Guild Wars 2

i will admit i have only played mesmer prolly 40 or so matches so my personal playtime is limited on them but im talking on full zerk builds where thieves hve 10.8k hp warriors 17.9k hp and mesmers 16.8k hp. thieves also have very low toughness as base. u will always hit a thief harder than a mesmer and then theres the Hp difference. im not complaining or anything just cant wait til they up thief base damage so we can more freely trait ourselves without worrying about dmg so much.(as they ahve stated)

exactly. i agree :P

Grimwolf.7163:

TreeSerpent.3176:

when they can down a player in 1 to 3 hits?

Because they can’t.
The glassiest cannon in all Berserkertown could not kill a fellow glass cannon in 1-3 hits.
I don’t think you could kill an up-leveled level 2 in WvW in a single hit.

u can….but u die right after usually.

yeah. im a thief and even i think black powder shot needs to be shaved a lil :P its so strong. makes a GS look like somebody ribbon dancing half the time. (nothing violent but looks pretty so to speak)

i didnt say m esmer was reliable. but more reliable. when all 3 play burst mesmer and warrior ahve so much more hp which leaves room for mistakes and gives extra time to stay on the offensive. for instance if all classes take 1k dmg per second and all 3 classes are on the offense….which class has to stop first and enter defensive/heal/escape mode? also those 3 weapons are super slow…if u dont think so ur just wrong…srry its a well know fact. there are several threads about the issue too. so how exactly do i not know what im talking about mr troll sir? you know that like 80% of your messages are in response to mine? you have a thing for me or something? they all hate too….not only hate they have no content to them. give an example dont just hate. say “you are wrong bc bleh bleh bleh” not "you know nothign…i am sunflowers…the end " lol cmon man bring something to the table i dont mind a good debate or a different point of view. and there is no law of the world that says i am invariably correct on this topic or any just as there is none that makes you so. get of your high horse . holy wow.

if ur using a condi build with high hp its really nice bc by the time it procs u have nothing left and its an emergency escape. but yeah in lower hp builds it really can be a curtain call for the thief. it does blind so there is a small chance u can recover but still.

thief burst requires perfect variables…..warriors/mesmers just go at it. thief dps is the most unreliable of the 3 classes topping the category. only dagger is fast enough to stack up with warrior. 1hs pistol and bow are sloooooooooooow lol (part of which is buggy i think due to “.25s” activations acting like 1 sec activations.

true true. just wish we had and f2 like poison or devourer venom even if poison was like 4 seconds or the immob was 1.5 secfonds. f3 would be an escape skill….idk likeshadowstep in the direction you are running 600 range even….which is only a little but i mean anything would be fine really is what im trying to say.

nobody good brings assassins signet. and yes warrior is the best at SPRINTING AWAY. we arent talkign stealth bc with stealth u dont have to run away. are you dumb? seriously stealth has NOTHING to do with “running away” its a free pass. no sprint no rush no leap no running no swiftness no teleport involved. lets have a race….ill get a lvl 80 warrior and you a lvl 80 thief. we will race from SW spawn of any borderlands up and around and back down to the SE spawn of same borderlands. ill bet you 100g that you(thief) will NOT win. im so serious about this. im on dragonbrand server. i really hope you take this bet.

and your a hypocrite? subterfuge isnt part of in combat mobility but its part of leaving combat mobility to get away? hows that work? :P

again you missed the point? the HP shows a big deal.. thief is def not the best burst….bc in my opinion burst is more than a 2 skill combo. and im willing to bet the probability of both CND and BS successfully hittin consecutively are around well less than 25%. CND misses easily 50% and BS as well….between blocks….dodges…evades….stunbreak skills….blinds….invulenrabilty….aegis…. runnign away….or hitting front(issues on both). so im sure uve been thru hs algebra ya? .50×.50 is .25 (25%). lets say 40% is average crit rate for all thief builds (non condi builds) and lets now figure out the crit chance of hitting 2 successful crits on both skills. so our equation is {P(A+B) = P(A) x P(B)} so we now fill it in. Y = {.4(.5) x .4(.5)} math done…. Y= .04 ….so a 4% chance having both hit AND both crit.
can i ask how old you are? you seem to only respond to my posts….major trolling. im guessing well younger than me.

ps nobody spams HS. i only use it personally when under 25% hp aka a finishing blow. and the hp is like what 40% less or whatever for similar to less dps than warrior? hrm. armor same deal.

lack of knowledge? really i did all the from memory…interesting. and i wasnt discussing balancing…i was displaying the fact that guardians have access to a large number of blocks/aegis applications. L2 Read. and i have no idea how they work? interesting. you only need to play either class for a month to really master them. i only have 2 lvl 80s and rest are 50ss 60s . thief and guardian. but i have no idea what im talkin about. keep reading google :P pfft. all those i mentioned have blocks of any sort.

