Guild Wars 2

HEY you thief….wait….. lol you are a thief dammit . i was trying this as i was talking to you in game. still not too big on it. just got word from the devs thakittens going to be 21 secs on steal not 17.5 bc they ahve a different definition from “rate of recharge”

evilapprentice.6379:

JonPeters.5630:

Recharge rate means the speed at which it recharges, so it recharges 30% faster not 30% shorter recharge. Think of it this way.

New recharge time = (old time / 1.3) not (old time* 0.7)

So, they’ve been malfunctioning since Day 1, is what you’re saying? I pretty distinctly recall my Steal being listed as a 32s CD when I was 30 trickery a few months ago (45s – 13.5s, rounded up)

YES THIS IS WHAT im saying! the 45 × .7 formula which he is saying is wrong was applied to steal before this patch! so its def changed since. i distinctly remember it working like this before the patch bc its the first thing i tried as it was the ONLY bright spot for us!

@fade lol hes a game designer but i think hes NOT on the balancing team wh ich is in charge of all the changes. he prolly has to veto/ratify power but not on the actual change team.

@jon i get that but its also misleading bc the recharge rate is like a speed rather than an actual time.

basically its a “you gain X% per Y time”

so 35 seconds = 100% fully recharged skill.

this means that the true rate of recharge is 1 second = 2.857 % of the skill being fully recharged.

to increase that “rate of recharge” you would have to increase the 2.857% by an additional 30% or basically 2.857 × 1.3 (because its really a decrease in total time)

so with 30 in trickery you get 3.714% of total recharge per 1 second of time passed.

AKA 100/3.714 =26.925 total time for steal to recharge.

your TRUE rate of recharge at base is 1 second = 2.857 %

TL DR : RATE OF RECHARGE for any given f mechanic should be 1 second = 2.857 %

@geiir lol yeah. wierd that it was 31 seconds from 45 before the patch…….. wonder why it changed?

JON! plz define “recharge rate” if u dont mind. since “increasing” makes it sound like its going to be longer :P

lol siege arrow range is like 3x what our shortbow is. we will never be able to do anythign :/

@geiir yes all those are coming next (not sarcasm)

@KAON ranger longbow doesnt reach 1200 or 1500?

so it matched before the patch for us now it doesnt? and the tooltip is bugged in general? or just on what? mind if u specify? i know for a fact steal always said 31 seconds before the patch with 30 in trickery. this is the first time ive noticed a bug. im so familiar with it that i noticed it withing minutes of logging after the patch. :P

they are killing shortbow slowly but they are doing it. trick shot. 2nd cluster bomb nerf. IA useless. 4 now half as useful bc of weakness nerf.

btw d/p is always better for roaming. you NEED stealth in wvw or any 3 player scan just come kill you right quick.

@dina no shortbow should be at 900 range. warriors/guardians/rangers can leap farther. cluster bomb is worst nerf bc it is our only 1200 range attack. its suuuuuper slow so its not like it wasnt 1200 for a reason. and we cant fire another til the 3 secs are up and it hits lol. so cant spam it.

so what the skill is uber slow you could outrun it in combat mode and doge orblock etc. none of anets team plays a thief main ive heard so prolly hwy. im ready to quit this game. its getting boring and dulled/dumbed down. i miss being able to do fun stuff….shadowstep up stairs/hills. stuff like that. no range on shadow return. things that arent killing people are really OP are getting nerfed. weakness on sword every 20 secs? wtf is that. yeah like thats so helpful lol. id rather ust take it off and add 5% dmg to the sword.

really? its always been 31.5 secs for me. which is 45x .7 sooo yeah. its worked before. HELL so cant say for other classes

crying? sorry son i dont think u understand thatt word :P im pointing out an error/bug. no matter HOW you look at it there IS a bug/error. hard to read your comment too by the way.

wtf does this mean: “you know what this crappy “INCREASING” recharge rate has been here since released and every classes suffered this.” ?

anyway i was looking forward to 17.5 seconds as the tooltip says bc they took away our stun break on s/d. and this basically gives us a safety for when we are stuned we can still stun back.

