“When certain copies of a map need to be closed, the players on those copies will be notified and will have the option to be moved to a different map copy right away.”
If there’s an option of moving to more populated map, why in the world is there no option of moving to LESS populated map? Leaving a map that was becoming empty was simply a metter of logging out and in. Thats hardly an issue. The problem here is a choice for those who DON’T want to compete with 200 other players to get a kill.
So what if there are 100 people playing all all want to play alone. Does Anet have to spawn 20 servers for them? Because spawning that many servers affects the speed/stability of the system for everyone.
It was meant to say that gaming communities are seldom represented by forum posters in any way that is meaningful. This I truly believe and I truly believe most devs would probably agree.
I don’t know if I’d go that far. Yes, some forum communities undoubtedly misrepresent the general pulse of player satisfaction and feedback, but it’s also possible that forum communities can house some of the most fiercely loyal and creatively dedicated players, who want the game to be even better than what it is.
So I think the forum communities can just as easily be misleading as they can voice concerns that no one else will. For example, guilds sometimes have members who complain about various features in a game, but for whatever reason, those same players don’t send their complaints out in any way that a dev can see them. And yet they still have that possibility of quitting the game over something that went too far in the wrong direction.
Sure it’s a possibility, but let’s look at it this way.
Almost all min-maxers are going to be on forums looking at that sort of thing. But almost all casual solo players aren’t going to be. We know a reasonably large percentage of people just solo through MMOs as if it’s a single player game. We know it from stuff said by other devs, and even Anet long before Guild Wars 2 launched, had information about soloing on the FAQ. If it wasn’t an anticipated question, I doubt it would have been there.
You don’t need to go on forums to play Guild Wars 2 like Skyrim and I strongly suspect most people don’t. Those people aren’t interested in dungeons and often aren’t interested in PvP, or even WvW. They just bang around the open world killing stuff. Some might find a champ train. They just hang out and have a good time and kill stuff.
It’s a pretty big segment of the population you’ll never really hear from on a forum.
So when people make statements like there’s nothing new in the game or there’s no content…I’ve heard complaints from people that there’s too much in the game and they keep feeling like they’re falling behind.
You don’t see that represented very often on the forums either.
There are definitely people, however, who asked for updates to be spaced further apart, to keep the pace more relaxed. But you don’t hear from those people all that often, even though I know they’re out there.
The Ghostcrawler quote was actually about Sunwell Plateau (one of the longest and hardest raids from BC era WoW) and has since been taken out of context more often than not to downplay the inclusion of difficult instanced content. Only 2 percent of the player base actually completed the raid (before the next expansion came out…and the expansion followed shortly on the heels of Sunwell Plateau), but he never gave stats on how many actually tried or attempted the content. It was one of the reasons given for the easier raiding content in WotLK.
Many people at the time were leery of starting up yet another raid when an expansion was releasing soon, which would institute yet another jump in power levels almost immediately just from completing 5 man instances and open world quest chains. It spoke more about timing of the release rather than the type of content itself. If 2 percent ever actually only played the content, they just wouldn’t include it.
Well Lotro stopped making raids altogether and they said 2% of the population raided, period end stop. This was very recent, within the last couple of months. But he said the forums didn’t reflect that at all.
The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.
Source? Or did you make it up?
snip
We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.
Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.
http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/
This is a good place to start.
Different types of gamers. Console vs. PC.
Yep, it is a different type of gamer. But over the years we’ve heard quotes from devs and stuff that blow our minds. LIke x percent of people have never been to a trait screen, and stuff like that.
The biggest percentage, yes, I don’t have an exact percentage, of gamers are really casual. THey go to work, they come home, they pop on the game in the way people used to drop down in front of TVs. Even most computer gamers.
The thing is, this is not one source that says X. This is gleaned from maybe ten, twelve years of following gaming in many interviews and having read many papers. There’s also the 80/20 rule which you can google. There’s all sorts of varations on it. 20% of the population makes almost all the posts. Everyone else is just a lurker. I know those stats are true from a forum I moderated where I got to see the stats.
The number of posts and probably even views on these forums wouldn’t come close to accounting for the size of the user base. Just stop and think about it. Look at reddit for almost any game and compare the number of members to the number of players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_
It’s the one percent rule and doesn’t make any statement on how many actually use forums, just how many participate.
More and more companies use forums or social media to connect to their consumer base, not less. It speaks to it’s importance, not it’s mediocrity.
But I still ran a Guild Wars 2 forum and I know the percentage of posters from first hand experience. Feel free to call me a liar if you want. And the amount of people posting, even with a large number of lurkers don’t add up to the number of people I suspect are playing the game.
But I’ve been through this conversation many times in many forums in the past. This isn’t the first time. I’m not usually the guy who finds and provides links because I’m lazy. I’m okay if you don’t want to believe me. Really. I’m fine with that.
It’s not about believing or disbelieving you. It’s about using made up statistics to back up an agenda. The same way that some would say " You don’t speak for everyone" “You are a very small minority, everyone is actually very happy” to refute someone who has an issue with something.
I have no clue how many individuals use forums or look at forums or watch the news, and I would wager neither do you. Anet knows how many use these forums, and it seems to be an important tool for them to connect with their player base. Downplaying this forum’s users and their importance does all of us a disservice.
Well someone I’m sure will find and post the Lotro dev interview about why they don’t do raids anymore. He was very clear about 2% of the gaming population raiding, compared to the number of people on the forums who talked about raiding. It’s the very thing we’re talking about here.
The forums don’t represent the majority of the playerbase at least at Lotro…which isn’t available on console. But it’s been like that in almost every game I’ve seen.
Ghostgrawler talked years about about how few people actually raided in WoW, but to read the forums you’d think everyone did.
Over the years many devs have made similar observations. Could I find any of those quotes now? No.
But yeah the 15% number was just a throwaway number. It wasn’t meant to be accurate. It was meant to say that gaming communities are seldom represented by forum posters in any way that is meaningful. This I truly believe and I truly believe most devs would probably agree.
Oh, really? Didn’t knew that. Well, then let’s see what we free updates got for our full box price in GW1 when compared to GW2:
GW1 Prophecies:
- Sorrow’s Furnace
- Tomb of the Primeval Kings revamp
- Helloween quests
- Wintersday quests
- constant balancing updates
GW2 (blatantly copied from the wiki):
- Mad King’s Labyrinth zone,
- Reaper’s Rumble and Lunatic Inquisition activities,
- Mad King’s Clock Tower jumping puzzle
- Ascent to Madness dungeon
….Yeah, now I see what you mean.
Serious question: Is there really someone here who bought the game back in Summer 2012 and honestly assumed that we would receive that amount of constant updates and support for the price of a single boxed copy?
~MRA
i would have prefered to pay for expansions if it had gw1 amount of content.
I would spend more in the gem store just to support anet if i liked the stuff coming out.i dont feel the vitriol that some people feel, but honestly, while i do think the dev teams have been working hard, and spent some big time on some things, it hasnt been that effective at making the game feel deeper or more expansive. Die hard gw1 anet fans i know that were at pax multiple years at all the anet events, dont even plan to go to the booth this year.
I cant say everyone is unsatisfied, i dont think everyone is. But even some people who really liked this game barely log on. I dont think the content that has been released is the content people really wanted to see. They basically wanted new game modes, more skills, new full maps, new stories (which they have done a bit of) new explorations, refined systems, expansions of systems.