2607 hours 31 mins on my thief. some is obviously afk time. but still. and i dont accuse you of anything :P

msg me in game ill ping all my gear 0_o add me “Orro the sly”

i use it and save a good one up depending on situation ….just bad that it covers steal when u do that

yes sunflower… my 2ndary is guardian. its the only 2 classes i can say i have “mastered” blocks are blocks….gonna say blocks that dont do both arent blocks? :P pffft or blocks that go away after 1 for everyone dont block? cmon thats silly. blocks are blocks. if they block an attack they block an attack. point is that guardians have many many ways to block attacks. obviously they arent going to us the wrong ones at wrong time. if u stand in the middle of sanctuary sure…ur right…but i guess thats what a nub does :P and i was thinking protection 3 secs

oh and you dont have enough time to do that combo…MAAAAAAAAAYBE if u were rightontop of them as you used fear and they were slow reacting. its a 2 sec fear right?

dont get me wrong i love the telport very much …very fun. flows with build too. i just dont get excited on the numerical values so to speak on what it can do.

huh? what do you mean by that? revamping what?

Mindtrick.5190:

ski.4927:

I play a thief, and I am still a beast.
A good friend of mine is a thief. He is still a beast.

When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
The weak whine on forums, reroll, or quit…

^ preach!

Oh and I’d like to add I don’t pve or else I’d play WoW. When I do run a dungeon (only new ones) I don’t respec or change gear. I just equip pistols instead of daggers and run out of red circles. The AI in this game is so easy to defeat no idea how people fail in pve or say its not fun. What’s the bar for fun anyway? When you get loot?

u nailed it on the head….pve is super easy….but it dictates your playstyle as you have to range everythign :/ thats the QQ

resolute healer – multiple blocks on reviving. (X amount of damage)
courageous return – extra VoC on rally
valorous defense – aegis on 50% hp every time
shield of avenger – summon shield that blocks for party
santuary – AOE blocks multiple melee and ranged 6 secs
retreat – party aegis
virtue of courage – party aegis
renewed focus – multiple blocks plus 1 aegis (VoC) 3 secs
shelter – multiple blocks while healing 2 secs

protector strike 3 blocks
shield of absorption multiple blocks 4 secs

would hate to forget to mention wall of reflection and line of warding as “kind of block skills” :P

well i was talkign skills/dmg/healing/abilities/mechanics ….not scouting…leading….commanding…..camp capping…..point bunkerings…more of the tangible.

anyway. burst belongs more to warriors/mesmers. blurr and shatter outdo thief and so does warrior…wont even bother going into kill shot builds. thief is close to warrior tho…very very close 3rd. the only burst a thief has is CnD BS. anyway big difference in zerkers THIEF 10.8k hp. wwarrior 18.Xk hp mesmer 16.8k hp. yeah i guess u could add bleed stacking in there..but just bleeds. condis goes to necros/engies. chasing targets goes to warrriors. subterfuge is partof in combat mobility . so a thief leads : bleed stacking…..in combat mobility and stealthing…. even tho the last 2 are kinda part of each other :P …

ranged? :P not as much…maybe blast finishing pre battle buffs. i think as long as it takes like 3 people to set up a anti stealth field …thieves will survive the hit just fine.

many ways for guardian to apply aegis. a good many.

9 shots per pistol , total of 16 shots made me giggle a little lol

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

With the new traps coming into play, revealed should be completely removed, its not needed anymore if you can trap a stealthed foe.

Known for continually introducing thief changes that would be OP, including suggesting that thieves get all deceptions skills on f2 3 and 4 leaving them to choose other utilities for free and suggesting that a thief be able to steal an entire other profession’s utility bar and use all utilities twice in a row with improvisation.

Travlane.5948:

interesting idea. i have to 2nd this.

