10 supply for a trap is 10 less supply for an Arrow Cart)
-Nobody is going to put one in the middle of nowhere, and they will all be next to castles
-Thieves can still escape with a shortbow. We still have the best mobility (or at least, one of the best) so even if you accidentally walk too close to a keep, you’re not gonna die

Of course, there will still be the odd chance that someone places a stealth trap in an open field, in which case that’s just a small risk. Right now our roaming is very safe so something like this is fine.

It’s implemented in a bit of an odd way, however, because it stops backstabs and stealth stuff. However this just means Thieves will have to retreat for 30 seconds then come in again.

Doesn’t really make any difference to me at all – and of course I’ll keep testing to see how big a difference it really makes in the long term.

As for the comment “people are sheep” – that’s what I see in this thread. No reasoning, no analysis of the problem, just a knee jerk response of “oh Thieves suck now”.

you have a point about the supply in the middle of nowhere….but if they roamer that is attacked by a roaming thief is going to die and have to start from waypoint anyway….dont u think he would use it for a trap real quick?

funny as it sounds thieves will be hurt this most obviously but they will ALSO benefit the most from this. thief v thief is the hardest fight…… i ran into one in wvw a lil while ago ….beat him and recorded a fight….i used the trap while i was in shadow refuge and immediately when i showed up from invis ended it triggered as i was the bait. boom game over real quick. he had 21k hp.

roamers benefit most from this. in zergs you get veils stealthing them however thats benefits them most by giving a quick WOW watchout didnt see them get that close to me…..aka a 2 sec of response time is taken away…yes thats alot i guess but not like omg we lsot bc of veil. roamers will get hit hardest by this….and since thieves roam more bc thats more where they belong…they “MAY” find trouble fitting in now.

no cnd on mobs? you are taking away from what a thief does….uses his environment to be sneaky and tactical …..jump in and jump out. strike and dissapear. none of which works well in zerg fighting….hence why thieves stay on the outside. all of our defense is revovled around stealth. if we had more HP i think i could live with no stealth……like if our base HP was up with warriors and we had the same defense.

right now we have the worst overal defense worst boons no blocks no invulnerability and tied for worst hp pool. this is why we have stealth. unless you change most of those…..u cant take stealth away. i would prefer tied for highest hp….average game defense and regular boon access and blocks and invul……in expchange for stealth….u know since mesmers outdmg us and warriors are on par.

Momekic.8603:

So, I have been fine with everything ANet has done up until now. The trap is, in my opinion, stupid broken.

They either need to up the build cost and build time of the trap or they should just get rid of Stealth and think of new ways to give us a new form of defense. And, redo all of the traits and utilities that deal with stealth.

OR, they can introduce traps that negate boons, and you cannot have any boon on you for 30 seconds.

OR, how about traps that negates each class:
– don’t let Elementalists switch attunements,
– negates Guardian F-abilities and multiplies their cooldowns by 10,
– won’t allow Warriors to use their burst abilities for 30 seconds
– won’t allow Necros to go into Deathshroud for 30 seconds
– instantly kills Ranger pets on contact
– Mesmers F-abilities go on cooldown and their cooldowns are multiplied by 10
– Engi’s F-abilities go on cooldown and cooldowns are multiplied by 10

With this trap introduced they essentially are saying they don’t want stealth playing a factor at all, so why not just remove it already.

wouldnt that just be…….fair! lol

i THINK it was meant against mesmers mass invis veil……buuuuut its targeting thieve’s defense heals condi removal blinds init regen init gains and dmg setups. its not only reveals you 30 secs when ur invis but also gives you reveal when ur NOT invis….u get it if ur in stealth or not so its super strong. any roamer can carry one as a just incase.

ways of fixing?

damage dealt while setting this up makes you restart
make it 20 supply
circular trap
only triggers if an invis player crosses it.

other ways if i thought about it but those come to mind

Deniara Devious.3948:

So far I haven’t witnessed a single use of those traps in WvWvW. In fact nobody was even interested to visit that trap selling merchant.

The area of effect of the trap is really small, considering the price and time to set up the traps (15 badges = 15 silver, as 1 badge = 1 silver when buying siege). I guess nobody bothers and still buys arrow carts instead.

Thieves can continue to roam without any fear. At least here in EU tier #1.

people are sheep. wait til somebody finds a good use….oh wait…i did. check out the video :P