You just got to step back and really look, and what they have put out doesnt renew the game experience. Thats ultimately what every MMO has to do to survive, as much as Qol stuff is nice, it doesnt make the game feel new and exciting.
Where is the new and exciting game patch? you guys are gamers, you remember staying up all night for that new content to hit, and explore and find and get all these new things thats what ya got to recapture in order to keep a lot of people engaged
You’re assuming no one was/is excited about Drytop, no one is excited about the living story. I’m pretty sure Anet has metrics that show otherwise.
People say it’s an hour’s worth of content, but I think people are farming a lot of that content.
So you’ve got a lot of groups here.
There are farmers, who might be trying for a kite and might be hanging out in Drytop because you know, a lot of tier 6 mats there. You’ve got crafters, there are some people who love that and collect every recipe and there are new recipes. There are new weapon skins for skin collectors, in game, not through a black lion trading post. There are kites which some people like because they like toys or even modest speed boosts.
There are people who like gambling and farm keys to open chests. There are people who enjoy story and achievements like me, and so that takes some time. Not everyone gets that stuff the first try or goes to Dulfy for hints either.
You’ve got older adventure game players who actually search for hidden coins. It’s not one small group of people all in Drytop for the same reason.
Some people just like jumping and it provides a lot of that too.
its cool, but it doesnt renew the game in the sense i have gotten with the expansions of GW1, FFXI, etc. Not to say it doesnt appeal to some, but the people saying they loved the game on release, and even in year one, who now say the game feels the same arent lying, or just crazy people who want an insane amount of stuff. They are people who are used to a certain level of new content withing 1-2 years that expands the strong points of the game.
LS is good for the type of stuff you get in between expansions, but it doesnt compare, for many people to the experience you get when the big content release hits in other games.
You’re right you know. It doesn’t renew the game the way an expansion does. But then, when I got expansions for games, in 2-3 months I’m done with them and I just sort of dog paddle until the next one comes out.
So I might get 2 months (if that) if intensive game play, and then I sort of flag. This way I’m more vested every couple of weeks. I prefer this to an expansion but I’m greedy and I’d rather have both.
I dont get the silence when a major competitor (blizz) is doing everything they can to show gamers what they DO have in the pipe so to speak to keep customers, is it because anet actually have nothing in the pot to show ?
There are two types of writers. Guys like Piers Anthony outline their work and they write it to that outline, hardly ever varying what they write. Guys like Stephen King don’t use outlines and evolve the story as they go.
Stephen King, before he finishes a book, doesn’t really always know where it’s going. I uses the equivalent of an iterative process. I understand it, because it’s the same process I use when I write. I don’t use an outline.
It takes longer and you have to backtrack more often, but that’s what works for me. I strongly suspect WoW is working from the equivalent of an outline, but Anet is, in many ways, breaking new ground. So they won’t always know what works and what doesn’t. So announcing stuff is more of a risk.
I think there was probably a point where a larger percentage of PC users read stuff online. Now, however, PCs are really mainstream. That’s why Guild Wars 2 isn’t really like the original Everquest. Far fewer people bought/played Everquest, because it was a game that required a specific mindset.
Now, computers have deep market penetration. So many people have them. A lot of older people playing games that aren’t even really all that computer literate.
And you know, maybe someone might one time click on the forum see a bunch of words and very few pictures and log off. There are people who love forums, but I’m sure we’re a vast minority of the playerbase.
Edit: Actually does anyone have the quote from the lotro dev recently about who posts on the forum and what percentage of the population they are? If someone could post it that would be cool.
Basically even though the entire forum seemed to center on raids, only 2% of the gaming population ever raided in Lotro, according to the devs, who said to look at the forums you’d think it was most players.
The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.
Source? Or did you make it up?
Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.
But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.
We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.
Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.
http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/
This is a good place to start.
Different types of gamers. Console vs. PC.
Yep, it is a different type of gamer. But over the years we’ve heard quotes from devs and stuff that blow our minds. LIke x percent of people have never been to a trait screen, and stuff like that.
The biggest percentage, yes, I don’t have an exact percentage, of gamers are really casual. THey go to work, they come home, they pop on the game in the way people used to drop down in front of TVs. Even most computer gamers.
The thing is, this is not one source that says X. This is gleaned from maybe ten, twelve years of following gaming in many interviews and having read many papers. There’s also the 80/20 rule which you can google. There’s all sorts of varations on it. 20% of the population makes almost all the posts. Everyone else is just a lurker. I know those stats are true from a forum I moderated where I got to see the stats.
The number of posts and probably even views on these forums wouldn’t come close to accounting for the size of the user base. Just stop and think about it. Look at reddit for almost any game and compare the number of members to the number of players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_
It’s the one percent rule and doesn’t make any statement on how many actually use forums, just how many participate.
More and more companies use forums or social media to connect to their consumer base, not less. It speaks to it’s importance, not it’s mediocrity.
But I still ran a Guild Wars 2 forum and I know the percentage of posters from first hand experience. Feel free to call me a liar if you want. And the amount of people posting, even with a large number of lurkers don’t add up to the number of people I suspect are playing the game.
But I’ve been through this conversation many times in many forums in the past. This isn’t the first time. I’m not usually the guy who finds and provides links because I’m lazy. I’m okay if you don’t want to believe me. Really. I’m fine with that.
Oh, really? Didn’t knew that. Well, then let’s see what we free updates got for our full box price in GW1 when compared to GW2:
GW1 Prophecies:
- Sorrow’s Furnace
- Tomb of the Primeval Kings revamp
- Helloween quests
- Wintersday quests
- constant balancing updates
GW2 (blatantly copied from the wiki):
- Mad King’s Labyrinth zone,
- Reaper’s Rumble and Lunatic Inquisition activities,
- Mad King’s Clock Tower jumping puzzle
- Ascent to Madness dungeon
….Yeah, now I see what you mean.
Serious question: Is there really someone here who bought the game back in Summer 2012 and honestly assumed that we would receive that amount of constant updates and support for the price of a single boxed copy?
~MRA
i would have prefered to pay for expansions if it had gw1 amount of content.
I would spend more in the gem store just to support anet if i liked the stuff coming out.i dont feel the vitriol that some people feel, but honestly, while i do think the dev teams have been working hard, and spent some big time on some things, it hasnt been that effective at making the game feel deeper or more expansive. Die hard gw1 anet fans i know that were at pax multiple years at all the anet events, dont even plan to go to the booth this year.
I cant say everyone is unsatisfied, i dont think everyone is. But even some people who really liked this game barely log on. I dont think the content that has been released is the content people really wanted to see. They basically wanted new game modes, more skills, new full maps, new stories (which they have done a bit of) new explorations, refined systems, expansions of systems.
You just got to step back and really look, and what they have put out doesnt renew the game experience. Thats ultimately what every MMO has to do to survive, as much as Qol stuff is nice, it doesnt make the game feel new and exciting.
Where is the new and exciting game patch? you guys are gamers, you remember staying up all night for that new content to hit, and explore and find and get all these new things thats what ya got to recapture in order to keep a lot of people engaged
You’re assuming no one was/is excited about Drytop, no one is excited about the living story. I’m pretty sure Anet has metrics that show otherwise.
People say it’s an hour’s worth of content, but I think people are farming a lot of that content.
So you’ve got a lot of groups here.
