Guild Wars 2

infiltrators arrow is about 33%(if i remember right) less effective than heartseeker for distance gaining. dont feel like writing it out but it really is….. just a helpful tidbit.

so shadow refuge shouldnt let us stay invis after it ends….u mean you want us to be trapped inside there and take aoe/melee dmg …not being able to roll out then when its done be “visible” to all? sounds like setting ones self up to die. wow horrible idea. the only mechanic on a thief that is arguably OP is black powder shot/the field it leaves. although it is easy to get a thief out of invis in d/p just by standing next to the field u should be hitby a HS. if not roll back…. i do it and do it very well so idk about others but still its a pretty strong skill. blind on range and blind melee and pulses and can invis. everything else is fine. thief is horrible at PVE ….not very good in zerg play…..one of the less desirable classes for spvp/tpvp…..making them weaker would just kill their roaming ability…..basically the one pride and joy they have left. burst is now dead. still good combos but no real bang like before mug nerf.

Deathspike.1870:

We don’t excel because of stealth, but we can beat bunker builds in sPVP. The problem is that we need to use stealth and that gives the defending point to the enemy because stealth is not allowed (pure BS, IMHO, it should be stealth OUT OF COMBAT doesn’t make the point capture). So, we’re useless in sPVP as it stands, other than being annoying.

ur right it does pose a problem and also puts sooo much pressure on your teamates when you are healing up while invis or setting up. however there are too many ways to stack stealth and just stand in the cap areas as a troll…..it would be a better bunker build than having 2 guardians there….. so it would be exteremely op in the sense of cap circles/squares in spvp or even wvw. thief needs a lil boost in tpvp/spvp….but i have literally no idea what to suggest here.

Lighter.5631:

when you see thieves everywhere in tpvp, you know it means something

the only thieves you see are roaming in wvw now. spvp/tpvp/zerg/guild play is now no longer in need of what thieves bring. they arent the kings of burst anymore and yet still have the crappy defense. they still are amazing duelers but take too long to do it usually… in a 5 v 5 it puts alot of pressure on teamates when u go invis to heal/drop condis/set up for attacks and also puts pressure on you if more than 1 person targets u. dont wrry it will change soon i think. anet wants to increase our base dmg so we dont have to always have 30 in crit or 30 in deadly to do dmg.

@shadow lords u might be surprised. if its a short sprint thieves would win. but anything thats like a 1-2 min race…warrior wins.

idk i had steal….infil signet…infil strike….shadowstep….hearseeker and signet of shadows and swiftness on dodge….i still couldnt beat this warrior in a race…i could catch him when i had my skills up but his leaps…whilrs….dashes…rushes…and perma swiftness i just couldnt quite keep up…. so idk…im no slouch and had him targeted the whole time. i think warrior will win

i though it was just game lag? but yeah i usually click it 2-3s before my character moves. thank you for bringin this up

i agree. im a thief and nobody regardless of buff should be allowed to enter/leave. if your hit the right with stability you shouldnt get KD but basically act as a wall. they need to fix this.

how so drawing guy?

the fact that its to the face and not overly costly/recharge. more about single target dmg and not needed like 2 targets for it to be effective. it only does decent dmg when theres 2 targets ….no more no less…..3-4 (the dmdg is spread out too much) and 1 target it only hits once. its a VERY situational weapon and i usually use it in pvp only to get credit for multiple kills. i dont remember willing to spend the 4 initiative to use it wvw/pvp

im doing ok. doing alot of wvw before the 19th… i feel this anti stealth trap stuff may be a real antithief item. will have to wait and see. making a nicce video too . gathering footage etc form wvw/spvp etc

i wish the stun / thefts were in deadly arts line :P makes more sense if u think about

shorten it…u cant quote and make a long one…too much to put in :P

CND unblockable would allow d/d back in the meta game. especially if they tweak dancing daggers

skills alone thief has em better for mobility but warriors attacks and rush etc will allow them to win this race. i always say thieve has best in combat mobility. warrior has straight dash mobility best.