Someone who is also constantly on the outlook for how thief is worse than other classes and ignores how thief outperforms others in the same way.

Please, wait until the change is instituted before you suggest anything waaay overboard like…this…holy mother of god

i dont say thieves are worse at everything. never anywhere even once. i never said thieves are teh best at certain things. ill even make a list:

Best at :

1) In combat mobility
2) Stealthing

am i missing any?

11 days….then we get to find out how angry we will be lol

interesting idea. i have to 2nd this.

yeah thief F mechanics are quite lacking. i mean just look at is in the perspective of what each classes does without traiting into them. steal is just a gap closer and usually dont get a useful item. useful is the feathers/whirl boons are ok but since thieves invis alot they dont get much use out of it…

@Authority. the 1% per intiative is like a sarcastic joke to me its like heres an extra 15 % dmg but only for auto attack and ONLY if u dont use initiative. it prolly averages around 3% dmg extra. i mean its prolly nice for an opening mug burst…..oh…wait nvm…we dont have that….yeah its not a good trait :P

if you are traveling with a partner theres no way a GC thief should win. period. if they do you suck :P not trying to be mean but its a L2 kitten ue. i prefer fighting GC thieves over ANYONE else in the game. literally….serve em up plz.

when i say horrendous….we have a 45 sec timer on an F mechanic that is no longer a huge dmg skill. boon ripping is never traited for as its more skill for a “lets deal dmg” kind of build even tho its in “condition” trait line. even if u steal them its a 45 sec recharge for probably …on average… a 5-6 sec boon.
2k dmg? pfft averages 800-1100 on average attack build. 2k would be full traited 10k hp kind of zerk build.
might fury swift is good but again its more of a damage dealer still stuck in condi line.
nope.not really semantics…i understand what you mean…it is in addition to but not directly relating to or having a sub definition there of…. but yeah its kinda splitting hairs like saying aegis guardian F mechanics cause burning. do they ? no…..but aegis causes burning if traited.

my point on his 4k top end INSTANT dmg skill…. was that its not far of from the 6k mug dmg. but its not tweaked or downgraded…… so you cant really avoid a teleport dmg skill unless u are already mid roll :P so idk what u mean by not doing my job. nobody can respond at a -.01 sec response time.

and no matter how you look at it….added traits or not F Steal doesnt compare to any other classes F mechanics….

PhelanDisturbed.1650:

Thieves are challenging to use? Hardly. Challenging to master? Fully. I’ve had several thieves try to gank me using their typical combo, but freak out and run away when I counter it in some way. It’s easy to be a noob ganker, but there are too many 1 trick pony thieves that have no idea what to do. Hell, I’ve had the same thief try the SAME tactic 4 times in a 20 minute Window, failing each time.

However I’ve been killed by thieves of skill… imo thieves are prefectly fine as is… They can do considerable damage in a short time, can play slippery to make up for lower stats, etc. Most of the 1vX videos I’ve seen of thieves in wvw, their targets are just morons running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Hearing thieves complaining of low hp and Armor are tiring. Most survivability comes from tactic, and you don’t need to be burst or gtfo if you have tactic. When playing my thief I do just fine wearing my target down before bursting. Although my burst isn’t as big as most thieves, it’s more than enough to “finish the job”.

Lastly; as far as going with the zerg, it doesn’t make much sense for a thief to bring tons of group support to me. They have some, and offer some combo fields but they shine in roaming and/or ambush, as to be expected from a thief.

nicely said. i agree with most of it. same as i stated tho: thieves are very challenging to play or play “well” rather. same with d/d ele….any nub can switch elements and spam skills then switch again but switching ot the right one at the right time and choosing a skill order appropriate to the situation is not so easy. same with thieves.