There are farmers, who might be trying for a kite and might be hanging out in Drytop because you know, a lot of tier 6 mats there. You’ve got crafters, there are some people who love that and collect every recipe and there are new recipes. There are new weapon skins for skin collectors, in game, not through a black lion trading post. There are kites which some people like because they like toys or even modest speed boosts.
There are people who like gambling and farm keys to open chests. There are people who enjoy story and achievements like me, and so that takes some time. Not everyone gets that stuff the first try or goes to Dulfy for hints either.
You’ve got older adventure game players who actually search for hidden coins. It’s not one small group of people all in Drytop for the same reason.
Some people just like jumping and it provides a lot of that too.
The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.
Source? Or did you make it up?
Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.
But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.
We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.
Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.
http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/
This is a good place to start.
Different types of gamers. Console vs. PC.
Yep, it is a different type of gamer. But over the years we’ve heard quotes from devs and stuff that blow our minds. LIke x percent of people have never been to a trait screen, and stuff like that.
The biggest percentage, yes, I don’t have an exact percentage, of gamers are really casual. THey go to work, they come home, they pop on the game in the way people used to drop down in front of TVs. Even most computer gamers.
The thing is, this is not one source that says X. This is gleaned from maybe ten, twelve years of following gaming in many interviews and having read many papers. There’s also the 80/20 rule which you can google. There’s all sorts of varations on it. 20% of the population makes almost all the posts. Everyone else is just a lurker. I know those stats are true from a forum I moderated where I got to see the stats.
The number of posts and probably even views on these forums wouldn’t come close to accounting for the size of the user base. Just stop and think about it. Look at reddit for almost any game and compare the number of members to the number of players.
The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.
Source? Or did you make it up?
Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.
But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.
We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.
Have you seen what happens on these forums if something that have been announced is ever changed even in the slightest way?
I’ve certainly never seen the entire front two pages be flooded with posts insinuating that ANet does nothing at all with their time. I’ve never seen a wholesale crash of player confidence. I’ve never seen anything warrant a flood of dev responses, a return of the CDI, and a bunch of game designer posts regarding high level company policy.
Flooded with posts made mostly by a handful of people. This isn’t hundreds of people posting that they’re fed up. It’s a dozen. Have you ever heard of the expression storm in a tea cup? Well this is one.
A few people complain that they want to know stuff. Most of the playerbase still doesn’t even know what the megaserver is most likely. They’re playing the game without thinking to much about the game.
For each person who says nothing is happening another says they like what is happening.
It’s a very loud small group of people, making it sound like the game is in some dire crisis. It’s not. The game is doing fine and will continue to do fine.
For the record, I’m not against Anet being more transparent about future plans. I’m for it.
But the problem is, how can they do that when it really can change. What if they’re working on something and they test it and it just doesn’t work or fit with a game, but they’ve already announced it?
See Anet is gambling that people would rather not get their hopes up for something if it’s not definitely coming.
I can see their side of it too.
While I can see that point also, I have to wonder. If it’s an extreme minority that is upset about lack of communication, then why the sudden interest in deflating that impression? I certainly wouldn’t get too excited, as a company, about a “very small, loud, group of people.”
Speaking only for myself, I’d rather see them abandon the existing policy and be more up front. What the policy says to me is, “We are concerned about what people say.”
Because the minority makes the forums look like everyone is saying the same thing. Reddit had a bad day too after the SAB interview, but you go to reddit now and it’s back to normal. People aren’t reacting there like people are reacting here.
But it’s not always the fact of something that causes issues but the impression. Every now and again, there’ll be some urban legend that goes around about rats in hamburgers at McDonalds or spiders, or whatever. And those companies know well that most people won’t believe it and won’t care, but they’ll still say something, because the people who do believe it will say it everywhere. They’ll get naive people to believe it and before you know it, people are talking a whole lot of nonsense about something that never happened.
The first place some people will go when they get a new game is to the forums. So it’s in Anet’s best interest to not have that be a totally negative experience. The combination of factors hitting at once, did a pretty good job curtailing the stuff being announced for the next feature patch.
So Anet goes into damage control mode, because they want the feature patch information to be the focus, not a few very loud people taking over the forums with complaints that are certainly legit for some people, but are overstated.
As long as those people keep ignoring what has been done, while using words like no content has come out, it’s in Anet best interest to make some sort of stand. I would in their shoes.
Scarlet’s events had nothing to do with the birthday, they had to do with the living story. At any rate, if there is some sort of patch or update, it won’t be till Tuesday. Remember the game didn’t officially launch until the 28th.
At the end of the day – the financial reports will speak for themselves.
You can keep telling me I’m off base on my assessment of the state of the game, and the feelings of the playerbase, but you aren’t convincing me.
I see (and feel) massive dissatisfaction with the game – and I am willing to bet that this is reflected in declining cash shop sales.
Anet isn’t going to prove either one of us right with any information, so ultimately, this argument can only be settled when and if the game declines.
If it’s just you’re massive dissatisfaction, it’s not from the playerbase. You keep deluding yourself that you know what’s best for the game and that it’s bound for utter failure that you keep spouting it out.
Why do some players suffer from " I hate it, therefore it sucks, and it will fail." Why can’t people just accept " I hate it, therefore this game may not be right for me…but…it may be right for others, since no matter how logically I try to prove to them, that they hate it also…they keep saying they like it"?
See that’s the thing. I’m not saying no one has a point. I’m saying the way they express the point is more detrimental to getting the game changed, than anything else they could say.
If there’s a problem with the game, and it’s not addressed politely, it’s just a waste of everyone’s time. Prophecies of doom, threats…totally worthless. All they do is detract from the argument.
This game has some flaws, there’s no question about it. It also has some good points. Pointing out the flaws while ignoring the good points isn’t honest and invites conflict. It’s the same by just saying the good points.
Posts that list both are far better than posts that are simply meant to antagonize.
Well I hope to get a list of content added since the release of the game, because I will be comparing it to Factions and Nightfall for GW1.
I have a better idea. Why not compare the game right now, as it is, to where Guild Wars 1 at this point in time. Guild Wars 2 actually has more content…even after Nightfall was released.
Yeah, and it took them seven years to make the game that way. I understand it has more content, but what has it added since then? GW1 added two new games, which included new stories, maps, lore, as well as two new professions in each game. I want a list of things comparable to that, which is gonna be hard, don’t you think? So far I got Dry Top and fractals, along with some boss revamps.
There’s a lot makes a direct comparison misleading though.
First, Guild Wars 1 was not an MMO and that changes the landscape quite a lot. A bigger game launching too early means more work to get it back to where it should have been at launch. Unfortunately this is the rule for MMOs today, not the exception. Everything launches too early, because companies need to recap some of the money they’ve invested. Remember, Guild Wars 1 was a much cheaper game to make.
When you’re making content in instances, balancing stuff is much easier. It doesn’t have to work with 1 person or 20. It’s a whole different ball game. They didn’t have to get rid of culling in Guild Wars 1, or even really streamline the game that much to make it more playable for people, because the total number of people in the explorable area was 12 and that was only in two elite instances…and the game still rubberbanded at times, making it very hard to play.
GW 1 was also pathed and there was no jumping. Anet could more easily control exactly where you were.
No these games are completely different. Adding stuff was a lot easier in Guild Wars 1. For example, Anet said you need at least three times the number of dynamic events than you’d need quests to make the game playable.