oic. ok . ive notice a few times where my pistol main hand just starts going off \when i drop target then reclick. just seems wierd.

i was only talking about auto attack but yeah LS is cool

ranger? oh yeah they turn into birds n stuff. my bet is warrior.

oh ok. maybe il try that. never had auto attck turned off…was always worried about spamming 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 wheni should be worrying about roolls etc.

nicely said . nothing worse than stealing 1 stack of might :P its why i never used it more than trial periods….. id mesmers are good at illusions trickery confusion and clones and ports and special stuff like that. thieves are good at stealth….and in combat mobility and “should” be 1st in single target dmg. i wish the game let classes be the best at what they are supposed to be the best at. guardians are….mesmers are….warriors are…. umm dare i say necros are close? but the rest of classes seem to be a little off in “ideals”…. i mean ele is master of elements which is true…but also dmg mitigation and heals? idk most games have wizards/spellcaster/elementalists as the most prone to direct dmg.

lol zach ty…. nicely said. erase the word stpd or they will delete that post

@ensoriki yeah i know :P i aggree. i run 0 signets in my builds.

Sebrent.3625:

@Shemsu: Good point, I had forgotten about your critical strikes trait for proccing quickness. You got wronged too, like the Ranger. Mesmer is a bit different since it’s an elite, but oh well.

@Travlane:
A Thief signet build? Do please show me the high skill players running this build and doing oh so well with it?

If you’re talking about being able to do something … yeah, I could win a 2v1 with traits for weapons I’m not even using. It’s possible. Is it less possible with such a bad build? Yes, but it’s possible.

Also … what were your math estimates based on? Like all the other “math” you throw around, I’d love to know what it’s based on.

math is based on numbers and givens :P duh. silly question. next the signet build is the highest dmg output a thief can make. whats your point? is it balanced? no. can it kill 1 person? yes. can it kill 2? almost never.

@randomfight lol well said. somebody said that necros were QQing or somethign a couple of days ago and it spilled into this …..something about 1 v 1 and necros are horrible and i said they are the most needed/wanted of zerg play and went on to say how they actually out dmg/out perform thieves bc a thief would have to do more dmg that aoe.

Maugetarr.6823:

bhagwad.4281:

swinsk.6410:

I can’t believe people are feeding this kitten idea. This is probably the dumbest idea ever suggested.

If thieves get punished for failing a skill then so should every other class.

So if thief gets revealed for missing bs warriors should get a 4s cool down on thier auto attack when they miss. All classes should.

Besides, the fact that thieves can spam bs until it lands in no way makes then over powered or gives them any unfair advantage.

While in stealth, our unique stealth skill becomes our auto attack.

Why are so many noobs making kitten threads like this?

Wake me up when an “autoattack” like backstab does the same damage as all other autoattacks in the game.

Don’t call backstab an autoattack just because it’s in your first slot. There’s no comparison.

Actually, hitting a backstab on the front does mediocre damage at best, while hitting a backstab on the back does roughly the same as a warrior’s tripple chop. I realize triple chop has a longer channel time, but it is also broken into multiple attacks meaning that assingle block will only stop part of the damage and it also has no positional/conditional setup.

warriors have long Knock downs and a 5 sec immob. i wouldnt worry abuot a long channel time :P they ahve other options amazingly suited to match ti

mesmer is best at burst. if u think not i call another challenge thief vs mesmer. ill have you embarrassed again but wait u wont take this challenge either.

and my definition of burst is not a 2 hit combo :P pfft. burst is a quickly chained 3-5 hit combo….when haste was invovled yeah thief had burst…..when mug was invovled yeah there was burst. a mesmer can burst bc they can have clones attack frenzy blur and shatter all at the same time….hence it being a burst. t hief has none…..and plz dont try to bring the 1k dmg that mug now gives…

would be very fun. yes. my idea:

1) Dead eye attack (1 shot/second ) high dmg always the same shot.
2)Hollow point attack (450 range KB with medium to low dmg)
3)Stock Strike attack ( strike foe w/ stock 1 sec stun + fire a powerful shot that blinds
4)Pink Mist shot (3 sec charge for high dmg and deals double if foe is standing still)
5)Crawl shot (lay in stealth firing 3 rounds(3secs)each causing high dmg and .5 sec immobilize. range 1800)

yes i realize most are decent dmg but its a low mobility low invis. idk would be fun but prolly not. idk how to make these work with intiative.