@shadow stop trolling kiddo. really. i told u that was my first 2 videos and it didnt save right or something. it was from 1 hour of coverage. yish’s video is prolly 2 weeks + of footage playing everyday. i dont even know how to cut stuff out yet. i can only splice more than 1 scene together. im still learning. anyone can do 1 v 2s and survive. pfft its a joke. i finish with pretty much full health doing so too.

heres 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRKxsOFCFzY ill make sure in 2 weeks ill make a 1 hour video of these so i can pretend to look pro like other video goers :P pfft stop trolling kid

ps the oppositition comment of mine was about upscales in videos as i never will put them in mine. and the t2 comment was about something along the lines of “maybe its different in your server…but im my server t2 theres not as many on especially at night and even if there is i never target them” its kinda embarassing to post a video picking on upscales….or sarcastic at least

@sorrow

Necro Aoe damage skills:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grim_Specter
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_Transfer
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Water
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Necrotic_Grasp
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feast
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frozen_Abyss
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Catch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Feast
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Putrid_Explosion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrosive_Poison_Cloud
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Locust
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Suffering
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Darkness
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Wind
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wave_of_Fear
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Mark
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mark_of_Blood
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilblains
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Swarm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Corruption
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Grasp
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crimson_Tide
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wicked_Spiral
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Feast
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Scythe
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Locust_Swarm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wail_of_Doom
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Touch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Enfeebling_Blood

so necros have little access to aoe dmg?

and im comparing dmg ignoring stuff like CC even tho that would help argument. necros are MUCH better in larger group play. bring facts when u come. not JUST opinions.

@Ralathar

- the only thing good about steal is the poison and positioning. the rest is horrendous.
-Steal doesnt cause weakness. Poison does. i get where u are going but im being 100
-have seen guardian teleport do 3800-4k dmg AND burn. no nerf here?
-shatters are uncomparebly stronger and they have 4 x more F mechanics.

@ general

thieves have always been good and were OP in the roaming sense…and iknow im beating a dead horse here but ROAMING solo = stupidity. you deserve to die. you could meet a 100 zerg or a 20 zerg or a 3 man squad capping camps. either way you are dead. a thief is rarely usefull other than venom share/blast finish in a zerg….his bone is that he ’Could" burst (past tense) and escape. now there is no burst. just a 2 hit combo. thief is still pretty good in 1 v 1 but they do lose alot. nubs lose against thieves alot its true woahhhhhhhoah it is truuuuuuuuuuue. they have dumbed this game down for players since gw1 to increase a larger age parameter in target audience. they have done well but they left some classes that take skill/exp to play like d/d ele or s/d thief and d/p thief. hard classes to play. warrior is the “starter” build (not that its weak…far from it) but it is easy to play and do decent to well at.

obviously sorrow is not good at math …which is better in a 5 v 5 battle?

A) 5 people doing 1100 damage to 5 targets that have 16.8k hp
B) 5 people doing 2000 damage to 1 target that has 16.8k hp

the correct answer is A.
Lets say each class lands each damage at same rate(1 second per hit dmg) just for comparison. The thief team needs collectively 9 hits of 2k damage against each enemy to kill their 5 targets in the 5 v 5 fight. This means 9 seconds total until each opponent is dead/downed, granted no heals or dmg mitigation of sorts. Now lets say the necro is attacking the same but each is doing 1100 damage to each enemy per second. this means the necro team would need 3 attacks each (cumulatively 6k damage in total each attack) to down/kill the 5 target thieves. if you look at it in a mathematical sense…. the necros are betting in group play. in 1 v 1 it would obviously flip.

Fun Fact: Under this scenario a thief would have to hit each target for 6k per hit each second just to tie the necros and would need 8.4k each hit to out damage the necro/win against them in a 5 v 5.

lets not even go into a computer simulated fight and suggest they each time chain AOE’s and Fears…would be a joke.

Sebrent.3625:

@random: blurred frenzy does its damage over a 2 second channel during which the mesmer is immobilized and performing a very obvious attack. if it hits for 8k, it is in the scenario I laid out before and the person hit needs to get better.

@Travlane:
(1) Making a video to prove your own point doesn’t really help since you can play horribly intentionally, which happened. If I had a better rig, I could go intentionally play like garbage on my Mesmer to “show how bad it is”.

There are plenty of videos out there showing the complete opposite.

(2) Glass cannon doesn’t mean you have to take all signets and pop them at the beginning. A good glass cannon uses their utilities for stunbreaking, condition removal, mobility, etc.