It’s a different game with different needs, made at a different time. And there’s still more content.
I know what you’re trying to convey, so i’ll rest a bit in this hole I dug. I just want to say that even though gw1 was a rather static game, I feel that the large, sudden introductions of content were more compelling than the “dynamic” events in gw2, which is a bit of a misnomer, IMO.
I think DEs didn’t actually do what Anet wanted them to do, hence the switch to the living story. DEs couldn’t be a centerpiece. They needed to be part of something larger. in that format they work much better (ie Dry Top, Escape from Lion’s Arch, etc.).
Well I hope to get a list of content added since the release of the game, because I will be comparing it to Factions and Nightfall for GW1.
I have a better idea. Why not compare the game right now, as it is, to where Guild Wars 1 at this point in time. Guild Wars 2 actually has more content…even after Nightfall was released.
Yeah, and it took them seven years to make the game that way. I understand it has more content, but what has it added since then? GW1 added two new games, which included new stories, maps, lore, as well as two new professions in each game. I want a list of things comparable to that, which is gonna be hard, don’t you think? So far I got Dry Top and fractals, along with some boss revamps.
There’s a lot makes a direct comparison misleading though.
First, Guild Wars 1 was not an MMO and that changes the landscape quite a lot. A bigger game launching too early means more work to get it back to where it should have been at launch. Unfortunately this is the rule for MMOs today, not the exception. Everything launches too early, because companies need to recap some of the money they’ve invested. Remember, Guild Wars 1 was a much cheaper game to make.
When you’re making content in instances, balancing stuff is much easier. It doesn’t have to work with 1 person or 20. It’s a whole different ball game. They didn’t have to get rid of culling in Guild Wars 1, or even really streamline the game that much to make it more playable for people, because the total number of people in the explorable area was 12 and that was only in two elite instances…and the game still rubberbanded at times, making it very hard to play.
GW 1 was also pathed and there was no jumping. Anet could more easily control exactly where you were.
No these games are completely different. Adding stuff was a lot easier in Guild Wars 1. For example, Anet said you need at least three times the number of dynamic events than you’d need quests to make the game playable.
It’s a different game with different needs, made at a different time. And there’s still more content.
Well I hope to get a list of content added since the release of the game, because I will be comparing it to Factions and Nightfall for GW1.
I have a better idea. Why not compare the game right now, as it is, to where Guild Wars 1 at this point in time. Guild Wars 2 actually has more content…even after Nightfall was released.
@Arrow
Farming is allowed, and encouraged. Abusing a bug (exploit) in order to farm is not.
As far as stuff to do? There is plenty to do. Tired of doing a 15 min dungeon run? Try doing the same run, but clearing every mob. Did you also know that some of the dungeons have hidden areas and secret bosses/encounters? Try to find them all!!
Working your way toward ascended or a legendary? Instead of farming gold through dungeons and buying what you need, try farming for ALL of it. Everything can be gotten in game, and at a decent pace, if you know where to go. Try to get the belchers bluff title. Or the yak slapper title. Why not try to solo a complete dungeon, every path, while using say Nomads gear or something?If Anet were to continually put out new “content” in the form that you are thinking, then any of the “old” content would quickly become irrelevant and dead.
“Farming is allowed, and encouraged.” LOL i laughed a little when I read that, name one farm that wasn’t an “Exploit” that was supposedly worth doing (Not counting frostgorge which was nerfed by the way). Every single farm has been nerfed to the ground half of the mobs don’t even drop loot anymore, they even nerfed dungeon farming!
EotM. Also dungeons are more profitable now by far than they were at launch.
OP’s TLDR – “You’re doing it wrong” “You don’t know what you’re doing” “I know better how to run your game”
Gotcha.
Yes, there are things wrong with the game. That’s a given. We all have things we’d like to see fixed/added/revamped. Pick your poison.
Telling the devs they are incompetent in so many words…. well, keep enforcing their decisions to not talk to us about anything worthwhile. Some people are doing a really good job of it today.
They’ve had two years of feedback and still haven’t delivered on key features that the community has asked for. I mean, speaking for the WvW community, we only just got account-bound WvW Exp in April and we’re finally getting account-bound Commander Tags (with the caveat of a price increase).
At some point, their inability to listen to the community and implement features and content that the community has repeatedly asked for can only be described as gross incompetence. I’ve seen threads where Mark drops in and says “the best thing you can do for us at this time is tell us what you want and keep communicating with the devs”, but in all honesty, what’s the point when you have a backlog of comments that is two years long and you simply don’t listen?
I understand that some people are 100% pleased with the direction that this game has gone and is currently going towards, but you need to understand that there’s also a group of people out there who feel severely disenfranchised and, to put it simply, mislead.
snort
“They don’t listen”
Bullkitten
Account bound wxp
Skin wardrobe
Trait hunting
Mini pets no long auto deposit
Certain world bosses revamped to be more than stand and spam fests
Added Molten and Aether to fractals
Account bound commander tags
Account bound legendaries
Account bound ascended (not perfect, but we did ask)
Replayable LS story
Increasingly better tutorial features for new players
Account bound dye
TP preview optionI could keep going if you’d like, but you’ll ignore it just like you’ve ignored it thus far.
If you don’t like the game, leave. It’s really that simple.
Of course now you’re going to label me a white knight, but you’d be dead wrong to do so and reading my post history will show that.
You don’t have to like all their decisions. It’s ok to not agree, and you’re well within your right to voice your option, so long as you’re not a kittening kitten about it.
You’re making it out like the devs have had their thumbs up their kitten for two years, and just looking though the patch notes proves otherwise. Stop trying to trivialize the work they have done.
Honestly, you and those like you need to be stuck in a customer service job, and then have someone come by every day and tell you that you’re a worthless piece of garbage and that your completely incompetent at what you do. See how you like having such sentiment shoved down your throat every day for two years. It’d only fair, because that’s what you’re doing to the devs.
Man, it took 2 years for THAT? Maybe in 5 years we’ll see another Elder Dragon then, or another playable race.
That was a list of features, not content. The content is a much longer list.
Account bound wxp
Skin wardrobe
Trait hunting
Mini pets no long auto deposit
Certain world bosses revamped to be more than stand and spam fests
Added Molten and Aether to fractals
Account bound commander tags
Account bound legendaries
Account bound ascended (not perfect, but we did ask)
Replayable LS story
Increasingly better tutorial features for new players
Account bound dye
TP preview optionI could keep going if you’d like, but you’ll ignore it just like you’ve ignored it thus far.
It’s funny that the majority of your list includes features that only just became available in April of this year and that essentially all of them aside from account-bound legendaries and ascended items were met with mixed results.
I’d love to hear what criticisms you have in regards to this game because so far, it looks like ANet could release just about anything and it would get your dopamine pathway going.
The majority of that list is new, because people mostly remember new stuff. They don’t really talk about the account wallet anymore. Or edge of the mists. Or the way they added the marketplace preview, or the way you didn’t have to go back to your bank anymore to craft. Or Guild missions. Or the way Kessex hills completely changed. Or new dyanmic events, the most visible of which was the skritt burglar.
In fact, none of you people are talking about the new creatures and new mechanics in the new zone Drytop.
I wonder why.
If all they have is Living Story, then I’m done for good.
You keep saying that. Hope you put your money where your mouth is. Your posts aren’t constructive at all. They’re doomsaying negativity that frankly no one needs. You’re not even helping your own cause.