So …gotta say…very cool idea… FOOT RACE in dragonbrand server

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151499703519209&set=a.135044094208.103264.114036714208&type=1&theater

This will answer our question by checking the top 20 winners average out. see how really has the best mobility. im curious ! are you?

could place a betting system and everything! would be fun i think!

any thoughts?

wow you took the words i said to you. again for the 9th time? i made charts…%s….ratios….examples….scenarios… ive backed up enough and even made a challenge to put the argument to rest….u wont take the challenge bc u dont even know how to play thief.

back up your comment that my comment isnt backed up. what ur doing is very “nananabooboo” ish. grow up.

ok….lol….a magic arm shield blocks an attack thats invis and from behind. point is they made bs not reveal until dmg. so unless dmg is dealt it should be revealed. for fairness i would say ok yeah lets make all blocks = dropping invis….but i would then say youd have to get rid of the revealed function too. BS is a very low successr ate

eles and engineers are good classes but necro is easily the best /mvp of zerging . :P believe what you want. and obv there is no monk….and less reliance on group tactics.

Sebrent.3625:

Travlane.5948:

Sebrent.3625:

laquito.5269:

Its kinda funny that your saying Thief rewards bad playing, and I partly agree on that as you don’t need to be a good thief to be somewhat successful, but in the same breath you’re mentioning D/D Ele’s, BM ranger and Phantasm Mesmers, which are just as easy to play and also reward bad playing, maybe even more than thieves.

Where are Phantasm Mesmers, D/D Ele’s, and BM Rangers being rewarded for bad play?

I’m currently unaware of any instance where one of their attacks is successfully countered by the foe but the result is the foe has a defense on cooldown and the Mesmer/Ele/Ranger doesn’t care because they can use that same skill again as if nothing had just happened. If you know of such, I’ll lead the charge to their subforum or at least PM a dev to ask about it with regards to that patch back in January 2013. Over in the Ranger forums we’ve learned that we’re sometimes aware of things that devs are not … as has also been illustrated multiple times in the State of the Game interviews.

laquito.5269:

Thief has been nerfed more than enough and the game finally hits a state, where I’d say that classes are all somewhat balanced, so theres no need for any more nerfs. Do you see me demanding nerfs for Guardians just because they got tons of blocks and mechanics to counter thieves? This nerf demanding has seriously reached a point of ridiculousness, cut it already.

I don’t see it as a nerf. I see it as a mechanic fix.

No one else says “I used big-hit-X and it was blocked, I’ll just use big-hit-X immediately again because it doesn’t matter”.

thats bc big hit x doesnt have a cooldown its attached to intiative (auto attack so techinically none) in order to “reveal” yourself from invis you have to do direct dmg …basically grabbing thier attention physically.

By that logic, they physically blocked you.

I put my Mesmer scepter/sword up to block and it blocks an attack. I guess I didn’t see the person I just blocked because they stayed stealthed and still got to try to stab my rump, forcing me to use a dodge roll or other cooldown :-/

aegis is magic. the player doesnt feel it and the player does see it *(characters eyes) and even block skills should only block FRONTAL attacks like in most MMORPGS in hirstory….hence thief skill is called backstab and does double dmg bc a shot from behind hurts….

Sebrent.3625:

laquito.5269:

Sebrent.3625:

Mathias.9657:

Why not just L2P and go to your own class forums, leave thieves alone we have been nerfed enough.

I don’t get to run with [GF] on my server because I still need to L2P, friend. :-)

It isn’t a nerf unless you’re a thief that is bad enough to backstab even when your foe is blocking, dodging, etc..