ok if it said the base recharge rate is 100%. 100% of x? what is X? x is unspecified so it can only be considered X. so a rate of recharge is the base X. you cant say its 100%. when he says 100% he means the base recharge rate. so its really the recharge rate is 30% faster. so you can say its 1.3 or 130%. basically its 30% faster than it is now. x is basically 35. the rate of cooldown is x and x takes 35 seconds. math is all about definitions. so fortunately the way it supposed to be is 17.5 secs or 24.5 depending on trait\s

@pavel …exactly. they need to buff everyone to make them even. not nerf. the problem is that every class is supposed to be self reliant rather than having roles. thats why they got rid of monks and also had a larger target gaming audience. marketing decisions took over actually gaming intelligence :P this game is going to be dead b4 the 1 year mark.

so again as i said my math is right and so is theirs. the coding was done incorrectly. tis a bug and thats it.

EDIT: you guys that dont agree are just misreading/misinfering their kitten poor english/grammar

heres another with out the sleight of hand and only 30 in trickery.

@frans wrong. ….again look at the pic i posted. plus the math above. its correct and everything points to that. heres 2 to prove it lol.

STEAL COOLDOWN is at 21seconds instead of the 17.5 its supposed to be. plz help with a hotfix? we got nerfed to hell as usual so kinda looking forward to using this thank you.

i think s/d is no longer a viable build in spvp. could be wrong but time will tell.

it kind of makes me think of the bow and arrows i made when i was 6 out in the woods with a boyscout knife and string. :P lol game is just soooo cool sometimes

so trickery DOES decrease cooldown. let me break it down for you…
first i will say their linguistic and grammatical skills are kitten poor at best not that im taking much effort to make mine top notch for quick posts but yeah u know.

recharge rate: the SPEED at which a cooldown takes place. think of this as a bar being depleted over time. timing that bar you come up with a number.

this means that increasing the recharge rate makes the rate at which it depletes go faster.

0% increased skill recharge rate = base cooldown = 35 seconds

30% increased skill recharge rate = 35seconds X .7

nyuuneechan you are wrong. anets math is right they just coded it wrong. here ill show you bud. look at tooltip. like i said 17.5 secs

Excalibur.9748:

Lokheit.7943:

Excalibur.9748:

Lokheit.7943:

Excalibur.9748:

Lokheit.7943:

Excalibur.9748:

how does weakness work worse than before? it’s a LOT better, it’s really a good buff for us.

It procs half the times than before. The change they made is how it was supposed to work from the very beginning as it made no sense that an atribute distribution would negate a condition by itself.

Lotus Poison nerf (specially such a brutal and weird per target nerf) was completly uncalled and unnecesary.

no it was buffed compared to leaked. check it again

Weakness: Changed from 50% fumble on regular attacks to 50% fumble on all attacks. Now only stacks up to 5 times (still stacks duration).

If that is true the it’s working as intended.

Absolute zero need to put a freaking 20 seconds cooldown on Lotus Poison.

it’s a D/D D/P nerf. it doesn’t really affect S/P S/D. It doesn’t really affect shortbow since shortbow still has #4 into #2.

4 + 2 means wasting your useful combo finishers in your own fields. I’ve been trying the nerfed 4 now and it’s worthless without the weakness. I can no longer help my team mitigating damage with it.

Btw: Mesmer got 5 Torment on a 12 seconds cooldown weapon skill, we got 3 Torment on a 45 seconds utility skill… yay!! And there are people crying for our access to Torment!!

Body Shot instead of that ABSOLUTE MATHEMATICAL GARBAGE that is 10 vuln on 3 seconds cooldown should have got 2 torment aplications and zero weakness and the skill would’ve been fixed.

Skale Venom is still really bad, the number of charges needs to increase for it to be effective.

i don’t see how it’s useless. i mean with the buff to weakness, they said they were gonna make it not as accessible. you don’t blast finish in your own field but you blast in your party’s fields?? Why aren’t they stacked in the same place ?

i agree that the thief didn’t make it out so great with this patch, but at least it was an improvement compared to leaked. the nerf that really hurts me is cluster bomb range reduction. i really like siege warfare.

if u stack more than 1 field in the same place only 1 gets used. one will overide the others :P

if you wanna a physics correct kind of decision maker. long bow should have 1500 range shortbow 1200. bow sstill go really far no matter how you look at it. not even going to touch firearms in this conversation but for god sakes the warriors leap that distance!!!!!! guardians too almost. so a player can leap as far as shortbow shoots? cmon anet get ur heads out ur bums.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Anets-math-on-steal-is/first#post2281800 go heere for the real steal math. its suppposed to be 17.5 secs just as the tooltip says but its 21. its a bug. report it.

yeah i know. this is the only reason s/d is still playable in my opinion. without that stun break we need steal to be a backup for when we get stunned. trying a 10 30 0 0 30 build right now. using zerk gear but might try rampager

you getting 21 secs too?