Have you seen what happens on these forums if something that have been announced is ever changed even in the slightest way?
I’ve certainly never seen the entire front two pages be flooded with posts insinuating that ANet does nothing at all with their time. I’ve never seen a wholesale crash of player confidence. I’ve never seen anything warrant a flood of dev responses, a return of the CDI, and a bunch of game designer posts regarding high level company policy.
Flooded with posts made mostly by a handful of people. This isn’t hundreds of people posting that they’re fed up. It’s a dozen. Have you ever heard of the expression storm in a tea cup? Well this is one.
A few people complain that they want to know stuff. Most of the playerbase still doesn’t even know what the megaserver is most likely. They’re playing the game without thinking to much about the game.
For each person who says nothing is happening another says they like what is happening.
It’s a very loud small group of people, making it sound like the game is in some dire crisis. It’s not. The game is doing fine and will continue to do fine.
For the record, I’m not against Anet being more transparent about future plans. I’m for it.
But the problem is, how can they do that when it really can change. What if they’re working on something and they test it and it just doesn’t work or fit with a game, but they’ve already announced it?
See Anet is gambling that people would rather not get their hopes up for something if it’s not definitely coming.
I can see their side of it too.
There are still other words to use than exciting and excited.
Examples:
“We’ll be using the September 2014 Feature Pack to bring some engaging changes to the megaserver system!”
“We’re pleased to announce some updates to commander tags!”
“The September 2014 Feature Pack is on its way, and we’re extremely enthusiastic about the balance changes it will bring!”
“The September 2014 Feature Pack is bringing exclusive additions to PvP!”Note for the middle two, it’s THEIR opinion, so it’s fine for it to be exciting, however I changed them for the sake of this posts purpose.
The first and last ones are both more appropriate and not forcing an opinion onto the reader.
Just because something can be exciting doesn’t mean it will. If you’re excited, you can say that, but you shouldn’t say that “it’s an exciting thing that’s going to happen” just because you’re excited.
How is engaging less an opinion than exciting though.
From an editing stand point, you shouldn’t use the same word over and over again. From a marketing point of view, it’s exactly what you do.
All of what “we knew” were posted in blog posts earlier in the year. Sure, newer people joined since then, but wouldn’t the majority of players reading the blog posts now that have been playing since before the April Feature Pack have also read the blog posts then?
I suggest you interview people in game. Even if stuff was posted in the blog, most people will never even read it. The point is, you and I represent only a small portion of the playerbase. Those posts aren’t for people who delve deeper. They’re for everyone else.
Marketing needs a thesaurus. Plus they need to realize that as of late the player base has become somewhat sensitive to over promised, under delivered “features”.
Don’t poke the bears.
This, out of 7 descriptions we have:
“We’ll be using the September 2014 Feature Pack to bring some exciting changes to the megaserver system!”
“We’re excited to announce some updates to commander tags!”
“The September 2014 Feature Pack is on its way, and we’re extremely excited about the balance changes it will bring!”
“The September 2014 Feature Pack is bringing exciting additions to PvP!”
Most of these are things that players have known about for quite some time. It’s not exciting new things, it’s well-past the expiration date QoL changes that should have made it to the April Feature Pack.
You know all programming changes take time. They obviously couldn’t improve hte mega server, until they launched the mega server. Some things need to be fine tuned live.
Comments like should have been launched in the April feature pack are unrealistic at the very least.
I was being very broad in my post, which is why I used the word most.
Examples:
Account bound Commander tags/colors.
iWarden fix (this is IN the April patch notes but didn’t actually fix anything)
Illusionary Elasticity fix (see iWarden)
PvP-only RewardsAdditionally, for the rest of them, we knew about them beforehand. We knew Commander Tags were going to be getting new colors, we didn’t know they would become account bound.
We knew Megaservers would encapsulate all of the guilds into global guilds (didn’t know the name global guilds, but we sure as heck knew about the eventual merging of the upgrades).
We knew about these things, so they’re not that exciting to be talked about all over again.
Of course, exciting is an opinion, so I just feel like they shouldn’t be so careless with that word.
We knew. Listen to what you’re saying. We. Who is we? The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.
Yes, we are going to know stuff before most players. It doesn’t stop that stuff from being exciting to the huge percentage of players who don’t know what a CDI is.
You make it sound like the articles published on Anet’s site are just for us. I can’t imagine why you’d think that.
You don’t want to farm? Simple. Don’t.
Translation: Move on to a new game, don’t spend any money here.
Oh come on, really? So many people have already said farming is a choice and you continue to insist that it’s not. I choose not to farm. I don’t farm. I’m still playing this game.
Therefore your translation is in error.
If you’re playing, you’re farming, because there isn’t anything else to do in the game, except farm.
So if I RP that’s farming? If I play Southsun Survival because I enjoy it, that’s farming. If I’m doing jumping puzzles for the fun of doing them, that’s farming? Give me a break.
@Nevets Crimsonwing.5271
A pretty reasonable when talking to people who treat me reasonably. lol
First of all I enjoyed PvE in Guild Wars 1, but it was flawed in some ways because of heroes. Eventually heroes became so powerful, the builds were so good, I didn’t even need to be there most of the time for my heroes to succeed.
As for the speed of creation, well sure. It’s far far easier to design a zone in an instanced game, particularly a zone that’s pathed. Pathing means people get to see and do less. The zone looks as big, but the area you can travel in it is very small. Put a log on the path and you have to turn around. This was one of the big drawbacks of Guild Wars 1 for me, the inability to explore.
Now, making quests is a whole lot easier than making dynamic events. Let’s take a simple look. Here’s a list of the number of quests that were in each Guild Wars title. I’m taking this from the Guild Wars 1 wiki btw, under each game.
Prophecies – 205 quests
Factions – 200 plus quests
Nightfall – 250 plus quests
EotN -124 questsNow keep in mind that many of these quests included very fast beginners quests. Stuff like the bees in pre-searing ascalon.
The grand total of quests in all of Guild Wars 1 was about 800ish. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.
That’s a huge difference in just the initial release.
Before this game started, I actually played and finished all four Guild Wars 1 titles in a week (admittedly skipping part of Prophecies to do that). The point is, we remember this huge amount of content, but we’re looking at it from a very far distance away.
Add the missions together and you have 25 from Prophecies, 13 from Factions and 20 from Nightfall. There were no missions in EotN they were all considered quests. That means that all three games together had about as much content mission wise as maybe a single personal story, plus a bit. But there are many different personal story paths.
There were 16 dungeons in EotN and no dungeons prior to that, but if you want to count the elite areas, you can. There are still more dungeon paths in Guild Wars 2.
Yes the games were faster to make. Because you can balance everything against 8 people and be done with it. And the balance wasn’t good because it was mostly trivial anyway in the end. A couple of 600 monks could do everything.
It takes longer to make MMO content, longer to make dynamic events, longer to work on more ambitious projects. I’m not sure that should surprise anyone.
But also Guild Wars 2 launched way too early and the first year was playing catch up. The second year was launching China.
I suspect things will start to pick up now.
Thanks for the numbers game. Perhaps this is hindsight bias, but consider a few things:
-Dynamic events in this game can be pretty shallow too, granted there are more of them.
-FOW, UW and other elite areas were far more diverse than perhaps the sum of all dungeons in this game.