Their are no other recent videos that show 18-19k backstabs and do well doing it. maybe in duels……perhaps…but not in anything were 2 people are attacking you and have the common sense to bring stun breaks. u can change the whole signets to all defensive/stealth utilities and i still would not have survived that killing both. yet in the following video…..its cuppycake

@randomfightfan yeah i still have 1 hand and its hard for me to play. but i didnt put much effort into fighting as i knew i was doomed if there is more than 1 person around anyway. was just trying to show that basically i could out dps both of them put together but have no real chance of winning a fight against 2 average players or better. yes i could have started from stealth but it would decrease my damage. if u want super high dmg that peopel QQ about it comes at a price….HP…defense…utilities wasted….basically makes you a sitting duck!

now on the other hand with same effort and mistakes its easier on a different build :

doesnt matter….thief burst is NOT playable. never was. even with mug doing 6k. ill show you why :P heres a video

sure i can hit big. but lets see it in a small fight. i added 4k hp to full zerk build so nobody can say well thats a stupid idea to run zerk. this is thief zerk build that also has HP.

as you will see its just not viable…..period. doesnt matter how strong thieves can cap at….it is nto playable :p

Sebrent.3625:

Here we are in agreement, Travlane. I think it’s a bit unfair that they can mist through the door/portal of a tower/keep. No other class can do that or anything close to it with their downed ability … except warriors, though they die from vengeance. Given that elementalists are already excellent in sieges, I don’t see why they needed this.

thieves have a downed"shadow step" it wont go thru sally :P

the mug cnd bs b uild was strong but it was a "kill one person if they arent quick responders then get the he** out of dodge before anyone kills you and wait 60 secs to try it again) in zerg setting it wouldnt work bc of all the aoes and incidental dmg.

thief full zerks = 10.8k hp
mes full zerks = 16.9k hp

and now mes has more burst than thieves (which by definition are not supposed to)

stealth is plenty balanced IMO ….goes at a severe disadvantage and many shortcomings

Shemsu.8721:

TheGuy, is stealth balanced in WvW. NOTHING is balanced in WvW. WvW by design is an unbalanced enviroment. Is it balanced that a blocking char or mist form ele, or mesmer with distortion up still counts as taking a supply camp but a thief in stealth does not? No its not balanced. because WvW by design is unbalanced

hrm. good point…interesting. i do hate how mist form can enter sally ports. :P imagine if 80 eles were in a tower ….they could all take turns going down and use all aoe skills in front of tower …then just die after exhausting all their skills/dmg then m ist forming back inside to be revived by allies. would the tower ever be taken? might take hours at best. so is mist form balanced? nope :/

Sebrent.3625:

@Travlane: I don’t care how it is applied. I care that it stacks.

@Shemsu: So one set of skills is not allowed to stack with anything but another is allowed to because of the way they are thrown down? We’ll have to agree to disagree.

I think Puru nailed it on the head why it’s like this … inability to come up with a workaround for the wall skills. However, that doesn’t excuse that ArenaNet allows other skills to stack it.

What’s also amusing is that various boons and conditions have caps on their durations. For example, confusion can only last 10 seconds max. There is a cap on it. Why they didn’t cap stealth to 5s is beyond me.

unfortunately thats how it matters though…application…..mesmer skills dont create fields u can leave/blast and dont have the direct “invis” or “stealth” utilities….they all do area or target ground. i think one doesnt tho i forgot the name

randomfightfan.4091:

I just hope that the traps allow us to keep our invis buffs (ie not revealing) but instead just making us visible to the enemy. Kind of sounds counter intuitive but it would balance it so the thief isn’t completely neutered in a fight.

or maybe just give our characters a thing red outline? i might be able to live with that…or better yet a light red glow on the silouhette

ill be honest but qualify it by telling me what do you mean by “balanced” ….are we talking combat? evasion? targeting? thief specific stealth? mesmer specific stealth? ranger specific stealth? engineer specific stealth? with trade offs? in 1 v 1 setting? in zerg setting?

if talking zerg setting….. yes its quite balanced (veil is arguable tho)
if talking 1 v 1 setting….. probably not (although if nerfed thieves are not playable)
if talking thief alone……. id have to say yes bc of the dozen or so drawbacks.
if talking other classes ….yes
if talking in combat……situationally yes situationally no

and thats being 100% honest.
if u want me to say what is OP about thieves…i can make a quick list.

Black powder shot – blind pulse shouldnt be as long/fast (devastating against melee)
prolly more if i had time to think

TheGuy.3568:

Travlane.5948:

TheGuy.3568:

PearlGore.7419:

Warriors can escape just as easy as any Thief btw. If I Don’t want to die on my Warrior I most likely will not.