30% cooldown on steal via 30 points in trickery trait line.
20% cooldown on steal via sleight of hand in grandmaster trait trickery.

Given : Steal’s base cooldown is 35 seconds.

30% + 20% = 50%

50% = .5

35 × .5 = X

X = 17.5

Final Cooldown on steal should be 17.5 seconds.

Can anyone tell me why stealth is 21 seconds? this is a total cooldown of 46.67%.

I can see why some would say thakittens deducted concurrently rather than consecutively but it doesnt read as such. IF that were the case it would say “take and ADDITIONAL 20% off the cooldown of steal” under the description. so either we have more typo problems or ANET fails at math :P

Another way of looking at it is the concurrent multiplicative way. so you take one of the deductions then follow it with the 2nd from the firsts sum

35 × .7 = 24.5 (30% reduce from 30 trait line points)

24.5 × .8 = 19.6 (20% from the sleight of hand)

TL:DR : steal should be 17.5 or 19.6 seconds no matter how you look at it.

have yet to see what im going to change my build into bc of all this rubbish. im trying a 10 30 0 0 30 now. we will see. thinking with trickery i might be able to work a rampagers build. since the stuns are in the friggen condi line :/

cant say im too happy about stun break on the sword. since we lost that i think there will be a need for stealth on that build which means it wont be as viable in spvp. also a double whammy with the extra init on LS. i can see one or the other but both kinda hurt our ONLY NON STEALTH BUILD lol. they should change stealth in pvp to 50% cap speed or something. that is just crazy that we are so useless in spvp.

shadow trap…..well this just sux…i like the idea for supply running but ive been using the skill now for 20 mins or so and have to say it catches on carts….trees….walls….elevations…. useless so far.

underwater combat? advice: dont go in water or you gonna be a dead thief ahah. nuff said i think here.

the trait updates are nice and fair i think. especially on steal bc its our only F mechanic and now we can get it to 17.5 seconds. so we can get a lil heal from it and perma vigor so thats lovely. anet is turning us into evade thieves. however the evades are so short they dont mitigate much dmg. time will change that hopefully.

merciful ambush . lovely however not very usefull on a dead guy only on a downed player. have yet to see if ther is an internal cooldown or not. i assume there is even tho its not listed as the fall dmg trait is the same. long reach? nobody uses it. scorpion wire? too slow doesnt hit although if they sped up the attack id use it alot.

Thief:

Lotus Strike: Increased the poison duration from 2 seconds to 4 seconds.
Shadow Trap: Increased the recharge to 45 seconds.
Destroy Shadow Trap: This ability now teleports the thief back to the trap location when it is destroyed. Added range skill facts. This skill now breaks stuns. Using this skill puts Shadow Trap on recharge.
Shadow Pursuit: This ability now grants fury and 10 stacks of might for 5 seconds along with stealth when used to teleport to the enemy who triggered Shadow Trap. This ability now breaks stuns. Using this skill puts Shadow Trap on recharge.
Death Blossom: This trait now costs 4 initiative.
Body Shot: Reduced the aftercast by .4 seconds. Decreased the vulnerability duration to 3 seconds. Increased to 10 stacks for vulnerability.
Pistol Whip: Decreased the time between the stun and the sword flurry.
Scorpion Wire: Decreased the aftercast by .2 seconds. Reduced the cooldown to 20 seconds.
Signet of Malice: Increased the base heal by 33% of the passive ability.
Steal: Reduced the recharge to 35 seconds.
Cluster Bomb: Decreased the range set from 1200 to 900.
Larcenous Strike: Increased the initiative cost to 2.
Nine Tailed Strike: Increased the initiative cost from 3 to 5.
Shadow Assault: Increased the initiative cost from 5 to 7.
The Ripper: Increased the bleed duration from 5 seconds to 7 seconds.
Deadly Strike:. Increased the damage from 1 to 1.2.
Skale Venom: Replaced weakness with torment.
Dancing Dagger: Reduced the initiative cost to 3.
Shadow Return (Infiltrator Strike Toggle): This skill is no longer a stun breaker.
Withdraw: The travel distance underwater has been cut in half to match the land distance.