If you’re a good thief, this won’t affect you.

If you’re a bad thief, it will affect you.

Good Luck melee fighting a Guardian with revealed on block. They’ll just laugh at you, its already hard enough for thieves to kill mass blocking guards, especially when they’re bunker specced. Anet even said that thiefes are supposed to burst through them.

Sources of Aegis on a Guardian:

• Utility: Retreat!
• Virtue: Virtue of Courage
• Trait: Protective Reviver (you and the ally you revive)
• Trait: Valorous Defense (when your health reaches 50%).

That’s not many sources.

Additionally, if your goal as a Thief is to take down a tanky Guardian, you have two good options (from what I’ve seen … there may be more)

• Kiting him … doesn’t work against good ones as they have ranged and or closers
• Larcenous Strike on Sword + Dagger #3 … Guardians largely use blocks, protection, and regen to be tanking. This ability steals (so you get) their protection, regen, aegis, etc. and it is unblockable.

u r so biased. its not JUST blocked that ruins backstab. and thats why it is the way it is. u want a free pass ….its not like it takes skill to click aegis when they go invis or use a block skill…its common sense. why reward bad players with such obvious tactics. so a block would equal 3 seconds of thief bashing and 5-6k hp that they :may have lost" talk about making it easy. a guardian would never lose regardless of skill :P anyway as i stated on forum page 3 heres a list of all skills that can ruin BS on a guardian
hammer skill 3
staff skill 5
mace skill 5
mace skill 3
GS skill 5
scepter skill 3 (as going into invis)
focus skill 5
shield skill 5
shelter (heal skill 2 seconds))
sanctuary
retreat
bane signet (as going into stealth)
tome of courage
tome of wrath
renewed focus
f3
2 dodges per 10 secs (guessing)
about 5-6 traits give aegis or renew aegis/block/blind too

Sebrent.3625:

laquito.5269:

Its kinda funny that your saying Thief rewards bad playing, and I partly agree on that as you don’t need to be a good thief to be somewhat successful, but in the same breath you’re mentioning D/D Ele’s, BM ranger and Phantasm Mesmers, which are just as easy to play and also reward bad playing, maybe even more than thieves.

Where are Phantasm Mesmers, D/D Ele’s, and BM Rangers being rewarded for bad play?

I’m currently unaware of any instance where one of their attacks is successfully countered by the foe but the result is the foe has a defense on cooldown and the Mesmer/Ele/Ranger doesn’t care because they can use that same skill again as if nothing had just happened. If you know of such, I’ll lead the charge to their subforum or at least PM a dev to ask about it with regards to that patch back in January 2013. Over in the Ranger forums we’ve learned that we’re sometimes aware of things that devs are not … as has also been illustrated multiple times in the State of the Game interviews.

laquito.5269:

Thief has been nerfed more than enough and the game finally hits a state, where I’d say that classes are all somewhat balanced, so theres no need for any more nerfs. Do you see me demanding nerfs for Guardians just because they got tons of blocks and mechanics to counter thieves? This nerf demanding has seriously reached a point of ridiculousness, cut it already.

I don’t see it as a nerf. I see it as a mechanic fix.

No one else says “I used big-hit-X and it was blocked, I’ll just use big-hit-X immediately again because it doesn’t matter”.

thats bc big hit x doesnt have a cooldown its attached to intiative (auto attack so techinically none) in order to “reveal” yourself from invis you have to do direct dmg …basically grabbing thier attention physically.

Shadowskill.9852:

Sebrent.3625:

Let me be clear because it’s obvious many of you aren’t reading.

I only think a thief should be revealed when:

• Their backstab hits, but is countered by a block, dodge, etc.

I do not think a thief should be revealed when:

• Their backstab (or any attack) is out of range when they use it
• They dodge
• They use a non-attack skill

What does this guarantee?