As easily? Hell no. I agree I can escape on my warrior but the exaggerations need to end. Stealth goes far beyond just moving fast. No class can escape like thief. There is no comparison. Sure you can out run a mob on warrior but there is no way you are going to do it as easily as you can on most thief builds.

pearl gore is right. i had infiltrators step …shadowstep….steal…..infiltrators strike….heartseeker…50% speed while invis….swiftness on dodge and devourer venom and basilisk venom with my d/p + s/d build …very typical 0 30 20 20 0 build that has lots of intiative lots of mobility….and i chased this warrior around the map. i couldnt keep him stopped long enough and do enough dmg to down him….mind you he only was trying to escape and not fight…. but i couldnt do much without an oldschool burst.

Did he ever stealth and leave combat? Yeah you can build a warrior fast full melee set. You can get the same mobility with D/any alone and you still get shortbow for range.

we get similar mobility. but theres also 2 kinds of mobility (in combat evasion and escape) . Thieves have great in combat evasion …..but outside of that they have heartseeker and shadowstep. infiltrators/steal needs targets so unless ur chasing its useless :P. infiltrators arrow only has like 650 range maybe a lil less (yes it reads 900 but its not and u would know that if u were a thief). the good thing for warriors is alot of their mobility is linked to their weapons and have incredible speed bursts/leaps.

TheGuy.3568:

PearlGore.7419:

Warriors can escape just as easy as any Thief btw. If I Don’t want to die on my Warrior I most likely will not.

As easily? Hell no. I agree I can escape on my warrior but the exaggerations need to end. Stealth goes far beyond just moving fast. No class can escape like thief. There is no comparison. Sure you can out run a mob on warrior but there is no way you are going to do it as easily as you can on most thief builds.

Edit

Stealth is OP in wvw not everywhere else. Instead of nerfing us like they did before in PvE also they decided to but an item in that a targeted nerf wvw only. STOP whining!

also know when they nerf stealth they are not just nerfing the invis mechanic that makes us hard to see/target… they are nerfing :

Condition Removal
Thousands and Thousand of HP heals
70% of total dmg (effect from being revealed/visible)
Blinding enemies
Initiative regeneration
Initiative gain
Boon Gain (regen/might etc)
Increased Movement speed

…..unfortunately everything good for a thieves defense and a good portion of our offense is tied to stealth. its different when u keep it in perspective to what is tied to stealth and not just the “hey i cant see this troll” point

TheGuy.3568:

PearlGore.7419:

Warriors can escape just as easy as any Thief btw. If I Don’t want to die on my Warrior I most likely will not.

As easily? Hell no. I agree I can escape on my warrior but the exaggerations need to end. Stealth goes far beyond just moving fast. No class can escape like thief. There is no comparison. Sure you can out run a mob on warrior but there is no way you are going to do it as easily as you can on most thief builds.

pearl gore is right. i had infiltrators step …shadowstep….steal…..infiltrators strike….heartseeker…50% speed while invis….swiftness on dodge and devourer venom and basilisk venom with my d/p + s/d build …very typical 0 30 20 20 0 build that has lots of intiative lots of mobility….and i chased this warrior around the map. i couldnt keep him stopped long enough and do enough dmg to down him….mind you he only was trying to escape and not fight…. but i couldnt do much without an oldschool burst.

@ TOOBZ i totally agree. either way you look at it….its another nerf (no matter big or small) against thieves. like what…28th nerf? weve gotten one buff LS (thief specific buff…not including things like signets that are all classes). all these add up. thief burst is dead. we only have a combo now….CND BS…..not complaining as have to just accept it or quit/no spend money. so all im saying its its adding up.

image/diversion are long cooldowns? mug is 45 secs but that was nerfed.

he said they CAN hit burst for 34k. not a fallacy.
point is thieves werent the only ones that could do uber burst dmg.

the build does not crumble against anyone. its not made for a 1 v 1. its made so they are lost in the fray ……and snipe out players for huge dmg….OP dmg…

thief isnt op. i mean if wvw = 1 v 1 then sure ill agree. but since 1 v 1 does nothin other than tickle/boost ego it shouldnt matter. just my 2 cents.

ps. anyone tell me what TL;DR means? ive seen it a hundred times but never saw the acronym broken down.