Acrobatics
Assassin’s Retreat: This trait now grants 10 seconds of swiftness when players kill a foe. This effect has a 5-second internal cooldown.
Pain Response: Reduced the cooldown from 45 seconds to 30 seconds.
Hard to Catch: Reduced the cooldown from 60 seconds to 30 seconds.
Critical Strikes
Furious Retaliation: This trait now grants 10 seconds of fury when striking a target whose health is below 50%. This effect can only occur once every 30 seconds.
Signets of Power: The 5 stacks of might that this trait grants have been increased to 10 seconds.

Deadly Arts
Corrosive Traps: This trait now grants 5 stacks of vulnerability for 8 seconds (up from 5 seconds).
Sundering Strikes: Vulnerability caused by this trait has been increased from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
Panic Strike: Reduced the cooldown from 60 seconds to 30 seconds.
Lotus Poison: Increased the weakness duration to 4 seconds, but it can only apply once every 20 seconds per target.
Shadow Arts
Last Refuge: Reduced the cooldown of this trait from 90 seconds to 60 seconds.
Slowed Pulse: The effect of this trait now occurs if the player has 2 or more stacks of bleeding.
Shadow Protector: This trait has been changed to apply 10 seconds of regeneration when the players stealth them. This effect will not occur if the ally already has regeneration on them.

Trickery
Merciful Ambush: This trait now grants 2 seconds of stealth to players and their allies when beginning a revive.
Long Reach: This trait now increases the range of Steal to 1500 (up from 1200).
Ricochet: The chance to bounce for this trait has been increased from 25% to 50%.
Sleight of Hand: In addition to dazing the player’s target, this trait now reduces the recharge of Steal by an additional 20%.
Instinctual Response: This trait now properly blinds enemies struck by the feathers. Increased the radius from 120 to 180.
Bountiful Theft: This trait will now trigger before Sleight of Hand.

67.6k on a naked lvl 80. would love to try a lvl 1 tho :P i did 23k on fully armored 80 but then again it could go higher if the right conditions like a thief with full zerker gear on.

Zepidel.5349:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Zepidel.5349:

If I ever came across a thief trying to play healer/support in a dungeon id probably leave in shame.

A ranger/ele combined with a thief’s clusterbomb can do miracles though.
I don’t run support, but when possible I’d shoot clusterbomb on healing springs
Just wanted to comment on that part :P

Ya i have too many bad experience with thiefs in dungeons using stupid kitten like pistols or trying to run condition/support. They are the reason people dont like thiefs in PvE. A D/D thief out dps a zerker warrior anyday.

and they die in 1 hit from a boss doing it. the reason thieves arent liked in groups for dungeons is bc they keep having to revive them every 3 seconds and they offer 0 support. not bc they run stupid builds. if u wanna see whos good/bad take all good players with all good builds then compare. not take a bad player/build then compare thats just silly.

ive been screaming this at the top of my “keyboard” for many months. QQers QQ about roaming 1 v 1 scenarios and NOTHING more. never heard of complaints in pve or complaints in spvp. hell you never hear of complaints in group fights in wvw. ONLY 1 v 1. and if thats the case we should get mug crit back and many other nerfs. who cares of we kill 1` v 1s. if we could get our burst back which we lost….we would atleast be able to cut off reinforcements or something…maybe kill a mesmer b efore a portal bomb but thats impossible now.

DanH.5879:

for the thieves guild counter you can do a dagger storm = dead thieves + the player thief because the daggers like to bounce
we are meant to fight “dirty”, however duels should have a time limit :P
it’s not more unfair using SR than using the perma dodge build…
just agree before the duel w/o SR or the “untouchable” builds, just to make things fast…

so take away the only 2 kinds of defense a thief has? why duel? lol . i get what ur saying but its like saying in layman’s terms……go zerk backstab or dont play. :P

and as fishergrip said yes FS is powerful against boon oriented builds. but at the same time imagine a thief trying to go up against protection regeneration retaliation stability and aegis. just not a fight he can win if the player is any good. so FS is just a build that really counteracts those annoying bunker builds. anet DOES NOT WANT BUNKERS. hence why there are no monks/clerics and also no vitality healing toughness armor. this is a way to make spvp more interesting and not just hold points with bunker builds.

even spamming 3 3 3 3 we still take alot of dmg doing it. the combination of both skills is less DPS than auto attack and auto attack is really slow…so that says enough but ill continue. flanking striken is .5 secs evade and by the time you finish the LS FS combo til the tim you retry FS ithere is about 2 secs available. .5 evade on a 2.25 sec move. roughly.