• A thief that doesn’t pay attention to their foe’s dodging, blocking, etc. will be punished just like anyone else that tries to attack when their foe is doing the same
• A thief will only be guaranteed a backstab if their opponent isn’t wise enough to use a counter

---

But hey, here’s an idea …

When a thief’s backstab is counted by being blocked, dodged, etc., backstab goes on cooldown until the thief leaves stealth.

This could be easy to implement:

• Backstab, Tactical Strike, etc. require 1 “charge” and being in stealth to use.
• You can not have more than 1 “charge”
• You gain 1 charge any time you transition from “not stealthed” to “stealthed”
• You only lose the charge if you use backstab, tactical strike, etc. and it is countered by a block, dodge, etc.
• Having your attack countered does not remove you from stealth and does not give you the revealed debuff

The problem it seems is your basing all this off of videos you’ve watched (as stated in previous post). There are players in every profession that make their toons look OP. Asking for nerfs is not the right way to go about it. Ask for buffs or again just learn to counter and move along.

I have seen videos of a balanced Warrior just kitten a BS Thief even after the initial burst.

hate to say it but i 100% agree w/ you

sorrow.2364:

Travlane.5948:

i didnt complain. i was boasting…(that means bragging) how good necros are. what are ya missing? :P theres like a total of 3 players in game/forums that have really ever disagreed with me to an extent. seberent teamkiller shadowskill …..troll on. btw necromances are NASTY i choose them over thief if i had to make a dream team. and i dont even play necros much

…

and i dont even play necros much

I never doubted that.
Half of the Necro community GW2 had has already rerolled to another main character. I think you should find by yourself why.
Just consider that Necros have never been FotM. Never.

They are also getting buffed patch after patch. You’d say “How, that’s fantastic! Lucky Necros!”. No, it’s not.
I’d prefer 100x times to get a nerf then a small, little buff every patch. At least I had the feel to have used something too powerful which deserved a nerf.

i understand what you mean. but necros are prolly the best zerg players in the game. best at conditions (arguable with engineers) best at aoe CC….good aoe dmg….and lots of HP / hp skills :P . 1 v 1? prolly not jaw droppers or show stoppers but to each their own. are they op ? no. do they need a lil love? yes but who doesnt. i played main monk in gw1. i prefer to be behind the scenes and the “needed character” that people rely ont o make a group run smoothly like a well oiled machine. i really miss that part ni an MMO. i wish they would give us that as a new class soon.

if u dodge a bs it should cause reveal? why? its not different thatn swingin bs in the air. block? its block so you still shouldnt know where the thief is as he didnt touch you and gave no physical indication of where he is. what about invulerabilty….the word invulnerable means you feel nothing or have no effect upon….if thats the case you still wouldnt know where a thief is. stealth is only removed when you do physical dmg bc it shows the enemy where you are…if ur dodge and thief misses he didnt reveal his location….“may have heard a woosh” :P u know how caltrops does dmg but doesnt remove invis? its bc the caltrops deal dmg from the thief but the thief isnt near them so it wont reveal his location. i think this is what anet was aiming for.

i didnt complain. i was boasting…(that means bragging) how good necros are. what are ya missing? :P theres like a total of 3 players in game/forums that have really ever disagreed with me to an extent. seberent teamkiller shadowskill …..troll on. btw necromances are NASTY i choose them over thief if i had to make a dream team. and i dont even play necros much

@mcfribble i know the woes. anyway lets take guardian….the slowest…clunkiest class. ready? ok : ways to counter stealth/bs:

hammer skill 3
staff skill 5
mace skill 5
mace skill 3
GS skill 5
scepter skill 3 (as going into invis)
focus skill 5
shield skill 5
shelter (heal skill 2 seconds))
sanctuary
retreat
bane signet (as going into stealth)
tome of courage
tome of wrath
renewed focus
f3
2 dodges per 10 secs (guessing)

about 5-6 traits give aegis or renew aegis/block/blind too

they have lots of ways to to avoid bs if played correctly they are doing dmg while defensive. just one class. plus they all cooldown and use them again. a thief can only backstabe every 10 seconds roughly considering everything so it shouldnt be too hard.