-Perhaps the biggest point, is that the longevity of the game was also due to diversity of skills, which allowed players to use their creative energy for years after the initial release. It was hinted that new weapons and new skills were incoming, so maybe the developers have been working on that in the background. This alone would breathe new life into the game.
I guess I just would like to go back to the Crystal Desert, the Ring of Fire, Cantha, Elona, etc. without having to wait 8 years. I hope you’re right that things start picking up. When they do, I’ll start playing again.
Cheers.
Do you know that the diversity of skills was both Guild Wars 1’s greatest strength and it’s biggest drawback. The reason it was never more than a niche game was because it was too complicated for most people. It’s sad to say, but it was true. It required thought process many don’t want to put in their game. They want to jump into the game and kill stuff.
Also the build diversity led to builds that were impossible to control. There’s nothing like permasin in Guild Wars 1.
Haha that’s true. I remember ursanway and the 55hp monks and all the other gimmicky builds. But the constant flux of balance and changing of skills also keep people iterating, which was fun. This game seemed to solve that problem by having weapon sets that are easier to balance skill wise (so you don’t have a whole bar of skills to choose from.) I’d like to see some more choices to this end, so that we can find a balance between too complex and too simple.
Yes, we need more skills and traits. But Guild Wars 1, particularly with dual classing was impossible to balance altogether.
@Nevets Crimsonwing.5271
A pretty reasonable when talking to people who treat me reasonably. lol
First of all I enjoyed PvE in Guild Wars 1, but it was flawed in some ways because of heroes. Eventually heroes became so powerful, the builds were so good, I didn’t even need to be there most of the time for my heroes to succeed.
As for the speed of creation, well sure. It’s far far easier to design a zone in an instanced game, particularly a zone that’s pathed. Pathing means people get to see and do less. The zone looks as big, but the area you can travel in it is very small. Put a log on the path and you have to turn around. This was one of the big drawbacks of Guild Wars 1 for me, the inability to explore.
Now, making quests is a whole lot easier than making dynamic events. Let’s take a simple look. Here’s a list of the number of quests that were in each Guild Wars title. I’m taking this from the Guild Wars 1 wiki btw, under each game.
Prophecies – 205 quests
Factions – 200 plus quests
Nightfall – 250 plus quests
EotN -124 questsNow keep in mind that many of these quests included very fast beginners quests. Stuff like the bees in pre-searing ascalon.
The grand total of quests in all of Guild Wars 1 was about 800ish. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.
That’s a huge difference in just the initial release.
Before this game started, I actually played and finished all four Guild Wars 1 titles in a week (admittedly skipping part of Prophecies to do that). The point is, we remember this huge amount of content, but we’re looking at it from a very far distance away.
Add the missions together and you have 25 from Prophecies, 13 from Factions and 20 from Nightfall. There were no missions in EotN they were all considered quests. That means that all three games together had about as much content mission wise as maybe a single personal story, plus a bit. But there are many different personal story paths.
There were 16 dungeons in EotN and no dungeons prior to that, but if you want to count the elite areas, you can. There are still more dungeon paths in Guild Wars 2.
Yes the games were faster to make. Because you can balance everything against 8 people and be done with it. And the balance wasn’t good because it was mostly trivial anyway in the end. A couple of 600 monks could do everything.
It takes longer to make MMO content, longer to make dynamic events, longer to work on more ambitious projects. I’m not sure that should surprise anyone.
But also Guild Wars 2 launched way too early and the first year was playing catch up. The second year was launching China.
I suspect things will start to pick up now.
Thanks for the numbers game. Perhaps this is hindsight bias, but consider a few things:
-Dynamic events in this game can be pretty shallow too, granted there are more of them.
-FOW, UW and other elite areas were far more diverse than perhaps the sum of all dungeons in this game.
-Perhaps the biggest point, is that the longevity of the game was also due to diversity of skills, which allowed players to use their creative energy for years after the initial release. It was hinted that new weapons and new skills were incoming, so maybe the developers have been working on that in the background. This alone would breathe new life into the game.
I guess I just would like to go back to the Crystal Desert, the Ring of Fire, Cantha, Elona, etc. without having to wait 8 years. I hope you’re right that things start picking up. When they do, I’ll start playing again.
Cheers.
Do you know that the diversity of skills was both Guild Wars 1’s greatest strength and it’s biggest drawback. The reason it was never more than a niche game was because it was too complicated for most people. It’s sad to say, but it was true. It required thought process many don’t want to put in their game. They want to jump into the game and kill stuff.
Also the build diversity led to builds that were impossible to control. There’s nothing like permasin in Guild Wars 1.
Most of the items you listed off that aren’t in this update are because they are content. This is not a content update, this is a feature pack. Content updates usually, but not exclusively, take the forum of living world updates or festivals.
And the items you listed in feature pack aren’t feature…. are fix or improvement to old feature and you know that… but hey gemstore is always open…
In a far far island there are kurt cobain , jimy endrix , scavenger precursor , ladder&league and new type of pvp , guild housing ecc….
You mean a commander tag that’s account bound and in colors isn’t a feature? Tricks aren’t a feature? A new specialization in WvW isn’t a feature. Because those look like features to me.
Of course Tournaments are also features.
What they aren’t really is content. That’s good since this is a feature patch.
It only shows that your statement appeal to a certain group of people, and it in no way shows that your statement appeals to everyone.
That’s the point.
Just as there are those that are 100% happy with the direction that ANet has gone with their development of GW2, there are others who feel like they’re not delivering on meaningful content.
I’ve never met anyone 100% happy with the direction Anet was gone. I just think that some people paint far too bleak a picture.
Marketing needs a thesaurus. Plus they need to realize that as of late the player base has become somewhat sensitive to over promised, under delivered “features”.
Don’t poke the bears.
This, out of 7 descriptions we have:
“We’ll be using the September 2014 Feature Pack to bring some exciting changes to the megaserver system!”
“We’re excited to announce some updates to commander tags!”
“The September 2014 Feature Pack is on its way, and we’re extremely excited about the balance changes it will bring!”
“The September 2014 Feature Pack is bringing exciting additions to PvP!”
Most of these are things that players have known about for quite some time. It’s not exciting new things, it’s well-past the expiration date QoL changes that should have made it to the April Feature Pack.
You know all programming changes take time. They obviously couldn’t improve hte mega server, until they launched the mega server. Some things need to be fine tuned live.
Comments like should have been launched in the April feature pack are unrealistic at the very least.
@Nevets Crimsonwing.5271
A pretty reasonable when talking to people who treat me reasonably. lol
First of all I enjoyed PvE in Guild Wars 1, but it was flawed in some ways because of heroes. Eventually heroes became so powerful, the builds were so good, I didn’t even need to be there most of the time for my heroes to succeed.
As for the speed of creation, well sure. It’s far far easier to design a zone in an instanced game, particularly a zone that’s pathed. Pathing means people get to see and do less. The zone looks as big, but the area you can travel in it is very small. Put a log on the path and you have to turn around. This was one of the big drawbacks of Guild Wars 1 for me, the inability to explore.
Now, making quests is a whole lot easier than making dynamic events. Let’s take a simple look. Here’s a list of the number of quests that were in each Guild Wars title. I’m taking this from the Guild Wars 1 wiki btw, under each game.
Prophecies – 205 quests
Factions – 200 plus quests
Nightfall – 250 plus quests
EotN -124 quests
Now keep in mind that many of these quests included very fast beginners quests. Stuff like the bees in pre-searing ascalon.