17.5 secs total recharge time on steal. 30% +20% = 50% and .50 × 35 = 17.5 . unless its not cumulative % and its singularly decreased so then it would be .8(35x .7) =19.6.

however since the changes are not done in succession it would be 17.5 secs. or each 1 point in the trickery line would give 1% successively and then another 1% then another 1%. doesnt work like that. it is cumulative then deduces from there.

Fade.7658:

Travlane.5948:

problem with trickery is all the builds that use steal/stun are power/crit builds. nobody with condition dmg as a thief cares too awfully much about a 1 sec stun.

Not many condition users go 30 in trickery, either. The more popular builds are a 0/0/30/20/20, or some variation.

Edit: I wasn’t sure if the leaked notes were real, but I figured if they were not, the actual notes would likely be lackluster, and not make much of a difference.

We still don’t know how Torment will be applied yet, either.

yeah exactly. thers no grandmaster trait in there that helps conditions. a stun grandmaster trait should be in power or crit line or something.

problem with trickery is all the builds that use steal/stun are power/crit builds. nobody with condition dmg as a thief cares too awfully much about a 1 sec stun.

d/p is better in wvw hands down. s/d cant get away from 5 people. period :P. s/d is better for capping spvp hands down tho.

@killer angel i bet anet has it somewhere on these forums. question is where. i remember them mentioning it somewhere in the past i just cant recall if a number or % was given.

@dzernumbrd there really isnt anything OP in the suggestions of mine however perhaps if u apply them in venom share i could agree. only a 10% chance on auto attack to cause poison for only a lowly 2 secs? :P when that triggers apply 3 stacks of bleeding for like 5 secs? still a very low chance of happening ….although its passive so every lil bit helps. point is you dont have to put them in your utilities. i like venom share but they neede to superbuff regular venoms and put in a modifier for the venom share like only 1 tick each and half the time or somethign idk.

ps 3 stacks of bleeding when you poinson an enemy wouldnt be a bad grandmaster trait. id pick it especially with a chance at poisoning. so many attacks are missed…blcoked…evaded….blinded….invuln etc thakittens a really low low number. anyway lots of options here but i think we all agree the common denominator is the venom share . it breaks any chance of making venoms strong. take out venom share or modify it and make venoms correct.

you only get like 1.5 secs of stealth or something if you only HS once thru the Black powder shot or MAYBe 2 secs max so if u arent atble to stack it the skill is kinda bunk :P i mean you HAVE to aim it at the enemy and have literally like 1 sec to turn around hope he bares his back to you and doesnt move AT ALL lol….. and 1.5 or 2 secs whatever is not enough time to really get away and re adjust yourself for a new position/attack etc or just plain get away. yeah it would make the skill bunk unless the combo gave a full 3 sec of invis or 4 secs of traited for the +1.

also add if no target then teleports you in that direction you are facing 1200 range.

yeah basically right. venoms are a SLIGHTLY longer version of what weapon conditions do :P. major fail on anets part.

i think its hard to tell without anet killerangel. can never estimate a silent majority. only speculate.

@mirra only time will tell. but if they do stop stun break it will kill s/d to a nonplayed weaponset agian more than likely.

thieves have had only one real buff so dont hold your breath too long buddy :P (FS-LS) i thought about a difkittend of venom that i DEF would take on any build…check it out.

Coagulated Blood: 40 second cooldown
Target loses all energy with -50% energy regeneration (7 seconds) crippled (5 seconds) 5% vulnerability (5 seconds) for a total of 2 strikes.

any thoughts? would be one helluvan openingn strike. strong but not overpowering. would really let thieves play a build thats non stealth. just go in there hit him and prevent some mobility but not prevent dmg to yourself. would stop the need for stealth and allow you to get into a fight.