the guy said necros were basically QQ because there were so bad :P but in a zerg they are amazing…..i asked my zone and my guild and there was not 1 person who said that thieves are better/more dmging in a zerg. idk maybe they are all dumdums :P?

those dont show my dissapointment. i was disapaointed in thieves id play somethign else. they have weak points…they have strong points…. i pointed out that in TPVP and in ZERGS they really arent top prospects. its true. here lemme balance it out….. when im roaming or farming PVE my thief is sooooo amazing…not to mention the in combat mobility is to die for. theres nothign more fun that confusing an enemy and when they try to swing at you u port out then back in then dodge then blind then jump em. super cool there now i pointed out good stuff lol. if you notice….i never said i want higher defense or higher hp….i just said it would be nice to feel “wanted” when making a team or to hear commander say"thieves your turn do your job" which is only to prebattle blast finish buff :/ but still.

@yOURownfear

OH OH OH! now i get it ok. no no no…ill set up and trait my usually build and try to kill…i wont run like all blocks or all dodges…it will be mixed and a normal kill build. i get what you mean. but even if i did use all anti bs skills…..add 20% to your end result to counter that fact and it will still be under 45%. but yeah ig et what you mean. if i only use anti backstabs skills/traits/utilities your % is around 5% :P

[quote=1995079;YourOwnFear.2743:]

ok if i have 500 1 v 1 fights and only 15 of those fights are of backstab being used extremely well…… if the video is cut it wont count as “evidence” kind of obvious right? lol
ok that aside. bias is needed so they try harder here. he wants to prove me wrong so hes not gonig to swing BS wildly and gamble on a successful hit. normall a thief just kinda gets close and hopes for the best. in this case *(with bias to prove me wrong) they wont whicfh actually increases there sucess rate. wanna get an unbiased player not playing as hard? sure ill just help my side tho and thats not fair. point is that against a decent to good player the success rate for BS per try is quite low. im will to bet 25% or less aginast a good player. it much be high against an upscale or nub and prolly ballances out to 50% overall…however thats a l2 kitten ue where the could get it down much more. i honestly…on my sould…cannot remember the last time i got backstabbed……have i been in the last week? eh …probably but i dont remember it bc its so rare or may not have happened.

ill make a plethora of me missing backstabs(actually trying) and only put those in my video….will that counter another video only showing clips of success? of course not. cmon thats a silly thing to say

so you go from saying thief combos are stay to thieves can keep people guessing with multiple sets after listing the normal/meta combos. contradict yourself much? thieves dont act like anything…we react to trolls / QQers.

feign what skill?
change the order of a combo and it wont work. best is to add autos/change timing
reacting is a pro skill….ur right tho most dont. best ones do.
not using stealth right away doesnt change combos.

and again ive given hard guess numbers/%s etc u have not. maybe its too hard? idk. but take my challenge or stop yakkin about it. its a perfect chance for BOTH of us and the forum readers to find out the truth. and it has to be you vs me so you cant call it “oh he didnt try”.

i have an idea but i dotn wanna influence your answer…. how did you come up with the “necromancers intiative”

anyone notice a difference on any lvl?

what are you reading? i wasnt the one who started the comparison. i was just putting in some info. and i never said thief is weak. i love them they are fun to play…weak or strong. they are great and prolly the best/tied for the best in 1 v 1. but in the bottom 2 when it comes to larger group play. just the facts. necros would def love their marks on intiative… but that means they lose their 2nd weaponswet like we do :P so they go from 8 attacks spammed to 3? idk :P lol tough call. cluster bomb is better than all necro AOES except for one necro that does liek 1535 base dmg on it…(forgot name) but cluster can take 4 seconds to hit ground…..so it comes at a severe handicap.

yeah…they alwasy (including other classes) seem to fini-sh the last command/skill/attack as or before you go into stealth. usually 1 to 1.5 seconds after stealth everythign stop.s but its still enough time for a boom shatter :P i actually questioned my guild about this a while back and the mesmers said i was just seeing things lol

Sebrent.3625:

@Trav’s Video post
As far as your video … we both agree you played poorly (why doesn’t matter) so no real point can be made except for “bad play is bad”.