The grand total of quests in all of Guild Wars 1 was about 800ish. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.
That’s a huge difference in just the initial release.
Before this game started, I actually played and finished all four Guild Wars 1 titles in a week (admittedly skipping part of Prophecies to do that). The point is, we remember this huge amount of content, but we’re looking at it from a very far distance away.
Add the missions together and you have 25 from Prophecies, 13 from Factions and 20 from Nightfall. There were no missions in EotN they were all considered quests. That means that all three games together had about as much content mission wise as maybe a single personal story, plus a bit. But there are many different personal story paths.
There were 16 dungeons in EotN and no dungeons prior to that, but if you want to count the elite areas, you can. There are still more dungeon paths in Guild Wars 2.
Yes the games were faster to make. Because you can balance everything against 8 people and be done with it. And the balance wasn’t good because it was mostly trivial anyway in the end. A couple of 600 monks could do everything.
It takes longer to make MMO content, longer to make dynamic events, longer to work on more ambitious projects. I’m not sure that should surprise anyone.
But also Guild Wars 2 launched way too early and the first year was playing catch up. The second year was launching China.
I suspect things will start to pick up now.
The fact that dungeons chests still give nothing but crappy blues and greens and 1c is something I find funny and sad at the same time. Nothing has changed since launch.
Nothing has changed since launch except that dungeons now reward you at least 1 gold for each run, plus champion bags, neither of which happened at launch.
meh if its for account/first char birthday i gotta wait for about half a year, prolly wont even be playing by then. oh well, another time gated thing i guess.
I know how you feel. My birthday is time gated in real life too.
They couldn’t have released Guild Wars 1 without NCsoft. What’s your point. This game is already more successful than Guild Wars 1 was…the only question is how long that success will last.
And you know, Guild Wars 1 came out at a time with far less competition. It was the only free to play multiplayer fantasy game out there. There weren’t 50 free MMOs to choose from at the same time…and Guild Wars 2 is still making more money than Guild Wars 1 did.
So I’m not sure what your point is.
My point is that many people, myself included, trusted ArenaNet because they had established themselves in the market as being something different. GW1 was a CORPG that focused on interplayer cooperation and instanced content, and despite being a virtually unknown company before GW1 was released, they still managed to grab a nice market share and compete with WoW, especially with their innovative B2P model.
They established a wonderful, trusting relationship with a lot of consumers, and they made a name for themselves.
Thus, when GW2 came around the company had a strong foundation and a wider audience to whom they could advertise their game.
It’s a lot easier to profit when you aren’t starting from scratch.
Look, GW2 was different than the original, and that’s fine. It still was an incredible game at launch and in many ways improved from the original. For many people (note, I’m not speaking for everyone, I’m not speaking for you) the past two years saw larger and larger deviations not only from the original game, but from the GW2 manifesto as well.
With no expansion in sight, a focus on living story and simple QOL changes, the game feels like it’s moving at too slow a pace and is disappointing for many people (note, I’m not speaking for everyone, I’m not speaking for you.)
And you’re making a fair point.
This game was always going to have problems because Guild Wars 1 was almost a cult classic. It has a relatively small very die hard community, particularly the PvP community. Arguably, the PvP community would be the most disenfranchised with this game.
But Anet also saw in Guild Wars 1 a huge shift from PvP to PvE. Their PvE population eventually outnumbered the PvP population and so in the later years that’s where Anet put their effort.
I wasn’t a PvPer in Guild Wars 1. I do some PvP and WvW here, but mostly I’m a PvE’er. Not a dungeon runner. Someone who likes PvE in the open world. There are a bunch of us. No game has done it better as far as I’m concerned.
The fact that a relatively hard core group of players find a game that’s quite different to be unacceptable doesn’t surprise me at all. However, I still think Guild Wars 2 will ultimately be more successful, not less successful, even if some Guild Wars 1 players feel disenfranchised…I understand why they do, and I don’t blame them for feeling that way.
This game has made almost as much money in two years as Guild Wars 1 did in it’s first six.
Casinos make more money than Arcades too.
That’s true. Not relevant to my point though. People are suggesting this game isn’t doing well, or it’s not going to be doing well, but they have no evidence to back it up. It’s just that the game doesn’t appeal to them, so they assume it doesn’t appeal to anybody, or in fact, that it doesn’t appeal to enough people to support itself.
Since someone keeps bringing up Guild Wars 1, I’m pointing out that this game is more successful in a shorter time and might be as successful in the longer term. Of course the entire landscape of computer games has changed since Guild Wars 1 came out anyway. Comparisons about this are silly anyway.
2 years is a long time for an MMO not to release anything.
I think you are mistaken. We have released content and features in the last two years on a fairly regular basis. Just because the content and/or features were things that you personally did not particularly care for doesn’t mean we didn’t release anything.
Please don’t trivialize the efforts of our design and development staff down to “nothing” because you didn’t like it. It’s fine to comment that you didn’t care for what was released, but don’t pretend like we’ve done nothing here for the past two years.
Thank you so much for posting this. It’s 100% true.
Down the road means what, 5 years from now? 10 years from now?
I won’t be playing then.
The whole point is that we’ve already given Anet 2 years to release anything resembling expansion level content, and they haven’t.
2 years is a long time for an MMO not to release anything.
Especially today, when there are always new MMO’s just around the corner.
We’re already “down the road” right now – so where’s the new content?
You’re right. 2 years is a long time for an MMO not to release anything.
Fortunately, Guild Wars 2 has released stuff in that time.
… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.
[CITATION NEEDED]
snip
snip
How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.
Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.
I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.
There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.
We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.
Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.
A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.
You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?
It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.
What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.
I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.
You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.
Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.
Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.
At some point they must have done something right, no?
That point was nearly 10 years ago when they released GW1.
This game has made almost as much money in two years as Guild Wars 1 did in it’s first six.
Diablo 3 also broke records in box sales – and people hated it. The RMAH shut down after a protracted battle.
It’s no surprise at all that GW2 did so well at launch – the issue here is the roadmap, and the fact that we are 2 years in with no major content release.
Just low hanging fruit.
See, I’ve been playing this game for two years and I’ve seen many major content releases. It’s just not content you like. And that’s okay.
The thing is people did hate D3 at launch and it showed in reviews. The reviews of Guild Wars 2 were much better.
Now here we are too years later and you want more content, more content, more content. Well okay. Everyone wants more content.
But talking down the content we already has doesn’t help your argument. I don’t know about you but I’ve played some very enjoyable content. The Nightmare tower was great. The Marionette Fight. Loved it. Escape from Lion’s Arch was a hoot. I enjoyed the cliffs (less so the Queen’s Pavillion and the Gauntlet). I did enjoy SAB.
There’s be a lot of content. It’s just not all in game.
… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.
[CITATION NEEDED]
Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.
The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.
How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.
Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.
I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.
There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.
We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.
Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.
A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.
You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?
It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.
What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.
I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.
You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.
Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.
Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.
At some point they must have done something right, no?
That point was nearly 10 years ago when they released GW1.
This game has made almost as much money in two years as Guild Wars 1 did in it’s first six.
They couldn’t have released GW2 without GW1.
They couldn’t have released Guild Wars 1 without NCsoft. What’s your point. This game is already more successful than Guild Wars 1 was…the only question is how long that success will last.