You also used a horrible build … which makes no real point except for “bad build is bad”.

---

@Trav’s “math” attempt

First, you do realize that that is 1,400 damage every 0.25 seconds while most other players autoattacks are 0.5 to 1.5 seconds and many don’t do that much damage even with that gear?

Second, your statement that it increases only Thief 2 is horribly incorrect unless you want to also reduce how much you gain per power/crit/crit damage.

It’s very simple. Base + Damage_Stats = Total_Damage. If you increase either of those numbers, Total_Damage goes up. So if you only improve Base, then both Thief 1 and Thief 2 do more damage.

A build that can 2 v 1 easily with room for mistakes is bad? interesting. a build that can get intot he heart of the enemy and cause problems dmdg and conditions is bad? interesting

u really have to stop talkign. a thief does not hit every .25 seconds. the first to auto attacks are realistically .5 .5 then the next to are like 1 and 1.5 …cmon dude ur so far off. the math was estimated on hits.

McFribble.2349:

Shadowskill.9852:

McFribble.2349:

ski.4927:

I also think that things like dodging, casting caltrops, casting other certain abilities, and stomping should all break stealth. But that’s just me. I am perfectly happy stealth staking people for now.

And once stealth gets buffed to keep a thief in stealth until attacking or hurt, then that will fly. Until then, we have 10 seconds of stealth max for one skill, and dramatically less for all others.

Yes, there are ways to cheese huge stealth times, just like how every class has some sort of mechanic they can cheese as well with a specific build.

And of coarse I’d add that while in stealth your doing NO damage. But everyone should know this by now. Stealth spammers contribute NOTHING, ZIP, ZERO.

In less your just trolling a group for the hell of it. At some point you will have to attack and get revealed.

That’s exactly my point. While in stealth, you aren’t doing anything. By knocking someone out of stealth for taking damage will basically mean a Thief in WvW will NEVER be able to stealth and sustain it. Just barely touching the mass of AoE being thrown everywhere will make sure of that.

Now, if a Thief could sustain stealth indefinitely until attacking or attacked, then they could safely get within melee range to attack by going AROUND the fight. But this isn’t going to happen, and neither will damage breaking stealth. Anet has put the Thief in a bad spot, and the GW2 community is clearly too…uninformed to know that stealth isn’t an EZWIN button. I honestly wish Anet would get rid of it, and redesign Thieves from the ground up. No matter how many times Thieves are QQnerfed, players will still be too “uninformed” to adapt to stealth as a mechanic without actually PLAYING the thief to see first hand how many drawbacks the class comes with.

this really is the problem. stealth is strong. its hard to dealth with@!
but just as strong as stealth is….our defense/hp is equally as weak.

Dasorine.1964:

Teamkiller.4315:

Thieves also never had Jon Peters come to their forum say “we know your class is the most in need of help” and then experience mostly nerfs for the 5 months after that.

Rangers lol

You know what? BM rangers (one of two viable builds) are even MORE 1v1 oriented and useless than thieves in group situations. They do gripe a lot but I’ve never EVER seen them posit suggestions to buff their class on the level of absurdity that some of the topics in the forum like remove revealed, give thief 6 utilities, make them steal the entire skillbar of an enemy have.

Also countering dagger pistol requires a pretty specific skill. You need to interrupt their leap with a ranged attack. I know other D/P’s can do it with headshot, and rangers can use SB 5. Guardians can push them out of the circle with shield 5 but tbh they prefer to save that for when the thief SR’s. Mesmer can use GS 5 (although that’s also better for pushing the thief outta SR), etc etc.

Thats only because daecollo generally seems to play thief and warrior

Also it doesnt need to be a ranged interupt for the HS stopping you just have to not stand in the field, melee attacks can reach nearly entirely across the field without standing in it.

true true true.