And you know, Guild Wars 1 came out at a time with far less competition. It was the only free to play multiplayer fantasy game out there. There weren’t 50 free MMOs to choose from at the same time…and Guild Wars 2 is still making more money than Guild Wars 1 did.
So I’m not sure what your point is.
I just wish people would stop speaking for the entire player base. No one represents the entire player base. I don’t feel like this. I’m part of the player base. Therefor the OP is factually wrong. You can’t even speak for the majority of the player base and you shouldn’t try to.
It’s my belief that well over half the player base doesn’t follow the game outside the game, doesn’t look forward to specific stuff coming out and probably doesn’t know that Anet is “keeping them in the dark”. Only a small percentage of players ever visit the forums.
The rest of the people are just playing the game.
… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.
[CITATION NEEDED]
Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.
The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.
How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.
Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.
I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.
There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.
We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.
Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.
A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.
You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?
It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.
What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.
I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.
You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.
Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.
Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.
At some point they must have done something right, no?
That point was nearly 10 years ago when they released GW1.
This game has made almost as much money in two years as Guild Wars 1 did in it’s first six.
… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.
[CITATION NEEDED]
Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.
The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.
How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.
Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.
I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.
There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.
We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.
Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.
A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.
You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?
It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.
What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.
I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.
You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.
Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.
Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.
At some point they must have done something right, no?
We’ll see – in the end, the proof is in the pudding, as they say.
All I’m pointing out is what I’ve seen from experience.
MMO’s that ignore what their customers want usually tank – and Anet appears, to may of us, to be taking this same path.
This is all an attempt to avert that from happening.
I don’t think Guild Wars 2 is ignoring what their customers want. They may very well be ignoring what you specifically want and some people like you. But you know, there’s a whole lot of people out there who are looking for what this game offers.
I believe there are enough of us to keep the game going for a long long time.
You have zero evidence of this. Almost none.
There are less the a dozen strong voices complaining on the forums over and over. There are people who sort of agree and for each person who complains this way there’s another person who disagrees…and almost always more people complain than don’t complain.
Each time you post, it gets harder and harder to take what you say seriously, because you’re making statements you absolutely can’t back up.
Check out the WvW community and then you’ll have your evidence.
They didn’t, they promised a living world. In fact, I think they have said all along they don’t really want to add more races or classes, so if that comes along, it’s just a nicety.
I enjoy playing the game, which is why I’m posting here and why I’m interacting with the developers to provide input now that they are trying to reopen that dialogue. If you don’t enjoy playing the game anymore, maybe sit this one out and chime in on the next one so that we can actually develop a communication system rather than just a bunch of threads cluttering the boards with ranting on a soapbox. It makes the whole thing unreadable.
They’ve constantly teased that they still plan on releasing “expansion-level content” verbatim.
You’re just fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
They haven’t constantly teased anything. Constantly means like every week? Every month? Every six months? Colin made a statement about the amount of content and clarified the statement because the forums misunderstood it. I saw that clarification, did you? Or are you choosing to ignore it because you have a point you want to make?
I’m sorry did Anet advertise expansion level content 2 years ago? I was playing 2 years ago…like the day the game launched in headstart and I don’t remember seeing expansion level content advertised at launch.
You must have a bad memory then.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/09/18/guild-wars-2-to-get-consistent-free-updates-expansion/
Either I have a bad memory or you are simply interpreting a dev quote in the way you want to. Here is the quote:
“No need to buy them, Gw2 will feature consistent free content updates and in-game events going forward. Our goal is to make it so you get more from Gw2 for free than you get from a game you pay a subscription for. On top of a large amount of free bonus content, we will be expanding on offerings in the Black Lion Trading Company going forward, as well as be doing large-scale expansion content down the road.”
“We do appreciate that you’d like to buy lots of new content, but we’d prefer to give a lot of it to you for free, cause that’s what we think a responsible MMO company does!”
This is saying that down the road, we’ll over large scale expansion content. Down the road means at some future time. That’s all it means.
Now, also, the amount of stuff put into this game in two years…it’s a lot of content. It doesn’t look like as much because a lot of the great stuff…yes I said great stuff…from the living story season 1 is no longer in the game.
But the fact is, your opinion on what this means is just an opinion. A single paragraph in a magazine interview that isn’t saying what you say it’s saying.
We’ve gotten lots of content updates that you may not like. Which is fine. You don’t have to like it. But since at least some of us think we did get our money’s worth, and some of us are quite happy with the product (which does need work in some areas), I’d suggest you find a game that does it better and play it.
Because so far, all the games people predicted would kill this game haven’t even come close.
Most of the items you listed off that aren’t in this update are because they are content. This is not a content update, this is a feature pack. Content updates usually, but not exclusively, take the forum of living world updates or festivals.
You realize almost no one actually cares about that other stuff, right?
We want more content.
That’s the bottom line.
I’ll understand if you can’t deliver – but you should tell us now.
Stop giving us the runaround.
Either you can deliver more content (new maps, new dungeons, new class, new weapons, new playable race, new skills) or you cannot deliver more content.
We want an expansion, not necessarily more LS (not to say that LS should be abandoned – just that it does not substitute for the content we want).
So, that’s where we stand – either tell us more content is coming, or tell us it isn’t coming.
It’s a very simple question to answer.
Please do not act or speak like you’re speaking for the entirety of the player base. If that is your (and possibly your friends’) opinion, say so as well.
Actually, it’s obvious from the reaction of the player base.
Entire Guilds quitting, people leaving the game. Uproar on the forums.
The number of people who are happy with this game are in the minority.
You have zero evidence of this. Almost none.
There are less the a dozen strong voices complaining on the forums over and over. There are people who sort of agree and for each person who complains this way there’s another person who disagrees…and almost always more people complain than don’t complain.
Each time you post, it gets harder and harder to take what you say seriously, because you’re making statements you absolutely can’t back up.
Most of the items you listed off that aren’t in this update are because they are content. This is not a content update, this is a feature pack. Content updates usually, but not exclusively, take the forum of living world updates or festivals.
So when will the expansion-level content that ANet has advertised in the past come to fruition?
It’s been almost two years and we’re still waiting.
I’m sorry did Anet advertise expansion level content 2 years ago? I was playing 2 years ago…like the day the game launched in headstart and I don’t remember seeing expansion level content advertised at launch.
Most of the items you listed off that aren’t in this update are because they are content. This is not a content update, this is a feature pack. Content updates usually, but not exclusively, take the forum of living world updates or festivals.
You realize almost no one actually cares about that other stuff, right?
We want more content.
That’s the bottom line.
I’ll understand if you can’t deliver – but you should tell us now.
Stop giving us the runaround.
Either you can deliver more content (new maps, new dungeons, new class, new weapons, new playable race, new skills) or you cannot deliver more content.
We want an expansion, not necessarily more LS (not to say that LS should be abandoned – just that it does not substitute for the content we want).
So, that’s where we stand – either tell us more content is coming, or tell us it isn’t coming.
It’s a very simple question to answer.
Every single time you use words like “almost no one cares” I’ll call you on it, because from what I’ve seen so far, you simply don’t know. A lot of people do care. You don’t and that’s fine.
Try talking for yourself and not everyone. Because it immediately calls everything else you say into question.
… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.
[CITATION NEEDED]
Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.
The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.
How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.
Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.
I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.
There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.
We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.
Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.
A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.
You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?
It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.
What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.
I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.
You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.
Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.
Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.
At some point they must have done something right, no?